What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

[swedek]

BOA business advantage card which is 5.25% on up to $50k spend annually

Wow I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know.

Just FYI you need to be Business Platinum Honors which is different from Platinum Honors.

Yes. Thanks

[THY4373]

I use mariott bonvoy amex with the annual 95 dollar fee. I get one free night each year and the points for hotel nights.
I think it's a good deal but if anyone knows of something better let me know.

Unless you have loyalty to Marriott and value the perks, I would argue a 2% cash back card is better for everyday spend. Points guy values Marriott points at 0.84 cents, so by that measurement you are earning equivalent of 1.68% and only valid for travel vs. cash. Keep the Marriott card for the free night if you can take advantage, but don’t put any spend on it besides at a Marriott.

I have both the Amex personal and biz versions $95ish ones, haven’t spent much on them since the SPG days, but get the free nights for the annual fees. Not typical but this year I was able to use the free night cert at a hotel which would have been over $500 cash rate. Not a nice hotel but close to a concert venue we will be attending so the rates get jacked up when big concerts come through.

+1 to this. I only hold my two Amex Bonvoy cards (held since the SPG days) for the free night certs and elite night credits (business and personal stack). They get zero spend other than the odd Amex spend bonuses.

[EnjoyIt]

When I say “high limit” I don’t mean credit line, I mean high limit on the travel category.

I don’t like customized cash because it’s capped at $2k spend spend a quarter. Compare that to the BOA business advantage card which is 5.25% on up to $50k spend annually.

I also don’t want to book through a portal because you give up earning hotel points and you don’t get status nights.

For example, I’d rather get 15x Marriott points per $1 spent as a platinum + 5% or 5x back than 10x via a portal.

Boa business advantage 5.25%.

All I need to qualify is $100k in a business account?
Can I buy equities with that account?

[Lastrun]

Boa business advantage 5.25%.

All I need to qualify is $100k in a business account?
Can I buy equities with that account?

Seems like the answer sure! https://olui2.fs.ml.com/publish/content ... eement.pdf

But I have not read the preferred rewards stuff for business.

[Lastrun]

Compare that to the BOA business advantage card which is 5.25% on up to $50k spend annually.

Just to clarify, this is in one selected category. Here is how BofA phrases it.

That means you could earn up to 5.25% in your selected choice category and up to 3.5% on dining purchases on the first $50,000 in those combined purchases

[Hector]

https://www.bankofamerica.com/credit-ca ... edit-card/

I got denied by this card and now figure I'm basically a persona non grata at all the major issuers except Amex and Citi. I've had 48 cards in the last 5 years so easy to figure why. I think I'm gonna apply for an Amex biz platinum in August and then basically go off the schneid for a year or 2 and let things reset. Maybe even get under 5/24 and grab some Chase cards!

Yes, pretty much the same. Once my refinance goes through I am going to close about 3 dozen cards and let everything reset. Focus entirely on checking and savings bonuses. May even venture into brokerage bonuses. I’ve gotten over $50k in rewards in the last 5 or 6 years or so and while I don’t “depend” on it, an 8-10k hole a year is noticed. I know the gravy train won’t last forever, but CC rewards have sent me and my wife on fabulous vacations, put a new roof on our house, and bought us a house fulls worth of new furniture.

Have you been dedifed before for having too many cards?
Do you not close any cards?
How long does it take to get back in good standing?

Yes you can be and I have been denied for having too many cards. This is a frequent reason for denial “too many revolving accounts”.

I close cards with annual fees unless there is a no fee conversion option I want. I don’t typically open no fee cards as the bonuses are lower, but occasionally I will for a card I want. I currently have 3 fee cards that I am keeping:

1) US Bank Altitude Reserve. I’ve had this since launch.
2) Chase Sapphire Preferred. Waiting for an opportunity to book a Hyatt property, but I don’t want to cancel until I transfer and I don’t want to transfer until I know what I want
3) IHG Premier - I use the free night every year

Different issuers have different rules. Chase is 5/24. When I drop under 5/24 they approve me. Above they deny me. Capital One has never approved me for anything despite years of trying. Sometimes AMEX puts me in pop up jail. Other times they approve me with bonus.

What is 5/24? 24 new cards in last 5 years?

[FedGuy]

What is 5/24? 24 new cards in last 5 years?

It refers to 5 credit card applications in the previous 24 months.

[pizzy]

What is 5/24? 24 new cards in last 5 years?

It refers to 5 credit card applications in the previous 24 months.

*approved and reported personal cards, not application/inquiries

[index245]

What is 5/24? 24 new cards in last 5 years?

It refers to 5 credit card applications in the previous 24 months.

They don't care about applications or inquiries. Only approved personal cards plus some Capital One and Discover business cards. Other business cards do not count toward 5/24.

I'm patiently waiting to go under 5/24.

[AnnetteLouisan]

I’m the highest loyalty tier with a certain hotel conglomerate. Past two weeks I’ve been staying somewhere totally unaffiliated because it was the best option for my needs. If I took the loyalty status seriously I’d limit my options. So for me I prefer being free of the mindset where I’m choosing places based primarily on rewards. I don’t like feeling like I and my purchase decisions can be bought for a few free hotel nights or free upgrades to rooms they can’t fill anyway. But that’s likely a result of other factors.

