New or used car in today's market?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

At a loss with these prices and rates. Need to upgrade for growing family and I only have 6 months.

Debating either paying cash for a 5-7 year old used one with 30k mile range or less and someone elses potential problems $25k range or putting half down on a new $50k suv. The new safety features are what is leaning me towards a newer one, but am concerned about huge depreciation hit, especially on new, if the market does correct. I can order exactly the car I want and it will be in on time. The car currently looking at new is offering rates 1.9, 3.9, 4.9 plus cash back. Problem is limited available and hardly any in the combo we need. New and used

I am hoping manufacturers start rolling out better incentives which they have slowly started to.

I get this feeling that manufacturers are just playing games and keeping the market status quo by limiting production, so I am wondering if new car prices are just here to stay
Last edited by Bikes4life on Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
000
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:04 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by 000 »

User name does not check out.... :D

What specific new safety features are of interest to you?
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Haha good catch!

I believe 2016-2017 area cars had mostly the emergency braking, backup cameras, and maybe lane alert unless higher trims.

Now, most come standard with more standard items, improved airbags, and improved emergency braking assist, lane alert, rear pedestrian and vehicle alert, etc. More the better with young kids.
Safety really is the priority here, so only looking at mostly at least 5 star crash rated vehicles. The 25k car payment on new could definitely go to something else though as well

I was possibly thinking if I did used in cash, I could get maybe a few more years out of it. If I go new, should be able to keep it 10 years. I keep my cars immaculate and I am picky, so finding a gem is tough. I found one just as it was sold.

Also keeping in mind 2020/2021 early 2022 area covid cars may not be worth looking at. Potential quality issues as many production lines were rushed with limited staff
Last edited by Bikes4life on Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
arcticpineapplecorp.
Posts: 15014
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:22 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

Clark Howard recently said that prices still haven't come down on the used car market yet so if you're going to have the car for at least 10 years then buying new is fine (in today's market).
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
DoubleComma
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by DoubleComma »

There was an article today that I read about various strategies manufacturers, not dealers, are doing to keep production down and thus prices up. For every couple percent of value they are able to extract from new sales, it allows them to produce few cars, saving money across all their variable cost (labor, power, raw materials), and still achieve financial targets while simultaneously lowering cost.

Unlike some who think car prices will fall and inventories (selection) will increase, I don’t think so. I believe we will slowly shift to ordering more and more cars, paying MSRP, and reduce the dealership negotiating. Time will tell.

As for new or used today, it’s really more about how long you keep vehicles. If you keep them ~10 years, buy new. If you like a new vehicle every 4-5 years, but used.
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28813
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Watty »

What model?

Buying a seven year Old Land rover is a lot different than a used Lexus.
runner3081
Posts: 5978
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by runner3081 »

Bikes4life wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm I get this feeling that manufacturers are just playing games and keeping the market status quo by limiting production, so I am wondering if new car prices are just here to stay
Let's face it. Prices are not going down, they will level out, but aren't going down.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Watty wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:10 pm What model?

Buying a seven year Old Land rover is a lot different than a used Lexus.
Chevy traverse
FireSekr
Posts: 1383
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by FireSekr »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:50 am
Watty wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:10 pm What model?

Buying a seven year Old Land rover is a lot different than a used Lexus.
Chevy traverse
Regardless new or used, you should probably look for better alternatives. It’s mediocre at best. You can do a lot better for the same money. Car and driver ranks the Traverse 25 out of 27 vehicles in the midsize category. You can pretty much throw a dart with your eyes closed and land on a better option.

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/traverse
User avatar
Tubes
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:33 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Tubes »

There's not going to be a sudden drop in either the new or used market. We can hope for a leveling in new, and a drift down in used.

Used was drifting down then bumped up again.

I thought it would reverse, but I've come around to the idea this is going to take years. The manufacturers are limiting supply. They will eventually break, but it will take time.

