Dipping my toes in EV? Tesla 3/Y Questions!

[StewedCarrot]

OP,

Just rent one. Drive it to your heart's content for a week.

• It's a lousy car for gear heads, nothing under the hood to modify.

• It's a lousy car for apartment dwellers without a garage. You have to think about recharging.

• It has a crummy touchscreen interface which requires looking away from the road to use.

• Paying extra depreciation and insurance for a sometime car is wasteful for someone early in life.

• Feel good you're likely freeing battery manufacturing capacity for someone who'll drive and use it daily.

[bwalling]

Note that insurance for Teslas are higher than other similar vehicles.

We have four cars. The Tesla is the second cheapest to insure, though it was the second most expensive to buy. The only one that costs less to insure is a 2014 Outback.

Just go on your insurance company's website, login, and look at the changes to your policy if you added one. Most of them will let you do that.

[mpnret]

OP,

• It's a lousy car for apartment dwellers without a garage. You have to think about recharging.

• It has a crummy touchscreen interface which requires looking away from the road to use.

The OP you are responding to has a garage with a free outlet.
The crummy touch screen you are referring to is voice controlled. It's one of the car's many neat features. I find saying things like turn up radio volume, turn up/down temp or navigate to xxx location much less distracting than actually having to do it in my ICE car. Also speed is large in upper left hand corner of screen. My eyes don't have to leave the road to view it like on my ICE car.

[SpaghettiLegs]

It’s been discussed in other threads but I wouldn’t own an EV if my only home charging option was a 120v outlet. The calculus may change if you’re using backup ICE vehicles but you’ll find on a cold day you’ll blow through an entire night’s charge just driving around the neighborhood and you’ll find yourself not driving the EV just because you want it to charge more.

3. If its not your only car, 120V wall charging absolutely fine. Yes you can leave it always plugged in. Software prevents car from sitting at maximum state of charge (which is bad for all lithium batteries in all devices).

Strong disagree on this. It's painfully slow, and it winds up offsetting a huge EV benefit - not having to go buy gas (or go to a public charger). If you happen to get the Tesla down to near zero from some combination of trips, you're looking at 100 hours (4 days) to charge it back up vs 4 hours.

As someone who has driven EVs for 9 years with just 120V charging at home, I would strongly disagree with both of you for many use cases. Certainly, there are use cases where it would be problematic. With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day. Depending on how low the battery is (it charges faster the more drained it is), we typically get ~50-55 miles for 10 hours of charge overnight. We typically drive 200-250 miles per week (~12k miles per year). You're probably at 15k+ before you need an L2 charger at home or charging at work or someplace you else you are regularly.

Ah, well I guess I stand corrected then. I had based my comment on my experience with the Model S (2013-2022) , Model Y for past 6 months. Most of my 120V charging was on road trips where I would get 2-4 miles/hr and would often get a tripped breaker on 15a circuits. I do recognize the mile/hr rate is higher on the 3/Y with lighter weight/higher efficiency. In the days before there were chargers everywhere, I developed an aversion to 120v charging, used RV parks and dryer outlets quite a bit.

[bwalling]

OP,

• It's a lousy car for apartment dwellers without a garage. You have to think about recharging.

• It has a crummy touchscreen interface which requires looking away from the road to use.

The OP you are responding to has a garage with a free outlet.
The crummy touch screen you are referring to is voice controlled. It's one of the car's many neat features. I find saying things like turn up radio volume, turn up/down temp or navigate to xxx location much less distracting than actually having to do it in my ICE car. Also speed is large in upper left hand corner of screen. My eyes don't have to leave the road to view it like on my ICE car.

There is a very common aversion to touch interfaces in cars. Some people strongly prefer buttons and knobs. I am with you, the controls in the Tesla are actually easier than in most other cars I've owned. Like any car, you have to get used to where things are.

Touch screens and voice control are like self checkout. A good implementation is great and everyone is happy. A bad implementation is awful, and everyone hates it. Costco's works great. Kroger opted to program theirs to tell customers they'd be better off shopping elsewhere.

[eric321]

With 2 other cars that you have for road trips, I'd focus on a smaller car with a smaller (less costlier) battery for road trips.

