bogle.tools/portfolio - tool to help collect and format Portfolio Review info

[Rob Relyea]

Introducing: I'd like to introduce bogle.tools/portfolio to assist Asking Portfolio Questions.

Personally, when I've prepared portfolio review posts, it involved 2 documents: a word document with my template to edit, and an excel spreadsheet to help calculate portfolio percentages and was fairly complicated.

I'm attempting to make the new tool do a decent job of collecting most of the information for a Portfolio Review post...and formatting it in the preferred format.

Goals for Tool
I hope this tool, can help users who choose to use it:
- users create higher quality posts (have more of the info the first time)
- users focus on the important questions, not the formatting/etc. (enter data, check "use forum markup", press "copy to clipboard" button)

[This adds to bogle.tools/saving which I built to help simplify enacting Prioritizing Investments wik (forum thread about tool).]

Known issues to implement/fix:
- provide way to generate phpBB markup for a user to include in a post. (update: implemented)
- make it easier for the user to realize that they need to fill out bogle.tools/saving in order to generate the Contributions section...and make sure they know how to get back to the /portfolio they are creating.

Questions for you:
Do you think a tool like this has potential?
Any suggestions?

Open Source
The tool is open source, and I'll keep track of feedback and bugs here: github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues

Privacy: A reminder, like the /saving tool, this site doesn't transmit financial information about anybody off the device that one uses to use it. As such, no financial data is tracked or stored about anybody.

Thanks, Rob

A current example screen shot of the summary page for entering Portfolio Review data:

[Rob Relyea]

Known issues to implement/fix:
- provide way to generate phpBB markup for a user to include in a post.

Implemented this:
Enter your data.
Check "Use forum markup" checkbox.
Press "copy to clipboard" button.

[LadyGeek]

It's always good to provide information in as many different formats as possible. Some might like a website, but I think it's easier to simply work directly in an editor on your computer.

I should point out that the Asking Portfolio Questions post includes a link to the wiki: Asking Portfolio Questions

We link to the wiki because it contains a template that can be easily copied to a text editor. The template is already formatted for the forum's BBCode.

[Rob Relyea]

It's always good to provide information in as many different formats as possible. Some might like a website, but I think it's easier to simply work directly in an editor on your computer.

I should point out that the Asking Portfolio Questions post includes a link to the wiki: Asking Portfolio Questions

We link to the wiki because it contains a template that can be easily copied to a text editor. The template is already formatted for the forum's BBCode.

Understand your feelings here LadyGeek!

I think that software custom built to help, should be able assist the creation of a Portfolio Request better than a text editor. Some may still prefer a text editor, though!

We'll see what users think as it evolves.

Has anybody tried the tool to create a review post? Would love to hear feedback!

[2022fireoops]

Rob

This is nifty and should be super helpful for folks who are, say, technology challenged. I filled it out and posted it to the "Please Try Test Posts Here" thread and it looks great.

I'll admit to being slightly confused by the "Contributions" and "Available Funds" sections, exactly what those are expected to provide.

A couple of suggestions, in order of ease of development:
1) it might simply have a field to fill out desired/retirement year? (Edit: Seems like that should be in the wiki anyway?)
2) once fully implemented, a button to automatically post to the appropriate forum would be fantastic.

Thanks for doing this.

[LadyGeek]

A couple of suggestions, in order of ease of development:
1) it might simply have a field to fill out desired/retirement year? (Edit: Seems like that should be in the wiki anyway?)
2) once fully implemented, a button to automatically post to the appropriate forum would be fantastic.

2022fireoops - Nice suggestions, but there are two concerns.

1) The first one will need a discussion in the thread I mention below. You're welcome to post your idea there.

2) Sorry, but it's not technically possible.

Rob Relyea -

1) Please don't modify the website tool for items not in the template.

As I've stated elsewhere, items in the wiki need a forum consensus. This also applies to the forum post Asking Portfolio Questions.

There is a considerable amount of member feedback (positive and negative) on the format. Proposed changes need to be discussed here first: Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread If we get a consensus, I'll update the forum post and wiki.

2) phpBB does not have a REST API. (Translation: It can't be done.)

[Rob Relyea]

This is nifty and should be super helpful for folks who are, say, technology challenged. I filled it out and posted it to the "Please Try Test Posts Here" thread and it looks great.

Thanks 2022fireoops! Glad you see promise in it.

I'll admit to being slightly confused by the "Contributions" and "Available Funds" sections, exactly what those are expected to provide.

When things are tough to use, or hard to understand, there is clearly work to be done.
At first, I've just changed the wording on the Contributions and Available Funds sections

- Wording for Contributions:

Old: Fill out all sections of Annual Saving, then navigate back to your Portfolio Review to complete it.
New: While you are earning income, making sure you are making annual investment contributions in the wisest manor. Fill out all sections of Annual Saving, then navigate back to your Portfolio Review to complete it.

