Help me interview, Negotiate Compensation

[LongMoney]

Hello,

I have some open-ended questions about an upcoming interview. I was looking for those with similar experiences to share their 'best practices' for the [final round of] interviews and methods for negotiation of compensation.

This upcoming event is the 3rd round of interviewing. First round was the hiring manager; second round was the group leader. They are flying me (32m) to their campus, and I will be staying overnight. It is a non-profit research organization. The opening is for a mid-level position (advanced degree, 6+ years experience) that includes some mentorship responsibilities along with some higher-level methodologies. My understanding is that I am being brought in to interview all day with multiple individuals from different groups.

Thanks,
M

[SnowBog]

I don't claim to be an expert... Been many years since I've dealt with this - and never in a non-profit setting... But since no one else has replied yet, figured I'd share my two cents...

Used to be the "recommendation" was to not share compensation details until they make you an offer. The thinking being you might inadvertently "request" less than they were willing to pay, and thus you end up getting less. By making them make you an "offer", you can "react" to it - and if you feel its low - you can try to negotiate accordingly.

Having said that, it's rare - or at least it was for me - that it ever worked this way... They didn't want to waste time if our expectations weren't aligned. Taking your next interview as an example, they are flying you out with an overnight stay and committing nearly an entire day of resources to interview with you. If they do that - and then find out they can't afford you - someone is going to get in trouble... (Conversely, if you impress the hell out of them, they might "fight" to get you the comp needed to make you happy.)

So, it was usually the case that we had an "understanding" on the compensation range at least before things got too far... Now that's probably easier with the various websites out there like Glassdoor, etc. where you can potentially find that out in advance.

One thing that I was always personally mindful is not talking compensation during the interview. I figured the interview was for me to impress them enough to get an offer and for me to learn as much as I could about the role, manager, and company to validate I'd want the job. If I was asked about "money", I'd reiterate what I knew about the "range", and make a comment to the effect of "I'm sure we can figure out the details if we both determine this is a good fit moving forward." And I'd emphasize that "finding the right fit" was more important to me than "finding a job" or "the paycheck" (which was true - and remains true for me).

Another factor - to be blunt - is "how desperate are you?" If you are currently "contently" employed, you can "afford" to be far more selective than if you don't current have a job, hate your job (or manager/etc.), and are desperate for a change... IMHO that changes how you approach both the interview, and the eventual negotiation...

When it finally gets to negotiation, again my preference is to let them "make me an offer". Usually, they do so...

I did have one company that refused, and forced me to define what it would take to work for them. I wasn't really "excited" by the opportunity up to that point, so I made a very aggressive ask - as that's what it would have taken to "get me excited". I overshot and didn't get the job - but that was completely fine with me. Again, it wasn't something that was really calling to me at the time...

In another example where they made the first offer, it was within the "range" I expected, but was a bit lower on a few points than I wanted - but I definitely wanted the job (both because I wanted the job and because I didn't want to stay in my old job). I took a few days to "think" about the offer, and then responded to them that I really wanted to work for them (I did), but I really wanted to be happy working for them (I did), and their offer didn't quite get me there. I shared a few data points to justify my ask - as an example, the position had a lower "net base pay" than the position I was leaving (with a much larger upside potential - but I didn't want to remind them of that ) - so I asked if they could increase the base. Likewise, due to the timing, I was walking away from a likely sizable bonus - and asked for them to take that into consideration. And lastly, IIRC their original offer was "normal" vacation, but due to my time in industry and with my prior employer, I expected more vacation. They did their best on all fronts, the base wasn't as much as I wanted, but I got a larger "sign-on" bonus (combination of upfront cash and stock vesting over several years) than I had expected, and they aligned my vacation to my satisfaction. In the end, they made me happy to accept the offer! And for the most part - I'm still mostly happy years later (which is why I'm out of practice on this front).

