a great perspective.. thanks for articulating.JS-Elcano wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:36 pm I use my vacations exclusively to travel, almost always abroad.
I like being active and seeing the world. I enjoy planning the itinerary, finding hotels/airbnbs in the best places, checking out restaurants at which we might want to eat, figure out the various ways to get around, what to explore while there. Just opening the map of a city I have not been to gets me all excited. The anticipation of the trip is already part of the trip for me
While finding the best flight connections can be a bit of a chore I do it as early as I can, so it doesn't matter if I start searching for flights and then give up for that day; the next time am usually successful (our itineraries are often multi-city with somewhat flexible dates so there are so many options that I sometimes get overwhelmed and frustrated by how complex it is and how long it's taking). I focus on getting flights that leave at a reasonable time (no getting up at 5 AM to catch a 8 am flight for me), have 2-3 hour layovers so I am not stressing about connections if there is a delay, check out restaurants at the airport so I know where I can get a good bite, and find lounges that have good buffets/bars/showers. For overseas flights I also check the prices for upgrades and on occasion buy business class upgrades. I am also getting airport hotels now regularly either for the day of arrival if it's late or for the night before departure so I am not stressing about getting to the airport. So, the traveling itself is not a problem for me; in fact, I enjoy it. Who knows if this will change as I get older.
I am not big into museums, but do enjoy visiting the major ones in the world, both for art and history. I am more interested in the natural world and in exploring foreign cities, cultures, and cuisines, going on hikes or sailing. Sometimes we rent a car, but I much prefer trains, especially in Europe where trains are going nearly everywhere and rental cars often can't be rented across borders or one-way.
What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Travel or play golf. The only thing I’m trying to improve is my handicap.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
I see friends and family, get exercise, do things I think are fun like travel, boating, and pickleball, read bogleheads, visit sick or shut in friends, sex, volunteer at VA hospital, get old buddies together for a beer or soda, walk around the block with a bud, and play golf.
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Might as well mention our five year old, twelve page hobbies thread:
viewtopic.php?t=251870
Lots of variety in physical and mental stimulation.
viewtopic.php?t=251870
Lots of variety in physical and mental stimulation.
Meet my pet, Peeve, who loves to convert non-acronyms into acronyms: FED, ROTH, CASH, IVY, ...
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Many complain that traveling takes too much planning.
So don’t plan. Don’t optimize.
Pick a city or place and go. Figure out the rest once you get there.
So don’t plan. Don’t optimize.
Pick a city or place and go. Figure out the rest once you get there.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
It depends on what "work" is to you. My workday yesterday included muay thai and BJJ classes in the morning, coming home and answering a few emails and helping my kids with their summer homework, then a conditioning workout with my kids and hitting/kicking the bags for a bit, then a 30min TEAMs meeting, then going to the community pool, answering a few more emails, then going for a walk with my kids to the park before my wife got home from the office. I'll take that over most days of travel that I've ever had, and it's my normal day.
I did a lot of traveling early in my life when I was less encumbered by responsibilities and I did a lot for work until 3yrs ago; it's just not for me.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Why must one always be " productive"? I think we have been brain washed since thr industrial revolution to be good worker bees for our overloads. I work because Inhave to period. The world is such a big and interesting place that one lifetime is not even enough to experience all thr wonderful things out there. I am not defined by how " productive" I am for heartless corporations.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Marathons.
Race all over the country and soon to be internationally twice a year. We go a week early and take in the sites and activities of the cities.
Race all over the country and soon to be internationally twice a year. We go a week early and take in the sites and activities of the cities.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
My wife and I both enjoy wasting time and really have no interest in improving ourselves in any way, shape or form. We love going away, walking around in the West Village; sitting on the beach in summers; going to Europe when we can; giving to our favorite charities. We can't wait to retire in a couple of years so we can do more of nothing.alex123711 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:09 am When I take holidays I sort of feel like i'm wasting time and money, not really improving myself in any way etc. Any one else feel like this? Any recommendations or ideas?