I don’t currently do credit card rewards but may soon. As discussed previously I respond to incentives so I try to limit the incentives to which I am subject, or make them work in my favor such as my FSA.

[anon_investor]

I’m the highest loyalty tier with a certain hotel conglomerate. Past two weeks I’ve been staying somewhere totally unaffiliated because it was the best option for my needs. If I took the loyalty status seriously I’d limit my options. So for me I prefer being free of the mindset where I’m choosing places based primarily on rewards. I don’t like feeling like I and my purchase decisions can be bought for a few free hotel nights or free upgrades to rooms they can’t fill anyway. But that’s likely a result of other factors.

I don’t currently do credit card rewards but may soon. As discussed previously I respond to incentives so I try to limit the incentives to which I am subject, or make them work in my favor such as my FSA.

Simple cash back credit cards are always good because you just get cash back.

[dissentmemo]

Anyone else get the email from Amazon for the Amazon Prime card the other day? Instant $150 gift card upon approval and 5% back for 3 months.

I signed up, got the $150 instant gift card (which was just enough to get the large drum fan for my basement gym that I've had my eye on) and will cancel the account as soon as the card shows up. Thanks, Amazon!

FWIW, they gave a generous $25,000 limit as well, if that's appealing to anyone.

That's a good way to piss off Chase. Banks like you to keep cards for a year.

If you don't care, that's cool. But if you have or want a relationship with Chase, I wouldn't.

[dissentmemo]

Outside of Hyatt, hotels in general have terrible redemption rates, and I am not much of a Hyatt guy outside of the Park Hyatts, but those are not widespread. I wish Amex had Hyatt as a travel partner, but I know that will never happen or it will pretty much render UR points worthless. At this point, I am debating whether it is even worth it to keep my CSP just for Hyatt transfers when I rarely use it.

We finally stayed at a Park Hyatt (Italy, in the before days), and it was the best location and also a wonderful hotel.
So now (n = 1...) we suspect the general reputation is warranted (?).

We've never used points for hotels, always for premium international air. However, we've got so many points now (yes, we realize it will take a gazillion to go anywhere these days, if awards tickets are available at all, etc.), that perhaps we should focus a bit more on hotels.

What is the best way to get points that can be used at Park Hyatts?
And in practical terms, it is actually possible to get awards reservations at Park Hyatts, or is it almost impossible?
And is the value much more than any generous "cash back" card (which we've also not done yet)?

We'd be happy to change charge cards, etc., but unless it's a card with bonuses for signing up, our spend these days is unlikely to generate a big pile of points.

Thanks.

RM

I always use the Sapphire Preferred and Freedom Unlimited to build up UR points for Hyatt, although I have stopped using those cards mostly these days, mainly because I was not traveling during the pandemic and have not stayed in a Park Hyatt since 2019.

Chase also offers a Hyatt Visa, but the earnings rate is worse than the Sapphire Preferred unless you stay/pay cash at Hyatts often, which I don't.

I am also sitting on ~700k Amex points, but as you said, the redemption rates are so bad these days I feel like those are a waste too. I was trying to buy a business class ticket to France last fall and the cheapest I could find was a 600k ticket, and that was for one person.

You need to focus on transfer partners. I'm flying first class ANA round trip to Tokyo for 145k Amex transferred to Virgin

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/redee ... oints-ana/

[Mudpuppy]

I just got a chase sapphire card for the bonus. Should I close it and so that I can reapply in 2 years? I don't see a need to keep it. Most of my spending is on a fidelity cash rewards card. I've been debating cancelling that to to reapply later.

I keep a bofa card because its my longest card. Plus a bofa alaska airlines as I travel with them primarily(dont do much international).

It's my impression that Chase takes a dim view of closing cards that you opened only for the bonus. In a worst-case scenario, they might shut down all your accounts and confiscate your points. Not saying it will happen to you but it has to some people, and it's easily avoidable. Consider product-changing the Sapphire card to a Freedom, which is also in the Ultimate Rewards family.

On the other hand, if you've had the card open for several years and cancel, Chase doesn't seem to view this as a negative. I canceled my CSR when they increased the annual fee, and it didn't even register as a blip on the radar. I already had the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited cards though, which made the product-change path more complicated, and I'd held the CSR for at least 4 years, so I'm sure that all factored in to the equation.

It's been a while since I canceled the CSR and I'm now getting targeted CSP and CSR offers when I log into Chase's website. There's no travel on my horizon though, so they're not as tempting as they used to be. I'm still sitting on a stack of UR points without much of an idea of what to use them for, other than basic cash back, which seems like a waste, but so is just letting them sit on the UR portal.

[EnjoyIt]

I just got a chase sapphire card for the bonus. Should I close it and so that I can reapply in 2 years? I don't see a need to keep it. Most of my spending is on a fidelity cash rewards card. I've been debating cancelling that to to reapply later.

I keep a bofa card because its my longest card. Plus a bofa alaska airlines as I travel with them primarily(dont do much international).

It's my impression that Chase takes a dim view of closing cards that you opened only for the bonus. In a worst-case scenario, they might shut down all your accounts and confiscate your points. Not saying it will happen to you but it has to some people, and it's easily avoidable. Consider product-changing the Sapphire card to a Freedom, which is also in the Ultimate Rewards family.

