Holy moly my credit score dropped like a rock!!

[dcw213]

Same situation happened to me last year. Had one 0% offer for a 12 month period so figured what the heck, I’ll earn a few free bucks. Once that card went above 50% of its limit my score dropped like 75 points (low 800s down to low-mid 700s). I was surprised and decided it wasn’t worth it for a couple hundred dollars. Score did recover very quickly after paying it off and actually went higher than it was running at previously.

[lakpr]

I'm not sure how opening and closing credit cards helps your credit score.

By having a very thick and active credit profile. Accounts that are not closed due to negative reasons (default, bankruptcy, etc.) remain on the credit reports for 10 years from the date of closure.

The more important thing to focus on is the age of the oldest active card in the portfolio. In my case that is 27 years old, my first card which was an AT&T Universal Card that subsequently became Citi Double Cash.

[Lynx310650]

Same situation happened to me last year. Had one 0% offer for a 12 month period so figured what the heck, I’ll earn a few free bucks. Once that card went above 50% of its limit my score dropped like 75 points (low 800s down to low-mid 700s). I was surprised and decided it wasn’t worth it for a couple hundred dollars. Score did recover very quickly after paying it off and actually went higher than it was running at previously.

That's good to know, I think I'll just pay them off and try something else, like chasing savings/checking account opening bonuses

[JoMoney]

With even standard bank savings hitting over 3%, I decided to play some credit card games by keeping balances on 0% APR offers, and also doing some 0% balance transfers. I've been keeping the extra savings in high interest savings and treasuries. I have been near maxing my credit on some credit cards (since those are the ones with the offers) but keeping my overall credit utilized fairly low (I have a lot of cards with pretty large maxes).

I was shocked to see my credit dropped from the low-mid 800s to the mid 600s in a matter of months!

Now I'm debating whether this was worth it and if I should just withdraw the money and pay these suckers off. Albeit I have no plans on any purchases that will utilize credit, but I'm worried this is going to impact stuff like my insurance.

If I pay off the balances will my credit score go right back up?

It sounds like you were making money off the credit arrangement you made. Is the "score" more valuable to you?
Why do you care if your credit score temporarily dropped? Were you planning on getting a mortgage sometime soon?

[criticalmass]

Pay off your balances and stop playing credit card games.

Why? Credit card games can be far more lucrative, if played with skill.

[michaeljc70]

I'm not sure how opening and closing credit cards helps your credit score.

By having a very thick and active credit profile. Accounts that are not closed due to negative reasons (default, bankruptcy, etc.) remain on the credit reports for 10 years from the date of closure.

The more important thing to focus on is the age of the oldest active card in the portfolio. In my case that is 27 years old, my first card which was an AT&T Universal Card that subsequently became Citi Double Cash.

New credit (10%)
Research shows that opening several credit accounts in a short amount of time represents a greater risk—especially for people who don't have a long credit history.

https://www.myfico.com/credit-education ... edit-score

This is what goes into your FICO credit score:



Credit mix (installment vs revolving) is only 10%.

[criticalmass]

With even standard bank savings hitting over 3%...

LOL, please tell us more about these 3%+ savings rates at standard banks. Last I looked the FDIC's Jan 17 report indicates that savings account rates are currently averaging around 0.33%, and Bankrate's Jan. 25 weekly survey last tallied them at 0.23%. The big brick-and-mortar banks likes Wells Fargo, Chase, BOA, US Bank are all even lower at a dismal 0.01%

No doubt, but savvy consumers looking for good market FDIC insured bank interest aren’t going near the likes of Wells Fargo, Bank of America, etc. They are using the banks that are paying 4%+ or at least 3.5%+. The big banks with lousy interest are for those getting other deals like “preferred client” or are not great at math.

[sandan]

I have two decades of payment history, not a single late payment. Clearly I have all of the above. Yet… if I close and old CC or lower my credit amount, or pay off a mortgage I held for a long period of time, my credit score will tank. Ridiculous. Honestly the dumbest system I’ve ever seen.

Is closing a CC going to ding you enough out of qualifying for the best rates & loans? I've only closed low-limit accounts (sub $10k) and this hasn't happened to me. I used to keep track of all my limits to make sure they weren't raised too high but I've been lazy and letting this slide...