We basically avoid self improvement at all costs. It's just a big scam to sell books and online programs.
"The big money is not in the buying and selling, but in the waiting." - Charles Munger
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
I chill out on vacation and explore. I don’t want to be constantly learning new stuff and being productive.
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
+1Keenobserver wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:31 pm Why must one always be " productive"? I think we have been brain washed since thr industrial revolution to be good worker bees for our overloads. I work because Inhave to period. The world is such a big and interesting place that one lifetime is not even enough to experience all thr wonderful things out there. I am not defined by how " productive" I am for heartless corporations.
And I hate it when a manager says something along the lines of "go get your restful vacation and come back refreshed at work". Yeah, right! Poor fool thinks I live to work for them.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
OP, I get the same feeling as you when I do nothing on my vacations. But that's the whole point of it. To slow down from the monotonous grind of work and productivity and expectations to upskill etc. To stop and smell the roses. As someone else mentioned, count your days left on this planet so it all comes in to perspective. Work to live and not the other way around!
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
There is something deeper in this discussion. If you are a work to live person, this question generally won’t surface.
I just saw that Jamie Dimon has political aspirations. Another live to work person. It’s good for my stock portfolio to have ‘live to workers’
I just saw that Jamie Dimon has political aspirations. Another live to work person. It’s good for my stock portfolio to have ‘live to workers’
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
We are all wired differently. I have nobody but myself telling me I must be productive. Even on vacation I'm compelled to achieve something: climb a specific mountain, workout in an environment I never have before, finally read a specific book, etc. I WFH and don't actually have to work a lot; admittedly, way too much of my time is spent on this board, but otherwise I'm not using my free time to watch Netflix or Youtube videos - I am actively doing something in attempt to better myself most of the day. Being productive doesn't have to be connected to your job, most of the productive things I do are not. That's just me.srt7 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:35 pm+1Keenobserver wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:31 pm Why must one always be " productive"? I think we have been brain washed since thr industrial revolution to be good worker bees for our overloads. I work because Inhave to period. The world is such a big and interesting place that one lifetime is not even enough to experience all thr wonderful things out there. I am not defined by how " productive" I am for heartless corporations.
And I hate it when a manager says something along the lines of "go get your restful vacation and come back refreshed at work". Yeah, right! Poor fool thinks I live to work for them.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?srt7 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:35 pm+1Keenobserver wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:31 pm Why must one always be " productive"? I think we have been brain washed since thr industrial revolution to be good worker bees for our overloads. I work because Inhave to period. The world is such a big and interesting place that one lifetime is not even enough to experience all thr wonderful things out there. I am not defined by how " productive" I am for heartless corporations.
And I hate it when a manager says something along the lines of "go get your restful vacation and come back refreshed at work". Yeah, right! Poor fool thinks I live to work for them.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
I used to take one vacation a year. It was usually used to just recharge at home and not do much. Sometimes, it was used to re-start an old habit (go back to the gym).
Lately, I have been taking two vacations a year (I get more vacation time now). One is to recharge at home, and the other is usually spent on a beach to recharge.
I think this would change once I stop working.
Lately, I have been taking two vacations a year (I get more vacation time now). One is to recharge at home, and the other is usually spent on a beach to recharge.
I think this would change once I stop working.
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Sounds like you have not yet discovered some things you are passionate about, that give you pleasure. We were introduced to sailing by a co-worker in 1980 and it became a passion, and we got out most weekends to learn on a trailerable 17 footer. By 86 we'd learned enough and bought a 26 footer in Florida and sailed to the Bahamas for the summer and subsequently changed jobs to one that gave me summers off to match spouses schedule, so continued sailing every summer through 2021. (retired in 2013 and added exploring the SW to camp and see the beauty of that part of US as well as walking the beaches of the Yucatan for a few months every winter). Stumbled on Petroglyphs and in researching that, it too has become a passion. Lasy summer transitioned to a trawler, so still boating every summer, and land exploring. Hope you find some things you're amazed and passionate about.alex123711 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:09 am When I take holidays I sort of feel like i'm wasting time and money, not really improving myself in any way etc. Any one else feel like this? Any recommendations or ideas?
