Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

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Zso
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Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

Hi
I have my 401k plan presently with Vanguard, in addition I have brokerage account as well. All are self managed.

Vanguard 401k $850k
Vanguard brokerage, about 15k in VBTLX and 100k in VTSAX

My wife has her 403b with TIAA. About 420k

We have been thinking about consolidating everything into TIAA. Since we have met with their advisor.
He has been very straightforward and suggested that he can manage the TIAA account but not Vanguard. In order to manage everything. I would have to transfer my 401k plan to a TIAA IRA account.

I am tired of managing which I not too good at!
So the question is should I do it? Any help would be appreciated.

ZSO
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retired@50
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by retired@50 »

Zso wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:19 pm
We have been thinking about consolidating everything into TIAA. Since we have met with their advisor.
He has been very straightforward and suggested that he can manage the TIAA account but not Vanguard. In order to manage everything. I would have to transfer my 401k plan to a TIAA IRA account.

I am tired of managing which I not too good at!
So the question is should I do it? Any help would be appreciated.

ZSO
What will you have to pay the adviser?

A flat fee, an assets under management fee, something else?

The amount you pay for advice can have a big impact on your retirement.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
Topic Author
Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

What will you have to pay the adviser?

A flat fee, an assets under management fee, something else?

The amount you pay for advice can have a big impact on your retirement.

Regards,
He had stated .38% on average.

FYI
I am tired and the Missus will be in 9 months

[Quotation formatting fixed by moderator ClaycordJCA.]
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by retired@50 »

Zso wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm He had stated .38% on average.

FYI
I am tired and the Missus will be in 9 months
I'm a bit confused by the "on average" remark.

If that 0.38% is an AUM fee, that amounts to over $5,200 per year if he's managing all of the amounts mentioned above.

OR, is that simply the average expense ratio of the mutual fund investments he intends to use?

I'll reiterate. Knowing exactly what you're paying for, and exactly how much it's going to cost are important aspects of hiring any advisor.

See this (linked) article by Jason Zweig of the Wall Street Journal for the 19 questions to ask your financial adviser.

Also, see the wiki page on investment advisers.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_adviser

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
Topic Author
Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

I believe it the AUM. But not sure. I will have ask.
Thank you for the info.
Dregob
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Dregob »

I met with TIAA and obviously your mileage may vary but I was not impressed. I received a plan which seemed to be driven by they need to recommend change or what is the point. When asked to explain why I needed 6 funds or more the rep could not really give a coherent answer.
At this forum the free advice will be DIY a 3 fund portfolio with an AA ranging mostly from 40/60 to 70/30.
For what it is worth I transferred everything but my TIAA traditional to Vanguard.
Topic Author
Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

retired@50 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:23 pm
Zso wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm He had stated .38% on average.

FYI
I am tired and the Missus will be in 9 months
I'm a bit confused by the "on average" remark.

If that 0.38% is an AUM fee, that amounts to over $5,200 per year if he's managing all of the amounts mentioned above.

OR, is that simply the average expense ratio of the mutual fund investments he intends to use?

I'll reiterate. Knowing exactly what you're paying for, and exactly how much it's going to cost are important aspects of hiring any advisor.

See this (linked) article by Jason Zweig of the Wall Street Journal for the 19 questions to ask your financial adviser.

Also, see the wiki page on investment advisers.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_adviser

Regards,
The .38% is the expense fee for the average of all funds. There is no AUM fee.
I understand that Vanguard has the lowest fees. However I am inclined to put everything in TIAA. Just because it’s will be managed by TIAA.
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by retired@50 »

Zso wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am
retired@50 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:23 pm
Zso wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:01 pm He had stated .38% on average.

FYI
I am tired and the Missus will be in 9 months
I'm a bit confused by the "on average" remark.

If that 0.38% is an AUM fee, that amounts to over $5,200 per year if he's managing all of the amounts mentioned above.

OR, is that simply the average expense ratio of the mutual fund investments he intends to use?

I'll reiterate. Knowing exactly what you're paying for, and exactly how much it's going to cost are important aspects of hiring any advisor.

