Do you track your returns, and if so, why?

[asset_chaos]

I update a spreadsheet once a year, usually shortly after the end of the calendar year. I check individual funds against their benchmark or whatever I'm using for a benchmark if a fund is not strictly an index fund. I could take it for granted that every fund has behaved as I expect it to, but I prefer to actually measure and check that each fund behaved as expected.

[Stef]

I track everything by the end of each month.

Gross salary
Net salary
Saved total
Invested total
How much I put in each account and portfolio
Balance of each account and portfolio
RE value, mortgage and net value after taxes/costs
Monthly portfolio return
And others (probably 30 columns in total)

Why? Because it‘s fun.

[Derpalator]

Question: If one is adding to one's investments every year, how do you account for that in your return tracking? Do you simply take the account value on January 1 and December 31, subtract out any new investments or withdrawals, and then calculate the % change?

Fidelity and my 457b account will give you a YTD return, I'm not sure how contributions are factored in. I don't contribute to my rollover IRA, so that's easy enough.

Where does Fidelity have this? I just checked my Fidelity "Year End Investment Report" and don't see it. Searching "returns" or similar on the Fidelity site does not yield it. I found my Schwab accounts do have returns calculated over any period within the past 5 years. Thanks!

Click "performance" from the main page (may be listed under "more") after login. Can choose specific account or "all" and look at 3 month YTD and 3, 5, and 10 year returns and up to life of account(s). Can choose annualized vs cumulative returns. Returns are calculated as time-weighted rate of return. Can compare against indices of choice to ensure one is getting market returns or better for the allocation involved. So I rarely do the calculations myself but have done so in the past to double check Fidelity's calculations.

Another nice feature on same page is the ability to look at interest/dividends/deposits/dispersals by month with end of period totals. Separates out gains/losses also by market changes.

Hope this helps. Cheers!

[NiceUnparticularMan]

Another no.

It isn't useful information to me, and also regular tracking of investment results is well-known in the literature to sharply increase the risk of behavioral errors.

[balbrec2]

Quarterly, for possible rebalancing purposes.

[ruralavalon]

. . . . .

Question: If one is adding to one's investments every year, how do you account for that in your return tracking? Do you simply take the account value on January 1 and December 31, subtract out any new investments or withdrawals, and then calculate the % change?

Vanguard gives you a 10year annualized portfolio return ignoring contributions/withdrawals. Schwab only goes back to 2016. I wish these would give longer periods of returns for how your investments are doing

At Vanguard under the "Performance" tab

How we calculate performance.

Personal performance uses a dollar-weighted return formula called internal rate of return (IRR) to calculate your personal rate of return. IRR compares the initial purchase prices of the investment against the current price while also factoring in new money coming into your investment and how long that investment has been held.
. . . . .

Just out of curiosity, I also wish they gave personal performance over longer periods, like 15 and 20 years. The "performance" number at Vanguard does account for contributions and withdrawals.

[AdrianC]

When we got married we merged our Quicken accounts (romantic, I know). She has kept the one account up ever since, still named "Married".

We have 22 years of data. Quicken will give us our IRR. Not sure how useful that is. It would be far too much work to try to simulate all the cashflows into some hypothetical benchmark. It is nice to see a pleasing IRR number, though.

[Hydromod]

I track daily price movements in a spreadsheet, and have for several years. The spreadsheet calculates returns.

The main reason is that I've developed and am using/testing an active strategy with 3x LETFs using a small part of the portfolio, and I'm monitoring how it behaves before committing a larger amount to it. I want to learn how it works, calibrate expectations, and get desensitized to normal fluctuations. I track the normal portfolio as a control.

I never paid much attention to my main portfolio, quarterly reports at best. But it's getting close to retirement so we're working out future expectations and tracking milestones. NW is of much more interest than returns per se.

[calmaniac]

Where does Fidelity have this? I just checked my Fidelity "Year End Investment Report" and don't see it. Searching "returns" or similar on the Fidelity site does not yield it. I found my Schwab accounts do have returns calculated over any period within the past 5 years. Thanks!

