Help Annette Keep Working and Not Retire

[AnnetteLouisan]

I guess a lot of this is individual. If someone put off fun until retirement and had a ton of responsibilities (to kids, spouse, other relatives and a very stressful job), a harsh commute, and maybe not much longevity in the family, then by all means why not try to make as much as possible and quit as soon as you can!?? Someone who doesn’t just seems unimaginative.

But I front end loaded fun in my life, never had many responsibilities other than career, have a job I like that actually is the best part of my life right now because it provides intellectual challenge, meaning, structure, identity, opportunities to learn and help others, engagement, social context and… money and benefits. Without all that I face a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching isolation.

Enjoy it, working two days per week sounds wonderful but that’s a rare deal.

My goal for my money is for me to survive, housed, fed and clothed, independently for what I hope will be a long life like most of my relatives had, despite whatever turmoil the next three or four decades bring.

Very individual. I can tell you I did not put off fun early in life although I was pretty broke trying to have fun. Then I got my education and did my career thing. I climbed up the ladder very quickly and could have kept going if I so desired, but by then I have enough to be comfortable and happy. Keep in mind I don't have a pension so the portfolio has to cover it all till social security at 70 which is a long way away.

It is great you enjoy your work. I will admit that I do as well, but there are other things I happen to enjoy more which is why I still work though part time. Best of both worlds I guess.

AnnetteLousan, correct me if I'm wrong, but wont your pension and your social security cover all of your needs and all of your wants at some point in your life? If so then how could you possibly go broke once you start collecting?

No the pension is small since I switched jobs a few times and had jobs with no pension earlier on. SS - if it isn’t changed - may be more but I plan to defer until 70 as a longevity hedge. If I retire today I’m looking at a gross income of around 25k plus a SWR. I gave a very tiny IRA, and a smaller than typical 401k because I started late.

Ahh, makes a lot more sense to me. I think a few more years will make a big difference in your numbers since you have yet to hit the top of the second bend point in your SS. You are fortunate to have a job that gives you so much back plus pays well.

I'm sure you understand that having such a high percent of your savings in bonds, CDs, money market funds, and savings accounts adds to your need to work longer. Which isn't a horrible thing. Not stressing over your investments does have value. Although as you say equities are frothy, I am very confident that over the next few decades they will outperform all those so called safe investments very handsomely.

We are lucky today to find money market funds paying above inflation. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I am also confident it wont last for decades.

Anyways, I have enjoyed this interchange.

What is the “top of the second bend point in my SS?”

[roamingzebra]

My perception is that a married person with a non working spouse and kids has human resources. Those folks can help out with myriad tasks or get jobs in a pinch, or both. If I want someone to make me a sandwich because I’m sick and sit by my bed holding my hand, or drive me to my medical appointments, I literally have to pay them. A lot. That’s not a good way to go into what will hopefully be my late 50s, 60s and 70s.

Just a tiny little thing some may not be aware of... but some Medicare Advantage plans offer transportation services. They can take you from your front door, bed or wherever to your appointment and back. I don't think they offer sandwiches though.

[pizzy]

I guess a lot of this is individual. If someone put off fun until retirement and had a ton of responsibilities (to kids, spouse, other relatives and a very stressful job), a harsh commute, and maybe not much longevity in the family, then by all means why not try to make as much as possible and quit as soon as you can!?? Someone who doesn’t just seems unimaginative.

But I front end loaded fun in my life, never had many responsibilities other than career, have a job I like that actually is the best part of my life right now because it provides intellectual challenge, meaning, structure, identity, opportunities to learn and help others, engagement, social context and… money and benefits. Without all that I face a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching isolation.

Enjoy it, working two days per week sounds wonderful but that’s a rare deal.

My goal for my money is for me to survive, housed, fed and clothed, independently for what I hope will be a long life like most of my relatives had, despite whatever turmoil the next three or four decades bring.

Very individual. I can tell you I did not put off fun early in life although I was pretty broke trying to have fun. Then I got my education and did my career thing. I climbed up the ladder very quickly and could have kept going if I so desired, but by then I have enough to be comfortable and happy. Keep in mind I don't have a pension so the portfolio has to cover it all till social security at 70 which is a long way away.

It is great you enjoy your work. I will admit that I do as well, but there are other things I happen to enjoy more which is why I still work though part time. Best of both worlds I guess.

AnnetteLousan, correct me if I'm wrong, but wont your pension and your social security cover all of your needs and all of your wants at some point in your life? If so then how could you possibly go broke once you start collecting?

No the pension is small since I switched jobs a few times and had jobs with no pension earlier on. SS - if it isn’t changed - may be more but I plan to defer until 70 as a longevity hedge. If I retire today I’m looking at a gross income of around 25k plus a SWR. I gave a very tiny IRA, and a smaller than typical 401k because I started late.

Ahh, makes a lot more sense to me. I think a few more years will make a big difference in your numbers since you have yet to hit the top of the second bend point in your SS. You are fortunate to have a job that gives you so much back plus pays well.

I'm sure you understand that having such a high percent of your savings in bonds, CDs, money market funds, and savings accounts adds to your need to work longer. Which isn't a horrible thing. Not stressing over your investments does have value. Although as you say equities are frothy, I am very confident that over the next few decades they will outperform all those so called safe investments very handsomely.

We are lucky today to find money market funds paying above inflation. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I am also confident it wont last for decades.

Anyways, I have enjoyed this interchange.

What is the “top of the second bend point in my SS?”

Read here: https://thefinancebuff.com/early-retire ... efits.html

[Wannaretireearly]

Great posts all around on this page.

On topic, Annette, have you thought about setting a retirement date or even year?

Yes, maybe 12/31/25 or 6/1/26.

Very good. A couple of years will fly by. Setting a date seems to have huge psychological benefit for me. Project out where your finances will be then. Likely fine. Focus on the post retirement activities to keep you from boredom. Harder to answer that after a long career, unless you’ve cultivated hobbies along the way (I haven’t…)

[AnnetteLouisan]

Very individual. I can tell you I did not put off fun early in life although I was pretty broke trying to have fun. Then I got my education and did my career thing. I climbed up the ladder very quickly and could have kept going if I so desired, but by then I have enough to be comfortable and happy. Keep in mind I don't have a pension so the portfolio has to cover it all till social security at 70 which is a long way away.

It is great you enjoy your work. I will admit that I do as well, but there are other things I happen to enjoy more which is why I still work though part time. Best of both worlds I guess.

