Why are lightning rods not commonly found in residential homes?

[Aggieland]

In Texas, I hear a lot of lightning incidents and see a few in and around our place( home fire due to lightning)

When I drive around our neighborhood, I see 99.9% of homes don’t have lightning rods. Even expensive homes don’t have them.

I am curious to learn if there is a history behind these designs , if they were more prevalent in the past or in some areas?

Looks like mortgage underwriters, home insurance is willing to not enforce lightning protection? I hear in commercial space, the insurers make it a requirement ?

Any perspective on this topic?

[GreendaleCC]

There are usually other objects nearby that are taller than the houses?

[snackdog]

Texas is one state where lightning is pretty common and everyone should have a protection system for their house, particularly if there are no trees near the house which are taller than the roof. I know two or three people who have had major losses from their house getting zapped.

[Seal the Deal]

Cost. $2-3k for most houses, which is not worth the very low risk for most people. Obviously the risk is higher where lightning is most common (FL, TX, GA, etc.) and physical features are most favorable (tall house, tall trees very close to house).

[rich126]

Cost. $2-3k for most houses, which is not worth the very low risk for most people. Obviously the risk is higher where lightning is most common (FL, TX, GA, etc.) and physical features are most favorable (tall house, tall trees very close to house).

I have no idea how low/high the risk is but since most homes cost a lot more, the $2-3K (if accurate) is only about 0.5% - 1% of the house cost. I had a grandmother that hated storms (in Maryland) because she saw a neighbors house burn down due to a lightning strike.

Has never been a concern of mine but I think if someone told me $2K would reduce the odds to near zero, I might just say "do it".

[Yarlonkol12]

Honestly it's not something I've ever thought of, but it sounds like I live in a higher risk area (Near Atlanta GA), so I'll have to look into it

[Seal the Deal]

Cost. $2-3k for most houses, which is not worth the very low risk for most people. Obviously the risk is higher where lightning is most common (FL, TX, GA, etc.) and physical features are most favorable (tall house, tall trees very close to house).

I have no idea how low/high the risk is but since most homes cost a lot more, the $2-3K (if accurate) is only about 0.5% - 1% of the house cost. I had a grandmother that hated storms (in Maryland) because she saw a neighbors house burn down due to a lightning strike.

Has never been a concern of mine but I think if someone told me $2K would reduce the odds to near zero, I might just say "do it".

For most bogleheads it's probably a favorable cost/benefit analysis. General population probably not.

The $2-3k was pre-covid. Maybe somebody will chime in with a more recent quote.

Here's a lightning density map from 2019 (includes cloud-to-cloud flashes): https://www.vaisala.com/sites/default/f ... LSAW_2.png

[nisiprius]

I have often wondered about this myself, and never found a satisfactory answer.

We live in the New England area, and it's not common but you do see lightning rods occasionally on old farmhouses. I hope my memory isn't playing tricks and that I'm not just remembering the Andrew Wyeth painting. Pretty sure I've seen them in Wisconsin rural areas, too.

Our previous house was on the top of a hill, elevation about 150'. It didn't feel exposed because of being surrounded by trees, other houses, etc. but we did get occasional strokes close enough to... make us want to hide under the bed. The room would light up for an instant, as with a photo flash, with a bluish color, and the thunder and lightning would be simultaneous. And I would say at least twice trees in our neighborhood--not on our property--were hit, in one case they removed a major limb afterwards, in another the whole tree. Maybe "trees" is the answer?

We were concerned enough to have a whole-house surge protector installed at cost of $600, although we had never experienced any surge damage. The circuit breaker panel here has a built-in whole-house surge protector, maybe they are standard in new electrical installations nowadays.

[ScubaHogg]

I live in a southern state that frequently gets lightening. However, it is an area with a lot of trees.