- Wording for Available Funds:

Old: Fill out funds available in 401k, 403b accounts. Accounts are created in Portfolio/Retirement Assets
New: List all funds available in 401k/403b/457b accounts. This helps advisers understand your best options in pre-tax accounts. If the list doesn't show you any accounts, you need to go create them in Portfolio/Retirement Assets

Hopefully that helps clarify. Would love feedback or ideas for other improvements.

Suggestion 1) it might simply have a field to fill out desired/retirement year? (Edit: Seems like that should be in the wiki anyway?)

Like LadyGeek replied, we need to be careful about adding fields to the Portfolio Review tool that diverge from the Portfolio Review requested format. So, yes, we should give/discuss feedback through this Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread.
That said, bogle.tools may write other modules to help deal with other tasks. Why do you want to write down your planned retirement year?

Suggestion 2) once fully implemented, a button to automatically post to the appropriate forum would be fantastic.

Interesting idea. Have recorded in down in bogle.tools issues list: Portfolio Review: button to automatically post to forum would be fantastic #39. Unfortunately, as Ladygeek said, this isn't an easy task as there is no official REST API for this bulletin board software (phpBB) yet. But I've written down the request, in case it becomes feasible.

Thanks for doing this.

You're welcome - appreciate the feedback!

[LadyGeek]

This is nifty and should be super helpful for folks who are, say, technology challenged. I filled it out and posted it to the "Please Try Test Posts Here" thread and it looks great.

In that thread, dratkinson has provided a suggestion for those wishing to using Word. I also provided a follow-up suggestion.

See: Subject: Please Try Out Test Posts Here

...Idea for new members. If you'll do all of your work in a Word documents, you can do everything there and it should look okay when copy/pasted into a forum New Reply.
--Most start by copy/pasting "Asking Portfolio Questions" into a Word document and save it on their PC.
--Then edit it on their PC until it is the way they want it.

Testing special text formatting. If you need any special text formatting (bold, italics, bullet points,...), those can be inserted after you copy/paste your Word document into a New Reply (in correct forum section). Why? The forum's text formatting differ from that used in word processors. You'll see the forum formatting surrounding forum draft text, and if you copy your unfinished work to save back in a Word documents. You'll be okay if you preserve the forum's text formatting while working in Word.

To test your forum text formatting. Copy/paste from your unfinished Word document into a "New Reply", then click "Preview" to see your formatting changes. Make any needed edits/changes.

If you have a lot more information to add to your post, then copy/paste your work-in-progress back into Word, to work on it more/later. This means you can do all of your work in Word, and just Preview your work-in-progress in a New Reply to verify everything is coming along nicely. You don't need to Submit your post until you are ready. This means you never have to post anything, anywhere on the forum until you have everything ready....

...Here's another suggestion:

Do what dratkinson says, but copy the template as shown in the wiki's Asking portfolio questions article.

Word won't recognize the special text formatting characters between the brackets '[ x]' and '[/ ]', but the forum software does. So, just put your text between those characters (leaving them in-place).

Copy-n-paste your portfolio into the forum post, hit 'Preview' and the formatting will appear as intended. Edit and re-Preview as many times as needed. Once you're satisfied, copy the post text back into your Word program and save it so you'll have a 'master' copy to work from. Then, Submit the post. (The post also becomes your 'master' copy.)

[HomeStretch]

OP, the portfolio format produced by your new tool would be easier for me as a reviewer if you used ‘Person 1’, ‘Person 2’ and ‘Joint’ or ‘P1’, ‘P2’ and ‘Joint’ to describe each individual and both persons together as a couple. While I appreciate your gender-neutral use of ‘Them’ and ‘Their’ to describe Person 2, it can cause confusion as the titles can also applied to the couple (2 people). So consider my gender-neutral alternatives for clarity.

For example, when I read ‘Their 401k’ or ‘Their HSA’, it reads like a joint asset (when it cannot be). It would be especially confusing if the couple contributes to a joint Taxable account if you labeled the joint account as ‘Their Taxable’ as a reviewer won’t know if the account belongs individually to P2 or jointly to the couple. Your example is missing the identifier of the owner(s) of the ‘Taxable’ account listed in 2 places.

In your example, I see the house debt but not the equity, which is useful to know for context and net worth.

‘Their 401k’ under ‘Contributions’ (there are 3 lines) looks a bit wonky. I think you are showing the elective deferral/employer match, catch-up contribution and mega backdoor Roth contributions for P2’s one 401k plan on 3 lines. It would be helpful if you labeled the catch-up contribution line and grouped all the contribution lines for the same 401k plan together.

[Rob Relyea]

OP, the portfolio format produced by your new tool would be easier for me as a reviewer if you used ‘Person 1’, ‘Person 2’ and ‘Joint’ or ‘P1’, ‘P2’ and ‘Joint’ to describe each individual and both persons together as a couple. While I appreciate your gender-neutral use of ‘Them’ and ‘Their’ to describe Person 2, it can cause confusion as the titles can also applied to the couple (2 people). So consider my gender-neutral alternatives for clarity.