AnnetteLousan, correct me if I'm wrong, but wont your pension and your social security cover all of your needs and all of your wants at some point in your life? If so then how could you possibly go broke once you start collecting?

No the pension is small since I switched jobs a few times and had jobs with no pension earlier on. SS - if it isn’t changed - may be more but I plan to defer until 70 as a longevity hedge. If I retire today I’m looking at a gross income of around 25k plus a SWR. I gave a very tiny IRA, and a smaller than typical 401k because I started late.

Ahh, makes a lot more sense to me. I think a few more years will make a big difference in your numbers since you have yet to hit the top of the second bend point in your SS. You are fortunate to have a job that gives you so much back plus pays well.

I'm sure you understand that having such a high percent of your savings in bonds, CDs, money market funds, and savings accounts adds to your need to work longer. Which isn't a horrible thing. Not stressing over your investments does have value. Although as you say equities are frothy, I am very confident that over the next few decades they will outperform all those so called safe investments very handsomely.

We are lucky today to find money market funds paying above inflation. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I am also confident it wont last for decades.

Anyways, I have enjoyed this interchange.

What is the “top of the second bend point in my SS?”

Read here: https://thefinancebuff.com/early-retire ... efits.html

I see, thanks. The point after which working longer doesn’t get you much higher SS benefit.

[Call_Me_Op]

I'm curious how many Bogleheads have had health problems throw a monkey wrench into their retirement plans versus running out of money problems.
It seems like the baseline assumption here is that everyone is going to have a very long retirement and (despite conservative withdrawal assumptions and other sources of income) everyone needs a ginormous pile of money which often requires working longer.

Running short of money is not a given, especially for this crowd. Every year of additional work will likely result in one less year of retirement and one less year of active healthy retirement. While some people might go off the rails in retirement in terms of lifestyle factors i know of so many that get their act together in retirement given the gift of time to exercise, eat well and engage in activities that promote physical, mental and emotional well-being. The exception are those individuals whose identities and well-being are defined by their employment.

Raises hand…

There’s a thread going on right now about just this topic. The bottom line is that unless we have a known life shortening medical condition, and sometimes even if we do, we have to plan as though we’re going to live a long life. Because the consequences of outliving your savings are greater than the consequences of dying before you’ve spent it all.

Personally, I retired at 53, with enough money, although less than Annette has now, in part because I had a couple of work colleagues who had life changing illnesses in their mid-50’s, and I didn’t want that for myself. I enjoyed the first six years of retirement very much, then got a life threatening illness that I’ve been dealing with for the past year. I may still recover and live a long healthy life, and still have to have a financial plan for that possibility, but it isn’t the given it once was. I don’t regret retiring when I did for a second, even if I did leave seven figures on the table by doing it.

And yeah. My retired life, even with cancer, is not about boredom, lassitude, penny pinching, and isolation. My experience is that people who are physically and mentally active and engaged before retirement are still physically and mentally active and engaged after retirement. They just spend their time differently.

Q&H,

Thanks for sharing your story. Best wishes for a full recovery.

[torso2500]

But I . . . have a job I like that actually is the best part of my life right now because it provides intellectual challenge, meaning, structure, identity, opportunities to learn and help others, engagement, social context and… money and benefits. Without all that I face a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation.

If your job is the best part of your life, what is the purpose of this entire thread, which begins “help Annette keep working”?

I have to agree, and this is not the first AL post where subsequent responses run interference on the question originally asked. It's ultimately one's own opportunity to be in tune with their wants, regardless of any reasonable arguments otherwise. I'm not sure why someone asks something that implies they intend something they clearly don't want. Is it a technique to spark conversation or debate?

Would be interested in a thread that explores what some models of the next 20 years look like assuming the portfolio doesn't keep up with inflation

[AnnetteLouisan]

But I . . . have a job I like that actually is the best part of my life right now because it provides intellectual challenge, meaning, structure, identity, opportunities to learn and help others, engagement, social context and… money and benefits. Without all that I face a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation.

If your job is the best part of your life, what is the purpose of this entire thread, which begins “help Annette keep working”?

I have to agree, and this is not the first AL post where subsequent responses run interference on the question originally asked. It's ultimately one's own opportunity to be in tune with their wants, regardless of any reasonable arguments otherwise. I'm not sure why someone asks something that implies they intend something they clearly don't want. Is it a technique to spark conversation or debate?

Would be interested in a thread that explores what some models of the next 20 years look like assuming the portfolio doesn't keep up with inflation

I would too. Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer, and have around $2.5M net worth. Move to a MCOLA. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint. If there’s no war here. I’ll rent rather than buy again. I’ll take my pension when I retire and defer SS to 70 unless I fall ill before then. I know how to live on very little so I’m pretty adaptable. But I’m interested in a wake up call and some descriptions of pitfalls / bad scenarios.

[GAAP]

Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint.

Since you seem to like what you do, is there any potential for charitable work in your field? That could keep you mentally engaged, and work in concert with your hobbies. It would also leave open the possibility of a return to work if you felt it necessary.

[AnnetteLouisan]

Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint.

Since you seem to like what you do, is there any potential for charitable work in your field? That could keep you mentally engaged, and work in concert with your hobbies. It would also leave open the possibility of a return to work if you felt it necessary.

I could teach or something. Or write. I was invited once to be considered for a charitable board. I guess I could do private tutoring for law students. I’m actually taking a class currently on preparing for life in retirement. We were asked to think of the aspects of work where we are most engrossed and engaged and think of fields that include those aspects.

But if I’m going to work anyway, why not keep the lawyer salary? I’ve never worked a low paying job (except when I was just starting out before I started work as a lawyer) and I don’t want to steal a spot from someone who has fewer options.

[quantAndHold]

I would too. Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer, and have around $2.5M net worth. Move to a MCOLA. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint. If there’s no war here. I’ll rent rather than buy again. I’ll take my pension when I retire and defer SS to 70 unless I fall ill before then. I know how to live on very little so I’m pretty adaptable. But I’m interested in a wake up call and some descriptions of pitfalls / bad scenarios.

My only comment on the plan, which sounds lovely, btw, is that you already have a lot of inflation risk in your portfolio. By renting instead of owning, you’re adding more of the same risk via your housing situation.

[blueberrypi]

What is the "normal" retirement age for someone in your field?
Why would it not be practical to retire at 65?
It seems that you both enjoy your work and appreciate the income. Good luck to you whatever you decide, and keep us posted!