If you are looking for a GM, put pressure on them. They are not in the same cat bird seat as Toyota.

And Stellantis? I would drive the hardest of bargains. Stellantis vehicles (RAM, Jeep, Chrysler) are in relative plentiful supply, but there's a reason for that.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18461
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

GM is one of the manufacturers who has overloaded dealers with way more inventory than they can sell in a reasonable time. Ford and Stelantis seem to be the worst with some dealers actually sending brand new vehicles to auction because they can't afford the floor plan payments. Part of this stream of new vehicles is because they kept manufacturing even without all the parts needed and stacked these unfinished vehicles in lots in the 10 thousands. As parts came in, teams headed to the lots and completed those vehicles that were then put on trucks and forced down dealers' throats. Some of these were already a year old, so your brand new vehicle on the dealer lot could already have mouse nests and chewed wiring in them.

Looking at the "build and price", the good news is that 2022 is no longer an option as it is for several other GM vehicles, meaning that these other vehicles may be 2 years old by the time they hit dealer lots. Expect it could be a year old. If you order, pick strange options to possibly avoid old lot stored vehicles. Or wait and go right to 2024 as there are already several vehicles for 24 available.

Of course dealers are going to be willing to negotiate more with vehicles on their lot that they're paying floor plan money on because they really want to get rid of these. I'd certainly fully inspect these as if they're used.

Used vehicles on the other hand are about to take a nose dive in pricing. Auctions are seeing a ton of no sale vehicles that don't meet the reserve price. As much as 50% are no sale. So for the moment, used car dealers are stuck without good newer vehicles because they're not willing to overpay so you can expect that prices are presently going to be high. Waiting will certainly bring prices down as dealers are about to go out of business and just accept anything to get rid of inventory to not close their doors. So in short, on used, wait.

Whatever you decide, if you wait, you'll save. If you have to buy in the next 6 months, you will overpay. Sorry. Check leases. Jeep is subsidizing their plug in hybrid leases and with a lease, they take the $7500 and apply it to the lease. I've seen another $7500 or more off of these for the lease cap cost. Can you live with a Grand Cherokee rather than a Traverse? These are relatively overstocked and not selling.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
MtnTravel
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:26 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by MtnTravel »

I’m seeing a whole lot of car ads on TV during the morning and evening news offering 0% financing deals. While prices may not come down, it seems like the market may be leveling off. With interest rates being as high as they are, it has to mean something that auto makers are willing to offer finance deals to get people to buy.

You mentioned above 16/17 model year cars. As the owner of a car in that age range, I can tell you that the auto braking from 6 years ago is much less advanced than what you can get now. The newer systems are more refined and seem to work a lot better. I’d buy new at this point, only for that reason.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

FireSekr wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:13 am
Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:50 am
Watty wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:10 pm What model?

Buying a seven year Old Land rover is a lot different than a used Lexus.
Chevy traverse
Regardless new or used, you should probably look for better alternatives. It’s mediocre at best. You can do a lot better for the same money. Car and driver ranks the Traverse 25 out of 27 vehicles in the midsize category. You can pretty much throw a dart with your eyes closed and land on a better option.

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/traverse
I know, there unfortunately aren't many options short of going to a larger suv like an expedition, tahoe which are too large.
Majority on those on the C&D list won't work.
It needs to fit 3 car seats across middle bench and have lots of cargo room.
The explorer is probably the 2nd behind it in terms of cargo and equal safety ratings, but the cargo space is questionable.
If we only had 2 kids, then the options are wide open. 3 makes it a challenge with all the gear.

The traverse checks everything off and we have a really good relationship with our gm dealer as well so the dealer support is key.

The problem with the road test reviews, is that it doesn't really equal a family lifestyle for an apples-to-apples comparison.
There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by them.
I haven't heard any negatives. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
I wish there were more choices though!
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

MtnTravel wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:24 am I’m seeing a whole lot of car ads on TV during the morning and evening news offering 0% financing deals. While prices may not come down, it seems like the market may be leveling off. With interest rates being as high as they are, it has to mean something that auto makers are willing to offer finance deals to get people to buy.

