PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

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runninginvestor
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by runninginvestor »

Has anyone installed a 40-60mm (or bigger) fan directly over their VRM ? I'm curious if any PC builders here have tried cooling this way. I have a B560 board with an Intel 11700 - single fan cooler - and the VRM pushes 90°C on ultra settings in games or heavy load.

The current fans kick in and keep it below 100°C under heavy load, but the tinkerer in me would like to try and get more airflow over it to be safe.
tortoise84
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

runninginvestor wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:33 pm Has anyone installed a 40-60mm (or bigger) fan directly over their VRM ? I'm curious if any PC builders here have tried cooling this way. I have a B560 board with an Intel 11700 - single fan cooler - and the VRM pushes 90°C on ultra settings in games or heavy load.

The current fans kick in and keep it below 100°C under heavy load, but the tinkerer in me would like to try and get more airflow over it to be safe.
What is the make and model of your B560 motherboard? Do you know what the PL1 and PL2 power limits are set to?

Yeah, some motherboards run the VRMs way too hot, even to the point where the CPU has to throttle. Intel CPUs are bad about this because they can draw over 200 W. Here's a YouTube video: https://youtu.be/HkiTA0XvXUM?t=451

If you're using a downdraft style CPU cooler, that will also help in cooling the VRMs. If you're using a tower style cooler, then sometimes you can add a second fan on the rear of the tower blowing at the VRMs towards the rear of the case. Or, you can have an exhaust fan at the rear of the case next to the I/O panel and VRMs.

I have an Arctic Liquid Freezer II which does have a tiny fan in the CPU block which supposedly aids cooling of the VRMs. But also, since there's no large heatsink tower on top of the CPU, there's a fairly unobstructed path for airflow to pass straight through (and over the VRMs) from my front case fans to the rear. https://youtu.be/KPaSEGe6ML0?t=485
Last edited by tortoise84 on Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

runninginvestor wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:33 pm Has anyone installed a 40-60mm (or bigger) fan directly over their VRM ?
Acronym decoder: What Is a VRM? A Basic Definition | Tom's Hardware (Voltage Regulator Module)
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runninginvestor
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by runninginvestor »

tortoise84 wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:52 am
runninginvestor wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:33 pm Has anyone installed a 40-60mm (or bigger) fan directly over their VRM ? I'm curious if any PC builders here have tried cooling this way. I have a B560 board with an Intel 11700 - single fan cooler - and the VRM pushes 90°C on ultra settings in games or heavy load.

The current fans kick in and keep it below 100°C under heavy load, but the tinkerer in me would like to try and get more airflow over it to be safe.
What is the make and model of your B560 motherboard? Do you know what the PL1 and PL2 power limits are set to?

Yeah, some motherboards run the VRMs way too hot, even to the point where the CPU has to throttle. Intel CPUs are bad about this because they can draw over 200 W. Here's a YouTube video: https://youtu.be/HkiTA0XvXUM?t=451

If you're using a downdraft style CPU cooler, that will also help in cooling the VRMs. If you're using a tower style cooler, then sometimes you can add a second fan on the rear of the tower blowing at the VRMs towards the rear of the case. Or, you can have an exhaust fan at the rear of the case next to the I/O panel and VRMs.

I have an Arctic Liquid Freezer II which does have a tiny fan in the CPU block which supposedly aids cooling of the VRMs. But also, since there's no large heatsink tower on top of the CPU, there's a fairly unobstructed path for airflow to pass straight through (and over the VRMs) from my front case fans to the rear. https://youtu.be/KPaSEGe6ML0?t=485
thanks for the response.
PL1 is 160W
PL2 is 224W

The make/model is a Lenovo in-house B560 Rocket Lake chipset. No heatsink or anything over the VRM but and airflow the CPU cooler (tower) pushes through is obstructed and already warmed, even if immediately exhausted.

I'm stuck debating whether I want to add another rear/top fan or just get 2 small 40mmx10mm Noctua fans + a bracket to blow directly on it. I suppose I'll see if there are any decent holiday deals to push me in either direction. I think I'm leaning towards just a top/rear case fan since it'll be easier for my spouse to install (I can't build PC's bc of a disability and since my sibling has moved away the build constraints revolve around my non-mechanically minded spouse)
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

runninginvestor wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:23 am thanks for the response.
PL1 is 160W
PL2 is 224W

The make/model is a Lenovo in-house B560 Rocket Lake chipset. No heatsink or anything over the VRM but and airflow the CPU cooler (tower) pushes through is obstructed and already warmed, even if immediately exhausted.

I'm stuck debating whether I want to add another rear/top fan or just get 2 small 40mmx10mm Noctua fans + a bracket to blow directly on it. I suppose I'll see if there are any decent holiday deals to push me in either direction. I think I'm leaning towards just a top/rear case fan since it'll be easier for my spouse to install (I can't build PC's bc of a disability and since my sibling has moved away the build constraints revolve around my non-mechanically minded spouse)
No heatsinks on the VRM is a bit of a concern, especially if you're pulling up to 224W. So I would put a heatsink on them first, before adding any more fans. You can see if Lenovo already has a heatsink part number for your motherboard, and just didn't install it for cost cutting reasons. Or you could get a generic universal heatsink and stick it to the VRMs (specifically, the MOSFETs) with adhesive thermal pads.

For fans, I think a top/rear 120mm exhaust fan will be much more effective than 2 x 40mm fans just based on the cfm they move.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

I agree that a case mounted fan would be better. Adding a fan where it wasn't intended to go might muck around with airflow around the other components.
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runninginvestor
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by runninginvestor »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:00 pm I agree that a case mounted fan would be better. Adding a fan where it wasn't intended to go might muck around with airflow around the other components.
tortoise84 wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:57 pm No heatsinks on the VRM is a bit of a concern, especially if you're pulling up to 224W. So I would put a heatsink on them first, before adding any more fans. You can see if Lenovo already has a heatsink part number for your motherboard, and just didn't install it for cost cutting reasons. Or you could get a generic universal heatsink and stick it to the VRMs (specifically, the MOSFETs) with adhesive thermal pads.

For fans, I think a top/rear 120mm exhaust fan will be much more effective than 2 x 40mm fans just based on the cfm they move.
Thanks for both the responses. I reached out to Lenovo to see about the heatsink. Whether it's supposed to have one or not. In the meantime, I'll get a 120mm exhaust fan since it'll be the easiest for my spouse to install & has more reusability than small fans. Plus, 1 less cable and don't have to get a y-connector either to plug both into the 1 closest fan header in.

Let you know how this plays out!
gavinsiu
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

A question about power supply rating. Using Pc Part picker, you can get a power requirement for all of the components. For example, it might say that I will need 450W total for example. I have read that power supply does not output the actual power listed. For example, a 500W power supply might only have a 75% efficiency and output only 375W. Is this the case?
tortoise84
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

gavinsiu wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:03 am A question about power supply rating. Using Pc Part picker, you can get a power requirement for all of the components. For example, it might say that I will need 450W total for example. I have read that power supply does not output the actual power listed. For example, a 500W power supply might only have a 75% efficiency and output only 375W. Is this the case?
Around 1.5-2x calculated power is the rule of thumb I use. This gives you some headroom for:
- Transient power spikes. Especially with the latest GPUs, transient power spikes can be up to double the rated power draw. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnRyyCsuHFQ
- Future expansion
- Peak efficiency is usually at 30-50% of rated power. But also PSU fan curves are usually based on % of rated power drawn, so if you want it to be quiet, you should aim to be at 50% of rated power.