[SconnieBro]

With even standard bank savings hitting over 3%, I decided to play some credit card games by keeping balances on 0% APR offers, and also doing some 0% balance transfers. I've been keeping the extra savings in high interest savings and treasuries. I have been near maxing my credit on some credit cards (since those are the ones with the offers) but keeping my overall credit utilized fairly low (I have a lot of cards with pretty large maxes).

I was shocked to see my credit dropped from the low-mid 800s to the mid 600s in a matter of months!

Now I'm debating whether this was worth it and if I should just withdraw the money and pay these suckers off. Albeit I have no plans on any purchases that will utilize credit, but I'm worried this is going to impact stuff like my insurance.

If I pay off the balances will my credit score go right back up?

It sounds like you were making money off the credit arrangement you made. Is the "score" more valuable to you?
Why do you care if your credit score temporarily dropped? Were you planning on getting a mortgage sometime soon?

+1. I don’t understand the hand-wringing over one’s credit score. I’ll happily play credit card games, take a few thousand bucks, and a credit score of 760 vs forgoing that money and a score of 830.

[lakpr]

+1. I don’t understand the hand-wringing over one’s credit score. I’ll happily play credit card games, take a few thousand bucks, and a credit score of 760 vs forgoing that money and a score of 830.

In the OP's case, that high utilization tanked his score to 600+, not just 760.

Some handwringing *IS* warranted, see my previous comment up-thread ... this poor score COULD influence the rates offered on auto + homeowners insurance renewals. Perhaps not if one's state explicitly banned using credit history in determining insurance rates (not all states did).

[SconnieBro]

+1. I don’t understand the hand-wringing over one’s credit score. I’ll happily play credit card games, take a few thousand bucks, and a credit score of 760 vs forgoing that money and a score of 830.

In the OP's case, that high utilization tanked his score to 600+, not just 760.

Some handwringing *IS* warranted, see my previous comment up-thread ... this poor score COULD influence the rates offered on auto + homeowners insurance renewals. Perhaps not if one's state explicitly banned using credit history in determining insurance rates (not all states did).

Sure, everyone should do their due diligence, but I’m doubtful that insurance rates will increase anywhere near the gain if OP is doing this right.

I also mentioned up thread that OP’s mistake was doing this with personal cards and not business cards. However, before he throws the baby out with the bath water he should quantify just how much his credit score drop *may* cost him, if at all.

[mrspock]

I have two decades of payment history, not a single late payment. Clearly I have all of the above. Yet… if I close and old CC or lower my credit amount, or pay off a mortgage I held for a long period of time, my credit score will tank. Ridiculous. Honestly the dumbest system I’ve ever seen.

Is closing a CC going to ding you enough out of qualifying for the best rates & loans? I've only closed low-limit accounts (sub $10k) and this hasn't happened to me. I used to keep track of all my limits to make sure they weren't raised too high but I've been lazy and letting this slide...

Mortgages are the bad part, with your oldest CCs you can side step credit report impact by demoting the CC to a free variant of the card, but keep the account open. I paid off a mortgage which I held for 8-9 years or so, one of the older things on my credit report. For my good deed, they nuked my credit score to the tune of 50 points (dropping it to the mid 700s) due to its impact on my “average credit history”. Had I wanted to get another mortgage after that, it would have absolutely impacted my ability to get the lowest rates.

Very silly. So ya, think it through before you close long held mortgages or CCs, get your new mortgage figured out first.

[michaeljc70]

As others have implied....credit scores and lending standards are a joke to some extent. When I bought my current place, I couldn't get a mortgage even though I could afford to pay cash and had a very high credit score. Lending is very geared toward base case scenarios. In my case, I hadn't been self employed long enough to qualify. I had done the same work for 25+ years...but go between being an employee and being self employed. It was EXACTLY the same work but some I was paid on a 1099 and some I was paid on a W2. If they cannot lend to someone that has the ability to pay cash...something isn't right.

[corpgator]

Ally has checking accounts.

Thanks for the head-up and nudge. I just looked into that a bit and their available services for checking, mobile deposit, and online bill pay have improved considerably since we set up our HYSA there a few years ago. Definitely worth considering now.

Transfers are instantaneous.

