Why very high speed internet?

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enad
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by enad »

We are continuously being bumped into higher speeds and eventually they cost more, so we are now in the process of bumping our 250 Mbps service to 100 Mbps service and won't miss anything. In about 6 months (maybe sooner) they'll upgrade our 100 Mbps service to 150 Mbps, but in the meantime we'll enjoy paying less for bandwidth that we'd never use. We don't stream since we installed an outdoor antenna nearly 8 years ago and get over 110 channels (50 by the time the ones we'd never watch are removed)
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quantAndHold
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by quantAndHold »

Chuckles960 wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:47 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:45 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:39 pm I agree that almost no one needs it. Stable 25Mb/s service is fine for most people. Web page response is determined by the weakest link, which is usually at the web server end. If you are using wifi, that is also a weak link (limiting factor for speed), especially if not in the same room as the router.
Any wifi router purchased in the last decade is rated for at least 600Mbps, and can run laps around 25Mbps. The router that came with my modem could do 2Gbps actual, if I had 2 gigabits to put through the pipe.
Rated yes, actual no. Also 5G wifi slows sharply if going through walls, assuming you can connect at all, and 2G wifi slows down significantly also.

It is of course true that wifi is not a limiting factor if internet is 25Mb/s. But it is frequently the limiting factor if you have several hundred Mb/s internet.
Rated 10Gbps, actual, 2Gbps. You are correct that 15 year old wifi is inadequate for current broadband, but that’s not where we’ve been for awhile. This is my phone connected to my wifi. I have 500 Mbps service. The wifi seems adequate.

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Stef
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Stef »

I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.

No real use case though. All rooms are linked with Cat 7 cables and my PC has a 10 Gbits network card, but 0.5GB/sec was the fastest download I got so far on platforms like Steam.

Wifi 6 gets me up to 700 Mbits Download/Upload, which is nice. Especially the upload rate which lets me backup my iPhone 14 Pro Max photos (48MP, 75MB per photo) pretty fast.
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dstac
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by dstac »

Just another data point...
We upgraded to 50Mb in Q2 2020 with covid for $35/mo. With plenty of people in the house using it for work and school at once, it just wasn't cutting it.

In addition, there was a piece of specific graphic design software that is hosted on a work server that requires a remote login to access when wfh. This was not very viable at the speeds we are seeing on the upload side.

By Q3 2020 we had shifted to fiber gig for $50/mo all in fixed price. Couldn't be happier.

We did wait too long to also upgrade our home wifi to a mesh system and now get 800Mb+ down & up all the time and everywhere. Cheap price for not having to worry about speeds at all.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by TheOscarGuy »

exodusing wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:04 pm For those who have high speed internet, such as 500Mbs or gigabyte, what do you do that requires such speed? The most bandwidth I see for typical use is 25Mbs for 4k video, so four simultaneous streams would only need a 100Mbs connection. Web browsing, social media, email, etc. only use a small amount of bandwidth. Gaming seems to require low latency more than bandwidth. I suppose some people regularly move massive files over the internet, but I'd think that would be rare.
:D
Since pandemic I have 2 4K monitors, 3 4K TVs. The one time my kid is playing and both of us working from home I am happy I have that speed.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by jayjayc »

Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow, that's a fantastic deal!
sureshoe
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by sureshoe »

There are 2 types of internet speed: Down and Up.

Most people have "high download" simply because it's cheap to get into ridiculously high numbers that most people can't begin to use. If you have 300+ mbps, you could actively be streaming multiple HD movies. Torrents are about the only reason to have down speeds over 100mbps because the vast majority of servers can't even service that level of speed.

Most residential customers have lower uploads. And really, the only reason to get into the 100mpbs upload range is if you're running a web server or some sort of distributed content. No single use app will ever use that. If you have 2 people on HD zoom calls and 2-3 people playing Call of Duty, you might see your up speed start to struggle on a residential, 20mbps up type package.