[LongMoney]

I don't claim to be an expert... Been many years since I've dealt with this - and never in a non-profit setting... But since no one else has replied yet, figured I'd share my two cents...

Used to be the "recommendation" was to not share compensation details until they make you an offer. The thinking being you might inadvertently "request" less than they were willing to pay, and thus you end up getting less. By making them make you an "offer", you can "react" to it - and if you feel its low - you can try to negotiate accordingly.

Having said that, it's rare - or at least it was for me - that it ever worked this way... They didn't want to waste time if our expectations weren't aligned. Taking your next interview as an example, they are flying you out with an overnight stay and committing nearly an entire day of resources to interview with you. If they do that - and then find out they can't afford you - someone is going to get in trouble... (Conversely, if you impress the hell out of them, they might "fight" to get you the comp needed to make you happy.)

So, it was usually the case that we had an "understanding" on the compensation range at least before things got too far... Now that's probably easier with the various websites out there like Glassdoor, etc. where you can potentially find that out in advance.

One thing that I was always personally mindful is not talking compensation during the interview. I figured the interview was for me to impress them enough to get an offer and for me to learn as much as I could about the role, manager, and company to validate I'd want the job. If I was asked about "money", I'd reiterate what I knew about the "range", and make a comment to the effect of "I'm sure we can figure out the details if we both determine this is a good fit moving forward." And I'd emphasize that "finding the right fit" was more important to me than "finding a job" or "the paycheck" (which was true - and remains true for me).

Another factor - to be blunt - is "how desperate are you?" If you are currently "contently" employed, you can "afford" to be far more selective than if you don't current have a job, hate your job (or manager/etc.), and are desperate for a change... IMHO that changes how you approach both the interview, and the eventual negotiation...

When it finally gets to negotiation, again my preference is to let them "make me an offer". Usually, they do so...

I did have one company that refused, and forced me to define what it would take to work for them. I wasn't really "excited" by the opportunity up to that point, so I made a very aggressive ask - as that's what it would have taken to "get me excited". I overshot and didn't get the job - but that was completely fine with me. Again, it wasn't something that was really calling to me at the time...

In another example where they made the first offer, it was within the "range" I expected, but was a bit lower on a few points than I wanted - but I definitely wanted the job (both because I wanted the job and because I didn't want to stay in my old job). I took a few days to "think" about the offer, and then responded to them that I really wanted to work for them (I did), but I really wanted to be happy working for them (I did), and their offer didn't quite get me there. I shared a few data points to justify my ask - as an example, the position had a lower "net base pay" than the position I was leaving (with a much larger upside potential - but I didn't want to remind them of that ) - so I asked if they could increase the base. Likewise, due to the timing, I was walking away from a likely sizable bonus - and asked for them to take that into consideration. And lastly, IIRC their original offer was "normal" vacation, but due to my time in industry and with my prior employer, I expected more vacation. They did their best on all fronts, the base wasn't as much as I wanted, but I got a larger "sign-on" bonus (combination of upfront cash and stock vesting over several years) than I had expected, and they aligned my vacation to my satisfaction. In the end, they made me happy to accept the offer! And for the most part - I'm still mostly happy years later (which is why I'm out of practice on this front).

I greatly appreciate your perspective and examples . I tried, unsuccessfully, to get them to make me an offer first. the issue that Im running into is that this is a brand new position which does not have any compensation history, and it is not something that is common in these sorts of places. The truth is that i desperately want to work for them. my experience is tailored exactly to their niche, so I am leery on overshooting their expectations. They are moving extremely fast with the interviews so it was my belief that I will get an offer at the conclusion of the visit (so long as they dont see all my red flags hehe). I suppose I need more time for self reflection - im bouncing ideas off of strangers at this point

[8301]

SnowBog gave a nice recommendation above.

OP may take a recent one as a case study.
viewtopic.php?t=399481

[Admiral]

What is your current salary?

