Opinions on paying 10K a month in rent

[TomatoTomahto]

It’s easy enough to spend that amount for a reasonable 2 BR apartment in NYC, to mention one city I’m familiar with.

OP, whatever your reasons for not disclosing more about your circumstances, they are by definition your circumstances. You do you. Good luck.

[halfnine]

OP, if you had said something similar to spending 120K in a typical year with 2.5M investments and a 96K year pension but for one year you wanted to live it up a bit and spend 160K instead you would have gotten entirely different answers probably along the lines of YOLO. But, once you mention the extra expenses are going to go to rent....

[muffins14]

It’s easy enough to spend that amount for a reasonable 2 BR apartment in NYC, to mention one city I’m familiar with.

It may be easy, but it is equally easy not to. I gave some examples for Manhattan purchases or rentals. Simply searching on streeteasy would show a ton of options in luxury or remodeled buildings for 4K-6k for 1-2 bedrooms. Many luxury 2 bedroom apartments with private outdoor space and amenities can be had for well under 10k in places like east or west village, Nolita, soho, chelsea etc, and even cheaper elsewhere, not to mention Brooklyn, queens, Bronx options.

I find it hard to believe that with that range of options, OP in the undisclosed location has no choice but to pay 10k

[CaptainT]

10k a month is $333 a day. You can get some very very nice hotels for less then that. If this is just a month or two perhaps stay in a hotel would be smarter. Then when family visits you can get them an extra room in the same hotel

[TomatoTomahto]

It’s easy enough to spend that amount for a reasonable 2 BR apartment in NYC, to mention one city I’m familiar with.

It may be easy, but it is equally easy not to. I gave some examples for Manhattan purchases or rentals. Simply searching on streeteasy would show a ton of options in luxury or remodeled buildings for 4K-6k for 1-2 bedrooms. Many luxury 2 bedroom apartments with private outdoor space and amenities can be had for well under 10k in places like east or west village, Nolita, soho, chelsea etc, and even cheaper elsewhere, not to mention Brooklyn, queens, Bronx options.

I find it hard to believe that with that range of options, OP in the undisclosed location has no choice but to pay 10k

A family member, typically frugal, wanted an apartment in Chelsea. For reasons of his own, it was of considerable benefit that the apartment allow pets, have a doorperson, be easily walkable to his employment, etc. He wound up paying around $8k. People who have the means can decide which of their conflicting needs/wants (price, location, amenities, etc) will be met and which will be unmet.

[muffins14]

He wound up paying around $8k. People who have the means can decide which of their conflicting needs/wants (price, location, amenities, etc) will be met and which will be unmet.

Sure, and I’m glad he is happy. However $8k is still less than 10k, and we’re talking about one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the entire country, while the OP won’t even share the country or state we are talking about here. We are just information-starved in this thread

[AerialWombat]

deleted

[CoastLawyer2030]

He wound up paying around $8k. People who have the means can decide which of their conflicting needs/wants (price, location, amenities, etc) will be met and which will be unmet.

Sure, and I’m glad he is happy. However $8k is still less than 10k, and we’re talking about one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the entire country, while the OP won’t even share the country or state we are talking about here. We are just information-starved in this thread

Honestly, at this point it feels like this thread has run it’s course and should be locked, but that’s not my call.

Downvote! I am hoping the OP provides answers to the important inquiries so he or she can get more valuable advice.

[JackoC]

It’s easy enough to spend that amount for a reasonable 2 BR apartment in NYC, to mention one city I’m familiar with.

It may be easy, but it is equally easy not to. I gave some examples for Manhattan purchases or rentals. Simply searching on streeteasy would show a ton of options in luxury or remodeled buildings for 4K-6k for 1-2 bedrooms. Many luxury 2 bedroom apartments with private outdoor space and amenities can be had for well under 10k in places like east or west village, Nolita, soho, chelsea etc, and even cheaper elsewhere, not to mention Brooklyn, queens, Bronx options.

I find it hard to believe that with that range of options, OP in the undisclosed location has no choice but to pay 10k

A family member, typically frugal, wanted an apartment in Chelsea. For reasons of his own, it was of considerable benefit that the apartment allow pets, have a doorperson, be easily walkable to his employment, etc. He wound up paying around $8k. People who have the means can decide which of their conflicting needs/wants (price, location, amenities, etc) will be met and which will be unmet.