They haven't been for us, and Ally has never promised us otherwise. There's always been a 3-day lag in EFT transfers, and they've never arrived sooner. For example, last month we moved $40K from Ally HYSA to our US Bank checking account. We initiated the transfer on 12/18 and the funds arrived on 12/20, as promised.

Regardless, Ally isn't a "standard bank" by any stretch of the generally accepted definition.

I ditched Ally because their transfers were so slow.

[jharkin]

I had the same thing happen. Last year we travelled a TON, making up for lost time. Really started raking up some decent points and decided to make use of the 5/24 rule while I could to open up a couple new rewards cards and maximize sign up bonus points getting us to a higher tier one one program and a free week at a certain hotel chain. A couple cards had long 0% offers as well so I decided to let it float and dump much of our free cash into IBonds while the rates where 6%+

Coincidentally, at the same time I get a notice from Discover card that they closed a card for lack of use. It’s one I had since college that doesn’t offer much and I literally forgot I had it, but being such an old account that probably hurt.

I looked at CK and my 790-800 score dropped to 700 in amatter of months. Ugh

[sunny_socal]

I value a high credit score. Bogleheads talk about "opportunity cost" and "dry powder", those are usually associated with having cash available to pounce on a good deal or a market downturn. A good credit scores allows access to the best credit deals, such as low APR loans or 0% credit cards. For example our mortgage is a paltry 2.5% - no way we would have it without a stellar score! That mortgage is essentially free now.

Anyway, I also play the 0% CC games occasionally. It is true that carrying a balance on those cards may seem "free" but credit score is certainly impacted with a high balance.

Even worse is being late on a payment, no matter how small. I was once suckered into applying for a department store CC (Macy's) to get a 10% discount on a large purchase. Later my wife also wanted a card so I called CS and they sent her one. I assumed it would be the same account and same card number. Turns out her card was totally separate. She was happy charging purchases to it while I was paying mine - looked like zero balance on my side but we kept getting statements! (Hardly anything, $30.) Months went by before I figured out what was going on. By that time my credit report already showed "Late by 90 days" and my score dropped 200 points! It took years for that to heal.

[Vulcan]

Later my wife also wanted a card so I called CS and they sent her one. I assumed it would be the same account and same card number. Turns out her card was totally separate. She was happy charging purchases to it while I was paying mine - looked like zero balance on my side but we kept getting statements! (Hardly anything, $30.) Months went by before I figured out what was going on. By that time my credit report already showed "Late by 90 days" and my score dropped 200 points! It took years for that to heal.

How did her card end up on your report?

[sandan]

I have two decades of payment history, not a single late payment. Clearly I have all of the above. Yet… if I close and old CC or lower my credit amount, or pay off a mortgage I held for a long period of time, my credit score will tank. Ridiculous. Honestly the dumbest system I’ve ever seen.

Is closing a CC going to ding you enough out of qualifying for the best rates & loans? I've only closed low-limit accounts (sub $10k) and this hasn't happened to me. I used to keep track of all my limits to make sure they weren't raised too high but I've been lazy and letting this slide...

Mortgages are the bad part, with your oldest CCs you can side step credit report impact by demoting the CC to a free variant of the card, but keep the account open. I paid off a mortgage which I held for 8-9 years or so, one of the older things on my credit report. For my good deed, they nuked my credit score to the tune of 50 points (dropping it to the mid 700s) due to its impact on my “average credit history”. Had I wanted to get another mortgage after that, it would have absolutely impacted my ability to get the lowest rates.

Very silly. So ya, think it through before you close long held mortgages or CCs, get your new mortgage figured out first.

Thanks. I've also fallen by 50 points for a month or two I think to a similar I level.

[enad]

Unless you're planning a major purchase involving a finance, your score should recover in 9-12 months, and even if you are financing something you can explain what happened and maybe it won't count against you.

[barnaclebob]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

[stoptothink]

Same situation happened to me last year. Had one 0% offer for a 12 month period so figured what the heck, I’ll earn a few free bucks. Once that card went above 50% of its limit my score dropped like 75 points (low 800s down to low-mid 700s). I was surprised and decided it wasn’t worth it for a couple hundred dollars. Score did recover very quickly after paying it off and actually went higher than it was running at previously.

