Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
I'm perusing the bond markekplace on IBKR as I'm thinking about building a TIPS ladder directly as opposed to holding 15 years worth of expenses in SCHP as I currently do. I'm trying to learn about it in-case I decide to go ahead and build it myself, and one thing I've come up against already is that IBKR splits the TIPS issuances into two groups, 5/10 years in Notes TIPS, and residual 20 years and new 30 years TIPS in Bond TIPS.
For the purposes of building a TIPS ladder, is there any difference between buying a 20 year TIPS bond expiring in January 2025 vs buying a 10 year TIPS bond expiring in January 2025? I suppose this goes to a more general question about what the best way to build such a ladder would be given 5, 10, and 30 years TIPS are generally the only options available?
For the purposes of building a TIPS ladder, is there any difference between buying a 20 year TIPS bond expiring in January 2025 vs buying a 10 year TIPS bond expiring in January 2025? I suppose this goes to a more general question about what the best way to build such a ladder would be given 5, 10, and 30 years TIPS are generally the only options available?
60% AVGE | 20 Year TIPS LMP | 5% Cash
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Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
Thank you for the link.
60% AVGE | 20 Year TIPS LMP | 5% Cash
Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
Many on the forum here, including myself, have used #Cruncher's excellent TIPS ladder building spreadsheet. I highly recommend it.
Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
My post in the New tool for building a TIPS ladder thread, where kaesler introduces the tool RyeBourbon references, compares both approaches. His is much easier to use. Mine is more flexible.Toadvine wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 8:24 pmMany on the forum here, including myself, have used #Cruncher's ... TIPS ladder building spreadsheet.
The 2-3/8% TIPS maturing 1/15/2025 was originally issued 7/30/2004 with a term of 20-1/2 years. The 0-1/4% TIPS also maturing 1/15/2025 was originally issued 1/30/2015. Besides the higher coupon, the earlier issued one has a larger index ratio, [1] since it reflects inflation over a longer period. There are four similar pairs of TIPS maturing January 15 in 2026, 2027, 2028, and 2029. They all have the same relationship: the 20-year TIPS issued earlier have a larger coupon and a larger index ratio than the more recently issued 10-year TIPS. Here is a table showing the coupons and the index ratios on 5/22/2023: [2]
Code: Select all
Maturity Dated Idx Ratio
Coupon Term Date Date 5/22/23
2.375% 20.5 1/15/2025 7/15/2004 1.59957
2.000% 20 1/15/2026 1/15/2006 1.51914
2.375% 20 1/15/2027 1/15/2007 1.49513
1.750% 20 1/15/2028 1/15/2008 1.43924
2.500% 20 1/15/2029 1/15/2009 1.40436
0.250% 10 1/15/2025 1/15/2015 1.27300
0.625% 10 1/15/2026 1/15/2016 1.26894
0.375% 10 1/15/2027 1/15/2017 1.24820
0.500% 10 1/15/2028 1/15/2018 1.22236
0.875% 10 1/15/2029 1/15/2019 1.19411
Code: Select all
5/22/2023 base date
5/22/2023 quote date Sum--> 6 142 171,435 3,149 177,332 180,480
Matures Coupon Yield CUSIP Mult Nbr Cost Interest Principal Total
1/15/2024 0.625% 3.148% 912828B25 1 23 29,303 869 29,721 30,590
1/15/2025 0.250% 2.299% 912828H45 1 23 28,335 739 29,279 30,018
1/15/2026 0.625% 1.888% 912828N71 1 23 28,301 611 29,186 29,797
1/15/2027 0.375% 1.701% 912828V49 1 24 28,592 464 29,957 30,421
1/15/2028 0.500% 1.579% 9128283R9 1 24 27,976 335 29,337 29,671
1/15/2029 0.875% 1.505% 9128285W6 1 25 28,928 131 29,853 29,983
Code: Select all
5/22/2023 base date
5/22/2023 quote date Sum--> 6 116 171,796 11,176 168,585 179,761
Matures Coupon Yield CUSIP Mult Nbr Cost Interest Principal Total
1/15/2024 0.625% 3.148% 912828B25 1 20 25,481 3,220 25,844 29,064
1/15/2025 2.375% 2.321% 912810FR4 1 17 27,445 2,816 27,193 30,009
1/15/2026 2.000% 1.912% 912810FS2 1 19 29,129 2,204 28,864 31,068
1/15/2027 2.375% 1.727% 912810PS1 1 19 29,292 1,578 28,407 29,986
1/15/2028 1.750% 1.585% 912810PV4 1 20 29,177 989 28,785 29,774
1/15/2029 2.500% 1.545% 912810PZ5 1 21 31,271 369 29,492 29,860
- See the first two paragraphs in the left sidebar of this help page for an explanation of TIPS index ratios.