[AnnetteLouisan]

What is the "normal" retirement age for someone in your field?
Why would it not be practical to retire at 65?
It seems that you both enjoy your work and appreciate the income. Good luck to you whatever you decide, and keep us posted!

62-65 is pretty common. I could do that. I’ve just always thought I’d be too tired at that point and didn’t want to push matters. 65 seems too late. 59-62 seems ok.

Thanks for the well wishes!

[FeralCat]

I'm curious how many Bogleheads have had health problems throw a monkey wrench into their retirement plans versus running out of money problems.
It seems like the baseline assumption here is that everyone is going to have a very long retirement and (despite conservative withdrawal assumptions and other sources of income) everyone needs a ginormous pile of money which often requires working longer.

Running short of money is not a given, especially for this crowd. Every year of additional work will likely result in one less year of retirement and one less year of active healthy retirement. While some people might go off the rails in retirement in terms of lifestyle factors i know of so many that get their act together in retirement given the gift of time to exercise, eat well and engage in activities that promote physical, mental and emotional well-being. The exception are those individuals whose identities and well-being are defined by their employment.

If one is intentional with their time, there is plenty of time to exercise, eat well and engage in activities that promote well-being while also working full-time. I hear about the exercise one a lot, but really how many hours a day are people exercising in retirement?

[LadyGeek]

I hear about the exercise one a lot, but really how many hours a day are people exercising in retirement?

You can discuss it here: Exercise planning for first year of retirement

[LadyGeek]

I moved bltn's post and a reply to the ongoing discussion: Re: Exercise planning for first year of retirement

Comments on exercising should continue in that thread.

[torso2500]

I would too. Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer, and have around $2.5M net worth. Move to a MCOLA. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint. If there’s no war here. I’ll rent rather than buy again. I’ll take my pension when I retire and defer SS to 70 unless I fall ill before then. I know how to live on very little so I’m pretty adaptable. But I’m interested in a wake up call and some descriptions of pitfalls / bad scenarios.

What is the wake up call you're interested in? You seem perfectly comfortable with your current AA, you clearly want to keep working, and you are happy to keep spending low. So maybe you ask questions that get at contradicting this to get someone to persuade you otherwise, but time and time again I see you defend the above vociferously. That leads me to think...you are where you want to be and there's nothing from which to wake up? I would say just proceed with acceptance, with the expectation that inflation won't be fought. Personally I wonder the motivation behind soliciting (in my view) reasonable critiques of conservative AA, working longer, etc then immediately defending with somewhat myopic characterizations like retirement being "a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation". Maybe this is not your intent but I leave reading such defenses with a negative feeling of certain value judgements coming off of them.

[AnnetteLouisan]

I would too. Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer, and have around $2.5M net worth. Move to a MCOLA. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint. If there’s no war here. I’ll rent rather than buy again. I’ll take my pension when I retire and defer SS to 70 unless I fall ill before then. I know how to live on very little so I’m pretty adaptable. But I’m interested in a wake up call and some descriptions of pitfalls / bad scenarios.

What is the wake up call you're interested in? You seem perfectly comfortable with your current AA, you clearly want to keep working, and you are happy to keep spending low. So maybe you ask questions that get at contradicting this to get someone to persuade you otherwise, but time and time again I see you defend the above vociferously. That leads me to think...you are where you want to be and there's nothing from which to wake up? I would say just proceed with acceptance, with the expectation that inflation won't be fought. Personally I wonder the motivation behind soliciting (in my view) reasonable critiques of conservative AA, working longer, etc then immediately defending vociferously with somewhat myopic characterizations like retirement being "a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation". Maybe this is not your intent but I leave reading such defenses with a negative feeling of certain value judgements coming off of them.

I do find these discussions useful to question my perspective. I thought a $2.2 mil NW by 57 was a good goal, and I’ve almost reached it. Now I’ve bumped it to $3 mil. If I don't beat inflation, what kind of dire scenarios am I facing? I was able to add another approximately $36- $40k to my income this year because interest rates on bank savings and treasuries rose - so in inflationary times I have that mechanism. Right?

In 1987, 2001 and 2008, the decision to be low or no equities seemed well-nigh brilliant. I always thought that slowly and steadily proceeding toward a goal was more my path, to spare myself those sudden drops. As we know, if your equities drop 30 percent, you need to make up more than 30 percent to get back to even.

I’ve lived through those years of pain when my friends were frantic, selling their homes, losing their apartments, moving to LCOLAS and even bringing back purchases to the store and skipping the toppings on their pancakes because they cost extra. I’ve listened to terrible stories of imputed income, out of the money options, divorces, devastating losses of live time earnings, silent family breakfasts and pills.

When they asked me how I was faring, well, I’d just lived way below my means, earned and saved consistently, and slept well at night. A friend said, “you just read about it in the paper, it doesn’t affect your life.” All my money was in insured bank accounts and it felt good to know that whether bad times lasted 5 years or even ten, I could support myself. In my 30s, that let me focus on other pressing matters.

I just don’t think I’d feel good if I lost my life’s work in the markets. Especially in my 50s or 60s. That’s why I was so surprised in 2022 that I was barely troubled by it and bought more.

The last 2 years I’ve gotten much more comfortable with equities. But I don’t intend to let my AA get over 35 percent equities. I think 30 percent is fine.

I’ve thought of myself as a very successful person, having a seven figure net worth in my mid 50s, and no debt, but you all help me realize that it’s really not true at all. Anyway, I’ll post my 12/1 numbers instead of 12/31.

As for retirement, I have no doubt it can be enjoyable and inspiring. I just don’t think it would be in my case.

As for vociferously defending my position - I see it that I get asked questions about my approach and respond to them. I don’t think I’m being argumentative, even when questions seem to get personal.

[torso2500]

I would too. Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer, and have around $2.5M net worth. Move to a MCOLA. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint. If there’s no war here. I’ll rent rather than buy again. I’ll take my pension when I retire and defer SS to 70 unless I fall ill before then. I know how to live on very little so I’m pretty adaptable. But I’m interested in a wake up call and some descriptions of pitfalls / bad scenarios.

What is the wake up call you're interested in? You seem perfectly comfortable with your current AA, you clearly want to keep working, and you are happy to keep spending low. So maybe you ask questions that get at contradicting this to get someone to persuade you otherwise, but time and time again I see you defend the above vociferously. That leads me to think...you are where you want to be and there's nothing from which to wake up? I would say just proceed with acceptance, with the expectation that inflation won't be fought. Personally I wonder the motivation behind soliciting (in my view) reasonable critiques of conservative AA, working longer, etc then immediately defending vociferously with somewhat myopic characterizations like retirement being "a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation". Maybe this is not your intent but I leave reading such defenses with a negative feeling of certain value judgements coming off of them.