There is a new tax credit for used EVs and some of those might be more frugal. Used car prices are coming down quickly.

To dip your toes into an EV space, also consider a plug-in hybrid. Get power from the 120v outlet when you can, use gas if you need. I'd recommend a second generation Chevrolet volt (2016 and later), as these are often overlooked but come with the used ev rebate.

Most EV batteries are designed for a 10 year shelf life. 10 years ago there were very few EVs but you are starting to see batteries fail. The depreciation curve is likely going to be steep so if this is an extra car, I'd look for ways to keep the total cost down.

[hunoraut]

There is a very common aversion to touch interfaces in cars. Some people strongly prefer buttons and knobs. I am with you, the controls in the Tesla are actually easier than in most other cars I've owned. Like any car, you have to get used to where things are.

Touch screens and voice control are like self checkout. A good implementation is great and everyone is happy. A bad implementation is awful, and everyone hates it. Costco's works great. Kroger opted to program theirs to tell customers they'd be better off shopping elsewhere.

This is exactly right. In principle, i prefer things analog and physical. In actual use, what ends up better is a function of design and performance.

It was the story when I had a blackberry, and thought how could an iphone with all-glass face beat the usability with my *real* keyboard with tactility and great clickiness. Software and engineering was how.

I had BMW iDrive which was widely lauded as the best in-car entertainment system. And at that point indeed I’d never experienced anything better. The most common interfacing I do with the car - using the nav and media system - it just gets trounced by Tesla for speed and effectiveness.

[GT99]

With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

[Valuethinker]

With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

[eyedrop]

We definitely don't need a new car, we have 2 that work just well and we like. But I am a bit of a gearhead and I've been wanting to try out an EV for the last couple of years. With the limited time 7500 tax credit available on Tesla 3/Y, I am wondering if now is the time to try it out. A couple of questions for those that may own either of these cars or other EVs:

(1) 3 vs Y : I am leaning towards getting the cheapest Model 3 possible. We don't really want to sell our two current (and paid off) cars (Acura MDX and RDX) as they probably have lots of life left and I like V6 engines and those are getting harder to find as time goes on. It IS silly since we could almost get by with just 1 car but contemplating getting a 3rd. But I want to try out an EV, so it seems like the Model 3 is the way to go, right? We do prefer SUVs, but doesn't seem like any reason to add a 3rd with the Y. I also figure if I really love EV driving I could later just sell the Model 3 and RDX and at that point get into a Model Y or E-Tron or whatever. But if anyone can provide a compelling reason I should consider the Y now (safety with the larger car?), I'm open to it. I won't have to sell any car to afford either, so either would be a 3rd vehicle.

(2) Telsa vs the rest : I feel like a Tesla (esp a Model 3) is the no-brainer pick for someone like me who wants their first EV. The recent price drop + fed tax credit makes it quite affordable, and the Supercharger network seems much more extensive than others. Also tons more of them out there than any other EV (I have relatives that own Teslas) so seems easier to get advanced word on any issues, parts, etc... But if anyone disagrees and things there are others I should look at, let me know. I"m particularly interested in Audi and Hyundai's offerings, but I think those don't qualify for the fed tax credit?

(3) Living with an EV in an apartment : We are apartment dwellers. Concerned about charging. That being said there are quite a bit of EVs (mostly Teslas) in our complex. Our common garage has a bunch of wall outlets and I see owners plug their cars in there overnight, though there aren't any dedicated Tesla wall chargers and we are not allowed to install them. Caveat is LL hasn't stopped anyone from charging their cars, but I guess they could in the future? As of now it's "free" charging, albeit slow. But we don't drive everyday of the week, so I could feasibly leave the car plugged in for 24+ hours, although not sure if that's good for the battery. I also live within a mile of Superchargers and also an Electrify America station. But still, any difficulties owning EV in an apartment?

1. If your gonna go Tesla, the 3 is their most refined car that feels closest to the big autos in terms of how mature and complete it feels. The Y is a rattletrap with lots of reported issues, harsh ride quality. Oh and its a crossover yuck! The S is even worse refinement despite being launched in 2012. These are fun beta cars with bleeding edge tech that breaks and is not friendly to repair out of warranty. Not the kind of car you wanna keep for 10-15 years unless you wanna dump tons of service center time and money (unlike your acura).