Beyond all that, most times people don't know (or care) what they're doing. Most people's internet experience is limited by their shoddy home network. Most people would be better served getting hardwiring throughout their house than getting more cowbell... err more internet speed.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by sureshoe »

Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.

No real use case though. All rooms are linked with Cat 7 cables and my PC has a 10 Gbits network card, but 0.5GB/sec was the fastest download I got so far on platforms like Steam.

Wifi 6 gets me up to 700 Mbits Download/Upload, which is nice. Especially the upload rate which lets me backup my iPhone 14 Pro Max photos (48MP, 75MB per photo) pretty fast.
That is some serious industrial strength s#@!t. Most commercial organizations with under 100 people don't have that kind of network.

To my other point, sometimes this is more about nerd-fantasy-fulfillment than actual need :) And no offense meant, I'm actively running wires to AVRs just because I don't like seeing wireless indicators on my network...
rockstar
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by rockstar »

sureshoe wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:25 pm There are 2 types of internet speed: Down and Up.

Most people have "high download" simply because it's cheap to get into ridiculously high numbers that most people can't begin to use. If you have 300+ mbps, you could actively be streaming multiple HD movies. Torrents are about the only reason to have down speeds over 100mbps because the vast majority of servers can't even service that level of speed.

Most residential customers have lower uploads. And really, the only reason to get into the 100mpbs upload range is if you're running a web server or some sort of distributed content. No single use app will ever use that. If you have 2 people on HD zoom calls and 2-3 people playing Call of Duty, you might see your up speed start to struggle on a residential, 20mbps up type package.

Beyond all that, most times people don't know (or care) what they're doing. Most people's internet experience is limited by their shoddy home network. Most people would be better served getting hardwiring throughout their house than getting more cowbell... err more internet speed.
I have TBs of media that I’d love to backup to the cloud. It’s not practical for me to do that with 10Mbps. I want faster upload speeds. I also can stream at 4K with my current Internet upload.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by sureshoe »

rockstar wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:54 pm
sureshoe wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:25 pm There are 2 types of internet speed: Down and Up.

Most people have "high download" simply because it's cheap to get into ridiculously high numbers that most people can't begin to use. If you have 300+ mbps, you could actively be streaming multiple HD movies. Torrents are about the only reason to have down speeds over 100mbps because the vast majority of servers can't even service that level of speed.

Most residential customers have lower uploads. And really, the only reason to get into the 100mpbs upload range is if you're running a web server or some sort of distributed content. No single use app will ever use that. If you have 2 people on HD zoom calls and 2-3 people playing Call of Duty, you might see your up speed start to struggle on a residential, 20mbps up type package.

Beyond all that, most times people don't know (or care) what they're doing. Most people's internet experience is limited by their shoddy home network. Most people would be better served getting hardwiring throughout their house than getting more cowbell... err more internet speed.
I have TBs of media that I’d love to backup to the cloud. It’s not practical for me to do that with 10Mbps. I want faster upload speeds. I also can stream at 4K with my current Internet upload.
If we are talking about someone who is frequently ripping movies or creating content that is huge, sure. But even a 4k movie rip is only 50GB. Sure, it might take a day to upload it... but how often are people ripping movies? If you have TBs of data you're backing up on a regular, sure. Anyway, people can do whatever they want - if you have a special use case, sure. But in the vast majority of cases, few people need more than 20mbps up unless they're torrenting or running a web service or business or whatever.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by andypanda »

"For those who have high speed internet, such as 500Mbs or gigabyte, what do you do that requires such speed? "

All we can get is Xfinity out here in the woods. The gigabyte plan was the least expensive.