- Index ratios taken from Index Ratios for May 15 - June 1, 2023.
- Taken from the "ToPaste" sheet of my TIPS Ladder Builder Excel workbook using last Friday's prices from WSJ TIPS Quotes.
- They don't produce exactly $30,000 each year because brokers only sell TIPS on the secondary market in $1,000 face value increments.
- Both cases use the same 10-year 0-5/8% TIPS maturing January 2024 since 20-year TIPS only mature January 2025 - 2029.
Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
Hi #Cruncher, thank you for answering, I enjoy reading your threads on TIPS and helping to demystify buying bonds directly. I've read through the kaesler thread and I've been working through the tool that he created (as another user above recommended) to become familiar with the process.#Cruncher wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 4:43 pmMy post in the New tool for building a TIPS ladder thread, where kaesler introduces the tool RyeBourbon references, compares both approaches. His is much easier to use. Mine is more flexible.Toadvine wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 8:24 pmMany on the forum here, including myself, have used #Cruncher's ... TIPS ladder building spreadsheet.
The 2-3/8% TIPS maturing 1/15/2025 was originally issued 7/30/2004 with a term of 20-1/2 years. The 0-1/4% TIPS also maturing 1/15/2025 was originally issued 1/30/2015. Besides the higher coupon, the earlier issued one has a larger index ratio, [1] since it reflects inflation over a longer period. There are four similar pairs of TIPS maturing January 15 in 2026, 2027, 2028, and 2029. They all have the same relationship: the 20-year TIPS issued earlier have a larger coupon and a larger index ratio than the more recently issued 10-year TIPS. Here is a table showing the coupons and the index ratios on 5/22/2023: [2]The different coupons and index ratios affect the number of bonds needed to produce a ladder generating the same annual interest plus principal proceeds in constant dollars. But this is automatically accounted for if you use either kaesler's or my ladder builders. For example, here are two cases of six-year ladders of TIPS maturing each January 15th from 2024 to 2029. The first case uses five 10-year TIPS maturing 2025 - 2029. [3]Code: Select all
Maturity Dated Idx Ratio Coupon Term Date Date 5/22/23 2.375% 20.5 1/15/2025 7/15/2004 1.59957 2.000% 20 1/15/2026 1/15/2006 1.51914 2.375% 20 1/15/2027 1/15/2007 1.49513 1.750% 20 1/15/2028 1/15/2008 1.43924 2.500% 20 1/15/2029 1/15/2009 1.40436 0.250% 10 1/15/2025 1/15/2015 1.27300 0.625% 10 1/15/2026 1/15/2016 1.26894 0.375% 10 1/15/2027 1/15/2017 1.24820 0.500% 10 1/15/2028 1/15/2018 1.22236 0.875% 10 1/15/2029 1/15/2019 1.19411
And here is the second case that uses 20-year TIPS maturing 2025 - 2029 instead:Code: Select all
5/22/2023 base date 5/22/2023 quote date Sum--> 6 142 171,435 3,149 177,332 180,480 Matures Coupon Yield CUSIP Mult Nbr Cost Interest Principal Total 1/15/2024 0.625% 3.148% 912828B25 1 23 29,303 869 29,721 30,590 1/15/2025 0.250% 2.299% 912828H45 1 23 28,335 739 29,279 30,018 1/15/2026 0.625% 1.888% 912828N71 1 23 28,301 611 29,186 29,797 1/15/2027 0.375% 1.701% 912828V49 1 24 28,592 464 29,957 30,421 1/15/2028 0.500% 1.579% 9128283R9 1 24 27,976 335 29,337 29,671 1/15/2029 0.875% 1.505% 9128285W6 1 25 28,928 131 29,853 29,983