I'm also very familiar with NY but have only ever visited the San Fran area (the unofficial capital of this forum it seems sometimes ), I did live in LA for a few years (on the cheap). You and muffins14 are both right but it really means IMO you're more right in this particular situation. People are renting big, new, and/or doorman places in 'NYC' defined as the trendy parts of Manhattan (with occasional shout out to the small % of Brooklyn's land area that's similarly priced) and paying $8 or $10k (or even much more). They could also pay much less, in NY. The median or average depending on the source, the type of apartment and it's not always clear if those figures include Rent Stabilized and public (<1/2 of apartments are free market) is in the $2-4k range. And it doesn't even matter that that number is fuzzy because it all depends what you want and where. But the people paying $8k-$10k or more have their reasons, that's what it is for the particular neighborhoods and apartments they want, and while some of them probably 'can't afford it' by BH standards, others are 'living below their means' at those rents.

It is a weird thread where person seeming to ask if should pay this kind of rent won't give any specifics why they 'have to'. But in a more normal discussion the person wouldn't be asking (or suggesting the question) if they should, they'd just be living in a $8k place in Chealsea or a probably smaller, but not small, recently renovated free market 2BD in an older 6 family in an 'up and coming' area of Brooklyn for low $2k's, because that's the kind of place each wants and has the money for. Also unless the market is grossly inefficient $10k rent doesn't necessarily mean 'well then you should buy'. In extremely pricey markets like NY or SF rents relative to prices (ie cap rates from landlord POV) tend to be lower compared to less extremely high price areas. Cap rates suggest buyers are relying at least partly on prices and/or rents continuing to rise faster in those places than other places. That could be right or not, but it's not a no brainer to buy those places if you can afford the rent.

[Maverick3320]

It’s easy enough to spend that amount for a reasonable 2 BR apartment in NYC, to mention one city I’m familiar with.

It may be easy, but it is equally easy not to. I gave some examples for Manhattan purchases or rentals. Simply searching on streeteasy would show a ton of options in luxury or remodeled buildings for 4K-6k for 1-2 bedrooms. Many luxury 2 bedroom apartments with private outdoor space and amenities can be had for well under 10k in places like east or west village, Nolita, soho, chelsea etc, and even cheaper elsewhere, not to mention Brooklyn, queens, Bronx options.

I find it hard to believe that with that range of options, OP in the undisclosed location has no choice but to pay 10k

A family member, typically frugal, wanted an apartment in Chelsea. For reasons of his own, it was of considerable benefit that the apartment allow pets, have a doorperson, be easily walkable to his employment, etc. He wound up paying around $8k. People who have the means can decide which of their conflicting needs/wants (price, location, amenities, etc) will be met and which will be unmet.

That's all fine and dandy, but when said people of means come to a public forum asking for advice and then give evasive or no answers to some fairly important questions, it's kind of self-defeating.

[Marseille07]

Downvote! I am hoping the OP provides answers to the important inquiries so he or she can get more valuable advice.

There isn't much to discuss when the OP confuses wants vs needs.

And if they insist they need to pay 10K/mo in rent, then the answer is obvious - they need to pay.

[Lee_WSP]

We can't help you with out you being honest about your situation.

But for those wondering how in the world can rent beb10k a month, let me assure you, it can.

If your house burns down and you need a place to stay, in the Phoenix metro area, your looking at a short-term fully furnished rental for 10k a month. A long term fully furnished rental is about 6-8 for a slightly above median house. There just are no short term rentals with furniture out there. They're being Air bnb'd.

Phoenix is not even that expensive.

So, yes, I fully believe OP may well be looking at a "reasonable" rent given the requirements. However, I don't think OPs requirements are affordable for OP.

[stoptothink]

If your house burns down and you need a place to stay, in the Phoenix metro area, your looking at a short-term fully furnished rental for 10k a month. A long term fully furnished rental is about 6-8 for a slightly above median house. There just are no short term rentals with furniture out there. They're being Air bnb'd.

Phoenix is not even that expensive.

Our neighbors and really good family friends are moving to Phoenix area (well, Gilbert) literally this week. They are renting a really nice 4bdr SFH home for $2600/month, definitely cheaper than a comparable place could be rented here in the SLC suburbs. Short-term and furnished is 4x the cost?

[Lee_WSP]

If your house burns down and you need a place to stay, in the Phoenix metro area, your looking at a short-term fully furnished rental for 10k a month. A long term fully furnished rental is about 6-8 for a slightly above median house. There just are no short term rentals with furniture out there. They're being Air bnb'd.

Phoenix is not even that expensive.

Our neighbors and really good family friends are moving to Phoenix area (well, Gilbert) literally this week. They are renting a really nice 4bdr SFH home for $2600/month, definitely cheaper than a comparable place could be rented here in the SLC suburbs. Short-term and furnished is 4x the cost?