Some things to be aware of:
- The efficiency shows up in the input power drawn from the wall, not the output power. i.e. if a 500W PSU is 86% efficient at 100% load, then it will draw 500W / 0.86 = 581W from the wall.
- Most PSUs can deliver the full rated or labeled power on the +12V rail, which is the main rail used by most of the PC components. But some PSUs use the total combined power output across all rails (+3.3V, +5V, etc) as the rated or labeled power, but can only deliver a reduced amount on the +12V rail, so this is the number you should look at.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

Thanks tortoise84, I was concern that I would have had to calculate the efficiency of the unit to get true power.
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Tyler9000
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Tyler9000 »

Independent George wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:08 pm The more I think about it, the more and more annoyed I am by AMD. There was no need to set the PPT that high just to chase clock speeds; these undervolted CPUs should have been the default power settings from the beginning. A lower power draw wouldn't have cut performance, and would have allowed cheaper motherboards at launch due to lower thermal requirements, and cheaper coolers & quieter computers. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect customers - even enthusiasts - to go into BIOS and muck about with PBO to have a reasonable PC build. They significantly hurt the user experience purely for the sake of marketing.
I just finished my 7700x build, and I have to agree with you. The difference between the stock settings and ECO mode results in less than a 5% drop in performance but a huge power savings. It allows me to run a beefy Noctua air cooler at low speeds to keep it at 75C while running Cinebench with virtually no fan noise at all. Configured properly, it's an efficient powerhouse.

IMHO, the real beauty of the new AMD chips is not the raw speed (and don't get me wrong -- they're fast) but the terrific performance at low power. I highly recommend that anyone who buys them should try the ECO mode settings (either in BIOS or using Ryzen Master) to appreciate their performance well below the thermal throttling limits.
tortoise84
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

AMD has already started to discount their Zen 4 CPUs so I decided to upgrade my 5600X to:

$221.61 Ryzen 5 7600X
$133.49 ASRock B650M PG Riptide AM5 Micro-ATX motherboard
$115.69 Team T-Force Vulcan 2x16GB DDR5-5600 CL36 RAM
=======
$470.79 from Newegg with Zip Pay 11% off code ZIP11

All other components I will just carry over from my current PC. I looked it up and I paid $309 for my 5600X back in Jan 2021, so I guess that shows that CPUs are bucking the inflation trend of everything else.

One of the reasons for why I'm upgrading is because in MS Flight Sim 2020, I found that my 3080 Ti gets bottlenecked by the 5600X. I made a video where you can see the GPU usage only reaches 60% at 1440p Ultra detail.

https://youtu.be/BpjlqiP--r8

The GPU usage can be increased to 80% by reducing the Level of Detail or using the High-End detail preset to relieve the CPU bottleneck. But from my research online, getting more cores like the 5800X, 5900X or 5950X doesn't help because the game is not multithreaded enough to use more than ~3-4 cores at any one time. However the 5800X3D with its 96MB L3 cache does show a large performance increase in MSFS2020 and many other games, so it would also be a viable upgrade.
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

tortoise84 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:18 am The GPU usage can be increased to 80% by reducing the Level of Detail or using the High-End detail preset to relieve the CPU bottleneck. But from my research online, getting more cores like the 5800X, 5900X or 5950X doesn't help because the game is not multithreaded enough to use more than ~3-4 cores at any one time. However the 5800X3D with its 96MB L3 cache does show a large performance increase in MSFS2020 and many other games, so it would also be a viable upgrade.
There should be 7000 series X3D chips out next quarter, though I expect the prices to be high. Probably not as high as they originally intended following the tepid Zen4 sales, but from what I've read they are expensive to manufacture and need to be priced high.
tortoise84
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

Independent George wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:57 am There should be 7000 series X3D chips out next quarter, though I expect the prices to be high. Probably not as high as they originally intended following the tepid Zen4 sales, but from what I've read they are expensive to manufacture and need to be priced high.
Yep, future upgradeability was one of the reasons why I went with the AM5 platform, instead of Intel 13th gen. In fact on my AM4 motherboard, I originally had a 3700X, and did a drop-in upgrade to the 5600X. So I'll wait and see if the prices and performance of the 7000X3D chips are worthwhile to do another upgrade. But I also think they'll be relatively expensive, considering that the 5800X3D at $329, is $110 or 50% more than a 5800X at $220.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by iragg »

Following this thread with interest, and hopefully can get some advice - currently using a 15.6" 2016 Lenovo IdeaPad running an Intel Core i7-7500U @ 2.70GHz with 8 Gb RAM 256 SSD HD and a Radeon RX 560 graphics card - it was a decent rig for the time - nothing high end. My 23" 15-year old LG screen died a few months back so between the laptop being slower and slower and having only the laptop screen, it is time to upgrade to a desktop + large screen.

This is a classic home office/personal use low needs operation ... I want to be able to simultaneously run a few browser windows, some Office programs (where I have 3 windows open side by side for some work) and perhaps watch a YT video or movie at 4K / HDR. The only game I can see myself playing would be Civilization 7 (when it finally comes out - played 5 and 6 on my laptop), and even this would be relatively rare (say once a month). No Photoshop, no rendering, no coding, no compiling - nothing beyond playing Civ 7 when it comes out

Features that are important to me:

1. Having a very quiet desktop - noise drives me nuts :)

2. Long lived desktop with hardware that will enable me to use it with the above profile for a long time - ideally a minimum of 6-7 years

3. My computer will get its internet via Wifi, so anything that ensures a good stable and fast connection

4. Screen-wise - at least 32" and likely nothing larger than 43", able to run 3840x2160 at minimum of 60 Hz and ideally VESA HDR600 or above

I am not a computer "person" by nature, so I won't likely upgrade - simply buy a new rig when Civ 8 comes out in 2031 LOL. I aim to take the specs to a store and have them assemble the desktop for me. Also, I live ex-US so not everything might be available (prices can be 50-100% higher, esp. GPUs).