For example, when I read ‘Their 401k’ or ‘Their HSA’, it reads like a joint asset (when it cannot be). It would be especially confusing if the couple contributes to a joint Taxable account if you labeled the joint account as ‘Their Taxable’ as a reviewer won’t know if the account belongs individually to P2 or jointly to the couple. Your example is missing the identifier of the owner(s) of the ‘Taxable’ account listed in 2 places.

In your example, I see the house debt but not the equity, which is useful to know for context and net worth.

‘Their 401k’ under ‘Contributions’ (there are 3 lines) looks a bit wonky. I think you are showing the elective deferral/employer match, catch-up contribution and mega backdoor Roth contributions for P2’s one 401k plan on 3 lines. It would be helpful if you labeled the catch-up contribution line and grouped all the contribution lines for the same 401k plan together.

Busy now, will have to think this through and address later.
Thanks for the feedback!
However, just so you know, under the Portfolio / Age section, you can choose he/she already.

[HomeStretch]

… However, just so you know, under the Portfolio / Age section, you can choose he/she already.

He/She are individual descriptors so no issue with that. It’s the use of “their” as described in my earlier post for someone who chooses to use gender neutral descriptors.

[2022fireoops]

This is nifty and should be super helpful for folks who are, say, technology challenged. I filled it out and posted it to the "Please Try Test Posts Here" thread and it looks great.

Thanks 2022fireoops! Glad you see promise in it.

I'll admit to being slightly confused by the "Contributions" and "Available Funds" sections, exactly what those are expected to provide.

When things are tough to use, or hard to understand, there is clearly work to be done.
At first, I've just changed the wording on the Contributions and Available Funds sections

- Wording for Contributions:

Old: Fill out all sections of Annual Saving, then navigate back to your Portfolio Review to complete it.
New: While you are earning income, making sure you are making annual investment contributions in the wisest manor. Fill out all sections of Annual Saving, then navigate back to your Portfolio Review to complete it.

- Wording for Available Funds:

Old: Fill out funds available in 401k, 403b accounts. Accounts are created in Portfolio/Retirement Assets
New: List all funds available in 401k/403b/457b accounts. This helps advisers understand your best options in pre-tax accounts. If the list doesn't show you any accounts, you need to go create them in Portfolio/Retirement Assets

Hopefully that helps clarify. Would love feedback or ideas for other improvements.

This is much clearer for me (as a new member of the forum, and probably a good proxy for a typical form-filler).

Suggestion 1) it might simply have a field to fill out desired/retirement year? (Edit: Seems like that should be in the wiki anyway?)

Like LadyGeek replied, we need to be careful about adding fields to the Portfolio Review tool that diverge from the Portfolio Review requested format. So, yes, we should give/discuss feedback through this Suggestion for updating "Asking Portfolio Questions" thread.
That said, bogle.tools may write other modules to help deal with other tasks. Why do you want to write down your planned retirement year?

I'll spend a while looking through old portfolio review posts and then decide whether or not to make a suggestion in the correct thread.

My thinking was somewhat along these lines: While it's the investor's prerogative and responsibility to make and act upon their own risk decisions, Bogleheads who choose to kindly review portfolios would better understand posters' risks if both age and proposed retirement date were known. For instance, the risk profile of a 22 year old who plans to FIRE at 30 is far different than the same individual planning to retire at 65, or a 52 year old planning to FIRE at 60. Sorry if that is OT.

Suggestion 2) once fully implemented, a button to automatically post to the appropriate forum would be fantastic.

Interesting idea. Have recorded in down in bogle.tools issues list: Portfolio Review: button to automatically post to forum would be fantastic #39. Unfortunately, as Ladygeek said, this isn't an easy task as there is no official REST API for this bulletin board software (phpBB) yet. But I've written down the request, in case it becomes feasible.

Thank you.

Thanks for doing this.

You're welcome - appreciate the feedback!

[WoobieX]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for doing this.

I just posted my first Portfolio Review and the experience of prepping is fresh. Like you I used a Word doc and an Excel doc to prepare, then followed the posted template in the forums, copy/pasted everything and edited/previewed it before hitting "submit." I appreciated the freedom-in-a-framework that the current template offers.

And...

I also just took a quick tour of the new tool. Love the idea. I ran into two things and I offer them in all ignorance of what it takes to make a tool like this work. So I'm a typical end-user :

1) Something that I frequently encounter with planning tools; the assumption of an employer relationship and a regular salary. While I think the guided tour approach in the Annual Savings tab is well thought out, it doesn't really work for the self-employed like me. I may not represent your target user audience. It seems like the Portfolio Review is dependent on the Annual Savings tab. I wonder if the option to lump-sum accounts into the tool might not help some users or those who don't need as structured an approach. I'm thinking in particular about the retirement savings and HSA sections of the Annual Savings tab. Could I just designate the type of account and a lump sum contribution goes in for the chosen year? Or at least have the option to do that?