Despite living here for decades, I’ve never even heard of someone I know have their house struck by lightening

[dukeblue219]

Automatic sprinkler systems would probably save a lot more homes over time, and those are only starting to be mandatory for new construction (https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/ ... he%20state.)

[dbr]

In almost 8 decades living here, there, or wherever only once do I recall a lightening strike within a few hundred yards of my house. That one split a tree.

So, one would think there would be exposure data for specific cases that could justify a little money spent. Probably the tipping point is when your insurance company won't insure without installation of lightening rods. If anyone has the analysis it would be them.

Barns on top of hills probably justify that, but one I am familiar with was blown down by wind rather than set on fire by lightening. I think it did have lightening rods.

[snackdog]

...

We were concerned enough to have a whole-house surge protector installed at cost of $600, although we had never experienced any surge damage. The circuit breaker panel here has a built-in whole-house surge protector, maybe they are standard in new electrical installations nowadays.

The whole house surge protector is great insurance against spikes coming in through your electrical service. I don't see how it would help if lightning strikes the house since that would be bypassing the surge protector.

[snackdog]

Automatic sprinkler systems would probably save a lot more homes over time, and those are only starting to be mandatory for new construction (https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/ ... he%20state.)

I think more homes are damaged by water than anything else. Not sure how much is from sprinklers - they seem pretty reliable.

[WillRetire]

...

We were concerned enough to have a whole-house surge protector installed at cost of $600, although we had never experienced any surge damage. The circuit breaker panel here has a built-in whole-house surge protector, maybe they are standard in new electrical installations nowadays.

The whole house surge protector is great insurance against spikes coming in through your electrical service. I don't see how it would help if lightning strikes the house since that would be bypassing the surge protector.

Also, the power of a lightning strike is immense. A surge protector has limitations and is meant to protect against surges from the electricity service, as you say.

Interesting thread.

[Shackleton]

We used to live on large acreage (36 ac) that had few trees, and none near the house. (This was outside Co Springs, which gets a lot of lightening — crazy weather when you live next the the Rocky Mountains, and the area we were in had been cleared of trees in the early 1900s to build the town of Co Springs). We had two lightening strikes on our property during the 15 years we lived there. One was on a hillside during a “dry lightening storm” (meaning it wasn’t raining) and it started a grass fire that burned about 3 acres. The other was when a strike hit the electrical transformer (not sure what it is technically called, it was at the top of a telephone pole, which was the last above ground pole before the electricity wires were buried to go to our house.) Our house was the only one served by that transformer, and it completely fried all electronics that weren’t plugged into a high quality surge protector. So the computers, TV, dvd player (this was a while ago…) and Xbox survived. Things like the toaster did not. Interestingly, it didn’t impact any of the lamps. Maybe because they weren’t turned on?

[Roque]

Lightning is a matter of probability, and most homeowners already have the odds in their favor without doing anything special. To be clear, NOAA gives the odds of being struck in a person's lifetime at 1/15,300. The data are less clear for strikes to dwellings.

A lightning rod serves to increase the probability of a strike at the location of choice. This makes sense for certain places (e.g., expensive aircraft parked on a flat runway or very tall buildings with equipment on the roof) where the strike can be diverted to a safe location away from expensive things, assuming the separate return to earth ground is installed and maintained appropriately. The issue with installing the rod on your home is that you are increasing the probability of a strike to something that is attached to your dwelling. There is disagreement about the value of doing this, but I tend to fall on the side of not doing it. If you live in suburbia, the odds are already quite slim that your home will be struck. If you live in the middle of a great field with no larger structures, it may be worth your while to install a rod that increases the probability that it will be struck and not your home. Whole home lightning arrestors do exist and may be worth a look, but again, even a close strike will destroy electronics. A surge protector may provide more for peace of mind without causing any real harm. I would recommend reading more about the rolling sphere method for probability of lightning strike if you are interested.

[freakyfriday]

Lightening rods make hits more likely but limits damage mostly from low energy hits.