I do find these discussions useful to question my perspective. I thought a $2.2 mil NW by 57 was a good goal, and I’ve almost reached it. Now I’ve bumped it to $3 mil. If I don't beat inflation, what kind of dire scenarios am I facing? I was able to add another approximately $36- $40k to my income this year because interest rates on bank savings and treasuries rose - so in inflationary times I have that mechanism. Right?

In 1987, 2001 and 2008, the decision to be low or no equities seemed well-nigh brilliant. I always thought that slowly and steadily proceeding toward a goal was more my path, to spare myself those sudden drops. As we know, if your equities drop 30 percent, you need to make up more than 30 percent to get back to even.

I’ve lived through those years of pain when my friends were frantic, selling their homes, losing their apartments, moving to LCOLAS and even bringing back purchases to the store and skipping the toppings on their pancakes because they cost extra. I’ve listened to terrible stories of imputed income, out of the money options, divorces, devastating losses of live time earnings, silent family breakfasts and pills.

When they asked me how I was faring, well, I’d just lived way below my means, earned and saved consistently, and slept well at night. A friend said, “you just read about it in the paper, it doesn’t affect your life.” All my money was in insured bank accounts and it felt good to know that whether bad times lasted 5 years or even ten, I could support myself. In my 30s, that let me focus on other pressing matters.

I just don’t think I’d feel good if I lost my life’s work in the markets. Especially in my 50s or 60s. That’s why I was so surprised in 2022 that I was barely troubled by it and bought more.

The last 2 years I’ve gotten much more comfortable with equities. But I don’t intend to let my AA get over 35 percent equities. I think 30 percent is fine.

I’ve thought of myself as a very successful person, having a seven figure net worth in my mid 50s, and no debt, but you all help me realize that it’s really not true at all. Anyway, I’ll post my 12/1 numbers instead of 12/31.

As for retirement, I have no doubt it can be enjoyable and inspiring. I just don’t think it would be in my case.

As for vociferously defending my position - I see it that I get asked questions about my approach and respond to them. I don’t think I’m being argumentative, even when questions seem to get personal.

I guess I don't see you questioning your perspective very realistically, maybe in the abstract. Most of this very reply is you repeating your same reasoning for proceeding largely as you have been. And there's the value judgement entanglements in the part about being a successful person. Why do you ascribe the AA critique to this idea that people think you are not a successful person? By and large, people are expressing their concerns over inflation eating away at your healthy-sized nest egg. It's just an idea to trade off some risk in exchange for fighting inflation. It has nothing to do with you being a successful person, nor do I see a straight line from this suggestion to talk of losing your life's work, fearing the poor house, etc. You can be a wonderful, successful person whose portfolio doesn't pace with inflation.

As to your last bit re: defensiveness. Posters are not asking you questions unsolicited. You have a pattern of starting with a question that implies you want something, then your subsequent replies are strongly for not wanting that thing. I'm not bothered that you feel how you feel about your approach to things. It's that first step that puzzles me.

[AnnetteLouisan]

Originally the thread was about not wanting to retire but being a bit tempted due to all the noise from the FIRE movement and eventual work hassles. Folks successfully persuaded me to keep working. So, mission accomplished.

I think things derailed around the AA discussion. I do get that some people think I’d be better off if I hold more equities in my portfolio and if I count my bank savings as part of my portfolio and include it in fixed income. Those are reasonable. As mentioned, I’ve done things to get to 30/70 and we’ll see if I make it by 12/1 or 12/31.

But overall, I have a good job, a good income, good savings, various taxable and tax deferred accounts, contributing the max, getting the match, no debt, own my home, up to date on taxes etc., spending a bit more, have diversification, have decent asset location, a small pension, cola’d SS, and identified an approximate and realistic retirement timeframe.

All else seems to be peripheral.

[GAAP]

Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint.

Since you seem to like what you do, is there any potential for charitable work in your field? That could keep you mentally engaged, and work in concert with your hobbies. It would also leave open the possibility of a return to work if you felt it necessary.

I could teach or something. Or write. I was invited once to be considered for a charitable board. I guess I could do private tutoring for law students. I’m actually taking a class currently on preparing for life in retirement. We were asked to think of the aspects of work where we are most engrossed and engaged and think of fields that include those aspects.

But if I’m going to work anyway, why not keep the lawyer salary? I’ve never worked a low paying job (except when I was just starting out before I started work as a lawyer) and I don’t want to steal a spot from someone who has fewer options.

Where I live, the non-profits are always looking for attorneys -- they just can't afford to pay them. My wife (retired attorney) has to turn down those opportunities, since she retired due to stress-related health issues. Often, they're just looking for qualified board members, not necessarily legal advice.

[nonnie]

"I’ve thought of myself as a very successful person, having a seven figure net worth in my mid 50s, and no debt, but you all help me realize that it’s really not true at all"

This statement really jumped out at me. Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "you all help me realize that it’s really not true at all"? Are you speaking about all the posters who have tried to convince you that you are wrong in your asset allocation? I have been surprised at how many posters have hammered away at that and I guess it has followed on with them suggesting you could retire earlier.

But, I don't understand what you are referring to when you speak of thinking of yourself as a successful person and posters helping you realize that's not true. But then what do I know, I'm 81 with only 35% of your NW, no job and I'm 100% fixed income

[WhitePuma]

Originally the thread was about not wanting to retire but being a bit tempted due to all the noise from the FIRE movement and eventual work hassles. Folks successfully persuaded me to keep working. So, mission accomplished.

I think things derailed around the AA discussion. I do get that some people think I’d be better off if I hold more equities in my portfolio and if I count my bank savings as part of my portfolio and include it in fixed income. Those are reasonable. As mentioned, I’ve done things to get to 30/70 and we’ll see if I make it by 12/1 or 12/31.

But overall, I have a good job, a good income, good savings, various taxable and tax deferred accounts, contributing the max, getting the match, no debt, own my home, up to date on taxes etc., spending a bit more, have diversification, have decent asset location, a small pension, cola’d SS, and identified an approximate and realistic retirement timeframe.

All else seems to be peripheral.

