Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

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Tejfyy
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Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Tejfyy »

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but has there been any thought to changing the site's default search engine from Google to DuckDuckGo due to Google's privacy [policies].
Thank you.

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yolointopants
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by yolointopants »

I use DDG primarily. Most of the time it works. Sometimes I end up doing the same search on Google to get a better result. I have never once searched first on Google and then needed to check DDG. Google is the better search engine when it comes to finding what you need in my experience.
djshackesq
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by djshackesq »

I’ve tried many times to use DuckDuckGo as my go to search engine and the results just aren’t good for anything somewhat specific. I can’t imagine it’d be useful searching this site.
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JoMoney
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by JoMoney »

I'm a fan of DDG, it's my personal default search engine, and you can use it to search Bogleheads even without there being a link to it on the site.
Just go to the DuckDuckGo site (or use your browser address bar if your browser is configured with DDG as search), and type:

Code: Select all

site:bogleheads.org [whatever you're searching for]
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Abogleh ... =hb&ia=web
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Alex Frakt »

We use Google because it's my experience that they give better search results than the alternatives. Also, we can see how often the various search engines spider the forum and Google is by far the most active which means they incorporate new posts typically within a few minutes. Duckduckgo is among the least active of the major search engines, it can take days for new posts to get incorporated into results there.

FWIW, I keep two browsers open. My primary browser is Firefox (actually a Firefox fork called Fennec) with the ublock origin ad blocker extension enabled. I never sign into google in this browser which means I am as anonymous as possible. I also have Chrome which I only use for gmail and sites that I have to access that don't work with Firefox and ublock origin.

If you dislike google, then most search sites will let you restrict your results to this forum. Or you can use our internal search engine via the little gear icon or go to search.php . However, this doesn't do relevance ranking so is not particularly useful for generic searches.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Mudpuppy »

Alex Frakt wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:31 pm If you dislike google, then most search sites will let you restrict your results to this forum. Or you can use our internal search engine via the little gear icon or go to search.php . However, this doesn't do relevance ranking so is not particularly useful for generic searches.
The phpBB search is however fabulous when you know some parameters, like you want to look at posts that mention a specific topic in the first post or you want to look for posts by a specific user in a specific forum on a specific topic. Like just now, I looked up how many times I used the phrase (or quoted another user that used the phrase) "password*" (anything that starts with password) in the Personal Consumer Issues forum, and the answer is 254 times.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Alex Frakt »

Mudpuppy wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:37 pm
Alex Frakt wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:31 pm If you dislike google, then most search sites will let you restrict your results to this forum. Or you can use our internal search engine via the little gear icon or go to search.php . However, this doesn't do relevance ranking so is not particularly useful for generic searches.
The phpBB search is however fabulous when you know some parameters, like you want to look at posts that mention a specific topic in the first post or you want to look for posts by a specific user in a specific forum on a specific topic. Like just now, I looked up how many times I used the phrase (or quoted another user that used the phrase) "password*" (anything that starts with password) in the Personal Consumer Issues forum, and the answer is 254 times.
Yep. That's why we have both. As a moderator, I use it all the time.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by rich126 »

You might always want to look at the Brave browser. Some people rate it higher for security. Personally I think a lot of people's security issues on this stuff is overrated. Sure cookies can track things you look at, but I'm not sure what the big deal is about that. No one is coming to my door trying to sell me stuff on that, or sending me spam, etc. I have used DuckDuckGo at times and it is fine. Brave I've been playing around with some. I personally like Firefox.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Freefun »

I use it sometimes. I also use their privacy email service.

https://spreadprivacy.com/protect-your- ... rotection/
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

djshackesq wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:26 pm I’ve tried many times to use DuckDuckGo as my go to search engine and the results just aren’t good for anything somewhat specific. I can’t imagine it’d be useful searching this site.
This has been my experience as well. Let's stick to Google.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

Perhaps a site option could be created, allowing users to choose an alternative?
Would really prefer a more convenient way to avoid using google.