2) Any chance there is a way to upload or copy/paste the portfolio rather than enter each holding? Hopefully when I have everything cleaned up I might not even pause when entering a few funds across a Taxable, and a few Tax Deferred accounts. Today I look at the data entry being asked an I pause.

Thank you again. I love planning tools!

WoobieX

[Rob Relyea]

I appreciated the freedom-in-a-framework that the current template offers.

Yes, want to preserve that freedom with this tool. I imagine there might be cases where I should allow a "note" to be attached to different sections. And of course, since at the end you copy and paste the output of the tool, you can add/change it, all you like.

1) Something that I frequently encounter with planning tools; the assumption of an employer relationship and a regular salary. While I think the guided tour approach in the Annual Savings tab is well thought out, it doesn't really work for the self-employed like me. I may not represent your target user audience. It seems like the Portfolio Review is dependent on the Annual Savings tab. I wonder if the option to lump-sum accounts into the tool might not help some users or those who don't need as structured an approach. I'm thinking in particular about the retirement savings and HSA sections of the Annual Savings tab. Could I just designate the type of account and a lump sum contribution goes in for the chosen year? Or at least have the option to do that?

I plan to follow up with you soon via PM to go deeper into your request here.
Tracking that request: Suggestion for self-employed #40

2) Any chance there is a way to upload or copy/paste the portfolio rather than enter each holding? Hopefully when I have everything cleaned up I might not even pause when entering a few funds across a Taxable, and a few Tax Deferred accounts. Today I look at the data entry being asked an I pause.

Good question. I think data entry could be improved...like when you type a ticker...I should try to lookup the full name of the fund/stock. It would also be great if there were a way to export different accounts from different "custodians"...or at least the common ones.
Tracking that request: Portfolio entry - easier way? #41

Thank you again. I love planning tools!

You're welcome - thanks for the feedback!

[Rob Relyea]

Just deployed some good changes to both /portfolio and /saving
- add portfolio Additional Background section, before Questions (experimenting with how to insert other background info with tool)
- implement Question data entry
- default person identifier to 'person 1' and 'person 2'
- navigate to "annual saving" when you get to portfolio "contribution" step. (still, ideally, need to help people get back to portfolio review)
- savings: revamped summary page based on portfolio Contributions text format. (big change)
- savings: calculate planned savings based on annual income - taxes - monthlyExpenses x 12 + additionalMoneyFromTaxableAccount (still need to visualize in step context better)
- reordered Head of Household to bottom of Tax Filing Status listboxes.
- fixed formatting to use commas when appropriate in all (i think) places where we display a dollar figure.
- savings: fifty or older, and fifty-five or older, are no longer checkboxes...as we just calculate it now from the ages we now ask for, like portfolio section did.

Thanks for your feedback that is helping me make changes that impact the usefulness of the tools!
-Rob

[Rob Relyea]

2) Any chance there is a way to upload or copy/paste the portfolio rather than enter each holding? Hopefully when I have everything cleaned up I might not even pause when entering a few funds across a Taxable, and a few Tax Deferred accounts. Today I look at the data entry being asked an I pause.

Good question. I think data entry could be improved...like when you type a ticker...I should try to lookup the full name of the fund/stock. It would also be great if there were a way to export different accounts from different "custodians"...or at least the common ones.
Tracking that request: Portfolio entry - easier way? #41

I'm investigating a small step to making portfolio entry easier when entering portfolio details for a portfolio review...

When somebody types in a TICKER, I'd like to look up and automatically enter the fund/stock name (and Expense Ratio if possible). I realize the ER can be tricky, as inside some accounts, you will get different expense ratios for the same funds.

Financial APIs ($)
There are several financial APIs that could be used here, i know of alphavantage.co (i use free tier for bogle.tools/3fund) and eodhistoricaldata.com (saw a thread on bogleheads recommend recently).
I'd rather not pay $20 or $50 per month to enable my site to use these services to look up ticker->fund name, at this point. I'm trying to keep monthly costs low.

Other locations to get ticker->fund name
I'd love other pointers to "open" data that my site could use to help add this feature.
Do you know of downloadable lists of ticker->fund names? Perhaps vanguard has one? But ideally, I'd find one that has funds from all fund providers.
(would be even greater if I could get expense ratios, too.

[update1: while investigating after this post, i just found a json file with tons of vanguard fund detail when I was looking to see where investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/list/all downloads its data from. ]
[update2: I created a compact file (data/funds.json), with just ticker, longFundName and expense ratio for my initial use.]
[update3: now the portfolio entry page will lookup many vanguard funds when you type in the ticker name and fill in the fund name and expense ratio automatically!]
[update4: added fidelity tickers now too. Try them and let me know how it works for you. Any common fidelity funds missing?]

One option
One option I'm considering is to just create by hand a list of very common funds that people use (VTI, VTSAX, etc..) with their fund names.

Would love any pointers or ideas here!