Click "performance" from the main page (may be listed under "more") after login. Can choose specific account or "all" and look at 3 month YTD and 3, 5, and 10 year returns and up to life of account(s). Can choose annualized vs cumulative returns. Returns are calculated as time-weighted rate of return. Can compare against indices of choice to ensure one is getting market returns or better for the allocation involved. So I rarely do the calculations myself but have done so in the past to double check Fidelity's calculations.

Another nice feature on same page is the ability to look at interest/dividends/deposits/dispersals by month with end of period totals. Separates out gains/losses also by market changes.

Hope this helps. Cheers!

Thank you Derpalator! Very helpful.

Wow, kind of mind boggling (Bogle-ing?) returns when you look back 20-25 years.

[HeavyChevy]

Heck no!

Plausible deniability.

[placeholder]

No just a once a month run of the numbers plugged into the spreadsheet that will check the asset allocation and flag any rebalancing needed and spit out the bottom line.

[Metsfan91]

"Do you track?" - Yes. I do it nightly on the days the market is open. I have a spreadsheet setup. It takes only a few seconds to update the spreadsheet.

"Why?" - I want to know "How am I doing?" Which fund class is doing well/poorly? Where the extra new money should go?

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

Nah. I'm 5 years retired; most of my stash in a target retirement fund at Vanguard, in index funds. If the markets are doing ok, so am I. If not
....

I just add everything up once a year, and calculate the current % I'm withdrawing. Every blue moon I look up my asset allocation in Portfolio Visualizer (I aim to keep it 50/50). So far, so good.

No spreadsheets or other headache-inducing stuff for me!

[Derpalator]

Heck no!

Plausible deniability.

I see a future in politics for you!

[cjking]

I keep track of all my financial transactions in Moneydance. Data goes back to 1 January 1995. One if its standard reports will tell me my IRR over any period I care to specify. Knowing my IRR is more interesting and useful than knowing (for example) what I spent on fuel for my car nearly three decades ago, but I wouldn't say that I tracked it, more that the information is available, with zero marginal effort, if I want to look at it.

[smectym]

I track my retirement portfolio balance yearly relative to my prior projections. I enjoy it (when the balance is increasing!), and it helps me see how far off reality is from my expectations of reality.

I keep track of my balance (but not projections since I make none). The balance, of course, can be influenced by many things unrelated to returns. It is also an essential ingredient in understanding if there are sufficient funds to get you from today into the ground.

Also a balance tracker—both necessary and a mild challenge bc our funds are fragmented, some here some there. I don’t track returns so much.

[xxd091]

Been tracking every financial transactions using Quicken
Since 1998
Gave me a real handle on retirement income- I retired in 2003-now 77 years old
Inclusion of my wife re inputting her financial transactions-mostly clothes and food purchases gives her an real understanding of our financial status as she opens Quicken home page each week
This seems to reduce if not eliminate any financial arguments between us--one of the major “bones of contention “ between married couples?
The Quicken home page lets us both see where we are in real time -there’s the money- that’s what we have!
We update once a week
Should be part of Marriage Guidance?
xxd091

[AdrianC]

This seems to reduce if not eliminate any financial arguments between us--one of the major “bones of contention “ between married couples?
The Quicken home page lets us both see where we are in real time -there’s the money- that’s what we have!
We update once a week
Should be part of Marriage Guidance?
xxd091

Works for us too. But we knew we were pretty compatible money-wise going in. We both used Quicken separately and both were prodigious savers. We read Millionaire Next Door and agreed that’s what we wanted.

[FIRWYW]

I am glad someone else asked the question. I follow a blogger/podcaster who is adamant that you need to be tracking your personal returns. However I find that when I look at that it makes me more tempted to try to time the market. If I have set an allocation to stick with long term, I don’t see a reason. I think it is more likely to introduce behavioral error. (Ie moving out of SCV or international when down compared to TSM)

That being said, empower or quicken tracks the net worth and value of accounts automatically. If I log into an account it shows the personal returns as well. I just have to remind myself that one account with (example REITS and bonds) being lower than the accounts with international and TSM, does not matter. The allocation across accounts is what I want it at.