The calculus of if it's worth it can be complex.

If hits are rare why make them more likely? If the hit leads to damage are you liable for it?

Unless your house has a high risk of being hit it just doesn't make sense to try and mitigate it compared with trying to avoid a hit in the first place.

[dbr]

Lightening rods make hits more likely but limits damage mostly from low energy hits.

The calculus of if it's worth it can be complex.

If hits are rare why make them more likely? If the hit leads to damage are you liable for it?

Unless your house has a high risk of being hit it just doesn't make sense to try and mitigate it compared with trying to avoid a hit in the first place.

It might be interesting to somehow determine the effect of actually putting lightning rods on some fraction of the houses in a residential neighborhood compared to all of them or none of them.

I think in the real world this is a non-problem in residential neighborhoods but might be worth some thought for a rural home at a high elevation relative to the surroundings.

[Sandtrap]

In Texas, I hear a lot of lightning incidents and see a few in and around our place( home fire due to lightning)

When I drive around our neighborhood, I see 99.9% of homes don’t have lightning rods. Even expensive homes don’t have them.

I am curious to learn if there is a history behind these designs , if they were more prevalent in the past or in some areas?

Looks like mortgage underwriters, home insurance is willing to not enforce lightning protection? I hear in commercial space, the insurers make it a requirement ?

Any perspective on this topic?

Several years ago lightning tore into the shingle roof of a large hillside custom home down the road from me.
The fire left nothing standing.

high elevation rural expensive 3 story home
severe monsoon storm

Good case for tile roofing.
j

[sc9182]

Lightening rods make hits more likely but limits damage mostly from low energy hits.

The calculus of if it's worth it can be complex.

If hits are rare why make them more likely? If the hit leads to damage are you liable for it?

Unless your house has a high risk of being hit it just doesn't make sense to try and mitigate it compared with trying to avoid a hit in the first place.

hmm - interesting.

In suburban medium-size lot setting: Would it be better if
we subsidize neighbor’s lighting rod install ? (than installing one for our own). Or offer a “free/subsidized” dish service for a year !?

[conservativeinvestor]

where we live in the northeast the trees always get hit, i've seen this happen twice in my life but don't know anyone who's house has been hit directly. One of our neighbors had one of the old metal over the air tv antennas on a big tower that got hit once and damaged their tv and some electronics but nothing too serious.

I've never thought about this and was curious, a quick google search shows Florida, Texas, Georgia and California have the highest number of home owners insurance claims for lightning strikes with 3,000 to 5,000 claims per year for each state, doesn't seem like a big problem unless you are one of those people that get hit, insurance claims run from $12,000 in Georgia to $36,000 in California.

[JPH]

Lightening rods make hits more likely but limits damage mostly from low energy hits.

Lightning rods do not attract lightning. They merely provide an alternative low resistance pathway if struck.

[Roque]

Lightening rods make hits more likely but limits damage mostly from low energy hits.

Lightning rods do not attract lightning. They merely provide an alternative low resistance pathway if struck.

This is an accurate statement that is often repeated, but the distinction is artificial as the outcome is functionally equivalent. By providing a more attractive path for lightning, the probability of strike must increase. This has been discussed ad nauseam in many venues. The financial implication is whether the cost for installing a metal rod on a property is viable. I would propose that in most cases it is not. One would be better served by taking other actions that decrease probability of injury at home, like reducing hazards that cause slips and falls.

[Watty]

It might be interesting to somehow determine the effect of actually putting lightning rods on some fraction of the houses in a residential neighborhood compared to all of them or none of them.

You could call your home insurance company and ask them how much of a discount they will give you on your home insurance if you get lightning rods installed.

That could give you an idea of how many years the insurance savings will take to pay back the cost of the lighting rods.

[freakyfriday]

Lightening rods by design also become an ioniser of air during a thunderstorm and the build up.

They certainly do also grab side flashes.

