dbr wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 am
One thing that might not be obvious to all regarding gear speeds is that typical bikes with an 11 speed cassette (rear wheel cogs) and two chain rings (front cogs) technically have 22 speeds, but those gear ratios overlap. The combination is for convenience in selecting how to ride at a moment and so that intermediate adjustments are easy to find. I would probably not say that this is truly a 22-speed bike.
The real issue is what is the range from highest to lowest and how far apart are the adjustments in between.
What do you mean when you say that gears on a 22 speed bike overlap? Are you saying some of the 22 gears are the exact same?
Yes, at least nearly so.
For example I have an older bike with three chain rings and a 9 speed cassette, but the actual ratios in gear inches are
dbr wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 am
One thing that might not be obvious to all regarding gear speeds is that typical bikes with an 11 speed cassette (rear wheel cogs) and two chain rings (front cogs) technically have 22 speeds, but those gear ratios overlap. The combination is for convenience in selecting how to ride at a moment and so that intermediate adjustments are easy to find. I would probably not say that this is truly a 22-speed bike.
The real issue is what is the range from highest to lowest and how far apart are the adjustments in between.
What do you mean when you say that gears on a 22 speed bike overlap? Are you saying some of the 22 gears are the exact same?
Yes, at least nearly so.
It is true that the gears are more widely spaced on an 11 speed than they are on a 22 speed. But by adding the second ring in front that doesn’t cause the new 11 speeds to overlap the old 11. It simply adds more stops from lowest to highest gear.
The rear cassette on a properly built 11 speed is always going to have larger rings than the cassette on a 22 speed bike to create a useful range of gears despite there being bigger steps between gears than on a bike equipped with a front derailleur. On neither bike will the gears overlap.
dbr wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 am
One thing that might not be obvious to all regarding gear speeds is that typical bikes with an 11 speed cassette (rear wheel cogs) and two chain rings (front cogs) technically have 22 speeds, but those gear ratios overlap. The combination is for convenience in selecting how to ride at a moment and so that intermediate adjustments are easy to find. I would probably not say that this is truly a 22-speed bike.
The real issue is what is the range from highest to lowest and how far apart are the adjustments in between.
What do you mean when you say that gears on a 22 speed bike overlap? Are you saying some of the 22 gears are the exact same?
Yes, at least nearly so.
It is true that the gears are more widely spaced on an 11 speed than they are on a 22 speed. But by adding the second ring in front that doesn’t cause the new 11 speeds to overlap the old 11. It simply adds more stops from lowest to highest gear.
The rear cassette on a properly built 11 speed is always going to have larger rings than the cassette on a 22 speed bike to create a useful range of gears despite there being bigger steps between gears than on a bike equipped with a front derailleur. On either bike will the gears overlap.
For example I have an older bike with three chain rings and a 9 speed cassette, but the actual ratios in gear inches are
dbr wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 am
One thing that might not be obvious to all regarding gear speeds is that typical bikes with an 11 speed cassette (rear wheel cogs) and two chain rings (front cogs) technically have 22 speeds, but those gear ratios overlap. The combination is for convenience in selecting how to ride at a moment and so that intermediate adjustments are easy to find. I would probably not say that this is truly a 22-speed bike.
The real issue is what is the range from highest to lowest and how far apart are the adjustments in between.
I think this is a fairly advanced concern. My modern 2x11 drivetrain has one overlapping gear. I think that the industry's current infatuation with 1x drivetrains does ok with the range, but you lose a whole lot of the incremental gears.
onourway wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:55 am
Getting back on a bike is a great way to stay in shape. Bike technology has changed quite a lot in just the past decade, so don't get too stuck on what you had in the past.
I will say that unless you are currently fairly fit and flexible, going straight to a drop bar bicycle is going to be a challenge for most people. While current gravel/endurance designs are much more comfortable than the 10 speeds you remember, they still require a fairly forward, athletic position.