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
For general time off, not traveling:
I’m a sports fan. There is always something to watch, especially cricket games which can last days! Brings me back to my school summer days. Playing sport, watching sport, playing monopoly. Simple pleasures.
I’m a sports fan. There is always something to watch, especially cricket games which can last days! Brings me back to my school summer days. Playing sport, watching sport, playing monopoly. Simple pleasures.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ |
“How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Not sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
I disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:04 amNot sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
People find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:58 pmI disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:04 amNot sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
No, I don't feel like this. I actually have done the opposite this year by taking much more time off this year in order to coach / drive my kids to and from sports and activities. During time off, I use the time to destress, workout, take some "me" time, have a lunch date with the wife, do some chores around the house, play with the kids, etc. I never have a "I'm bored" moment, despite some weeks working as little as 12-24 hours.
I've found time off from work is just as important, if not more important, than time dedicated to work.
I've found time off from work is just as important, if not more important, than time dedicated to work.
Light weight baby!
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
DoorDash business.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
This.RobLyons wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:53 pm No, I don't feel like this. I actually have done the opposite this year by taking much more time off this year in order to coach / drive my kids to and from sports and activities. During time off, I use the time to destress, workout, take some "me" time, have a lunch date with the wife, do some chores around the house, play with the kids, etc. I never have a "I'm bored" moment, despite some weeks working as little as 12-24 hours.
I've found time off from work is just as important, if not more important, than time dedicated to work.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Choosing to continue to work vs not being able to find any purpose outside of work are two very distinct realities. I would imagine that's self evident. Yes I do make judgments about people's priorities based on what they say, and thats a perfectly natural thing to do. In fact, we make judgments several dozen time a day, and pretending that you are somehow an exception is disingenuous. To each their own. My line of work allows me access to people from all walks of life very often on the terminal stretch of life. Which often means they drop their guard and are very honest, and open. Over the last 14 years, I dont recall anyone wanting to share their " work" history and reminisce about " conpleting peojects" and " meeting deadlines." Funny how the prospect of death simplifies everything. To each their own.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pmPeople find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:58 pmI disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:04 amNot sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
The last paragraph stands out!Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:56 pmChoosing to continue to work vs not being able to find any purpose outside of work are two very distinct realities. I would imagine that's self evident. Yes I do make judgments about people's priorities based on what they say, and thats a perfectly natural thing to do. In fact, we make judgments several dozen time a day, and pretending that you are somehow an exception is disingenuous. To each their own. My line of work allows me access to people from all walks of life very often on the terminal stretch of life. Which often means they drop their guard and are very honest, and open.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pmPeople find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:58 pmI disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:04 amNot sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
Over the last 14 years, I dont recall anyone wanting to share their " work" history and reminisce about " conpleting peojects" and " meeting deadlines." Funny how the prospect of death simplifies everything. To each their own.
I’ll give another example of a profession with high esteem, social value, respect etc. College professor. A family member retired in their 70s, and I believe thoroughly enjoyed his profession.
However, some of their retirement dreams and travel is curtailed. Health and family issues.
Was the last 5 years worth it spending tied to the college schedule? What was the opportunity cost? Professor already had an outstanding and honorable career teaching at age 60 or 65?
These are tough questions to ask. I may ask them if I get a chance.
It’s definitely an American thing to over rotate on self worth at your job. In most cases, other places on earth are more transactional re: career and work. Perhaps the answer is in the middle, and that is the struggle most of us on this board need to find.