See this (linked) article by Jason Zweig of the Wall Street Journal for the 19 questions to ask your financial adviser.

Also, see the wiki page on investment advisers.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_adviser

Regards,
The .38% is the expense fee for the average of all funds. There is no AUM fee.
I understand that Vanguard has the lowest fees. However I am inclined to put everything in TIAA. Just because it’s will be managed by TIAA.
If the 0.38% goes to the fund as an expense ratio, then that leaves me wondering how the adviser gets paid?

Nobody works for free. It seems like there may be more to this story.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
little_star
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by little_star »

Dregob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:28 pm I met with TIAA and obviously your mileage may vary but I was not impressed. I received a plan which seemed to be driven by they need to recommend change or what is the point. When asked to explain why I needed 6 funds or more the rep could not really give a coherent answer.
At this forum the free advice will be DIY a 3 fund portfolio with an AA ranging mostly from 40/60 to 70/30.
For what it is worth I transferred everything but my TIAA traditional to Vanguard.
I will provide a second negative anecdotal experience with TIAA advisors. I used the "free" (paid for by my University's contract with TIAA) advising service once. They ran a Monte Carlo simulation. They said that my current allocations (TIAA traditional and several CREF funds) had a 99% success probability. However, they recommended that I change to a portfolio (consisting of about 15 different funds) that had a 98% success probability. I made no change (since 99% is better than 98%!). I tracked both portfolios for a while and I am very glad that I did not do as they recommended. Not only was the slice-and-dice portfolio a higher expense ratio over all, the recommended funds did very poorly relative to the CREF funds I was already invested in.

If you are willing to pay for an advisor (which is sounds like you are, simply based on the higher ERs you will be charged by TIAA), then I recommend that you look into Vanguard's PAS. They charge 0.30 AUM, which should be about equivalent to the higher ERs of TIAA. You know what you are likely to get from VPAS: total stock index, total international stock index, total bond index, and (possibly) total international bond.

Even cheaper: use a target date or lifecycle fund at Vanguard. Slightly higher ER than the individual funds, but cheaper than paying an advisor.
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by student »

little_star wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:55 am
Dregob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:28 pm I met with TIAA and obviously your mileage may vary but I was not impressed. I received a plan which seemed to be driven by they need to recommend change or what is the point. When asked to explain why I needed 6 funds or more the rep could not really give a coherent answer.
At this forum the free advice will be DIY a 3 fund portfolio with an AA ranging mostly from 40/60 to 70/30.
For what it is worth I transferred everything but my TIAA traditional to Vanguard.
I will provide a second negative anecdotal experience with TIAA advisors. I used the "free" (paid for by my University's contract with TIAA) advising service once. They ran a Monte Carlo simulation. They said that my current allocations (TIAA traditional and several CREF funds) had a 99% success probability. However, they recommended that I change to a portfolio (consisting of about 15 different funds) that had a 98% success probability. I made no change (since 99% is better than 98%!). I tracked both portfolios for a while and I am very glad that I did not do as they recommended. Not only was the slice-and-dice portfolio a higher expense ratio over all, the recommended funds did very poorly relative to the CREF funds I was already invested in.

If you are willing to pay for an advisor (which is sounds like you are, simply based on the higher ERs you will be charged by TIAA), then I recommend that you look into Vanguard's PAS. They charge 0.30 AUM, which should be about equivalent to the higher ERs of TIAA. You know what you are likely to get from VPAS: total stock index, total international stock index, total bond index, and (possibly) total international bond.

Even cheaper: use a target date or lifecycle fund at Vanguard. Slightly higher ER than the individual funds, but cheaper than paying an advisor.
This reminds of the first time I talked to a TIAA advisor (free) in the last millennium. There wasn't even a Monte Carlo simulation at that time, the advisor just used an estimated percentage of return, an estimated inflation rate, etc. I remember I said to myself, I don't need this, I know who to apply the geometric sum. However, they are excellent sources if you have TIAA questions, as the rules may be complicated.