You mentioned above 16/17 model year cars. As the owner of a car in that age range, I can tell you that the auto braking from 6 years ago is much less advanced than what you can get now. The newer systems are more refined and seem to work a lot better. I’d buy new at this point, only for that reason.
There have been significant improvements and that is swaying me new. Repairs are getting crazy expensive. No more fender benders just replacing a fender. Now it's a $3000 bumper job and $5000 in sensors haha
muffins14
Posts: 5432
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by muffins14 »

Do people really need rear pedestrian alert, lane alert, and assisted braking?

I feel like I’m turning into an old curmudgeon, but when I owned a car from 2002-2010 in high school and college, I didn’t die. I have to imagine that cars from earlier than your 5-7 year cutoff are basically the same in terms of actually measurable safety. The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc

Just wait for apple goggles or whatever. I’m sure it’ll be great on the road
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Valuethinker »

muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:48 am Do people really need rear pedestrian alert, lane alert, and assisted braking?

I feel like I’m turning into an old curmudgeon, but when I owned a car from 2002-2010 in high school and college, I didn’t die. I have to imagine that cars from earlier than your 5-7 year cutoff are basically the same in terms of actually measurable safety. The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc

Just wait for apple goggles or whatever. I’m sure it’ll be great on the road
Road death rates are up considerably in the US, I believe. At least compared to 2019. It looks as if people got used to driving faster and more aggressively during the Covid period and have not readjusted their behaviour.

Also vehicles have gotten bigger. Which makes them more deadly if they collide with you. (Pedestrian road death rates are up a *lot* - this may be because newer vehicles have higher grills and so less visibility).
muffins14
Posts: 5432
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am
Location: New York

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by muffins14 »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:57 am
muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:48 am Do people really need rear pedestrian alert, lane alert, and assisted braking?

I feel like I’m turning into an old curmudgeon, but when I owned a car from 2002-2010 in high school and college, I didn’t die. I have to imagine that cars from earlier than your 5-7 year cutoff are basically the same in terms of actually measurable safety. The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc

Just wait for apple goggles or whatever. I’m sure it’ll be great on the road
Road death rates are up considerably in the US, I believe. At least compared to 2019. It looks as if people got used to driving faster and more aggressively during the Covid period and have not readjusted their behaviour.

Also vehicles have gotten bigger. Which makes them more deadly if they collide with you. (Pedestrian road death rates are up a *lot* - this may be because newer vehicles have higher grills and so less visibility).
Correct, but I don’t think the pedestrians are being run over backwards such that a rear alert is helpful

Does assistive braking detect pedestrians and automatically slow you down as you approach an intersection? I imagine it does not
Last edited by muffins14 on Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crom laughs at your Four Winds
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Valuethinker »

Bikes4life wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm At a loss with these prices and rates. Need to upgrade for growing family and I only have 6 months.

Debating either paying cash for a 5-7 year old used one with 30k mile range or less and someone elses potential problems $25k range or putting half down on a new $50k suv. The new safety features are what is leaning me towards a newer one, but am concerned about huge depreciation hit, especially on new, if the market does correct. I can order exactly the car I want and it will be in on time. The car currently looking at new is offering rates 1.9, 3.9, 4.9 plus cash back. Problem is limited available and hardly any in the combo we need. New and used

I am hoping manufacturers start rolling out better incentives which they have slowly started to.

I get this feeling that manufacturers are just playing games and keeping the market status quo by limiting production, so I am wondering if new car prices are just here to stay
For reasons advanced by many posters, don't expect supply issues in high demand cars & makes to rectify quickly. Manufacturers have learned to produce fewer and higher margin vehicles. Even as other supply chain issues get sorted out.