Thanks!
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by mancich »

iragg - I'm not an expert but you should look at a Dell XPS for your desktop. Personally I've had great experience with them. Mine is going on 10 years old and still runs well. Get a Core i-7, 16 gig RAM, and a minimum 512gb SSD, as well as a model with a video card (skip the Intel integrated graphics). Pay a little more now and you'll get another 6-7 (or more) years. As for the monitor, I have no recommendation here; I would just get a highly-rated 32" or larger from a brand name like LG or a Dell Ultra Sharp. For what you are using it, you'll be fine.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by iragg »

mancich wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:06 am iragg - I'm not an expert but you should look at a Dell XPS for your desktop. Personally I've had great experience with them. Mine is going on 10 years old and still runs well. Get a Core i-7, 16 gig RAM, and a minimum 512gb SSD, as well as a model with a video card (skip the Intel integrated graphics). Pay a little more now and you'll get another 6-7 (or more) years. As for the monitor, I have no recommendation here; I would just get a highly-rated 32" or larger from a brand name like LG or a Dell Ultra Sharp. For what you are using it, you'll be fine.
Thanks mancich! Definitely looking at the UHD Dell and LG screens in 32"; Dell indeed is a good brand, my dad has a 12 year old one that runs fine, so I will see how obscenely priced they are here ... SSD isn't a big cost, nor do I really require anything massive, RAM is also not a problem; GPU and motherboards are where things get expensive (besides the chipset).
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

iragg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am This is a classic home office/personal use low needs operation ... I want to be able to simultaneously run a few browser windows, some Office programs (where I have 3 windows open side by side for some work) and perhaps watch a YT video or movie at 4K / HDR. The only game I can see myself playing would be Civilization 7 (when it finally comes out - played 5 and 6 on my laptop), and even this would be relatively rare (say once a month). No Photoshop, no rendering, no coding, no compiling - nothing beyond playing Civ 7 when it comes out

Features that are important to me:

1. Having a very quiet desktop - noise drives me nuts :)

2. Long lived desktop with hardware that will enable me to use it with the above profile for a long time - ideally a minimum of 6-7 years

3. My computer will get its internet via Wifi, so anything that ensures a good stable and fast connection

4. Screen-wise - at least 32" and likely nothing larger than 43", able to run 3840x2160 at minimum of 60 Hz and ideally VESA HDR600 or above

I am not a computer "person" by nature, so I won't likely upgrade - simply buy a new rig when Civ 8 comes out in 2031 LOL. I aim to take the specs to a store and have them assemble the desktop for me. Also, I live ex-US so not everything might be available (prices can be 50-100% higher, esp. GPUs).
For your use case, I might go with an AMD mini-PC. The latest generation models actually have decent graphics performance that should be able to run Civ (which has gotten surprisingly graphics intensive as of Civ 6). I don't have any personal experience with them, but the hardware specs look genuinely impressive on paper - here's a link to one review. One caveat: if you're going to keep it for 6-7 years, you will probably want a larger SSD (1TB minimum, preferably 2 TB; these are upgradeable, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, you'll have to pay a shop to do it for you in addition to the cost of the drive).

ETA: Ok, this got me interested in these Ryzen mini-PC's, and it looks like Minisforum has a black friday sale and is taking pre-orders on their own 6900HX model with 1TB SSD for $779. Review can be found here. Again, I have no personal experience with these, but the paper specs look impressive, and is expandable with a 2.5" sata drive.
tortoise84
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

iragg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am I aim to take the specs to a store and have them assemble the desktop for me. Also, I live ex-US so not everything might be available (prices can be 50-100% higher, esp. GPUs).

Thanks!
You don't need a top end CPU so you can get something like an AMD Ryzen 5 5600 on a B550 motherboard. This will also keep the power and heat down so it will be easier to cool. For coolers, Noctuas are good and quiet like the NH-U12A, or NH-U12S Redux. Scythe Fuma 2 Revision B is good too. Or you could get an All-In-One water cooler. I have a 5600X with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm and it's very quiet.

For a graphics card, once again, you don't need anything top end, so something like an AMD Radeon RX 6600 should be fine.

But I think you'll have to put a large proportion of your budget towards your monitor. Here are some suggestions:

LG UltraGear 32GQ950-B. $900 32" 4K IPS 160 Hz HDR 1000.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/32gq950-b

Gigabyte M32U. $578 32" 4K IPS 144 Hz HDR400.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/gigabyte/m32u

Samsung Odyssey Neo G7 S32BG75. $800 32" Curved VA panel 4K 165 Hz Quantum HDR 2000.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... g7-s32bg75
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Mudpuppy »

iragg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am This is a classic home office/personal use low needs operation ... I want to be able to simultaneously run a few browser windows, some Office programs (where I have 3 windows open side by side for some work) and perhaps watch a YT video or movie at 4K / HDR. The only game I can see myself playing would be Civilization 7 (when it finally comes out - played 5 and 6 on my laptop), and even this would be relatively rare (say once a month). No Photoshop, no rendering, no coding, no compiling - nothing beyond playing Civ 7 when it comes out
iragg wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:31 am I am not a computer "person" by nature, so I won't likely upgrade - simply buy a new rig when Civ 8 comes out in 2031 LOL. I aim to take the specs to a store and have them assemble the desktop for me. Also, I live ex-US so not everything might be available (prices can be 50-100% higher, esp. GPUs).
Ah, hello fellow "one stop shopper", as Steam puts it in my profile, for only having purchased Civilization and Kerbal Space Program. You're not going to need something too fancy for this. I'm not sure on international pricing, and I can't give too much specific advice without knowing what region you're in. However, I would say to look for pre-built systems for your needs, if you don't have a specific local store in mind. If Dell ships to your country, I'd second the recommendation for an XPS system with a lower-end discrete GPU. Dell's large monitors are also pretty good quality. I'm using an older Dell 27" monitor currently.
iragg
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by iragg »

Independent George wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:45 am For your use case, I might go with an AMD mini-PC. The latest generation models actually have decent graphics performance that should be able to run Civ (which has gotten surprisingly graphics intensive as of Civ 6). I don't have any personal experience with them, but the hardware specs look genuinely impressive on paper - here's a link to one review. One caveat: if you're going to keep it for 6-7 years, you will probably want a larger SSD (1TB minimum, preferably 2 TB; these are upgradeable, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, you'll have to pay a shop to do it for you in addition to the cost of the drive).

ETA: Ok, this got me interested in these Ryzen mini-PC's, and it looks like Minisforum has a black friday sale and is taking pre-orders on their own 6900HX model with 1TB SSD for $779. Review can be found here. Again, I have no personal experience with these, but the paper specs look impressive, and is expandable with a 2.5" sata drive.
Seems like a value combo. These aren't sold in my neck of the woods but will definitely look into them further!
Mudpuppy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:21 pm Ah, hello fellow "one stop shopper", as Steam puts it in my profile, for only having purchased Civilization and Kerbal Space Program. You're not going to need something too fancy for this. I'm not sure on international pricing, and I can't give too much specific advice without knowing what region you're in. However, I would say to look for pre-built systems for your needs, if you don't have a specific local store in mind. If Dell ships to your country, I'd second the recommendation for an XPS system with a lower-end discrete GPU. Dell's large monitors are also pretty good quality. I'm using an older Dell 27" monitor currently.
LOL, one stop shopper here indeed! I know, but running Civ 6 now is a pain on my current set-up. Luckily, I am just waiting for Civ 7 to come out and the real impetus is just better screen / better set-up to take advantage of said screen.

Country specific would be too much info :D but I did mention prices are usually 50-100% higher than in the US - we have local reps of these companies and suffice to say they take a hefty cut, but c'est la vie.
tortoise84 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:22 pm You don't need a top end CPU so you can get something like an AMD Ryzen 5 5600 on a B550 motherboard. This will also keep the power and heat down so it will be easier to cool. For coolers, Noctuas are good and quiet like the NH-U12A, or NH-U12S Redux. Scythe Fuma 2 Revision B is good too. Or you could get an All-In-One water cooler. I have a 5600X with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm and it's very quiet.