It sounds like you live across the country from this job. The rule of thumb (from before the pandemic, at least) was that most people would not leave one job for another job without at least a 20% bump in compensation. For a long-distance move, that number would be higher: I'd say at least 30-40%. If you have a family, it would have to be higher still, though only you can decide what's appropriate. If it's a non-profit, all their salaries should be public on the Web. Have you researched this?

Simply do the math on what you require, and then ask for it. If it's way off the mark on the high end, then they will tell you that and you can decide to negotiate or not.

I am older than you but, personally, I would not even consider a move unless my salary was doubled.

[scophreak]

As a mid-career professional (advanced degree + >10 years of experience) my experience in interviewing with several nonprofit research organizations is that the overall compensation package is LOWER than what I currently make (sometimes comically so), even for an increase in title/responsibility. I don't intend that as a blanket statement, but would not be surprised if their target range for the role is below what you might expect.

[funxional]

What is your current salary?

It sounds like you live across the country from this job. The rule of thumb (from before the pandemic, at least) was that most people would not leave one job for another job without at least a 20% bump in compensation. For a long-distance move, that number would be higher: I'd say at least 30-40%. If you have a family, it would have to be higher still, though only you can decide what's appropriate. If it's a non-profit, all their salaries should be public on the Web. Have you researched this?

Simply do the math on what you require, and then ask for it. If it's way off the mark on the high end, then they will tell you that and you can decide to negotiate or not.

I am older than you but, personally, I would not even consider a move unless my salary was doubled.

If it is a take-it or leave-it job and the company is doing the pursuing those percentages make sense. However, salary isn't everything.

The OP is mid-career and it sounds like this might be a unique opportunity for growth. If the company has strong candidates locally they aren't going to want to pay a premium to get someone to move. The other question is how the current salary and position compare. As other posters note it's possible that going to a research organization from a public company will be a pay cut.

The other posts recommending research are spot on. Even if this is a new role they have some salary estimate. Find out what you can about what similar type of roles pay both at that organization and nearby organizations. Compare what public companies pay for similar types of roles. It's always a bit of a guessing game but you should be able to estimate some sort of range.

If your current pay is higher than what you think they will pay you can couch it. "I'd like to make a lateral move so around $X". Throw all of your benefits in there (bonus, 401k match, etc) and round up. If that's far over their expectations you are still making it clear that you aren't trying for a salary grab and they will likely understand that. Also the number that you start negotiating is the base so adding in all your benefits is a way to increase the number without making up a number.

If you think the role is likely to pay more than you currently make the approach is different. Keep in mind they already paid to fly you out, put you up in a hotel, and everyone set aside time to interview you. They WANT to hire you. If you ask for 20% over the top of their salary band they aren't going to tell you to take a hike. Even if you ask 50% over the top of their salary band I expect they would probably tell you that's far out of their range and ask if you are set on the amount.

[ClevrChico]

I like to ask the recruiter/HR person for the compensation of a position during the initial screening. With multi-round interviews so common, this can save you a lot of time. It is law they disclose this for a few states. It's almost certain they have created a budget for the position when they created it.

If you're at the point of having an onsite, then you'll have to wait for an offer. You'll need to understand the market to see if it's fair. They probably will have some wiggle room, but not a lot. Playing hardball (that some people strongly advocate for) can get an offer rescinded as they likely have a pool of candidates to choose from.

[8301]

I like to ask the recruiter/HR person for the compensation of a position during the initial screening. With multi-round interviews so common, this can save you a lot of time. It is law they disclose this for a few states. It's almost certain they have created a budget for the position when they created it.

If you're at the point of having an onsite, then you'll have to wait for an offer. You'll need to understand the market to see if it's fair. They probably will have some wiggle room, but not a lot. Playing hardball (that some people strongly advocate for) can get an offer rescinded as they likely have a pool of candidates to choose from.

An outstanding must-not-to-lose candidate is the exception rather than the rule.