FIRE - mid-40's, modest portfolio, no pension. Sanity check, please

[rocket354]

Mid-40s, single. NW around $1.7MM. About $1.5MM of that is invested. Of liquid assets, about 97% is stocks, 3% cash. Really want to FIRE in about six months. I am looking for constructive feedback on any part of my situation: portfolio allocation, planned FIRE date, planned FIRE activities, withdrawal strategy, etc...anything and everything is in play.

Taxable: $890k -- about $600k in VTI (total market), about $290k in VBR/VIOV (small-cap value)
Roth IRA: $330k -- about $180k in VBR (small-cap value), $80k in VOE/VTV (mid/large value), $70k in VSS/VWO/VXUS (small-cap/emerging market/total international)
Traditional 401(k): $230k -- about $100k in international (state street, but < 0.4% fee), $70k in VOO (S&P 500 fund), $60k in VXF (extended market)
HSA: $30k -- $16k in VTI (total market), $14k in VXF (extended market)
Checking: $15k, earns 4%
Emergency Fund/Cash reserves: $25k in vanguard money market, currently earning 5.28%

Overall net fees is < 0.1%.

Other assets:
Own home, worth about $450k, with $255k, 2.625% mortgage. I count this as $150k toward my NW because I back out 10% of total home value for transaction costs. Total PITI is right around $1300/mo.

Car/personal items of value: $30k or so. Car is < $10k of that, an 11-year-old compact sedan still under 100k miles. I'm hoping to get to 20 years with it. Drives like new.

Reasoning for allocation: I am limited in my available low-cost fund selection for my 401(k) and HSA, so I have what's available. I use my taxable and Roth to get my overall portfolio allocation closer to what I want, which is a value tilt, a small-cap tilt, and between 10 and 20% international, with a small-cap/EM tilt within my international allocation. I like international in my tax-deferred accounts for tax purposes.

My TC at my current job is about $170k, including reliable bonus, 401(k) match, and employer HSA contribution. This may actually increase next year (beyond typical 3% raise) due to my expecting a bonus that would be a larger percentage of a larger base salary (recent promotion), but let's use this number as a safe estimate of my earning potential.

My annual spending the last two years, including all housing expenses, was $36k in 2021, $38k in 2022, and looking like I should finish 2023 under $42k. The increase has been from lifestyle inflation, as I've been allowing myself to eat out more and to travel more. I've had no major expenses the last few years (no new roof, car, HVAC, anything of that sort).

My core expenses I count as $37,200/year, or $3100/mo:

$1300 PITI
$300 utilities, incl cell phone ($20/mo plan, $15/mo replacement cost)
$400 repairs/maintenance (allocation)
$400 groceries/toiletries/household items
$400 car expenses (currently < $150/mo including gas/maintenance, but allowing for increase as car gets older, and eventual frugal replacements)
$300 healthcare costs

That includes utilities/food/car all at my current (very acceptable) level of consumption. I recognize that healthcare costs will probably increase quite a bit, so perhaps my $300/month allocation is low, but even with some recent health issues I've been well under that, and my ACA estimate is pretty close to 0, so I think this is a good number for the time being. Who knows what I should assume by the time I'm 60, however.

Due to not paying any recent lumpy expenses, that means my recent discretionary spending has been between $8-10k per year. This would be mostly travel, with some increased eating out and some consumer goods thrown in (I bought an xbox last year, for example).

All told, my annual spend including allocations for lumpy expenses would be estimated to be between $45-50k/year, with 20% of that considered discretionary, although of course if push came to shove I could downsize my housing, eat less expensive groceries, go back to mowing my own lawn, etc, etc.

My withdrawal strategy will be a fixed withdrawal percentage with a floor. I will withdraw 4% of the portfolio (so, would be $60,000 today) but will have an inflation-adjusted floor of 3% of the starting value--so $45,000 no matter what, even with a big market drop. This would give me $10-15k more spending than I currently do to engage in more traveling/food--or to buffer me from increased health costs. It would also give me a reasonable floor, under which I'm already living, to endure tougher times. In back-testing, this strategy succeeded 100% of the time over 40-year periods, with the worst outcome retaining 60% of the starting portfolio's value, and in over 90% of cases the portfolio was higher than its beginning value.

Reasons for wanting to FIRE: I really don't like my job. It isn't the most stressful or time-consuming job, but it's a thorn in my side, and with the recent promotion it's more stressful than it had been. I don't enjoy doing it, and don't get any personal satisfaction out of it. I feel trapped as every aspect of my life is controlled by my job. Weekends are fun for 1.5 days as I can be free again, but then by about this time on Sundays I'm getting those Sunday Scaries and just loathing the thought of logging back in and dealing with all the work items I really don't care the slightest about. I would much rather spend my time relaxed, happy, and pursuing hobbies. I don't think "getting a new job" is really an answer. I spent most of my adult life self-employed and the whole "working for someone else" thing in my experience is the same (or worse than my current situation) no matter where I go. I do have some hobbies that could produce some income, but I have to assume they will be expenses in retirement to be safe. But I really do want time to do the things I enjoy.

Reasons for being concerned: I'm worried about the current market environment. Even if portfolios at my current planned withdrawal rate have always survived 30 years, 1) I'm possibly looking at a 40-50 year retirement, and, 2) there are many near-failures that would have been stressful and probably caused a failure of my retirement--for example, if I'd retired in 1973 with a 4% spend then I'd be down to 40% of my portfolio remaining by the end of 1981. Even though in hindsight the portfolio in that situation survived, I'm willing to bet that I'd have gone back to work at some point, probably at a lower comp level. So, ultimately, I feel like I should continue to make hay while the sun shines rather than risk being in a tough spot 10 or 20 years down the road. As well, expenses at age 70+ are a concern. Will I have enough to afford all care I might need at that age? And, then, of course, I do worry I'm retiring "from" work more than retiring "to" something. Will I get bored after 3 months of playing video games and reading books? Will I get tired of travelling after a year of going around the world (one of my plans)? Then what? Also, what if I want to take up more expensive hobbies? Or I find a partner/have a kid? There are lots of what-ifs that can increase my expenses.

Reasons for retiring in six months: Retiring after Q12024 would allow me to max out Roth IRA and 401(k) for the year, get my annual bonus (paid in Q1) and also to get some income at the lowest tax rates--after standard deductions and 401(k) contributions I would owe very little taxes on the money I earned to that point, so it seems a very efficient time to leave.

Edit to add: I expect about $24k/yr in SS at age 70 if I were to hang it up in six months and never work again.

Thoughts on my situation and plan?

[minimalistmarc]

If you have a 170k, non stressful job seems a bit drastic to FIRE now. Could you negotiate unpaid leave and travel for a few months to get it out of your system? Maybe I’m looking at it from my own view point of having 2 young kids and a spouse, but I don’t think I could take that leap in your position.

[FiveK]

Assuming $50K/yr expenses and $1.5 million invested, that's a 3.33% withdrawal rate - not accounting for whatever SS would kick in at age 70 to provide a COLA payment for that and subsequent years.

Even The Safe Withdrawal Rate Series - Early Retirement Now would suggest that will work. See also withdrawal methods such as Variable-percentage.

Of course, the choice is yours....

[funxional]

You have kept your living expenses low, which is great. However, it means that you have less wiggle room to cut out expenses if necessary. I would look at ways to improve your job quality, take an extended leave as suggested above, or find an alternative position that might improve your quality of life.

Adding even 1-2 years earnings is a big difference and aside from dumpster fire companies I expect a new position would be interesting for at least that long.

[mulkeytown]

You say the main motivation for FIRE is dissatisfaction with your current job, but it doesn’t sound like you have really done an extensive search for a better job. Ask yourself, if you were in a more fulfilling role, would you really be looking to retire today?

In your 40s, the daily grind can really wear you down, but the answer is not reading and video games. If you are intelligent enough to make $170k and get promoted, you will get bored of that really quickly. People thrive when they have a purpose, and a different job could provide much more of a sense of purpose than what you propose to do in retirement. Dream a little and consider a wider range of career options.