[LadyGeek]

I should point out that Vanguard is one of many fund providers. As noted in the tagline "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" we follow the man and not the company. Providing only Vanguard funds would show a bias which this forum does not have. A list of providers can be found in the wiki: Category:Investment management company

Additionally, some employer retirement plans utilize funds without a ticker symbol. Those cases are private funds not publicly traded. My prior employer did this. In this case, we tell members to post the benchmark tracked by the private fund. It's in the fund's fact sheet, along with the expense ratio.

Knowing which benchmark a fund tracks tells us everything we need to know about composition and performance.

How confident are you that the Vanguard json file will be maintained? Expense ratios will change. Have tried a screen scraper?

[Rob Relyea]

I should point out that Vanguard is one of many fund providers. As noted in the tagline "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" we follow the man and not the company. Providing only Vanguard funds would show a bias which this forum does not have. A list of providers can be found in the wiki: Category:Investment management company
...
How confident are you that the Vanguard json file will be maintained? Expense ratios will change. Have tried a screen scraper?

Yes, understand. If somebody wanted to fund $20-50 a month, happy to support every fund info. For now, I'm trying to piece it together.
I now have support for Fidelity and Vanguard fund ticker lookup (added Fidelity since earlier today).
Would love people to try out Fidelity tickers and Vanguard tickers and let me know if holes exist for common funds.
Navigate to /portfolio/retirement-assets part of site to try it out.

Update strategy: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/46
Seems like the Vanguard data I am using is very current...

Additionally, some employer retirement plans utilize funds without a ticker symbol. Those cases are private funds not publicly traded. My prior employer did this. In this case, we tell members to post the benchmark tracked by the private fund. It's in the fund's fact sheet, along with the expense ratio.

Knowing which benchmark a fund tracks tells us everything we need to know about composition and performance.

Thanks. Good info. Tracking via: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/issues/48

[LadyGeek]

I now have support for Fidelity and Vanguard fund ticker lookup (added Fidelity since earlier today).

I gave it a quick try. I did find FSKAX, but not FLXSX. When I deleted FSKAX and then repopulated the field, the lookup didn't populate the fund name field.

Hang on, I paged back to portfolio/tax-status (please fix the HTML page title).

The IRS tax tables have an "off by 1" issue. Allow the selection of the tax bracket, but don't provide the dollar amounts. Users need to find this info from the "official" sources on their own. (Note that the tax brackets themselves don't change, just the dollar thresholds.)

For comparison, here's the IRS info: IRS provides tax inflation adjustments for tax year 2023 which is not all that clear.

Look how Kiplinger implements the table: 2022-2023 Tax Brackets and Federal Income Tax Rates | Kiplinger and notice where they split the brackets.

[Rob Relyea]

Thanks for the continued detailed feedback LadyGeek!

I now have support for Fidelity and Vanguard fund ticker lookup (added Fidelity since earlier today).

I gave it a quick try. I did find FSKAX, but not FLXSX. When I deleted FSKAX and then repopulated the field, the lookup didn't populate the fund name field.

Opened tracking issue: Fidelity funds missing FLXSX #50

Hang on, I paged back to portfolio/tax-status (please fix the HTML page title).

Don't think I want to change the titles, I like the hierarchical look that matches URL.

The IRS tax tables have an "off by 1" issue. Allow the selection of the tax bracket, but don't provide the dollar amounts. Users need to find this info from the "official" sources on their own. (Note that the tax brackets themselves don't change, just the dollar thresholds.)

For comparison, here's the IRS info: IRS provides tax inflation adjustments for tax year 2023 which is not all that clear.

Look how Kiplinger implements the table: 2022-2023 Tax Brackets and Federal Income Tax Rates | Kiplinger and notice where they split the brackets.

Opened tracking issue: Improve tax tables layout and verify dollar amounts #49

[LadyGeek]

Opened tracking issue: Fidelity funds missing FLXSX #50

I just happened to pick that fund at random. I don't own it. My point is that it will be very difficult to nail down everything in a similar manner to the sites which do this commercially. It might be easier on you to remove the lookup. It would also be somewhat educational to let the users look this up on their own.

Don't think I want to change the titles, I like the hierarchical look that matches URL.

Perhaps, but the users (other than myself) would not understand what that means. In a browser chock full of open tabs, a short title can help identify where to look.

Opened tracking issue: Improve tax tables layout and verify dollar amounts #49

My point was to remove the tables and leave the brackets. Users should not depend on your website for authoritative information (IRS source). What year do those tables apply? (I can answer that, but it needs to be clearly documented.)

[Rob Relyea]

Opened tracking issue: Fidelity funds missing FLXSX #50

I just happened to pick that fund at random. I don't own it. My point is that it will be very difficult to nail down everything in a similar manner to the sites which do this commercially. It might be easier on you to remove the lookup. It would also be somewhat educational to let the users look this up on their own.

I looked up that fund to figure out why Fidelity's fund screener didn't list it in their query results.
FLXSX info: https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635V489

• Shares are available only to certain fee-based accounts and advisory programs offered by Fidelity.