On the other hand, if you've had the card open for several years and cancel, Chase doesn't seem to view this as a negative. I canceled my CSR when they increased the annual fee, and it didn't even register as a blip on the radar. I already had the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited cards though, which made the product-change path more complicated, and I'd held the CSR for at least 4 years, so I'm sure that all factored in to the equation.

It's been a while since I canceled the CSR and I'm now getting targeted CSP and CSR offers when I log into Chase's website. There's no travel on my horizon though, so they're not as tempting as they used to be. I'm still sitting on a stack of UR points without much of an idea of what to use them for, other than basic cash back, which seems like a waste, but so is just letting them sit on the UR portal.

Get the CSR and then use the points to pay yourself back for grocery and gas station purchases at 1.25 cents per point. It’s not the best redemption, but it’s probably better than the points just sitting there.

[JimmyD]

Anyone else get the email from Amazon for the Amazon Prime card the other day? Instant $150 gift card upon approval and 5% back for 3 months.

I signed up, got the $150 instant gift card (which was just enough to get the large drum fan for my basement gym that I've had my eye on) and will cancel the account as soon as the card shows up. Thanks, Amazon!

FWIW, they gave a generous $25,000 limit as well, if that's appealing to anyone.

That's a good way to piss off Chase. Banks like you to keep cards for a year.

If you don't care, that's cool. But if you have or want a relationship with Chase, I wouldn't.

Yep - don't care as I don't do business with them and just stick to the Wells Fargo 2% cash back card. Don't have the patience for all the points hoop-jumping.

[atdharris]

Outside of Hyatt, hotels in general have terrible redemption rates, and I am not much of a Hyatt guy outside of the Park Hyatts, but those are not widespread. I wish Amex had Hyatt as a travel partner, but I know that will never happen or it will pretty much render UR points worthless. At this point, I am debating whether it is even worth it to keep my CSP just for Hyatt transfers when I rarely use it.

We finally stayed at a Park Hyatt (Italy, in the before days), and it was the best location and also a wonderful hotel.
So now (n = 1...) we suspect the general reputation is warranted (?).

We've never used points for hotels, always for premium international air. However, we've got so many points now (yes, we realize it will take a gazillion to go anywhere these days, if awards tickets are available at all, etc.), that perhaps we should focus a bit more on hotels.

What is the best way to get points that can be used at Park Hyatts?
And in practical terms, it is actually possible to get awards reservations at Park Hyatts, or is it almost impossible?
And is the value much more than any generous "cash back" card (which we've also not done yet)?

We'd be happy to change charge cards, etc., but unless it's a card with bonuses for signing up, our spend these days is unlikely to generate a big pile of points.

Thanks.

RM

I always use the Sapphire Preferred and Freedom Unlimited to build up UR points for Hyatt, although I have stopped using those cards mostly these days, mainly because I was not traveling during the pandemic and have not stayed in a Park Hyatt since 2019.

Chase also offers a Hyatt Visa, but the earnings rate is worse than the Sapphire Preferred unless you stay/pay cash at Hyatts often, which I don't.

I am also sitting on ~700k Amex points, but as you said, the redemption rates are so bad these days I feel like those are a waste too. I was trying to buy a business class ticket to France last fall and the cheapest I could find was a 600k ticket, and that was for one person.

You need to focus on transfer partners. I'm flying first class ANA round trip to Tokyo for 145k Amex transferred to Virgin

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/redee ... oints-ana/

I'll admit I am not great at finding the best redemptions for points. I need to get better at it because I don't want to waste all that I have on poor redemptions.

[dissentmemo]

Outside of Hyatt, hotels in general have terrible redemption rates, and I am not much of a Hyatt guy outside of the Park Hyatts, but those are not widespread. I wish Amex had Hyatt as a travel partner, but I know that will never happen or it will pretty much render UR points worthless. At this point, I am debating whether it is even worth it to keep my CSP just for Hyatt transfers when I rarely use it.

We finally stayed at a Park Hyatt (Italy, in the before days), and it was the best location and also a wonderful hotel.
So now (n = 1...) we suspect the general reputation is warranted (?).

We've never used points for hotels, always for premium international air. However, we've got so many points now (yes, we realize it will take a gazillion to go anywhere these days, if awards tickets are available at all, etc.), that perhaps we should focus a bit more on hotels.

What is the best way to get points that can be used at Park Hyatts?
And in practical terms, it is actually possible to get awards reservations at Park Hyatts, or is it almost impossible?
And is the value much more than any generous "cash back" card (which we've also not done yet)?

We'd be happy to change charge cards, etc., but unless it's a card with bonuses for signing up, our spend these days is unlikely to generate a big pile of points.

Thanks.

RM

I always use the Sapphire Preferred and Freedom Unlimited to build up UR points for Hyatt, although I have stopped using those cards mostly these days, mainly because I was not traveling during the pandemic and have not stayed in a Park Hyatt since 2019.

Chase also offers a Hyatt Visa, but the earnings rate is worse than the Sapphire Preferred unless you stay/pay cash at Hyatts often, which I don't.

I am also sitting on ~700k Amex points, but as you said, the redemption rates are so bad these days I feel like those are a waste too. I was trying to buy a business class ticket to France last fall and the cheapest I could find was a 600k ticket, and that was for one person.