One of the Boglehead tenets is “never bear too much or too little risk.” If you count your cash savings as part of your overall portfolio, you’re sitting below 25/75 in your 50s (?), which most would consider bearing too little (equity) risk (and too much inflation risk). So no, I wouldn’t consider this to be “peripheral”.

[AnnetteLouisan]

Well I mean, people on this board are saying that historically we could have a 40 percent crash that lasts ten years and we have to be okay with that. I’m not okay with subjecting most of my money to that. So why put myself in that position.

I’d rather earn a bit less than have to deal with ten years of that again. I also don’t want to have to be part of a shareholder class action or other lengthy process. I don’t like my assets to be subject to what some random newsmaker says or electronic trading or short sellers or anything. I just like a reasonable and consistent increase in my net worth with no heart stopping shocks.

SnowBog is terrific of course. He or she is just in a different frame of mind.

Perfect response!

Just because everybody else is highly allocated to equities, and "everybody else" says that's the way to be, doesn't mean it's right FOR YOU.

I'd say ignore all that noise and live your life the way YOU want to.
In other words, don't follow the herd. If they want to go that way, fine,
that doesn't mean you have to.

And that's coming from a guy who is at least 80% bonds and cash.
So what, if I was 80% equities I'm suddenly going to become immortal?

Uh, if anybody believes that, they need to run their numbers again.

Oh, and funny you should mention Arnold Schwarzenegger (in your earlier post) because since yesterday I've been sitting on a draft I've had doubts about posting since my views and posts are often "unconventional" to say the least, and coincidentally, he was used as an example in my draft.

Thank you.

[AnnetteLouisan]

Annette

I am one of the lurker admirers and have enjoyed your posts and responses.

As for your portfolio, I don't feel qualified to give advice, just offering my experience which I have not shared on bogleheads for fear of everybody piling on So thank you very much for putting yourself out there for those of us who are lurkers.

Up to my mid or late 30s I had very little stocks (0-30%). I own some other assets that will be ridiculed on the forum and I don't need the attention haha.

One Saturday afternoon I ran some calculations. CFIREsim I think was what I used and calculate what's the minimum % of stocks I need to own in order to have money (At that time I had a modest spending of either 30K or 40K per annum) going all the way to either age 100 or 120. Like you I have longevity in the family and my grandmas lived till late 90s. The answer is I need a minimum of 50% stocks.

I then spent an afternoon entering monthly simple buys at 50% stocks, 50% non stock trades. I think I just used monthly closing price of two big mutual funds/ ETFs as proxies. I entered those monthly trades in excel based on my real salary history, saving rate, starting from the year I graduated. I did them manually trade by trade. You can have all sorts of programs (or friendly bogleheads) do the math for you and spit out graphs but you don't get the same conviction that way. I think spending a couple hours doing this manual exercise and comparing in the results in relation to my own investing experience and what I knew about those years (e.g. 2008 was bad) was what finally convinced me to increase my stock %.

I am now comfortable with the 50% number because it offers a reasonable expected results either I am right or wrong about stocks. My current stock% is closer to 60%. I felt very calm in March 2020 when all the stock heavy portfolios suffered large unrealized losses, and I do not have FOMO when this or that stock rose 200%.

As I am getting older (45F single) and now blessed with a larger portfolio (2.6M including paid off townhome, just like you), I do not want to start over again and be poor. Having more of a 50% stock AA is my current answer to "what if my preference for non stock turns out to be an suboptimal choice".

Have a nice day

Thank you - this is great. Sorry for the delayed response.

[quantAndHold]

One of the Boglehead tenets is “never bear too much or too little risk.” If you count your cash savings as part of your overall portfolio, you’re sitting below 25/75 in your 50s (?), which most would consider bearing too little (equity) risk (and too much inflation risk). So no, I wouldn’t consider this to be “peripheral”.

Exactly. There are multiple types of financial risk. We all get really fixated on stock market risk, because it’s noisy. Our portfolios bounce up and down in reaction to market moves. Market risk, however, tends to be a fairly temporary risk. What goes down generally comes back up before we need the money. I think most of us just kind of ignore inflation risk, which is a more permanently damaging risk that is pretty much guaranteed to happen. Inflation is pernicious, because it quietly eats away at the real value of our portfolio, 2-3% or more per year, and you look up after 20 years, and that $2.5M that seemed like a lot is worth half of what it once was worth.

[AnnetteLouisan]

I'll go ahead and post it since there's no harm in looking at things from a different angle sometimes, right?
------------------------------------------

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but have gone thru some and there is a lot of good advice given. Here's my two cents:

Since you've already won the race financially, and most importantly, are not the average American drowning in debt and trying to live beyond their means just to impress people, and to "appear" successful, I'd say the most important thing to focus on at this stage of your life would be, what are you going to do when you retire?

Speaking for myself, but in your position, "when the time comes," I would have hopefully by then found a safer and less stressful place to live than in the US.
It's definitely The Land of Opportunity, and a great place to work and MAKE your money, pension, and SS, but to live and spend it there? I'd say that's easily open for debate.

Either way, when it comes to opportunity, just as an example, a guy like Arnold Schwarzenegger could have never risen to the level of success that he has, in any other country other than the US. So I am very grateful that I grew up in such a place with a lot of opportunities to get ahead if you put in the effort. That's why it has never bothered me to pay my taxes.

I'd say most people, when it comes to retiring, probably don't really do anything much different than what they've done all their life (although it might appear otherwise on the surface), except that now they don't have to "punch a clock" at work anymore.

But in a fast-paced society, like the American lifestyle is, I'd guess most are so "wound up" from spinning that hamster wheel for so many years, that you get conditioned to a certain mindset by things like "Time is Money" etc., which get readily burned into your DNA. So that you always have to find "things to do."

Just sitting and watching some trees getting blown about by the wind is not all that miserable an experience to have in life, but in the harried American lifestyle, where most seem to think taking a week vacation is a big deal, well,
I just don't see all that many who can truly appreciate such a simple thing,
much less have time "to waste" like that.

Anyway, maybe stepping out of the box is good once in a while? For example,
if you plan to keep working a few more years—since you're still young enough for it and are making big money—you could in the meantime start preparing for when the time comes, and maybe (for example, and if you are not too attached to the American lifestyle you grew up in), you could look into where your ancestors come from (if you find travel and other cultures interesting). Of course many people are not inclined to such things, and prefer to stay with what they've grown up on, and are familiar with.