[doobiedoo]

For those of you using Quicken, are you paying a monthly subscription fee? Or a one-time fee upon purchase?
Do you have to pay to get software updates?
What if I don't care about banking access? Do I still need the updates? [And pay for them?]

[racy]

Yes, I track my portfolio balance monthly. Why? Same reason I visit this forum daily: it's interesting to me.

[Logan Roy]

I always had a real dilemma over how to track returns, taking into account inflows and outflows.

We know many mutual funds that *do* appear to beat the market (through asset selection/timing) actually underperform significantly, because investors move money in and out of these funds *after* periods of over/under-performance.. So the dollar-weighted return might say one thing, but the time-weighted return another.

So I got into the habit of vaguely tracking net worth – as anything I'm moving around in the system could make it appear that I'm doing better/worse than I am. Asset selection is at least equally as important as timing. When I've got large inflows from work, I don't really need to position as defensively; when I'm not working, it makes a lot more sense to protect capital. There's no simple solution I can find. Other than tracking net worth, and considering every decision (from buying stocks to buying cars) a capital allocation decision, and treating myself like a business. Which does make sense, because then you can get an idea of how competent/not you are, and whether you need to change something – as with any business.

[Yarlonkol12]

I login a few times a month to make sure my money is actually still there and download my statements

[xxd091]

I have an original Quicken 2004 disc-still available out there?
I bought a second hand older desktop and laptop (Dell) that run XP which Quicken likes!
These are standalone computers-no internet connections and not used for anything else
Use desktop as the prime computer for working with and backup to laptop via USB stick once a week after our expenses entry
Enter fund value as required from a dummy Trustnet portfolio (free) that updates stock prices automatically
Only have 3 index funds so not a big deal
That’s it
xxd091

[WillRetire]

Yes, I track performance YTD and annually of individual holdings, asset classes, and overall, using financial software that takes into account all transactions. This is to check that the portofolio is performing as expected, with rebalancing, distributions and withdrawals taken into account. My holdings are more diverse than S&P500 index funds.

The results give me confidence that I am doing things right, and not to worry (too much).

And I learn from it. For example, the "stable" fund in my 401K has had a low rate of return compared to other cash equivalents of late, and so I did some swapping to get out of it entirely while maintaining the same AA.

[WillRetire]

I have an original Quicken 2004 disc-still available out there?
I bought a second hand older desktop and laptop (Dell) that run XP which Quicken likes!
These are standalone computers-no internet connections and not used for anything else
Use desktop as the prime computer for working with and backup to laptop via USB stick once a week after our expenses entry
Enter fund value as required from a dummy Trustnet portfolio (free) that updates stock prices automatically
Only have 3 index funds so not a big deal
That’s it
xxd091

I use DOSBox.

[dkturner]

Virtually all of our portfolio is held at Vanguard, so we don’t have to worry about tracking our performance. It’s updated (for 1, 3, 5, and 10 year annualized returns) each month. I sometimes question the accuracy of Vanguard’s calculations but, since they sometimes exceed the Microsoft Excel XIRR return, I’m happy with the results.

[Sandi_k]

Does it serve a purpose on an individual level to track your returns? If you are investing like a boglehead, why would tracking your individual returns be necessary?

I check balances monthly, and update my spreadsheet - but I don't track returns except at the end of the year. For several reasons:

1) I want to confirm that my monthly contribution has been processed.

2) We are converting DH's SEP-IRA to a Roth, so we move money monthly from pre-tax to Roth accounts.

3) I find having years of these records help us behaviorally. When things tanked in March 2020, we were able to check, and see that our account balances were equivalent to the balances in 2018. Were we panicked then? No. So why panic now? It's all within the volatility range of +/- 50%. Some years are better than others. So we didn't sell and lock in losses in a flight to cash.

4) Over time, my need to "slice and dice" a portion of the portfolio has waned, based on our own experience. The most consistent growth has come from the FSKAX fund. Our slices in biotech, health funds, and innovation funds have not done as well. So, over time, we're converging to a simplified portfolio.