You need to focus on transfer partners. I'm flying first class ANA round trip to Tokyo for 145k Amex transferred to Virgin

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/redee ... oints-ana/

I'll admit I am not great at finding the best redemptions for points. I need to get better at it because I don't want to waste all that I have on poor redemptions.

It takes time and research to get used to it, but you can get some amazing redemptions.

[Hector]

We (family of 4) are flying form coast to coast to via Alaska soon. We haven’t bought the tickets yet. Looking at terms of Alaska airline card,
If I am reading it correctly, we won’t qualify for companion fare as we don’t have the card yet.
So apart from feee check bags, there is no additional benefits of applying for the card, correct?
I’m not sure if we are going to fly every year to use companion fare.
Also, annual feel and $6000/year purchase(equivalent to $120 for 2% cash back card) for companion fare doesn’t seem appealing.
Am I missing something?

[pizzy]

Am I missing something?

The sign up bonus. The ability to churn. The ability to get multiple as a family.

[EnjoyIt]

We finally stayed at a Park Hyatt (Italy, in the before days), and it was the best location and also a wonderful hotel.
So now (n = 1...) we suspect the general reputation is warranted (?).

We've never used points for hotels, always for premium international air. However, we've got so many points now (yes, we realize it will take a gazillion to go anywhere these days, if awards tickets are available at all, etc.), that perhaps we should focus a bit more on hotels.

What is the best way to get points that can be used at Park Hyatts?
And in practical terms, it is actually possible to get awards reservations at Park Hyatts, or is it almost impossible?
And is the value much more than any generous "cash back" card (which we've also not done yet)?

We'd be happy to change charge cards, etc., but unless it's a card with bonuses for signing up, our spend these days is unlikely to generate a big pile of points.

Thanks.

RM

I always use the Sapphire Preferred and Freedom Unlimited to build up UR points for Hyatt, although I have stopped using those cards mostly these days, mainly because I was not traveling during the pandemic and have not stayed in a Park Hyatt since 2019.

Chase also offers a Hyatt Visa, but the earnings rate is worse than the Sapphire Preferred unless you stay/pay cash at Hyatts often, which I don't.

I am also sitting on ~700k Amex points, but as you said, the redemption rates are so bad these days I feel like those are a waste too. I was trying to buy a business class ticket to France last fall and the cheapest I could find was a 600k ticket, and that was for one person.

You need to focus on transfer partners. I'm flying first class ANA round trip to Tokyo for 145k Amex transferred to Virgin

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/redee ... oints-ana/

I'll admit I am not great at finding the best redemptions for points. I need to get better at it because I don't want to waste all that I have on poor redemptions.

It takes time and research to get used to it, but you can get some amazing redemptions.

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

[ChiKid24]

Got an email today from Fidelity that their cash rewards card is now offering up to 5% cash back on select travel categories (hotel, airline tickets and cruises). On top of the 2% the card already pays, you get an extra 1% on purchases from $250-$999 in purchases and an extra 3% on $1,000-$2,000 in purchases from now through June 30, 2023. Email says I am automatically enrolled. First time I've see something like this from the Fidelity card. Good timing as we're looking to purchase some cruise tickets.

[MikeG62]

I’m the highest loyalty tier with a certain hotel conglomerate. Past two weeks I’ve been staying somewhere totally unaffiliated because it was the best option for my needs. If I took the loyalty status seriously I’d limit my options. So for me I prefer being free of the mindset where I’m choosing places based primarily on rewards. I don’t like feeling like I and my purchase decisions can be bought for a few free hotel nights or free upgrades to rooms they can’t fill anyway. But that’s likely a result of other factors.

I don’t currently do credit card rewards but may soon. As discussed previously I respond to incentives so I try to limit the incentives to which I am subject, or make them work in my favor such as my FSA.

+1

[dissentmemo]

I always use the Sapphire Preferred and Freedom Unlimited to build up UR points for Hyatt, although I have stopped using those cards mostly these days, mainly because I was not traveling during the pandemic and have not stayed in a Park Hyatt since 2019.

Chase also offers a Hyatt Visa, but the earnings rate is worse than the Sapphire Preferred unless you stay/pay cash at Hyatts often, which I don't.

I am also sitting on ~700k Amex points, but as you said, the redemption rates are so bad these days I feel like those are a waste too. I was trying to buy a business class ticket to France last fall and the cheapest I could find was a 600k ticket, and that was for one person.

You need to focus on transfer partners. I'm flying first class ANA round trip to Tokyo for 145k Amex transferred to Virgin

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/redee ... oints-ana/

I'll admit I am not great at finding the best redemptions for points. I need to get better at it because I don't want to waste all that I have on poor redemptions.

It takes time and research to get used to it, but you can get some amazing redemptions.

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

It's definitely something you have to enjoy doing. I don't disagree at all. It's a hobby in itself.

[Hector]

Am I missing something?

The sign up bonus. The ability to churn. The ability to get multiple as a family.

Can you please elaborate on the ability to churn and he ability to get multiple as a family?

[pizzy]

Am I missing something?

The sign up bonus. The ability to churn. The ability to get multiple as a family.

Can you please elaborate on the ability to churn and he ability to get multiple as a family?

You can get the Alaska Airlines card over and over and get the sign up bonus each time. Every adult in your family can get the card. There is also a small business version that just about anyone can get.