If it were me, I would switch jobs or tough it out for a while, with the goal of paying off the mortgage. Allow debt freedom to be a motivating factor at work even if the job isn’t intrinsically motivating. Once you are debt free, your ongoing expenses would be lower, your withdrawal rate lower, and your odds of portfolio failure reduced. Then reevaluate your plan at that point.

I would also suggest doing an analysis of social security and factoring that into your plan. If a few more years will get you to the next bend point, it may be worth working a bit more.

[Olemiss540]

Yes you are clear. Don't listen to these naysayers that place value in using their jobs as a purpose as a reason to "tough it out". If you have enjoyed a fulfilling life with your current expenses, and dont find you current purpose fulfilling, seems like you are set to do whatever you think makes your life meaningful.

If you regret it and want a job later, would be easy to find a specific meaning without concern to future income given your level of savings.

[rocket354]

I appreciate all responses. I've added my expected SS to the OP; I expect $24k/yr at age 70 if I stop working in six months and never earn another dime.

[0x5da1bc2f]

You've done well setting yourself up for success. I think the FIRE plan sounds tight (I would wait and earn for a few more years and get the mortgage paid off, personally) but I think if you were really clear about what purpose you'd be fulfilling in FIRE, it would likely be a clear decision.

The emotional reasons probably concern me the most. I highly recommend therapy, it's expensive but I think it's one of the best gifts I've ever given myself.

I think traveling the world, reading books, and playing video games will feel amazing for a few years then get old, really fast. Hobbies could certainly help with that but I'm still skeptical for the same reasons you've named lower in your post.

There are so many places to work that are great and things to do that could be more stimulating or stimulating in a different way. So many work configurations that could give you more flexibility to do the things you enjoy, too.

You also mentioned being open to finding a partner and building a relationship, it could be bumpy to build a relationship with someone who is compatible in terms of values, financially, but isn't setup like you, you would then need more saved so your partner could also retire with you (or you would join the workforce again?) I don't think this should dictate too much about your decision because it's a big "what-if" but it feels like an important factor to think hard about. I think it would be much easier to find a partner who is compatible with your approach to finances, and work 5 more years to ensure you both can retire together or near in time, then it would be to find someone and reenter the workforce after a few years of stagnating skills (potential employers would likely treat your long stint away with a lot of suspicion).

If it were me, I would get myself into therapy (which will really help you understand what's underneath the discontent and other surface emotions you've described to us) while I had this higher paying job. Stack more. Work on paying off the mortgage. Then in two years, begin looking for another job that would be a downshift but in any industry vertical I have more of an emotional connection to (like, what sort of social / worldwide problems do you care about?)

I'd work that job or others like it until 50 or 55. That gives you lower stress, keeps you employed and employable, gives you time to sort out what you want partnership wise, and you'll have much more saved for retirement. Your house should also be paid off by then.

[vfinx]

I would say you should ask for a 6 month sabbatical. Nothing to lose. If they say no, you walk. If they say yes, you take it, and can still walk 6 months from now, but with more certainty. Maybe you can even stay on the healthcare plan in the meantime. You could be up front and say that there’s a big chance you won’t come back. Many companies would be willing to take the gamble. It’s hard to replace good people.

[upstate90]

I appreciate all responses. I've added my expected SS to the OP; I expect $24k/yr at age 70 if I stop working in six months and never earn another dime.

$24k a year at age 70 seems quite low with that income. Are you sure about those numbers?

Mid 40s is about what I'm shooting for to FIRE. I'm single with low expenses as well.

Yes you can FIRE if you want IMHO if your expenses don't increase by a lot.

Or look into a low stress, easy, part time job? Even a little income per year could really buffer your situation.

[livingalmostlarge]

Is $300 a month a realistic expense for healthcare during the most expensive years coming up? It cheap to insure 35-45, but 45-65 even with Obamacare gets expensive fast.

I rarely see people retiring lean saying oh I got cancer or an autoimmune disease and able to mitigate more expensive treatment or healthcare. If you have an Uber generous budget and backstop or lots of fire retirees have partners or spouses who cover them.

Healthcare reality check at 55-65 would be my concern

[Watty]

I am looking for constructive feedback on any part of my situation: portfolio allocation, planned FIRE date, planned FIRE activities, withdrawal strategy, etc...anything and everything is in play.

First without even trying to crunch the numbers with a $1.7 million dollar net worth if you were somehow forced to retire today and could never work again as a single person in your mid 40s you could somehow make things work if you never worked again.

The problem is that you are budgeting for a pretty frugal retirement so you don't have a lot of margin for error. If you retire you will also have a lot more time to spend money on things like hobbies and travel so your spending could be higher than expected.

A couple of questions to consider;

1) If you quit your job then how hard would it be to find another job, even if it did not pay as well, if you needed to in a year or even five years? With some jobs like some medical jobs this might be pretty practical but in other fields like some tech fields that might be pretty hard.

2) What are the chances that you could find part time or seasonal work in your field? If you could find part a part time job which pays well for the next few years you should be able to cover your expected expenses pretty easily which would give you more time for your portfolio to grow, move more money into tax advantaged retirement accounts, and qualify for more Social Security which is calculated on your highest 35 years of earnings.

3) Have you looked into taking a sabbatical from work for maybe 3 to 6 months? That might allow you time to decompress and get more of a feel about what being retired might be like.

4) Unless I missed it you did not say how much Social Security you can expect to get someday. When you check that on the Social Security web site be sure to change the defaults so that it calculates that based on you retiring early.

My core expenses I count as $37,200/year, or $3100/mo:

$1300 PITI
$300 utilities, incl cell phone ($20/mo plan, $15/mo replacement cost)
$400 repairs/maintenance
$400 groceries/toiletries/household items
$400 car expenses (currently < $150/mo including gas/maintenance, but allowing for increase as car gets older, and eventual frugal replacements)
$300 healthcare costs

A few things I don't see in that.
1) State and federal income taxes.
2) Prorated costs for things like a replacement car, roof, HVAC system, home remodeling(If you have a 40 year retirement you will likely need to remodel the kitchen and bathrooms at some point.)
3) travel, hobbies, and entertainment expenses
4) Dental bills. (Don't even ask how much I have paid. )

A more realistic target might be more in the range of $50k to $60k

[FiveK]

I appreciate all responses. I've added my expected SS to the OP; I expect $24k/yr at age 70 if I stop working in six months and never earn another dime.

$24k a year at age 70 seems quite low with that income. Are you sure about those numbers?

That's a good question.

E.g., someone born in 1978 with SS earnings only from 2005 (age 27) through 2023 (age 45) might expect $24K/yr at age 70 in 2048 even if earnings each year were ~44.4% of the maximum SS earnings for that year (so earning $39,950 in 2005, $71,112 in 2023, etc.), assuming
- no increase to the average wage index (likely a very conservative assumption)
- no "haircut" to SS benefits in ~2035 (whether that is likely or not gets into politics so no comment on the likelihood)

[Boglenaut]

You have done very well.

But remember, life changes and you are only half way through it.

When i was in my early 40s, I was starting to think I would be single forever. Fast forward a few decades and I am paying/saving for 2 kids' college educations.

Expenses are not predictable in the long-term. In 2012, I went through our records and calculated exactly how much we spent in a calendar year. I think it was $32k or 34K. It is probably double that now, not counting college expenses.

Once you leave the workforce, it can be very hard to get back in.

If I were you, I would keep the dream alive but give myself more margin of error so you don't lock yourself into a lifestyle. Right now, time is on your side; as soon as you retire that could reverse.

[rocket354]

If you have a 170k, non stressful job seems a bit drastic to FIRE now. Could you negotiate unpaid leave and travel for a few months to get it out of your system? Maybe I’m looking at it from my own view point of having 2 young kids and a spouse, but I don’t think I could take that leap in your position.