I will say this, medicine and teaching are two professions where you can end up doing less work towards the end of your career and have more respect. I.e. experience is valued.
In other areas (Tech) the above scenario is much less likely. In fact the higher up you go, the more stressful the role, higher/unachievable expectations, and I think less happier people than younger/less experienced. Ymmv, but this is the reason Tech may lead to more early retirement (everything else being equal).
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
This topic is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (recreational activities).
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
+1TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:24 amJust yesterday, I was reading (Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke) and feeling good. I stopped reading for a bit, which became a longer bit of time, and realized that I was really enjoying listening to the birds; they were singing their lungs out, how do such small creatures do it? Then I wondered if I was like the old people you see in movies, sitting in a wheelchair just looking out over the property. Then I made my peace with it and thought that I had no obligation to improve myself or learn something (yet, anyway, I try to learn something every day); I have paid my dues and can just enjoy listening to birds.alex123711 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:09 am When I take holidays I sort of feel like i'm wasting time and money, not really improving myself in any way etc. Any one else feel like this? Any recommendations or ideas?
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anybody saying they have no purpose outside of work, just that their work may add to it. AgainKeenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:56 pmChoosing to continue to work vs not being able to find any purpose outside of work are two very distinct realities. I would imagine that's self evident. Yes I do make judgments about people's priorities based on what they say, and thats a perfectly natural thing to do. In fact, we make judgments several dozen time a day, and pretending that you are somehow an exception is disingenuous. To each their own. My line of work allows me access to people from all walks of life very often on the terminal stretch of life. Which often means they drop their guard and are very honest, and open. Over the last 14 years, I dont recall anyone wanting to share their " work" history and reminisce about " conpleting peojects" and " meeting deadlines." Funny how the prospect of death simplifies everything. To each their own.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pmPeople find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:58 pmI disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:04 amNot sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:50 am Yes, and also so many people here saying that " Love" their jobs and cant imagine retiring. Really, is the world so colorless that being a wage slave is the best we can do?
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I also am in healthcare, dealing with people who are dying and I agree that I don't see them reminiscing about work projects or deadlines, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to your original statement. Work fills different buckets for all of us; I know it is much different for my wife and I (I have a "dream job", but work is just a source of income for me, totally different for my wife), as well as it is for others I know well. Humans are not a monolith. I am certain your statement rings true for some, but it is not for others.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Perhaps " wage slave" is too harsh a term and you might be right in that I am painting too large a brush. I still feel that there is a little too much emphasis in being defined by what you do to pay your bills. That can be applied to all levels of occupations. I have enjoyed my job over the years, but I will drop it in a heartbeat if I can to spend more time with my aging parents, rapidly growing kids, and the see more of the big wide blue planet out there. I was born with an expiration date.stoptothink wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:32 amMaybe I missed it, but I don't see anybody saying they have no purpose outside of work, just that their work may add to it. AgainKeenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:56 pmChoosing to continue to work vs not being able to find any purpose outside of work are two very distinct realities. I would imagine that's self evident. Yes I do make judgments about people's priorities based on what they say, and thats a perfectly natural thing to do. In fact, we make judgments several dozen time a day, and pretending that you are somehow an exception is disingenuous. To each their own. My line of work allows me access to people from all walks of life very often on the terminal stretch of life. Which often means they drop their guard and are very honest, and open. Over the last 14 years, I dont recall anyone wanting to share their " work" history and reminisce about " conpleting peojects" and " meeting deadlines." Funny how the prospect of death simplifies everything. To each their own.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pmPeople find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:58 pmI disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:04 am
Not sure everyone considers what they do professionally as "being a wage slave." If you work on an assembly line making shoes, sure. Someone working their entire life in scientific research might feel very differently.