[Grogs]

I always use the Sapphire Preferred and Freedom Unlimited to build up UR points for Hyatt, although I have stopped using those cards mostly these days, mainly because I was not traveling during the pandemic and have not stayed in a Park Hyatt since 2019.

Chase also offers a Hyatt Visa, but the earnings rate is worse than the Sapphire Preferred unless you stay/pay cash at Hyatts often, which I don't.

I am also sitting on ~700k Amex points, but as you said, the redemption rates are so bad these days I feel like those are a waste too. I was trying to buy a business class ticket to France last fall and the cheapest I could find was a 600k ticket, and that was for one person.

You need to focus on transfer partners. I'm flying first class ANA round trip to Tokyo for 145k Amex transferred to Virgin

https://onemileatatime.com/guides/redee ... oints-ana/

I'll admit I am not great at finding the best redemptions for points. I need to get better at it because I don't want to waste all that I have on poor redemptions.

It takes time and research to get used to it, but you can get some amazing redemptions.

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

That seems like the catch to me. If you had been paying cash, maybe you would have booked a less convenient route for $3k or just flown coach for $1500. If it's not something you would have spent cash on, have you really saved $5k per ticket, even if that is the "sticker" price?

[THY4373]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

[EnjoyIt]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

[pizzy]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

Everything you need is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/wiki/index

[EnjoyIt]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

Everything you need is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/wiki/index

Thanks for the link, but that did not answer my question above.
I churn 2-3 cards a year and the spouse does 1-2 cards a year.

[pizzy]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

Everything you need is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/wiki/index

Thanks for the link, but that did not answer my question above.
I churn 2-3 cards a year and the spouse does 1-2 cards a year.

Sorry, I was responding to your question "How do you recommend one learn the game?"

If you meant the redemption game, this sub knows best: https://www.reddit.com/r/awardtravel/

[oilrig]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

Transfer your AMEX points to Avianca Lifemiles, and you can book United flights using Lifemiles on their website, since they are Star Alliance partners. The amount of points required to book United flights via Lifemiles is typically less than using the United site, and the taxes for international trips are often a lot less as well.

Ive been flying United via the above method for 7+ years.

[EnjoyIt]

Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it?

Honestly, other than $5k a ticket round trip to Europe in business class I have never got anything over 2 cents per point and honestly I would never have spent $10k for two tickets round trip. At least not back then when I used those points. But it was a novelty so I did it.

4 cents of value per point is certain above average but not insanely so. Tracking my redemptions for this year:

Previously mentioned flights to Australia at 4 cents per point,
Multiple flights home for son from college (big city so no car). 1.9 cents (had to book first class but valued against economy fare) to 3.7 cents of value for short domestic flights. Value centered around 2.9-3.2 across all flights. In the current air fare environment domestic economy is a good use of points unlike in the before times.
Flight to Europe in September 2.1 cents for flight in business.
Flight from Europe in September 6.7 cents (had a credit card upgrade certificate so booked premium economy but got business).
Flights to/from Turkey in Dec and Jan for son and me 3.7 cents in business.
Helped ex spend her points within the last month to fly to see family next month. Got 2.1 cents for travel in domestic economy.

And yes there is some work in all of this basically it is some combination of hobby/part time job. I manufacture spend to I put in more effort than most but also earn a bunch more points. I'd say my success is due to some of the following:

I enjoy the process of figuring out how to generate points and spend them.
I really enjoy travel.
I am solo, other than when I travel with my son. So it is much easier for me to find one seat vs 2, 3 or 4. Though honestly two isn't that bad either.
I am flexible in where and when I go. Over the last couple of years I have fired on Australia and French Polynesia when award availability became available.
I am planning ahead and often book my long haul flights 10-12 months out. When I retire I'll probably also do close in bookings.
I have been doing this for a decade and so I understand a lot of the in and outs. E.g. using Virgin points to fly on Delta is often a much better deal than using Delta points to fly Delta. Use Asia Miles to avoid some of the BA surcharge insanity, etc.

At the end of the day if you just want simplicity go for a 2% or more cash back card or three and call it done. This is probably the best for most folks.

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

Transfer your AMEX points to Avianca Lifemiles, and you can book United flights using Lifemiles on their website, since they are Star Alliance partners. The amount of points required to book United flights via Lifemiles is typically less than using the United site, and the taxes for international trips are often a lot less as well.

Ive been flying United via the above method for 7+ years.

You can do that with United domestic? If so that would be awesome if I can get better than 1.5 cents per point that way. Otherwise I just book through the chase portal. One benefit of doing it that way is that I still get the miles and status miles. booking through the portal. The only downside and it is a big downside is if you need to cancel the flight. You need to call in to re-book and sometimes availability of similar class ticket isn't the same on the rebook so you end up paying more. It happened only once to me but it was a bit of a hassle.

EDIT: I just tried booking a common United domestic flight I take and it would not let me book it via Avianca.

[pizzy]

You can do that with United domestic?

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/sweet-sp ... d-flights/

[Jags4186]

You can do that with United domestic? If so that would be awesome if I can get better than 1.5 cents per point that way. Otherwise I just book through the chase portal. One benefit of doing it that way is that I still get the miles and status miles. booking through the portal. The only downside and it is a big downside is if you need to cancel the flight. You need to call in to re-book and sometimes availability of similar class ticket isn't the same on the rebook so you end up paying more. It happened only once to me but it was a bit of a hassle.