Compared to a a wet tree a wet house is not particularly appealing path for lightening. A lightening rod changes that before and during a stroke.

[valleyrock]

The problem is that it's impossible these days to find anyone with the equipment to recharge lightning rods. For some reason, these people seem to have gone out of business years ago!

[andypanda]

"NOAA gives the odds of being struck in a person's lifetime at 1/15,300."
___________

fwiw

"One ranger at Shenandoah National Park, Roy Sullivan, holds an apparent world record for surviving seven separate lightning strikes between 1942 and 1977. He finally died in 1983, not from direct effects of a lightning strike but by suicide. A record of his lightning strikes notes:9

The first time was in 1942 when he worked in a lookout tower. The strike caused him to lose his big toe nail.
In 1969, he was driving along a mountain road with his window open when the bolt struck. He lost his eye brows.
In 1970, he was walking across his yard to get the mail when lightning struck. His shoulder was seared.
In 1972, he was standing in the office at the ranger station when lightning set his hair on fire.
In 1973, after his hair had grown back, he was struck again. His hair was again set on fire and his legs were seared.
In 1976, while checking on a campsite he was struck, injuring his ankle.
His last and seventh encounter [on June 26, 1977] was while fishing. Lightning caused chest and stomach burns."

- from www.virginiaplaces.org/climate/lightning.html

[Aggieland]

It might be interesting to somehow determine the effect of actually putting lightning rods on some fraction of the houses in a residential neighborhood compared to all of them or none of them.

You could call your home insurance company and ask them how much of a discount they will give you on your home insurance if you get lightning rods installed.

That could give you an idea of how many years the insurance savings will take to pay back the cost of the lighting rods.

Zero dollars in discount by insurance company!!

[GettingComfortable]

{I've only skimmed through the thread, so this may have been mentioned.}

Long ago, most non-center-city houses did have air terminals with grounds. They were our OTA TV, CB, ham, etc. antennas. If properly installed, they had ground wires attached to their masts.

Anyone know the stats on house fires with and without grounded air terminal devices? Hopefully with unprotected, fully-protected, and antennas-only figures separate.

[adamthesmythe]

Because we stopped having TV antennas.

[Doctor Rhythm]

With reliable, bountiful electricity available from the utility company, one no longer requires nature’s help when reanimating the dead.

[uaeebs86]

With reliable, bountiful electricity available from the utility company, one no longer requires nature’s help when reanimating the dead.

Or recharging a flux capacitor.

[JBTX]

In Texas, I hear a lot of lightning incidents and see a few in and around our place( home fire due to lightning)

When I drive around our neighborhood, I see 99.9% of homes don’t have lightning rods. Even expensive homes don’t have them.

I am curious to learn if there is a history behind these designs , if they were more prevalent in the past or in some areas?

Looks like mortgage underwriters, home insurance is willing to not enforce lightning protection? I hear in commercial space, the insurers make it a requirement ?

Any perspective on this topic?

To answer your question I don’t know.

I live in north texas and probably 20 years ago there was a very intense lighting storm around Southlake, and two different people I work with had fire and electrical damage. It happens.

Having said that, we don’t have one. We have some fairly tall trees close by so that may help, so long as it doesn’t fall on the house.

[nisiprius]

I am trying to remember what a "lightning arrester" does. I think it is used with antennas, and supposedly steers the lightning to ground instead of into the receiver. I think the essential device was either a pair of electrodes with an air gap, or a gas discharge tube. Yeah... Lightning arrester . Do a roof antenna and lightning arrestor do the job of a lightning rod?

[livesoft]

An immediate neighbor's tall pine tree (taller than homes) was struck by lightning and basically exploded. One of our outdoor AC units on opposite side of lightning strike had the thickest gauge wiring in it melted. The house has a large copper rod pounded into the ground and connected our internal plumbing by a thick copper wire bolted to the outdoor hose bib and that copper rod.