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I also am in healthcare, dealing with people who are dying and I agree that I don't see them reminiscing about work projects or deadlines, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to your original statement. Work fills different buckets for all of us; I know it is much different for my wife and I (I have a "dream job", but work is just a source of income for me, totally different for my wife), as well as it is for others I know well. Humans are not a monolith. I am certain your statement rings true for some, but it is not for others.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
It is that expiration date which makes me want to continue to work.The work I have done over the years makes it a bit easier to swallow the fact that I am headed toward my inevitable demise. I can picture myself reflecting on the years spent at my job as I near the end.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:43 amPerhaps " wage slave" is too harsh a term and you might be right in that I am painting too large a brush. I still feel that there is a little too much emphasis in being defined by what you do to pay your bills. That can be applied to all levels of occupations. I have enjoyed my job over the years, but I will drop it in a heartbeat if I can to spend more time with my aging parents, rapidly growing kids, and the see more of the big wide blue planet out there. I was born with an expiration date.stoptothink wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:32 amMaybe I missed it, but I don't see anybody saying they have no purpose outside of work, just that their work may add to it. AgainKeenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:56 pmChoosing to continue to work vs not being able to find any purpose outside of work are two very distinct realities. I would imagine that's self evident. Yes I do make judgments about people's priorities based on what they say, and thats a perfectly natural thing to do. In fact, we make judgments several dozen time a day, and pretending that you are somehow an exception is disingenuous. To each their own. My line of work allows me access to people from all walks of life very often on the terminal stretch of life. Which often means they drop their guard and are very honest, and open. Over the last 14 years, I dont recall anyone wanting to share their " work" history and reminisce about " conpleting peojects" and " meeting deadlines." Funny how the prospect of death simplifies everything. To each their own.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pmPeople find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:58 pm
I disagree. Its not a matter of " blue collar" vs " white collar" I work in the medical field and my profession requires being upto date with the latest medical/ pharmacological research. Someone working at a shoe factory assembly line is not inherently less valuable than me, neither is he/ she anymore qualified in feeling like a " wage slave." That comment is a bit classist and condensing TBH. I think regardless of the status of what you do to make a living, its sad to think that one cannot imagine themselves existing outside of that role. For example, feeling " unproductive" because you dared to take a vacation. This mentality reeks of decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen. I cringe when I hear people whose identities have been stripped off them through decades of wage slavery, that they cannot imagine a life outside of those assinged roles. Its similiar to what happend after the civil war. Millions of emancipated slaves who had no idea how to live their lives outside of the roles they were given their whole lives. The world is so huge and wonderful that one lifetime time is not enough to experience it all. However, I am supposed to feel guilty not contributing to the bottom line of some souless entinty that wants to become.even bigger?
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I also am in healthcare, dealing with people who are dying and I agree that I don't see them reminiscing about work projects or deadlines, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to your original statement. Work fills different buckets for all of us; I know it is much different for my wife and I (I have a "dream job", but work is just a source of income for me, totally different for my wife), as well as it is for others I know well. Humans are not a monolith. I am certain your statement rings true for some, but it is not for others.
If I didn’t need to work for the money, I would still continue to do so. I don’t completely lack imagination and there are other things I’d like to do with my time so I may move up my retirement date a bit and reduce hours worked in the meantime but I’m just not ready to hang it up completely at this stage (I am 48 years old).