Note that the first case using 10-year TIPS produces about the same [4] 30,000 per year of constant dollars as the second case which uses 20-year TIPS. [5] But the 30,000 is comprised of less interest and more principal than is the case with the 20-year TIPS. Also note that the first case using 10-year TIPS requires a larger number of $1,000 face value bonds. This happens because they have both lower coupons and lower index ratios than their 20-year counterparts.Code: Select all
5/22/2023 base date 5/22/2023 quote date Sum--> 6 116 171,796 11,176 168,585 179,761 Matures Coupon Yield CUSIP Mult Nbr Cost Interest Principal Total 1/15/2024 0.625% 3.148% 912828B25 1 20 25,481 3,220 25,844 29,064 1/15/2025 2.375% 2.321% 912810FR4 1 17 27,445 2,816 27,193 30,009 1/15/2026 2.000% 1.912% 912810FS2 1 19 29,129 2,204 28,864 31,068 1/15/2027 2.375% 1.727% 912810PS1 1 19 29,292 1,578 28,407 29,986 1/15/2028 1.750% 1.585% 912810PV4 1 20 29,177 989 28,785 29,774 1/15/2029 2.500% 1.545% 912810PZ5 1 21 31,271 369 29,492 29,860
In terms of the example you presented, what is the difference between the real return being comprised of more principal vs more interest, is it only a tax consideration, or does it represent a choice on other terms?
You also mention that one option requires buying more individual bonds than another as a distinguishing element, is this because of the fees involved in purchasing individual bonds?
60% AVGE | 20 Year TIPS LMP | 5% Cash
Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
The ladder that uses five 10-year TIPS maturing January 2025-2029 has about the same return (1.75%) as the one that uses five 20-year TIPS (1.76%) maturing on the same dates. [*] You can see the overall returns at the bottom right (cells H25 and H55) of the following two tables that expand on those from my previous post to show the cash flow every six months. First is the table using 10-year low coupon TIPS maturing in 2025-2029. The second table replaces these five with higher coupon 20-year TIPS.
Using five 10-year TIPS Maturing January 2025 - 2029
Code: Select all
----------------------- Bond -----------------------
Row Col A Col B Col C Col D Col E Col F Col G Col H
3 Maturity 1/15/24 1/15/25 1/15/26 1/15/27 1/15/28 1/15/29
4 Coupon 0.625% 0.250% 0.625% 0.375% 0.500% 0.875%
5 Yield 3.148% 2.299% 1.888% 1.701% 1.579% 1.505%
6 Idx Princ 1,292.22 1,273.00 1,268.94 1,248.20 1,222.36 1,194.11 Total
7 Nbr Bonds 23 23 23 24 24 25 142
8 Cost 29,303 28,335 28,301 28,592 27,976 28,928 171,435
Date --------------------- Cash Flow -------------------- Formula in Column B Copied to Column G
Code: Select all
10 5/22/2023 -29,303 -28,335 -28,301 -28,592 -27,976 -28,928 -171,435 =-B8
11 7/15/2023 93 37 91 56 73 131 481 =IF($A11<=B$3,B$6*B$7*(B$4/2),0)+IF($A11=B$3,B$6*B$7,0)
12 1/15/2024 29,814 37 91 56 73 131 30,202 | | |
13 7/15/2024 37 91 56 73 131 388 | | |
14 1/15/2025 29,316 91 56 73 131 29,667 | | |
15 7/15/2025 91 56 73 131 351 | | |
16 1/15/2026 29,277 56 73 131 29,537 | | |
17 7/15/2026 56 73 131 260 | | |
18 1/15/2027 30,013 73 131 30,217 | | |
19 7/15/2027 73 131 204 | | |
20 1/15/2028 29,410 131 29,541 | | |
21 7/15/2028 131 131 v v v
22 1/15/2029 29,983 29,983 =IF($A22<=B$3,B$6*B$7*(B$4/2),0)+IF($A22=B$3,B$6*B$7,0)
Code: Select all
23 2024-2029 29,814 29,389 29,642 30,350 29,997 31,289 180,480 =SUM(B12:B22)