For a graphics card, once again, you don't need anything top end, so something like an AMD Radeon RX 6600 should be fine.

But I think you'll have to put a large proportion of your budget towards your monitor. Here are some suggestions:

LG UltraGear 32GQ950-B. $900 32" 4K IPS 160 Hz HDR 1000.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/32gq950-b

Gigabyte M32U. $578 32" 4K IPS 144 Hz HDR400.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/gigabyte/m32u

Samsung Odyssey Neo G7 S32BG75. $800 32" Curved VA panel 4K 165 Hz Quantum HDR 2000.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... g7-s32bg75
[ quotes fixed by admin LadyGeek]
I like the specs on the LG UltraGear best, but its over 1,800 USD here. The 27" version isn't nearly as good and is too small for my needs ... I do agree the screen is critical but without a decent GPU/motherboard, I'll be stuck. The specs you mention are more or less what I thought about. Th5 Ryzen 5 5600X is only 40$ more than the 5600 so I might splurge :) however, finding a decently priced motherboard isn't as easy ... oh well, at least I know what to look for.

Much appreciated everyone!
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Mudpuppy »

iragg wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:36 am LOL, one stop shopper here indeed! I know, but running Civ 6 now is a pain on my current set-up. Luckily, I am just waiting for Civ 7 to come out and the real impetus is just better screen / better set-up to take advantage of said screen.
I'm currently playing Civ6 on a 27" monitor. The system is an Intel i5-4570S CPU (4 cores @ 2.9GHz normal / 3.6 GHz turbo), LGA 1150 motherboard, and 16GB of DDR3 1600 RAM with 9-9-9-24 timings. Originally, I was using a AMD R9 270 GPU, but now I have a NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 GPU for that system. It works pretty well for the graphics the game throws at it. Most of my slow-downs are in huge maps with a lot of AI civilizations and city-states, which would be more from the CPU and RAM.

Since all we know about Civ7 right now is leaks, it's hard to say what sort of GPU, CPU, and RAM will be needed, but I don't think it will need to be too powerful based on my experiences with Civ6.

Off topic aside: I just got over 70% completion on the Civ6 achievements, so I'm not only a one stop shopper, I'm a very slow gamer too. I only play Civ6 on vacations essentially, when I can devote a large chunk of the day to strategizing. But that also means I really stress-test the system with my gaming sessions, and it holds up reasonably well.
iragg wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:36 am I like the specs on the LG UltraGear best, but its over 1,800 USD here. The 27" version isn't nearly as good and is too small for my needs ... I do agree the screen is critical but without a decent GPU/motherboard, I'll be stuck. The specs you mention are more or less what I thought about. Th5 Ryzen 5 5600X is only 40$ more than the 5600 so I might splurge :) however, finding a decently priced motherboard isn't as easy ... oh well, at least I know what to look for.
Dell has some curved gaming and regular flat monitors in the 32-34" range that are under $500 in stateside pricing. I've never personally tried those particular model lines though to say how good/bad they might be. The monitor series I've used is the U line. The 30" and 32" monitors in the U line start at around $800 stateside, so similar in pricing to the previous list.

And if you're wanting custom-built but don't want to build it yourself (as you expressed previously), you should start with finding the shop that will assemble the system. I don't know how it works in your country, but around here, the shop buys everything and assembles it, rather than you dropping off a pallet of parts for them to assemble. They might also work off a limited part list, based on what deals they can get with their suppliers and/or bulk purchases they've done. So you might not have the full range of motherboards, CPUs, GPUs, etc. to choose from.
iragg
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:13 am

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by iragg »

Mudpuppy wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:48 pm
iragg wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:36 am LOL, one stop shopper here indeed! I know, but running Civ 6 now is a pain on my current set-up. Luckily, I am just waiting for Civ 7 to come out and the real impetus is just better screen / better set-up to take advantage of said screen.
I'm currently playing Civ6 on a 27" monitor. The system is an Intel i5-4570S CPU (4 cores @ 2.9GHz normal / 3.6 GHz turbo), LGA 1150 motherboard, and 16GB of DDR3 1600 RAM with 9-9-9-24 timings. Originally, I was using a AMD R9 270 GPU, but now I have a NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 GPU for that system. It works pretty well for the graphics the game throws at it. Most of my slow-downs are in huge maps with a lot of AI civilizations and city-states, which would be more from the CPU and RAM.

Since all we know about Civ7 right now is leaks, it's hard to say what sort of GPU, CPU, and RAM will be needed, but I don't think it will need to be too powerful based on my experiences with Civ6.

Off topic aside: I just got over 70% completion on the Civ6 achievements, so I'm not only a one stop shopper, I'm a very slow gamer too. I only play Civ6 on vacations essentially, when I can devote a large chunk of the day to strategizing. But that also means I really stress-test the system with my gaming sessions, and it holds up reasonably well.
iragg wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:36 am I like the specs on the LG UltraGear best, but its over 1,800 USD here. The 27" version isn't nearly as good and is too small for my needs ... I do agree the screen is critical but without a decent GPU/motherboard, I'll be stuck. The specs you mention are more or less what I thought about. Th5 Ryzen 5 5600X is only 40$ more than the 5600 so I might splurge :) however, finding a decently priced motherboard isn't as easy ... oh well, at least I know what to look for.
Dell has some curved gaming and regular flat monitors in the 32-34" range that are under $500 in stateside pricing. I've never personally tried those particular model lines though to say how good/bad they might be. The monitor series I've used is the U line. The 30" and 32" monitors in the U line start at around $800 stateside, so similar in pricing to the previous list.

And if you're wanting custom-built but don't want to build it yourself (as you expressed previously), you should start with finding the shop that will assemble the system. I don't know how it works in your country, but around here, the shop buys everything and assembles it, rather than you dropping off a pallet of parts for them to assemble. They might also work off a limited part list, based on what deals they can get with their suppliers and/or bulk purchases they've done. So you might not have the full range of motherboards, CPUs, GPUs, etc. to choose from.
I get slowdowns even on normal sized maps with 8 civs, but then your set up is definitely more powerful. Back in the day I needed a laptop for business, and it had the specs to run Civ 5 well, so I was happy with my purchase. Now I don't need the portability ....

SImilar to the LGs, the Dell U monitors are on my list but pricing here is again double the US, so about $1500-1600 per monitor. I guess I will just have to bite the bullet; ideally, I can hold off a few more months and perhaps the advent of more OLED screens will reduce the price of these IPS panels.

I think Civ 7 will be more graphically demanding than 6 - GPUs have come a long was in the past 6-7 years, lots of people have 2K/4K screens, so I do expect them to make the game more interactive; also a higher refresh rate screen will mean smoother map scrolling, etc, better unit definition (e.g. GDR versus city/archers combat lol). However, I your current GPU is likely plenty good enough - as you said, the bottleneck is the processor/motherboard.

I essentially do the same thing as you - play when I have time for it, so I do stress out the system. Seventy percent completion is super! I will look out for the Dell screens as well :) thanks!