If you can, drive the cars you have until the wheels fall off or it cost more to fix than its worth. You can always rent a Turo for now to get your main fill. It only takes a few thousand miles until your basically bored and the new car becomes normal feeling.

2. I sold my Model S for a Bolt EV and Leaf Plus and they have been 10x more reliable. No constant 12v batteries changes, no door handles broken, no wind noise (occasional rattles) no rain dance or app needed to get the car unlocked. No gimicks like tesla and intuitive to use cause its a combo of touchscreen interface that never changes and physical knobs, whre you dont have to take you eyes off the road. The cars workhorses. You can slam the doors without breaking a window regulator and have instant torque. 0-60 in 6.2 sec for a little hot hatch under 30k aint bad. We put a hitch on it for local dump and furniture runs.

3. If you live in an apartment, get a traditional Hybrid. Not PHEV. Not EV. You do not want to rely on public charging especially paying for DC fast charging daily. And the amount of wait time... I work for one of the companies that provides maintenance for them and the proximity latches on these plugs are very probe to damage, knocking far too many out of service. In europe, they use a connector without a latch. Tesla also uses no latch and the plug is far superior to non tesla. But the charge porta on the cars break all the time ( unlike non tesla). Went through 2 on my S. I use my J1772 with the bolt and leaf at home every day and its fine because i go to sleep and wake up charged ( speed is not an issue because i drive less than 200 miles a day). I am nice to the plug and dont drop it on the ground. And i only road trip 1-2 times a year out of state, where there are many non tesla DC fast chargers to choose from. More convenient in that way then Tesla. But on the daily, you really want a garage or a nice condition charger for an EV. There are some amazing hybrids out there like the new Prius. Hybrids are usually ranked at the top for reliability as well.

[GT99]

With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

[cmr79]

With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

VW ID.8 or Volvo EX90?

[smitcat]

With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

+1
$350 - I could picture an existing breaker box in the garage with enough capacity and with existing open breaker slots where you want the charger.
$2K-$5K - then again it could be 100" away, requiring a larger incoming service and panel box, and a long difficult run.

[neilpilot]

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

+1
$350 - I could picture an existing breaker box in the garage with enough capacity and with existing open breaker slots where you want the charger.
$2K-$5K - then again it could be 100" away, requiring a larger incoming service and panel box, and a long difficult run.

If your breaker box isn't handy (ours is clear on the opposite side of the house), it's sometimes permissible to share an existing 240v circuit. In my case , we had a 2 pole toggle switch installed in our laundry room, that shares a wall with the garage. Normally our dryer is switched on. Then once every 6-10 days our EV is charged, usually overnight. The UL-listed switch, rated for 30amp, cost under $45.

[smitcat]

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

+1
$350 - I could picture an existing breaker box in the garage with enough capacity and with existing open breaker slots where you want the charger.
$2K-$5K - then again it could be 100" away, requiring a larger incoming service and panel box, and a long difficult run.

If your breaker box isn't handy (ours is clear on the opposite side of the house), it's sometimes permissible to share an existing 240v circuit. In my case , we had a 2 pole toggle switch installed in our laundry room, that shares a wall with the garage. Normally our dryer is switched on. Then once every 6-10 days our EV is charged, usually overnight. The UL-listed switch, rated for 30amp, cost under $45.

In some areas possible - but you are limited to 30 amp dryer lines and hence 24 amps charging.
We wanted to go with at least 50 amps lines for 40 amp charging and no line sharing,

[neilpilot]

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

+1
$350 - I could picture an existing breaker box in the garage with enough capacity and with existing open breaker slots where you want the charger.
$2K-$5K - then again it could be 100" away, requiring a larger incoming service and panel box, and a long difficult run.

If your breaker box isn't handy (ours is clear on the opposite side of the house), it's sometimes permissible to share an existing 240v circuit. In my case , we had a 2 pole toggle switch installed in our laundry room, that shares a wall with the garage. Normally our dryer is switched on. Then once every 6-10 days our EV is charged, usually overnight. The UL-listed switch, rated for 30amp, cost under $45.