Right now, on wifi, I'm only showing 681 down and 41 up on speed test with 22 sec latency on my 17" HP cheap daily-use laptop. Well, it does have SSD and HDD, but it was still pretty cheap.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

jayjayc wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:55 pm
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow, that's a fantastic deal!
Let me guess; not US based?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by SmileyFace »

quantAndHold wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:11 am
Chuckles960 wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:47 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:45 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:39 pm I agree that almost no one needs it. Stable 25Mb/s service is fine for most people. Web page response is determined by the weakest link, which is usually at the web server end. If you are using wifi, that is also a weak link (limiting factor for speed), especially if not in the same room as the router.
Any wifi router purchased in the last decade is rated for at least 600Mbps, and can run laps around 25Mbps. The router that came with my modem could do 2Gbps actual, if I had 2 gigabits to put through the pipe.
Rated yes, actual no. Also 5G wifi slows sharply if going through walls, assuming you can connect at all, and 2G wifi slows down significantly also.

It is of course true that wifi is not a limiting factor if internet is 25Mb/s. But it is frequently the limiting factor if you have several hundred Mb/s internet.
Rated 10Gbps, actual, 2Gbps. You are correct that 15 year old wifi is inadequate for current broadband, but that’s not where we’ve been for awhile. This is my phone connected to my wifi. I have 500 Mbps service. The wifi seems adequate.

Image
My numbers are similar but my latency numbers are 6ms and 7ms (mine are always single digits - yours are double digits at 25 and 27ms). Your numbers still good though - if there were three digits (what I used to see before going to 1Gbps) I would start to get concerned with jittery video calls, gaming issues, etc. This could be you device too however, latency measure from a PC might provide single digits.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by quantAndHold »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:48 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:11 am
Chuckles960 wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:47 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:45 pm
Chuckles960 wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:39 pm I agree that almost no one needs it. Stable 25Mb/s service is fine for most people. Web page response is determined by the weakest link, which is usually at the web server end. If you are using wifi, that is also a weak link (limiting factor for speed), especially if not in the same room as the router.
Any wifi router purchased in the last decade is rated for at least 600Mbps, and can run laps around 25Mbps. The router that came with my modem could do 2Gbps actual, if I had 2 gigabits to put through the pipe.
Rated yes, actual no. Also 5G wifi slows sharply if going through walls, assuming you can connect at all, and 2G wifi slows down significantly also.

It is of course true that wifi is not a limiting factor if internet is 25Mb/s. But it is frequently the limiting factor if you have several hundred Mb/s internet.
Rated 10Gbps, actual, 2Gbps. You are correct that 15 year old wifi is inadequate for current broadband, but that’s not where we’ve been for awhile. This is my phone connected to my wifi. I have 500 Mbps service. The wifi seems adequate.

Image
My numbers are similar but my latency numbers are 6ms and 7ms (mine are always single digits - yours are double digits at 25 and 27ms). Your numbers still good though - if there were three digits (what I used to see before going to 1Gbps) I would start to get concerned with jittery video calls, gaming issues, etc. This could be you device too however, latency measure from a PC might provide single digits.
You’re correct. This was a quickie check with an iPhone. I’m seeing 5ms ping times on my laptop.

Even going through several walls, I’m getting 400 down/up.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by HawkeyePierce »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:42 pm
jayjayc wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:55 pm
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow, that's a fantastic deal!
Let me guess; not US based?
That's available in some parts of the US. Sonic.net offers it in parts of California for about that price.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by abracadabra11 »

mrspock wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:33 pm “Serious” in Silicon Valley these days means 10gig ethernet over copper or fiber, w/ with at least Ubiquity or better network gear. :) But I hear you.

Some even double up their internet connections.
I didn't care to mention my 42U rack and associated network gear for the homelab. It's too much for BHs to handle.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by quantAndHold »

abracadabra11 wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:59 pm
mrspock wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:33 pm “Serious” in Silicon Valley these days means 10gig ethernet over copper or fiber, w/ with at least Ubiquity or better network gear. :) But I hear you.

