Salt Free Water Softener versus Salt Based Systems

[LoveTheBogle]

Does anyone know the science, engineering or have experience with a salt free water softener system? My plumber said that it will help with water pressure for demand in far away rooms.

I'm in the midst of building a home and the plumber is recommending a whole home water filtration system and salt free softener combo kit such as a system from Kind Water Systems.

The Kind Water Systems website seems very consumer and sales oriented rather than professional plumber oriented so I'm a bit skeptical that it will actually soften the water. Where the home is being built the water is extremely hard. In all of my homes I've always installed a salt based water softener system but the plumber said that it will likely reduce water pressure in the master bathroom due to the distance the master bathroom is from the mechanical/plumbing closet in the garage. It is literally the furthest room from the garage and hence he is recommending the Kind system that doesn't use salt.

Soft water is extremely important, significantly more important than having filtered water in every faucet. Any information, experiences or hunches is greatly appreciated to get soft water in the master bathroom which is 100 ft or so away from the garage where the mechanical equipment is located.

[sailaway]

We had a salt free system many, many years ago.

I react to something that stays in the water with the salt systems and installing this system was life changing for me and my skin.

Have you looked for reviews on the particular system you are interested in?

[bd7]

What type of plumbing are you having installed? Minimizing pressure drops just requires larger pipes for a given distance. You factor in the drop across the water softener resin tank.

[LoveTheBogle]

Have you looked for reviews on the particular system you are interested in?

Starting the research phase now hence the reason for this thread. Would love to hear from others about experiences. What system did you end up with and do you recall what caused your presumably skin reaction to salt based systems?

[sailaway]

Have you looked for reviews on the particular system you are interested in?

Starting the research phase now hence the reason for this thread. Would love to hear from others about experiences. What system did you end up with and do you recall what caused your presumably skin reaction to salt based systems?

I was a teenager, so I don't recall the details, but I believe it was Culligan.

As far as I know, the only theory out there is that soft water rinses so much better that it removes a natural barrier on your skin, leaving sensitive skin overly sensitive. If there is any truth to that, it may suggest that no salt softeners just don't soften as well. It might explain why even naturally soft water can be an issue for me.

However, I wonder if the phosphate additives were once more common than they are now: that is a better explanation for why switching systems would have affected me. Looking at the Kind site, I bet that third "no salt" cartridge is a phosphorus descaler. That would be a hard pass from me for both environmental and personal reasons. You weren't kidding when you said that site seems sketchy: why isn't there more info on the third cartridge? It might be polymer based, like Culligan, but why don't they tell you?

[NateH]

Does anyone know the science, engineering or have experience with a salt free water softener system? My plumber said that it will help with water pressure for demand in far away rooms.

I'm in the midst of building a home and the plumber is recommending a whole home water filtration system and salt free softener combo kit such as a system from Kind Water Systems.

The Kind Water Systems website seems very consumer and sales oriented rather than professional plumber oriented so I'm a bit skeptical that it will actually soften the water. Where the home is being built the water is extremely hard. In all of my homes I've always installed a salt based water softener system but the plumber said that it will likely reduce water pressure in the master bathroom due to the distance the master bathroom is from the mechanical/plumbing closet in the garage. It is literally the furthest room from the garage and hence he is recommending the Kind system that doesn't use salt.

Soft water is extremely important, significantly more important than having filtered water in every faucet. Any information, experiences or hunches is greatly appreciated to get soft water in the master bathroom which is 100 ft or so away from the garage where the mechanical equipment is located.

Engineer here. Worked in the water softener biz many years ago. I would be highly skeptical of any salt-free "proprietary" water softening claims, but particularly a system that is 4X the cost of a standard softener.

You can always ask for any certifications the system has. Generally, you can't fool UL, WQA, NSF, etc.

No clue how your plumber thinks this system would help with water pressure anywhere in the house. It should be his job to pipe the house so that pressure drop isn't an issue.

[Mattman25]

Does anyone know the science, engineering or have experience with a salt free water softener system? My plumber said that it will help with water pressure for demand in far away rooms.

I'm in the midst of building a home and the plumber is recommending a whole home water filtration system and salt free softener combo kit such as a system from Kind Water Systems.

The Kind Water Systems website seems very consumer and sales oriented rather than professional plumber oriented so I'm a bit skeptical that it will actually soften the water. Where the home is being built the water is extremely hard. In all of my homes I've always installed a salt based water softener system but the plumber said that it will likely reduce water pressure in the master bathroom due to the distance the master bathroom is from the mechanical/plumbing closet in the garage. It is literally the furthest room from the garage and hence he is recommending the Kind system that doesn't use salt.

Soft water is extremely important, significantly more important than having filtered water in every faucet. Any information, experiences or hunches is greatly appreciated to get soft water in the master bathroom which is 100 ft or so away from the garage where the mechanical equipment is located.

Engineer here. Worked in the water softener biz many years ago. I would be highly skeptical of any salt-free "proprietary" water softening claims, but particularly a system that is 4X the cost of a standard softener.

You can always ask for any certifications the system has. Generally, you can't fool UL, WQA, NSF, etc.

No clue how your plumber thinks this system would help with water pressure anywhere in the house. It should be his job to pipe the house so that pressure drop isn't an issue.

+1, this is a new build right? Design the system right from the beginning. This sounds like a kick back for the plumber.