That's good to know, I think I'll just pay them off and try something else, like chasing savings/checking account opening bonuses

Only you can determine what it is worth to you. I've played the churning game for ~8yrs now (and paid off our mortgage) and my score has never dropped below mid-700s, and always recovered pretty fast. We've made well into 4-figures with my recent round of credit card churning. We bought non-perishable necessities (food storage, kids clothing and shoes for next few years, other household items) in bulk at cheapest time of year (Black Friday/Cyber Monday) on new 0% APR cards while inflation and HYSA/MM/Ibonds rates were still high. As a result, my credit score dropped from 830s to 770s in the last handful of months, but since I am not looking for a mortgage anytime soon, I'm not sure what difference it makes (and technically I am still in the highest bracket). Also, our overall household spending should be considerably less the next few years. We have a pretty high HHI and 7-figure portfolio, so a few thousand dollars isn't changing our life, but I rarely have the opportunity to make money so easily and I actually enjoy the game. It's worth it to me.

IMO, chasing account bonuses is more of a hassle, plus they are taxed, so I only go for really good ones.

[michaeljc70]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

Out of curiosity, missed by how long? That's quite a hit.

[JackoC]

+1. I don’t understand the hand-wringing over one’s credit score. I’ll happily play credit card games, take a few thousand bucks, and a credit score of 760 vs forgoing that money and a score of 830.

In the OP's case, that high utilization tanked his score to 600+, not just 760.

Some handwringing *IS* warranted, see my previous comment up-thread ... this poor score COULD influence the rates offered on auto + homeowners insurance renewals. Perhaps not if one's state explicitly banned using credit history in determining insurance rates (not all states did).

Sure, everyone should do their due diligence, but I’m doubtful that insurance rates will increase anywhere near the gain if OP is doing this right.

I also mentioned up thread that OP’s mistake was doing this with personal cards and not business cards. However, before he throws the baby out with the bath water he should quantify just how much his credit score drop *may* cost him, if at all.

I wish there was better info on the insurance thing. The possibility is always mentioned but I've never seen it quantified. I wondered recently, my (Geico, NJ) car insurance went up around 20% in liability categories (not as much 'PIP' [NJ car/medical] and comprehensive categories). Probably a coincidence with a recent 36-42 point drop in score (from ca. 800, per Credit Karma) due to a large CC statement balance*, though paid in full, since there was a generic cover letter 'your premium might have gone up, we're doing all we can etc.', and I got quotes with some website that logs onto your existing insurance account and (supposedly) makes sure you're getting quoted for the same policy and best one was only marginally better than Geico, not worth switching, other two significantly higher (as usual). Could they all have been using a lower score? But Geico probably set those rates before my credit score drop, which isn't *that* big.

*I partly agree with a previous statement about doing CC games with company card, if you control a company, since it avoids affecting your own credit score. But two things, 1) my little LLC accounts for any CC reward/rebate as reduction in tax deductible expense, hence effectively taxable and I don't see another legitimate way to account for it, whereas a personal CC reward/rebate is not personal taxable income (some people debate that, but I believe it's clear). 2) my best personal cards have higher ordinary cashback % than any of the LLC's cards, hence I will often pay for LLC stuff with personal card, account for it as 'account payable' to the Managing Member (me) and eventually clear the payable by paying myself back from LLC funds. But I count the CC cash back on my card as personal rebate not included in the LLC's accounting. The 40 point drop was caused by a down payment to a contractor for the LLC which made one of my card balances reach almost 1/2 the credit line. That one payment though generated a $150+ after tax pick up in cashback compared to using the LLC's card, same next month for the balance payment. In the course of a year it can top $1k.

[changingtimes]

I did it with a bunch of cards last year (0% apr rates for x months) to deal with big expenses from buying a vacation home. I have plenty of money in savings, but it's all in an inherited IRA and extra withdrawals would have bumped me into the 32% bracket. So I took the credit card advances to push having to pay back those cards until this year, when I can withdraw at 22/24%. I was also hoping the market would come back a bit before having to withdraw, tbh.

But my credit dropped to 688 (paying off my car probably dinged this a bit as well). Some of the cards are still months from needing to be paid, but I do hate that lower score, so I will probably start paying them off.

[FrugalConservative]

I dont understand the obsession one has with their credit score. Nver have never will.