In some areas possible - but you are limited to 30 amp dryer lines and hence 24 amps charging.
We wanted to go with at least 50 amps lines for 40 amp charging and no line sharing,

Great - I posted this as an option for those considering the alternatives. I my case, I can fully charge from ~20% to 80% using a 26amp charger (I know I'm cheating by 2amps!) overnite, so a 40-50amp circuit would be overkill. A shared circuit isn't an issue for me, since we never run our dryer overnite in any case. I was able to add the circuit DIY for under $100.

[teamDE]

(2) Telsa vs the rest : I feel like a Tesla (esp a Model 3) is the no-brainer pick for someone like me who wants their first EV. The recent price drop + fed tax credit makes it quite affordable, and the Supercharger network seems much more extensive than others. Also tons more of them out there than any other EV (I have relatives that own Teslas) so seems easier to get advanced word on any issues, parts, etc... But if anyone disagrees and things there are others I should look at, let me know. I"m particularly interested in Audi and Hyundai's offerings, but I think those don't qualify for the fed tax credit?

See this for the cars that qualify

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/ ... 3-or-after

There is one Audi that qualifies. No Hyundai/Kia yet.

Personally, I'm thinking of a Mustang Mach-E or the Chevy Bolt EUV. Both are SUVs, but the Bolt EV model is a regular EV.

Thanks, this is helpful. Should not have shown my wife this, now she wants the BMW 330e. Seems like after tax credit it will be slightly more expensive than a Model 3. It's a PHEV though, and I wanted to go full EV.

fwiw, we've had a 2021 X3 PHEV for two years now and its been great. You can run it in full electric mode, hybrid mode, or sport mode which combines both motors together. For our use in a fairly dense metro area, we're almost always on electric power. We've taken a few 800mile'ish road trip and the gas was handy.

There's no question that I want a full BEV next, but I'm not interested in Tesla and am waiting a couple years for more options to develop. The PHEV solution has worked well, though.

[RJC]

Once you feel the EV torque, there's no going back.

The 3 is probably the more refined car; however, there's limited room in the rear seats/trunk. It's also a bit too low for daily driving.

[alfaspider]

OP,

Just rent one. Drive it to your heart's content for a week.

• It's a lousy car for gear heads, nothing under the hood to modify.

• It's a lousy car for apartment dwellers without a garage. You have to think about recharging.

• It has a crummy touchscreen interface which requires looking away from the road to use.

• Paying extra depreciation and insurance for a sometime car is wasteful for someone early in life.

• Feel good you're likely freeing battery manufacturing capacity for someone who'll drive and use it daily.

Speaking as a gearhead, I disagree. There may be nothing on the motor side, but there's a lot that can be done with brakes/suspension/aero/interior. The Model 3 actually has pretty good aftermarket performance/tuning support (by far the best for EVs).

[yadayada]

We recently bought an ID.4 and I got good advice from this forum. We didn't consider a Tesla because it was almost $20K more and it seemed overvalued compared to the options. Now that Teslas are $20K cheaper, I think of them as being valued right now as opposed to being a bargain. Even at this price, we would have picked the ID.4 over it.
The idea of owning 3 cars and then selling 2 to buy a new one is rather convoluted. Take your time, test drive / rent cars to make up your mind on what you want and trade in one of your cars for it. Don't let the March 31st deadline drive your decisions. The $3.75K drop, if that is what it ends up being, is smaller than the depreciation hit you will take in these transactions.
Having your own reliable charging set up is one of the perks of an EV. Once you own one, you'll likely gravitate towards renting/buying a place with a garage. So factor those costs in.

[HomeStretch]

… we've had a 2021 X3 PHEV for two years now and its been great. You can run it in full electric mode, hybrid mode, or sport mode which combines both motors together. …

With a hybrid BMW X3, do you have to keep to the same maintenance schedule as an ICE BMW X5?

[teamDE]

… we've had a 2021 X3 PHEV for two years now and its been great. You can run it in full electric mode, hybrid mode, or sport mode which combines both motors together. …

With a hybrid BMW X3, do you have to keep to the same maintenance schedule as an ICE BMW X5?

I believe it is the same as the ICE. It's 1yr/10k oil changes. They're free for the first three years at least. I just had this year's service done last week. Honestly, it's kind of nice because they wash the car, do the yearly state inspection, and give me a loaner so no waiting around.