I wonder if lightning rods really are 100% reliable anyways.

[tetractys]

Around here either planes or trees are hit, and sometimes metal sheds or people. We have hilltops covered with charred trees that beg the question of how those trees ever grew in the first place. If any houses have been hit in the last 50 years we haven’t heard.

The Smith Tower in Seattle has a lightning rod mounted directly above its glass and iron observation globe. How lucky it would be to arrange an appointment for the opportune moment!

We’re open for a way to capture lightning into battery storage for the grid.

[pshonore]

An immediate neighbor's tall pine tree (taller than homes) was struck by lightning and basically exploded. One of our outdoor AC units on opposite side of lightning strike had the thickest gauge wiring in it melted. The house has a large copper rod pounded into the ground and connected our internal plumbing by a thick copper wire bolted to the outdoor hose bib and that copper rod.

I wonder if lightning rods really are 100% reliable anyways.

We had a similar experience almost 20 years ago. Lightning struck a good sized oak about 50 feet from house. It then traveled toward our house and found an Invisible Dog Fence wire buried just under the surface in the front yard, followed that to where the fence wire enters the house and connects to the transmitter. There was a lightning arrestor on the outside wall at that point. I found 1/2 of the arrestor about 40 feet away. Some minor electrical damage to garage door opener, modems, cable boxes, well pump, etc. Called insurance co. who advised to hire an electrician to document damage which was reimbursed. I found a much better arrester and we have not had a problem since. It was odd that you could see in the disturbed grass exactly the path it took. As mentioned , Electrical code requires an outside 8 foot copper ground connected to your service panel. We had our outdoor entrance panel/meter replaced about 10 years ago and I was surprised as I watched an 8 foot rod being pounded into our rocky New England soil.

[kevinf]

An immediate neighbor's tall pine tree (taller than homes) was struck by lightning and basically exploded. One of our outdoor AC units on opposite side of lightning strike had the thickest gauge wiring in it melted. The house has a large copper rod pounded into the ground and connected our internal plumbing by a thick copper wire bolted to the outdoor hose bib and that copper rod.

I wonder if lightning rods really are 100% reliable anyways.

Lightning rods can't do anything about induced current / EMP effects of a close strike. The entire electrical system would need to be hardened (heavy guage wiring, faraday cages, bulky insulation, large wiring gaps, etc) to survive a direct/close strike without some kind of failure immediately after the strike.

So as always, the answer is... it's cheaper up front not to.

[stats99]

Florida in general, and Tampa in specific, get the most amount of strikes per year. My friends homes there have often been hit and many utilize a surge protection system.

[Roque]

An immediate neighbor's tall pine tree (taller than homes) was struck by lightning and basically exploded. One of our outdoor AC units on opposite side of lightning strike had the thickest gauge wiring in it melted. The house has a large copper rod pounded into the ground and connected our internal plumbing by a thick copper wire bolted to the outdoor hose bib and that copper rod.

I wonder if lightning rods really are 100% reliable anyways.

We had a similar experience almost 20 years ago. Lightning struck a good sized oak about 50 feet from house. It then traveled toward our house and found an Invisible Dog Fence wire buried just under the surface in the front yard, followed that to where the fence wire enters the house and connects to the transmitter. There was a lightning arrestor on the outside wall at that point. I found 1/2 of the arrestor about 40 feet away. Some minor electrical damage to garage door opener, modems, cable boxes, well pump, etc. Called insurance co. who advised to hire an electrician to document damage which was reimbursed. I found a much better arrester and we have not had a problem since. It was odd that you could see in the disturbed grass exactly the path it took. As mentioned , Electrical code requires an outside 8 foot copper ground connected to your service panel. We had our outdoor entrance panel/meter replaced about 10 years ago and I was surprised as I watched an 8 foot rod being pounded into our rocky New England soil.

