Seeking better charts

[PapaB]

The performance charts provided by brokerage houses and web resources do not seem to provide in any accessible way the information that I and I assume most investors want, or perhaps I just do not know how to get it. The most straightforward information I want is to see is some measure of total market return, including current price, dividends, etc. Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one. The next most useful item would be to add to this chart an option for the effects of inflation by some well-accepted measure or some similar way to convert it to real dollars. These simple charts would provide much more value to me than those I find on the web. The informatoin I can find focuses only on current price, though it has a great number of options to add many analyses, but not these analyses. Is there a way to get this information on the freely accessible web or in the brokerage house web sites?

[ScubaHogg]

Portfoliovisualizer.com

Portfoliocharts.com

[exodusNH]

The performance charts provided by brokerage houses and web resources do not seem to provide in any accessible way the information that I and I assume most investors want, or perhaps I just do not know how to get it. The most straightforward information I want is to see is some measure of total market return, including current price, dividends, etc. Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one. The next most useful item would be to add to this chart an option for the effects of inflation by some well-accepted measure or some similar way to convert it to real dollars. These simple charts would provide much more value to me than those I find on the web. The informatoin I can find focuses only on current price, though it has a great number of options to add many analyses, but not these analyses. Is there a way to get this information on the freely accessible web or in the brokerage house web sites?

Portfoliovisualizer.com is one possibility.

[Taylor Larimore]

The performance charts provided by brokerage houses and web resources do not seem to provide in any accessible way the information that I and I assume most investors want, or perhaps I just do not know how to get it. The most straightforward information I want is to see is some measure of total market return, including current price, dividends, etc. Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one. The next most useful item would be to add to this chart an option for the effects of inflation by some well-accepted measure or some similar way to convert it to real dollars. These simple charts would provide much more value to me than those I find on the web. The informatoin I can find focuses only on current price, though it has a great number of options to add many analyses, but not these analyses. Is there a way to get this information on the freely accessible web or in the brokerage house web sites?

PapaB:

I normally use Morningstar for reliable investment information and fund data.

Best wishes.
Taylor

Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "It is no exaggeration to say that the superb Morningstar service provides all the information an investor could possibly need to evaluate a fund's characteristics, to understand a fund's persona, and to make informed decisions."

[PapaB]

Thank you. I was unaware of these options. However, they all seem fee-based, even for these straight-forward results. Are there other options without fees?

[ScubaHogg]

Thank you. I was unaware of these options. However, they all seem fee-based, even for these straight-forward results. Are there other options without fees?

There are many many free things you can do on both the sites I linked. Why do you think you need to pay a fee?

[johny777]

https://www.barchart.com/

[alex_686]

Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one.

Growth of 10k is a regulatory mandated chart. That is why that is there. It is very tightly defined. It is accurate down to the penny.

Anything else becomes problematic, kind off. Those free ones are not accurate down to the penny even if results are to the penny. Change the assumptions a bit and you are going to get slightly different results. I doubt these minor variations would matter to you but they would to tge regulators who oversee the marketing.

[dogagility]

Thank you. I was unaware of these options. However, they all seem fee-based, even for these straight-forward results. Are there other options without fees?

The portfoliovisualizer site has free tools.

[PapaB]

Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one.

Growth of 10k is a regulatory mandated chart. That is why that is there. It is very tightly defined. It is accurate down to the penny.

Anything else becomes problematic, kind off. Those free ones are not accurate down to the penny even if results are to the penny. Change the assumptions a bit and you are going to get slightly different results. I doubt these minor variations would matter to you but they would to tge regulators who oversee the marketing.

My ignorance is showing. I did not know the 10k chart is mandated and defined via regulation. Where can I learn about other similar requirements?

[Beensabu]

Thank you. I was unaware of these options. However, they all seem fee-based, even for these straight-forward results. Are there other options without fees?

The portfoliovisualizer site has free tools.

The portfoliocharts site also has free tools.

[Beensabu]

Lookee here at the very free portfoliovisualizer.

It doesn't give you current price or break out dividends, but it does give you total return.

If you click on the "i" in the black circle in the "performance summary" section, you will get the inflation-adjusted result.

You can also backtest asset class allocations, in addition to using specific tickers. If you want to know what data they use for those asset classes, you can go here and click on "data sources for asset class returns": https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/faq

They also have a Monte Carlo simulator available, and factor regression analysis, and all sorts of other nifty tools to nerd out on for hours on end - that are indeed free.

[placeholder]

With morningstar I find it easiest to start with a traditional mutual fund to compare etfs because the default is growth of 10k.

