What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

[PatrickA5]

I've gone pretty simple. AAA Signature Visa for gas, Costco/Sam's and Grocery stores (3%-5%) and Citi Double (2%) for everything else. I will occasionally do the Discover 5% categories especially Amazon in Q4.

The older I get, the less I feel I need to totally/over optimize things for a few bucks here and there.

You and me both. I have a spreadsheet that analyzes how much I save using various cards vs just putting everything on my Fidelity 2% Visa.

I have Walmart 5%, Amazon 5% and Chase Sapphire and Freedom cards. The Sapphire Preferred doesn't beat the Fidelity 2%, but I have to keep it in order to transfer to travel partners. The other cards do beat the 2%, but in terms of actual cash only by a few hundred dollars a year.

DW and I are finally out of the 5/24 jail, so I'll do another round of bonuses over the next year or two and then probably call it quits. I will say that we've saved many thousands $$$ on hotels/airfare/cash back over the last 20 years, but I'm getting up there in age and travel will probably drop off at some point. I'm pretty much into simplicity these days.

[michaeljc70]

I've gone pretty simple. AAA Signature Visa for gas, Costco/Sam's and Grocery stores (3%-5%) and Citi Double (2%) for everything else. I will occasionally do the Discover 5% categories especially Amazon in Q4.

The older I get, the less I feel I need to totally/over optimize things for a few bucks here and there.

You and me both. I have a spreadsheet that analyzes how much I save using various cards vs just putting everything on my Fidelity 2% Visa.

I have Walmart 5%, Amazon 5% and Chase Sapphire and Freedom cards. The Sapphire Preferred doesn't beat the Fidelity 2%, but I have to keep it in order to transfer to travel partners. The other cards do beat the 2%, but in terms of actual cash only by a few hundred dollars a year.

DW and I are finally out of the 5/24 jail, so I'll do another round of bonuses over the next year or two and then probably call it quits. I will say that we've saved many thousands $$$ on hotels/airfare/cash back over the last 20 years, but I'm getting up there in age and travel will probably drop off at some point. I'm pretty much into simplicity these days.

I pushed the bonuses for a long time. They seem to get stricter all the time and lower the values (especially devaluing airline miles). They've eliminated the first year's annual fee being free on some. I am also making more money on brokerage bonuses (currently waiting on a $2500 one) which takes little effort. I think I am only at 1/24 so I might go for a credit card bonus or two if I find something appealing.

[EnjoyIt]

I've gone pretty simple. AAA Signature Visa for gas, Costco/Sam's and Grocery stores (3%-5%) and Citi Double (2%) for everything else. I will occasionally do the Discover 5% categories especially Amazon in Q4.

The older I get, the less I feel I need to totally/over optimize things for a few bucks here and there.

Optimizing: even when I know it’s not not much, I sometimes can’t help it. For example, I am contemplating buying $1000 worth of gift cards at a gas station to pay some of my taxes. I don’t remember the math, but the whole process will net me maybe $50-$60 in profit.

If I’m at the gas station pumping gas anyways then why not buy the cards. And, then when I get home, log in and pay some taxes?

It’s a sickness.

[Morik]

I've gone pretty simple. AAA Signature Visa for gas, Costco/Sam's and Grocery stores (3%-5%) and Citi Double (2%) for everything else. I will occasionally do the Discover 5% categories especially Amazon in Q4.

The older I get, the less I feel I need to totally/over optimize things for a few bucks here and there.

Optimizing: even when I know it’s not not much, I sometimes can’t help it. For example, I am contemplating buying $1000 worth of gift cards at a gas station to pay some of my taxes. I don’t remember the math, but the whole process will net me maybe $50-$60 in profit.

If I’m at the gas station pumping gas anyways then why not buy the cards. And, then when I get home, log in and pay some taxes?

It’s a sickness.

Hey, if you enjoy it (pun intended), its fun AND profit!
Seriously though, I find it entertaining/satisfying to eek out little bits here and there with lowish effort. And its a little diversion that pays you, instead of you having to pay for entertainment.

[EnjoyIt]

I've gone pretty simple. AAA Signature Visa for gas, Costco/Sam's and Grocery stores (3%-5%) and Citi Double (2%) for everything else. I will occasionally do the Discover 5% categories especially Amazon in Q4.

The older I get, the less I feel I need to totally/over optimize things for a few bucks here and there.

Optimizing: even when I know it’s not not much, I sometimes can’t help it. For example, I am contemplating buying $1000 worth of gift cards at a gas station to pay some of my taxes. I don’t remember the math, but the whole process will net me maybe $50-$60 in profit.

If I’m at the gas station pumping gas anyways then why not buy the cards. And, then when I get home, log in and pay some taxes?

It’s a sickness.

Hey, if you enjoy it (pun intended), its fun AND profit!
Seriously though, I find it entertaining/satisfying to eek out little bits here and there with lowish effort. And its a little diversion that pays you, instead of you having to pay for entertainment.

I do enjoy it. But it is still a sickness.
I haven't done it in a while but there have been times where I have had $2k-$3k in visa gift cards that I slowly use on natural spend. One time I had a significant purchase from home depot that I knew would have 0 chance of returning. I bought if I remember $18k home depot gift cards using cash ink cash from office office supply stores for the 5 chase points that I redeemed at 1.5 cents per point back when they were offering that on the chase sapphire reserve. Effectively it gave me. $1350 back on the purchase compared to $472.50 I would have gotten with my Bank of America 2.625% cash back card.

[Chisum trail]

Morning. Brand new to this forum. Can someone explain the downside to opening many credit cards for the bonuses? Or link me to a chat that already explains this questions. My credit score is above 810 and has been for many years. Zero chance of needing a loan in the future. I know opening many new cc accounts tend to lower your score, but why should I care. Thanks.