You'll notice it's not at all odd and what lightning does if you view this video of a strike in slow motion: https://youtu.be/dukkO7c2eUE. You can see the probability function of the strike in real time.

[ClevrChico]

The trees and power poles seem to take the lightning strikes here, which does happen. A house getting hit is so rare, that it would make the news if it did.

[Scubadude]

In Texas, I hear a lot of lightning incidents and see a few in and around our place( home fire due to lightning)

When I drive around our neighborhood, I see 99.9% of homes don’t have lightning rods. Even expensive homes don’t have them.

I am curious to learn if there is a history behind these designs , if they were more prevalent in the past or in some areas?

Looks like mortgage underwriters, home insurance is willing to not enforce lightning protection? I hear in commercial space, the insurers make it a requirement ?

Any perspective on this topic?

In many ways it could be a real community service to your neighborhood- as stated in other posts it’s a somewhat effective as a wave guide for lighting. Of course your property would be down range of the strike, but in theory protecting other boarding homes.

[Carguy85]

My neighbors 5 year old house they had custom built was hit and burned up the upstairs/attic…one could imagine how the first floor was destroyed though as well with all the water putting out the top floor. took nearly a year before they could move back in. I figured the $2500 for a lightning rod system on the roof was a drop in the bucket compared to what they went through(they ended up doing the same). I talked to some firefighters and indeed a it’s not all that uncommon at all. There was no insurance discount though. I figured it’s like a lot of things that are way off the radar for most.

[TT]

I will tell you about my experience with lightning.
After building my house in a large open meadow lined with trees on the east and west side the second summer
our house was hit with a strike that burned out the TV, stove and radio.
Also this storm exploded a large ash tree about 75 feet from my house
and left wood fragments all over the lawn.
I subsequently had a professional install a lightning protection sytem that grounded water pipes, electrical box, the well, the fuel lines in the house.
There is 5/8 inch copper cable with 6 air terminals across the top of the roof leading to 3 eight foot copper ground termination rods on the west side and the east side of the house driven into the ground.
Protection systems are to be installed by tradesmen certified by the Lightning Protection Institute to meet Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. code 96A, National Fire Protection Association code 780 and Lightning Protection Institute code 175.
Decades later and countless storms and not ever a flickering light.

[meebers]

Where is the lightning capital of the U.S.? Orlando Florida........my home town

I put a surge protector on the power box to my AC and after one storm, a black smudge mark was where the protector used to be. AC still worked.

Lived in Biloxi MS and lightning hit the house [4 am]and one of my bedrooms remained lit up after one strike. It had set the curtains on fire and fried the 120 wire to one outlet. When the lightning hit and before the thunder, I could hear "crackling" in the house.

[bombcar]

There are usually other objects nearby that are taller than the houses?

This is it entirely. If you’re not the tallest thing around your risk is very very low.

And the cost of a direct strike may not be that high, especially if the surge protectors actually protect (they won’t).

If you’re a farmhouse in the middle of a giant field you want one, but probably on the barn.

[c.coyle]

A lightning rod can be useful if a lightning bolt hits your home. So, isn't the threshold question "what are the odds of a lightning bolt hitting my home?"

[valleyrock]

A lightning rod can be useful if a lightning bolt hits your home. So, isn't the threshold question "what are the odds of a lightning bolt hitting my home?"

Speaking as an engineer, it seems to me that if lightning rods were important, then municipal codes would require them as part of issuing construction permits. I'd have to check, but probably the codes do require lightning rod/arrestor systems for high-rise buildings. There are also national fire standards to check as a way of helping decide whethere someone wants to have one of these systems installed, whether or not there's a requirement.

[bertilak]

Perhaps I am wrong but I thought the purpose of lightening rods was to "drain" the static energy before it could build up to the point where a strike would occur.

[littlebird]

Amazing high speed camera shows how lightning rods attract -and apparently compete for - lightning.

https://gizmodo.com/how-does-a-lightnin ... 1850225334