No one wants to rent to someone month to month. They want year long leases.

Also, they’re renting an empty home. I specifically stated that the home is furnished.

[huzen]

OP, if you had said something similar to spending 120K in a typical year with 2.5M investments and a 96K year pension but for one year you wanted to live it up a bit and spend 160K instead you would have gotten entirely different answers probably along the lines of YOLO. But, once you mention the extra expenses are going to go to rent....

+1
Or if they said that their new divorce settlement says they have to move out of their VHCOL home but they're hoping to move to a 2+ bdrm near their kids' current school, and can they make this 10k place that's available work for a year until they get things sorted out?

[stoptothink]

If your house burns down and you need a place to stay, in the Phoenix metro area, your looking at a short-term fully furnished rental for 10k a month. A long term fully furnished rental is about 6-8 for a slightly above median house. There just are no short term rentals with furniture out there. They're being Air bnb'd.

Phoenix is not even that expensive.

Our neighbors and really good family friends are moving to Phoenix area (well, Gilbert) literally this week. They are renting a really nice 4bdr SFH home for $2600/month, definitely cheaper than a comparable place could be rented here in the SLC suburbs. Short-term and furnished is 4x the cost?

No one wants to rent to someone month to month. They want year long leases.

Also, they’re renting an empty home. I specifically stated that the home is furnished.

I'm not doubting you, but that cost differential is insane. If that is the case, what does a short-term furnished rental in SLC, let alone NYC, cost? I genuinely have no clue.

[cchrissyy]

They won't charge interest for a period of time, and then they will. I believe I have about a year or so left. In the past I have paid my CC and the end of each billing cycle before it was due to avoid interest payments.

on the 0% cards, usually if there is any balance not paid off when the time period ends, the terms are they will charge you interest on it retroactively at the high rate.

[CrazyCatLady]

I wonder if the OP is taking a job overseas. If he is going to somewhere like Dubai, I could see $10k per month for a safe and protected location, especially if he has female family members who will be coming to visit.

Though like someone else said, it’s all speculation without details from the OP. But if it is a safety issue, I’d say it is definitely worth the money.

[Lee_WSP]

If your house burns down and you need a place to stay, in the Phoenix metro area, your looking at a short-term fully furnished rental for 10k a month. A long term fully furnished rental is about 6-8 for a slightly above median house. There just are no short term rentals with furniture out there. They're being Air bnb'd.

Phoenix is not even that expensive.

Our neighbors and really good family friends are moving to Phoenix area (well, Gilbert) literally this week. They are renting a really nice 4bdr SFH home for $2600/month, definitely cheaper than a comparable place could be rented here in the SLC suburbs. Short-term and furnished is 4x the cost?

No one wants to rent to someone month to month. They want year long leases.

Also, they’re renting an empty home. I specifically stated that the home is furnished.

I'm not doubting you, but that cost differential is insane. If that is the case, what does a short-term furnished rental in SLC, let alone NYC, cost? I genuinely have no clue.

It's the furnishings. Not the term. I think you can get an unfurnished SFH for about 3-4k on a month to month if you're willing to go out far enough from the city center. Haven't checked though, so can't say.

I just know what a furnished house is and only because I know someone who was looking recently.

[stoptothink]

If your house burns down and you need a place to stay, in the Phoenix metro area, your looking at a short-term fully furnished rental for 10k a month. A long term fully furnished rental is about 6-8 for a slightly above median house. There just are no short term rentals with furniture out there. They're being Air bnb'd.

Phoenix is not even that expensive.

Our neighbors and really good family friends are moving to Phoenix area (well, Gilbert) literally this week. They are renting a really nice 4bdr SFH home for $2600/month, definitely cheaper than a comparable place could be rented here in the SLC suburbs. Short-term and furnished is 4x the cost?

No one wants to rent to someone month to month. They want year long leases.

Also, they’re renting an empty home. I specifically stated that the home is furnished.

I'm not doubting you, but that cost differential is insane. If that is the case, what does a short-term furnished rental in SLC, let alone NYC, cost? I genuinely have no clue.

It's the furnishings. Not the term. I think you can get an unfurnished SFH for about 3-4k on a month to month if you're willing to go out far enough from the city center. Haven't checked though, so can't say.

I just know what a furnished house is and only because I know someone who was looking recently.

I'm not sure about the short-term thing, but Google (zillow, apartment.com, furnished finder) says "furnished" rentals in my area are just a few hundred more a month than unfurnished.