[bbqguru]

Agree with the others, that the plumber needs to make sure pipes are adequately sized.

We live in an area with extremely hard water. When we built our house, we did a descaler system similar to what you linked, instead of a softener because I wasn’t a fan of softened water. It lasted about 3 months before I threw in the towel and put a traditional softener in. We use potassium instead of salt though for the softener. Costs more, but we prefer it over the salt version.

The non salt softener system didn’t keep the buildup from forming on faucets and it felt more smoke and mirrors than anything else.

[LoveTheBogle]

Agree with the others, that the plumber needs to make sure pipes are adequately sized.

We live in an area with extremely hard water. When we built our house, we did a descaler system similar to what you linked, instead of a softener because I wasn’t a fan of softened water. It lasted about 3 months before I threw in the towel and put a traditional softener in. We use potassium instead of salt though for the softener. Costs more, but we prefer it over the salt version.

The non salt softener system didn’t keep the buildup from forming on faucets and it felt more smoke and mirrors than anything else.

Can you expound as to the reasoning of potassium over salt? Was the equipment also different?

[rkhusky]

They are both salt. One is potassium chloride and the other is sodium chloride.

[bertilak]

Agree with the others, that the plumber needs to make sure pipes are adequately sized.

We live in an area with extremely hard water. When we built our house, we did a descaler system similar to what you linked, instead of a softener because I wasn’t a fan of softened water. It lasted about 3 months before I threw in the towel and put a traditional softener in. We use potassium instead of salt though for the softener. Costs more, but we prefer it over the salt version.

The non salt softener system didn’t keep the buildup from forming on faucets and it felt more smoke and mirrors than anything else.

Can you expound as to the reasoning of potassium over salt? Was the equipment also different?

My Culligan softener has a setting, KCl vs NaCl, so I'm guessing there is no hardware difference.

[meebers]

I get a lot of good info from these guys @ https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php? ... nswers.22/

[bbqguru]

Agree with the others, that the plumber needs to make sure pipes are adequately sized.

We live in an area with extremely hard water. When we built our house, we did a descaler system similar to what you linked, instead of a softener because I wasn’t a fan of softened water. It lasted about 3 months before I threw in the towel and put a traditional softener in. We use potassium instead of salt though for the softener. Costs more, but we prefer it over the salt version.

The non salt softener system didn’t keep the buildup from forming on faucets and it felt more smoke and mirrors than anything else.

Can you expound as to the reasoning of potassium over salt? Was the equipment also different?

Same equipment, there's just a setting on the softener to tell it what you're using. That said, our new softener doesn't have a setting to tell it what we're using.

Went with potassium for a variety of reasons. Main reason was DW gets kidney stones and urologist told us to use potassium to keep the salt down. I've read conflicting journal articles on if this is a valid issue, but figure it's cheap insurance regardless.... Keeps DW from killing the plants if she doesn't use unsoftened water (softened water with salt will eventually add a buildup of salt to the soil), and so on.

Biggest thing we did to help with the operation of the unit is to buy a hard water testing kit. We check it every year or so and adjust the settings on the softener. Made a huge difference in the frequency we go through potassium, the performance of the softener, and overall how it works.

On a side note, we sell, install and service tankless water heaters. I can tell a difference in the performance and frequency of cleaning the units between the descaling vs softener systems. The constant flushing and working on my personal water heater and hearing DW nagging is what caused me to ditch the descaling system so quick after we installed it. Remodeled a house and installed two tankless heaters, put a softener in without even hesitating.

[bberris]

Our kitchen cold water bypasses the water softener, so no one drinks softened water. If you don't have the plumbing set up this way, it might be cheaper to go bottled water for drinking.

[rkhusky]

Our kitchen cold water bypasses the water softener, so no one drinks softened water. If you don't have the plumbing set up this way, it might be cheaper to go bottled water for drinking.

Or reverse osmosis for the drinking water.

[smitcat]

Check your local area - salt based water softeners are not allowed in many areas and the list is growing.

[LoveTheBogle]

Check your local area - salt based water softeners are not allowed in many areas and the list is growing.

What are people using in lieu of traditional salt based water softener systems? Is it as effective?

[smitcat]

Check your local area - salt based water softeners are not allowed in many areas and the list is growing.

What are people using in lieu of traditional salt based water softener systems? Is it as effective?

We do not have any of these systems - I learned about the salt systems being illegal to install from a friend who moved to a new area.
I hear there are a number of choices other than salt systems which can overwhelm the local area drainage but never researched any myself.

[rockstar]

There is an alternative to salt you can potentially put into salt units. But costs 4x as much. Potassium Chloride.

[Chuckles960]

Does anyone know the science, engineering or have experience with a salt free water softener system? My plumber said that it will help with water pressure for demand in far away rooms.

There is no such thing as soft water without using a salt (potassium chloride or or sodium chloride, both are salts) to refresh the ion exchange resin. If you are going to fall for this, you might as well go all the way and waste your money on a magnetic water "softener".

The less dishonest sellers call these devices "salt free water conditioners", because they supposedly cause templated nucleation of calcium carbonate that then breaks off as microcrystals and forms an aqueous suspension. These microcrystals supposedly do not stick to pipes. That is dubious also, but anyway, they do not claim to soften the water.

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/blogs ... -softeners