5) By checking monthly, I can see when rebalancing is needed, per our IPS.

[DetroitRick]

For those of you using Quicken, are you paying a monthly subscription fee? Or a one-time fee upon purchase?
Do you have to pay to get software updates?
What if I don't care about banking access? Do I still need the updates? [And pay for them?]

Last I looked there are 3 versions for Windows, 2 for Mac. All of which will handle investments (I use Premier). All are by subscription. Standard pricing, not including promos, ranges from $4.99 to $9.99 monthly (billed annually). For example, I get billed $83.88 yearly ($6.99) for Premier. They also have a web-based version call Simplifi, $3.99 monthly. It has some investment tracking capability, but I don't know enough about Simplifi to be specific.

All software updates, and they are frequent, are included. Never additional cost.

You can easily control access to whatever subset of your accounts that you want. By institution and by account - you choose. Banks, credit cards, brokers, etc. Quicken will only download transactions for those accounts you set up for download. Some or all - completely your choice. Updates tend to cover multiple functions, so whatever you choose to access you will want to do the free updates. But, sure, you could use Quicken solely for investment tracking and skip the other functions.

[Artsdoctor]

Does it serve a purpose on an individual level to track your returns? If you are investing like a boglehead, why would tracking your individual returns be necessary?

I think it's important to track your returns when you start investing because you'll be able to verify you're not far from your benchmark. It keeps you honest. The trick is to find an appropriate benchmark (it doesn't make sense to have a 60/40 portfolio and compare it the S&P 500). Sometimes you can use something like a LifeStrategy Fund for a comparison and sometimes you'll need to just make your simple benchmark (say, Total Stock + Total International + Total Bond in the appropriate percentages). I did this for several years and after I developed enough confidence to convince myself I was matching an appropriate benchmark, I stopped doing it.

[blackbird]

I'll add to the chorus that says I don't track returns. No need. I used to out of curiosity (portfolio IRR in Excel) but gave it up. I'm invested in the market according to my asset allocation. I do occasionally look at my Vanguard Performance figures. It doesn't pick up my retirement balances (401k) for much of the period but I get the idea. It varies quite a bit depending on the period you choose and when you look at it.

Like others, I do watch my asset allocation carefully but given inflows I've kept it in-line. Most of my adds in recent years have gone into tax-exempt fixed income (taxable account). One of the benefits of investing in the market is that you know that's the return you're achieving. If you're tilting off-market then you'll have tracking error and you can either feel satisfied (if good) or dissatisfied (if bad) against it over time. Tends to average out.

Blackbird

[Stoic9]

I track monthly, yearly, 5yr. Now that I've been retired 6 years I'd say it is strictly for fun. It is easy as I have not had to touch it since I retired.

[GaryA505]

I get an email everyday showing what happened that day. My only responses are:
A. Oh look, the stock market was up today,
or
B. Oh look, the stock market was down today.

That's it.

[UpperNwGuy]

My investments are in a three-fund portfolio of Total US, Total exUS, and Intermediate Treasuries. I rebalance when needed (which isn't often). What's to track?

[Charles Joseph]

No I do not.

Fidelity and Vanguard do it for me.

Then I look.

[water2357]

Word of caution if you think Vanguard is calculating your returns accurately, see the thread on the $800,000 fine Vanguard received from FINRA.

viewtopic.php?t=405404

And as noted there, the Vanguard "Performance" reporting mechanism contains grossly inaccurate data for balances, transactions, deposit/withdrawals, dividends, interest, gain/losses, etc.

[futurenoodle]

Only returns to Amazon.

Historical returns for portfolio aren't meaningful to me so I don't keep track. It isn't something that would change my behavior going forward.

But historical returns, I’m assuming, are what got you investing in the first place…? Interesting logic, care to explain?