[kojima]

Morning. Brand new to this forum. Can someone explain the downside to opening many credit cards for the bonuses? Or link me to a chat that already explains this questions. My credit score is above 810 and has been for many years. Zero chance of needing a loan in the future. I know opening many new cc accounts tend to lower your score, but why should I care. Thanks.

With Chase you can only open 5 credit cards across all issuers in a 24 month period. I have also heard some stories where some banks will close your account based on high velocity.

And I don't think opening many new CC accounts tends to lower your score in the long run. I know people with over 20+ open CC's and their score is 800+.

Another downside would be having to handle all the different cards, annual fees, etc. It definitely can complicate spending when some people prefer the simplicity of having only a few cards.

[michaeljc70]

Morning. Brand new to this forum. Can someone explain the downside to opening many credit cards for the bonuses? Or link me to a chat that already explains this questions. My credit score is above 810 and has been for many years. Zero chance of needing a loan in the future. I know opening many new cc accounts tend to lower your score, but why should I care. Thanks.

With Chase you can only open 5 credit cards across all issuers in a 24 month period. I have also heard some stories where some banks will close your account based on high velocity.

And I don't think opening many new CC accounts tends to lower your score in the long run. I know people with over 20+ open CC's and their score is 800+.

Another downside would be having to handle all the different cards, annual fees, etc. It definitely can complicate spending when some people prefer the simplicity of having only a few cards.

Some also limit bonuses by time period and you won't know until much later if you don't pay attention. For example, some say only one bonus per 3 or 5 years per card.

[ResearchMed]

Morning. Brand new to this forum. Can someone explain the downside to opening many credit cards for the bonuses? Or link me to a chat that already explains this questions. My credit score is above 810 and has been for many years. Zero chance of needing a loan in the future. I know opening many new cc accounts tend to lower your score, but why should I care. Thanks.

Welcome to Bogleheads!

I think the "problems" with opening "many" credit cards are mostly if one opens many in a short time. That could indicate that someone has an urgent spending problem or is going to need to max out several cards because one limit wouldn't be enough, etc.

But opening them slowly would probably give very small credit score changes and very temporary ones at that. Your score will recover, and possibly slightly higher due to higher credit limit IF you don't also up the percentage of credit used. (But you'll be paying all of it off every month, right? )

Either get cards with no annual fee (AF), or remember to cancel those in the future.
We always keep a card through one AF cycle (the first year usually being free). That may - or may not - help with being detected as fast churning.

We also wait for offers with relatively high bonuses, such as 100k points, and maybe even with an extra bonus for referring someone (spouse comes in handy here!).

In terms of any AFs, Chase allows point balances to be transferred to a spouse (other partner??) with *no* cost. So we plan to take turns opening one of those, transfer the points to other, then close card. Wait. Open another Chase card transfer points back, and alternate. (But *slowly*, hoping not to set off any churning alarms, etc.)

Make *sure* not to let a card expire with points still unused, and use the card often enough to keep the points. They usually cannot be clawed back if they have expired.

We tend to use our points for premium (business or first) flights on top international airlines.
Others prefer cash back.

RM

[DrGrnTum]

Morning. Brand new to this forum. Can someone explain the downside to opening many credit cards for the bonuses? Or link me to a chat that already explains this questions. My credit score is above 810 and has been for many years. Zero chance of needing a loan in the future. I know opening many new cc accounts tend to lower your score, but why should I care. Thanks.

If you are looking for a downside argument, you can check out Dave Ramsey.
You can find him on Youtube.
I would venture to guess that most of the people that contribute to this tread believe his arguments are bogus.
If you spend some time educating yourself, credit cards are a tool to help you get "Cash Back" or help finance your vacations.

[kojima]

Morning. Brand new to this forum. Can someone explain the downside to opening many credit cards for the bonuses? Or link me to a chat that already explains this questions. My credit score is above 810 and has been for many years. Zero chance of needing a loan in the future. I know opening many new cc accounts tend to lower your score, but why should I care. Thanks.

If you are looking for a downside argument, you can check out Dave Ramsey.
You can find him on Youtube.
I would venture to guess that most of the people that contribute to this tread believe his arguments are bogus.
If you spend some time educating yourself, credit cards are a tool to help you get "Cash Back" or help finance your vacations.

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Dave Ramsey's argument is more targeted towards the very financially irresponsible group who open credit cards and rack up insane amounts of debt that they cannot pay off. Considering this persons credit score is above 810, I would assume he is not Dave Ramsey's target and he or she can handle any new CC's.... hopefully

[Lastrun]

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Dave Ramsey's argument is more targeted towards the very financially irresponsible group who open credit cards and rack up insane amounts of debt that they cannot pay off. Considering this persons credit score is above 810, I would assume he is not Dave Ramsey's target and he or she can handle any new CC's.... hopefully

I think Dave Ramsey is against credit cards period, responsible use or not. See for example this and the discussion of his “truths” even for those that pay their balance off monthly: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/c ... rd-rewards

I am not promoting this, just clarifying, as I use my credit cards for virtually all of my spending and get thousands of dollars of cash back each year,

[sailaway]

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Dave Ramsey's argument is more targeted towards the very financially irresponsible group who open credit cards and rack up insane amounts of debt that they cannot pay off. Considering this persons credit score is above 810, I would assume he is not Dave Ramsey's target and he or she can handle any new CC's.... hopefully

I think Dave Ramsey is against credit cards period, responsible use or not. See for example this and the discussion of his “truths” even for those that pay their balance off monthly: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/c ... rd-rewards

I am not promoting this, just clarifying, as I use my credit cards for virtually all of my spending and get thousands of dollars of cash back each year,

He has basically claimed that millionaires don't use cc.