There are just millions of cars that were never made, that would have been produced and sold under normal circumstances-- particularly in the period 2020-22. Like the birth deficit during a major war, for example, because the men are all overseas serving, that will be permanent -- cars of certain vintages will always be in short supply. (Humans last 70-80 years before that drops out of the numbers, whereas with cars it's probably only up to about 20 years).

That said, and again there's some good intelligence here, that won't be true of all models or all brands.

Given input cost inflation don't expect the prices of new cars to come down with a thump, either.

Given higher interest rates, it's also more expensive for the manufacturers to offer incentives, so I expect less of those.

You may take the depreciation hit. If you hold your car for say 10 years, it will probably nearly even out. If you are likely to sell again in 2-3 years time, it will hurt.
JML
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:56 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by JML »

I am in the buy new camp. If you need a three row suv, I think you should look hard at the Mazda cx-9. There’s $3000 in cash back and zero percent financing. If you can wait a few weeks you might be able to swing a nice deal as dealers need to meet quotas.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-car-deals
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Valuethinker »

muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:02 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:57 am
muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:48 am Do people really need rear pedestrian alert, lane alert, and assisted braking?

I feel like I’m turning into an old curmudgeon, but when I owned a car from 2002-2010 in high school and college, I didn’t die. I have to imagine that cars from earlier than your 5-7 year cutoff are basically the same in terms of actually measurable safety. The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc

Just wait for apple goggles or whatever. I’m sure it’ll be great on the road
Road death rates are up considerably in the US, I believe. At least compared to 2019. It looks as if people got used to driving faster and more aggressively during the Covid period and have not readjusted their behaviour.

Also vehicles have gotten bigger. Which makes them more deadly if they collide with you. (Pedestrian road death rates are up a *lot* - this may be because newer vehicles have higher grills and so less visibility).
Correct, but I don’t think the pedestrians are being run over backwards such that a rear alert is helpful
You will have seen that diagram that an M1 tank has better forward visibility than some brands of pickup?
Does assistive braking detect pedestrians and automatically slow you down as you approach an intersection? I imagine it does not
My point was that if one has concerns about car safety, newer may be better. The old arms race around vehicle size (which I deplore, but it is what it is).

I take your point that the specific features above may not improve it.
bg5
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:07 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by bg5 »

Buy yourself a used Honda or Toyota....they last forever
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

JML wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:04 am I am in the buy new camp. If you need a three row suv, I think you should look hard at the Mazda cx-9. There’s $3000 in cash back and zero percent financing. If you can wait a few weeks you might be able to swing a nice deal as dealers need to meet quotas.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-car-deals
The cx-9 would be my top choice! The cx9 is a great suv and the cx-90 looks promising, but the rear cargo is too small for both and I have tried fitting 3 car seats across and it is tight. If the cx-90 was larger, I probably would go for that.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

bg5 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:06 am Buy yourself a used Honda or Toyota....they last forever
For sure, I am keeping the pilot and the toyotas in the running as well.
tibbitts
Posts: 23589
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by tibbitts »

muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:48 am The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc
Do you mean slamming into you as a pedestrian or motorist? Braking assist might help if the person running into you has that feature. I don't know if there are any vehicles yet that will sense a vehicle approaching (presumably most often from the rear) and proactively take evasive action, but presumably that capability will come along soon if it doesn't exist now.

As for your experience with older technology, as with investing performance, we all have the choice of ascribing past experiences to luck or skill.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:05 am
muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:02 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:57 am
muffins14 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:48 am Do people really need rear pedestrian alert, lane alert, and assisted braking?

I feel like I’m turning into an old curmudgeon, but when I owned a car from 2002-2010 in high school and college, I didn’t die. I have to imagine that cars from earlier than your 5-7 year cutoff are basically the same in terms of actually measurable safety. The thing you have to look out for is more likely people driving while texting or scrolling Instagram and slamming into you, which I’m not sure is helped by assistive braking or pedestrian alerts etc

Just wait for apple goggles or whatever. I’m sure it’ll be great on the road
Road death rates are up considerably in the US, I believe. At least compared to 2019. It looks as if people got used to driving faster and more aggressively during the Covid period and have not readjusted their behaviour.