But if such things do interest you, maybe take a trip over there. Who knows,
you might even get lucky and find some distant relatives still living out in some small town in Europe or wherever and maybe they'd be interested in meeting their long-lost American relative. You might even learn a whole new way of living from just being around them. It could open up a whole new world for you that you weren't even aware was out there. You never know, maybe they live a much slower-paced lifestyle where everybody isn't comparing themselves (and what they have) to the Joneses.

I recently saw a YouTube of quotes and found this little bit of advice both fitting and funny for the average American's lifestyle, "Don't go broke trying to impress broke people." You know, like the ones who will buy their Starbucks coffee (among other flashy things) with a credit card, and never pay it off. That "stuff" might look impressive on the surface, but I can't even imagine how they are able to sleep at night…and not because of the caffeine .

Sure, maybe those are just the more extreme cases. But what I find amazing is when I hear that like 60% of Americans would consider just a $400 unexpected car repair as a major problem! That is a terrible thing considering it is considered, "the richest country in the world?"

In my case, I was lucky enough to not only have a good paying job (of course nowhere near to what you're making!), but more importantly, I could take off on 2-month vacations and it didn't interfere with my position at work. Although I didn't get paid for those long "vacations" (actually scouting trips at the start), that was fine with me. I've always been a saver so was just grateful to be able to get the time off without it being a problem at work.

And after 20+ years of working there, with many of those years not even taking a "real" vacation, when I was about 45, that's when I seriously started my search for a place to retire. I quickly found a region and culture to my liking, so I totally dropped all the wasteful spending whenever back in the US (of which there wasn't much anyway since I've never been one for frivolous purchases). And for those 10 months when I'd be back at work, in the background, I always stayed totally focused on saving up and preparing for my "escape." But the escape wasn't from the job, that was practically the hardest thing to leave since I had always enjoyed it for the most part.

At the start I wasn't sure how long it would take to pull it off—to have all my ducks in a row—but after just 7 more years of work, things fell right into place and retirement just sort of snuck up on me at 52.

And the funny thing is how it happened so unexpectedly, and so soon after much deliberation, which had finally brought me to the conclusion that I better just "play it safe" and keep working till 60. That way I could save more, plus get the higher pension. Because, "what if....?"

Well, it's almost 17 years later now, and I have never regretted retiring early,
at 52. And in a few months I'll be starting my SS (just short of 70), which I'll just be banking away since there's nothing more I really need. So the Boogie man that almost scared me into working till 60, never got me, and has never even shown his face, as I had once feared "back then" with all the "what ifs" that permeate that society and keep everyone afraid of their own shadow, and fixed in their yoke—often till they drop. In other words, it all worked out.

So depending on your temperament, interests, etc, I'd say if it's possible with your job, maybe try testing the waters a bit and take annual "mini-retirements" of however long you can get off. At least for a few years, just to get the feel of it, and to see how you fare.

Because one or two week vacations are not representative samples, nor are they able to give you any sense for a new place, and how you really feel in it. That's just like splashing around on the surface, then before you know it, you're back into the same daily routine with those 2 weeks passing as if it was just a snap of the fingers. Most people really won't get much more out of it than just some photos of places to show to others, maybe some selfies, a little short-lived fun, and of course, let's not undervalue those ever-coveted bragging rights of
"I've been to the Titanic!" or whatever.

Anyway, I do recognize that my views are not conventional,
but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

This is fantastic. Really great ideas here.

[WhitePuma]

But I . . . have a job I like that actually is the best part of my life right now because it provides intellectual challenge, meaning, structure, identity, opportunities to learn and help others, engagement, social context and… money and benefits. Without all that I face a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation.

If your job is the best part of your life, what is the purpose of this entire thread, which begins “help Annette keep working”?

I’m glad to see you’re feeling better than you were the other day.

Not sure if this is intended to be sarcastic, as it has no bearing to my post and isn’t true.

My message — which was a response to a point you made — was kind, on point, and intended to be thought-provoking.

The presence of me posting doesn’t mean I’m feeling better, and to be honest, I’m not. But I find it purposeful to try and help others.

[freckles01]

Originally the thread was about not wanting to retire but being a bit tempted due to all the noise from the FIRE movement and eventual work hassles. Folks successfully persuaded me to keep working. So, mission accomplished.

I think things derailed around the AA discussion. I do get that some people think I’d be better off if I hold more equities in my portfolio and if I count my bank savings as part of my portfolio and include it in fixed income. Those are reasonable. As mentioned, I’ve done things to get to 30/70 and we’ll see if I make it by 12/1 or 12/31.

But overall, I have a good job, a good income, good savings, various taxable and tax deferred accounts, contributing the max, getting the match, no debt, own my home, up to date on taxes etc., spending a bit more, have diversification, have decent asset location, a small pension, cola’d SS, and identified an approximate and realistic retirement timeframe.

All else seems to be peripheral.

I'm planning to FIRE at 55. My original goal was to FIRE at 50-52 (because I was feeling so burnt out) but also got the OMY (one more year) bug- each year pushing the goalpost a little bit further, upping my FIRE number.

Then was able to go part time- dramatically lowered overall stress (my job is very rewarding w/great benefits but stressful plus work hassles/drama) and opened up alot of free time for self care/relaxing.

I can keep OMY'ing while working part time but its seems like every year, I hear of more coworkers or other employees in different departments (work for a large company) getting a terrible diagnosis/dying, some never getting to retire.

From previous post- its seems like you can live comfortably frugally and your networth (plus SS/pension etc) will be enough no matter that its conservatively invested.

Don't OMY too long and please don't compare your financial numbers against other Bogleheads- totally not worth it! There are super high earners (who have aggressively invested for decades) and low income earners without a 401k - everyone is on their own personal financial path, you need to plan out yours.

There's that saying- Comparison is the thief of joy.
Have you ever played with the Rich, Broke or Dead calculator?

[Cranberry44]

I acknowledge that I didn’t read the thread. If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do with 340k gross compensation?

[AnnetteLouisan]

I acknowledge that I didn’t read the thread. If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do with 340k gross compensation?

2022:
85k taxes
19k housing
9k food
4k insurance
8k - phone/internet, transportation, laundry, housekeeping, utilities, clothes, shoes, toiletries, tips, gifts, repairs, donations, memberships, hoa fees, subscriptions, misc (I can itemize if you wish)
Max 401k and catch up
Max Roth IRA (backdoor and catch-up
Max FSA
10k I bonds
80k taxable
120k t bills
Bank the rest (HYSA)

2023: added better housing and a car, gas, tolls, a few massages and a facial.

