'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

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'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

The 44th episode of Bogleheads® Live is now available as a podcast.

In this episode, Mr. Money Mustache answers questions about early retirement, investing, and more.

https://boglecenter.net/bogleheads-live ... pisode-44/

All past episodes 👇

https://boglecenter.net/category/bogleheads-live/

You can also find it listed on Apple, Google, Spotify, Amazon Music, and pretty much everywhere.

To join our live events - with the chance to ask your question to the week's guests - follow the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy on Twitter to stay up to date: https://twitter.com/bogleheads.

Enjoy!
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The 'Bogleheads® Live' series is hosted by me, Jon Luskin, CFP®, a long-time Boglehead®. This podcast is supported by the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy, a non-profit organization approved by the IRS as a 501(c)(3) public charity on February 6, 2012.
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Woodshark »

Thanks for the heads up. Should be interesting. I enjoyed reading the MMM forum back before I retired and I still occasionally pop over to see what's new.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Woodshark wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:17 pm Thanks for the heads up. Should be interesting. I enjoyed reading the MMM forum back before I retired and I still occasionally pop over to see what's new.
It was fun to interview such a popular early retirement icon.

:happy
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by kd2008 »

Jon, I appreciate the hard work you put into getting these out. Sometimes the guests are larger outsized personalities than the topic of discussion for example MMM, Bill Sharpe etc. For such guests non-live format with rapid fire questions (from a long list submitted in the forum) may extract most of out of the guests than a live format. Just a thought I wanted to share. It may also help with the flow of the conversation. Or maybe have a prerecorded part and live part etc
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Lyrrad »

I appreciated the interjection with additional information about health insurance.

I don't think a "health share" plan like the one that the guest uses would be suitable for me. I buy insurance for things that I cannot self-insure against, and I don't think I can effectively self-insure against catastrophic medical events. I feel that an ACA-compliant health insurance plan is best for me since I believe that having such a plan would ensure that I will be able to get necessary care covered.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

kd2008 wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:43 pm Jon, I appreciate the hard work you put into getting these out. Sometimes the guests are larger outsized personalities than the topic of discussion for example MMM, Bill Sharpe etc. For such guests non-live format with rapid fire questions (from a long list submitted in the forum) may extract most of out of the guests than a live format. Just a thought I wanted to share. It may also help with the flow of the conversation. Or maybe have a prerecorded part and live part etc
Thanks, kd2008. I appreciate the feedback.

You may be happy to learn that the Sharpe interview will not be live.

:happy
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Thanks, Lyrrad.

I appreciate that feedback.

To be clear, I'm a fan of MMM. Yet, I didn't want folks to think they wouldn't have any risk with that health-sharing approach.

:happy
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by stoaX »

kd2008 wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:43 pm Jon, I appreciate the hard work you put into getting these out.
Thanks and appreciation from me as well. I enjoyed listening - it was quite well done.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Rex66 »

Jon Luskin wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 10:45 am Thanks, Lyrrad.

I appreciate that feedback.

To be clear, I'm a fan of MMM. Yet, I didn't want folks to think they wouldn't have any risk with that health-sharing approach.

:happy
I think john Oliver did a story on these in particular the Christian associated ones
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

stoaX wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:03 am
Thanks and appreciation from me as well. I enjoyed listening - it was quite well done.
Thank you, stoaX. I appreciate it.

Lots of thanks to all the folks who make this possible. Nathan Garza does a lot of work editing the show - helping transform the live episode into a podcast.

:happy
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by luminous »

I’m looking forward to this one! I don’t see it on Apple Podcasts yet…
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Great job with interviews and transcripts!

This resonated with me well:
And really in the long run, you're just like a boat on a big wavey ocean. Your fortunes go up and down and up and down. But as long as you're still in the boat and moving forwards, that's really what you should be shooting for is enjoying your life as it goes on. And it's a great thing to be early retired and not have to work and then have work as an option.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Stinky »

luminous wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:14 am I’m looking forward to this one! I don’t see it on Apple Podcasts yet…
Does this work for you?

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1973223/1283 ... t-fire.mp3

It's been in my feed (and, evidently the feeds of many others) for about two weeks now.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by luminous »

Stinky wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 5:30 am
luminous wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:14 am I’m looking forward to this one! I don’t see it on Apple Podcasts yet…
Does this work for you?