I wish we could put more of our spending through cc. Our marina isn't set up for any kind of electronic payment, they haven't even opted for it with bill pay. Slip fees are our single biggest regular expense.

[psteinx]

Apologies, I've spent more than an hour looking here and on BOA and on doctor of credit for a simple summary of the BOA Cash Rewards with platinum honors. Will someone point me to the right place?

Thanks

That’s because there is no simple explanation 😂.

https://promotions.bankofamerica.com/pr ... rewards/en

Try to make it simple, move $100k of etf’s from another brokerage to Merrill and hold there instead. Make sure to check for any Merrill bonus offers for transferring the assets. Wait 3 months to qualify. Open BoA checking account right before qualifying. Earn 5.25% cash back on customized cash rewards card on category spend and 2.625% on premium rewards on all other spend. Plus other perks like no atm fees and no monthly fee on the checking account

Thinking about this BoA 2.625% thing. Tried to find an explanation, but couldn't easily do so in this thread, nor does the BoA link above really explain things.

Is there a good walkthrough along with pros and cons, anywhere?

Here are my main questions:

1) How stable (long-term) is this thing - don't want to jump through hoops for a rate that's going away in a year or two.
2) No other cards (from non-BoA providers) with straight cashback above 2.00%, correct (excluding sign-up bonuses, etc.)?
3) So, move $100K in ETF $ to Merrill Edge first, right?
3B) If I move, say, $100,500 in ETF $ to Merrill Edge, and the market dips down such that the ETF value goes to $90K (or less) and stays that way for a year or two, does that create problems?
4) Does Merrill Edge pay competitive rates on settlement/money-market funds? i.e. If I put $100K of a stock ETF yielding 1.8% into Merrill, then that $100K throws off ~$450 in dividends quarterly. If, by default, the dividends will go to a settlement fund earning ~0%, then that's either 4 more times a year I must remember to log in and do something with the $450, *OR* that's a non-trivial drag, offsetting the CC cashback, depending on how slow I am to deal with the $450.
5) Is it likely I could get $100-250 for moving the $100K to ME?
6) It seems I must wait, AFTER moving the $100K in, for something like 3 months, THEN open a checking account at BoA, THEN apply for this CC?
7) Is there much chance that I can get a sign-up bonus on the CC?
8) Can I get a paper monthly statement on the CC, or is it electronic only?
9) How does the the 2.625% happen - automatic statement credit, flow to ME account, or some other hoop(s) to jump through?

Even as I type the above, it feels like a significant amount of work. I know a lot of folks do a lot of work to get various CC bonuses/CB, but I prefer a lightweight approach, in terms of complexity and my effort/hassle.

===

In the alternative, if I just want to move my current 1.5% (via CO Quicksilver) to 2.0%, then my options are:
1) Fidelity (drawback is must be deposited back to Fido to get the 2%
2) Citi - I think this is ALMOST 2.00%, actually maybe 1.98% because of the structure? Wonky in other ways?
3) Others?

I really prefer automatic stuff, and I prefer to also get a paper monthly statement.

[the_wiki]

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Dave Ramsey's argument is more targeted towards the very financially irresponsible group who open credit cards and rack up insane amounts of debt that they cannot pay off. Considering this persons credit score is above 810, I would assume he is not Dave Ramsey's target and he or she can handle any new CC's.... hopefully

I think Dave Ramsey is against credit cards period, responsible use or not. See for example this and the discussion of his “truths” even for those that pay their balance off monthly: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/c ... rd-rewards

I am not promoting this, just clarifying, as I use my credit cards for virtually all of my spending and get thousands of dollars of cash back each year,

The credit card industry exists to get people in trouble. They only make real money when people can't pay off their cards because they spent money they didn't have. As one example, Discover makes 2.7 billion per quarter in interest based on a recent shareholder report. Swipe fees go to pay for rewards, and those get passed on to the retailer, which drives up prices across the board. So honestly the rewards are probably just giving us back the money we were overcharged to cover payment processing.

I don't think he is wrong that the CC industry as a whole is a net negative for everyone. And if I was making it my personal mission and business to keep people out of debt, I would hate the industry with a passion. However, given that it is not going away, I'm going to take advantage of what I can to get the most benefit for myself. Me cutting up my cards isn't going to change anything about the industry.

I do think anyone with a low to average income should think twice about credit card reward chasing. If you can't easily keep an extra 2-3 months of spending on tap, you are spending too close to the edge and are bound to get into trouble.

[LuckyInLife]

==

In the alternative, if I just want to move my current 1.5% (via CO Quicksilver) to 2.0%, then my options are:
1) Fidelity (drawback is must be deposited back to Fido to get the 2%
2) Citi - I think this is ALMOST 2.00%, actually maybe 1.98% because of the structure? Wonky in other ways?
3) Others?

I really prefer automatic stuff, and I prefer to also get a paper monthly statement.
[/quote]

I recommend the Wells Fargo Active Cash card. 2% cash back on everything, plus additional targeted offers listed on the credit card website. I just redeem for a statement credit every so often, because I don't have a WF bank account. I think it has a $200 sign up bonus after a pretty reasonable spend.

[protagonist]

What happens if you die?
Do your heirs get your leftover points or do you lose them?

[Morik]

Thinking about this BoA 2.625% thing. Tried to find an explanation, but couldn't easily do so in this thread, nor does the BoA link above really explain things.

Is there a good walkthrough along with pros and cons, anywhere?