[tsm1th]

Get a Y. Biggest risk is you love the car and want to drive it exclusively. You're used to SUVs, so just get the type of vehicle that you prefer now, rather than trading in later.

Charging is a bit tricky with an apartment. I think you can probably get away with a 120V mobile charger if your daily driving needs are moderate. Supplement with Super Charging as needed. But if you see yourself having difficulty getting a parking spot with an outlet you may want to reconsider. The hassle of 20-30 minute fill-ups at the Super Charger might turn you off an EV if you are entirely dependent on them.

PS. EVs love being plugged in, so no fear leaving the car plugged in 24/7.

[harikaried]

If it makes any difference, Model Y (not Performance) went up by $500 while Model 3 stayed the same today. Some expect Tesla Model Y this year to take the title of best-selling car worldwide from Toyota Corolla in excess of 1 million units, so maybe that leads to more accurate pricing?

[Valuethinker]

With our Model 3, we almost never charge away from home, and we don't charge every day

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

Thank you.

I think because of the way UK electrified (municipal companies that were later merged into regional electricity boards) that things for household connections were pretty standardised. Small country relative to the USA (about the size of New England, I think).

[Valuethinker]

Just making sure, you've had multiple EVs but only one at a time? We charged our Model 3 on a regular 120V outlet just fine for years and only switched to 240V when we got an outlet installed for "free" and that the car came with the 14-50 adapter anyway. It was beneficial that we got it installed as now also with a Model Y, we can charge the less driven vehicle just once a week. The alternative with just a 120V probably would have still worked with alternating which vehicle gets the overnight charge as we don't usually drive more than 30 miles on each vehicle each day anyway.

Correct, one at a time - we'll definitely run the 240V line when we replace the 2nd vehicle with an EV. For that we're waiting for an SUV with "real" 3rd row seating (i.e. not a Model Y) that doesn't cost $80k+.

I am curious how much this will cost?

The prices here (UK) are less than £1k so say less than $1500. If I had a car parking space on my property (I live in a row house, and cheap enough when built in the 1800s that there was no provision for a horse & carriage down the lane behind) and I was buying an EV then I would just do it. Just for convenience factor and also for emergencies (ie battery has a greater degree of charging for any given moment).

Mind, our household electricity is all at 240v AC. So that might make it somewhat simpler to do. And I wouldn't have to borrow money to do it.

I imagine that presently there will be apps so I could lease out my charging in the day, if my car was not at home.

Cost to run the 240V line varies tremendously depending on where your breaker box is. In the US, I've heard folks paying anywhere from $350 to $2000. I'm expecting it to cost me around $1000.

+1
$350 - I could picture an existing breaker box in the garage with enough capacity and with existing open breaker slots where you want the charger.
$2K-$5K - then again it could be 100" away, requiring a larger incoming service and panel box, and a long difficult run.

Thank you that is interesting.

[harikaried]

Get a Y. Biggest risk is you love the car and want to drive it exclusively.

When we replaced our Camry with a Model 3, we ended up driving the sedan over our Forester even though we would have taken the SUV before getting a Tesla. But now that we've replaced the Subaru with a Model Y, we just take the SUV instead. We have taken the Model 3 for trips as well, but that was because friends on the same trip wanted to drive it instead of their ICE SUV.

So indeed, it seems like at least for us, EV SUV is preferred over EV sedan then over ICE SUV and lastly ICE sedan.

[harikaried]

The 3 is probably the more refined car; however, there's limited room in the rear seats/trunk. It's also a bit too low for daily driving.

What situations do you think it would be too low? I drive a Model 3 daily and haven't had issues driving over speed bumps if that's what you're referring to? Ground clearance seems to be 5.5" while Model Y is 6.8" so there is indeed nearly 25% difference there. I suppose compared to our Camry it replaced, the ground clearance is slightly less than the previous' 5.7".

Our 3's trunk seems to have plenty of space especially with the lower compartment (and there's the front trunk too), and newer versions have it automatically opening/closing instead of our manual one. The rear seats fold down 40/60, so I've brought people skiing in it too, but it's not as convenient as the Model Y's 40/20/40.