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1973223/1283 ... t-fire.mp3

It's been in my feed (and, evidently the feeds of many others) for about two weeks now.
Thank you.

Yeah it’s weird! In Apple Podcasts I see the April episode (and all prior ones as far as I can tell) but not this latest one.
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Post by luminous »

Oh! I’ve just realized that this is NOT the “bogleheads on investing” podcast. User error. :oops:
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

luminous wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 12:04 am Oh! I’ve just realized that this is NOT the “bogleheads on investing” podcast. User error. :oops:
Yep! That's my fault for creating a second podcast for the Bogleheads. 😅

'Bogleheads Live' started out as a live Q&A on Twitter. So, why not record that live Q&A, edit it, and then release it as a podcast?

🤓
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Rex66 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 6:33 am
I think john Oliver did a story on these in particular the Christian associated ones
I believe you're correct.

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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:34 am Great job with interviews and transcripts!
Thank you!

Shout out to Jeremy Zuke for helping with the transcripts.
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Post by furwut »

I’m a subscriber. I created a station on Apple Podcasts from your two shows and I’m listening to all the old episodes.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

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furwut wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:45 am I’m a subscriber. I created a station on Apple Podcasts from your two shows and I’m listening to all the old episodes.
That's awesome!

Normally, Rick Ferri hosts the "on Investing" show. I'm temporarily standing in as guest host while he takes his sabbatical.

I'll resume the "Live" show in fall - the show I normally host, when Rick returns.

:happy
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:34 am
This resonated with me well:
And really in the long run, you're just like a boat on a big wavey ocean. Your fortunes go up and down and up and down. But as long as you're still in the boat and moving forwards, that's really what you should be shooting for is enjoying your life as it goes on. And it's a great thing to be early retired and not have to work and then have work as an option.
A great analogy! (And, I do love analogies.)
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Leesbro63 »

Thanks, Jon, for another interesting podcast. It’s great that you do this. A few thoughts on this one:

1. While I applaud Mr. Money Mustache for getting the word out to “avoid the skim”, I think he presents a bit of kookiness that Bogleheads should avoid. In particular, his use of “not real” health coverage/insurance is financial insanity that few, if any, Bogleheads should consider. Kudos to Jon for inserting a very prominent warning about this. MMM says your main job should be to maintain health. That works until, as happened to a very health-focused family member, you wake up with a brain tumor that requires $750,000 of care just before you die anyway.

2. MMM was out to lunch on inflation. He posits that since you own stocks, their prices and your wealth will just keep up with the price increases those companies charge. Shrugs off inflation totally. He’s right that stocks generally beat inflation over very long periods. But tell that to the middle age and older 1966 crowd who were ancient or dead before it all worked out in the long run.

3. I suggest Jon and Rick combine their podcast formats as one. It’s confusing that this is the Rick Ferri Bogleheads podcast series and that is the Jon Luskin Bogleheads podcast series. Keep it simple with one series. But both of you are doing great work; thank you!

Just my .02. Anyone else agree that MMM needs a dose of reality?
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

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Leesbro63 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:44 am Thanks, Jon, for another interesting podcast. It’s great that you do this. A few thoughts on this one:

1. While I applaud Mr. Money Mustache for getting the word out to “avoid the skim”, I think he presents a bit of kookiness that Bogleheads should avoid. In particular, his use of “not real” health coverage/insurance is financial insanity that few, if any, Bogleheads should consider. Kudos to Jon for inserting a very prominent warning about this. MMM says your main job should be to maintain health. That works until, as happened to a very health-focused family member, you wake up with a brain tumor that requires $750,000 of care just before you die anyway.

2. MMM was out to lunch on inflation. He posits that since you own stocks, their prices and your wealth will just keep up with the price increases those companies charge. Shrugs off inflation totally. He’s right that stocks generally beat inflation over very long periods. But tell that to the middle age and older 1966 crowd who were ancient or dead before it all worked out in the long run.
I agree on both counts.

He doesn’t have any personal experience with how expensive healthcare can get, even for a very healthy person, if a freak situation (car accident, cancer, who knows what?) happens.