Some even double up their internet connections.
I didn't care to mention my 42U rack and associated network gear for the homelab. It's too much for BHs to handle.
When the kids were in high school, we had to double up our internet. One for them, one for me. 2 of them were techies, and they had a full height rack in the basement that was filled with their eBay finds. I guess it paid off. They’re both working for big tech now.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by rob »

rockstar wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:54 pm I have TBs of media that I’d love to backup to the cloud. It’s not practical for me to do that with 10Mbps. I want faster upload speeds. I also can stream at 4K with my current Internet upload.
It's not practical for most cloud backup providers anyway... Most limit the capture "speed".... Even backblaze could not use my bandwidth for uploads when I tried (and the others just limited uploads full stop). It would need me to drop it directly into s3/glacier or alike and I went a different path.
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Cosmo
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Cosmo »

onourway wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:01 pm Having a lot of overhead makes a shared network a lot more reliable. Sure, most people don't use even anywhere near 50Mbps sustained, but a typical multi-user household is probably doing a lot of conferencing, gaming activities, etc. that are bandwidth light, but time sensitive. If other users/devices on the network are performing bandwidth heavy, time-insensitive activities (downloading updates, cloud sync, etc) you need one of two things, really good QOS on your router, and/or, a whole bunch of extra headroom. Most people don't have good QOS which is processor intensive and historically difficult to configure. It's much easier just to keep everyone's pipe a bit bigger than they really need in order to ensure a good user experience.
Regarding, QoS, many of the newer routers these days automatically configure it for you after asking you a few questions.
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Stef
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Stef »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:42 pm
jayjayc wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:55 pm
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow, that's a fantastic deal!
Let me guess; not US based?
Yes it‘s in Switzerland. 10 Gbits internet is basically available everywhere, nowadays even in small towns (I live in a town with a population of 9‘000 people). You can get 1 Gbits Download/Upload for 30-45$/month.
sureshoe wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:28 pm That is some serious industrial strength s#@!t. Most commercial organizations with under 100 people don't have that kind of network.

To my other point, sometimes this is more about nerd-fantasy-fulfillment than actual need :) And no offense meant, I'm actively running wires to AVRs just because I don't like seeing wireless indicators on my network...
Exactly. I could save 30$/month and just get 1 Gbits instead of 10 Gbits, but I just love having that speed. It‘s like driving a very fast car. In your day to day business it will bring you from A to B like any other car, but sometimes it will feel just great.
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AerialWombat
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by AerialWombat »

Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow! I pay that for 20Mbps down, 1.5 up. It’s my only option out here in the sticks. Ran a Zoom-heavy business on it with no issues, though.

The worst part is that the regional fiber optic trunk line runs right in front of my property, but I can’t get a tap. A mere kilometer up the road and I could.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Stef wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:13 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:42 pm
jayjayc wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:55 pm
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow, that's a fantastic deal!
Let me guess; not US based?
Yes it‘s in Switzerland. 10 Gbits internet is basically available everywhere, nowadays even in small towns (I live in a town with a population of 9‘000 people). You can get 1 Gbits Download/Upload for 30-45$/month.
I admit that I was tipped off by your avatar and the knowledge that the US is far behind in providing inexpensive and quality internet service.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
2Scoops
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by 2Scoops »

Just sharing my experiences:

Initially had 75/75 using the provider's router and was only getting about 50/50. Bought my own mesh system and immediately got 100/100. Never had any issues with about a million connected devices, child constantly streaming, two WFH parents, multiple tv's running, etc. 75/75 was more than enough. Believe I was paying around $65/month. This seems to be more than enough speed for even the most demanding households.

Eventually had to call the provider for an issue and they put me in a 1-year promotion with 300/300 speeds for $45/month. Still using my own router.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by OpenMinded1 »

AerialWombat wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:20 am
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow! I pay that for 20Mbps down, 1.5 up. It’s my only option out here in the sticks. Ran a Zoom-heavy business on it with no issues, though.