At least in overall technical progression, Model Y did come after Model 3, so it seems like Tesla has applied a lot of learnings into the newer vehicle even though they are quite similar and share many parts. I would think Tesla is working on refining the 3 even more based on their learnings from Model Y as well.

[Cycle]

When someone mentions an EV, I immediately think of the best selling category of EVs, which are electric bikes. The difference between an ICE car and EV car are marginal, like u put your foot down and it goes. The difference between a traditional bike and an EV bike are more like the difference between tony stark and ironman.

Point being, if you have working cars, I probably wouldn't get new cars unless it's replacing one of your existing cars.

[RJC]

The 3 is probably the more refined car; however, there's limited room in the rear seats/trunk. It's also a bit too low for daily driving.

What situations do you think it would be too low? I drive a Model 3 daily and haven't had issues driving over speed bumps if that's what you're referring to? Ground clearance seems to be 5.5" while Model Y is 6.8" so there is indeed nearly 25% difference there. I suppose compared to our Camry it replaced, the ground clearance is slightly less than the previous' 5.7".

Our 3's trunk seems to have plenty of space especially with the lower compartment (and there's the front trunk too), and newer versions have it automatically opening/closing instead of our manual one. The rear seats fold down 40/60, so I've brought people skiing in it too, but it's not as convenient as the Model Y's 40/20/40.

At least in overall technical progression, Model Y did come after Model 3, so it seems like Tesla has applied a lot of learnings into the newer vehicle even though they are quite similar and share many parts. I would think Tesla is working on refining the 3 even more based on their learnings from Model Y as well.

Sorry, I meant the seats were rather low for daily driving vs the Y. You kinda have to sink into the M3 which is somewhat a hassle if you are wearing suits, fitted pants, etc. Handling is probably much better but there's the tradeoff.

[bwalling]

Sorry, I meant the seats were rather low for daily driving vs the Y. You kinda have to sink into the M3 which is somewhat a hassle if you are wearing suits, fitted pants, etc. Handling is probably much better but there's the tradeoff.

I love my 3, but it's very low. My knees aren't the best, and it's okay to get in and out of when you have some room. If you're in the garage or in a parking lot and can't get the door all the way open, it's fairly difficult given how low it actually is.

[neilpilot]

Sorry, I meant the seats were rather low for daily driving vs the Y. You kinda have to sink into the M3 which is somewhat a hassle if you are wearing suits, fitted pants, etc. Handling is probably much better but there's the tradeoff.

I love my 3, but it's very low. My knees aren't the best, and it's okay to get in and out of when you have some room. If you're in the garage or in a parking lot and can't get the door all the way open, it's fairly difficult given how low it actually is.

I was ready to buy a M3 until I test drove one and decided an SUV was more appropriate. Just too much effort to enter & exit. My ID.4 is just right.

[Madbull]

Didn't see it mentioned, but check if you're close to one of the Electrify Expo events this year. Good place to see an assortment of options and test drives, (as well as other potentially cool items). - https://www.electrifyexpo.com/#Map and 2023 announcement schedule - https://assets.website-files.com/5e5c46 ... hedule.pdf (They're still updating their site from 2022 events, but good idea of their setup).

[BBBob]

I"m particularly interested in Audi and Hyundai's offerings, but I think those don't qualify for the fed tax credit?

Are you aware that you can lease an EV under recent rule changes, and the dealer can pass on the credits to you (in whole or in part). If this widens your search, check out the Kia EV6. It has gotten great reviews, and we probably would have seriously considered it if they were available last year.

FWIW, we have been driving only EVs since the late 90's and currently drive the 2022 Audi Etron. My wife loves it, but I find it too big and heavy for my taste. I am not a fan of the Tesla, finding the interior controls too cumbersome and distractive when driving, but their supercharger network is a huge plus for now.

The Ioniq looks like a great choice from what I have read; I think it is on the same body as the EV6.

[SlowMovingInvestor]

I"m particularly interested in Audi and Hyundai's offerings, but I think those don't qualify for the fed tax credit?

Are you aware that you can lease an EV under recent rule changes, and the dealer can pass on the credits to you (in whole or in part). If this widens your search, check out the Kia EV6. It has gotten great reviews, and we probably would have seriously considered it if they were available last year.