I'm not sure non-stressful is the best description. It just isn't overly-stressful. I am able to fit all my work into the standard 40 hrs. But the stress has been increasing as my responsibilities have increased, and as there's been more talk of budget concerns. I do sometimes catch myself thinking of work items while in the shower on the weekends or on vacation, when I never really used to do that.

I'll definitely consider the unpaid sabbatical idea. I'll have to test the political waters in March to see if that's even feasible.

[rocket354]

You have kept your living expenses low, which is great. However, it means that you have less wiggle room to cut out expenses if necessary. I would look at ways to improve your job quality, take an extended leave as suggested above, or find an alternative position that might improve your quality of life.

Adding even 1-2 years earnings is a big difference and aside from dumpster fire companies I expect a new position would be interesting for at least that long.

I agree that another year or two always adds more cushion. But that's the problem. I was in position to potentially pull the plus two years ago. But OMY kept me going. And in another year or two, it will still be the case that yet another year or two will make me that much more secure.

I do have current spend capacity of $60k with base expenses down around $37k, so that is still a decent amount of wiggle room. But I do hear you. That $23k/year of wiggle room could easily be taken up by a recurring medical need, and/or a kid, all while the market is down.

[rocket354]

You say the main motivation for FIRE is dissatisfaction with your current job, but it doesn’t sound like you have really done an extensive search for a better job. Ask yourself, if you were in a more fulfilling role, would you really be looking to retire today?

In your 40s, the daily grind can really wear you down, but the answer is not reading and video games. If you are intelligent enough to make $170k and get promoted, you will get bored of that really quickly. People thrive when they have a purpose, and a different job could provide much more of a sense of purpose than what you propose to do in retirement. Dream a little and consider a wider range of career options.

If it were me, I would switch jobs or tough it out for a while, with the goal of paying off the mortgage. Allow debt freedom to be a motivating factor at work even if the job isn’t intrinsically motivating. Once you are debt free, your ongoing expenses would be lower, your withdrawal rate lower, and your odds of portfolio failure reduced. Then reevaluate your plan at that point.

I would also suggest doing an analysis of social security and factoring that into your plan. If a few more years will get you to the next bend point, it may be worth working a bit more.

I really like your response. If my role were fulfilling I would not be looking at retiring immediately. However, that's part of the reason I want to retire (or, at least, quit for the time being and pursue other interests) is to find meaning and purpose. Maybe I write the great American novel. Or find fulfillment in my other hobbies. Perhaps one can become my next career of sorts. But, currently, I do not feel like I have purpose or meaning, just grinding through each day, dreaming of 5 o'clock, in order to get a few more dollars into my accounts.

[cmr79]

OP, you mostly discussed wanting to retire away from your job rather than retiring to free up time for other activities. You can financially swing it, but I am in agreement with other posters with concern for what you will actually do with your time given your primary motivator. You mentioned that you've had similar issues with any employed position, and also that you've spent most of your working life self employed.

Would your skill set permit you to consider returning to self employment in some capacity, on your own terms and with enough flexibility to allow you to travel and enjoy life more? Seems like that would be the best of both worlds by both resolving the parts of work that you hate and also allow you to inflate your lifestyle further without as much concern for market issues eroding your nest egg over the next few decades.

[rocket354]

You've done well setting yourself up for success. I think the FIRE plan sounds tight (I would wait and earn for a few more years and get the mortgage paid off, personally) but I think if you were really clear about what purpose you'd be fulfilling in FIRE, it would likely be a clear decision.

The emotional reasons probably concern me the most. I highly recommend therapy, it's expensive but I think it's one of the best gifts I've ever given myself.

I think traveling the world, reading books, and playing video games will feel amazing for a few years then get old, really fast. Hobbies could certainly help with that but I'm still skeptical for the same reasons you've named lower in your post.

There are so many places to work that are great and things to do that could be more stimulating or stimulating in a different way. So many work configurations that could give you more flexibility to do the things you enjoy, too.

You also mentioned being open to finding a partner and building a relationship, it could be bumpy to build a relationship with someone who is compatible in terms of values, financially, but isn't setup like you, you would then need more saved so your partner could also retire with you (or you would join the workforce again?) I don't think this should dictate too much about your decision because it's a big "what-if" but it feels like an important factor to think hard about. I think it would be much easier to find a partner who is compatible with your approach to finances, and work 5 more years to ensure you both can retire together or near in time, then it would be to find someone and reenter the workforce after a few years of stagnating skills (potential employers would likely treat your long stint away with a lot of suspicion).

If it were me, I would get myself into therapy (which will really help you understand what's underneath the discontent and other surface emotions you've described to us) while I had this higher paying job. Stack more. Work on paying off the mortgage. Then in two years, begin looking for another job that would be a downshift but in any industry vertical I have more of an emotional connection to (like, what sort of social / worldwide problems do you care about?)

I'd work that job or others like it until 50 or 55. That gives you lower stress, keeps you employed and employable, gives you time to sort out what you want partnership wise, and you'll have much more saved for retirement. Your house should also be paid off by then.

I appreciate your input. Therapy might be useful. I've actually done therapy before with poor results. There are a lot more therapists out there than there are good therapists, in my experiences. But the concern for my underlying psychological state is insightful, and something I should perhaps look into.

As for paying off the mortgage, I am really in no rush. My money market account pays twice the interest I'm paying on my mortgage. I would rather just move the remaining balance into the MM account and draw my mortgage payment from there. Maybe one day if/when interest rates drop then I'll consider getting rid of it. But for now, no way.

[rocket354]

I appreciate all responses. I've added my expected SS to the OP; I expect $24k/yr at age 70 if I stop working in six months and never earn another dime.

$24k a year at age 70 seems quite low with that income. Are you sure about those numbers?

Mid 40s is about what I'm shooting for to FIRE. I'm single with low expenses as well.

Yes you can FIRE if you want IMHO if your expenses don't increase by a lot.

Or look into a low stress, easy, part time job? Even a little income per year could really buffer your situation.

Yes, I'm sure about my SS. I've spent most of my adult life at low-to-moderate income levels. Ten years ago, I had barely more than a $0 net worth and was struggling to earn $40k+. It's only the last few years since I got my megacorp job that I had decent income. That is why my 401(k) is so low. I've only been maxing it out for a few years. My taxable is high relative to my other accounts mostly due to RE investing (since divested).

[rocket354]

Is $300 a month a realistic expense for healthcare during the most expensive years coming up? It cheap to insure 35-45, but 45-65 even with Obamacare gets expensive fast.

I rarely see people retiring lean saying oh I got cancer or an autoimmune disease and able to mitigate more expensive treatment or healthcare. If you have an Uber generous budget and backstop or lots of fire retirees have partners or spouses who cover them.

Healthcare reality check at 55-65 would be my concern

Healthcare is my big concern, as well. I don't have any real data for that 55-65 range, just a few anecdotes, and a myriad of "what-if" scenarios.

[rocket354]

Thanks for your feedback. Taking it in order:

I am looking for constructive feedback on any part of my situation: portfolio allocation, planned FIRE date, planned FIRE activities, withdrawal strategy, etc...anything and everything is in play.

First without even trying to crunch the numbers with a $1.7 million dollar net worth if you were somehow forced to retire today and could never work again as a single person in your mid 40s you could somehow make things work if you never worked again.

Agreed. My primary life goal the last few years was to put myself in position so that if I lost my job tomorrow I would not ever have to work again. I have succeeded in that, and it is quite liberating.

The problem is that you are budgeting for a pretty frugal retirement so you don't have a lot of margin for error. If you retire you will also have a lot more time to spend money on things like hobbies and travel so your spending could be higher than expected.

Agreed. My current spend has been in the $36-42k range. Add in allocations for lumpy expenses and I'm at $45-50k. My retirement budget allotment is $60k, so I am giving myself an additional $10-15k per year to spend on increased travel and hobbies. Whether that will be enough through my retirement or not I can't say, for the same reasons I couldn't predict at 25 where I was at 35, or at 35 where I am now.