EDIT: I just tried booking a common United domestic flight I take and it would not let me book it via Avianca.

Let me help you out here. In order to book a United (or Delta or AA) domestic flight through an alliance member's frequent flyer program the flight you want must be available as a Saver level award on the flight operator. That means in order to book a United flight on Avianca you need to be able to find the flight on United's website, logged out, as a Saver award. Once you do that, it doesn't necessarily mean you can find it on Avianca's website. If you can, great. If not, you have to call them with all the flight information and hope they can book it. It is a pain.

Here is an example. Let's say you want to fly from Newark to Charlotte. If you search United's website you can find the following Saver level awards for 9/8.



See how they all say "saver award"? That means they are bookable on partner airlines. But just because they are bookable, doesn't mean they will show up on the partner website. If I search the same flight on the Avianca Lifemiles website I only get the following options:



Notice how the morning flight options don't show up. That doesn't mean you can't book them, but it means you'll need to call. It is a PIA.

Also notice how you save 1,700 miles per ticket booking the Avianca. These flights cost $209 in economy. So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.72cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.3cpp.

But, now here comes the wrinkle. Presumably if you go on your trip you want to come back. The 1-way flight cost is $209, but the roundtrip cost is $227. The 1 way award cost is 7500LM/9200UA + $5.60 and the roundtrip award cost is 15,000LM/18,400UA + $11.20. Your CPP on the round trip segment is 1.44cpp with LM and 1.17cpp with UA.

[pizzy]

So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.9cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.4cpp.

I'm sure you know this but for others....

This why I hate cpp. You may be getting a better return on spend booking on United Miles (transferred from Chase) than Avianca (transferred from MR).

If you are averaging and earn rate of 1.5 MR per $1 spent, but averaging 3 UR per $1 spent. (very plausible)

But many people see 2.9 > 2.4 and stop there.

Spend $5,000 on amex, get 7,500 point / $227 flight via LM is a 4.5% return on spend.

Spend $3,067 on chase, get 9,200 point / $227 flight via UA is a 7.4% return on spend.

[Jags4186]

So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.9cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.4cpp.

I'm sure you know this but for others....

This why I hate cpp. You may be getting a better return on spend booking on United Miles (transferred from Chase) than Avianca (transferred from MR).

If you are averaging and earn rate of 1.5 MR per $1 spent, but averaging 3 UR per $1 spent. (very plausible)

But many people see 2.9 > 2.4 and stop there.

Spend $5,000 on amex, get 7,500 point / $227 flight via LM is a 4.5% return on spend.

Spend $3,067 on chase, get 9,200 point / $227 flight via UA is a 7.4% return on spend.

I edited my post to fix some numbers and add a few more thoughts. I agree, the only thing that matters is return on spend. That said, in general I think it's much easier to earn MR than UR and AMEX has much more frequent transfer bonuses than Chase does. I'd also add that points are basically all or nothing. If you only have 14,800 MR available in your account you can't book this round trip itinerary. But if you had $148 in cashback you could just pull $70 out of your pocket and go on this trip.

I'd also add that you're getting an economy flight. If you can get by with basic economy the round trip flight is only $167. If you have a United Explorer card you can just check your bags for free and board in Group 2.

[EnjoyIt]

You can do that with United domestic? If so that would be awesome if I can get better than 1.5 cents per point that way. Otherwise I just book through the chase portal. One benefit of doing it that way is that I still get the miles and status miles. booking through the portal. The only downside and it is a big downside is if you need to cancel the flight. You need to call in to re-book and sometimes availability of similar class ticket isn't the same on the rebook so you end up paying more. It happened only once to me but it was a bit of a hassle.

EDIT: I just tried booking a common United domestic flight I take and it would not let me book it via Avianca.

Let me help you out here. In order to book a United (or Delta or AA) domestic flight through an alliance member's frequent flyer program the flight you want must be available as a Saver level award on the flight operator. That means in order to book a United flight on Avianca you need to be able to find the flight on United's website, logged out, as a Saver award. Once you do that, it doesn't necessarily mean you can find it on Avianca's website. If you can, great. If not, you have to call them with all the flight information and hope they can book it. It is a pain.

Here is an example. Let's say you want to fly from Newark to Charlotte. If you search United's website you can find the following Saver level awards for 9/8.



See how they all say "saver award"? That means they are bookable on partner airlines. But just because they are bookable, doesn't mean they will show up on the partner website. If I search the same flight on the Avianca Lifemiles website I only get the following options:



Notice how the morning flight options don't show up. That doesn't mean you can't book them, but it means you'll need to call. It is a PIA.

Also notice how you save 1,700 miles per ticket booking the Avianca. These flights cost $209 in economy. So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.72cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.3cpp.

But, now here comes the wrinkle. Presumably if you go on your trip you want to come back. The 1-way flight cost is $209, but the roundtrip cost is $227. The 1 way award cost is 7500LM/9200UA + $5.60 and the roundtrip award cost is 15,000LM/18,400UA + $11.20. Your CPP on the round trip segment is 1.44cpp with LM and 1.17cpp with UA.

Thanks for the tutorial. Really appreciate it.