• Closed to Investors

I've now manually added that fund to bogle.tools' fund list.

I think ticker lookup is a fantastic convenience, and I'd rather keep gathering feedback, and keep enhancing for now.

Don't think I want to change the titles, I like the hierarchical look that matches URL.

Perhaps, but the users (other than myself) would not understand what that means. In a browser chock full of open tabs, a short title can help identify where to look.

Would love concrete suggestions here. Are you hoping in the case below that I have a title of "age" or "bogle-tools - age" or "age - portfolio" or ????

When I look at my current tabs open in this browser i see:
- a bogleheads post -- title is: "Suggestion for updating..."
- this tab -- title is: "Bogleheads.org - Post a ..."
- github tab -- title is: "Issues * bogle-tools/site"
- fidelity tab -- title is: "FLXSX - Fidelity Flex"
- bogle.tools tab -- title is: "portfolio/age"

Those tabs all take different approaches. I'd say portfolio/age is similar to the gihub issues title. etc...
All of them benefit from a good icon, which I don't have yet (issue#52)

[LadyGeek]

The site already has an icon in the tab. Something like "site name - tool" should be OK, e.g. Portfolio-tools - Review.

I've now manually added that fund to bogle.tools' fund list.

Remember that I picked that fund at random and have no idea if it's used here.

[Rob Relyea]

Something like "site name - tool" should be OK, e.g. Portfolio-tools - Review.

Thanks, yes. I do like "Portfolio: review", "Portfolio: debts", etc... better. Made that change.

The site already has an icon in the tab.

An icon shows up, yes. But it is the default Icon for a Blazor app, so I really should create a bogle.tools icon at some point.

[Rob Relyea]

The IRS tax tables have an "off by 1" issue. Allow the selection of the tax bracket, but don't provide the dollar amounts. Users need to find this info from the "official" sources on their own. (Note that the tax brackets themselves don't change, just the dollar thresholds.)

For comparison, here's the IRS info: IRS provides tax inflation adjustments for tax year 2023 which is not all that clear.

Look how Kiplinger implements the table: 2022-2023 Tax Brackets and Federal Income Tax Rates | Kiplinger and notice where they split the brackets.

Opened tracking issue: Improve tax tables layout and verify dollar amounts #49

Fixed the tax tables. They look much better now. Thanks.


Also, in the portfolio value section, I now give you the option of representing $1,200,000 as:
- defaults to “low seven-figures”
- or $1,200,000
- or $1.2M

[LadyGeek]

Please put the tax year in the tax table title. The IRS announces the brackets for the next year early, so readers will be confused what year those tables apply to.

The portfolio value is in https://bogle.tools/portfolio/retirement-assets . Sorry but "Portfolio Value style " doesn't make sense in the context intended. The template has:

Please provide an approximate size of your total portfolio (as in 50K, 700k, 1.4M, etc.) or as (high four-figures, mid five-figures, low six-figures, etc.).

Try rewording that to something like the original text.

[Rob Relyea]

2) Any chance there is a way to upload or copy/paste the portfolio rather than enter each holding? Hopefully when I have everything cleaned up I might not even pause when entering a few funds across a Taxable, and a few Tax Deferred accounts. Today I look at the data entry being asked an I pause.

Better Keyboard Navigation
I recently improved keyboard navigation through the accounts/investments a bunch. For example, when you click "+" to add a new investment, I make focus go to the ticker field. Etc... Try it out at bogle.tools/portfolio/retirement-assets...and let me know how I can improve it.

My earlier notes on this:

also just fixed Issue#47, so that on a desktop browser, you can click on + to add investment, focus will move to ticker textbox, enter that, then press tab twice to get back to "+". then press spacebar (or enter if that doesn't work), and it will add another investment with the focus set to the ticker.
also works for adding accounts...focus is set to the first dropdown of an account (pronoun or account type), press spacebar to dropdown the list, and then choose.

Downloading Portfolio Details from Major Custodians
I am still thinking of ways to make this better...today I found a way that would probably work really well for Vanguard and Fidelity, and likely some other Custodians too.

My recent comment in Issue#41 captured these details:

Vauguard
I found that Vanguard has a "Download Center" link which takes you to: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/OfxWelcome
Step 1: choose "A spreadsheet-compatible CSV file."
Step 2: "1 month" is fine. You need balances, not transactions, so duration doesn't matter.
Step 3: choose which accounts to download.

I haven't done the work to import that CSV file yet...but it wouldn't be hard.

Fidelity
On the positions tab (navigate to: https://digital.fidelity.com/ftgw/digit ... /positions), you'll see a download icon, to the right of a printer icon just to the top-right of the top account table.
Click on that, You'll download a CSV.

I haven't done the work to import that CSV file yet...but it wouldn't be hard.

[WoobieX]

Thanks for your continued focus on this Rob. I'll give the tool a spin tomorrow when I have some time to focus and come back to you. I just took a fast peek: It's certainly evolved from your first posting!