A couple of questions to consider;

1) If you quit your job then how hard would it be to find another job, even if it did not pay as well, if you needed to in a year or even five years? With some jobs like some medical jobs this might be pretty practical but in other fields like some tech fields that might be pretty hard.

I'm in tech management for a non-tech company. I imagine after, say, five years I could find a job but probably at a considerable loss of total comp.

2) What are the chances that you could find part time or seasonal work in your field? If you could find part a part time job which pays well for the next few years you should be able to cover your expected expenses pretty easily which would give you more time for your portfolio to grow, move more money into tax advantaged retirement accounts, and qualify for more Social Security which is calculated on your highest 35 years of earnings.

No real chance of seasonal or part-time work, at least in my field.

3) Have you looked into taking a sabbatical from work for maybe 3 to 6 months? That might allow you time to decompress and get more of a feel about what being retired might be like.

I'm considering it. Once, years ago, I took a 4-month break from my self-employment work. It was great, and I did end up getting somewhat bored. I was far, far, from FI, but I had enough to cover expenses. However, I was too concerned about finances to really do the travelling and such I had envisioned. So I know for sure I'll need to find things to keep me focused and feeling productive/useful. I do have some ideas, but 40-50 years is a long time to "stay busy."

4) Unless I missed it you did not say how much Social Security you can expect to get someday. When you check that on the Social Security web site be sure to change the defaults so that it calculates that based on you retiring early.

$24k at 70. I added it to the OP.

My core expenses I count as $37,200/year, or $3100/mo:

$1300 PITI
$300 utilities, incl cell phone ($20/mo plan, $15/mo replacement cost)
$400 repairs/maintenance
$400 groceries/toiletries/household items
$400 car expenses (currently < $150/mo including gas/maintenance, but allowing for increase as car gets older, and eventual frugal replacements)
$300 healthcare costs

A few things I don't see in that.
1) State and federal income taxes.
2) Prorated costs for things like a replacement car, roof, HVAC system, home remodeling(If you have a 40 year retirement you will likely need to remodel the kitchen and bathrooms at some point.)
3) travel, hobbies, and entertainment expenses
4) Dental bills. (Don't even ask how much I have paid. )

A more realistic target might be more in the range of $50k to $60k

1)Since I will have no income, my taxes should be low and perhaps even 0. Dividends and capital gains mostly, although I plan on doing Roth conversions for my 401(k) as efficiently as possible.

2) Everything you see there includes prorated costs for the items. I could have been more clear, I guess. But I do not currently spend anywhere near $400/month for either repairs/maintenance or for my vehicle expenses. I'm allocating that much in order to cover the big lumpy items like roof replacement and vehicle replacement.

3) Those were my core expenses. My discretionary spend per year has been $8-10k recently.

4) I was lumping that alongside healthcare expenses, but perhaps I should just increase that allocation. Stuff like that is just difficult to pin down with any accuracy.

[rocket354]

I appreciate all responses. I've added my expected SS to the OP; I expect $24k/yr at age 70 if I stop working in six months and never earn another dime.

$24k a year at age 70 seems quite low with that income. Are you sure about those numbers?

That's a good question.

E.g., someone born in 1978 with SS earnings only from 2005 (age 27) through 2023 (age 45) might expect $24K/yr at age 70 in 2048 even if earnings each year were ~44.4% of the maximum SS earnings for that year (so earning $39,950 in 2005, $71,112 in 2023, etc.), assuming
- no increase to the average wage index (likely a very conservative assumption)
- no "haircut" to SS benefits in ~2035 (whether that is likely or not gets into politics so no comment on the likelihood)

Explained above. There were many years in there where I was well below your $39,950 number.

[FiveK]

Explained above. There were many years in there where I was well below your $39,950 number.

Good for you making the jump to where you are now! 'Twas a reasonable question to which you have a reasonable answer.

[rocket354]

You have done very well.

But remember, life changes and you are only half way through it.

When i was in my early 40s, I was starting to think I would be single forever. Fast forward a few decades and I am paying/saving for 2 kids' college educations.

Expenses are not predictable in the long-term. In 2012, I went through our records and calculated exactly how much we spent in a calendar year. I think it was $32k or 34K. It is probably double that now, not counting college expenses.

Once you leave the workforce, it can be very hard to get back in.

If I were you, I would keep the dream alive but give myself more margin of error so you don't lock yourself into a lifestyle. Right now, time is on your side; as soon as you retire that could reverse.

Thanks for your insight. You've really nailed my main concern right on the head. I have enough--more than enough, really--for how my life is now. But my ability to predict what I'll want or need for 40-50 more years is non-existent. I've found I can't predict my life three years out, much less three decades.

On the flip side, however, is the fact that I hear the clock of my own mortality ticking louder and louder with each passing day. If my life ended tomorrow, I would not be satisfied in the slightest with what I've done/accomplished. I need something new, something that isn't logging in and doing someone else's bidding for 40 hrs a week all so I can enjoy a few hours during my weekends, and a few weeks a year at a beach or lake or on a mountain.

I will always be in position where a few more years of work can give me more financial stability and therefore options. But I've had many friends/acquaintances die on me the last few years, and that really has me thinking. If I'm not taking control of my life to enjoy it, what am I doing? I might not ever get the chance.

If not now, when?

[rocket354]

OP, you mostly discussed wanting to retire away from your job rather than retiring to free up time for other activities. You can financially swing it, but I am in agreement with other posters with concern for what you will actually do with your time given your primary motivator. You mentioned that you've had similar issues with any employed position, and also that you've spent most of your working life self employed.

Would your skill set permit you to consider returning to self employment in some capacity, on your own terms and with enough flexibility to allow you to travel and enjoy life more? Seems like that would be the best of both worlds by both resolving the parts of work that you hate and also allow you to inflate your lifestyle further without as much concern for market issues eroding your nest egg over the next few decades.

I would be ecstatic to be self-employed again. However, I do not want to do the things I've done before. Been there, done that. It would have to be something new. That is why I mentioned that my hobbies may possibly turn into profitable endeavors, but I can't assume so. On some level I think I'm hoping that with more time to spend on my hobbies that something will actually blossom from that and allow me to have a fulfilling purpose, possibly even with some income coming in. But with my current work schedule I can't dedicate the hours or the focus to really make that happen. I'm not 25 any more. I can't work all day at one thing then go home and work all evening on other things like I used to. It's one or the other, and then I'm beat.

[sailaway]

Our spending:portfolio ratios are pretty similar, so I hope it works for you!

We don't consider going back to work at lesser salaries as a complete failure, provided we figure it out in our 50s or 60s, not our 70s. As long as you are proactive, you would only need to slow the bleed on your portfolio, rather than build it up again from scratch.

Now, "Go for it!" is easy advice to give, but DH has only gone part time at this point and his income still covers expenses. When friends asks how much longer he is going to work, the only answer we have come up with is "somewhere between two more weeks and two more decades."

[Chadnudj]

I'm not sure non-stressful is the best description. It just isn't overly-stressful. I am able to fit all my work into the standard 40 hrs. But the stress has been increasing as my responsibilities have increased, and as there's been more talk of budget concerns. I do sometimes catch myself thinking of work items while in the shower on the weekends or on vacation, when I never really used to do that.

I'll definitely consider the unpaid sabbatical idea. I'll have to test the political waters in March to see if that's even feasible.

If budget concerns are being expressed, that means there is the possibility of layoffs, and with it severance packages. You should look up great resources on negotiating your own severance package (I think Financial Samurai wrote a whole book on it), which could give you the incentive to stick it through a little longer before retiring. (If I were you, I'd give it 2-3 more years, as is, just for the extra cushion, while also exploring the sabattical idea).