I would go to a shop that has a wide variety of bikes and that will let you ride them for 10 minutes or more each. I would try a variety of flat-handlebar models ('hybrids' or 'flat-bar gravel bikes') as well as a gravel/endurance road style (like the Domane posted above) and see what you think.
The shop should be willing to do a limited 'fit' with you which will likely include changing the stem length and/or height, dialing in saddle height, and possibly changing the saddle. Don't forget to budget for associated gear - good padded shorts, a helmet, lights, tools, etc.
This is very good advise. I am still in the hybrid bike phase, yet to graduate to road bike.
Any recommendations on padded shorts? I use "sponeed" from amazon and .... it kinda hurts my behind
This is very good advise. I am still in the hybrid bike phase, yet to graduate to road bike.
Any recommendations on padded shorts? I use "sponeed" from amazon and .... it kinda hurts my behind
One suggestion is bibs rather than shorts so one is not so confined around the waist.
I would not have a guess why shorts would result in pain but it is true that putting in miles on a bike does involve some conditioning of the parts.
We have a local bike shop that specializes in taking quality older bikes and refurbishing them into great working condition. If you want an older bike,it's a great option.
Gravel bikes are indeed very versatile and getting popular for good reason.
For a specific, good-value recommendation, check out the Surly Preamble, which should be around 1000. If you want something even cheaper than that, Walmart has a bike called Mongoose Grit that could be a starting point.
dbr wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 8:02 am
One thing that might not be obvious to all regarding gear speeds is that typical bikes with an 11 speed cassette (rear wheel cogs) and two chain rings (front cogs) technically have 22 speeds, but those gear ratios overlap. The combination is for convenience in selecting how to ride at a moment and so that intermediate adjustments are easy to find. I would probably not say that this is truly a 22-speed bike.
The real issue is what is the range from highest to lowest and how far apart are the adjustments in between.
I think this is a fairly advanced concern. My modern 2x11 drivetrain has one overlapping gear. I think that the industry's current infatuation with 1x drivetrains does ok with the range, but you lose a whole lot of the incremental gears.
It is true that a more modern compact crank and a wider cassette might well have much less overlap than a narrower cassette and an old style set of three chain rings. I actually modified my cassette with bigger low cogs and pretty much avoid riding on my smaller chain ring. In effect I have an 18 speed bike which would be realized these days as a 22 speed.
Wannaretireearly wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:13 pm
I got a giant contend AR for around $1500 from my lbs.
Giant Contend is the right answer if you want new. It has endurance geometry (more relaxed than "racier" road bikes) that folks have advised you to pay attention to. You can also pay a few hundred more if you like the "cooler" (I do not subscribe to the groupthink here, I think Giant is great) brands which will have something highly similar (Specialized, Trek, BMC, etc.). The Contend even has reasonably skinny tubes to not offend your nostalgia.
Unfortunately, bike prices took a wild jump during the pandemic and, while they seem to be leveling off, have not come down. There is talk starting of a supply glut though, so you might be able to find a deal at a local shop. The current Contend model with 105 (11 speed) is $1950 -- this level has been recommended to you but is twice(!) your budget. The Sora (9 speed) would be a great choice ($1350) but please see my note below.
Here is info that might be important to you: Shimano is replacing every groupset level lower than 105 with CUES (probably model year 2025). There will be no more Tiagra, Sora, or Claris. While you still should be able to source parts for a long while, if I were making a long-term major purchase, this is something I would wait for.
In summary, if I were you I would:
1. Just get the 105 Contend, or equivalent, (if the difference (~600) is negligible with respect to your financial goals) because bikes are great and if getting something nice (and the 105 is very nice!) will encourage you to get out more it will likely be a net positive in your life. If you stick with it, the 105 is probably the level you will wish you had bought.