BTW, I use Vanguard's download center frequently. Very easy to pull down balances and transactions in *.csv format, open it in excel and manipulate or copy/paste into other spreadsheets/databases.

[WoobieX]

Hi Rob,

Had a chance to sit down and go through it again today.

Entering portfolio data is getting easier! Adding the Vanguard lookup feature helped a lot. For any non-Vanguard funds I copy/pasted descriptions and ER data over from my portfolio tracking spreadsheet.

I think I can describe my challenges with the Annual Savings segment better this time. I'm going to frame this as a clueless suggestion and explain why.

Annual Savings segment clueless suggestion:

For someone employed in a more traditional employer-employee relationship this savings walk-through may work.

For the self employed with variable income this section becomes a maze that has to be hacked to arrive at workable numbers. I kept asking "Why do you need to know my Employer?" For example: I don't need an employer to have an HSA. We have HDHP health insurance designated as HSA optional, so we have HSA accounts. I'm self employed, over 50, with a Solo 401K and and while technically that means I make 3 kinds of contributions: elective, catch-up, and profit sharing does the tool need to know that. I think the amounts matter more than who makes the deposit.

I wonder if it would be possible to make the Annual Savings segment usable for a wider range of users [and maybe streamline it?] if you allowed us, right from the start, to lay out a savings plan for the year:

"Add the ways you plan to save this year and outline the types and sources of funding:”
[Let us add various forms of savings we plan for, similar functionality to what you let us do in laying out our portfolio by adding accounts]

So I might:

Add: After Tax [pull from a drop down list] and add an amount:__________

Add: Tax Deferred Savings [pull from drop down]
Choose For: [Person 1]
Text Field: What kind of account it is [or a drop down with a list similar to the portfolio account section]
Amount of contribution made pre-tax:__________
Amount of contribution made after-tax:_________ Is this a Roth contribution? [yes/no]
Amount matched or provided by employer:__________

Add: Tax Deferred Savings [pull from drop down]
Choose For: [Person 2]
Text Field: What kind of account it is [or a drop down with a list similar to the portfolio account section]
Amount of contribution made pre-tax:__________
Amount of contribution made after-tax:_________ Is this a Roth contribution? [yes/no]
Amount matched or provided by employer:__________

Add: Etc.

As an example I might enter this savings plan for 2023:

Taxable, funded after-tax : 50,000
Solo 401K, funded pre-tax: 73,500
IRA, funded after-tax: 7,500 [non-Roth]
HSA, funded pre-tax: 4,850
HSA: funded pre-tax 4,850
Etc.

Taxable Subtotal: [calculation]
Tax Deferred Subtotal: [calculation]
Tax Sheltered Subtotal: [calculation]
Total Savings Goal for 2023: [calculation]


This would allow anyone to plug in their numbers regardless of employment, but I’m not sure what that does to the various calculations and recommendations you make downstream.

After I tweaked the fields and totals in the Annual Savings tab to approximate our life and entered our portfolio data the output looked great.

Thanks again for doing this and apologies in advance for any eye-rolling you may do on my Annual Savings suggestion.

[Rob Relyea]

2) Any chance there is a way to upload or copy/paste the portfolio rather than enter each holding? Hopefully when I have everything cleaned up I might not even pause when entering a few funds across a Taxable, and a few Tax Deferred accounts. Today I look at the data entry being asked an I pause.

Import of Vanguard or Fidelity CSV files with accounts/investments

Hope you like the new support for:
1) downloading csv file from Vanguard/Fidelity
2) upload that csv file to bogle.tools/portfolio/retirement-assets using the choose file button.
(note, i put lots of warnings on that page...)
3) classify each account (they will all default to Taxable)
4) delete "account note" that the import procedure left the account name (when using fidelity)

Clearly, not every user should get in the habit of uploading files like these...Need to figure out how I can make this "local web app" known to be trustworthy. It is open source, but that doesn't stop a malicious actor from deploying slightly different app than the github source shown.

Other Custodian Import Support
I'm willing to write import routines for more Custodians, but I don't have access to their CSV file formats. Feel free to Private Message me with an example file that you remove any personal information you don't want to share with me. (please do!) Schwab is probably next on my list.

Please let me know if you have suggestions around this.

Also added Save/Load of Portfolio Review data file

The main portfolio review page (bogle.tools/portfolio) also has a new Save/Load functionality at the bottom.

I brainstormed some different Load/Save ideas in issue#36: https://github.com/bogle-tools/site/iss ... 1384151745
Would love feedback.

[LadyGeek]

In https://bogle.tools/portfolio, I uploaded a random .jpg image and got no errors.

I also tried to download and got an error "An unhandled error has occurred."

[Rob Relyea]

In https://bogle.tools/portfolio, I uploaded a random .jpg image and got no errors.

Thanks, added a

Code: Select all

accept=".json"

attribute on the LOAD button for portfolio data. Should be improved, but may need more fixing...

I also tried to download and got an error "An unhandled error has occurred."

I swear that was working. Need better testing. Thanks for the feedback. Fixed now, I believe.