Here are my main questions:

1) How stable (long-term) is this thing - don't want to jump through hoops for a rate that's going away in a year or two.
2) No other cards (from non-BoA providers) with straight cashback above 2.00%, correct (excluding sign-up bonuses, etc.)?
3) So, move $100K in ETF $ to Merrill Edge first, right?
3B) If I move, say, $100,500 in ETF $ to Merrill Edge, and the market dips down such that the ETF value goes to $90K (or less) and stays that way for a year or two, does that create problems?
4) Does Merrill Edge pay competitive rates on settlement/money-market funds? i.e. If I put $100K of a stock ETF yielding 1.8% into Merrill, then that $100K throws off ~$450 in dividends quarterly. If, by default, the dividends will go to a settlement fund earning ~0%, then that's either 4 more times a year I must remember to log in and do something with the $450, *OR* that's a non-trivial drag, offsetting the CC cashback, depending on how slow I am to deal with the $450.
5) Is it likely I could get $100-250 for moving the $100K to ME?
6) It seems I must wait, AFTER moving the $100K in, for something like 3 months, THEN open a checking account at BoA, THEN apply for this CC?
7) Is there much chance that I can get a sign-up bonus on the CC?
8) Can I get a paper monthly statement on the CC, or is it electronic only?
9) How does the the 2.625% happen - automatic statement credit, flow to ME account, or some other hoop(s) to jump through?

Even as I type the above, it feels like a significant amount of work. I know a lot of folks do a lot of work to get various CC bonuses/CB, but I prefer a lightweight approach, in terms of complexity and my effort/hassle.

===

In the alternative, if I just want to move my current 1.5% (via CO Quicksilver) to 2.0%, then my options are:
1) Fidelity (drawback is must be deposited back to Fido to get the 2%
2) Citi - I think this is ALMOST 2.00%, actually maybe 1.98% because of the structure? Wonky in other ways?
3) Others?

I really prefer automatic stuff, and I prefer to also get a paper monthly statement.

I left out question #s I didn't know the answer to.
2. Alliant has a 2.5% card if you jump through hoops, IIRC. Fidelity has 3% if you pay them to manage your investments & you have over $1m. I'm not sure if there are others.
3b) Yes you would lose benefits if you left your account below $100k for long enough. You'd need to bring the balance back up.
4) The settlement fund sucks. Their money market funds are pretty good though, but you'd have to manually buy it the day you get the dividend from your stock.
5) You may be able to get $600 if you xfer in > $200k. I think that is their current bonus offer.
6) Sometimes it is faster. I forget exactly how that happens. You can apply for the cc immediately and just wait to start using it until you have the platinum honors status (or use it without the 75% booster until you get the status).
7) Yes, recently I think it was $200 for spending $1k within 3 months of opening, and also 0% APR for 15 months.
9) You can set it to redeem automatically to a BofA account, or to a Merrill Edge account. You can do statement credit but I only seem to be able to find a manual method for that. Note that since the settlement fund sucks you won't want to just leave these with no interest...

[Halicar]

==

In the alternative, if I just want to move my current 1.5% (via CO Quicksilver) to 2.0%, then my options are:
1) Fidelity (drawback is must be deposited back to Fido to get the 2%
2) Citi - I think this is ALMOST 2.00%, actually maybe 1.98% because of the structure? Wonky in other ways?
3) Others?

I really prefer automatic stuff, and I prefer to also get a paper monthly statement.

With the Citi Double Cash, if you use your points as a statement credit, it comes out to 1.99% cash back--a negligible difference in my opinion.

I would recommend the Citi Custom Cash, which gives 5% back on one category, then only use it on your biggest category (for me, that's groceries) and use a 2% cash back for everything else.

EDIT: I meant to reply to this comment by psteinx:

In the alternative, if I just want to move my current 1.5% (via CO Quicksilver) to 2.0%, then my options are:
1) Fidelity (drawback is must be deposited back to Fido to get the 2%
2) Citi - I think this is ALMOST 2.00%, actually maybe 1.98% because of the structure? Wonky in other ways?
3) Others?

I really prefer automatic stuff, and I prefer to also get a paper monthly statement.

[tj]

1) How stable (long-term) is this thing - don't want to jump through hoops for a rate that's going away in a year or two.

It's been around for longer than that. If it ends a year or two from now, that's just dumb luck

[michaeljc70]

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that Dave Ramsey's argument is more targeted towards the very financially irresponsible group who open credit cards and rack up insane amounts of debt that they cannot pay off. Considering this persons credit score is above 810, I would assume he is not Dave Ramsey's target and he or she can handle any new CC's.... hopefully

I think Dave Ramsey is against credit cards period, responsible use or not. See for example this and the discussion of his “truths” even for those that pay their balance off monthly: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/c ... rd-rewards

I am not promoting this, just clarifying, as I use my credit cards for virtually all of my spending and get thousands of dollars of cash back each year,

The credit card industry exists to get people in trouble. They only make real money when people can't pay off their cards because they spent money they didn't have. As one example, Discover makes 2.7 billion per quarter in interest based on a recent shareholder report. Swipe fees go to pay for rewards, and those get passed on to the retailer, which drives up prices across the board. So honestly the rewards are probably just giving us back the money we were overcharged to cover payment processing.

I don't think he is wrong that the CC industry as a whole is a net negative for everyone. And if I was making it my personal mission and business to keep people out of debt, I would hate the industry with a passion. However, given that it is not going away, I'm going to take advantage of what I can to get the most benefit for myself. Me cutting up my cards isn't going to change anything about the industry.

I do think anyone with a low to average income should think twice about credit card reward chasing. If you can't easily keep an extra 2-3 months of spending on tap, you are spending too close to the edge and are bound to get into trouble.