[Mr. Rumples]

Yes. I track where I have been, where I am at, of course the future is unknown. My spending is flexible but there are things I would like to do to ensure I can stay in my home and this helps me budget. I bought AKREX (Akre Focus) upon its inception and sold it when the founder, Chuck Akre left and while the going was good. I used the proceeds to buy FSKAX (Fidelity Total Market Index) and do a few things (new roof, new driveway &c.)

[dcabler]

No, I don't track my returns. I do track the value of my portfolio over time, however, as that's what matters most to me. From time to time I'll check capital gains in my taxable account to look for possible, meaningful sized, tax loss harvesting opportunities, but that's about it. Having an AA I'm happy with and growth that I've been happy with means that there is no reason to compare against an infinite list of other options.

cheers.

[mojorisin]

I track my asset allocation of actual vs. target. I don't track performance as its in the past, although I do go back through my previous year spreadsheets to see how much my balance has increased over time (which is more to make me feel good than track % return).

[Clarky]

Word of caution if you think Vanguard is calculating your returns accurately, see the thread on the $800,000 fine Vanguard received from FINRA.

viewtopic.php?t=405404

And as noted there, the Vanguard "Performance" reporting mechanism contains grossly inaccurate data for balances, transactions, deposit/withdrawals, dividends, interest, gain/losses, etc.

And we’re supposed to take your word for the “Grossly inadequate” claim?

Except normal timing differences, I calculated no issues in my data.

[water2357]

Ignore my warning at your own risk. Vanguard listed a 5/26/23 ending account balance in the "Perfomance" section of the Dashboard that was 40% higher than the actual 5/26/23 balance from at least 5/26/23 to 5/30/23. That is not a timing issue. Every number in the "Performace" lists of monthly values for the last 10 years was incorrect.

Vanguard should have disabled the "Performance" mechanism if it was not working properly for at least 5 days, rather than showing inaccurate information. So, go ahead and use the "Performance" mechanism at your own risk, maybe when you log in it will be right, maybe not. I wouldn't trust it.

[RobLyons]

I glance at the returns % on the site if I happen to be on it, but otherwise no I don't track them.

[jebmke]

Ignore my warning at your own risk. Vanguard listed a 5/26/23 ending account balance in the "Perfomance" section of the Dashboard that was 40% higher than the actual 5/26/23 balance from at least 5/26/23 to 5/30/23. That is not a timing issue. Every number in the "Performace" lists of monthly values for the last 10 years was incorrect.

Vanguard should have disabled the "Performance" mechanism if it was not working properly for at least 5 days, rather than showing inaccurate information. So, go ahead and use the "Performance" mechanism at your own risk, maybe when you log in it will be right, maybe not. I wouldn't trust it.

I look at but don’t rely on the online data presented, especially performance and portfolio watch … but also the holdings. The statement is the official record as far as I am concerned.

[Nowizard]

We do in a relatively casual sense of comparing our invested assets at the beginning and ending of each year to see if our goal of maintaining the principal amount, plus 3% has been achieved. Defining a goal does frequently require monitoring since things evolve in many areas that include finances.

Tim

[zincTwo]

Before retirement I just tracked gross end-of-year balance so I could see if I was trending to my retirement date goal.
After retirement, I added my gross expenditures for the year, to see what my annual withdrawal rate is.

I wish I would have started tracking the gross expenditures earlier, so I would have had more "history" to know how much I was truly spending in preparation of the retirement decision.

[Clarky]

Ignore my warning at your own risk. Vanguard listed a 5/26/23 ending account balance in the "Perfomance" section of the Dashboard that was 40% higher than the actual 5/26/23 balance from at least 5/26/23 to 5/30/23. That is not a timing issue. Every number in the "Performace" lists of monthly values for the last 10 years was incorrect.

Vanguard should have disabled the "Performance" mechanism if it was not working properly for at least 5 days, rather than showing inaccurate information. So, go ahead and use the "Performance" mechanism at your own risk, maybe when you log in it will be right, maybe not. I wouldn't trust it.

When you say “dashboard” are you referring to PAS?