The worst part is that the regional fiber optic trunk line runs right in front of my property, but I can’t get a tap. A mere kilometer up the road and I could.
That's the "deal" I get also - 20Mbps down, 1.5 up, $77 - except I'm not out in the sticks. I live on the edge of a small US city. There are options from other companies just a few hundred feet away inside the official boundary of the city.
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riverant
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by riverant »

I have fiber and originally started at 300/300 for $75 a month. Every couple years they upgrade our speed, but keep the same price. I then go on the website and see they now offer my prior speed for a lower price and “downgrade”. I’m now paying $39.99 for 300/300 and have never noticed slower speeds than I’d like.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by chazas »

I downgraded from gigabit to 300/300 when I cut the cord several months ago. Not only do I not miss it, I’m annoyed at myself for spending the extra money for so long. The cost was buried in a package with cable and phone, which had jumped to more than $200. After discounts current internet is $35.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by andypanda »

"and the knowledge that the US is far behind in providing inexpensive and quality internet service."

We will catch up eventually. It's a long, long way from sea to shining sea.


"United States is about 238 times bigger than Switzerland"

Or, "Switzerland is nearly the size of Vermont and New Hampshire combined."
money2churn
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by money2churn »

I get 40/3 DSL for $50 on outskirts of medium sized city. It's reliable which is all I really care about. Wouldn't pay a dime more for faster speeds which would rarely be used.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by quantAndHold »

AerialWombat wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:20 am
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow! I pay that for 20Mbps down, 1.5 up. It’s my only option out here in the sticks. Ran a Zoom-heavy business on it with no issues, though.
Your customers would notice Zoom issues more than you would. 20Mbps is plenty. 1.5 would be interesting to be on the other side of.
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AerialWombat
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by AerialWombat »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:40 am
AerialWombat wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:20 am
Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.
Wow! I pay that for 20Mbps down, 1.5 up. It’s my only option out here in the sticks. Ran a Zoom-heavy business on it with no issues, though.
Your customers would notice Zoom issues more than you would. 20Mbps is plenty. 1.5 would be interesting to be on the other side of.
Nope, never an issue. My camera off, and running slides doesn’t take much upload bandwidth. When running camera, turn off HD mode. Easy-peasy, no complaints, cloud recordings come out fine.

It was a little annoying having to remember to do those tweaks, but it worked. Just have to manage the resources you have.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Marjimmy »

Just leased a townhouse in upper NY which gives you a homephone/trash removal/internet and basic cable for $85/month.

Internet is 100mps. I'm a heavy gamer / streamer but it should suffice.... I guess if I want to upgrade, I have to contact Spectrum directly.

*shrug*
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Northern Flicker »

White Coat Investor wrote: I defer to your expertise. All I know is when we switched from a very good plan to the best plan and plugged directly into the wall, a lot of our problems went away. Whether that better plan improved latency and speed or just one of the two I have no idea. But the problem went away by throwing money at it.
Without knowing your specifics, I'll just say that if you had a very good plan, converting from WiFi to Ethernet wire (plugging directly into the wall) was most likely what addressed the problems you were having.
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HotRod140
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by HotRod140 »

my homeowners assoc. just negotiated a new 5 yr contract with our cable company. Part of the new package included an internet speed upgrade from 100 to 400. I couldn't tell the difference if you paid me.
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Kenster1
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Kenster1 »

MtnTravel wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:21 pm I’ve found that 100mbps is the sweet spot. The biggest difference we noticed with fiber optic was having symmetrical upload and download speeds. Huge difference on zoom calls. Comcast has fast download speeds but their upload speeds are embarrassing. Plus on old cable systems, depending on how it’s designed, the more people using it in your area, the slower it becomes.
Yup so Comcast is rolling out upload speed upgrades across the country starting with 100 / 200 Mbps. I used to get only 25 Mbps max upload speeds with Comcast/Xfinity but just couple of weeks ago it went to 100-115 Mbps upload speeds. At the same time - they are staggering another upgrade to support multi-gig upload speeds.
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Northern Flicker wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:44 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: I defer to your expertise. All I know is when we switched from a very good plan to the best plan and plugged directly into the wall, a lot of our problems went away. Whether that better plan improved latency and speed or just one of the two I have no idea. But the problem went away by throwing money at it.
Without knowing your specifics, I'll just say that if you had a very good plan, converting from WiFi to Ethernet wire (plugging directly into the wall) was most likely what addressed the problems you were having.
Yea, it was one of those things where I just got sick of it and said "We're losing far more money on staff expenses than whatever they're going to charge us for the best internet we can buy."
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by student »

Stef wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:37 am I have 10 Gbits Download and 10 Gbits Upload for 75$/month.