OP: Overall, if you want simplification, TIAA is a fine place to be especially if you want TIAA Traditional. Given the ER, I assume they are for the annuity version. Check to see whether you have access to institutional class mutual funds as their ER are comparable to the corresponding Vanguard funds. Personally, I would not consolidate and will use TIAA for TIAA Traditional. Of course, take in account whether you have the liquid or illiquid version.
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by placeholder »

Why do you need an adviser?
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by crefwatch »

Zso, there are many complex issues involved. One that has not come up is whether an IRA (that you would have to roll over to [?]) has different lawsuit or marital protections than a 401(k). Another is whether you "like" the 401(k)'s prices and options. If you learn more about investing, you may find the options and Expense Ratios you have at Vanguard are much better. (Not sure, of course.)

It is much easier to find customers that dislike TIAA than those who dislike Vanguard. OTOH, Vanguard's technology is so much better that they accomplish something like 97% of their customer interactions fully online. TIAA can only dream of that right now. But you "sound" like you want someone to hold your hand. (Sorry if that sounds condescending, but it's a common phrase on this topic!)

I happen to be consolidated at TIAA, but I no longer recommend that people seek a relationship with TIAA if they have other options. I manage our own accounts, I don't pay TIAA a management fee. As others noted, your understanding of the proposal from TIAA sounds incomplete. You need to understand better. Do you know anyone at work who can recommend a one-time, fee-only advisor for a single session with your family?
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

Zso wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am The .38% is the expense fee for the average of all funds. There is no AUM fee.
I understand that Vanguard has the lowest fees. However I am inclined to put everything in TIAA. Just because it’s will be managed by TIAA.
I'm not aware of TIAA providing management for only the cost of fund expense ratios. They used to provide a dedicated advisor who would come up with a specific plan, even incorporating non-TIAA investments, but eliminated that service for my account at least. It could be based on assets in the account and mine might not be sufficient, although I have transferred additional funds into TIAA (from Vanguard) since then. But even then TIAA would not implement the plan without an additional fee.

If TIAA provided a specific plan you should post that.
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Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am Zso, there are many complex issues involved. One that has not come up is whether an IRA (that you would have to roll over to [?]) has different lawsuit or marital protections than a 401(k). Another is whether you "like" the 401(k)'s prices and options. If you learn more about investing, you may find the options and Expense Ratios you have at Vanguard are much better. (Not sure, of course.)

It is much easier to find customers that dislike TIAA than those who dislike Vanguard. OTOH, Vanguard's technology is so much better that they accomplish something like 97% of their customer interactions fully online. TIAA can only dream of that right now. But you "sound" like you want someone to hold your hand. (Sorry if that sounds condescending, but it's a common phrase on this topic!)

I happen to be consolidated at TIAA, but I no longer recommend that people seek a relationship with TIAA if they have other options. I manage our own accounts, I don't pay TIAA a management fee. As others noted, your understanding of the proposal from TIAA sounds incomplete. You need to understand better. Do you know anyone at work who can recommend a one-time, fee-only advisor for a single session with your family?
Thank you for the information.
I am retired. The Missus has 9 months to retirement. The TIAA advisor was recommended to us by my wife's coworker. I've been managing the TIAA 403 and my Vanguard 401 plan for years. My limited knowledge come from reading the Booglehead books and through this forum. I am 70 and wish to "someone to hold my hand". Over preretirement years i have also consulted with various advisor. I never accepted any of their proposals. The worst was that i paid one $500 for their review and they proposed an annuity.

So I am a big fan of Vanguard. The TIAA advisor reviewed both investment and basically concluded that my current investment strategy has a 18% probability of success to age 95, I am managing only 3 funds per portfolio. His recommendation was 82% probability of success, basically diversifying the portfilios.

So I got interested. In addition, i have been reading here that TIAA has some very good funds which i did not know about, the TIAA traditional, Variable Annuity, and the TIAA restate fund which are not available anywhere else. He get paid by TIAA and the only cost is a .38% fund expense fee. I also believe the advisors get a yearly bonus.