And he’s not old enough to have lived through the painful economic years of the 1970s and early 1980s.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Leesbro63 »

Stinky wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:16 am
Leesbro63 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:44 am Thanks, Jon, for another interesting podcast. It’s great that you do this. A few thoughts on this one:

1. While I applaud Mr. Money Mustache for getting the word out to “avoid the skim”, I think he presents a bit of kookiness that Bogleheads should avoid. In particular, his use of “not real” health coverage/insurance is financial insanity that few, if any, Bogleheads should consider. Kudos to Jon for inserting a very prominent warning about this. MMM says your main job should be to maintain health. That works until, as happened to a very health-focused family member, you wake up with a brain tumor that requires $750,000 of care just before you die anyway.

2. MMM was out to lunch on inflation. He posits that since you own stocks, their prices and your wealth will just keep up with the price increases those companies charge. Shrugs off inflation totally. He’s right that stocks generally beat inflation over very long periods. But tell that to the middle age and older 1966 crowd who were ancient or dead before it all worked out in the long run.
I agree on both counts.

He doesn’t have any personal experience with how expensive healthcare can get, even for a very healthy person, if a freak situation (car accident, cancer, who knows what?) happens.

And he’s not old enough to have lived through the painful economic years of the 1970s and early 1980s.
Thanks for the confirmation. I knew I wasn’t crazy. Ok, maybe I am crazy, but not on this! 😀
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Post by AlwaysLearningMore »

Leesbro63 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:44 am Thanks, Jon, for another interesting podcast. It’s great that you do this. A few thoughts on this one:

1. While I applaud Mr. Money Mustache for getting the word out to “avoid the skim”, I think he presents a bit of kookiness that Bogleheads should avoid. In particular, his use of “not real” health coverage/insurance is financial insanity that few, if any, Bogleheads should consider. Kudos to Jon for inserting a very prominent warning about this. MMM says your main job should be to maintain health. That works until, as happened to a very health-focused family member, you wake up with a brain tumor that requires $750,000 of care just before you die anyway.

2. MMM was out to lunch on inflation. He posits that since you own stocks, their prices and your wealth will just keep up with the price increases those companies charge. Shrugs off inflation totally. He’s right that stocks generally beat inflation over very long periods. But tell that to the middle age and older 1966 crowd who were ancient or dead before it all worked out in the long run.

3. I suggest Jon and Rick combine their podcast formats as one. It’s confusing that this is the Rick Ferri Bogleheads podcast series and that is the Jon Luskin Bogleheads podcast series. Keep it simple with one series. But both of you are doing great work; thank you!

Just my .02. Anyone else agree that MMM needs a dose of reality?
Regarding inflation, it always hits those at the bottom of the economic scale the most. MMM is not an economist, and on top of that look at his website and how much income that purportedly generates. Do you really think he's worried about the price of eggs? I really don't see how he can be looked upon as any sort of authority on inflation.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by edmundspenser »

This is partly a question/partly a statement. I believe MMM is originally Canadian. Is he still eligible for Canadian healthcare though he lives in the USA? Is his son eligible? If so, he does not face the risk that Americans face if hit by a major--or even minor--healthcare need.
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edmundspenser wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 9:04 am This is partly a question/partly a statement. I believe MMM is originally Canadian. Is he still eligible for Canadian healthcare though he lives in the USA? Is his son eligible? If so, he does not face the risk that Americans face if hit by a major--or even minor--healthcare need.
I would assume that he's a Canadian citizen and could move back there whenever he pleases.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Boulder92 »

“Just my .02. Anyone else agree that MMM needs a dose of reality?“

Really? He seems to be doing quite well considering he retired many years ago, has more money, given away hundreds of thousands of dollars (more than most of us here….), and built a community. He is not perfect but seems like he is doing ok.

I followed him years ago but stopped because he was too crass for me at times. I will say though I have taken from him two things — we have never had a second car. I walk or bike more places. Second, I try to fix things more myself.