Would be happy to help develop that…

(The other day, while doing a bogleheads search, google prompted me for my location.)
MorgansRun
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by MorgansRun »

I am trying to be Google-free, so I like this change. (I realize that's an impossible task, but every little bit helps.)
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by JoMoney »

My favorite DDG feature, is if you set it as your default browser search, you can use their " !Bangs " as a shortcut to search using a specific sites search results right from the browser bar.
You have to learn which site "!bangs" are for which sites, but once you get the hang of it it's quite handy. They even have it for getting Boglehead's Wiki article results
I can just type:
!w [something] -and that will take me directly to Wikipedia search results or article
!imdb [something] -and get IMDB search
!yt [something] -and get Youtube results
!gmap [address] -and get GoogleMap results
!bogle [something] -and get Boglehead's Wiki results

You can use !Bangs from the DuckDuckGo search page, but where I find it handy is when having my browsers default search set to DDG I can just use the address bar to launch these. I can even use the !g [something] bang to get Google search results if I'd prefer those results rather than DDG's, !b for Bing search results, or !brave (a newer search engine alternative from the makers of the Brave web broswer)

I'll add that [CTRL]+L is the keyboard shortcut for most browsers to select your address bar, for those of us that prefer keyboard commands to mousing it's a nice shortcut to know (and works well in conjunction with !bangs and having DDG set as your browsers default search engine)
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by LadyGeek »

Rob Relyea wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:16 am Perhaps a site option could be created, allowing users to choose an alternative?
Would really prefer a more convenient way to avoid using google.

Would be happy to help develop that…

(The other day, while doing a bogleheads search, google prompted me for my location.)
Remember that we only use software that's been vetted by the forum software developers. If you were interested in that feature, join the community at phpBB and get involved.

An additional aspect is that we'll only add a new feature if (1) it's useful to a large number of members and (2) the site owners approve.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:56 am Remember that we only use software that's been vetted by the forum software developers. If you were interested in that feature, join the community at phpBB and get involved.

An additional aspect is that we'll only add a new feature if (1) it's useful to a large number of members and (2) the site owners approve.
Digging a bit, I see that there is a Google Search extension here for phpBB: https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/exte ... oglesearch

LadyGeek - can you confirm if that is the extension the site is already using?

Ideally, an extension could be built that supports that, but also lets the user choose search engines.
I didn't find a duckduckgo extension...but the difference between the google search extension and another search engine extension is likely very small.

Update: I reached out to HiFiKabin, the author of the google search extension, to see if:
"Have you thought of enhancing your extension to support multiple suggested engines by the site, and allows a user to choose their favorite to be their default?"
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Alex Frakt »

MorgansRun wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:55 am I am trying to be Google-free, so I like this change. (I realize that's an impossible task, but every little bit helps.)
Not using google search, and even not having google accounts, avoids only a small fraction of your data that gets reported to google. Nearly every webpage you go to (but not our site) includes tracking bugs to various google subsidiaries like doubleclick. It is possible to filter these out, but to be completely effective, it needs to be done at the DNS query level by adding filters to your router. You can also do it through a combination of editing your hosts file and configuring your browser to actually use the hosts file.

Or you could filter it at the browser level by using a browser that still supports full filtering (Firefox does for now) and using the ublock origin extension with the appropriate filter lists.

If you want to continue this tangent about avoiding google, the appropriate place would be to post in the Personal Consumer forum.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by dave8228 »

My go-to search engine for the past year or so has been Brave's search engine: https://search.brave.com/. They claim that searches are fully anonymous and private. The FAQ is here: https://brave.com/search/#search-faq
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

Rob Relyea wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:09 pm Update: I reached out to HiFiKabin, the author of the google search extension, to see if:
"Have you thought of enhancing your extension to support multiple suggested engines by the site, and allows a user to choose their favorite to be their default?"
The extension author and I are discussing via PM. I am going to build a small demo to communicate what I think could be done to improve his extension.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by LadyGeek »

Rob Relyea wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:09 pm Digging a bit, I see that there is a Google Search extension here for phpBB: https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/exte ... oglesearch

LadyGeek - can you confirm if that is the extension the site is already using?

Ideally, an extension could be built that supports that, but also lets the user choose search engines.
I didn't find a duckduckgo extension...but the difference between the google search extension and another search engine extension is likely very small.

Update: I reached out to HiFiKabin, the author of the google search extension, to see if:
"Have you thought of enhancing your extension to support multiple suggested engines by the site, and allows a user to choose their favorite to be their default?"
Sorry, we're not using that extension.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by dknightd »

I think it does not matter. Somebody somewhere is tracking everything I do. I'm not sure what they will do with that information. And frankly I do not care.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

Since this thread has rekindled my interest of having more than google site search as an easy option to search bogleheads...

1) As you saw above, I started looking for ways to help change phpBB or one of its search extensions...but it didn't look as fruitful as I first hoped after a bit of discussion with LadyGeek and a search extension author.

2) So I decided to prototype a small search experience for Bogleheads.org.