24 Net Cash 604 1,091 1,432 1,814 2,094 2,492 9,526 =SUM(B10:B22)
25 XIRR 3.18% 2.31% 1.89% 1.71% 1.58% 1.51% 1.75% =XIRR(B10:B22,$A10:$A22)
Code: Select all
----------------------- Bond -----------------------
Row Col A Col B Col C Col D Col E Col F Col G Col H
33 Maturity 1/15/24 1/15/25 1/15/26 1/15/27 1/15/28 1/15/29
34 Coupon 0.625% 2.375% 2.000% 2.375% 1.750% 2.500%
35 Yield 3.148% 2.321% 1.912% 1.727% 1.585% 1.545%
36 Idx Princ 1,292.22 1,599.57 1,519.14 1,495.13 1,439.24 1,404.36 Total
37 Nbr Bonds 20 17 19 19 20 21 116
38 Cost 25,481 27,445 29,129 29,292 29,177 31,271 171,796
Date --------------------- Cash Flow -------------------- Formula in Column B Copied to Column G
Code: Select all
40 5/22/2023 -25,481 -27,445 -29,129 -29,292 -29,177 -31,271 -171,796 =-B38
41 7/15/2023 81 323 289 337 252 369 1,650 =IF($A41<=B$33,B$36*B$37*(B$34/2),0)+IF($A41=B$33,B$36*B$37,0)
42 1/15/2024 25,925 323 289 337 252 369 27,495 | | |
43 7/15/2024 323 289 337 252 369 1,569 | | |
44 1/15/2025 27,516 289 337 252 369 28,762 | | |
45 7/15/2025 289 337 252 369 1,246 | | |
46 1/15/2026 29,152 337 252 369 30,110 | | |
47 7/15/2026 337 252 369 958 | | |
48 1/15/2027 28,745 252 369 29,365 | | |
49 7/15/2027 252 369 621 | | |
50 1/15/2028 29,037 369 29,405 | | |
51 7/15/2028 369 369 v v v
52 1/15/2029 29,860 29,860 =IF($A52<=B$33,B$36*B$37*(B$34/2),0)+IF($A52=B$33,B$36*B$37,0)
Code: Select all
53 2024-2029 25,925 28,161 30,307 30,769 31,052 33,547 179,761 =SUM(B42:B52)
54 Net Cash 525 1,040 1,466 1,814 2,126 2,644 9,615 =SUM(B40:B52)
55 XIRR 3.18% 2.32% 1.92% 1.73% 1.59% 1.55% 1.76% =XIRR(B40:B52,$A40:$A52)
Since the five 10-year TIPS have yields higher than their coupons, their purchase will be at a discount. Therefore, their interest income will be higher than just the coupon payments as the amortized discount is added to the coupon payments. On the other hand, since the 20-year TIPS generally have yields lower than their coupons, their purchase will be at a premium. Therefore, their interest income will be lower than just the coupon interest as the amortized premium is subtracted from the coupon payments. The best estimate of interest income is a bond's yield-to-maturity. Since the 10 and 20-year TIPS yields for the same maturity year are about the same, their interest income will be about the same.
No, it's not because of fees or bid/ask spreads in the secondary market. Their lower index ratios are the main reason more bonds are required with the ladder using 10-year TIPS. (Their index ratios are lower since they were issued ten years later than the 20-year bonds and therefore have ten years less of accumulated inflation adjustment.) This means one needs to purchase more $1,000 face value bonds to get the same amount of principal. For example, on 5/22/2023 each $1,000 face value of the 0-1/4% Jan 2026 10-year TIPS has $1,273.00 principal value while the 2-3/8% Jan 2026 20-year TIPS has a $1,599.57 principal value. Therefore one needs 23 of the 10-year ($29,316 = 23 X $1,273.00 + $37 interest) , but only 17 of the 20-year ($27,516 = 17 X $1,599.57 + $323 interest).Phyneas, in same post, wrote:You also mention that one option requires buying more individual bonds than another as a distinguishing element, is this because of the fees involved in purchasing individual bonds?