I think one could nitpick something about all of the personal finance “gurus”. For example, another Bogleheads Podcaster I admire is the voice of reason, conservative in stock market return predictions, and seems to be voice of calm. He has helped me with asset allocation and seeing the big picture. He does however, drive an RV around on vacation which I think is just silly. Whenever I see those on the roads I think why go on vacation when you have to take a house with you? But I still value some things about him…….. no one is perfect but many have things to offer…..
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Leesbro63 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:44 am Thanks, Jon, for another interesting podcast. It’s great that you do this. A few thoughts on this one:

1. While I applaud Mr. Money Mustache for getting the word out to “avoid the skim”, I think he presents a bit of kookiness that Bogleheads should avoid. In particular, his use of “not real” health coverage/insurance is financial insanity that few, if any, Bogleheads should consider. Kudos to Jon for inserting a very prominent warning about this.
Thanks, Leesbro63. I appreciate that. :happy

I'm a fan of MMM - especially his, roll-up-your-sleeves, can-do attitude. Yet, certainly, I don't agree with everything he says.

Moreover, I *love* managing big risks - those very big risks that can blow up one's finances - such as going without real health insurance!
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Lyrrad »

edmundspenser wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 9:04 am This is partly a question/partly a statement. I believe MMM is originally Canadian. Is he still eligible for Canadian healthcare though he lives in the USA? Is his son eligible? If so, he does not face the risk that Americans face if hit by a major--or even minor--healthcare need.

My understanding is that a non-resident moving to Canada generally is subject to a waiting period (perhaps a few months) before becoming eligible for public health coverage.

I believe Canadian public health coverage covers doctors and hospitals. It generally does not cover prescription medicine or dental care. Care is administered at the provincial/territorial level so there may be differences.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by unwitting_gulag »

Hats off to Jon, for succinctly and cogently putting the questions! This is especially noteworthy because our thread introducing MMM was, how shall we say, a bit fractious?

As others have noted, the nasty spray quenching the FIRE is health insurance, especially for folks who are no longer young (50, 55, etc.) but still quite some years away from Medicare eligibility. On most matters, MMM gave compelling or at least reasonable answers. The healthcare answer was... less so. Folks with large-ish taxable portfolios may find themselves with annual dividends exceeding the MAGI (not three wise men...) cap for ACA subsidies. So, even if they magically withdraw nothing, and earn nothing via W2 or 1099, they're still above the wage-cap for subsidy eligibility. One supposes that this is a leash that keeps would-be early retirees stuck in the old 9-5, even if everything else has been amply sorted out.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

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Leesbro63 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:44 am
3. I suggest Jon and Rick combine their podcast formats as one. It’s confusing that this is the Rick Ferri Bogleheads podcast series and that is the Jon Luskin Bogleheads podcast series. Keep it simple with one series. But both of you are doing great work; thank you!
Rick hosts the long-time 'Bogleheads on Investing' podcast. It's a traditional podcast format, with the interview taking place offline.

Recently, I started our live Q&A series on Twitter, giving the folks of Twitter the chance to ask their questions directly to the show's guest. This live format is dubbed 'Bogleheads Live.' Naturally, not everyone can make the live shows. So, we record it, edit it (a lot), and then make the show available as a podcast.

To add to the confusion, I've recently taken over Rick's show as guest host - 'on Investing', while Rick takes a summer sabbatical.

I hope that helps. :happy
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
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Post by Leesbro63 »

Jon Luskin wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:45 am
Leesbro63 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:44 am
3. I suggest Jon and Rick combine their podcast formats as one. It’s confusing that this is the Rick Ferri Bogleheads podcast series and that is the Jon Luskin Bogleheads podcast series. Keep it simple with one series. But both of you are doing great work; thank you!
Rick hosts the long-time 'Bogleheads on Investing' podcast. It's a traditional podcast format, with the interview taking place offline.

Recently, I started our live Q&A series on Twitter, giving the folks of Twitter the chance to ask their questions directly to the show's guest. This live format is dubbed 'Bogleheads Live.' Naturally, not everyone can make the live shows. So, we record it, edit it (a lot), and then make the show available as a podcast.

To add to the confusion, I've recently taken over Rick's show as guest host - 'on Investing', while Rick takes a summer sabbatical.

I hope that helps. :happy
Yeah, that really helps! :-P Thanks to both you and Rick for doing these podcasts. I'll get used to the formats. :)
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

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Stinky wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:16 am

He doesn’t have any personal experience with how expensive healthcare can get, even for a very healthy person, if a freak situation (car accident, cancer, who knows what?) happens.