Goals:
- Make it easy to try different search engines
- Make it easy to focus search on forum, wiki, or entire site
- Get feedback on experience from members, and enhance...
- Use learnings to suggest enhancements to bogleheads, or just do a separate tool.

I'm sure there are other enhancements that could make searching the site better...

So, you can try out my first prototype using duckduckgo: https://bogle.tools/search/duckduckgo/
- If you still want to use google, try: https://bogle.tools/search/google/
- If you are a fan of brave.com: https://bogle.tools/search/brave/
- If you are a fan of bing.com: https://bogle.tools/search/bing/
- If you want to try a different engine, customize the domain and urlPattern here: https://bogle.tools/search/other/

-Rob
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by LadyGeek »

Nice, but I'm getting a 404 error (page not found) for https://bogle.tools/search/other/ when entering "test" in the ask.com search box with the "wiki only" selected.

I'm thinking that ask.com does not crawl this site.

- Typo fix: 'Forums' to "Forum"
- In addition to the forum and wiki, We have a Blog.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:03 pm Nice, but I'm getting a 404 error (page not found) for https://bogle.tools/search/other/ when entering "test" in the ask.com search box with the "wiki only" selected.

I'm thinking that ask.com does not crawl this site.

- Typo fix: 'Forums' to "Forum"
- In addition to the forum and wiki, We have a Blog.
Thanks!

With this commit
- Fixed ask.com's URL to fix that bug.
- Fixed typo.
- Added blog as one of the locations to search.

By the way, https://bogle.tools/search is a fine place to start, it will ask you which engine to use, and then show search box, etc...
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

More reasons to avoid google for me announced today:
(Relevant based on my earlier statement about them asking my location.)

I believe bogleheads user privacy would be good to protect, rather than defaulting to a bad privacy practice:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/tech ... d=tw-share

“Google agreed to a record $391.5 million privacy settlement with a 40-state coalition of attorneys general on Monday for charges that it misled users into thinking they had turned off location tracking in their account settings even as the company continued collecting that information.”
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by LadyGeek »

Yes, but bear in mind the site owner's (Alex Frakt) stated perspective on this - which defines what we do here.

Please feel free to find an existing thread in the Consumer Issues forum or start a new one to discuss Google privacy concerns and how you can protect yourself. You may also want to discuss privacy on Google owned devices, i.e. Android cellphones.

Let's keep this discussion focused on the site.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Shackleton »

Rob Relyea wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:04 pm Since this thread has rekindled my interest of having more than google site search as an easy option to search bogleheads...

1) As you saw above, I started looking for ways to help change phpBB or one of its search extensions...but it didn't look as fruitful as I first hoped after a bit of discussion with LadyGeek and a search extension author.

2) So I decided to prototype a small search experience for Bogleheads.org.

Goals:
- Make it easy to try different search engines
- Make it easy to focus search on forum, wiki, or entire site
- Get feedback on experience from members, and enhance...
- Use learnings to suggest enhancements to bogleheads, or just do a separate tool.

I'm sure there are other enhancements that could make searching the site better...

So, you can try out my first prototype using duckduckgo: https://bogle.tools/search/duckduckgo/
- If you still want to use google, try: https://bogle.tools/search/google/
- If you are a fan of brave.com: https://bogle.tools/search/brave/
- If you are a fan of bing.com: https://bogle.tools/search/bing/
- If you want to try a different engine, customize the domain and urlPattern here: https://bogle.tools/search/other/

-Rob
Thanks for putting these out there. I also try to avoid Google and always use DDG. While I normally use “Site:xxx” in my search, this saves me a little typing. I’ve bookmarked the DDG link. Thanks again.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Alex Frakt »

Rob Relyea wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:04 pm So, you can try out my first prototype using duckduckgo: https://bogle.tools/search/duckduckgo/
- If you still want to use google, try: https://bogle.tools/search/google/
- If you are a fan of brave.com: https://bogle.tools/search/brave/
- If you are a fan of bing.com: https://bogle.tools/search/bing/
- If you want to try a different engine, customize the domain and urlPattern here: https://bogle.tools/search/other/

-Rob
Doesn't work using Fennec F-Droid browser on Android. This is a fork of Firefox that I use on my phone because I prefer the interface and it works nicely with ublock origin. All I get is a circle with the word "Loading" in it.

Can I suggest you do less client side stuff? All you really need to serve is a static html page with a search box and submit button and then your page becomes browser agnostic.

It does work with Chrome on the same phone.

Well it did. Now I'm getting an error "An unhandled error has occurred."
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

Thanks for the feedback.