Also vehicles have gotten bigger. Which makes them more deadly if they collide with you. (Pedestrian road death rates are up a *lot* - this may be because newer vehicles have higher grills and so less visibility).
Correct, but I don’t think the pedestrians are being run over backwards such that a rear alert is helpful
You will have seen that diagram that an M1 tank has better forward visibility than some brands of pickup?
Does assistive braking detect pedestrians and automatically slow you down as you approach an intersection? I imagine it does not
My point was that if one has concerns about car safety, newer may be better. The old arms race around vehicle size (which I deplore, but it is what it is).

I take your point that the specific features above may not improve it.
I was just having this conversation with someone trying to justify an older vehicle with outdated and much less safety features. I said, we all survived with the older cars!...however, now that I have young kids, regardless as to whether or not certain extra features add extra benefit, it just makes you feel more comfortable with your decision having updated safety technology, whether it's advanced collision avoidance, etc.
Can't really put a price on safety. I do agree, some of the safety features are questionable whether or not they are worthwhile.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:26 am GM is one of the manufacturers who has overloaded dealers with way more inventory than they can sell in a reasonable time. Ford and Stelantis seem to be the worst with some dealers actually sending brand new vehicles to auction because they can't afford the floor plan payments. Part of this stream of new vehicles is because they kept manufacturing even without all the parts needed and stacked these unfinished vehicles in lots in the 10 thousands. As parts came in, teams headed to the lots and completed those vehicles that were then put on trucks and forced down dealers' throats. Some of these were already a year old, so your brand new vehicle on the dealer lot could already have mouse nests and chewed wiring in them.

Looking at the "build and price", the good news is that 2022 is no longer an option as it is for several other GM vehicles, meaning that these other vehicles may be 2 years old by the time they hit dealer lots. Expect it could be a year old. If you order, pick strange options to possibly avoid old lot stored vehicles. Or wait and go right to 2024 as there are already several vehicles for 24 available.

Of course dealers are going to be willing to negotiate more with vehicles on their lot that they're paying floor plan money on because they really want to get rid of these. I'd certainly fully inspect these as if they're used.

Used vehicles on the other hand are about to take a nose dive in pricing. Auctions are seeing a ton of no sale vehicles that don't meet the reserve price. As much as 50% are no sale. So for the moment, used car dealers are stuck without good newer vehicles because they're not willing to overpay so you can expect that prices are presently going to be high. Waiting will certainly bring prices down as dealers are about to go out of business and just accept anything to get rid of inventory to not close their doors. So in short, on used, wait.

Whatever you decide, if you wait, you'll save. If you have to buy in the next 6 months, you will overpay. Sorry. Check leases. Jeep is subsidizing their plug in hybrid leases and with a lease, they take the $7500 and apply it to the lease. I've seen another $7500 or more off of these for the lease cap cost. Can you live with a Grand Cherokee rather than a Traverse? These are relatively overstocked and not selling.

Thanks for all the info!
I didn't realize GM was doing that. My dealer has no traverses and neither do many in the area.
I searched the entire country as best as I could, and found not 1 match to the combination we picked. The bench is what skews it. Majority are captains chairs. So most likely, if we built one to spec, it would not already be sitting around.
The traverse is getting redesigned in december, so I am hoping that will also push new incentives for the current model, depending on how many are left. I really can't wait much past december, so unfortunately the timing is against me. I wish I could wait just a little longer, but unless I borrow a 3rd row from a family member and swap cars for a few months, I will need something.