And he’s not old enough to have lived through the painful economic years of the 1970s and early 1980s.
Certainly, our lens of reality is shaped by our narrow life experiences.

:happy
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Boulder92 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:35 pm
I will say though I have taken from him two things — we have never had a second car. I walk or bike more places. Second, I try to fix things more myself.
Same. I certainly admire him in those areas.
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Mardoc01 »

unwitting_gulag wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:41 am Hats off to Jon, for succinctly and cogently putting the questions! This is especially noteworthy because our thread introducing MMM was, how shall we say, a bit fractious?

As others have noted, the nasty spray quenching the FIRE is health insurance, especially for folks who are no longer young (50, 55, etc.) but still quite some years away from Medicare eligibility. On most matters, MMM gave compelling or at least reasonable answers. The healthcare answer was... less so. Folks with large-ish taxable portfolios may find themselves with annual dividends exceeding the MAGI (not three wise men...) cap for ACA subsidies. So, even if they magically withdraw nothing, and earn nothing via W2 or 1099, they're still above the wage-cap for subsidy eligibility. One supposes that this is a leash that keeps would-be early retirees stuck in the old 9-5, even if everything else has been amply sorted out.
There Has to be some solutions out there for us 50 yr olds trying fire??
Leesbro63
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Leesbro63 »

Mardoc01 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:04 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:41 am Hats off to Jon, for succinctly and cogently putting the questions! This is especially noteworthy because our thread introducing MMM was, how shall we say, a bit fractious?

As others have noted, the nasty spray quenching the FIRE is health insurance, especially for folks who are no longer young (50, 55, etc.) but still quite some years away from Medicare eligibility. On most matters, MMM gave compelling or at least reasonable answers. The healthcare answer was... less so. Folks with large-ish taxable portfolios may find themselves with annual dividends exceeding the MAGI (not three wise men...) cap for ACA subsidies. So, even if they magically withdraw nothing, and earn nothing via W2 or 1099, they're still above the wage-cap for subsidy eligibility. One supposes that this is a leash that keeps would-be early retirees stuck in the old 9-5, even if everything else has been amply sorted out.
There Has to be some solutions out there for us 50 yr olds trying fire??
Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
unwitting_gulag
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by unwitting_gulag »

Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Leesbro63
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Leesbro63 »

unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by tj »

Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
He's definitely on Medicare.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

unwitting_gulag wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:41 am Hats off to Jon, for succinctly and cogently putting the questions!
🙏

:D
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Mardoc01 »

Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm . . . lousy coverage at such high cost.
Meaning a non-subsidized (no ACA premium tax credits) high-deductible health plan?
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
Normchad
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Normchad »

Mardoc01 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:46 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
Nope. Do some reading and planning. Just don’t have a lot of “income”……. It’s all income based…..
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by tj »

Normchad wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:43 pm
Mardoc01 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:46 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
Nope. Do some reading and planning. Just don’t have a lot of “income”……. It’s all income based…..
If you don't have income, then you geneate income by doing roth conversions...or you just go on Medicaid. If you're in a state that did not expand Medicaid, you could vote with your feet and move to one that has.
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Jon Luskin »

Leesbro63 wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:24 pm
Thanks to both you and Rick for doing these podcasts.
It's an honor!

🤓
When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one. ~Jack Bogle
Mardoc01
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Mardoc01 »

Normchad wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:43 pm
Mardoc01 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:46 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
Nope. Do some reading and planning. Just don’t have a lot of “income”……. It’s all income based…..
My dilemma is that I’m currently in a very high tax bracket based on my work if I leave I’ll still have the tax bracket it’s elevated at least for the first year. I guess cobra ,,,, would that be lower than aca with no subsidies. ?…..
Mardoc01
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Mardoc01 »

Normchad wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:43 pm
Mardoc01 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:46 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:27 pm...Actually the ACA IS the answer. And MMM's "health share" thing is certainly NOT the answer. Before the ACA, many (most) without employment couldn't even get real health insurance at any price. It boils down to doing "slimFIRE" and qualifying for ACA subsidies or doing "fatFIRE" and being able to afford ACA coverage at full cost. Like many things these days, such as college, there is really no "middle class" option. You have to be poor enough to get subsidies or rich enough to pay full ticket.
Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
Nope. Do some reading and planning. Just don’t have a lot of “income”……. It’s all income based…..
My dilemma is that I’m currently in a very high tax bracket based on my work if I leave I’ll still have the tax bracket it’s elevated at least for the first year. I guess cobra ,,,, would that be lower than aca with no subsidies. ?…..
tj
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by tj »