No real use case though. All rooms are linked with Cat 7 cables and my PC has a 10 Gbits network card, but 0.5GB/sec was the fastest download I got so far on platforms like Steam.

Wifi 6 gets me up to 700 Mbits Download/Upload, which is nice. Especially the upload rate which lets me backup my iPhone 14 Pro Max photos (48MP, 75MB per photo) pretty fast.
Wow. That's good price.
pseudoiterative
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by pseudoiterative »

deikel wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:38 pm The current push to bring fastest internet to the boonies is a way to subsidize the internet providers in rural areas - it's an absolute scam, a simply good internet would do it just fine - waste of tax payers dollars and no one even questions it.

[...]

I think people get scammed with high prices for not even needed bandwidth.
When you're thinking about wired internet costs, there are two very different parts:

1. the cost to install the physical connection. this means digging trenches or negotiating/leasing access to existing poles along which you can run your cables and attach your equipment. the specifics of the equipment and cables vary as technology advances, but the majority of the cost here is the construction cost along the physical path that will hold the cable and the equipment, not the cost of the equipment or cables itself
2. the cost to purchase and resell bandwidth, provide customer service, and maintain the connection, once the physical connection is already in place

Suppose there's a cluster of houses that have never had wired internet, and there's funding (either private or government subsidies or a mix) to dig the trenches and run cables. There's basically no difference in the up front cost to install connections that can give everyone 1000 gbps vs installing connections that only support 1/100th of the bandwidth.

The main driver of cost for rolling out wired internet is density. If you're in an urban area and there's 10 meters of street frontage for each house, then you need to dig 10 meters to run cable past each potential subscriber. If you're in a semi-rural area and there's 100 meters of street frontage for each house, then you need to dig 100 meters to run cable past each potential subscriber, so the construction cost of building a network is roughly 10x an urban area, with no increase in subscription revenue. Subsidies can potentially help here as there's a density threshold beneath which it doesn't make commercial sense for a for-profit company to construct wired connections, as they need to dig too far when passing each potential subscriber.

I suspect people are often paying for much more bandwidth than they actually need. But if the network has been recently built (in the last decade, say) the bulk of those monthly subscription fees will be used to pay off the big initial capital investment required to construct the infrastructure in the first place.
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unclescrooge
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by unclescrooge »

White Coat Investor wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:27 pm
exodusing wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:04 pm For those who have high speed internet, such as 500Mbs or gigabyte, what do you do that requires such speed? The most bandwidth I see for typical use is 25Mbs for 4k video, so four simultaneous streams would only need a 100Mbs connection. Web browsing, social media, email, etc. only use a small amount of bandwidth. Gaming seems to require low latency more than bandwidth. I suppose some people regularly move massive files over the internet, but I'd think that would be rare.
Podcast interviews. That's our biggest need for the highest possible speed. Plug directly in too. Ever listened to a podcast with a delay between the host and guest? It's just as miserable to record it as listen to it.
The pocketcast app I use trims all the white space in the podcast, so I've never noticed.
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unclescrooge
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by unclescrooge »

I just downgraded my 300 MB/s $70/mo spectrum internet to 200MB/s $25/mo Verizon 5G.

We sometimes have two TVs streaming and a zoom call at peak usage.