What I am seeing is. That TIAA is well received in the industry, but maybe not as good to Vanguard.
If I go with TIAA am I making a big mistake?
tibbitts
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:51 am
crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am Zso, there are many complex issues involved. One that has not come up is whether an IRA (that you would have to roll over to [?]) has different lawsuit or marital protections than a 401(k). Another is whether you "like" the 401(k)'s prices and options. If you learn more about investing, you may find the options and Expense Ratios you have at Vanguard are much better. (Not sure, of course.)

It is much easier to find customers that dislike TIAA than those who dislike Vanguard. OTOH, Vanguard's technology is so much better that they accomplish something like 97% of their customer interactions fully online. TIAA can only dream of that right now. But you "sound" like you want someone to hold your hand. (Sorry if that sounds condescending, but it's a common phrase on this topic!)

I happen to be consolidated at TIAA, but I no longer recommend that people seek a relationship with TIAA if they have other options. I manage our own accounts, I don't pay TIAA a management fee. As others noted, your understanding of the proposal from TIAA sounds incomplete. You need to understand better. Do you know anyone at work who can recommend a one-time, fee-only advisor for a single session with your family?
Thank you for the information.
I am retired. The Missus has 9 months to retirement. The TIAA advisor was recommended to us by my wife's coworker. I've been managing the TIAA 403 and my Vanguard 401 plan for years. My limited knowledge come from reading the Booglehead books and through this forum. I am 70 and wish to "someone to hold my hand". Over preretirement years i have also consulted with various advisor. I never accepted any of their proposals. The worst was that i paid one $500 for their review and they proposed an annuity.

So I am a big fan of Vanguard. The TIAA advisor reviewed both investment and basically concluded that my current investment strategy has a 18% probability of success to age 95, I am managing only 3 funds per portfolio. His recommendation was 82% probability of success, basically diversifying the portfilios.

So I got interested. In addition, i have been reading here that TIAA has some very good funds which i did not know about, the TIAA traditional, Variable Annuity, and the TIAA restate fund which are not available anywhere else. He get paid by TIAA and the only cost is a .38% fund expense fee. I also believe the advisors get a yearly bonus.

What I am seeing is. That TIAA is well received in the industry, but maybe not as good to Vanguard.
If I go with TIAA am I making a big mistake?
Maybe a mistake; probably not a huge mistake.

I recommended TIAA to co-workers too, and when it was still available even recommended consulting their advisors for free. And I still do recommend TIAA for Traditional at least. But not for management, because that's never been available to anyone I know for "free"; there was always a cost on top of the fund expense ratios (which weren't nearly the lowest either.) I'm highly suspicious that it won't be for you either. A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.

You seem to be under the impression that more funds will improve your portfolio, and I believe almost everyone here will take issue with that. I won't because people in 30-ish fund glass houses shouldn't throw stones. More funds does not equate to more diversification.
Topic Author
Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am
A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am
crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am
A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
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Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:49 am
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am
crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am
A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
Basically
Target Ret 2025 Tr Sel $443K
Instl 500 Index Trust $264K
Inst Tot Bd Mkt Ix Tr 163K
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:59 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:49 am
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am
crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am
A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
Basically
Target Ret 2025 Tr Sel $443K
Instl 500 Index Trust $264K
Inst Tot Bd Mkt Ix Tr 163K
Just guessing that looks like maybe 50% equities 50% bonds with a little international thrown in. That doesn't seem like a wild departure from what any advisor would likely recommend, so I still don't see being able to get a huge improvement in success probability.

Of course at TIAA (or elsewhere, but more likely at TIAA) you could annuitize and then know what you'd have to spend (in nominal dollars, at least) but that's apparently not the immediate consideration here.
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by student »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:17 pm
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:59 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:49 am
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am
crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am
A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
Basically
Target Ret 2025 Tr Sel $443K
Instl 500 Index Trust $264K
Inst Tot Bd Mkt Ix Tr 163K
Just guessing that looks like maybe 50% equities 50% bonds with a little international thrown in. That doesn't seem like a wild departure from what any advisor would likely recommend, so I still don't see being able to get a huge improvement in success probability.