FWIW, we have been driving only EVs since the late 90's and currently drive the 2022 Audi Etron. My wife loves it, but I find it too big and heavy for my taste. I am not a fan of the Tesla, finding the interior controls too cumbersome and distractive when driving, but their supercharger network is a huge plus for now.

The Ioniq looks like a great choice from what I have read; I think it is on the same body as the EV6.

VW and Audi have passed the credit on for leases (at least until Jan 31st).

https://leasehackr.com/blog/2023/1/13/g ... or-audi-ev

I'm not sure if Hyundai/Kia have passed along the credit yet.

[hunoraut]

The difference between an ICE car and EV car are marginal, like u put your foot down and it goes.

Which ICE and EV cars have you driven?

The difference is much larger than that.

The utter silence, supreme smoothness, prodigious and instant power delivery is a vastly different experience than a traditional car. And extremely palpable on every drive.

My previous car had a BMW I6 twin-turbo and ZF 8 speed transmission, which is a fantastic drivetrain in its own right…but the sensation of a (equivalently priced) 400hp+ EV gloding down the road almost feels like teleportation.

[TomatoTomahto]

The difference between an ICE car and EV car are marginal, like u put your foot down and it goes.

Which ICE and EV cars have you driven?

The difference is much larger than that.

The utter silence, supreme smoothness, prodigious and instant power delivery is a vastly different experience than a traditional car. And extremely palpable on every drive.

My previous car had a BMW I6 twin-turbo and ZF 8 speed transmission, which is a fantastic drivetrain in its own right…but the sensation of a (equivalently priced) 400hp+ EV gloding down the road almost feels like teleportation.

Cycle got you to take the bait

[stoptothink]

The difference between an ICE car and EV car are marginal, like u put your foot down and it goes.

Which ICE and EV cars have you driven?

The difference is much larger than that.

The utter silence, supreme smoothness, prodigious and instant power delivery is a vastly different experience than a traditional car. And extremely palpable on every drive.

My previous car had a BMW I6 twin-turbo and ZF 8 speed transmission, which is a fantastic drivetrain in its own right…but the sensation of a (equivalently priced) 400hp+ EV gloding down the road almost feels like teleportation.

Cycle got you to take the bait

That was an odd post, not just because of the EV statement. I agree an EV is a totally different experience, although same may not prefer it (after having driven many EVs, I'm not sure myself).

I absolutely love my e-bike, but it's not like some insane difference from an acoustic bike. Not to mention mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles exist; many e-bikes are "moped style", which actually makes them closer to a moped/motorcycle than a bike - nobody uses the peddles.

[RobLyons]

I'm a little like you, as we have 2 paid off vehicles (3 if you count my Foxbody that isn't driven much) and I would love to own a Tesla. The Model 3 Performance is enticing. I do not have a fast charger at home, but I have solar and could hire an electrician to install the outlet for ~ $800. The way I see it, it would be a luxury with potential headaches to move to a Tesla.

Trickle charging is very, very slow
Teslas have known QC issues
The cost is still relatively high compared to other commuter ICE vehicles
The savings from owning no maintenance EVs are usually overstated
We may see a redesigned Model 3 later this year
The near future will be filled with other EV options
Tesla rips through tires quickly
If you live anywhere cold, that charger may get iced over
Plugging in and unplugging every day is just another task I'd rather not do

So, if you can easily afford a Tesla, go for it. Just be forewarned. Do your due diligence. Take a test drive. Best of luck!

[TomatoTomahto]

Plugging in and unplugging every day is just another task I'd rather not do

Trust me on this, it becomes muscle memory, just like taking off your seatbelt before you get out of the car. Depending on your use case, you might not need to do this daily; I generally don’t.

[neilpilot]

Plugging in and unplugging every day is just another task I'd rather not do

Trust me on this, it becomes muscle memory, just like taking off your seatbelt before you get out of the car. Depending on your use case, you might not need to do this daily; I generally don’t.

....and plug in every day is a bit like buying gas for your ICE every week. It depends on how much you drive. I plug in every 6-10 days.