Computers are installed the same way here
cellisto
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:07 am

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by cellisto »

Independent George wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:45 am For your use case, I might go with an AMD mini-PC. The latest generation models actually have decent graphics performance that should be able to run Civ (which has gotten surprisingly graphics intensive as of Civ 6). I don't have any personal experience with them, but the hardware specs look genuinely impressive on paper - here's a link to one review. One caveat: if you're going to keep it for 6-7 years, you will probably want a larger SSD (1TB minimum, preferably 2 TB; these are upgradeable, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, you'll have to pay a shop to do it for you in addition to the cost of the drive).

ETA: Ok, this got me interested in these Ryzen mini-PC's, and it looks like Minisforum has a black friday sale and is taking pre-orders on their own 6900HX model with 1TB SSD for $779. Review can be found here. Again, I have no personal experience with these, but the paper specs look impressive, and is expandable with a 2.5" sata drive.
Thanks for this link. My 7 year old PC just died (I think fried MOBO, No beep code or POST and fans full blast when turned on) 2 weeks ago and I was looking for replacements. I wanted to give Apple a go this time around with their mini M1, but seeing your link makes me question going Apple ecosystem. When I look up comparison between M1 and Ryzen 9 6900HX it looks to me pretty close. I know this is the PC build thread, but is the Minisforum a better buy in the fact that it is upgradeable in the future whereas the Mac mini M1 is fixed spec so to speak?
tortoise84
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

iragg wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:36 am I like the specs on the LG UltraGear best, but its over 1,800 USD here. The 27" version isn't nearly as good and is too small for my needs ... I do agree the screen is critical but without a decent GPU/motherboard, I'll be stuck. The specs you mention are more or less what I thought about. Th5 Ryzen 5 5600X is only 40$ more than the 5600 so I might splurge :) however, finding a decently priced motherboard isn't as easy ... oh well, at least I know what to look for.

Much appreciated everyone!
I forgot to mention that a Radeon RX 6600 is probably not powerful enough to run the latest games at a native 4K resolution. That would require something like a GeForce 3080 Ti or 4090. However, you have the option to run at 1080p which scales at exactly 2x to 4K so there is no pixel interpolation. Or, if the game supports it, you can use AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) to render at a lower resolution and then upscale to 4K, which doesn't require as much GPU processing power.
Topic Author
Independent George
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

cellisto wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 am Thanks for this link. My 7 year old PC just died (I think fried MOBO, No beep code or POST and fans full blast when turned on) 2 weeks ago and I was looking for replacements. I wanted to give Apple a go this time around with their mini M1, but seeing your link makes me question going Apple ecosystem. When I look up comparison between M1 and Ryzen 9 6900HX it looks to me pretty close. I know this is the PC build thread, but is the Minisforum a better buy in the fact that it is upgradeable in the future whereas the Mac mini M1 is fixed spec so to speak?
The Minisforum is more upgradeable than the Apple Mini, but not fully upgradeable. I believe the APU is soldered into the motherboard, and even if it weren't, it uses liquid metal as the thermal compound for cooling. I would not recommend the average user to muck about with that - even I won't touch the stuff. That said, the memory sticks and the SSD slots will all be upgradeable in the PC. I'd also highly recommend at least 32 GB of memory, as it will be shared between the CPU and the integrated graphics.

I have to admit - I kind of want one just to play with even though I have no use for it.
tortoise84 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:39 pm I forgot to mention that a Radeon RX 6600 is probably not powerful enough to run the latest games at a native 4K resolution. That would require something like a GeForce 3080 Ti or 4090. However, you have the option to run at 1080p which scales at exactly 2x to 4K so there is no pixel interpolation. Or, if the game supports it, you can use AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution (FSR) to render at a lower resolution and then upscale to 4K, which doesn't require as much GPU processing power.
He's not playing AAA games at max settings; he specifically mentioned Civ, for which the 6600 is far, far more than adequate. My old RX580 could handle Civ6 in 4k; even allowing for Civ 7 being more demanding, it's still a turn-based strategy game and a 6600 will likewise be more than enough.
Mudpuppy
Posts: 6992
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Location: Sunny California

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Mudpuppy »

cellisto wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 am
Independent George wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:45 am For your use case, I might go with an AMD mini-PC. The latest generation models actually have decent graphics performance that should be able to run Civ (which has gotten surprisingly graphics intensive as of Civ 6). I don't have any personal experience with them, but the hardware specs look genuinely impressive on paper - here's a link to one review. One caveat: if you're going to keep it for 6-7 years, you will probably want a larger SSD (1TB minimum, preferably 2 TB; these are upgradeable, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, you'll have to pay a shop to do it for you in addition to the cost of the drive).

ETA: Ok, this got me interested in these Ryzen mini-PC's, and it looks like Minisforum has a black friday sale and is taking pre-orders on their own 6900HX model with 1TB SSD for $779. Review can be found here. Again, I have no personal experience with these, but the paper specs look impressive, and is expandable with a 2.5" sata drive.
Thanks for this link. My 7 year old PC just died (I think fried MOBO, No beep code or POST and fans full blast when turned on) 2 weeks ago and I was looking for replacements. I wanted to give Apple a go this time around with their mini M1, but seeing your link makes me question going Apple ecosystem. When I look up comparison between M1 and Ryzen 9 6900HX it looks to me pretty close. I know this is the PC build thread, but is the Minisforum a better buy in the fact that it is upgradeable in the future whereas the Mac mini M1 is fixed spec so to speak?
Another thing to keep in mind is that using an ARM chipset (M1 and M2 are ARM chips) in a desktop/laptop format is a relatively recent thing. Previously, the desktop realm was dominated by Intel and AMD chips, which have a very different architecture under the hood. As such, you'll have to look closely at the software that you use and see if it has been ported to the M1/M2 architecture. Then you also have to look closely at if it will run the software effectively and efficiently. For example, reference this recent article on gaming on the M1/M2 chipset, which comes to the conclusion that "It's complicated": https://www.wired.com/story/is-apples-m ... for-games/
tortoise84
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

Independent George wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:13 pm He's not playing AAA games at max settings; he specifically mentioned Civ, for which the 6600 is far, far more than adequate. My old RX580 could handle Civ6 in 4k; even allowing for Civ 7 being more demanding, it's still a turn-based strategy game and a 6600 will likewise be more than enough.
I know, but I wanted to give realistic expectations in case he tries one of the latest games in the future on the very expensive 4K monitors that were recommended.
gavinsiu
Posts: 1151
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

I gotten enough part to start a build. What's build so far

Corsair 4000D case
MSI B550 A-Pro Am4 motherboard
AMD 5600
32 Gb RAM
Enermax Revolution DF 650W gold

I haven't build one of these in a while so I had to look up a lot of stuff. Things that were unexpectedly difficult
1. The I/O Shield is particularly hard to snap into place. It's also annoying with lots of sharp pointy things. I think I got it done. I have to check if those tab things are blocking any ports tomorrow.
2. The PSU seems to go into its own space these days. The space is a tight fit. When I push the PSU in, I had trouble getting it back out. Fortunately, I got the orientation properly.
3. The CPU install had like 5 or six different configuration. What it appears is that I have to install the cpu, then close the arm and make sure it's catches. Remove the hooks around the cpu and then screw in the included cooler. It's unclear to me how much to tight it. I stopped when it look like the screw sleeve expanded.
4. The instruction isn't exactly clear on which cable goes where. I was able to figure out the big main cable.
5. I need to figure out how to hook up the case fans. They seemed to connect to a 3 pin connector but the system fan connecting is using 4 pins.