I would love the new jeep grand cherokee L.My wife would as well.
I am not 100% sure on their quality. I have heard mixed reviews since Stellantis took over.
I could revisit those, but I have looked at in person and the cargo room seems a touch on the small side for what we need. I am sure it could work most of the time, however, I know a couple who just bought one and although they love it, now they are running into issues with getting all their stuff in and are considering something larger.
JML
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:56 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by JML »

Have you tried looking at smaller car seats? We did and it has worked well for us. The car seat lady has wonderful recommendations. Also if the cargo space is holding you back, have you thought about getting a trailer hitch and having a temporary cargo carrier? I would be surprised if you need all that cargo space all the time.
Andyrunner
Posts: 856
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:14 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Andyrunner »

I was at the dealership last month and bought a new Honda Ridgeline. Sales guy told me with used car prices so inflated still. The lightly used cars (30k miles or less) are for people who need a car today. As in the buyer had an accident or mechanical issues and need to ditch their car ASAP.

If you are in the market for a car with little to no miles and can wait, go to the dealership, look what new ones they have on the lot (that are already sold) then look at what they have on order and then put a refundable deposit down on one coming in.

I think that was his honest opinion, not just the sales tactic. I bought my new Ridgeline for 40k, they had a Ridgeline with 90k miles for $30k. Clearly one was inflated.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

JML wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:22 am Have you tried looking at smaller car seats? We did and it has worked well for us. The car seat lady has wonderful recommendations. Also if the cargo space is holding you back, have you thought about getting a trailer hitch and having a temporary cargo carrier? I would be surprised if you need all that cargo space all the time.
We are going to need another car seat or 2 with the baby coming anyhow, and have started to look at alternatives for narrow ones so that will help!
Car seat lady is super helpful. I have read a lot of her stuff.
We have thought about a cargo carrier- it is an option for sure. We use bike racks all the time, so adding something else wouldn't be the end of the world when needed. I do agree that most of the time, all the cargo room isn't needed. There has to be a compromise somewhere
homebuyer6426
Posts: 1830
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:08 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by homebuyer6426 »

Buy used. I drive a 99 Suburban. It has 225K miles and they commonly make it past 300K. It's only worth about $3000. They can seat 8-9 people. Yes the gas mileage is about half the typical gas vehicle, but the price to own far outweighs that consideration. Find a vehicle with similar longevity, and buy an older model than most would go for, if you want to get a good deal. If you live in a road salt area, consider buying something from the south and driving it up north, then getting yearly undercoatings.

The most important safety feature is always going to be you: being an alert and attentive driver.
45% Total Stock Market | 52% Consumer Staples | 3% Short Term Reserves
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28813
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Watty »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:50 am
Watty wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:10 pm What model?

Buying a seven year Old Land rover is a lot different than a used Lexus.
Chevy traverse
For a Traverse buying new would be an easy choice for me to get the warranty since I am not a big fan of GM cars.

Even if you can find a used one that is around seven years old with only 30k miles like you you said in your original post you will still likely have it when it is 10 to 15 years old so you need to be concerned about how reliable it will be then. A lot of issues with cars are more aged based than mileage based.

A used car with only 30K miles on it will also likely still have the original tires on it. Even if there is a lot of tread left the tires may be about due to be replaced because of their age so be sure to also include that in you budget.

If you buy it new then you there is reasonable chance that you could drive it for ten years without too many problems. If you buy it used then figure out how long you are likely to keep it and how much it might be worth with it is may 12 to 15 years old and you want to replace it.

It would also be good to research why it did not get a top safety pick.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks

Probably because the headlights got a P-poor safety rating. It would be good to see if you can arrange for a test drive at night to see how the you like the headlights.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/ch ... r-suv/2023

You hear a lot about the new advanced safety features like automatic braking but there have also been a lot of advances in headlights which also make a huge difference. I have a Subaru with LED headlights which focus and turn the left or right as you go around a curve and they are noticeably better than any other car that I have had and they got a G-Good rating. Until you have driven a car with really good headlights it is hard to appreciate just how much better they can be. It is not just that they are brighter, I have never had anyone "flash" their headlights at me like I had left my brights on.