The reason the interest rates are high and people pay it are 1) they aren't able to borrow for less and 2) the default rate (whether through bankruptcy or whatever) is also high.

As with everything, buyer (or borrower) beware!

I charge everything (and pay it off each month), but I had grandparents that in their whole life never had a checking account, mortgage, credit card, auto loan, etc.

[psteinx]

So the BoA 2.625% thing is, structurally:

A 1.5% CC, where that CB gets boosted by 75% (to 2.625%) if one has:

1) $100K+ in a M-E investment account
2) A BoA checking account

?

(And 1+2 enables, after a ~3 month lag, the 75% boost to the CC cashback that turns it from mundane into unusually good.)

Besides the lousy settlement fund, how good/bad is the M-E investment account?
How much needs to stay in the BoA checking account, and are there fees associated with it if it just sits there?

[erp]

So the BoA 2.625% thing is, structurally:

A 1.5% CC, where that CB gets boosted by 75% (to 2.625%) if one has:

1) $100K+ in a M-E investment account
2) A BoA checking account

?

(And 1+2 enables, after a ~3 month lag, the 75% boost to the CC cashback that turns it from mundane into unusually good.)

Besides the lousy settlement fund, how good/bad is the M-E investment account?
How much needs to stay in the BoA checking account, and are there fees associated with it if it just sits there?

Just a heads up, there's a 100 page thread where all these questions have been asked and answered (multiple times) viewtopic.php?t=150033

[psteinx]

So the BoA 2.625% thing is, structurally:

A 1.5% CC, where that CB gets boosted by 75% (to 2.625%) if one has:

1) $100K+ in a M-E investment account
2) A BoA checking account

?

(And 1+2 enables, after a ~3 month lag, the 75% boost to the CC cashback that turns it from mundane into unusually good.)

Besides the lousy settlement fund, how good/bad is the M-E investment account?
How much needs to stay in the BoA checking account, and are there fees associated with it if it just sits there?

Just a heads up, there's a 100 page thread where all these questions have been asked and answered (multiple times) viewtopic.php?t=150033

Well, if I need to fully read a 100 page thread (actually, ATM, 117 pages, 5826 posts), that started in 2014, to understand this somewhat complex CC/CB structure (current, 2023 terms), then maybe it's not for me.

[michaeljc70]

So the BoA 2.625% thing is, structurally:

A 1.5% CC, where that CB gets boosted by 75% (to 2.625%) if one has:

1) $100K+ in a M-E investment account
2) A BoA checking account

?

(And 1+2 enables, after a ~3 month lag, the 75% boost to the CC cashback that turns it from mundane into unusually good.)

Besides the lousy settlement fund, how good/bad is the M-E investment account?
How much needs to stay in the BoA checking account, and are there fees associated with it if it just sits there?

Just a heads up, there's a 100 page thread where all these questions have been asked and answered (multiple times) viewtopic.php?t=150033

Well, if I need to fully read a 100 page thread (actually, ATM, 117 pages, 5826 posts), that started in 2014, to understand this somewhat complex CC/CB structure (current, 2023 terms), then maybe it's not for me.

Or you can call BOA or look on their website. https://www.ml.com/solutions/preferred-rewards.html

[psteinx]

So the BoA 2.625% thing is, structurally:

A 1.5% CC, where that CB gets boosted by 75% (to 2.625%) if one has:

1) $100K+ in a M-E investment account
2) A BoA checking account

?

(And 1+2 enables, after a ~3 month lag, the 75% boost to the CC cashback that turns it from mundane into unusually good.)

Besides the lousy settlement fund, how good/bad is the M-E investment account?
How much needs to stay in the BoA checking account, and are there fees associated with it if it just sits there?

Just a heads up, there's a 100 page thread where all these questions have been asked and answered (multiple times) viewtopic.php?t=150033

Well, if I need to fully read a 100 page thread (actually, ATM, 117 pages, 5826 posts), that started in 2014, to understand this somewhat complex CC/CB structure (current, 2023 terms), then maybe it's not for me.

Or you can call BOA or look on their website. https://www.ml.com/solutions/preferred-rewards.html

And yet, when I click on the link you provide, I see nothing about a 2.625% CC. Rather, I see 75% CB reward bonus. Translating that to real terms (i.e. that it is, I guess, applied to a 1.5% CB card) requires specific knowledge of/expertise in this particular offer. Similarly, I don't especially want to sit through a 30+ minute spiel on the BoA side, plus perhaps a comparable spiel on the M-E side, to get, perhaps, some useful information about this offer (I already had to deal with BoA earlier this year about basic account terms/structure, on behalf of my elderly parents who use BoA, and it was not easy).

I understand, random internet forum respondents may not be eager to type out an essay for me answering the basic terms of this offer. And yet, folks who love these CC games think this stuff is easy and a slam-dunk to do. My CC spending has been drifting up from $10-15K/year to perhaps $20K+. So boosting my CB from 1.5% to 2.625% is worth maybe $200-250/year. That's not nothing. But it's also not a pot of gold. There's also an upper cap on the amount of initial and ongoing effort I'm willing to invest to get that $.

[michaeljc70]

So the BoA 2.625% thing is, structurally:

A 1.5% CC, where that CB gets boosted by 75% (to 2.625%) if one has:

1) $100K+ in a M-E investment account
2) A BoA checking account

?

(And 1+2 enables, after a ~3 month lag, the 75% boost to the CC cashback that turns it from mundane into unusually good.)

Besides the lousy settlement fund, how good/bad is the M-E investment account?
How much needs to stay in the BoA checking account, and are there fees associated with it if it just sits there?