Will work on it some more tomorrow. The kids are impressed by the appearance but was not too interested in the build. I suppose I can check if they are more interested tomorrow. They might be too young.
Nekrotok
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Nekrotok »

gavinsiu wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:01 am I gotten enough part to start a build. What's build so far

Corsair 4000D case
MSI B550 A-Pro Am4 motherboard
AMD 5600
32 Gb RAM
Enermax Revolution DF 650W gold

I haven't build one of these in a while so I had to look up a lot of stuff. Things that were unexpectedly difficult
1. The I/O Shield is particularly hard to snap into place. It's also annoying with lots of sharp pointy things. I think I got it done. I have to check if those tab things are blocking any ports tomorrow.
2. The PSU seems to go into its own space these days. The space is a tight fit. When I push the PSU in, I had trouble getting it back out. Fortunately, I got the orientation properly.
3. The CPU install had like 5 or six different configuration. What it appears is that I have to install the cpu, then close the arm and make sure it's catches. Remove the hooks around the cpu and then screw in the included cooler. It's unclear to me how much to tight it. I stopped when it look like the screw sleeve expanded.
4. The instruction isn't exactly clear on which cable goes where. I was able to figure out the big main cable.
5. I need to figure out how to hook up the case fans. They seemed to connect to a 3 pin connector but the system fan connecting is using 4 pins.

Will work on it some more tomorrow. The kids are impressed by the appearance but was not too interested in the build. I suppose I can check if they are more interested tomorrow. They might be too young.
1. I'd recommend using a small flathead screwdriver and pushing all 4 sides of the io shield to make sure it's fully seated. This must be installed before the motherboard is installed in the case.
2. Looks like your case has a dedicated psu shroud. I don't have any experience with this unfortunately but maybe someone else does.
3. For the included amd wraith stealth cooler your steps sound right. Pretty sure you just fully screw in the screws until there's a hard stop, though. Not sure what you mean about a screw sleeve.
4. Besides the 24-pin, there's also an 8pin CPU power cable that plugs into a socket on the top left area of your board. You'll also have a 8pin GPU power cable for your GPU. The cables are usually labeled but you can also tell them apart as the CPU cable is 4+4pin and the GPU cable is 6+2pin. They also have slightly different shape pins so they won't fit on the wrong socket. Your motherboard instruction manual should include info about this as well as lots of other stuff that plugs into the motherboard (USB headers, front panel audio, ssd, power/reset buttons and leds).
5. 3pin fans fit fine on 4pin headers on the motherboard. The 4th pin is an optional PWM signal for controlling fan speed. You can configure your motherboard to control fan speed by adjusting the voltage instead for 3pin fans if they're too loud.

Good luck on the rest of your build. I hope you also have a gpu, ssd, and a USB drive to install your OS 🙂 (I think I saw you mention an rx 6600).

Btw, make sure you press extra hard on the ram sticks and double check they're fully seated. It's very common to only have them mostly seated and run into weird instability issues.
gavinsiu
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

Nekrotok wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:16 am
1. I'd recommend using a small flathead screwdriver and pushing all 4 sides of the io shield to make sure it's fully seated. This must be installed before the motherboard is installed in the case.
2. Looks like your case has a dedicated psu shroud. I don't have any experience with this unfortunately but maybe someone else does.
3. For the included amd wraith stealth cooler your steps sound right. Pretty sure you just fully screw in the screws until there's a hard stop, though. Not sure what you mean about a screw sleeve.
4. Besides the 24-pin, there's also an 8pin CPU power cable that plugs into a socket on the top left area of your board. You'll also have a 8pin GPU power cable for your GPU. The cables are usually labeled but you can also tell them apart as the CPU cable is 4+4pin and the GPU cable is 6+2pin. They also have slightly different shape pins so they won't fit on the wrong socket. Your motherboard instruction manual should include info about this as well as lots of other stuff that plugs into the motherboard (USB headers, front panel audio, ssd, power/reset buttons and leds).
5. 3pin fans fit fine on 4pin headers on the motherboard. The 4th pin is an optional PWM signal for controlling fan speed. You can configure your motherboard to control fan speed by adjusting the voltage instead for 3pin fans if they're too loud.

Good luck on the rest of your build. I hope you also have a gpu, ssd, and a USB drive to install your OS 🙂 (I think I saw you mention an rx 6600).

Btw, make sure you press extra hard on the ram sticks and double check they're fully seated. It's very common to only have them mostly seated and run into weird instability issues.
Thanks!
Upon further inspection, I realize I have to remove the MB board and fix the shield. One of the tab on the shield is blocking the board.

I do have a Samsung SSD in the 2.5 form factor. I figure out the weird bracket were for 2.5 drives.
Topic Author
Independent George
Posts: 1549
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

gavinsiu wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:01 am I haven't build one of these in a while so I had to look up a lot of stuff. Things that were unexpectedly difficult
1. The I/O Shield is particularly hard to snap into place. It's also annoying with lots of sharp pointy things. I think I got it done. I have to check if those tab things are blocking any ports tomorrow.
2. The PSU seems to go into its own space these days. The space is a tight fit. When I push the PSU in, I had trouble getting it back out. Fortunately, I got the orientation properly.
3. The CPU install had like 5 or six different configuration. What it appears is that I have to install the cpu, then close the arm and make sure it's catches. Remove the hooks around the cpu and then screw in the included cooler. It's unclear to me how much to tight it. I stopped when it look like the screw sleeve expanded.
4. The instruction isn't exactly clear on which cable goes where. I was able to figure out the big main cable.
5. I need to figure out how to hook up the case fans. They seemed to connect to a 3 pin connector but the system fan connecting is using 4 pins.
You're already 90% done with your build, so this will be a bit late, but I have some general advice:

1. Many motherboards these days have an integral I/O shield which doesn't require fitting. It's generally not something worth paying extra for, but when you're doing your shopping, it's a nice convenience feature for comparably priced boards. I consider a BIOS flashback button a must-have.
2. This depends on the case - some are more generous with spacing, some are less. Fortunately, the ATX form factor is pretty standard now so they should all be interchangable.
3. I like to install the CPU cooler before screwing the motherboard into case - really, do as much as possible out in the open before working within the tight confines of the case, especially if you see there's going to be a tight fit for a cable header. Modular cables are really useful for this, as you can plug it into the board and then route it later at your convenience. A general piece of advice is to try and tighten each screw one turn at a time, so that you have even pressure across all of them. You don't need to push too hard - many coolers are spring-tensioned to prevent over-torquing.
4. These should be spelled out in both the motherboard manual and PSU manual. The hardest one is the front i/o header, because the setup is different for each case/motheboard. The individual wires will be labeled, but it can be difficult to get them all lined up properly. I strongly recommend (1) using electrical tape to put them in the proper spots, and (2) plugging it into the motherboard before screwing the board into into the case, as it can get quite cramped.
5. 3-pin fans are compatible with the 4-pin connectors, but they will have a fixed RPM; the 4th pin controls the RPM and lets you set up a custom fan curve. This is most common with cases that come with pre-installed fans - they manufacturer won't know if the user has 4-pin or 3-pin headers on the motherboard, so they include 3-pin fans since they will automatically be compatible.
tortoise84
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