Looks like Fennec Fdroid is no longer updating says this reddit post from 2 years ago.

Unsure why your version of chrome had a problem.

Yes, the current search prototype that I put together at https://bogle.tools/search is part of a site that uses a fairly new technology (webassembly)...and the search pages definitely don't need all that firepower.

Will consider how to address as I evolve this functionality.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Alex Frakt »

I consider an inability to run stuff like WebAssembly code in my browser to be a feature, not a bug.

Re- this site, the factors driving the addition of software mods are utility, speed and universal accessibility. If it won't run on a potato, we are unlikely to add it.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by midwest_bound »

I actually made a userscript for exactly this!

If you download the extension ViolentMonkey and add the following script it will make all the search boxes use DuckDuckGo!

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name        New script - bogleheads.org
// @namespace   Violentmonkey Scripts
// @match       https://*.bogleheads.org/*
// @grant       none
// @version     1.0
// @author      -
// @description 2022-10-13, 9:04:16 a.m.
// ==/UserScript==

/* Changes the default Google search on Bogleheads to DuckDuckGo */

try {
document.getElementById("search").action = "https://www.duckduckgo.com/";
document.getElementById("keywords").placeholder="DuckDuckGo...";
site = document.getElementsByName("sitesearch")[0];
site.name = "sites";
site.value = "bogleheads.org";
} catch(e) {
  console.log("On homepage", e);
}

try {
document.getElementById("tfnewsearch").action = "https://www.duckduckgo.com/";
document.getElementById("keywords").placeholder="DuckDuckGo...";
document.getElementById("keywords").value = "";
site = document.getElementsByName("sitesearch")[0];
site.name = "sites";
site.value = "bogleheads.org";
} catch(e) {
  console.log("On forum post.", e)
}
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Using external search engines isn't really necessary. The board's Advanced search works quite well, particularly since some things were fixed in late March, early April 2022.
LadyGeek wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:36 pm Until now, the built-in search engine would not find posts earlier than 2011. The built-in search engine was fixed earlier today. You can now find posts that go all the way back to the start of the forum in 2007.
See this post for some guidance on usage options, i.e.
Peculiar_Investor wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:10 pm The Advanced search has some very useful capabilities that cannot be duplicated when using the Google search.

Take a look at:

Image
 
Two useful options that I commonly use on phpBB based boards are the Search within: and Display results as: radio buttons.

It can be very helpful to search within Topic titles only and depending on the search, Display results as: Topics.

The Search in forums: can be helpful to narrow down which forum or forums (and/or subforums) are searched.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Rob Relyea »

Peculiar_Investor wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:32 pm Using external search engines isn't really necessary. The board's Advanced search works quite well, particularly since some things were fixed in late March, early April 2022.
Yes, some good features there, including the ability to only search first post, etc...
If it was always better, the site should consider making it the default search experience from all its links.

For now, I've added a link to Forum Search from bogle.tools/search

Short Term Improvements
I'm going to continue to enhance bogle.tools/search for my own needs (and I'd love any feedback).

Beyond adding a link to Forum Search, I just posted an update so it will remember your search engine choice (while you are at bogle.tools. I don't yet save well enough to weather a browser tab close, but I'll likely do that eventually.)

Long Term Goal
I have a long term goal of being able to search Portfolio Review posts like this: I want to find all portfolio reviews that are my Portfolio Value +- $250k.
I've found that looking at other peoples portfolios who are in your neighborhood is educational.
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Re: Site default Search Engine DuckDuckGo?

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Rob Relyea wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:42 am
Peculiar_Investor wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:32 pm Using external search engines isn't really necessary. The board's Advanced search works quite well, particularly since some things were fixed in late March, early April 2022.
Yes, some good features there, including the ability to only search first post, etc...
If it was always better, the site should consider making it the default search experience from all its links.
If you are willing to make a small effort the board's Advanced search is always available throughout the board.

The only place that "Google ..." is the default is the search box in the header bar. Right beside that is the which leads to Advanced search.

Personally I almost never use the "Google ..." search box, I'm always using the Advanced search because I've spent some time to learn how it works and the board specific functionality that it provides.

One element not mentioned above, the board's searching can restrict the search to specific forums, including or excluding subforums. i.e only search in US Investors and subforums.

Which "search is better " if often in the eye of the beholder. Search seems simple but two different people can use the same search engine but slightly different terms and end up with completely different results.

Because no two users are the same, have choices in search engines and the tools you are providing is always helpful.
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