I don’t judge anyone who feels differently about their work as we all find happiness and purpose differently.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
My wife doesn't have to work and that was our intention when we married. That lasted all of ~4 months...Work is many things to her that are totally unrelated to money: an opportunity to push herself in a different way, an easy way to meet and socialize with like-minded people, an opportunity to help/serve others. I am totally different despite having a job that is much closer to the "dream job" than hers' is. We are very fortunate in that our current jobs do not stop us from really doing anything we want to do: I am full-time WFH and I have total autonomy while she is hybrid and has slightly less - we both generally have the opportunity to work from wherever we want and spend a ton of time with our kids and family. Both of us intend to "work" when we are totally financially independent and had our fill of the corporate world, just not for money.Ron Ronnerson wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:00 amIt is that expiration date which makes me want to continue to work.The work I have done over the years makes it a bit easier to swallow the fact that I am headed toward my inevitable demise. I can picture myself reflecting on the years spent at my job as I near the end.Keenobserver wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:43 amPerhaps " wage slave" is too harsh a term and you might be right in that I am painting too large a brush. I still feel that there is a little too much emphasis in being defined by what you do to pay your bills. That can be applied to all levels of occupations. I have enjoyed my job over the years, but I will drop it in a heartbeat if I can to spend more time with my aging parents, rapidly growing kids, and the see more of the big wide blue planet out there. I was born with an expiration date.stoptothink wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:32 amMaybe I missed it, but I don't see anybody saying they have no purpose outside of work, just that their work may add to it. AgainKeenobserver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:56 pmChoosing to continue to work vs not being able to find any purpose outside of work are two very distinct realities. I would imagine that's self evident. Yes I do make judgments about people's priorities based on what they say, and thats a perfectly natural thing to do. In fact, we make judgments several dozen time a day, and pretending that you are somehow an exception is disingenuous. To each their own. My line of work allows me access to people from all walks of life very often on the terminal stretch of life. Which often means they drop their guard and are very honest, and open. Over the last 14 years, I dont recall anyone wanting to share their " work" history and reminisce about " conpleting peojects" and " meeting deadlines." Funny how the prospect of death simplifies everything. To each their own.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pm
People find purpose in all kinds of different things. I actually conduct scientific research for a living, and while it is not my purpose (and I wouldn't do it for free), IMO you telling others that the only reason they find purpose in their job is "decades of capitalist brain washing where making souless corporations even richer is suddenly a " higher calling" and the ultimate goal of every " productive" citizen...." is a lot more judgmental than the statement you were responding to.
There are a ton of people on this board who could easily quit tomorrow but continue to work for various reasons; I would not characterize them as "wage slaves" regardless of what it is they do.
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I also am in healthcare, dealing with people who are dying and I agree that I don't see them reminiscing about work projects or deadlines, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to your original statement. Work fills different buckets for all of us; I know it is much different for my wife and I (I have a "dream job", but work is just a source of income for me, totally different for my wife), as well as it is for others I know well. Humans are not a monolith. I am certain your statement rings true for some, but it is not for others.
If I didn’t need to work for the money, I would still continue to do so. I don’t completely lack imagination and there are other things I’d like to do with my time so I may move up my retirement date a bit and reduce hours worked in the meantime but I’m just not ready to hang it up completely at this stage (I am 48 years old).
I don’t judge anyone who feels differently about their work as we all find happiness and purpose differently.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
I recently found a nature sounds video on YouTube that has about eight hours of high-quality meadow sounds, with birds predominating. I would have thought it would be boring to listen to but it isn't. It's amazing how it kind of stills the senses yet fully engages.TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:24 am
Just yesterday, I was reading (Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke) and feeling good. I stopped reading for a bit, which became a longer bit of time, and realized that I was really enjoying listening to the birds; they were singing their lungs out, how do such small creatures do it? Then I wondered if I was like the old people you see in movies, sitting in a wheelchair just looking out over the property. Then I made my peace with it and thought that I had no obligation to improve myself or learn something (yet, anyway, I try to learn something every day); I have paid my dues and can just enjoy listening to birds.
And laughing about the birds singing their lungs out. Initially, there's this one bird that kind of dominates the "conversation" and I keep waiting for the bird to let the others join in.