[spammagnet]

... Time and research. For some the time is worth the better redemption. For others it is just easier to take the easy redemption even if it’s not perfect. Get 2.625% cash back vs a few extra cents per point. Getting 4 cents per point while earning 5 points per dollar spent on a few hundred thousand points sounds awesome. But how often and how much work to accomplish it? ...

This is where I am. I have time to research for deals and can adapt to the required schedules, but I can't get past the complexity of the relationships to find the deals. It's too opaque. I already jump through hoops to get credit card and bank/brokerage account bonuses, so I'm not averse to investing the effort. I just don't seem to get it.

[EnjoyIt]

So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.9cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.4cpp.

I'm sure you know this but for others....

This why I hate cpp. You may be getting a better return on spend booking on United Miles (transferred from Chase) than Avianca (transferred from MR).

If you are averaging and earn rate of 1.5 MR per $1 spent, but averaging 3 UR per $1 spent. (very plausible)

But many people see 2.9 > 2.4 and stop there.

Spend $5,000 on amex, get 7,500 point / $227 flight via LM is a 4.5% return on spend.

Spend $3,067 on chase, get 9,200 point / $227 flight via UA is a 7.4% return on spend.

I would also add that there are plenty of ways to get 5 points per dollar via chase.

[pizzy]

So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.9cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.4cpp.

I'm sure you know this but for others....

This why I hate cpp. You may be getting a better return on spend booking on United Miles (transferred from Chase) than Avianca (transferred from MR).

If you are averaging and earn rate of 1.5 MR per $1 spent, but averaging 3 UR per $1 spent. (very plausible)

But many people see 2.9 > 2.4 and stop there.

Spend $5,000 on amex, get 7,500 point / $227 flight via LM is a 4.5% return on spend.

Spend $3,067 on chase, get 9,200 point / $227 flight via UA is a 7.4% return on spend.

I would also add that there are plenty of ways to get 5 points per dollar via chase.

I agree, that's why I said "averaging 3" - you aren't getting lots of points at 5 per, absent SUBs

[Jags4186]

So if you book with Avianca you would get a redemption value of 2.9cpp and if you were to book with United miles you'd get a value of 2.4cpp.

I'm sure you know this but for others....

This why I hate cpp. You may be getting a better return on spend booking on United Miles (transferred from Chase) than Avianca (transferred from MR).

If you are averaging and earn rate of 1.5 MR per $1 spent, but averaging 3 UR per $1 spent. (very plausible)

But many people see 2.9 > 2.4 and stop there.

Spend $5,000 on amex, get 7,500 point / $227 flight via LM is a 4.5% return on spend.

Spend $3,067 on chase, get 9,200 point / $227 flight via UA is a 7.4% return on spend.

I would also add that there are plenty of ways to get 5 points per dollar via chase.

And there are way more ways to get 5 points or better with AMEX. AMEX is king of the earn on the points side. But the reality is, at this stage of my life I am not in a position to jet off to Europe or the Maldives in business class even if I had the means and desire. This is why I have shifted to cashback. Besides maxing out my and my wife's SYW Mastercards--which IMO offer a better return than even the very best points redemptions can get you, albeit on limited spend--I just want to be earning 5% everywhere. I am practically there.

[ResearchMed]

This is where I am. I have time to research for deals and can adapt to the required schedules, but I can't get past the complexity of the relationships to find the deals. It's too opaque. I already jump through hoops to get credit card and bank/brokerage account bonuses, so I'm not averse to investing the effort. I just don't seem to get it.

This is sort of where we were 5-10 years ago (counting gets fuzzy from 2020-2023...).
I had booked F (*F*!) tickets for both of us on JAL to Tokyo on my first try. "Easy", says I.
Honk.
I could not get any tickets back.

So I turned to the list of awards services on www.FlyerTalker.com
We get high end tickets that sometimes would be high 4-figures or even 5-figures per person.
So adding something like $100-$200 pp for the "help" is well worth it indeed.

Those services are almost constantly looking, and they have some software that we don't have (and don't want to bother with all the time anyway). And they've come up with some creative routing that we wouldn't have thought of. And we always have the final yeah/nay say about whether we want "those" tickets. But one sometimes needs to act fast, as the good seats can get snapped up fast.

We've had some glorious travels now, and we sometimes wish we didn't have to get off the flight (really).
Cathay Pacific F? Beds are 33 inches wide for sleeping, almost like a regular twin bed.
And their lounge in Hong Kong is amazing.
Ditto the Concorde Room at Heathrow, for F on BA.
Even the J/business class on the top international airlines can be really, really nice.

THESE types of tickets are where the real bang for the buck comes, at least for us.

Note: Someone mentioned a short time ago about being able to change from coach to business.
Note that getting F or J tickets really only makes sense in terms of $$ value -->> IF you would have paid cash otherwise. If you would have only paid for coach, the "bargain" might not be so great.
And we decided a few years ago that "no more sitting up" for long haul. Thus far, there was only one time we had to pay for Business class, and that was painful... but otherwise, we wouldn't have gone. (And that time was because it was very short notice and not much flexibility; not a good time to try for good awards availability.)

I suspect all airline availability is scarce now due to bounce-back travel after 3 Covid years. We are about to try for our first international trip since the before times, for later this year.