Of course at TIAA (or elsewhere, but more likely at TIAA) you could annuitize and then know what you'd have to spend (in nominal dollars, at least) but that's apparently not the immediate consideration here.
Me too. 18% to 82% chance of success? Any chance of mishearing? Eighty instead of eighteen or transposed two digits when the advisor typed the answer?
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

student wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:53 pm Me too. 18% to 82% chance of success? Any chance of mishearing? Eighty instead of eighteen or transposed two digits when the advisor typed the answer?
I could see 81% vs. 82%, but for me that would be statistically insignificant and not a practical benefit. But if I had low-80 percentages of not running out of money, I'd be making some other adjustments to improve my odds, unless this is entirely discretionary money - in which case I'd probably invest it more aggressively.
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by retired@50 »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:59 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:49 am
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am
crefwatch wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:26 am
A few hours ago you were talking about 98% and 99%; now you're talking about 18% and 82%. That doesn't make sense either.
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
Basically
Target Ret 2025 Tr Sel $443K
Instl 500 Index Trust $264K
Inst Tot Bd Mkt Ix Tr 163K
I don't know if you're interested, but you can use the Vanguard website's Retirement Nest Egg Calculator to run your own simulations.

All you need to do is set a few basic parameters like stock/bond mix, and spending. It's easy and may prove to be educational.

See link: https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VG ... ggCalc.jsf

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
student
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by student »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:03 pm
student wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:53 pm Me too. 18% to 82% chance of success? Any chance of mishearing? Eighty instead of eighteen or transposed two digits when the advisor typed the answer?
I could see 81% vs. 82%, but for me that would be statistically insignificant and not a practical benefit. But if I had low-80 percentages of not running out of money, I'd be making some other adjustments to improve my odds, unless this is entirely discretionary money - in which case I'd probably invest it more aggressively.
I agree.
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by dogagility »

The TIAA advisor will want to get paid. I'm guessing via an AUM model. This would be in addition to the high expense ratio funds the advisor wants to put you in. So, you may be looking at >1% fee/year in total. No advisor is worth this cost.

As for the TIAA advisor portfolio give you an 82% chance of success vs 18% in your current 50:50 asset allocation portfolio, I'm skeptical.

If you need some advise above what this forum could provide to you, I would look to Vanguard PAS or PlanVision.
Make sure you check out my list of certifications. The list is short, and there aren't any. - Eric 0. from SMA
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Zso
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Zso »

student wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:53 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:17 pm
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:59 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:49 am
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:41 am
Not me Your probably confused with another Post
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
Basically
Target Ret 2025 Tr Sel $443K
Instl 500 Index Trust $264K
Inst Tot Bd Mkt Ix Tr 163K
Just guessing that looks like maybe 50% equities 50% bonds with a little international thrown in. That doesn't seem like a wild departure from what any advisor would likely recommend, so I still don't see being able to get a huge improvement in success probability.

Of course at TIAA (or elsewhere, but more likely at TIAA) you could annuitize and then know what you'd have to spend (in nominal dollars, at least) but that's apparently not the immediate consideration here.
Me too. 18% to 82% chance of success? Any chance of mishearing? Eighty instead of eighteen or transposed two digits when the advisor typed the answer?
The TIAA recommendation was based on the 500 Monte Carlo Trials at the 25th %. And it contains all our assets. The 3 funds listed were just from my 401K porfilio. My original post states the assests
crefwatch
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by crefwatch »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:51 amThe worst was that i paid one $500 for their review and they proposed an annuity.
I can understand why this was disappointing. But you spent less than 5 ten-thousandths of one percent of your assets on the loser advisor. You are already spending 100 times that per year at Vanguard. (Expense ratios, not advice.)