[Cranberry44]

I acknowledge that I didn’t read the thread. If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do with 340k gross compensation?

2022:
85k taxes
19k housing
9k food
4k insurance
8k - phone/internet, transportation, laundry, housekeeping, utilities, clothes, shoes, toiletries, tips, gifts, repairs, donations, memberships, hoa fees, subscriptions, misc (I can itemize if you wish)
Max 401k and catch up
Max Roth IRA (backdoor and catch-up
Max FSA
10k I bonds
80k taxable
120k t bills
Bank the rest (HYSA)

2023: added better housing and a car, a few massages and a facial.

So sorry for my clumsy question (plus typo). Although the break down is interesting!

What I meant to ask is, what do you do that pays 340k a year?

[AnnetteLouisan]

I acknowledge that I didn’t read the thread. If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do with 340k gross compensation?

2022:
85k taxes
19k housing
9k food
4k insurance
8k - phone/internet, transportation, laundry, housekeeping, utilities, clothes, shoes, toiletries, tips, gifts, repairs, donations, memberships, hoa fees, subscriptions, misc (I can itemize if you wish)
Max 401k and catch up
Max Roth IRA (backdoor and catch-up
Max FSA
10k I bonds
80k taxable
120k t bills
Bank the rest (HYSA)

2023: added better housing and a car, a few massages and a facial.

So sorry for my clumsy question (plus typo). Although the break down is interesting!

What I meant to ask is, what do you do that pays 340k a year?

I’m an attorney in my highest earning years (50s). The 340 includes salary, matching, bonuses and interest/dividends.

[Cranberry44]

I acknowledge that I didn’t read the thread. If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do with 340k gross compensation?

2022:
85k taxes
19k housing
9k food
4k insurance
8k - phone/internet, transportation, laundry, housekeeping, utilities, clothes, shoes, toiletries, tips, gifts, repairs, donations, memberships, hoa fees, subscriptions, misc (I can itemize if you wish)
Max 401k and catch up
Max Roth IRA (backdoor and catch-up
Max FSA
10k I bonds
80k taxable
120k t bills
Bank the rest (HYSA)

2023: added better housing and a car, a few massages and a facial.

So sorry for my clumsy question (plus typo). Although the break down is interesting!

What I meant to ask is, what do you do that pays 340k a year?

I’m an attorney in my highest earning years (50s). The 340 includes salary, matching, bonuses and interest/dividends.

Congrats on a successful career! I’m sure you worked very hard and earned/deserve it!

(*Internally: “comparison is the thief of joy… comparison is the thief of joy… comparison is the thief of joy…”)

[AnnetteLouisan]

I acknowledge that I didn’t read the thread. If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do with 340k gross compensation?

2022:
85k taxes
19k housing
9k food
4k insurance
8k - phone/internet, transportation, laundry, housekeeping, utilities, clothes, shoes, toiletries, tips, gifts, repairs, donations, memberships, hoa fees, subscriptions, misc (I can itemize if you wish)
Max 401k and catch up
Max Roth IRA (backdoor and catch-up
Max FSA
10k I bonds
80k taxable
120k t bills
Bank the rest (HYSA)

2023: added better housing and a car, a few massages and a facial.

So sorry for my clumsy question (plus typo). Although the break down is interesting!

What I meant to ask is, what do you do that pays 340k a year?

I’m an attorney in my highest earning years (50s). The 340 includes salary, matching, bonuses and interest/dividends.

Congrats on a successful career! I’m sure you worked very hard and earned/deserve it!

(*Internally: “comparison is the thief of joy… comparison is the thief of joy… comparison is the thief of joy…”)

It’s a pretty tough profession to bluff into, much less stay in, lol. You would not be jealous if you knew the long hours and other sacrifices involved. I had a lot of good teachers, financial aid and mentors, and of course my family. Thank you for the congrats. It’s a good field to be in.

[JakeyLee]

I'm curious how many Bogleheads have had health problems throw a monkey wrench into their retirement plans versus running out of money problems.
It seems like the baseline assumption here is that everyone is going to have a very long retirement and (despite conservative withdrawal assumptions and other sources of income) everyone needs a ginormous pile of money which often requires working longer.

Running short of money is not a given, especially for this crowd. Every year of additional work will likely result in one less year of retirement and one less year of active healthy retirement. While some people might go off the rails in retirement in terms of lifestyle factors i know of so many that get their act together in retirement given the gift of time to exercise, eat well and engage in activities that promote physical, mental and emotional well-being. The exception are those individuals whose identities and well-being are defined by their employment.

*deleted… caught myself whining. Nothing to see here.. carry on.

[saagar_is_cool]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

[Taylor Larimore]

Originally the thread was about not wanting to retire but being a bit tempted due to all the noise from the FIRE movement and eventual work hassles. Folks successfully persuaded me to keep working. So, mission accomplished.

I think things derailed around the AA discussion. I do get that some people think I’d be better off if I hold more equities in my portfolio and if I count my bank savings as part of my portfolio and include it in fixed income. Those are reasonable. As mentioned, I’ve done things to get to 30/70 and we’ll see if I make it by 12/1 or 12/31.

But overall, I have a good job, a good income, good savings, various taxable and tax deferred accounts, contributing the max, getting the match, no debt, own my home, up to date on taxes etc., spending a bit more, have diversification, have decent asset location, a small pension, cola’d SS, and identified an approximate and realistic retirement timeframe.

All else seems to be peripheral.

Annette:

And most important of all: Good Health!

Taylor

Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "The great game of life is not about money; it is about doing your best to join the battle to build anew ourselves, our communities, our nation, and our world."

[AnnetteLouisan]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

[saagar_is_cool]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn’t trying to nitpick, apologize if my post came off that way. I was genuinely curious if you did have a $300k+ net boost since August as our portfolio hasn’t grown by that much percentage since Aug. I wanted to learn if there were any drivers like NVDA / real estate etc.

[AnnetteLouisan]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn’t trying to nitpick, apologize if my post came off that way. I was genuinely curious if you did have a $300k+ net boost since August as our portfolio hasn’t grown by that much percentage since Aug. I wanted to learn if there were any drivers like NVDA / real estate etc.

No, I don’t own any individual stocks. I didn’t buy and flip any real estate. No $300k boosts. No it didn’t come off as nitpicky. I know a lot of numbers are flying around.

[EnjoyIt]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

I’m sure you know this, but I will clarify anyways. The value of your home is totally meaningless in your calculations until you are ready to sell. Your portfolio value is what matters most.