[michaeljc70]

I dont understand the obsession one has with their credit score. Nver have never will.

I don't think you need to obsess over it. But it can impact the cost of car loans, mortgages, HELOCs, auto insurance. homeowner's insurance, ability to rent an apartment and getting new credit cards among other things. If you don't need any of those things, then there is no need to really even pay attention. Most people do have some of those things.

A handful of states ban the use of credit scores for auto insurance and I believe a few municipalities ban their use in rental applications.

[barnaclebob]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

Out of curiosity, missed by how long? That's quite a hit.

I paid it off the day after it became late which was the first notification i had seen. I never used that card and lost my primary card on a weekend trip. I never saw it had a balance on my app because that account is listed below my checking/savings/money market and i have to scroll down to see it. I tried a mailed in im sorry letter bit they said they were legally required to report it.

Luckily i have no need to take out any loans for the foreseeable future.

[michaeljc70]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

Out of curiosity, missed by how long? That's quite a hit.

I paid it off the day after it became late which was the first notification i had seen. I never used that card and lost my primary card on a weekend trip. I never saw it had a balance on my app because that account is listed below my checking/savings/money market and i have to scroll down to see it. I tried a mailed in im sorry letter bit they said they were legally required to report it.

Luckily i have no need to take out any loans for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully it will recover quickly. I thought credit card companies don't report it as late unless it is 30+ days past the due date.

[barnaclebob]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

Out of curiosity, missed by how long? That's quite a hit.

I paid it off the day after it became late which was the first notification i had seen. I never used that card and lost my primary card on a weekend trip. I never saw it had a balance on my app because that account is listed below my checking/savings/money market and i have to scroll down to see it. I tried a mailed in im sorry letter bit they said they were legally required to report it.

Luckily i have no need to take out any loans for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully it will recover quickly. I thought credit card companies don't report it as late unless it is 30+ days past the due date.

Yeah the first notice i saw was 30 days past the due date.

[barnaclebob]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

Out of curiosity, missed by how long? That's quite a hit.

I paid it off the day after it became late which was the first notification i had seen. I never used that card and lost my primary card on a weekend trip. I never saw it had a balance on my app because that account is listed below my checking/savings/money market and i have to scroll down to see it. I tried a mailed in im sorry letter bit they said they were legally required to report it.

Luckily i have no need to take out any loans for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully it will recover quickly. I thought credit card companies don't report it as late unless it is 30+ days past the due date.

Actually my score only dropped to 718 so not as bad as 670.

[Raraculus]

With even standard bank savings hitting over 3%, I decided to play some credit card games by keeping balances on 0% APR offers, and also doing some 0% balance transfers. I've been keeping the extra savings in high interest savings and treasuries. I have been near maxing my credit on some credit cards (since those are the ones with the offers) but keeping my overall credit utilized fairly low (I have a lot of cards with pretty large maxes).

I was shocked to see my credit dropped from the low-mid 800s to the mid 600s in a matter of months!

Now I'm debating whether this was worth it and if I should just withdraw the money and pay these suckers off. Albeit I have no plans on any purchases that will utilize credit, but I'm worried this is going to impact stuff like my insurance.

If I pay off the balances will my credit score go right back up?

I had a similar situation. I paid down my CC's in anticipation of applying for a cash-out refinancing. The credit scores went back up slowly. Eventually, I abandoned the cash-out refinancing process and went back to using CC''s.

In my situation, using 0% APR CC's has been worth the cost of my lowered credit score. The key being that the 0% APR offers have to be at least 15 months or more.

I'm noticing another trend... The credit line offers for new 0% APR CC's have been declining the longer I do this 0% APR CC churn. Interestingly enough, with Chase as the card issuer, I can get a travel CC with at least $10,000 credit line, but with a normal APR rate. Or, I can get a 18-month 0% APR CC with a credit limit of $3,000. These are two offers from Chase that I can qualify for. Why can't I get that 0% APR CC with a credit limit of $10,000?!? I don't want a travel CC.

I finding it difficult to keep the 0% APR CC churn going now. The offers are coming down. Recently, I barely qualified for a 0% APR CC with a credit limit of $4,000. In today's inflationary times, I can maybe use this card for 4-5 months, tops. Then I have to hunt for a new 0% APR CC.