[beachtech]

I need something new, something that isn't logging in and doing someone else's bidding for 40 hrs a week all so I can enjoy a few hours during my weekends, and a few weeks a year at a beach or lake or on a mountain.

Just curious, would you be happier if you asked to switch your schedule down to 32 hours, 4 days a week? That dramatically increases the weekend/workday ratio (reward/cost, perhaps?) by +87.5%; from 0.4 (2/5) up to 0.75 (3/4).

Or work remotely from a beach/lake/mountain?

The FI portfolio gives you the ability to negotiate accommodations that others might be afraid to ask for, since you’re already prepared to walk away.

[jjunk]

I'm in the "go for it" camp. Another thing you can not predict is your health and how long it will last. I"m turning 50 this year. 5 years ago when I started thinking about FIRE at 45, I was in tremendous shape and was running 100mi/wk. I also worked 60+hrs at a super high stress job. 5 years later, I've had my right hip replaced and it didnt go well. Surgically my implant is perfectly done but I can barely walk for more than 30 mins without being in pain, its destroying my back and I"m in the worst shape of my life. Multiple surgeons have no idea what is wrong but its clear something isnt right, but I'm stuck because there is nothing surgical to do at this point. Just ongoing pain management. However, I now have plenty of money now FIRE but nothing to do with it because I basically sit inside all day (or spend time at the doctor/PT trying to get better). Hopefully this doesnt happen to you in the near future but your body will eventually fail you. Use it now while you can.

As for the future partner aspect. Other responses here make it seem like there isnt a mutual choice in the matter. Find a person who gets you and where you are in life. Its likely to be someone on the same journey and things like money wont be the thorn it can be in other marriages. Sure, if you have kids then that will mess things up, but ask yourself if you really want kids in your 40s. I dont have kids but I definitely wouldnt have wanted them in my 40s. I know plenty of people do but that isnt appealing to me in the least, so make sure you know what you want for large questions like that as it will help ensure you pick the right partner.

Good luck in whatever your decision is.

[0x5da1bc2f]

I appreciate your input. Therapy might be useful. I've actually done therapy before with poor results. There are a lot more therapists out there than there are good therapists, in my experiences. But the concern for my underlying psychological state is insightful, and something I should perhaps look into.

As for paying off the mortgage, I am really in no rush. My money market account pays twice the interest I'm paying on my mortgage. I would rather just move the remaining balance into the MM account and draw my mortgage payment from there. Maybe one day if/when interest rates drop then I'll consider getting rid of it. But for now, no way.

Really good therapists, IMHO, are relational. You have to go "therapist dating" to find a good fit. I put together a list of 7 and did at least a first session with each. I landed on a therapist who, for me, has been a life changing relationship.

Good point regarding paying off the debt, I agree, I suppose that would only make sense if it was an emotional thing but you sound really clear about the financial logic.

[countmein]

It could be hard to stay this frugal for the long haul but nonetheless you should take the leap because it's what you want to do and once you do it, you will be stoked and not for a second want your job back. You can chill for a couple years then reasonably assume your interests will lead to some pleasant way to make a little money later on-- even 20k a year will create a nice cushion. Even if you retired and after a few months hated it because of loneliness or whatever (doubt this will happen), you can go get a new job which you'd need to do anyway if you weren't retiring. So just quit your job already and enjoy the freedom.

[iragg]

OP - we are similar in age, I am retired, and I feel your angst!

Yes, you can pull the plug, IMO. You have more than 45x annual expenses. However, a few points:

1. Like others, I think your issue is your job, not the desire to retire.
2. Pulling the plug without doing a LOT of groundwork pre-retirement - at ANY age - is a recipe for disaster IMO. It takes some people 2 to 3 years to prepare for retirement, especially for younger / FIRE folks.
3. Asking for some extended time off - especially in a way you have medical coverage etc. - will give you a chance to decompress and figure things out. Personally, after about 3 weeks away from my job, assuming I've had no contact with anyone (no calls, no emails), I'm about 95% "good", which is sufficient to think clearly about things. I think if you ask for 10 weeks and end up getting even half that you will be able to work on figuring things out. Ideally do something meditative yet physical like walking the Appalachian Trail. Your job is to figure out if it's the job or just wanting to retire. If it's the former, switch jobs. If its the latter, plan your retirement and pull the plug when best for you.
4. Since your 401K and SS are relatively low, assuming you remain at work, try to maximize your 2023 and 2024 deposits. Continue to do so as long as you remain employed. From what I have seen many retirees wishing to maximize these + taxes in their year of retirement tend to retire around April-May. If you need more quarters for max SS, that's an additional consideration.
5. On the topic of SS - you will have at least 20 years until you're eligible to take it and closer to 30 for an age 70 election. 24K/year in today's $ may be far less given inflation. As SS, to the extent it will exist is your only way to guarantee yourself a COLA adjusted base, what would happen to this sum if you worked another 2 or 3 years at 170K/year while planning out your retirement? I am guessing that number would come up significantly given your relatively low prior wages, which would significantly reduce your overall risk by either allowing you to get enough at age 62 (if you are already deep into your savings at that point), or allowing you an even larger benefit at 70.
6. As another forum member stated - your personal status might change in the future - you never know. Perhaps you willed to support parents or an aging relative ... have you taken these into consideration?
7. I think the best way of looking at the OMY problem (assuming you have done the work to prepare for retirement) is by how much does it reduce the Sequence of Returns risk you face between today and getting SS. If you make 170K, and assuming you pay about 35K in taxes and keep 135 K (between salary and 401K - I've assumed no employer contributions), that's roughly 3.65 years of your current spending, which is not an insignificant amount and would add roughly 8% to your current nest-egg. If you do this for another 2.5 years and retire in April 2026, that's takes you from 20 years before getting 24K SS with 1.7m to (assuming no returns) 18 years from getting likely >30K SS at 62 with ±2m with a much higher percentage of it tax advantaged.
8. Final point - if you will be around 45 and retire in 2026, assuming you ar in decent physical shape and maintain it, you'll still have many great years ahead of you. Only you know your family medical history, so if they all died in their 80s and 90s, you should plan accordingly, as that is your best data.

Good luck!

[azphx1972]

OP, in 2018 I was where you are right now. I was 46 years old with a 1.8M net worth, similar income and expenses, and a job that I dreaded. I presume you posted here because you have some doubts about your numbers, because I also felt the same way at the time.

What I decided to do was downsize my assets (got rid of property that wasn't doing anything), simplified my investments, and accepted a new job opportunity which required a small reduction in pay but allowed me to leave my management role and return to being an individual contributor. I figured that if I didn't like it, I could always quit and fall back on my RE plans. However, the job change made a huge difference in my work satisfaction, and I was able to stay employed through the pandemic, volatile stock market, and current wild inflation. In addition, my net worth has grown significantly during that time so I now feel comfortable pulling the plug if I truly want to, but no longer feel an urgency to do so like I did in 2018.

I guess my advice to you is, realize that you have lots of options at this point and you don't have to marry any of them. You can always try one of them, and switch to something else if you find it not to your liking. That's the whole point of FI, to provide you with options.

[Parkinglotracer]

Mid-40s, single. NW around $1.7MM. About $1.5MM of that is invested. Of liquid assets, about 97% is stocks, 3% cash. Really want to FIRE in about six months. I am looking for constructive feedback on any part of my situation: portfolio allocation, planned FIRE date, planned FIRE activities, withdrawal strategy, etc...anything and everything is in play.

Taxable: $890k -- about $600k in VTI (total market), about $290k in VBR/VIOV (small-cap value)
Roth IRA: $330k -- about $180k in VBR (small-cap value), $80k in VOE/VTV (mid/large value), $70k in VSS/VWO/VXUS (small-cap/emerging market/total international)
Traditional 401(k): $230k -- about $100k in international (state street, but < 0.4% fee), $70k in VOO (S&P 500 fund), $60k in VXF (extended market)
HSA: $30k -- $16k in VTI (total market), $14k in VXF (extended market)
Checking: $15k, earns 4%
Emergency Fund/Cash reserves: $25k in vanguard money market, currently earning 5.28%

Overall net fees is < 0.1%.