Independent George wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:08 pm 5. 3-pin fans are compatible with the 4-pin connectors, but they will have a fixed RPM; the 4th pin controls the RPM and lets you set up a custom fan curve. This is most common with cases that come with pre-installed fans - they manufacturer won't know if the user has 4-pin or 3-pin headers on the motherboard, so they include 3-pin fans since they will automatically be compatible.
You can still control the speed of 3-pin fans, except it is done by voltage, instead of Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) for 4-pin fans. Some motherboards can autodetect between 3- and 4-pin, while others need to be switched manually in the BIOS.
tortoise84
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

tortoise84 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:18 am AMD has already started to discount their Zen 4 CPUs so I decided to upgrade my 5600X to:

$221.61 Ryzen 5 7600X
$133.49 ASRock B650M PG Riptide AM5 Micro-ATX motherboard
$115.69 Team T-Force Vulcan 2x16GB DDR5-5600 CL36 RAM
=======
$470.79 from Newegg with Zip Pay 11% off code ZIP11

All other components I will just carry over from my current PC.
I installed these parts. Initial tests in MSFS2020 and Cinebench R23 show a 20-30% increase in performance over my 5600X, which I think is pretty good for a one generation upgrade.

I also upgraded my CPU cooler to an EK AIO 240mm D-RGB. As expected the 7600X still runs hot at around 83C in Cinebench multicore. But that's below the Tjmax of 95C so there's still some headroom. I increased the boost override by 100 MHz to 5.55 GHz, and started off with a Curve Optimizer of -10 on all cores. I'll see how far I can push it. PPT hit around 108 W which is not too far off the quoted TDP of 105 W, but actually still below the default PPT limit of 142 W.
keith6014
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by keith6014 »

Purchased a AMD RYZEN 5 5600 CPU and waiting for my motherboard which will take 2 months to delivery. I don't want to wait that long.

What are some other good motherboards for this processor? I have a mid tower case BTW.
Topic Author
Independent George
Posts: 1549
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

keith6014 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:26 pm Purchased a AMD RYZEN 5 5600 CPU and waiting for my motherboard which will take 2 months to delivery. I don't want to wait that long.

What are some other good motherboards for this processor? I have a mid tower case BTW.
A couple quick questions:

Does your case support an ATX (full-sized), or micro-ATX (medium-sized) sized board? Mid-towers come in different sizes - most, but not all, support full ATX boards. You can fit an mATX board into an ATX case, but not the other way around.

Do you care about bluetooth? Some boards come with integral wireless/bluetooth and cost about an extra $10-$20 more than standard models. I didn't think I needed it when I built my PC; when I realized I did, I purchased two different aftermarket adapters - and I was unable to get either of them to work properly. After many headaches, I ended up buying a whole new board. Even after selling my old board, cheaping out on $20 cost me an extra $100 and many hours of troubleshooting.

As a general rule, you probably want a B550 board at around $150, but pricing varies. The X570 boards have more features at a higher cost, but most people don't actually use those features. Nevertheless, they've been out long enough that some of the more expensive B550 boards now cost the same (or more) than some of the cheaper X570 boards; when that happens, it's probably worth getting the X570.

What's the difference between them? X570 boards support more PCIE lanes, so you generally get more fast USB 3.2 connections in X570 than in a B550 board, and often more m.2 drive slots. If you're connecting a lot of peripherals or using a lot of drives, then X570 is more suitable. But, again, it depends primarily on cost. When I upgraded my mobo, the X570 board (Gigabyte Aorus Pro AX) only cost $20 more than the equivalent B550 model (which was only wireless AC). The best choice depends mostly on price, which fluctuates. I don't need the third m.2 slot on my new board, but for only a $20 price difference, it made sense for me.
gavinsiu
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:42 pm

Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

Finally got a bit of time and cobble together a PC using a combination of old and new parts.

Corsair 4000D case
Enermax D.F. Revolution PSU Gold 80+ 650W
MSI B550 Apro
AMD Ryzen 5600
AMD Rx6600 GPU
32 Gb DDR4 RAM
Samsung 850 1 TB SSD

The steps I did was;
1. Prep the motherboard and CPU. Attached the CPU, heatsink and RAM.
2. Install the PSU into the case. It would be a good idea to identity which cable needed first and attached them if the PSU is modular. This is because the case had a psu shroud and is really a pain to get to once the PSU is installed. In my case, I had the standard 24 pin, the cpu, pci-e for the graphics card, and power to SATA.
3. Install the motherboard, which involves installing the IO shield, then the board. The IO shields has a bunch of tabs. Make sure none of the ports are blocked by the tabs before you screw the motherboard in. Before installing the motherboard note that the standoff's match the board and note where the screws are.
4. Install the SSD. This took me a while to figure out because on this case, there is a place you can hang the SSD. In future I might just install a M2 SSD module, which is faster and has less cabling.
5. Install the cable. This is where things get dicey. The main 24 pin is pretty obvious where it goes. The audio connectors were obvious, but there were two unknown connector which turned out to be USB. There were a bunch of leads for power switch, LED, and reset switch which were tricky to put in because the + and - are not label on the board so I had to consult the manual. The leads that are + has an arrow. Putting in wrong means the computer won't turn on. The fan header were a bit tricky since the fan were 3 pin while the connector on the MB had 4. I had to figure out which pin to skip.
6. Booted PC to make sure everything is spinning and then turned it off.
7. Install the GPU and got a duh moment when I couldn't plug the GPU card, but this was because I forgot to remove the plastic shroud covering the card.
8. Hooked up to the TV and attached some keyboard and mouse and started it.

Much to my surprise the computer booted and did not say that windows need activating. The drive comes from an old Dell that died one day and I figure I would need to reinstall windows and get a license because it's OEM, but instead it just said that the license is tied to my MS account.

I installed Steam on it and had the kids test it by running Totally Accurate Battle simulator. Previously the game ran poorly because all of the computers I have use iGPUS.

I plan to clean up the cabling and close up the box.

Any suggestion of games for Grade School kids? The kids requested a game call Strays. I took a quick look and it appears to be some sort of Cat simulator. Judging from the graphics, I wondered if I should have gotten a higher spec machine. Will investigate.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Mudpuppy »

gavinsiu wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:29 pm Any suggestion of games for Grade School kids? The kids requested a game call Strays. I took a quick look and it appears to be some sort of Cat simulator. Judging from the graphics, I wondered if I should have gotten a higher spec machine. Will investigate.
The recommended GPU for Strays is a Radeon R9 290X. Your RX 6600 should be fine with that game.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

Mudpuppy wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:45 pm The recommended GPU for Strays is a Radeon R9 290X. Your RX 6600 should be fine with that game.
Thanks. I just realized the PC doesn't come with bluetooth. What would be the best solution for desktop? A USB bluetooth adapter? One issue I might encounter might the range. It would be about 10-20 feet away. Typically when I use bluetooth stuff, it's right next to me.