So far haven't noticed any issues.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by White Coat Investor »

unclescrooge wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:48 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:27 pm
exodusing wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:04 pm For those who have high speed internet, such as 500Mbs or gigabyte, what do you do that requires such speed? The most bandwidth I see for typical use is 25Mbs for 4k video, so four simultaneous streams would only need a 100Mbs connection. Web browsing, social media, email, etc. only use a small amount of bandwidth. Gaming seems to require low latency more than bandwidth. I suppose some people regularly move massive files over the internet, but I'd think that would be rare.
Podcast interviews. That's our biggest need for the highest possible speed. Plug directly in too. Ever listened to a podcast with a delay between the host and guest? It's just as miserable to record it as listen to it.
The pocketcast app I use trims all the white space in the podcast, so I've never noticed.
It's not white space when you're talking over each other.
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teamDE
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by teamDE »

I have gigabit FIOS which I normally clock at around 950mbps down and 800mpbs up. I have many hardwired devices including my gaming PC, my desk where laptops are docked, PS5, NAS, etc. Do I use it every day? no. But do I enjoy ripping down 150gb PS5 games at 100mB/s? yes I do. I also do some music production stuff and libraries can be quite large. I also do backups to remote servers.

It mostly comes down to patience. If I had 15mps internet my life would probably come to a crashing halt. Sadly. :beer

Oh and it's only $79.99 a month.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by White Coat Investor »

teamDE wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:16 pm I have gigabit FIOS which I normally clock at around 950mbps down and 800mpbs up. I have many hardwired devices including my gaming PC, my desk where laptops are docked, PS5, NAS, etc. Do I use it every day? no. But do I enjoy ripping down 150gb PS5 games at 100mB/s? yes I do. I also do some music production stuff and libraries can be quite large. I also do backups to remote servers.

It mostly comes down to patience. If I had 15mps internet my life would probably come to a crashing halt. Sadly. :beer

Oh and it's only $79.99 a month.
Most Bogleheads are going to die with way too much money. Faster internet is one way to turn money into time!

Just did a speedtest. 935 down and 41 up. Pings are 12, 26, 17. That's as good as it gets where my house is. A luxury? Sure. Can I afford it? Absolutely. Especially since I get to buy it with pretax dollars!

If I unplug the computer and use WiFi way up in the corner office it drops to 155 down, 41 up and pings of 18, 23, and 32.

I find it fascinating that my up is exactly the same on WiFi.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
TheDDC
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by TheDDC »

White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:47 pm
teamDE wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:16 pm I have gigabit FIOS which I normally clock at around 950mbps down and 800mpbs up. I have many hardwired devices including my gaming PC, my desk where laptops are docked, PS5, NAS, etc. Do I use it every day? no. But do I enjoy ripping down 150gb PS5 games at 100mB/s? yes I do. I also do some music production stuff and libraries can be quite large. I also do backups to remote servers.

It mostly comes down to patience. If I had 15mps internet my life would probably come to a crashing halt. Sadly. :beer

Oh and it's only $79.99 a month.
Most Bogleheads are going to die with way too much money. Faster internet is one way to turn money into time!

Just did a speedtest. 935 down and 41 up. Pings are 12, 26, 17. That's as good as it gets where my house is. A luxury? Sure. Can I afford it? Absolutely. Especially since I get to buy it with pretax dollars!

If I unplug the computer and use WiFi way up in the corner office it drops to 155 down, 41 up and pings of 18, 23, and 32.

I find it fascinating that my up is exactly the same on WiFi.
Correct. Since your internet provider caps you at 40 Mbps upstream capacity you are not transmitting enough data to hit the theoretical limits of the PHY rate you are being dropped down to due to noise/quality. As long as you do not have a symmetric connection (as one would have on a FTTH service like FiOS) your upstream speed would remain the same even with poor signal strength impacting the max PHY rate. What you will notice would be the increased latency and/or retransmits due to poor communication between your laptop radio and the radio in the wireless access point the further you are or (more likely) the more objects such as walls and ceilings are in your linear path.

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Chuckles960
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by Chuckles960 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:47 pm ...Just did a speedtest. 935 down and 41 up. Pings are 12, 26, 17. That's as good as it gets where my house is. A luxury? Sure. Can I afford it? Absolutely. Especially since I get to buy it with pretax dollars!