Just a heads up, there's a 100 page thread where all these questions have been asked and answered (multiple times) viewtopic.php?t=150033

Well, if I need to fully read a 100 page thread (actually, ATM, 117 pages, 5826 posts), that started in 2014, to understand this somewhat complex CC/CB structure (current, 2023 terms), then maybe it's not for me.

Or you can call BOA or look on their website. https://www.ml.com/solutions/preferred-rewards.html

And yet, when I click on the link you provide, I see nothing about a 2.625% CC. Rather, I see 75% CB reward bonus. Translating that to real terms (i.e. that it is, I guess, applied to a 1.5% CB card) requires specific knowledge of/expertise in this particular offer. Similarly, I don't especially want to sit through a 30+ minute spiel on the BoA side, plus perhaps a comparable spiel on the M-E side, to get, perhaps, some useful information about this offer (I already had to deal with BoA earlier this year about basic account terms/structure, on behalf of my elderly parents who use BoA, and it was not easy).

I understand, random internet forum respondents may not be eager to type out an essay for me answering the basic terms of this offer. And yet, folks who love these CC games think this stuff is easy and a slam-dunk to do. My CC spending has been drifting up from $10-15K/year to perhaps $20K+. So boosting my CB from 1.5% to 2.625% is worth maybe $200-250/year. That's not nothing. But it's also not a pot of gold. There's also an upper cap on the amount of initial and ongoing effort I'm willing to invest to get that $.

Another aspect is...how much is having $XXX,XXX tied up at ML/BOA worth? I do brokerage rewards. I am getting a $2500 bonus from WF now. How much would I have to spend on a CC with BOA/Merrill to make that worthwhile? I already get at least 2% on every credit card purchase. There are very few BOA branches near me so the checking account is useless. Merrill isn't particularly appealing either (neither was WF, but for $2500 for 90 days it became appealing). You have to weigh everything. There's a reason they're giving extra to get multiple of your accounts. Not worth it to me.

[cowdogman]

Thinking about this BoA 2.625% thing. Tried to find an explanation, but couldn't easily do so in this thread, nor does the BoA link above really explain things.

Is there a good walkthrough along with pros and cons, anywhere?

Here are my main questions:

1) How stable (long-term) is this thing - don't want to jump through hoops for a rate that's going away in a year or two.
2) No other cards (from non-BoA providers) with straight cashback above 2.00%, correct (excluding sign-up bonuses, etc.)?
3) So, move $100K in ETF $ to Merrill Edge first, right?
3B) If I move, say, $100,500 in ETF $ to Merrill Edge, and the market dips down such that the ETF value goes to $90K (or less) and stays that way for a year or two, does that create problems?
4) Does Merrill Edge pay competitive rates on settlement/money-market funds? i.e. If I put $100K of a stock ETF yielding 1.8% into Merrill, then that $100K throws off ~$450 in dividends quarterly. If, by default, the dividends will go to a settlement fund earning ~0%, then that's either 4 more times a year I must remember to log in and do something with the $450, *OR* that's a non-trivial drag, offsetting the CC cashback, depending on how slow I am to deal with the $450.
5) Is it likely I could get $100-250 for moving the $100K to ME?
6) It seems I must wait, AFTER moving the $100K in, for something like 3 months, THEN open a checking account at BoA, THEN apply for this CC?
7) Is there much chance that I can get a sign-up bonus on the CC?
8) Can I get a paper monthly statement on the CC, or is it electronic only?
9) How does the the 2.625% happen - automatic statement credit, flow to ME account, or some other hoop(s) to jump through?

Even as I type the above, it feels like a significant amount of work. I know a lot of folks do a lot of work to get various CC bonuses/CB, but I prefer a lightweight approach, in terms of complexity and my effort/hassle.

===

In the alternative, if I just want to move my current 1.5% (via CO Quicksilver) to 2.0%, then my options are:
1) Fidelity (drawback is must be deposited back to Fido to get the 2%
2) Citi - I think this is ALMOST 2.00%, actually maybe 1.98% because of the structure? Wonky in other ways?
3) Others?

I really prefer automatic stuff, and I prefer to also get a paper monthly statement.

I left out question #s I didn't know the answer to.
2. Alliant has a 2.5% card if you jump through hoops, IIRC. Fidelity has 3% if you pay them to manage your investments & you have over $1m. I'm not sure if there are others.
3b) Yes you would lose benefits if you left your account below $100k for long enough. You'd need to bring the balance back up.
4) The settlement fund sucks. Their money market funds are pretty good though, but you'd have to manually buy it the day you get the dividend from your stock.
5) You may be able to get $600 if you xfer in > $200k. I think that is their current bonus offer.
6) Sometimes it is faster. I forget exactly how that happens. You can apply for the cc immediately and just wait to start using it until you have the platinum honors status (or use it without the 75% booster until you get the status).
7) Yes, recently I think it was $200 for spending $1k within 3 months of opening, and also 0% APR for 15 months.
9) You can set it to redeem automatically to a BofA account, or to a Merrill Edge account. You can do statement credit but I only seem to be able to find a manual method for that. Note that since the settlement fund sucks you won't want to just leave these with no interest...

I tried the BofA thing--see viewtopic.php?p=7418674#p7418674-- and it was a a hassle and ultimately didn't work.

I did get the Alliant card and to qualify for the 2.5% cashback (capped at $10K/spend per statement period) I:

1. Opened the required Alliant checking account (along with the required savings account).
2. I transferred $1,000 into the checking account (Alliant added $5 to the savings account).
3. I set up an auto transfer to the Alliant checking account from my main bank checking account--$100/month. The $100 is not required--any amount will do.