Other assets:
Own home, worth about $450k, with $255k, 2.625% mortgage. I count this as $150k toward my NW because I back out 10% of total home value for transaction costs. Total PITI is right around $1300/mo.

Car/personal items of value: $30k or so. Car is < $10k of that, an 11-year-old compact sedan still under 100k miles. I'm hoping to get to 20 years with it. Drives like new.

Reasoning for allocation: I am limited in my available low-cost fund selection for my 401(k) and HSA, so I have what's available. I use my taxable and Roth to get my overall portfolio allocation closer to what I want, which is a value tilt, a small-cap tilt, and between 10 and 20% international, with a small-cap/EM tilt within my international allocation. I like international in my tax-deferred accounts for tax purposes.

My TC at my current job is about $170k, including reliable bonus, 401(k) match, and employer HSA contribution. This may actually increase next year (beyond typical 3% raise) due to my expecting a bonus that would be a larger percentage of a larger base salary (recent promotion), but let's use this number as a safe estimate of my earning potential.

My annual spending the last two years, including all housing expenses, was $36k in 2021, $38k in 2022, and looking like I should finish 2023 under $42k. The increase has been from lifestyle inflation, as I've been allowing myself to eat out more and to travel more. I've had no major expenses the last few years (no new roof, car, HVAC, anything of that sort).

My core expenses I count as $37,200/year, or $3100/mo:

$1300 PITI
$300 utilities, incl cell phone ($20/mo plan, $15/mo replacement cost)
$400 repairs/maintenance (allocation)
$400 groceries/toiletries/household items
$400 car expenses (currently < $150/mo including gas/maintenance, but allowing for increase as car gets older, and eventual frugal replacements)
$300 healthcare costs

That includes utilities/food/car all at my current (very acceptable) level of consumption. I recognize that healthcare costs will probably increase quite a bit, so perhaps my $300/month allocation is low, but even with some recent health issues I've been well under that, and my ACA estimate is pretty close to 0, so I think this is a good number for the time being. Who knows what I should assume by the time I'm 60, however.

Due to not paying any recent lumpy expenses, that means my recent discretionary spending has been between $8-10k per year. This would be mostly travel, with some increased eating out and some consumer goods thrown in (I bought an xbox last year, for example).

All told, my annual spend including allocations for lumpy expenses would be estimated to be between $45-50k/year, with 20% of that considered discretionary, although of course if push came to shove I could downsize my housing, eat less expensive groceries, go back to mowing my own lawn, etc, etc.

My withdrawal strategy will be a fixed withdrawal percentage with a floor. I will withdraw 4% of the portfolio (so, would be $60,000 today) but will have an inflation-adjusted floor of 3% of the starting value--so $45,000 no matter what, even with a big market drop. This would give me $10-15k more spending than I currently do to engage in more traveling/food--or to buffer me from increased health costs. It would also give me a reasonable floor, under which I'm already living, to endure tougher times. In back-testing, this strategy succeeded 100% of the time over 40-year periods, with the worst outcome retaining 60% of the starting portfolio's value, and in over 90% of cases the portfolio was higher than its beginning value.

Reasons for wanting to FIRE: I really don't like my job. It isn't the most stressful or time-consuming job, but it's a thorn in my side, and with the recent promotion it's more stressful than it had been. I don't enjoy doing it, and don't get any personal satisfaction out of it. I feel trapped as every aspect of my life is controlled by my job. Weekends are fun for 1.5 days as I can be free again, but then by about this time on Sundays I'm getting those Sunday Scaries and just loathing the though of logging back in and dealing with all the work items I really don't care the slightest about. I would much rather spend my time relaxed, happy, and pursuing hobbies. I don't think "getting a new job" is really an answer. I spent most of my adult life self-employed and the whole "working for someone else" thing in my experience is the same (or worse than my current situation) no matter where I go. I do have some hobbies that could produce some income, but I have to assume they will be expenses in retirement to be safe. But I really do want time to do the things I enjoy.

Reasons for being concerned: I'm worried about the current market environment. Even if portfolios at my current planned withdrawal rate have always survived 30 years, 1) I'm possibly looking at a 40-50 year retirement, and, 2) there are many near-failures that would have been stressful and probably caused a failure of my retirement--for example, if I'd retired in 1973 with a 4% spend then I'd be down to 40% of my portfolio remaining by the end of 1981. Even though in hindsight the portfolio in that situation survived, I'm willing to bet that I'd have gone back to work at some point, probably at a lower comp level. So, ultimately, I feel like I should continue to make hay while the sun shines rather than risk being in a tough spot 10 or 20 years down the road. As well, expenses at age 70+ are a concern. Will I have enough to afford all care I might need at that age? And, then, of course, I do worry I'm retiring "from" work more than retiring "to" something. Will I get bored after 3 months of playing video games and reading books? Will I get tired of travelling after a year of going around the world (one of my plans)? Then what? Also, what if I want to take up more expensive hobbies? Or I find a partner/have a kid? There are lots of what-ifs that can increase my expenses.

Reasons for retiring in six months: Retiring after Q12024 would allow me to max out Roth IRA and 401(k) for the year, get my annual bonus (paid in Q1) and also to get some income at the lowest tax rates--after standard deductions and 401(k) contributions I would owe very little taxes on the money I earned to that point, so it seems a very efficient time to leave.

Edit to add: I expect about $24k/yr in SS at age 70 if I were to hang it up in six months and never work again.

Thoughts on my situation and plan?

Congrats on your success to date and your ability to live beneath your means and save.

I think your asset allocation is too heavily weighted towards equities in case of a market downturn especially if you plan on relying on that lump sum to retire early for decades. I’d protect from a market turn down by having some more fixed income / bonds.

I retired early at 50 then went back to work for 7 years. Leave yourself an out to go back to work in case you get a little bored. Can you reduce hours or consult? Can you start your own business?

Travel is expensive - you won’t be able to travel much on the budget you have. Part time job working throwing baggage for an airline or similar may open up some free flight privileges.

We are all searching for what gets us exciting about waking up in the morning. It’s different for each person. Family, friends, church, volunteering, writing, performing, helping others - you have solved part of the financial puzzle of life - maybe joining a workout group at y, running / walking group, fun Pickleball league or taking a fun class or musical lesson cab help you add more meaning to your life outside work.

Whatever you decide - go for it - just consider what will make your life most satisfying for the long run.

[Tamalak]

Hell yeah I'd FIRE. I'm 40, 1.1 mil, 120k net compensation, ~60k expenses including the health insurance I don't pay for (would be very easy to cut 10-20k) and planning to FIRE at 1.5 mil. I feel like the OP is just me 5 years in the future

[dbr]

The risk in plans/intentions like this is not that the financial numbers won't work out but that the cap on what you are limiting yourself to spend will not work out. One supposes the answer to that is to simply return to earning some income. I do think you should consider the contingencies of how you would manage severe or long term illness, disabling injuries or other disabilities, and so on. Also, in some fraction of scenarios your portfolio will indeed grow over time and effectively outgrow old age concerns, but in other scenarios that growth may not materialize and you will enter old age with depleted resources. One should also consider the impact on SS of bailing out from creditable work early on because SS may be your primary source of income after age 60-70. But you get to decide all these things.

[funxional]

You have kept your living expenses low, which is great. However, it means that you have less wiggle room to cut out expenses if necessary. I would look at ways to improve your job quality, take an extended leave as suggested above, or find an alternative position that might improve your quality of life.

Adding even 1-2 years earnings is a big difference and aside from dumpster fire companies I expect a new position would be interesting for at least that long.

I agree that another year or two always adds more cushion. But that's the problem. I was in position to potentially pull the plus two years ago. But OMY kept me going. And in another year or two, it will still be the case that yet another year or two will make me that much more secure.