Why should it matter what your home is worth if you plan on living in it long term? What would you feel better about? Your home value going up $200k or your portfolio going up $200k? I prefer the portfolio going up $200k because my portfolio will provide me more spending money. The only thing an increased home price will give me is increased property tax.

That is why I keep my home value out of my financial goals.

I would consider restating your goal as maybe $1.9 million and paid of house or $2.4 million and a paid off house. I know it is nit picky and doesn’t matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. But I feel like this method has a bit more clarity to it.

[nonnie]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

I’m sure you know this, but I will clarify anyways. The value of your home is totally meaningless in your calculations until you are ready to sell. Your portfolio value is what matters most.

Why should it matter what your home is worth if you plan on living in it long term? What would you feel better about? Your home value going up $200k or your portfolio going up $200k? I prefer the portfolio going up $200k because my portfolio will provide me more spending money. The only thing an increased home price will give me is increased property tax.

That is why I keep my home value out of my financial goals.

I would consider restating your goal as maybe $1.9 million and paid of house or $2.4 million and a paid off house. I know it is nit picky and doesn’t matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. But I feel like this method has a bit more clarity to it.

I'm not the OP but I have a question. Why would a portfolio going up by $200K mean anything until I am ready to sell?

[EnjoyIt]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

I’m sure you know this, but I will clarify anyways. The value of your home is totally meaningless in your calculations until you are ready to sell. Your portfolio value is what matters most.

Why should it matter what your home is worth if you plan on living in it long term? What would you feel better about? Your home value going up $200k or your portfolio going up $200k? I prefer the portfolio going up $200k because my portfolio will provide me more spending money. The only thing an increased home price will give me is increased property tax.

That is why I keep my home value out of my financial goals.

I would consider restating your goal as maybe $1.9 million and paid of house or $2.4 million and a paid off house. I know it is nit picky and doesn’t matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. But I feel like this method has a bit more clarity to it.

I'm not the OP but I have a question. Why would a portfolio going up by $200K mean anything until I am ready to sell?

If your goal is 30/70 AA that means 70% of that is in bonds throwing off interest.

A larger portfolio has a higher rate of success at a given withdrawal rate.

Despite that, your point is well taken.

[AnnetteLouisan]

I would too. Recently I was asked to delineate my expectations for the next 5-10 years. I’ll work another 2-3 years if I can. unless it’s practical to work longer, and have around $2.5M net worth. Move to a MCOLA. I assume I’ll encounter health issues. Beyond that, my goals are “just” food a roof, a car and as good health as I can manage. Then I’ll just garden or paint. If there’s no war here. I’ll rent rather than buy again. I’ll take my pension when I retire and defer SS to 70 unless I fall ill before then. I know how to live on very little so I’m pretty adaptable. But I’m interested in a wake up call and some descriptions of pitfalls / bad scenarios.

My only comment on the plan, which sounds lovely, btw, is that you already have a lot of inflation risk in your portfolio. By renting instead of owning, you’re adding more of the same risk via your housing situation.

Yes that’s true. Thank you.

[AnnetteLouisan]

Originally the thread was about not wanting to retire but being a bit tempted due to all the noise from the FIRE movement and eventual work hassles. Folks successfully persuaded me to keep working. So, mission accomplished.

I think things derailed around the AA discussion. I do get that some people think I’d be better off if I hold more equities in my portfolio and if I count my bank savings as part of my portfolio and include it in fixed income. Those are reasonable. As mentioned, I’ve done things to get to 30/70 and we’ll see if I make it by 12/1 or 12/31.

But overall, I have a good job, a good income, good savings, various taxable and tax deferred accounts, contributing the max, getting the match, no debt, own my home, up to date on taxes etc., spending a bit more, have diversification, have decent asset location, a small pension, cola’d SS, and identified an approximate and realistic retirement timeframe.

All else seems to be peripheral.

Annette:

And most important of all: Good Health!

Taylor

Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "The great game of life is not about money; it is about doing your best to join the battle to build anew ourselves, our communities, our nation, and our world."

So true, Taylor!

Thank you for reminding us that if we have our health and the opportunity to serve we are rich indeed.

[EnjoyIt]

I am just curious. how did your NW go from $1.55M in Aug 23 to $2.5M in November, unless you are counting the house value of $650k. Even then, it is a $300k jump.

My portfolio is $1.55M
My home is 600k (this fluctuates between 600 and 650 but trending down).
My NW is $2.15M
My goal was $2.2M
My NW if I retire in a few years could be $2.5M.
My NW goal is $3M.

I don’t think I ever said my current NW is 2.5. If I did, sorry, it was a typo - unfortunately!

I just read you plan on selling your home and rent when retired. Please disregard my previous comment about portfolio size and net worth.

[AnnetteLouisan]

But I . . . have a job I like that actually is the best part of my life right now because it provides intellectual challenge, meaning, structure, identity, opportunities to learn and help others, engagement, social context and… money and benefits. Without all that I face a life of boredom, lassitude, penny pinching and isolation.

If your job is the best part of your life, what is the purpose of this entire thread, which begins “help Annette keep working”?

I’m glad to see you’re feeling better than you were the other day.

Not sure if this is intended to be sarcastic, as it has no bearing to my post and isn’t true.

My message — which was a response to a point you made — was kind, on point, and intended to be thought-provoking.

The presence of me posting doesn’t mean I’m feeling better, and to be honest, I’m not. But I find it purposeful to try and help others.

No I genuinely cared about how you were, since you seemed pretty unhappy the other day. Here’s to things getting better.

[LadyGeek]

As noted in Subject: Help Annette Keep Working and Not Retire:

Originally the thread was about not wanting to retire but being a bit tempted due to all the noise from the FIRE movement and eventual work hassles. Folks successfully persuaded me to keep working. So, mission accomplished.

I think things derailed around the AA discussion. I do get that some people think I’d be better off if I hold more equities in my portfolio and if I count my bank savings as part of my portfolio and include it in fixed income. Those are reasonable. As mentioned, I’ve done things to get to 30/70 and we’ll see if I make it by 12/1 or 12/31.

But overall, I have a good job, a good income, good savings, various taxable and tax deferred accounts, contributing the max, getting the match, no debt, own my home, up to date on taxes etc., spending a bit more, have diversification, have decent asset location, a small pension, cola’d SS, and identified an approximate and realistic retirement timeframe.

All else seems to be peripheral.

The OP has decided to keep working. The discussion is no longer productive. This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted). See: Locked Topics

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