Thanks, Rob

[LadyGeek]

The download worked. How many users besides you and I will understand JSON format?

I then uploaded that same file. There was no confirmation message and the data was not imported (values reset to default).

Changing the upload filter to '*.*', I then retried with a random .jpg filter. The filename was displayed, but there was no error message and the content did not change.

You're shooting from the hip here. Slow down and think this through. Follow process. Write a development plan to focus on data input, UI requirements. Next, write a test plan for data input validation - which includes the UI layout. Do the same for the financial variables project and JSON files (discussed in that thread).

If you can't already tell, I have a strong test engineering background (and systems engineering). You like to code, but development is only the first step of the process. IOW, the System V curve must be followed. See: V-model - Wikipedia for a very brief overview. You should already be familiar with this.



If this seems like what you do at work, it is. The only difference is your target audience and your work hours are flexible.

[Rob Relyea]

The download worked. How many users besides you and I will understand JSON format?

Yes, most people are expected to not open the file in text editors.

I then uploaded that same file. There was no confirmation message and the data was not imported (values reset to default).

Would love to know which data points weren't working for you. Feel free to report that problem via private message. Will test more as well...opened issue#64
Update: i fixed two problems.

• The first problem made the data bigger than 512K, which was too big to load. You'll need to reenter data and save again...(or you can from the funds array that is stored in investment...but that is tricky in a text editor)

• The 2nd problem made it so that debts couldn't load.

• Both should be fixed. Let me know if you have any other Load/Save problems.

Changing the upload filter to '*.*', I then retried with a random .jpg filter. The filename was displayed, but there was no error message and the content did not change.

Thanks for the report. Opened Issue#63

You're shooting from the hip here. Slow down and think this through. Follow process. Write a development plan to focus on data input, UI requirements. Next, write a test plan for data input validation - which includes the UI layout. Do the same for the financial variables project and JSON files (discussed in that thread).

Will slow down a bit and figure out how to build automated tests for Blazor apps. Opened Issue#65


Thanks for continued feedback!

[LadyGeek]

Sorry, I don't see anything that's changed.

In https://bogle.tools/portfolio, upload any random file that's not JSON. The filename is displayed with no error message. You really need to provide user feedback - what happened and why. I suggest reopening your issue.

Next, none of your input fields are validating input data. Enter 'abcd' for Age in https://bogle.tools/portfolio/age. The summary page https://bogle.tools/portfolio is blank. It's critical you display an error message and let the user try again.

I don't know how to say this any better, but without input validation (user entry and file), your tool is not ready for release. Your Blazor test plan should perform input and file validation everywhere - verify the user sees an error message with invalid data.

I got your PM, but problems should be discussed in this thread. If others are seeing the same thing, they'll be able to add their comments.

[Rob Relyea]

Thanks LadyGeek

Sorry, I don't see anything that's changed.

I was trying to say that if you save a portfolio data file, you should be able to open it now.
(and I said that your originally saved file was the problem, because my SAVE code made the file too big...so make a new file)

In https://bogle.tools/portfolio, upload any random file that's not JSON. The filename is displayed with no error message. You really need to provide user feedback - what happened and why. I suggest reopening your issue.

I still have Issue#63 open, covering that issue.

Next, none of your input fields are validating input data. Enter 'abcd' for Age in https://bogle.tools/portfolio/age. The summary page https://bogle.tools/portfolio is blank. It's critical you display an error message and let the user try again.

I don't know how to say this any better, but without input validation (user entry and file), your tool is not ready for release. Your Blazor test plan should perform input and file validation everywhere - verify the user sees an error message with invalid data.

I've opened Issue#69. Thx.
I'm trying to prioritize what I fix and improve based on feedback and my feel. Please keep the feedback coming.
It is good to know about the bad effects if somebody enters letters for their age.
Update: Age only accepts numbers now. Marked fixed. Plan to fix other validation issues when they get user feedback.

I got your PM, but problems should be discussed in this thread. If others are seeing the same thing, they'll be able to add their comments.

I was just doing a PM to not unnecessarily do replies on the thread, pointing you to my update of my last message. Happy to have all comments in the open when they make sense too.


Thanks!
-Rob

[LadyGeek]

I'm trying to prioritize what I fix and improve based on feedback and my feel. Please keep the feedback coming.
It is good to know about the bad effects if somebody enters letters for their age.
Update: Age only accepts numbers now. Marked fixed...

-First, your data validation is incorrect. I was able to enter the character 'e' and '.' in the age field. The field also accepts negative numbers.
-A spinner is not needed here.

You should be validating with an appropriate regexp(). A statement such as "Enter an age between X and Y" is helpful.

Plan to fix other validation issues when they get user feedback.

No, you should fix all validation issues now. Why? It's the most cost-effective approach. Just wait till you release the tool and users start complaining. Updates to a released tool are very, very expensive (as you should know).

Please write a test plan and ensure your code complies. Think of how many types of data will be entered in those fields and test against that.