I do have current spend capacity of $60k with base expenses down around $37k, so that is still a decent amount of wiggle room. But I do hear you. That $23k/year of wiggle room could easily be taken up by a recurring medical need, and/or a kid, all while the market is down.

If there is a possibility of children that's a strong reason to stay employed abit longer and of course possibility of medical expenses. A paid off mortgage gives you a lot of financial cushion also.

I like the other posts that are focusing on your dissatisfaction and then thinking about retirement. I would start to peruse other activities that you might want to do in retirement. If you are already financially secure you have the leverage to request things like additional time off (possibly unpaid). Start experimenting with you want to do in retirement and when you find your groove I think it will be more clear when it is time to leave.

I feel that a job is just that, 9-5. Sometimes it's rewarding, usually it's not terrible, but at the end of the day it will be work for most people. If the job is leaving you burnt out and unable to do anything but decompress after work that is one thing but I don't get that feeling from your post. If you can't find fulfilling things to do after work or on the weekend how will filling the whole day help. You want to retire to something not from something.

I am also in my mid 40s. At 40 I set an arbitrary goal to retire at 45 and have been working on a process since. That includes tightening my finances and getting a better understanding of post-retirement finances (this forum) as well as looking at what I want to do when retired. Work continues and I have changed jobs to keep things fresh and keep my career going until I am ready to pull the plug. Even though I generally enjoy my work I am more focused on what I will be doing in the future and am starting yo gradually live that life. More travel, more activities, some more time off. I still get glowing reviews and am productive (not quiet quitting) but work is something that I do in between other things.

If work starts getting in the way of my other activities then I will really know that it's time to retire. Until then I continue to save and prepare.

[rocket354]

I need something new, something that isn't logging in and doing someone else's bidding for 40 hrs a week all so I can enjoy a few hours during my weekends, and a few weeks a year at a beach or lake or on a mountain.

Just curious, would you be happier if you asked to switch your schedule down to 32 hours, 4 days a week? That dramatically increases the weekend/workday ratio (reward/cost, perhaps?) by +87.5%; from 0.4 (2/5) up to 0.75 (3/4).

Or work remotely from a beach/lake/mountain?

The FI portfolio gives you the ability to negotiate accommodations that others might be afraid to ask for, since you’re already prepared to walk away.

I don't think a 32hr week is an option for me. I mean, I can ask, but I feel like doing so would signal reduced focus/interest in my job and may result in reduced raise/bonus for however long I choose to stay. I do agree in general that I have more ability to take risks with those sorts of things.

[rocket354]

I'm in the "go for it" camp. Another thing you can not predict is your health and how long it will last. I"m turning 50 this year. 5 years ago when I started thinking about FIRE at 45, I was in tremendous shape and was running 100mi/wk. I also worked 60+hrs at a super high stress job. 5 years later, I've had my right hip replaced and it didnt go well. Surgically my implant is perfectly done but I can barely walk for more than 30 mins without being in pain, its destroying my back and I"m in the worst shape of my life. Multiple surgeons have no idea what is wrong but its clear something isnt right, but I'm stuck because there is nothing surgical to do at this point. Just ongoing pain management. However, I now have plenty of money now FIRE but nothing to do with it because I basically sit inside all day (or spend time at the doctor/PT trying to get better). Hopefully this doesnt happen to you in the near future but your body will eventually fail you. Use it now while you can.

As for the future partner aspect. Other responses here make it seem like there isnt a mutual choice in the matter. Find a person who gets you and where you are in life. Its likely to be someone on the same journey and things like money wont be the thorn it can be in other marriages. Sure, if you have kids then that will mess things up, but ask yourself if you really want kids in your 40s. I dont have kids but I definitely wouldnt have wanted them in my 40s. I know plenty of people do but that isnt appealing to me in the least, so make sure you know what you want for large questions like that as it will help ensure you pick the right partner.

Good luck in whatever your decision is.

Thank you. I appreciate your insights. You are spot-on. I hope your health issues can be resolved.

[rocket354]

It could be hard to stay this frugal for the long haul but nonetheless you should take the leap because it's what you want to do and once you do it, you will be stoked and not for a second want your job back. You can chill for a couple years then reasonably assume your interests will lead to some pleasant way to make a little money later on-- even 20k a year will create a nice cushion. Even if you retired and after a few months hated it because of loneliness or whatever (doubt this will happen), you can go get a new job which you'd need to do anyway if you weren't retiring. So just quit your job already and enjoy the freedom.

I've pretty much always been this frugal, so it isn't difficult. A lot of that was borne of necessity due to lower income, but even in my lowest-income years I still made sure to max my Roth IRA.

You've said basically exactly what I want to hear, for better or for worse. Last night when I was thinking about what it would be like if I didn't have to work today I was grinning ear-to-ear. The emotional side is ready to be done--has been ready for a while. It's the pragmatic/rational side that keeps spurring me on: you need more cushion! you need to collect your next bonus! you need to wait out this current market a little while longer!

[rocket354]

OP, in 2018 I was where you are right now. I was 46 years old with a 1.8M net worth, similar income and expenses, and a job that I dreaded. I presume you posted here because you have some doubts about your numbers, because I also felt the same way at the time.

What I decided to do was downsize my assets (got rid of property that wasn't doing anything), simplified my investments, and accepted a new job opportunity which required a small reduction in pay but allowed me to leave my management role and return to being an individual contributor. I figured that if I didn't like it, I could always quit and fall back on my RE plans. However, the job change made a huge difference in my work satisfaction, and I was able to stay employed through the pandemic, volatile stock market, and current wild inflation. In addition, my net worth has grown significantly during that time so I now feel comfortable pulling the plug if I truly want to, but no longer feel an urgency to do so like I did in 2018.

I guess my advice to you is, realize that you have lots of options at this point and you don't have to marry any of them. You can always try one of them, and switch to something else if you find it not to your liking. That's the whole point of FI, to provide you with options.

Thanks. Are you willing to share specifics about what role you switched from, and what role you switched into? PM is fine.

For me, I've not really enjoyed any IC or management role I've had, so I'm just skeptical that any job change will just end up being "more of the same." But if there's fulfilling, positively challenging, and flexible roles out there then I'm all ears.

[rocket354]

If there is a possibility of children that's a strong reason to stay employed abit longer and of course possibility of medical expenses. A paid off mortgage gives you a lot of financial cushion also.

I like the other posts that are focusing on your dissatisfaction and then thinking about retirement. I would start to peruse other activities that you might want to do in retirement. If you are already financially secure you have the leverage to request things like additional time off (possibly unpaid). Start experimenting with you want to do in retirement and when you find your groove I think it will be more clear when it is time to leave.

I feel that a job is just that, 9-5. Sometimes it's rewarding, usually it's not terrible, but at the end of the day it will be work for most people. If the job is leaving you burnt out and unable to do anything but decompress after work that is one thing but I don't get that feeling from your post. If you can't find fulfilling things to do after work or on the weekend how will filling the whole day help. You want to retire to something not from something.

I am also in my mid 40s. At 40 I set an arbitrary goal to retire at 45 and have been working on a process since. That includes tightening my finances and getting a better understanding of post-retirement finances (this forum) as well as looking at what I want to do when retired. Work continues and I have changed jobs to keep things fresh and keep my career going until I am ready to pull the plug. Even though I generally enjoy my work I am more focused on what I will be doing in the future and am starting yo gradually live that life. More travel, more activities, some more time off. I still get glowing reviews and am productive (not quiet quitting) but work is something that I do in between other things.

If work starts getting in the way of my other activities then I will really know that it's time to retire. Until then I continue to save and prepare.

My job does sometimes leave me unable to do much other than decompress. I do my hobbies in the evenings and enjoy them. Anything that gets my mind off my day job is a tremendous boon to my psychology. But at the same time sometimes I am afraid to enjoy my hobbies too much because then time flies and before I know it I'm back at work.