You need a reliable referral.
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dogagility
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by dogagility »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:31 pm The TIAA recommendation was based on the 500 Monte Carlo Trials at the 25th %. And it contains all our assets. The 3 funds listed were just from my 401K porfilio.
Monte Carlo analysis of a portfolio is easy to perform on your own. No need to pay somebody for this "analysis". https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/mon ... simulation
Make sure you check out my list of certifications. The list is short, and there aren't any. - Eric 0. from SMA
student
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by student »

Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:31 pm
student wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:53 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:17 pm
Zso wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:59 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:49 am
Sorry, my fault; that was in this thread but posted by someone else. In any case, it still doesn't make sense that you'd go from 18% to 82% (which still doesn't seem all that high, incidentally) by simply adding funds. I'm assuming when you mentioned three funds you have some variation on the three-funds discussed here. You'd have to have a very inappropriate allocation now to see such a change in success probability.
Basically
Target Ret 2025 Tr Sel $443K
Instl 500 Index Trust $264K
Inst Tot Bd Mkt Ix Tr 163K
Just guessing that looks like maybe 50% equities 50% bonds with a little international thrown in. That doesn't seem like a wild departure from what any advisor would likely recommend, so I still don't see being able to get a huge improvement in success probability.

Of course at TIAA (or elsewhere, but more likely at TIAA) you could annuitize and then know what you'd have to spend (in nominal dollars, at least) but that's apparently not the immediate consideration here.
Me too. 18% to 82% chance of success? Any chance of mishearing? Eighty instead of eighteen or transposed two digits when the advisor typed the answer?
The TIAA recommendation was based on the 500 Monte Carlo Trials at the 25th %. And it contains all our assets. The 3 funds listed were just from my 401K porfilio. My original post states the assests
And your advisor showed you the report stating 18% chance of success?
tibbitts
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

I'm still not aware of anyone able to have TIAA manage an account without an AUM fee. Historically you could consult with your dedicated TIAA adviser and they would prepare a detailed plan for you when you requested it, not just incorporating your TIAA assets but everything else you have as well. But they wouldn't manage the money; you had to d-i-y and implement the plan yourself. But I'm not going to research the disclosure documents to try to figure it out since I don't have any interest in TIAA managing an account.
Careful
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Careful »

:greedy
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:25 pm I'm still not aware of anyone able to have TIAA manage an account without an AUM fee. Historically you could consult with your dedicated TIAA adviser and they would prepare a detailed plan for you when you requested it, not just incorporating your TIAA assets but everything else you have as well. But they wouldn't manage the money; you had to d-i-y and implement the plan yourself. But I'm not going to research the disclosure documents to try to figure it out since I don't have any interest in TIAA managing an account.
I believe TIAA Wealth Advisors do not charge an AUM fee. They do receive a bonus if you bring more assets under the TIAA umbrella. I don’t think they will “manage outside investments” but I think they’ll give you an overall plan with allocations, probability of success etc.

I have some funds with TIAA. You need at least $1 million in investable assets to “qualify for a wealth advisor.”
tibbitts
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by tibbitts »

Careful wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:28 pm :greedy
tibbitts wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:25 pm I'm still not aware of anyone able to have TIAA manage an account without an AUM fee. Historically you could consult with your dedicated TIAA adviser and they would prepare a detailed plan for you when you requested it, not just incorporating your TIAA assets but everything else you have as well. But they wouldn't manage the money; you had to d-i-y and implement the plan yourself. But I'm not going to research the disclosure documents to try to figure it out since I don't have any interest in TIAA managing an account.
I believe TIAA Wealth Advisors do not charge an AUM fee. They do receive a bonus if you bring more assets under the TIAA umbrella. I don’t think they will “manage outside investments” but I think they’ll give you an overall plan with allocations, probability of success etc.

I have some funds with TIAA. You need at least $1 million in investable assets to “qualify for a wealth advisor.”
Actually TIAA provided that - the plan incorporating outside assets, in considerable detail with projections - for me with less than $1 million until a couple of years ago. Now with more than $1 million they no longer do. It may be like with Vanguard Flagship where services were discontinued on a rolling basis. Or maybe $5 million or some other amount is the new $1 million, and you may be at whatever the new level is, while I'm not.
Careful
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Careful »

Yes, it used to be $500k in assets. Not sure when they bumped it up.
Careful
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Re: Tiaa vs Vanguard transfer

Post by Careful »

Careful wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:27 pm Yes, it used to be $500k in assets. Not sure when they bumped it up. I know it’s $1 million in investable assets as of now. If you have a million and are interested, ask them for it.
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