https://www.iihs.org/topics/headlights

There is also a section in that link on car seats and it was not clear if putting car seats in the third row was recommended or not since there are no lower car seat anchors in the third row. It would be good to research that too.
Colorado Guy
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Colorado Guy »

Bikes4life wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm At a loss with these prices and rates.
Curious if you have investigated purchasing from a broker instead of a dealer. Supposedly (?) it will save some money, but I have no direct experience with them.
bombcar
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:41 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by bombcar »

Three across screams "minivan" to me, but using Diono I can get 3 across even into a tiny Dodge Avenger.
bloom2708
Posts: 9855
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by bloom2708 »

A ~2015 to 2017 Ford Expedition was noted as a vehicle most likely to make it to 200k miles and more.

I vote to skip the mid sized. Go to an Expedition EL (Max) or Suburban or Yukon XL.

People, stuff and towing. You can't outgrow it unless you have 7 kids. :D

Find one with 30-50k miles.

All our opinions are colored by our own experiences. We had 3 kids and with some mis-picks I finally settled on an Expedition EL several years back.

Our other car is more of a gas sipper. You use the right tool for the job. No one car fits all the use cases.

Good luck. I have a hard time spending $50k on a car when we make $90k total. Oh well. Inflation is fun.
rockstar
Posts: 6308
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:51 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by rockstar »

I’d go new until used car prices come down a lot more.
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

bombcar wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:55 pm Three across screams "minivan" to me, but using Diono I can get 3 across even into a tiny Dodge Avenger.
I definitely need to look into some narrower seats for sure.
I was looking into minivan.
Problem is that it needs to be AWD, so that leaves odyssey and sienna.

The sienna I would get in a heartbeat, they are just unavailable and I cant wait a year to get one.
The dealers all laughed at me when I tried inquiring.
And the middle seat on the sienna is really small too

I would not buy an odyssey.
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28813
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Watty »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:49 pm Problem is that it needs to be AWD, so that leaves odyssey and sienna.
If you have not already looked at it you might want to also add the Subaru Ascent and Outback to the list of cars to look at.

A couple of years ago when I was shopping my my Forester I recall that Ascent had some problems that were atypical for Subaru and there were some model years to avoid. You might want to research it extra carefully to see if those problems have been fixed in the current model year.

Out of curiosity I looked to how the Ascent handled three car seats and I found this article about 3 car seats from Consumers Reports.

https://www.consumerreports.org/babies- ... 654045254/

But is behind a paywall. The last time I was car hunting I paid something like $10 to get a months access to the Consumer Reports web site and I found it to be well worthwhile.
User avatar
rob
Posts: 5236
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by rob »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:49 pm Problem is that it needs to be AWD, so that leaves odyssey and sienna.
Odyssey is AWD?
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Topic Author
Bikes4life
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Bikes4life »

Sorry, no it is not. I meant pacifica haha.
Too many damn car models I have been looking at.
000
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:04 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by 000 »

Bikes4life wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:51 pm improved emergency braking assist, lane alert, rear pedestrian and vehicle alert
A lot of those sound more like safety features for people outside rather than inside the car (when really the best thing to do for the safety of others is to buy a lighter car, but this conflicts with the safety of your own family).
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18461
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:41 am
The problem with the road test reviews, is that it doesn't really equal a family lifestyle for an apples-to-apples comparison.
There are so many families I know who have traverses, and every one of them swears by them.
I haven't heard any negatives. Many of them are on their 2nd or 3rd traverses.
I wish there were more choices though!
I just looked at the engine choices for the Traverse and ... oh no. The infamous 3.6L. This engine is notorious for timing chain stretching early on. If it skips a gear, which it can, it destroys the engine. This is an old and common 3.6L problem. I have been considering a Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing which has a turbo version of that engine and have pretty much decided that if I do buy one, I'll absolutely sell it before the powertrain warranty is up. In addition, I'd be changing oil every 2000 miles which seems excessive, but can help greatly with preventing problems with this problematic engine.