Each Friday the first thing I do after logging off is to go take a long nap. I'd like to just go off and do something but by the end of a long week of working and doing things in the evenings I'm just exhausted and need to clear my head. So my weekends typically start after 8pm on Friday (and I'm usually still eyeing my bed by 11pm).

There is probably some psychological framing I can do about my approach to work so that it doesn't drain me as much as it is. Perhaps that will help me endure the next six months (or, if successful, even a bit longer). But currently, the job is very much in the way of what I'd rather be doing.

Also, I do find my hobbies enjoyable and fulfilling...I'm just concerned that they might not be as fulfilling as needed for a 40+ year timeframe.

[funxional]

If there is a possibility of children that's a strong reason to stay employed abit longer and of course possibility of medical expenses. A paid off mortgage gives you a lot of financial cushion also.

I like the other posts that are focusing on your dissatisfaction and then thinking about retirement. I would start to peruse other activities that you might want to do in retirement. If you are already financially secure you have the leverage to request things like additional time off (possibly unpaid). Start experimenting with you want to do in retirement and when you find your groove I think it will be more clear when it is time to leave.

I feel that a job is just that, 9-5. Sometimes it's rewarding, usually it's not terrible, but at the end of the day it will be work for most people. If the job is leaving you burnt out and unable to do anything but decompress after work that is one thing but I don't get that feeling from your post. If you can't find fulfilling things to do after work or on the weekend how will filling the whole day help. You want to retire to something not from something.

I am also in my mid 40s. At 40 I set an arbitrary goal to retire at 45 and have been working on a process since. That includes tightening my finances and getting a better understanding of post-retirement finances (this forum) as well as looking at what I want to do when retired. Work continues and I have changed jobs to keep things fresh and keep my career going until I am ready to pull the plug. Even though I generally enjoy my work I am more focused on what I will be doing in the future and am starting yo gradually live that life. More travel, more activities, some more time off. I still get glowing reviews and am productive (not quiet quitting) but work is something that I do in between other things.

If work starts getting in the way of my other activities then I will really know that it's time to retire. Until then I continue to save and prepare.

My job does sometimes leave me unable to do much other than decompress. I do my hobbies in the evenings and enjoy them. Anything that gets my mind off my day job is a tremendous boon to my psychology. But at the same time sometimes I am afraid to enjoy my hobbies too much because then time flies and before I know it I'm back at work.

Each Friday the first thing I do after logging off is to go take a long nap. I'd like to just go off and do something but by the end of a long week of working and doing things in the evenings I'm just exhausted and need to clear my head. So my weekends typically start after 8pm on Friday (and I'm usually still eyeing my bed by 11pm).

There is probably some psychological framing I can do about my approach to work so that it doesn't drain me as much as it is. Perhaps that will help me endure the next six months (or, if successful, even a bit longer). But currently, the job is very much in the way of what I'd rather be doing.

Also, I do find my hobbies enjoyable and fulfilling...I'm just concerned that they might not be as fulfilling as needed for a 40+ year timeframe.

I missed that from your first post. I would suggest looking for another job. Since you are already close to retirement and comfortable with your financial independence that can help select a job. You won't be as fixated on compensation, can possibly consider other locations, and if it doesn't work out you're already thinking about retiring so it wouldn't be a huge leap or risk.

You can also talk to your company about your challenges with workload and burnout. If you were reasonably happy with the workload and position before it's worth exploring how to continue even with less salary or bonus. I was promoted into a position that caused me to burn out (before I was in a position to retire). At that point it's hard to think about anything more than just getting out of the situation.

I would try to find another position or changes to your current position which will give you a fresh perspective, hopefully better workload, and some space to think about retirement without the weight of a position that is making you very unhappy. The good news is that if you can't come up with a different/better answer you are in a good financial position

[bltn]

Interesting that you feel your biological clock ticking in your 40 s. I didnt feel mine ticking until I was in my 60 s.

In your position I would evaluate my finances in the following way. I would use a 3% wr to give me security over a 40 year retirement. If I wanted to be adventurous and maintain flexibility in my spending, I might consider 3.5% withdrawals annually, no more. On an investment total of 1.5 million, that s 45-52.5 thousand a year. Before taxes, which should be small. Approximately 4,000 a month.

If I m doing as well as you are right now at your age, having worked my way up to a very nice income, I d work an additional 4-5 years to bump my savings up to 2 million dollars or a bit more depending on the markets. That would give me about an extra thousand a month, which would allow me a better lifestyle and more control during market corrections.

With a retirement goal so near, the next five years would be relatively easy for me.

Congratulations on your accumulation so far.

[jjj_22]

I think you'd be fine to quit your job and take some indefinite time off, possibly forever. Mid 40's is pretty young, so I'd just plan to take as much time off as you like. I tried this once, early 40s, and it was amazing for 18 months, then I got restless, found an interesting opportunity to go back to work, and did. So plan to be flexible.

As for your plan, why start off withdrawing 4% when that's very much more than your projected spend for this year? It makes sense to add budget for health care, but it'll be hard to know how much you'll want to spend once you're not working because it's a huge lifestyle change. I found I spent less (except for healthcare) when I stopped working because I was happier to enjoy the simple free/cheap but enjoyable parts of life. But this will be different for everyone, so give it a year to get comfortable with your non-working lifestyle and see where you really want to spend your money, with your current spend as a kind of baseline.

My other comment would be that 97/3 is an very aggressive allocation for a plan that has some risk. Risk tolerance is very personal, but at $1.5M, if the market drops 25% you have $1.125M and your floor withdrawal of 45K is 4%, which sounds like a lowish balance and high withdrawal rate for someone so young. If you're comfortable with that, that's fine, but think about it. Bonds even have palatable yields now, which wasn't true a couple years ago.

Good luck, be flexible, and enjoy your newfound freedom when it arrives!

[bearwithbear]

OP,

Probably have enough saved. But I think the best choice is to find another job. Maybe every few years change jobs. Keep meeting new people and learning new things. If you have enough to FIRE then compensation is less an issue but you may find that by changing jobs you get paid more.
Think of your job as something you do with a portion of your time. Eventually you may want that time for something else, but for now it is good to meet new people and learn new things. And not worrying if you have enough to FIRE.

Best,
Bear

[azphx1972]

I guess my advice to you is, realize that you have lots of options at this point and you don't have to marry any of them. You can always try one of them, and switch to something else if you find it not to your liking. That's the whole point of FI, to provide you with options.

Thanks. Are you willing to share specifics about what role you switched from, and what role you switched into? PM is fine.

For me, I've not really enjoyed any IC or management role I've had, so I'm just skeptical that any job change will just end up being "more of the same." But if there's fulfilling, positively challenging, and flexible roles out there then I'm all ears.

I switched from managing an IT application support team to just being an application support specialist (which freed me from things I hated like boring management meetings and having to deal with personnel drama), but I don't know if that is relevant because everyone is different. My point was that if you hate your current job and are uncertain about your numbers, retiring isn't the only available option. You can try literally anything else until you're more confident with your numbers, knowing that you can fall back on retirement should you find that you truly cannot tolerate any job.

[Katietsu]

On the flip side, however, is the fact that I hear the clock of my own mortality ticking louder and louder with each passing day.

I do really get this. Most of us are not Tom Brady. But you mentioned a couple times that a typical day in what appears to be a largely sedentary job leaves you physically exhausted. This is more a description that I hear from my circle now approaching 60 not when we were 45. At 45, it was only the friends who had jobs that expected 12 hour days or were “sandwiched” with childcare and ailing parent duties who were looking for new ways to work. I am wondering if there is a component of this that should be addressed with health related lifestyle or medical changes.

[London]

We pretend on this board that we’re making 30 year decisions but we’re all making a series of one day decisions. Give it a try. If you don’t like it or decide you need more money, go back to work. It’s not that dramatic. You’ll probably not make your old salary if you go back. But who cares, you’re accepting making nothing in the retire scenario.