2. Buy something used cheap (couple hundred) to see if you stick with it then buy 105 Contend.
3. Wait for Shimano CUES to drop and purchase whatever Contend is around $1000 (the CUES groupsets will be the same design just different drivetrain speeds 9, 10, or 11)
4. Buy Sora Contend
Happy riding!
This is a great post for the OP!
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onourway wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:55 am
Getting back on a bike is a great way to stay in shape. Bike technology has changed quite a lot in just the past decade, so don't get too stuck on what you had in the past.
I will say that unless you are currently fairly fit and flexible, going straight to a drop bar bicycle is going to be a challenge for most people. While current gravel/endurance designs are much more comfortable than the 10 speeds you remember, they still require a fairly forward, athletic position.
I would go to a shop that has a wide variety of bikes and that will let you ride them for 10 minutes or more each. I would try a variety of flat-handlebar models ('hybrids' or 'flat-bar gravel bikes') as well as a gravel/endurance road style (like the Domane posted above) and see what you think.
The shop should be willing to do a limited 'fit' with you which will likely include changing the stem length and/or height, dialing in saddle height, and possibly changing the saddle. Don't forget to budget for associated gear - good padded shorts, a helmet, lights, tools, etc.
This is very good advise. I am still in the hybrid bike phase, yet to graduate to road bike.
Any recommendations on padded shorts? I use "sponeed" from amazon and .... it kinda hurts my behind
If you are getting chaffing, some type of chamois cream does wonders (particularly long rides) - I use one made by Assos when needed.
Often if you behind hurts, it is likely the saddle needs to be reconfigured to properly support your sit bones. I am a bid fan of the seats from Bisaddle, where you can experiment with different saddle styles and widths to dial it into what works before you spend $ on a more expensive saddle - IMO, usually it is going down to a smaller saddle with less padding that does wonders than a bulkier one with more padding
This is very good advise. I am still in the hybrid bike phase, yet to graduate to road bike.
Any recommendations on padded shorts? I use "sponeed" from amazon and .... it kinda hurts my behind
One suggestion is bibs rather than shorts so one is not so confined around the waist.
I would not have a guess why shorts would result in pain but it is true that putting in miles on a bike does involve some conditioning of the parts.
Ditto the recommendation on bibs. I have several pair of shorts from https://aerotechdesigns.com/, I bought some shorts until I found a pad I liked, then I bought the bib versions. I use the shorts for my weekly rides, and the bibs for my longer Saturday ride.
It will take a while to break "your" seat in, so recommend getting some weeks or months in before changing anything, other than getting a modest pair of shorts from day one. What you find comfortable at the first week and the eighth week will probably be different.
(Bought a new seat last and upped my mileage, and struggled with a knot in my sit muscles all last year, I was still half convinced it was the seat despite all advice to the contrary. Spent all winter doing stretches for that area, now "my" seat is comfortable again)
The 1x vs. 2x drive train discussion is largely academic. I currently have two bikes with 1x setups and three with 2x setups. I've owned three others with 3x in the past. Yes, the gaps between gears are bigger with a 1x but I have never missed them. Moving forward, I'm sticking with 1x's for their simplicity. Granted, I no longer care about maximizing speed and I'm not riding cross-country, so YMMV. I don't think the average rider will miss out by having a 1x setup and it's going to be easier to use and maintain for someone new to cycling.
I just bought a Specialized Roil3 Low Entry, to replace an aging 1995 Cannondale H300 hybrid.
Bike store guy had recommended Trek low entry version to me, and I liked the basic idea.
I liked a couple things Specialized vs. Trek, 8-speed simplicity, 650 vs. 700 tires.
The Specialized fat tires are still pretty "fast" because the rubber bead that hits the road is somewhat narrower.
Mostly a crap shoot, I did not even find one to try out first, but I like it.
Unfort, since a lot of bikes are not sold on Amazon, it is hard to see a lot of good user feedback before buying.
Here in Northern Va, I donated the old Cannondale to Phoenix Bikes which is a cool place that recycles old bikes by teaching young folks how to fix them. But they want decent brands like Cannondale is fine.