That's it. I know there is a $10K/month cap, but I will rarely exceed that--and I do have my Fidelity 2% card as backup if I do. And I know that it is 0.12% less in cashback, but I can live with that. Much preferable to tying up $100K at Merrill--especially after my experience setting up accounts at BofA and Merrill.

P.S., my cards are:

AAA Visa (5% cashback on groceries, 3% at wholesale clubs and gas stations)
PayPal Mastercard (3% on PayPal purchases--which I do a lot of--and on PayPal bill pay)
Amazon (5% on Amazon purchases--which I do a lot of)
Amex Blue (3% on online purchases where PayPal is not an option)
My Alliant card (2.5% if the above options aren't available)

[boston10]

1) How stable (long-term) is this thing - don't want to jump through hoops for a rate that's going away in a year or two.
2) No other cards (from non-BoA providers) with straight cashback above 2.00%, correct (excluding sign-up bonuses, etc.)?
3) So, move $100K in ETF $ to Merrill Edge first, right?
3B) If I move, say, $100,500 in ETF $ to Merrill Edge, and the market dips down such that the ETF value goes to $90K (or less) and stays that way for a year or two, does that create problems?
4) Does Merrill Edge pay competitive rates on settlement/money-market funds? i.e. If I put $100K of a stock ETF yielding 1.8% into Merrill, then that $100K throws off ~$450 in dividends quarterly. If, by default, the dividends will go to a settlement fund earning ~0%, then that's either 4 more times a year I must remember to log in and do something with the $450, *OR* that's a non-trivial drag, offsetting the CC cashback, depending on how slow I am to deal with the $450.
5) Is it likely I could get $100-250 for moving the $100K to ME?
6) It seems I must wait, AFTER moving the $100K in, for something like 3 months, THEN open a checking account at BoA, THEN apply for this CC?
7) Is there much chance that I can get a sign-up bonus on the CC?
8) Can I get a paper monthly statement on the CC, or is it electronic only?
9) How does the the 2.625% happen - automatic statement credit, flow to ME account, or some other hoop(s) to jump through?

1) It's been around for over a decade. It keeps substantial deposits with BoA and causes a large number of people to make them their one-stop shop, so I doubt it's going anywhere.

2) Correct except for the Alliant card that has been mentioned. All 2%+ rewards cards come with substantial strings.

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

4) Yes, I make more with my Fidelity money market @ Merrill (FISXX) than my Fidelity money market @ Fidelity (SPRXX). And the Merrill fund is safer (Treasuries).

5) Yes, I just received $400 for $100k+. If that's not the current bonus offer then call them and you should get it.

6) Open everything at once and move the money in within 30 days and you get PR status, bypassing the 3 month rule.

7) You can, it's at $200. BUT the much more lucrative part of the current offer is 15 months at 0% interest. Load up the credit card and put the cash into a money market. If your limit is $20k and you load it up in a month or 2, you will earn over $1k in interest @ 5%.

8) Not sure, was not aware anyone on earth still liked paper statements in 2023

9) Button click to deposit to your BoA/Merrill accounts. You can set up auto-redemption and specify the account you want it to go into.

[FedGuy]

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

Or D) transfer $100,000 to ML, invest in TTTXX--a Blackrock Treasury fund currently returning 5.21%--and watch it increase in value over time.

8) Not sure, was not aware anyone on earth still liked paper statements in 2023

Most BoA cards allow you to get paper statements. I've been told that the Nature Conservancy affinity card does not, but that makes sense given that it's a Nature Conservancy card.

[tj]

I believe Merrill Does an annual check of the 3 month average. It's unclear. I transferred out to Public last year to earn $2k for $100k (that dwarfed the cashback substantially), didn't get the boost for a few months and then transferred 100k to Merrill for a bonus later. It still has my original date for the "Preferred since"

[Pu239]

Most BoA cards allow you to get paper statements. I've been told that the Nature Conservancy affinity card does not, but that makes sense given that it's a Nature Conservancy card.

Not true. I receive my Nature Conservancy CCR paper statement by mail.

[psteinx]

I'm about a 90% no on the BoA 2.625% card, but I do have one last (hopefully) follow up Q.

IIUC, you need a checking account at BoA to make this work.

What's the minimum balance in the checking account to avoid monthly/annual fees and to make the BoA CC pay 2.625%?

(Question mainly because an incremental checking account, with, say, a $1000 balance, is a ~$50 drag in a world of 5%+ interest rates. That's on top of the issues of opening a M-E account, settlement account drags there, and the overall complexity in general and of another 1099 at tax-time - these things are, collectively, not trivial...)

[Leesbro63]

I'm about a 90% no on the BoA 2.625% card, but I do have one last (hopefully) follow up Q.

IIUC, you need a checking account at BoA to make this work.

What's the minimum balance in the checking account to avoid monthly/annual fees and to make the BoA CC pay 2.625%?

(Question mainly because an incremental checking account, with, say, a $1000 balance, is a ~$50 drag in a world of 5%+ interest rates. That's on top of the issues of opening a M-E account, settlement account drags there, and the overall complexity in general and of another 1099 at tax-time - these things are, collectively, not trivial...)

I have this set up. Well over $100,000 at Merrill Edge. 2.625% BofA credit card and a BofA checking account that I don't use much and never has more than $500 in it. As low as just under $200. Never a fee.

[psteinx]

And, assuming I simply try to improve from my current 1.5% CB (Cap One Quicksilver) to ~2.0%, how easy is it to get a decent 2.0% card that ALSO includes a decent ($150-250?) bonus for initial spending?

I don't generally pursue sign-up bonuses actively, but if I'm gonna sign up for a new CC anyways, might as well...