[cmr79]

Plugging in and unplugging every day is just another task I'd rather not do

Trust me on this, it becomes muscle memory, just like taking off your seatbelt before you get out of the car. Depending on your use case, you might not need to do this daily; I generally don’t.

....and plug in every day is a bit like buying gas for your ICE every week. It depends on how much you drive. I plug in every 6-10 days.

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

[02nz]

Plugging in and unplugging every day is just another task I'd rather not do

Trust me on this, it becomes muscle memory, just like taking off your seatbelt before you get out of the car. Depending on your use case, you might not need to do this daily; I generally don’t.

+1. Stopping by every week or two at a gas station that has toxic fumes and hanging around while the car is refueling is just another task I'd rather not do!

[bwalling]

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

Isn't actionable? I've had 48amp home charging for two years, and there's no chance I'm ever going back to buying gas.

[smitcat]

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

Isn't actionable? I've had 48amp home charging for two years, and there's no chance I'm ever going back to buying gas.

I think it's is fantastic that is works well for you - there are others that it does not work so well for.

[cmr79]

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

Isn't actionable? I've had 48amp home charging for two years, and there's no chance I'm ever going back to buying gas.

People who like EVs argue that plugging in at home is easier than going to a gas station. And people who don't argue that spending a few seconds to plug in is more of a nuisance than going to a gas station once a week for a few minutes. It is a stupid argument that goes on ad nauseum because 1) it is subject to opinions, and 2) the inconvenience of plugging in an EV or the inconvenience of getting gas at a gas station are, for the majority of people, just such minor issues that they shouldn't change anyone's minds about what type of vehicle to get.

I'm glad you aren't going back to buying gas. My EVSE is sitting, waiting for my ordered EV to arrive, and I hope to be in the same boat as you shortly. But the inconvenience of getting gas wasn't a driving reason for me to purchase an EV, and I highly doubt it is for OP either. Hence, not actionable and unnecessarily risking another thread getting locked when people start timing how long it takes to plug/unplug their vehicles or arguing about how far the EVSE is from the car's charge port, etc.

[harikaried]

I meant the seats were rather low for daily driving vs the Y. You kinda have to sink into the M3 which is somewhat a hassle if you are wearing suits, fitted pants, etc

Oh thanks for clarifying. Indeed, wife much prefers the higher seats of the Model Y (and has complained about hitting her head on the 3 when getting in). I guess I mostly wear jeans and t-shirts, so I haven't had the issue of keeping my clothes nice when getting in/out of the Model 3.

[hunoraut]

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

Agreed. Having to fuel up OR charge a vehicle slots in the hasslesome chore list somewhere between topping up windshield fluid and having to wipe down the dash periodically; its simply not a meaningful requirement

[stoptothink]

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

Agreed. Having to fuel up OR charge a vehicle slots in the hasslesome chore list somewhere between topping up windshield fluid and having to wipe down the dash periodically; its simply not a meaningful requirement

+2. The hassle of fueling up isn't even a consideration for us in this debate. We spend a combined maybe 10 minutes a month at a gas station fueling our cars and I hardly feel it is a hassle to plug in our e-bikes a few times a week. Silly debate.

[RobLyons]

Plugging in and unplugging every day is just another task I'd rather not do

Trust me on this, it becomes muscle memory, just like taking off your seatbelt before you get out of the car. Depending on your use case, you might not need to do this daily; I generally don’t.

....and plug in every day is a bit like buying gas for your ICE every week. It depends on how much you drive. I plug in every 6-10 days.

The amount of work to fill up at a gas station vs plugging and unplugging an EV at home has been debated to the point of locking threads before and just isn't an actionable reason to choose one over the other, at least not compared to not having access to home charging or level 1 vs level 2 charging.

Well I wasn't looking for a debate I was just stating my opinion and everyone piled on. But my own experience was this:

I once owned a Chevy Volt. I live in the northeast. I do not have a garage and don't have room to build one. The charge port would get frozen during cold weather (December through February). Maybe some manufacturers have a warming mechanism ? or something now but the Volt did not and trying to scrape and dethaw a charge port that's stuck to the car and actively charging or just stuck closed is labor intensive and nerve racking.

That vs I don't even get out of my car as the gas station down the street still has a guy that pumps the gas for me once every 3 weeks.
No labor.
No brainer.