RM

[spammagnet]

This is where I am. I have time to research for deals and can adapt to the required schedules, but I can't get past the complexity of the relationships to find the deals. It's too opaque. I already jump through hoops to get credit card and bank/brokerage account bonuses, so I'm not averse to investing the effort. I just don't seem to get it.

This is sort of where we were 5-10 years ago (counting gets fuzzy from 2020-2023...).
I had booked F (*F*!) tickets for both of us on JAL to Tokyo on my first try. "Easy", says I.
Honk.
I could not get any tickets back.

So I turned to the list of awards services on www.FlyerTalker.com
We get high end tickets that sometimes would be high 4-figures or even 5-figures per person.
So adding something like $100-$200 pp for the "help" is well worth it indeed.

Those services are almost constantly looking, and they have some software that we don't have (and don't want to bother with all the time anyway). And they've come up with some creative routing that we wouldn't have thought of. And we always have the final yeah/nay say about whether we want "those" tickets. But one sometimes needs to act fast, as the good seats can get snapped up fast. ...

Which services do you have personal experience with. Do you prefer some more than others?

[Morik]

Outside of churn which I may or may not do in the future, depends on how much patience my wife has with me for switching which card(s) to use, my current setup is:

Bofa platinum honors with:
Custom cash: 5.25% online purchases (includes doordash/grubhub/etc orders), 3.5% groceries and costco (combined limit of $2500/quarter, afterwards down to 1.75% on all purchases)

Premium travel rewards: 3.5% dining, 3.5% travel (includes parking/mass transit/etc), 2.62% everything else, no caps.
$95 annual fee. $100 in airline incidental credit tends to balance that out.

Chase Amazon rewards card: 5% on amazon, whole foods

I'm a year out from being able to get a 2nd custom cash card (I read you have to wait 2 years from the first one), and don't want to park another $100k at merrill to qualify wife with platinum honors so we can't get a 2nd one through her (well we could, but it would only be 3%/2%/1% instead of 5.25%/3.5%/1.75%).

I'm thinking of citi custom cash cards--one for groceries (bumps that to 5% from 3.5%, and leaves more room for the 5.25% category spending on the BofA custom cash since the groceries & chosen 5.25% category share a cap), one for dining (bump from 3.5% to 5%). I would get one and wife would get one.

And then when the time limit is up, get a 2nd bofa custom cash for dining and use the other citi custom cash for either gas or drugstores (or just ditch it--we only spend about $100 a month on each of those, and my wife would appreciate fewer cards).

So then we'd have:
5.25% online shopping/food delivery (up to $2500/quarter)
5.25% dining (up to $2500/quarter), 3.5% afterwards (no cap)
5% groceries (up to $500/month), 3.5% afterwards (via either of the bofa custom cash cards, shares cap with 5.25% categories)
5% amazon & whole foods
3.5% costco
3.5% travel
2.62% everything else

That would be on 5 total cards: Amazon card, bofa premium travel, two bofa custom cashback cards, and one citi custom cash card. Could use the 2nd citi custom cash as a swap out if we hit the cap... I'll have to see what my wife will tolerate.

We spend somewhere around 60-80k annually on cards.

[spammagnet]

... depends on how much patience my wife has with me for switching which card(s) to use, ...

My wife is willing to participate as long as I keep it simple. Basically I swap out the cards in her wallet to the flavor of the month. We always have a primary card and a backup card from a different bank in case the primary gets denied for some reason. Occasionally, if worthwhile, I'll label a card like "gas" and "not gas" but otherwise require no decisions on her part. Just use the primary card.

Generating a report in Quicken showing our annual income from credit card and bank bonuses helps engage her interest.

[dissentmemo]

Also look into Curve card. It lets you hold one card but put other cards in the back-end. Currently just Mastercard, soon Visa.

Also if you're just focusing on SUBs, don't sweat making P2 change cards. Let them use whatever makes sense and hit the SUBs yourself.

[Leguna Seca]

After doing some research on this topic, I can’t help but think a lot of cards force situations where the rewards tail is wagging the spend dog. Perhaps they were designed this way. I just want to follow the Pareto principle where I can get 80% of the benefit while exerting minimum effort thinking about this stuff.

Any advice for a strategy, similar to a Boglehead 3 fund portfolio where I can get a solid ROI without having to jump through hoops? Somewhere that’s a bit more involved than getting a single 2% cash back card, yet not having to carry a man purse full of cards to optimize each category? I read about this thing called a Chase trifecta, is that still a gold standard in 2023?

[THY4373]

How do you recommend one learn the game? Flyertalk is overly complicated. For example, we fly united and Delta domestic regularly. We have a decent amount of Chase and Amex points. Is there a partner that makes it worthwhile to transfer points to and get a better redemption that 1.5 cents with chase or 1.1 cents with Amex?

With chase I have the CSR so 1.5 cents per point.
Amex I have the Schwab Amex platinum so worst case scenario is cash conversion at 1.1cents per point.

Honestly I am not sure there is any short cut. I have an RSS feed to a bunch of a major bloggers and spend time on FT and Reddit. I have just learned things slowly over time. There are some award search tools (most have some sort of cost) that can help you find some of the sweet spots and you can always use booking services. At the end of the day frequent flyer programs are incredibly complex and opaque. That makes them hard to learn but it also means there are inevitable sweet spots that are either unintended or just not worth the hassle of fixing.