Is buying game off Stream the best bet these days.I often avoid buying digital because you don't seemed to own the product.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

gavinsiu wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:12 pm Thanks. I just realized the PC doesn't come with bluetooth. What would be the best solution for desktop? A USB bluetooth adapter? One issue I might encounter might the range. It would be about 10-20 feet away. Typically when I use bluetooth stuff, it's right next to me.

Is buying game off Stream the best bet these days.I often avoid buying digital because you don't seemed to own the product.
Yes, a USB Bluetooth adapter can be bought for around $10. Or if you're also using Wi-Fi, there are PCIe adapters that do both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, e.g.:
WiFi 5 AC1200 for $30: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Bluetoot ... 084JPFKQ5/
WiFi 6 AX3000 for $40: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Archer-T ... 0B1NRGDQ4/

Buying games, then downloading them through an online store is normal these days, and Steam is probably the biggest store. I don't mind it because it keeps all your games in your account, and you can login with different PCs and install them where you want, although usually you can only login and play on one device at a time.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

tortoise84 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:45 am
tortoise84 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:18 am AMD has already started to discount their Zen 4 CPUs so I decided to upgrade my 5600X to:

$221.61 Ryzen 5 7600X
$133.49 ASRock B650M PG Riptide AM5 Micro-ATX motherboard
$115.69 Team T-Force Vulcan 2x16GB DDR5-5600 CL36 RAM
=======
$470.79 from Newegg with Zip Pay 11% off code ZIP11

All other components I will just carry over from my current PC.
I installed these parts. Initial tests in MSFS2020 and Cinebench R23 show a 20-30% increase in performance over my 5600X, which I think is pretty good for a one generation upgrade.

I also upgraded my CPU cooler to an EK AIO 240mm D-RGB. As expected the 7600X still runs hot at around 83C in Cinebench multicore. But that's below the Tjmax of 95C so there's still some headroom. I increased the boost override by 100 MHz to 5.55 GHz, and started off with a Curve Optimizer of -10 on all cores. I'll see how far I can push it. PPT hit around 108 W which is not too far off the quoted TDP of 105 W, but actually still below the default PPT limit of 142 W.
I've been tweaking my 7600X and fans some more. I actually replaced the fans on the EK AIO 240mm with two Arctic P12 PWMs which are much quieter. Got the Curve Optimizer down to -30, and Boost Override to +200 Mhz. Cinebench R23 multi core score was 15646. Temps peaked at 75C, all cores were at 5.45 GHz, Package Power 95 W.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

tortoise84 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:10 pm Yes, a USB Bluetooth adapter can be bought for around $10. Or if you're also using Wi-Fi, there are PCIe adapters that do both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, e.g.:
WiFi 5 AC1200 for $30: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Bluetoot ... 084JPFKQ5/
WiFi 6 AX3000 for $40: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Archer-T ... 0B1NRGDQ4/

Buying games, then downloading them through an online store is normal these days, and Steam is probably the biggest store. I don't mind it because it keeps all your games in your account, and you can login with different PCs and install them where you want, although usually you can only login and play on one device at a time.
Thanks, I got the cheaper wifi one because I am running the machine through ethernet. I will buy things through Steam theses day since it appears to be trustworthy.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by gavinsiu »

Any good program for benchmarking the cpu and gpu so I can tune it? I am currently running Furmark to stress test gpu. I figure I could use prime95 to stress test the cpu.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

From an earlier post:
LadyGeek wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:23 pm ...
- Ran Prime95 and saw my CPU temperature go to 84 deg C. I got concerned and stopped after a few minutes. Nothing crashed, I just didn't like the temperature. Temperature is monitored with Core Temp.

GPU tools -
- MSI Afterburner - temperature monitoring and overclocking. I'm not touching anything in my GPU - I'll never find a replacement if anything goes south. :) I'm using the tool as a temperature monitor.
- MSI Kombustor - stress test and benchmark. Awesome at 3840 x 2160 8-). The GPU was running at 69 deg C.

Folding@home - One of my main applications that fully loads both the CPU and GPU. The CPU and GPU each had a work unit to chew on. The test ran for a few hours until the work units were complete.
...
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Nekrotok »

gavinsiu wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:29 pm Any suggestion of games for Grade School kids? The kids requested a game call Strays. I took a quick look and it appears to be some sort of Cat simulator. Judging from the graphics, I wondered if I should have gotten a higher spec machine. Will investigate.
It takes two
Plants vs zombies
Overcooked 2
Kerbal space program
Battleblock theater
Scribblenauts
Minecraft
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

gavinsiu wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:49 am Any good program for benchmarking the cpu and gpu so I can tune it? I am currently running Furmark to stress test gpu. I figure I could use prime95 to stress test the cpu.
For CPU I use Cinebench R23. It's easy to look up results online or in YouTube reviews to make sure your PC is performing about where it should be.

For tweaking, I run Cinebench R23 to load up all the cores, and monitor with HWiNFO. Look at the CPU temps, clock frequencies, and power/current draw (TDC, EDC, PPT). For a Ryzen Zen 3 or later you can use the Curve Optimizer in your BIOS or through the Ryzen Master app to reduce the voltage, which will also reduce power draw and heat, or allow higher clock frequencies to be reached. If you see that you are hitting the TDC, EDC or PPT limits in HWiNFO, but you still have some thermal headroom, then you can try increasing those limits with the Precision Boost Overdrive feature, also in the BIOS or Ryzen Master.

I ran my 5600X for over a year and it was stable with Curve Optimizer -25, PBO limits: TDC 80 A, EDC 125 A, PPT 128 W, Boost Override +50 MHz (4.7 GHz).

GPU tuning follows similar principles of tuning the voltage to frequency curve, and increasing power limits, while managing temperatures. For a Radeon, there should be settings to do this in the Adrenalin software.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

I made a video in Flight Sim 2020 flying over NY, comparing the 7600X (64 fps, +25%) vs 5600X (51 fps) with a GeForce 3080 Ti.

https://youtu.be/y2l5n-YMnAw
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

Some pics of my 7600X build and the PC Part Picker list: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/d89NnQ

Image

Image

Image
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

I've been looking more and more at mini PC's, and holy cow they've come a long way. They're not upgradeable to the same extent as tower PC with a discrete GPU, but the models with mobile GPUs are shockingly powerful for such a small, quiet form factor. Here's a review for a Minisforum HX90G, sub-$1,000 box that is comparable to a lot of low-end prebuilts but with better build quality.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Mudpuppy »

gavinsiu wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:48 am I will buy things through Steam theses day since it appears to be trustworthy.
If you haven't bought Stray for your kids yet, it's on sale for 20% off this week. I viewed it during some summer promotional event, so Steam just sent me an email about it being on sale.
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