Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

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afan
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by afan »

eboats wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:50 am What do Vanguard advisors actually do for the 0.30%? If it's a simple 4 fund portfolio and they recommend you just buy and hold it, am trying to understand what tangible actions you're paying them to take, other than maybe rebalancing once a year?

When I met with a Fidelity advisor, they recommended a more complex slice and dice portfolio and took a more active management style, doing a lot of tax loss harvesting, so it was more clear about the tangible work they would actually be doing for their fee.
Except that you would be better off without all of that.

If my choice were an adviser who was going to slice and dice and actively manage or one who would pick a handful of cap weighted index funds and leave them alone, I would choose option 2, hands down.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
afan
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by afan »

student wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:25 am Although I do not have personal experiences and I must admit that I am bias, from the information that I have gathered, the 0.3% fee may buy you a slightly better than a cookie cutter recommendation.
But a cookie cutter recommendation is exactly what you want. That is not a bug, it is a feature.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by student »

afan wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:47 am
student wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:25 am Although I do not have personal experiences and I must admit that I am bias, from the information that I have gathered, the 0.3% fee may buy you a slightly better than a cookie cutter recommendation.
But a cookie cutter recommendation is exactly what you want. That is not a bug, it is a feature.
For a cookie cutter recommendation, I would argue that a TDF or a fixed asset allocation fund (all index) from Vanguard would be a cheaper choice. My issue was not with cookie cutter but rather with what is the 0.3% fee buying besides someone to talk to when one is nervous. I think I acknowledged earlier (if not, I will say it here) that some may finds this worthwhile, not me. Another poster commented that TDF is not a good competitor as one cannot tax loss harvest in a TDF. I looked into PAS and it does do TLH. So my first thought was right, this is an extra benefit with a PAS. However, upon further reflection, it comes with its own issues. This will not work if someone has PAS at Vanguard and another PAS's type with another company. If both are doing TLH, it may create wash sales. (I am in the camp that one should split the money with at least two companies.) So my conclusion is that 0.3% is still not worth it. It is better to either do a 3-fund portfolio or TDF/fixed asset allocation depending on how much "management" one wants to do.
afan
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by afan »

I agree that someone who absolutely did not want the minimal work maintaining a 3 fund portfolio would be better off in a target date fund for retirement assets than hiring an adviser to effectively creating one at a much higher price.

For taxable accounts it would be the capital gains distributions, not the lack of TLH, that would steer me away from a TDF.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
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Gort
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by Gort »

afan wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:41 am The first place I turn for non investing financial information is right here. Some Bogleheads are far more knowledgeable than the Vanguard CFPs. Not even close.
My edit of your quote in red.
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by tibbitts »

Gort wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:43 am
afan wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:41 am The first place I turn for non investing financial information is right here. Some Bogleheads are far more knowledgeable than the Vanguard CFPs. Not even close.
My edit of your quote in red.
Someone who isn't knowledgeable can post a simple question that ends up in a 273-post debate among Boglehead heavy-hitters about international or dividends or whatever. So what's a relatively low-knowledge person going to do with that? They're going to Vanguard partly to cut out the noise.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Vanguard User wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:40 am Taylor Larimore is the G.O.A.T advisor here right?
Vanguard User:

What is a "G.O.A.T advisor"?

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "One of our most important values is candor--tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, with no strings attached, and let the chips fall where they may."
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by nedsaid »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:36 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:40 am Taylor Larimore is the G.O.A.T advisor here right?
Vanguard User:

What is a "G.O.A.T advisor"?

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "One of our most important values is candor--tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, with no strings attached, and let the chips fall where they may."
Greatest of All Time. G-O-A-T. Just like Tom Brady is often call GOAT as a Quarterback. Pretty heady stuff, eh?
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by abuss368 »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:36 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:40 am Taylor Larimore is the G.O.A.T advisor here right?
Vanguard User:

What is a "G.O.A.T advisor"?

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "One of our most important values is candor--tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, with no strings attached, and let the chips fall where they may."
Hi Taylor -

GOAT is Greatest of all Time!

Happy Thanksgiving!
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by bertilak »

eboats wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:05 pm I met with a Vanguard advisor and they recommended a simple 4 fund portfolio. I just decided if it was that simple, I'd manage it myself and not pay their 0.30% fee. It didn't sound like they'd be doing much else for their fee other than maybe rebalancing once or twice a year and figured I could do that myself. I'd be curious if they provide any real value ( other than pep talks ) that I'm missing?
I hear they now do Tax Loss Harvesting.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by teniralc »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:28 pm Bogleheads:

We recently had a forum post by a Boglehead stating that Vanguard advisors were asked to recommend more managed funds.