Mardoc01 wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:54 am
Normchad wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:43 pm
Mardoc01 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:46 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm

Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
Nope. Do some reading and planning. Just don’t have a lot of “income”……. It’s all income based…..
My dilemma is that I’m currently in a very high tax bracket based on my work if I leave I’ll still have the tax bracket it’s elevated at least for the first year. I guess cobra ,,,, would that be lower than aca with no subsidies. ?…..
If you are in a very high tax bracket, then you have money to pay the premiums? What's the problem? You'd rather wrok extra years to avoid paying say $1000/mo in health insurance premium? How much do you earn per hour?

If you're paying say $200/mo on subsidized health insurance through an employer, then you're working hours upon hours just to save $800/mo.
Normchad
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Re: 'Bogleheads® Live' #44 podcast is out: Early Retirement w/ Mr. Money Mustache

Post by Normchad »

Mardoc01 wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:54 am
Normchad wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:43 pm
Mardoc01 wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:46 pm
Leesbro63 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:44 pm
unwitting_gulag wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:54 pm

Some people have been adept at "CleverFIRE", where they have substantial assets, but growth in those assets doesn't appear under MAGI. I don't mean fraud or some kind of exotic offshoring scheme. Instead, things like having most of one's portfolio in tax-deferred accounts. Or buying a large-ish house in a costly market all-cash. Or in one's taxable portfolio, building a quasi-index of individual stocks that don't pay dividends, and never selling them (maybe un-BH, but one does what one needs to do, correct?). Us straight-up S&P 500 warriors are going to get bloodied in the tax battle. This is OK as purely a drag on our portfolios, but it's contrary to CleverFIRE for ACA subsidy purposes... meaning, kiss goodbye to $1000/month for very mediocre and threadbare health "insurance". Even that, one supposes, is OK for healthy people who are already say 60 years old, and not that far from Medicare eligibility age. But if you're a good decade younger than that, or nearly so, then it's a daunting prospect, to be facing so many years of lousy coverage at such high cost.
Yeah but too much cleverness can lead to wagging the dog. You do all sorts of financial gymnastics for cheap ACA but end up with huge embedded capital gains in individual stocks or other portfolio imbalances. It’s the same problem for older Bogleheads with big incomes trying to avoid Medicare IRMAA charges. There’s not great ways to legally keep MAGI down without sacrificing, perhaps at a greater long term cost, elsewhere.

As an aside, John Greaney, “Intercst”, the founder of The Retire Homepage, loves to crow about how he bought BRK instead of Vanguard Total Market and his portfolio has exploded with zero taxable dividends. And therefore, he gets (or got…I think he’s now on Medicare) very cheap ACA because he has very little taxable income, yet he’s “rich”.
I guess I’m screwed then. 55 and wanting to leave work. Just bend over and take the high premiums as best I can thru the ACA
Nope. Do some reading and planning. Just don’t have a lot of “income”……. It’s all income based…..
My dilemma is that I’m currently in a very high tax bracket based on my work if I leave I’ll still have the tax bracket it’s elevated at least for the first year. I guess cobra ,,,, would that be lower than aca with no subsidies. ?…..
It resets every year. If you left today, you’d be that bracket until the end of the year. Then come January 1, it resets……

If it was me, and I left today, I’d probably do COBRA until January 1. COBRA for me would cost about the same as I subsidized ACA. Then I’d use the rest if the year to see what makes sense January 1. Either keep COBRA for all of 2024, or join the ACA.

I think I’ll be able to manage my income to make this work out just fine. Another idea I’ve had, if my income in a year will disqualify me, would be to generate a lot of income in that year, enough to cover 3-4 years of expenses, then drop back down to,low income in the following years. So I’d have great subsidies in most years, but once in a while I wouldn’t have them.

Thee are lots of ways to manage your MAGI…..
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