In any case, I keep close enough watch that I’d spot a 40% higher balance immediately. I’ve even deconstructed data, and compared to statements, when I’ve thought something was off, with all the brokerages I’ve used. Only with TRP did I ever had an actual issue. Also, the PAS dashboard does lag the main webpage, but only overnight at most.

[water2357]

Vanguard appears to have added/changed the webpage that appears first on log on, it was called the "Overview" tab. Now the first webpage you see is the "Dashboard" tab. The "Dashboard" tab shows information that also appears on the "Performance" tab. The data that I have been referring to, is the data appearing on the "Dashboard" tab listed as Performance information and this same data appearing on the "Performance" tab webpage.

All of the monthly data that was shown on both of these Tabs (Dashboard and Performance) that was labeled Performance data was incorrect for at least 5 days from 5/26/23 through 5/30/23. I looked at 10 years of month by month data entries in both of these locations and they were all incorrect.

As stated previously, I don't know why Vanguard would want to show incorrect data for at least 5 days. If they were in the process of developing this "Dashboard" tab, they should be doing it separate from the live website that the customer sees. It should have been tested and verified to be working before they just shoved it out to the customer. My best guess is that they have no development/test server.

Again this was not a timing issue. I've seen plenty of those. 5 days is too long to have incorrect data on the customer website and a 40% over statement of the true 5/26/23 ending account balance, along with all the other incorrect entries, could not possibly be a timing issue

Vanguard should at least issue an on line notice on the webpage they are developing, that it is not yet functional and will show incorrect data.

And as for the original question, yes, I track my own returns as well as all other data regarding any investments. Too many opportunities for errors to not track your own data, whether Vanguard or elsewhere.

[abc132]

Yes, using
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calcula ... al_returns
This spreadsheet will include additions and subtractions correctly.

I focus on 20 year returns which give me an idea if I have captured the returns as compared to portfolio visualizer. https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/
Portfolio visualizer will include dividends and fees so is better than your google/yahoo/etc graphs.

It's very common to see people reference returns that they did not actually receive - some small cap fund that was not their fund, some factor fund that was not their factor fund, etc. Calculating your actual returns forces you to take an honest look at your investment process and choices. People that play around tend to underperform by around 1% per year. Seeing this happen to my portfolio would prevent me from repeating this behavior. Tracking my performance and seeing it equal to the reference would help me to continue good behavior.

Other things to track:
- Cumulative Roth contributions
- Total contributions in a given year
- Contributions to each plan (checking maximums were not breached)
- Asset Allocation (stock/bond, US/international, etc)

[Clarky]

Vanguard appears to have added/changed the webpage that appears first on log on, it was called the "Overview" tab. Now the first webpage you see is the "Dashboard" tab. The "Dashboard" tab shows information that also appears on the "Performance" tab. The data that I have been referring to, is the data appearing on the "Dashboard" tab listed as Performance information and this same data appearing on the "Performance" tab webpage.

All of the monthly data that was shown on both of these Tabs (Dashboard and Performance) that was labeled Performance data was incorrect for at least 5 days from 5/26/23 through 5/30/23. I looked at 10 years of month by month data entries in both of these locations and they were all incorrect.

As stated previously, I don't know why Vanguard would want to show incorrect data for at least 5 days. If they were in the process of developing this "Dashboard" tab, they should be doing it separate from the live website that the customer sees. It should have been tested and verified to be working before they just shoved it out to the customer. My best guess is that they have no development/test server.

Again this was not a timing issue. I've seen plenty of those. 5 days is too long to have incorrect data on the customer website and a 40% over statement of the true 5/26/23 ending account balance, along with all the other incorrect entries, could not possibly be a timing issue

Vanguard should at least issue an on line notice on the webpage they are developing, that it is not yet functional and will show incorrect data.

And as for the original question, yes, I track my own returns as well as all other data regarding any investments. Too many opportunities for errors to not track your own data, whether Vanguard or elsewhere.

They must not have rolled the new dashboard out to everyone. I have a PAS dashboard, with a link to “All Accounts” which takes me to a red and white page that includes balances/holdings/activity/performance/portfolio watch, and related items. The word dashboard is nowhere to be seen.