I would be interested if other Bogleheads have run into this recommendation?

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "I favor the all-market index index fund as the best choice for most investors."
I've been using Vanguard PAS for about two years now. We had an annual meeting recently with our advisor. He gave my wife and I a thorough overview of where we stand and reviewed our goals. He did mentioned that Vanguard is offering some managed funds. He did not push them or recommend them to us. Rather, he seemed to mention them in the event that we had an interest in them. I asked his opinion and he said we were fine with the mostly ETF index funds that we are currently with, which he originally recommended. The only non-ETF funds we have are two ROTH IRA mutual funds that we kept from before we started using the PAS so that we could continue with the automatic monthly investments. So far, I have been very pleased with this particular advisor. Though the fee is not negligible, it is quite cheap compared to other advisory services and it is giving me some extra help, and gives my wife someone to go to should I not be around.
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by TLB »

bertilak wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:59 pm
eboats wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:05 pm I met with a Vanguard advisor and they recommended a simple 4 fund portfolio. I just decided if it was that simple, I'd manage it myself and not pay their 0.30% fee. It didn't sound like they'd be doing much else for their fee other than maybe rebalancing once or twice a year and figured I could do that myself. I'd be curious if they provide any real value ( other than pep talks ) that I'm missing?
I hear they now do Tax Loss Harvesting.
I haven’t talked to my PAS advisor in over a year. I do plan on spending some time going over TLH for year end planning. I hope they will help in this process or I will be pulling out of PAS.
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by Vanguard User »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:36 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:40 am Taylor Larimore is the G.O.A.T advisor here right?
Vanguard User:

What is a "G.O.A.T advisor"?

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "One of our most important values is candor--tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, with no strings attached, and let the chips fall where they may."
Greatest Of All Time.
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by racknpinion »

It all depends upon your level of investing experience and what you need. I know lots of very smart people that need advice and financial hand-holding, especially when markets are shaky. For these people it helps prevent impulsive decision-making and provides worthwhile and reliable advice. In my opinion, the more financially rational and experienced you are, the less value it has. I'm no financial genius but to me it seemed like I was paying thousands to have my portfolio run through 5 minutes of non-holistic, cookie-cutter analytics, then provided with some financial platitudes and pretty end-of-year color pie charts. I feel I can get much better advice, as-needed, by consulting on an hourly-fee basis with a few trusted tax, legal/trust and accounting experts.
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by bertilak »

racknpinion wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:00 am It all depends upon your level of investing experience and what you need. I know lots of very smart people that need advice and financial hand-holding, especially when markets are shaky. For these people it helps prevent impulsive decision-making and provides worthwhile and reliable advice. In my opinion, the more financially rational and experienced you are, the less value it has. I'm no financial genius but to me it seemed like I was paying thousands to have my portfolio run through 5 minutes of non-holistic, cookie-cutter analytics, then provided with some financial platitudes and pretty end-of-year color pie charts. I feel I can get much better advice, as-needed, by consulting on an hourly-fee basis with a few trusted tax, legal/trust and accounting experts.
I see great value in using PAS to protect investments left (or to be left) as a legacy. The beneficiary is, of course, free to do with things as they wish but providing instructions saying "Use PAS" is likely to help more than detailed and complex instructions on how to manage a set of investment accounts.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
afan
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Re: Are Vanguard investment advisors a sound choice of information?

Post by afan »

bertilak wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:05 pm
racknpinion wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:00 am It all depends upon your level of investing experience and what you need. I know lots of very smart people that need advice and financial hand-holding, especially when markets are shaky. For these people it helps prevent impulsive decision-making and provides worthwhile and reliable advice. In my opinion, the more financially rational and experienced you are, the less value it has. I'm no financial genius but to me it seemed like I was paying thousands to have my portfolio run through 5 minutes of non-holistic, cookie-cutter analytics, then provided with some financial platitudes and pretty end-of-year color pie charts. I feel I can get much better advice, as-needed, by consulting on an hourly-fee basis with a few trusted tax, legal/trust and accounting experts.
I see great value in using PAS to protect investments left (or to be left) as a legacy. The beneficiary is, of course, free to do with things as they wish but providing instructions saying "Use PAS" is likely to help more than detailed and complex instructions on how to manage a set of investment accounts.
The goal would be to leave a set of SIMPLE instructions.
There is no reason for this to be complicated.

If left 3-4 cap weighted index funds, maybe consult with an advice-only planner for an asset allocation, then adjust the mix of 3-4 cap weighted index funds. Done
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
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