If I unplug the computer and use WiFi way up in the corner office it drops to 155 down, 41 up and pings of 18, 23, and 32.

I find it fascinating that my up is exactly the same on WiFi.
"Fascinating?" It is obvious. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by quantAndHold »

Chuckles960 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:46 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:47 pm ...Just did a speedtest. 935 down and 41 up. Pings are 12, 26, 17. That's as good as it gets where my house is. A luxury? Sure. Can I afford it? Absolutely. Especially since I get to buy it with pretax dollars!

If I unplug the computer and use WiFi way up in the corner office it drops to 155 down, 41 up and pings of 18, 23, and 32.

I find it fascinating that my up is exactly the same on WiFi.
"Fascinating?" It is obvious. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
But I thought that wifi is always the weakest link.
bwalling
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by bwalling »

Near as I can tell from running speedtests and other diagnostics, Spectrum deliberately cripples streaming video on lower tiers. You can download large files just fine (say, the whole Windows installer or something else bigger than a TV show). But, try to stream, and it will buffer and degrade quality.

Call them to complain, and they'll tell you your service tier is too low even though it's 8x the speed needed to stream 4k video.

I've given up and just paid for the higher tier.
mancich
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by mancich »

FIOS gigabit family here. DW and I both work from home, 3 daughters on multiple devices. Multiple streaming to various TV's going on at once. It is not the cheapest option but I don't care. Also have a NetGear Orbi mesh system. This is one of those areas in life where I don't mind paying up. I don't want any hassles with my internet speed or reliability. We used to have Optimum (cable provider in our area). They were terrible, with constant outages, dropped conference calls, etc. They came to the house multiple times and couldn't fix the problem, so I switched to FIOS. Our internet never goes out unless there is a power outage. FIOS' reliability in our area is rock solid. Never going back to cable.
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hand
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by hand »

Marketing based on speed (bandwidth) is a hoax for most users, but persists because it causes consumers to pay more for capacity they are unlikely to use (and even better capacity which can then be resold to others multiple times).

Reliability, latency (low ping) and cost are the meaningful metrics for most users.
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FrugalProfessor
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by FrugalProfessor »

hand wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:31 am Marketing based on speed (bandwidth) is a hoax for most users, but persists because it causes consumers to pay more for capacity they are unlikely to use (and even better capacity which can then be resold to others multiple times).

Reliability, latency (low ping) and cost are the meaningful metrics for most users.
+1. A decade ago, I had 2mbps internet for about 5 years. It was perfectly functional. Then, they did away with the plan and I was forced to upgrade to 50mpbs (interestingly, in my ISPs website, they intentionally hide the lowest-tier 50mpbs from consumers). I'm a long-time user of Google routers and they give real-time consumption statistics. 4k streaming is obviously data intensive; about 20 mbps. So my current 50mbps plan can support 2 concurrent 4k streams, or about 12 concurrent 1080 streams (including Zoom). Paying for any capacity above one's peak real-world usage is an obvious waste of money and a huge scam propagated by greedy ISPs who are incentivized to confuse naive consumers.
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teamDE
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Re: Why very high speed internet?

Post by teamDE »

mancich wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:29 am FIOS gigabit family here. DW and I both work from home, 3 daughters on multiple devices. Multiple streaming to various TV's going on at once. It is not the cheapest option but I don't care. Also have a NetGear Orbi mesh system. This is one of those areas in life where I don't mind paying up. I don't want any hassles with my internet speed or reliability. We used to have Optimum (cable provider in our area). They were terrible, with constant outages, dropped conference calls, etc. They came to the house multiple times and couldn't fix the problem, so I switched to FIOS. Our internet never goes out unless there is a power outage. FIOS' reliability in our area is rock solid. Never going back to cable.
Ha, I didn't mention reliability initially because it didn't occur to me. I've had FIOS for six years and it's never gone out. And we both work from home. I'm also very pleased that my bill is exactly $79.99 with no extra fees or taxes and it hasn't changed in those six years.
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