If you like the road bike setup, I definitely recommend you look into the "endurance bike" category. It's a road bike with a taller front end so it's a more relaxed, less aggressive position.
Trek Domane is one such bike, I'm sure other brands have similar. The Trek comes in aluminum which would be closer to your price point. I just bought an unused bike from someone who got one but never used it for $1000 on Facebook marketplace.
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onourway wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:55 am
Getting back on a bike is a great way to stay in shape. Bike technology has changed quite a lot in just the past decade, so don't get too stuck on what you had in the past.
I will say that unless you are currently fairly fit and flexible, going straight to a drop bar bicycle is going to be a challenge for most people. While current gravel/endurance designs are much more comfortable than the 10 speeds you remember, they still require a fairly forward, athletic position.
I would go to a shop that has a wide variety of bikes and that will let you ride them for 10 minutes or more each. I would try a variety of flat-handlebar models ('hybrids' or 'flat-bar gravel bikes') as well as a gravel/endurance road style (like the Domane posted above) and see what you think.
The shop should be willing to do a limited 'fit' with you which will likely include changing the stem length and/or height, dialing in saddle height, and possibly changing the saddle. Don't forget to budget for associated gear - good padded shorts, a helmet, lights, tools, etc.
This is very good advise. I am still in the hybrid bike phase, yet to graduate to road bike.
Any recommendations on padded shorts? I use "sponeed" from amazon and .... it kinda hurts my behind
If you are getting chaffing, some type of chamois cream does wonders (particularly long rides) - I use one made by Assos when needed.
Often if you behind hurts, it is likely the saddle needs to be reconfigured to properly support your sit bones. I am a bid fan of the seats from Bisaddle, where you can experiment with different saddle styles and widths to dial it into what works before you spend $ on a more expensive saddle - IMO, usually it is going down to a smaller saddle with less padding that does wonders than a bulkier one with more padding
Jeez over $200 for a saddle!?
I have an expensive bike but that is a lot of $$ for a saddle.
Your initial post seemed to steer the discussion to road bikes.
Based on the information you have provided, I suggest you consider a Hybrid such as the Giant Escape 2. All the recommended manufactures should have a Hybrid or two or three. Price points generally start under 1k.
Here are some reasons I feel you should consider Hybrid
Trigger Shift (not down tube like old road designs)
More comfortable (even compared to endurance road designs)
Your likely rides (paved, not long or competitive)
More versatile in surfaces (fine for some road, sidewalk, groomed trail)
Hybrid will require less care in general than a road which have trickle down features for high end road bikes
Here in Northern Va, I donated the old Cannondale to Phoenix Bikes which is a cool place that recycles old bikes by teaching young folks how to fix them. But they want decent brands like Cannondale is fine.
That is very cool, good for you!
TheOscarGuy wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 11:52 am
Jeez over $200 for a saddle!?
I have an expensive bike but that is a lot of $$ for a saddle.
You don't even want to know what the saddle on my road bike cost.. If curious, look up Selle SMP. It will be pried from my hands when I can no longer cycle.
Here in Northern Va, I donated the old Cannondale to Phoenix Bikes which is a cool place that recycles old bikes by teaching young folks how to fix them. But they want decent brands like Cannondale is fine.
That is very cool, good for you!
TheOscarGuy wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 11:52 am
Jeez over $200 for a saddle!?
I have an expensive bike but that is a lot of $$ for a saddle.
You don't even want to know what the saddle on my road bike cost.. If curious, look up Selle SMP. It will be pried from my hands when I can no longer cycle.
I need to learn a lot about saddles, I am guessing
Come to think of it my trek FX sport carbon 4 with carbon wheels cost ~$2500. Saddle isn't that expensive, and more on top of it, if it is going to make me more comfortable. The problem I see is I can not try these things out to make sure they actually do what I am looking for (comfort over 20+ miles of ride).