[jmw]

I had a similar situation. I paid down my CC's in anticipation of applying for a cash-out refinancing. The credit scores went back up slowly. Eventually, I abandoned the cash-out refinancing process and went back to using CC''s.

In my situation, using 0% APR CC's has been worth the cost of my lowered credit score. The key being that the 0% APR offers have to be at least 15 months or more.

I'm noticing another trend... The credit line offers for new 0% APR CC's have been declining the longer I do this 0% APR CC churn. Interestingly enough, with Chase as the card issuer, I can get a travel CC with at least $10,000 credit line, but with a normal APR rate. Or, I can get a 18-month 0% APR CC with a credit limit of $3,000. These are two offers from Chase that I can qualify for. Why can't I get that 0% APR CC with a credit limit of $10,000?!? I don't want a travel CC.

I finding it difficult to keep the 0% APR CC churn going now. The offers are coming down. Recently, I barely qualified for a 0% APR CC with a credit limit of $4,000. In today's inflationary times, I can maybe use this card for 4-5 months, tops. Then I have to hunt for a new 0% APR CC.

The 0% is still plentiful at $10k, $20k, etc. There is something wrong with your credit profile. Nothing catastrophic, but something definitely problematic.

Try AZEO for at least three months on all credit cards/HELOC (the nonzero balance should be less than $100 on a $10k+ card) so they all report properly and pay all installment loans off but the mortgage. If you can't do that right now, that suggests you are already in the beginning stages of trouble and should quit the 0% game. I don't play the 0% game at all. Too little reward and it could be very costly if I need to leverage credit for a major transaction like a mortgage refinance.

[Raraculus]

The 0% is still plentiful at $10k, $20k, etc. There is something wrong with your credit profile. Nothing catastrophic, but something definitely problematic.

Try AZEO for at least three months on all credit cards/HELOC (the nonzero balance should be less than $100 on a $10k+ card) so they all report properly and pay all installment loans off but the mortgage. If you can't do that right now, that suggests you are already in the beginning stages of trouble and should quit the 0% game.

Thank you for the tip regarding AZEO. I didn't know about this one. I can't do AZEO, unfortunately. I have two CC's that are fully maxxed out and am onto my 3rd CC in this 0% APR churn. My credit score is 'Fair'. I can still get credit, but diminishing returns are making it hard to do. Ah well, such is life.

[muffins14]

With even standard bank savings hitting over 3%...

LOL, please tell us more about these 3%+ savings rates at standard banks. Last I looked the FDIC's Jan 17 report indicates that savings account rates are currently averaging around 0.33%, and Bankrate's Jan. 25 weekly survey last tallied them at 0.23%. The big brick-and-mortar banks likes Wells Fargo, Chase, BOA, US Bank are all even lower at a dismal 0.01%

You could probably pick a name out of a hat full of fidelity or vanguard money market funds and it would be paying 2.5-4% pre-tax

[michaeljc70]

6 months ago I fell victim to a bogleheads worst nightmare and missed a $300 credit card payment after 15 years of perfect credit history and an 820 credit score. Score dropped to 670 and has since been flirting with 750.

Out of curiosity, missed by how long? That's quite a hit.

I paid it off the day after it became late which was the first notification i had seen. I never used that card and lost my primary card on a weekend trip. I never saw it had a balance on my app because that account is listed below my checking/savings/money market and i have to scroll down to see it. I tried a mailed in im sorry letter bit they said they were legally required to report it.

Luckily i have no need to take out any loans for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully it will recover quickly. I thought credit card companies don't report it as late unless it is 30+ days past the due date.

Actually my score only dropped to 718 so not as bad as 670.

That's not so bad. Before I went all paperless, I was late on a payment because I didn't receive the paper statement and didn't track it in depth otherwise. Due to close to daily Quicken downloads, the late fee alerted me and I made a payment (and called and got the late fee waived). Since then, I setup auto payment on all my credit card accounts. Of course, I need to make sure my checking account can cover the auto pays.

I had an odd thing happen lately that led to confusion. I had autopay on Comcast internet. Apparently once you cancel service, they cancel autotpay
for some inexplicable reason. I won't make conspiracy theories... But why would they stop that? Other than to make extra $