[Lee_WSP]

I'm not sure about the short-term thing, but Google (zillow, apartment.com, furnished finder) says "furnished" rentals in my area are just a few hundred more a month than unfurnished.

https://www.vacasa.com/search?amenity%5 ... a/Phoenix/

And we’re in the down season. January/February when they were looking was peak rental season.

[quantAndHold]

So my reading of this is OP is asking permission from us to spend $6k more than his income, most of that on rent, even though he already has $60k in short term debt.

Without understanding why that would be necessary, I’m not in a position to give permission.

My guess, from the hints provided, is that it would be more cost effective to spend $4k renting a smaller place, then pay for a hotel when the family comes to visit. But there really isn’t enough information to know.

[fyre4ce]

OP, more info is likely required to give anything which resembles useful advice here:

1. How many people do you need to accommodate
2. What sort of area are you moving to? VHCOL? HCOL? (i.e. very high cost, high cost, medium cost?)
3. Any thing special which is driving you to *this* property or area? (e.g. want to be close to family member? root? job?)
4. Job situation? Stable? Not stable?
5. What's your AA and/or cash/cash/bond equivalent situation? Market is in a downturn, if you lack cash reserves or have a very aggressive portfolio, this could lead to behavior mistakes. Combined with a high cost of living, this can be pretty bad.

For reference, I live in SF and the $10k/month is *a lot* even for here (you can get some very nice 3+ BDRM townhomes/condos for this kind of money).

It is me and family when they visit. It is high cost because of the area and accommodations. Everything is relatively stable.

What I am thinking is let's say costs are 14K.

8K comes in so that leaves me with -6K.

I withdraw 6K a month from my savings account for about 8 months.

That's about ~50K. I would still have a good amount invested. Of course, I guess it would fluctuate and I don't know whether it will be higher or lower.

But within 8 months, if I find a cheaper place, let's say 4K, that would leave me with an 8K income and 8K expense.

I wouldn't have 50K in my savings account anymore, but I suppose that would be all right.

OP,

We're trying to help you but you are not giving enough detail. Based on the little information you provided, the $10k/mo rent seems like a stretch for your budget, and there are clues that it might not be necessary. For instance, if you think you can "find a cheaper place" within 8 months that will drop the cost from $10k to $4k, why can't you find a suitable place for $4k now? That's a huge spread. Also, you say you will be living by yourself, but will have family come visit. How often and for how long? It will almost certainly be cheaper to rent a small place for yourself and rent your family a hotel when they visit. Given your credit card debt and other uncertain financial details, I would not spend more money than you need on housing, especially for a temporary situation.

I assumed your $8,000/mo "perpetuity" was after taxes, but here you're saying it's before taxes, and only $6,000/mo after taxes. That makes this expensive apartment even less advisable. What is this perpetuity? Is it some trust or settlement income? Or is it just your income from employment? Please also answer mrspock's other questions.

[adamthesmythe]

Honestly, at this point it feels like this thread has run it’s course and should be locked, but that’s not my call.

What is the internet if not a place for beating dead horses?

But yes, I concur that any remaining discussion is pointless. Mainly because there is not enough information from OP to have an intelligent discussion.

I will say- I can imagine some good reasons that OP might be considering this route. And I can imagine a fair number of dumb reasons. The persistent refusal to engage leads me to suspect that it is the latter.

[fyre4ce]

They won't charge interest for a period of time, and then they will. I believe I have about a year or so left. In the past I have paid my CC and the end of each billing cycle before it was due to avoid interest payments.

on the 0% cards, usually if there is any balance not paid off when the time period ends, the terms are they will charge you interest on it retroactively at the high rate.

I'm not a big fan of 0% credit cards and have none of my own. Nonetheless, this is a surprise to me. Can you provide a citation? Is the retroactive interest simple or compounded?

[Silk McCue]

They won't charge interest for a period of time, and then they will. I believe I have about a year or so left. In the past I have paid my CC and the end of each billing cycle before it was due to avoid interest payments.

on the 0% cards, usually if there is any balance not paid off when the time period ends, the terms are they will charge you interest on it retroactively at the high rate.

That’s not how I works. At least not these days. Their is no retroactive interest charged. There was likely 3% or such fee charged upfront for balance transfers or for using checks issued with the card.

Cheers

[TomatoTomahto]

I’m assuming that OP has a situation like mine when I separated from my wife more than a quarter century ago. I needed an apartment near the kids’ school, I wanted them to have access to their existing friends, I wanted a place sufficiently similar to the “marital home,” etc. My rent was more than the apartment was worth, but it fit a need at the time.