As recently as ~3 years ago, I used to get a decent stream of offers through the mail - those have mostly dried up. If you find a ~2.0% card you like (say the Citi one), can you just get the extra signup bonus online when you apply, or do you need to get that offer ahead of time somehow, and, if the latter, what's the easiest way to find/peruse such offers (again, only for ~2.0% or better cards).

[FedGuy]

I have this set up. Well over $100,000 at Merrill Edge. 2.625% BofA credit card and a BofA checking account that I don't use much and never has more than $500 in it. As low as just under $200. Never a fee.

I keep my BoA checking account at $100 and have never been hit with a fee.

[anon_investor]

I have this set up. Well over $100,000 at Merrill Edge. 2.625% BofA credit card and a BofA checking account that I don't use much and never has more than $500 in it. As low as just under $200. Never a fee.

I keep my BoA checking account at $100 and have never been hit with a fee.

I keep my BoA checking account at around $10, but have over $100k in ETFs and MMFs at ME, never had a fee.

[sailaway]

Free checking is one of the perks of Preferred Rewards. The issue is if there is no activity in your checking account. But if you have your rewards deposited to checking and use that to transfer elsewhere, that would likely be more than enough activity.

[anon_investor]

Free checking is one of the perks of Preferred Rewards. The issue is if there is no activity in your checking account. But if you have your rewards deposited to checking and use that to transfer elsewhere, that would likely be more than enough activity.

Just about my only activity is depositing BoA CC cash back into my BoA checking then immediately transferring it to my ME or Fido account.

[boston10]

Free checking is one of the perks of Preferred Rewards. The issue is if there is no activity in your checking account. But if you have your rewards deposited to checking and use that to transfer elsewhere, that would likely be more than enough activity.

I don't think you need activity, you just can't have both inactivity and a $0 balance. I keep $25 in it and deposit my rewards directly to Merrill.

[sailaway]

Free checking is one of the perks of Preferred Rewards. The issue is if there is no activity in your checking account. But if you have your rewards deposited to checking and use that to transfer elsewhere, that would likely be more than enough activity.

I don't think you need activity, you just can't have both inactivity and a $0 balance. I keep $25 in it and deposit my rewards directly to Merrill.

That could be: I am not doing well with details today.

[Lyrrad]

What's the minimum balance in the checking account to avoid monthly/annual fees and to make the BoA CC pay 2.625%?

$0.01

[Mudpuppy]

And, assuming I simply try to improve from my current 1.5% CB (Cap One Quicksilver) to ~2.0%, how easy is it to get a decent 2.0% card that ALSO includes a decent ($150-250?) bonus for initial spending?

I don't generally pursue sign-up bonuses actively, but if I'm gonna sign up for a new CC anyways, might as well...

According to Doctor of Credit, there's a sign-up bonus of $150 after $1500 spending available for the Fidelity 2% card with the special link in their review. I don't know if that link actually works to get the bonus though. Doctor of Credit review with link: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/fidelity ... available/

[lakpr]

And, assuming I simply try to improve from my current 1.5% CB (Cap One Quicksilver) to ~2.0%, how easy is it to get a decent 2.0% card that ALSO includes a decent ($150-250?) bonus for initial spending?

Wells Fargo has $200 bonus offer after $500 spend on their Active Cash card

https://creditcards.wellsfargo.com/acti ... or_code=WF

I have this card, and you can redeem any amount of rewards towards statement credit. Used to be $25 min for redemption but they changed it a bit recently (may be Feb 2023?)

[boston10]

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

Or D) transfer $100,000 to ML, invest in TTTXX--a Blackrock Treasury fund currently returning 5.21%--and watch it increase in value over time.

Hard to imagine why you'd want $100k in cash equivalents unless you're trying your hand at market timing, but sure.

[Leesbro63]

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

Or D) transfer $100,000 to ML, invest in TTTXX--a Blackrock Treasury fund currently returning 5.21%--and watch it increase in value over time.

Hard to imagine why you'd want $100k in cash equivalents unless you're trying your hand at market timing, but sure.

The optimal way (for those with way more than $100,000 in brokerage account securities) is to take advantage of the Merrill/BofA 2.625% credit card is to park long term assets at Merrill Edge that you'd have just parked elsewhere anyway.

[pizzy]

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

Or D) transfer $100,000 to ML, invest in TTTXX--a Blackrock Treasury fund currently returning 5.21%--and watch it increase in value over time.

Hard to imagine why you'd want $100k in cash equivalents unless you're trying your hand at market timing, but sure.

We keep 10% cash (0% bonds) which equates to >$100k

[Cash is King]

Fidelity Visa introduces 0% foreign transaction fees effective September 1, 2023. I just noticed this change.


https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060 ... emoved.pdf

[FedGuy]

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

Or D) transfer $100,000 to ML, invest in TTTXX--a Blackrock Treasury fund currently returning 5.21%--and watch it increase in value over time.

Hard to imagine why you'd want $100k in cash equivalents unless you're trying your hand at market timing, but sure.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Emergency_fund

[tj]

3) Your 3 month average needs to stay above $100k. So, A) transfer $130k+ and don't worry about it knowing you're probably good, B) transfer $100,500 and don't worry about it knowing that if the market dips in the short term you're still making 2.25% as long as the balance doesn't fall under $50k, or C) transfer $100,500 and be ready to transfer more money in if you need to. I chose option A but I also monitor it frequently as I do all things and will transfer more in if needed.

Or D) transfer $100,000 to ML, invest in TTTXX--a Blackrock Treasury fund currently returning 5.21%--and watch it increase in value over time.

Hard to imagine why you'd want $100k in cash equivalents unless you're trying your hand at market timing, but sure.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Emergency_fund

$100k seems like a rather large emergency fund.