[chassis]

The performance charts provided by brokerage houses and web resources do not seem to provide in any accessible way the information that I and I assume most investors want, or perhaps I just do not know how to get it. The most straightforward information I want is to see is some measure of total market return, including current price, dividends, etc. Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one. The next most useful item would be to add to this chart an option for the effects of inflation by some well-accepted measure or some similar way to convert it to real dollars. These simple charts would provide much more value to me than those I find on the web. The informatoin I can find focuses only on current price, though it has a great number of options to add many analyses, but not these analyses. Is there a way to get this information on the freely accessible web or in the brokerage house web sites?

finviz.com
dqydj.com/stock-return-calculator/
simplywall.st

[alex_686]

Fidelity has a "value of theoretical $10k investment" chart, but this chart cannot display results for several investment options simultaneously - only shows the results for one.

Growth of 10k is a regulatory mandated chart. That is why that is there. It is very tightly defined. It is accurate down to the penny.

Anything else becomes problematic, kind off. Those free ones are not accurate down to the penny even if results are to the penny. Change the assumptions a bit and you are going to get slightly different results. I doubt these minor variations would matter to you but they would to tge regulators who oversee the marketing.

My ignorance is showing. I did not know the 10k chart is mandated and defined via regulation. Where can I learn about other similar requirements?

Work in the industry for 10 years?

Alas, I don’t know any good free simple places which organizes this data.

[Doctor Rhythm]

I can’t say anything about most investors, but I suspect many people on this forum don’t scrutinize performance charts. One could just make sure the expense ratio is suitably low and that the fund tracks the benchmark closely.

Everything else is history, which has little value in predicting the future.

[lostcoast2023]

I don't think anything beats TradingView right now. They have a free tier available, and integrate directly with some brokers, like IBKR.

[Silverado]

I can’t say anything about most investors, but I suspect many people on this forum don’t scrutinize performance charts. One could just make sure the expense ratio is suitably low and that the fund tracks the benchmark closely.

Everything else is history, which has little value in predicting the future.

Yeah, I was trying to post something like this, well stated.

OP, what are you wanting to use this type of chart to do?

[PapaB]

OP, what are you wanting to use this type of chart to do?

I am trying to find a chart that has the information most useful to me. To me, that is total return, preferably on a real-dollar basis. I invest almost exclusively in index funds, but not blindly. There are some companies/industries that I do not really want to support (multi-level marketing, alcohol, companies built on more hype than performance (Tesla is an example in my mind), etc.) and others that I believe are in long-term decline (traditional department stores, etc.). I suspect a true-blue boglehead would say it is not smart to exclude any companies based on my enthusiasm for what they do or my imperfect expectation of their future, but it helps me get through downturns and feel better about what I am doing when I fell I am putting money into legitmate companies that add real value (as I see value) rather than just trying to turn a buck. I look for broad-based funds with minor investment in these funds I put on my black (or at least brown) list. The remaining companies/index funds vary greatly in dividend and appreciation rates. I just want a simple total return. I also appreciate seeing it in terms of real dollars. It is quite surprising to many people how much a real-dollar S&P500 long-term return, for example, differs from the nominal return. I would think that real-dollar, total return would be the most basic information most people would want, but it is surprisingly difficult to get that from the ocean of charts and tables available on the web and brokerage houses.

[bertilak]

See StockCharts for a comprehensive source of stock charts.

Back before I became disillusioned with Technical Analysis this is where I went and had a paid subscription. There is plenty available for free. You probably want to look at their "Sharp Charts."

[Doctor Rhythm]

Total (nominal) return is pretty easy to find as long as you don’t want to get super granular, which I think most here would recommend against anyway. It’s posted in a standardized manner on the fund’s webpage in accordance to law. Your personal real return won’t be displayed because it depends on your personal tax rates, inflation, where the fund is held, as well as the fund’s tax efficiency. You can plug some assumptions about those variables into a tool, but you’ll have to contend with two limitations:

1. Garbage in, garbage out
2. History is (mostly) bunk

As I said previously, many people here (myself included) do not know the real or nominal return of our funds or total portfolio other than in very rounded numbers, and don’t use this to make investing decisions. You’re certainly not wrong to want this information, but I question its utility for improving your financial outcomes.

[PapaB]

Total (nominal) return is pretty easy to find as long as you don’t want to get super granular, which I think most here would recommend against anyway. It’s posted in a standardized manner on the fund’s webpage in accordance to law. Your personal real return won’t be displayed because it depends on your personal tax rates, inflation, where the fund is held, as well as the fund’s tax efficiency. You can plug some assumptions about those variables into a tool, but you’ll have to contend with two limitations:

1. Garbage in, garbage out
2. History is (mostly) bunk

As I said previously, many people here (myself included) do not know the real or nominal return of our funds or total portfolio other than in very rounded numbers, and don’t use this to make investing decisions. You’re certainly not wrong to want this information, but I question its utility for improving your financial outcomes.

You are probably correct that returns, especially personal returns, are irrelevant to (future) investment decisions. But (long-term) personal returns do seem like pretty good grades or figures of merit for your past investment decisions. Past stock/etf/fund returns also seem as useful as anything to examine how companies/etf portfolios/funds do during market stresses and growth of various types, and that seems like broadly useful information.