* I calculate the 1.75% and 1.76% returns with the Excel XIRR function. Edited 3:35 PM to include a row for the 7/15/2023 interest payments. This is needed for XIRR to properly calculate the returns.
Re: Building a TIPS ladder on IBKR (Bonds vs Notes)
Thank you #Cruncher, I've figured out how to buy the TIPS issues on IBKR, and with your help and that of kaesler's tool, I'll finally be able to buy my LMP TIPS ladder. You always put a tonne of effort into your replies, and I'm sure other people have said this, but thank you so much for the contributions you make on here - you've turned something that seemed out of my reach to accomplish into something I could understand and take control of, and I really appreciate it. I'll be taking that SCHP out of my signature now ...#Cruncher wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 11:48 amThe ladder that uses five 10-year TIPS maturing January 2025-2029 has about the same return (1.75%) as the one that uses five 20-year TIPS (1.76%) maturing on the same dates. [*] You can see the overall returns at the bottom right (cells H25 and H55) of the following two tables that expand on those from my previous post to show the cash flow every six months. First is the table using 10-year low coupon TIPS maturing in 2025-2029. The second table replaces these five with higher coupon 20-year TIPS.
Using five 10-year TIPS Maturing January 2025 - 2029Code: Select all
----------------------- Bond ----------------------- Row Col A Col B Col C Col D Col E Col F Col G Col H 3 Maturity 1/15/24 1/15/25 1/15/26 1/15/27 1/15/28 1/15/29 4 Coupon 0.625% 0.250% 0.625% 0.375% 0.500% 0.875% 5 Yield 3.148% 2.299% 1.888% 1.701% 1.579% 1.505% 6 Idx Princ 1,292.22 1,273.00 1,268.94 1,248.20 1,222.36 1,194.11 Total 7 Nbr Bonds 23 23 23 24 24 25 142 8 Cost 29,303 28,335 28,301 28,592 27,976 28,928 171,435 Date --------------------- Cash Flow -------------------- Formula in Column B Copied to Column G
Code: Select all
10 5/22/2023 -29,303 -28,335 -28,301 -28,592 -27,976 -28,928 -171,435 =-B8 11 7/15/2023 93 37 91 56 73 131 481 =IF($A11<=B$3,B$6*B$7*(B$4/2),0)+IF($A11=B$3,B$6*B$7,0) 12 1/15/2024 29,814 37 91 56 73 131 30,202 | | | 13 7/15/2024 37 91 56 73 131 388 | | | 14 1/15/2025 29,316 91 56 73 131 29,667 | | | 15 7/15/2025 91 56 73 131 351 | | | 16 1/15/2026 29,277 56 73 131 29,537 | | | 17 7/15/2026 56 73 131 260 | | | 18 1/15/2027 30,013 73 131 30,217 | | | 19 7/15/2027 73 131 204 | | | 20 1/15/2028 29,410 131 29,541 | | | 21 7/15/2028 131 131 v v v 22 1/15/2029 29,983 29,983 =IF($A22<=B$3,B$6*B$7*(B$4/2),0)+IF($A22=B$3,B$6*B$7,0)
Using five 20-year TIPS Maturing January 2025 - 2029Code: Select all
23 2024-2029 29,814 29,389 29,642 30,350 29,997 31,289 180,480 =SUM(B12:B22) 24 Net Cash 604 1,091 1,432 1,814 2,094 2,492 9,526 =SUM(B10:B22) 25 XIRR 3.18% 2.31% 1.89% 1.71% 1.58% 1.51% 1.75% =XIRR(B10:B22,$A10:$A22)
Code: Select all
----------------------- Bond ----------------------- Row Col A Col B Col C Col D Col E Col F Col G Col H 33 Maturity 1/15/24 1/15/25 1/15/26 1/15/27 1/15/28 1/15/29 34 Coupon 0.625% 2.375% 2.000% 2.375% 1.750% 2.500% 35 Yield 3.148% 2.321% 1.912% 1.727% 1.585% 1.545% 36 Idx Princ 1,292.22 1,599.57 1,519.14 1,495.13 1,439.24 1,404.36 Total 37 Nbr Bonds 20 17 19 19 20 21 116 38 Cost 25,481 27,445 29,129 29,292 29,177 31,271 171,796 Date --------------------- Cash Flow -------------------- Formula in Column B Copied to Column G
Code: Select all