[Lee_WSP]

I’m assuming that OP has a situation like mine when I separated from my wife more than a quarter century ago. I needed an apartment near the kids’ school, I wanted them to have access to their existing friends, I wanted a place sufficiently similar to the “marital home,” etc. My rent was more than the apartment was worth, but it fit a need at the time.

Agreed. It's a scenario I've seen play out many times.

And on short notice you really don't have a lot of options and can end up paying a lot of money for a few months.

However, all that said, I think you can rectify the disparity in fair market rent & emergency situation within a month or three of moving out. As such I think OP's 8 month timeframe is borderline really bad case/worst case scenario.

[Katietsu]

I am surprised at the negativity of the responses. OP has 2.5 million in investments not to mention an inflation adjusted income that should be able to provide for all needs of necessary. This is a case of being able to afford whatever you want just not everything you want. The advantage of the 2.5 million is that there is an umbrella if it rains. If that rainy day is now, use some of the investment dollars. Assuming that we are accurately reading between the lines, this is a stressful time in OP’s life. Perfect time to spend the savings if you have it.

If OP gave same financial picture but was spending $5000 in rent and wanted to use $60,000 of savings on a one time trip for the extended family, I think they would have received a lot of positive responses.

Maybe OP can consider some of the alternative suggestions and reduce the cost of this crisis. Otherwise, it seems that they will be fine for now and just need to know it should not be a permanent choice.

[cchrissyy]

I am surprised at the negativity of the responses. OP has 2.5 million in investments not to mention an inflation adjusted income that should be able to provide for all needs of necessary. This is a case of being able to afford whatever you want just not everything you want. The advantage of the 2.5 million is that there is an umbrella if it rains. If that rainy day is now, use some of the investment dollars. Assuming that we are accurately reading between the lines, this is a stressful time in OP’s life. Perfect time to spend the savings if you have it.

I agree with this

For this year, not forever.

In my head TomatoTohmato is right and this is a divorce situation with one side still hoping for reconciliation.

If so, the lifetime 8k/month with inflation adjustment is subject to another person's earnings and staying alive, which are not perfectly guaranteed.

If I'm wrong the OP can come back and clarify

But in their absence it looks like we have a person who can rent their big, furnished, convenient spot for a year without taking damage and then reevaluate.

It's a "need" and they have the funds, the answer is in the question

[Starfish]

I have a friend who has paid 10k$ in rent for a last decade. He lives in Manhattan, rents and apartment and loves it. Everything is close by, good schools, may opportunities, kids walk to school, he takes subway to work, no car etc. I don't know the RE market in Manhattan, so I cannot say if it was a good financial decision.

[galawdawg]

Frankly, all of this speculation and guessing about OP's circumstances is pointless. Nobody knows what is going on here, other than the OP, and he/she won't fill in the blanks and it is pretty clear that no more information will be forthcoming. What isn't clear to me is whether this thread is even actionable.

If OP actually wanted advice, then the OP could have asked specific questions and provided the relevant information necessary to provide sound recommendations. In fact, if you read each of OP's posts, the OP doesn't pose a single question, just a series of comments telling us what he/she is going to do. Several Bogleheads have inquired of the OP what he/she is asking, but the OP has ignored those efforts to find out what advice he/she is seeking, if any. Instead, OP has merely restated what was said in the initial post and/or provided a justification for a few issues that were commented upon by others.

[chipperd]

Frankly, all of this speculation and guessing about OP's circumstances is pointless. Nobody knows what is going on here, other than the OP, and he/she won't fill in the blanks and it is pretty clear that no more information will be forthcoming. What isn't clear to me is whether this thread is even actionable.

If OP actually wanted advice, then the OP could have asked specific questions and provided the relevant information necessary to provide sound recommendations. In fact, if you read each of OP's posts, the OP doesn't pose a single question, just a series of comments telling us what he/she is going to do. Several Bogleheads have inquired of the OP what he/she is asking, but the OP has ignored those efforts to find out what advice he/she is seeking, if any. Instead, OP has merely restated what was said in the initial post and/or provided a justification for a few issues that were commented upon by others.

+1
I find it interesting how the human condition will react when given just enough, vague details to be strung along.
OP, thanks for an interesting projective device.

[sleepy06]

I am laughing b/c the title of the thread is literally called "opinions on paying 10K a month in rent." And, that is what materialized. Most people were abhorred by this thought, some people thought it was ok, and no further substantive data materialized.

[SpaghettiLegs]

$10k would be a hard pass for any reason unless that’s Canadian dollars and then apt would have to be in Vancouver with views.

[LadyGeek]

I removed some off-topic posts. This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted). See: Locked Topics

Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.