If you're not willing to get rid of this before the powertrain warranty is up, look for something else. I note the warranty is 5 years 60k miles on the drivetrain which is interesting as the Cadillac with the same base engine is 6 years, 70k miles.

I don't know SUVs very well but looking at the Cadillac, it looks like the XT6 is the twin to the Traverse. It does have a 6 year 70k mile powertrain warranty. If you must get this vehicle, I'd consider the Caddy for the better warranty.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
finite_difference
Posts: 3626
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by finite_difference »

Bikes4life wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:28 pm Sorry, no it is not. I meant pacifica haha.
Too many damn car models I have been looking at.
FWD and Michelin Climate Control 2 tires should get you virtually anywhere?
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
andypanda
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by andypanda »

I believe the Michelins might go well in the snow and ice after looking at the aggressive tread on them. I just put 4 225/45R18 CrossClimate2 on my wife's 2016 Avalon Touring. And they handle and ride well and are quiet. Her last set were Michelin Premier A/S

Otoh, I will still prefer to take my 4Runner shod with Michelin Defenders.
granite shoals
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:23 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by granite shoals »

JML wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:22 am Have you tried looking at smaller car seats? We did and it has worked well for us. The car seat lady has wonderful recommendations. Also if the cargo space is holding you back, have you thought about getting a trailer hitch and having a temporary cargo carrier? I would be surprised if you need all that cargo space all the time.
This. We have 3 young children and they all fit just fine in the second row of our 2015 Acura MDX. Though, now DW is now throwing out not so subtle hints at wanting a minivan.
shockwavesfan
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:44 am

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by shockwavesfan »

We have two kids and a dog that takes up a whole seat so I get your cargo concerns. We have an explorer so we have a car with similar cargo space.

The best thing we did was buy a cargo box for the top of the car for trips. It gets all the odd shaped luggage that doesn’t pack well out of the car and makes a huge difference. Get a cargo box and buy a new SUV and keep it for 10 years. You won’t regret it.
Vivbet
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun May 21, 2023 4:49 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Vivbet »

I would absolutely get the new car with the latest safety features. There is nothing more important than safety imo.

My daughter was in a very serious car accident recently. There was nothing left of the back of the car but she walked away unscathed. Plus the car called the police for her. Really glad she was in a new car.

Good luck with your purchase - all cars are ridiculously expensive these days!
SoFarSoGrand
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 05, 2023 8:11 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by SoFarSoGrand »

I also vote for getting a new car. Have you looked at the Highlander? I was recently at the Toyota dealership and they look pretty nice, but cargo room may be an issue. We had three kids under 2 and were able to fit three car seats across in my Ford Fusion at the time using Diono car seats, but we didn't need a lot of cargo space at first. Now we do and we have a Toyota Sienna and GMC Yukon. I like them both but they're not great on gas.
crossbow
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by crossbow »

OP, what kind of stuff do you lug around in the vehicle that families 15 years ago did not? The size of the average car not too long ago was much smaller than what it is today; most families got by on what would be considered sub-compact sedans by today's standards.

My point - instead of searching for a specific size of vehicle, is it possible to downsize the stuff you intend to carry around? That might give you more options in your search for a vehicle.
Wwwdotcom
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:35 pm

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by Wwwdotcom »

runner3081 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:42 pm
Bikes4life wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm I get this feeling that manufacturers are just playing games and keeping the market status quo by limiting production, so I am wondering if new car prices are just here to stay
Let's face it. Prices are not going down, they will level out, but aren't going down.
A model 3 is now about $33k after taxes etc. This has wide ranging impacts on both the new and used market for both ice and ev vehicles. Delivery drivers are now gobbling up these cars in mass.
andypanda
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Re: New or used car in today's market?

Post by andypanda »

I thought the Mazda model 3 was more like $23k, but I've only been shopping for a new 4Runner.
Post Reply