40 5/22/2023 -25,481 -27,445 -29,129 -29,292 -29,177 -31,271 -171,796 =-B38 41 7/15/2023 81 323 289 337 252 369 1,650 =IF($A41<=B$33,B$36*B$37*(B$34/2),0)+IF($A41=B$33,B$36*B$37,0) 42 1/15/2024 25,925 323 289 337 252 369 27,495 | | | 43 7/15/2024 323 289 337 252 369 1,569 | | | 44 1/15/2025 27,516 289 337 252 369 28,762 | | | 45 7/15/2025 289 337 252 369 1,246 | | | 46 1/15/2026 29,152 337 252 369 30,110 | | | 47 7/15/2026 337 252 369 958 | | | 48 1/15/2027 28,745 252 369 29,365 | | | 49 7/15/2027 252 369 621 | | | 50 1/15/2028 29,037 369 29,405 | | | 51 7/15/2028 369 369 v v v 52 1/15/2029 29,860 29,860 =IF($A52<=B$33,B$36*B$37*(B$34/2),0)+IF($A52=B$33,B$36*B$37,0)
Tax treatment is pretty much the same for both ladders. If they are held in a tax deferred retirement account, it makes no difference how much of the proceeds are interest payments. Tax is computed on the total withdrawal and the amount of interest income is irrelevant. If the ladder is held in a taxable account, the tax will be based in part on the amount of interest income. But this includes more than just the actual coupon interest payments. Interest income on a bond also includes the amortization of any purchase price discount (additional income) or purchase price premium (reduction of income).Code: Select all
53 2024-2029 25,925 28,161 30,307 30,769 31,052 33,547 179,761 =SUM(B42:B52) 54 Net Cash 525 1,040 1,466 1,814 2,126 2,644 9,615 =SUM(B40:B52) 55 XIRR 3.18% 2.32% 1.92% 1.73% 1.59% 1.55% 1.76% =XIRR(B40:B52,$A40:$A52)
Since the five 10-year TIPS have yields higher than their coupons, their purchase will be at a discount. Therefore, their interest income will be higher than just the coupon payments as the amortized discount is added to the coupon payments. On the other hand, since the 20-year TIPS generally have yields lower than their coupons, their purchase will be at a premium. Therefore, their interest income will be lower than just the coupon interest as the amortized premium is subtracted from the coupon payments. The best estimate of interest income is a bond's yield-to-maturity. Since the 10 and 20-year TIPS yields for the same maturity year are about the same, their interest income will be about the same.
No, it's not because of fees or bid/ask spreads in the secondary market. Their lower index ratios are the main reason more bonds are required with the ladder using 10-year TIPS. (Their index ratios are lower since they were issued ten years later than the 20-year bonds and therefore have ten years less of accumulated inflation adjustment.) This means one needs to purchase more $1,000 face value bonds to get the same amount of principal. For example, on 5/22/2023 each $1,000 face value of the 0-1/4% Jan 2026 10-year TIPS has $1,273.00 principal value while the 2-3/8% Jan 2026 20-year TIPS has a $1,599.57 principal value. Therefore one needs 23 of the 10-year ($29,316 = 23 X $1,273.00 + $37 interest) , but only 17 of the 20-year ($27,516 = 17 X $1,599.57 + $323 interest).Phyneas, in same post, wrote:You also mention that one option requires buying more individual bonds than another as a distinguishing element, is this because of the fees involved in purchasing individual bonds?
* I calculate the 1.75% and 1.76% returns with the Excel XIRR function. Edited 3:35 PM to include a row for the 7/15/2023 interest payments. This is needed for XIRR to properly calculate the returns.

60% AVGE | 20 Year TIPS LMP | 5% Cash