I'm from a family of world travelers, so that's the background of my youth. But as I've seen the world become increasingly crowded and touristy, and not being one who likes scheduling and scrutinizing train timetables, I'm happy to find activities to do at home.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Would you mind sharing a link to the nature YouTube video?roamingzebra wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:10 pmI recently found a nature sounds video on YouTube that has about eight hours of high-quality meadow sounds, with birds predominating. I would have thought it would be boring to listen to but it isn't. It's amazing how it kind of stills the senses yet fully engages.TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:24 am
Just yesterday, I was reading (Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke) and feeling good. I stopped reading for a bit, which became a longer bit of time, and realized that I was really enjoying listening to the birds; they were singing their lungs out, how do such small creatures do it? Then I wondered if I was like the old people you see in movies, sitting in a wheelchair just looking out over the property. Then I made my peace with it and thought that I had no obligation to improve myself or learn something (yet, anyway, I try to learn something every day); I have paid my dues and can just enjoy listening to birds.
And laughing about the birds singing their lungs out. Initially, there's this one bird that kind of dominates the "conversation" and I keep waiting for the bird to let the others join in.
I'm from a family of world travelers, so that's the background of my youth. But as I've seen the world become increasingly crowded and touristy, and not being one who likes scheduling and scrutinizing train timetables, I'm happy to find activities to do at home.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Typically, I spend time with the family on holidays. On vacations, we travel (nice to see other parts of the world that we temporarily reside in), catch up on stuff around the house, exercise a bit more, and other odds & ends.
Life is not always about continuous improvement; that just sounds like work.
RM
Life is not always about continuous improvement; that just sounds like work.
RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
This is very personal, so it's best to figure out what would make you feel fulfilled. I cannot travel with friends and family, for the most part, because all I want to do is stay in museums and visit historical sites, and I like doing it at a slow pace. I've gone on trips with relatives that felt like an episode of the Amazing Race and hated it - I don't see a point in checking things you must "see" off a list. When I go with friends, they will invariably want to spend hours shopping or gabbing away in good restaurants, etc., which I also find incredibly pointless. And my husband's love is the outdoors - endless amounts of hiking ... even more than the average hiker. I'm nowhere near as fit as he is, so I cannot go on the trips that he goes on.
So, a lot of my time off is usually spent alone. I try to arrange work in a way so I can take extended periods off. My last trip was for three weeks to Istanbul on my own, one of my favorite cities. I read three books about the city while exploring places: an academic history of Istanbul, a memoir, and the ever-trusty Blue Guide. I didn't have a set itinerary, but I did have places I wanted to visit/re-visit. I woke up when I felt like it, dined wherever I felt like, and adventured wherever I felt like. It was glorious. I no longer feel guilted into trips I don't want to take, no matter how much pressure people try to subject me to, and that's what works for me. You know, you could live half a lifetime in some of these truly old cities and barely scratch the surface, so there's no reason to stress yourself trying to do ten thousand things in a short time.
So, a lot of my time off is usually spent alone. I try to arrange work in a way so I can take extended periods off. My last trip was for three weeks to Istanbul on my own, one of my favorite cities. I read three books about the city while exploring places: an academic history of Istanbul, a memoir, and the ever-trusty Blue Guide. I didn't have a set itinerary, but I did have places I wanted to visit/re-visit. I woke up when I felt like it, dined wherever I felt like, and adventured wherever I felt like. It was glorious. I no longer feel guilted into trips I don't want to take, no matter how much pressure people try to subject me to, and that's what works for me. You know, you could live half a lifetime in some of these truly old cities and barely scratch the surface, so there's no reason to stress yourself trying to do ten thousand things in a short time.
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Re: What do you do on holidays/ time off?
Here ya go. Enjoy.jaqenhghar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:06 pmWould you mind sharing a link to the nature YouTube video?roamingzebra wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:10 pm I recently found a nature sounds video on YouTube that has about eight hours of high-quality meadow sounds, with birds predominating. I would have thought it would be boring to listen to but it isn't. It's amazing how it kind of stills the senses yet fully engages.
And laughing about the birds singing their lungs out. Initially, there's this one bird that kind of dominates the "conversation" and I keep waiting for the bird to let the others join in.
Relaxing Meadow with Ambient Nature Sounds, Wildflowers, and Mountain View