Does death book NEED account numbers?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
hudson
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by hudson »

tadamsmar wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:51 am
My death "book" is literally 1 side of one sheet of paper, with a copy in my safe deposit box.

I mainly list the companies (banks, custodians).
Same here. My list is 1/2 page.

Once a year on Ground Hogs Day, I...
Update my Boglehead financial plan.
Update my 1/2 page list of accounts with balances in a lock box in the house. I think that I'll add a USB drive with full account information including tax returns and RMD info. I know that's not necessary, RMD info can be somewhat useful.
Send an email to key folks with a short note and 3 pictures.

With the email and the pics they can get into the lock box in the house and into a safe deposit box with final papers.

Thanks OP for the post because, this post refreshed my memory. I saw that my account list was out of date.
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tadamsmar
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by tadamsmar »

hudson wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:42 am
tadamsmar wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:51 am
My death "book" is literally 1 side of one sheet of paper, with a copy in my safe deposit box.

I mainly list the companies (banks, custodians).
Same here. My list is 1/2 page.

Once a year on Ground Hogs Day, I...
Update my Boglehead financial plan.
Update my 1/2 page list of accounts with balances in a lock box in the house. I think that I'll add a USB drive with full account information including tax returns and RMD info. I know that's not necessary, RMD info can be somewhat useful.
Send an email to key folks with a short note and 3 pictures.

With the email and the pics they can get into the lock box in the house and into a safe deposit box with final papers.

Thanks OP for the post because, this post refreshed my memory. I saw that my account list was out of date.
We have 401Ks and a pension fund with previous employers. The employers have a pesky habit of changing the custodian so I have to update that as needed. And sometimes, I do something that causes a change.

Your executor does need to know at least how things stand with the RMDs, RMDs should be addressed before April 1 after you die. But it may be possible to get the IRS to not penalize being late with RMDs.

I (and my wife) recently read this good short book on managing finances after the death of a spouse:

https://obliviousinvestor.com/new-book- ... g-spouses/

Based on that, I decided that the most urgent thing might be where to get money to replenish the checking account (and I plan to start keeping more cash in the checking account). After that, it seems that the most pressing deadline is that April 1 date -- RMDs and tax filings or extensions.

The book stressed that a grieving spouse should probably should not rush into non-urgent matters.

I am trying to set things up so that my spouse can put off dealing with most of the stuff in the death "book".
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tadamsmar
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by tadamsmar »

Here's an article on dealing with credit cards after a death, with some advice that I have not seen elsewhere:

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-expe ... it%20terms.
ThankYouJack
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by ThankYouJack »

Does it also make sense to store your death/ survivor information sheet with your attorney who has your will? Granted that version may not be updated as regularly (I review/update mine once a year) but seems like a good backup place that a survivor could easily access.
Patzer
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Patzer »

My death book just has account locations and the types of accounts. I.e. JPM Brokerage.
One exception. I do list the account number of my Treasury Direct account. Not sure if it's a solid reason, but I just suspect the government will be harder to deal with and less customer friendly.

One really helpful thing that Gmail does is it allows you to set it up where it will give people access to your email account if you haven't logged in within a certain amount of time.
I am in my email every day, so if I don't login for 3 months, I have it set to give my beneficiaries access to my Gmail.
From there, they should be able to resolve any accounts issues that are still remaining.

I suspect some other email providers can also do this, but I only use Gmail.com
Swansea
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Swansea »

CAsage wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:47 pm Who will be dealing with your estate? I am worried (for us as well) that with everything online, and your account logins expiring with you... how on earth will anyone find things? In your case, I would consider either leaving a complete record (with account numbers) with your executor, either in a sealed envelope (like old movies, to be opened only in event of my death) or a password protected file on a USB drive. Swap it out every other year. Note that if things are beneficiary, it will be sufficient for the heir to call the institution with your SSN and their name, they will find it all. It helps to have as complete a list as possible. I don't have a death book (yet), but do file a list of all my assets with my last tax return in my office. One tries.
+1 on the password protected USB drive...
michaeljc70
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by michaeljc70 »

Patzer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:28 am My death book just has account locations and the types of accounts. I.e. JPM Brokerage.
One exception. I do list the account number of my Treasury Direct account. Not sure if it's a solid reason, but I just suspect the government will be harder to deal with and less customer friendly.

One really helpful thing that Gmail does is it allows you to set it up where it will give people access to your email account if you haven't logged in within a certain amount of time.
I am in my email every day, so if I don't login for 3 months, I have it set to give my beneficiaries access to my Gmail.
From there, they should be able to resolve any accounts issues that are still remaining.

I suspect some other email providers can also do this, but I only use Gmail.com
They are going to wait 3 months?
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enad
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by enad »

tadamsmar wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:03 am
enad wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:06 am
okie745 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:19 pm Hi,
I am planning to write a "Death" book. (no plans to die anytime time soon).

I don't have a safe deposit box or any really secure place to store it. So I am leery about putting too sensitive of data in it. (worried about identity theft in case some robs my house)

If I say "Bank X: Checking account, Savings account", "Bank Y: Visa Card", "Vanguard: Roth IRA, brokerage account", "Insurance Company Z: life insurance policy with child X and Y as beneficiaries"

Is that good enough?

Does a death book NEED to have the account numbers listed in order to be beneficial? I do all my business online, so I don't have any paper that has account numbers on it.

thanks
I would put as much information in the book so that the beneficiary would have not issues gaining access to the information i.e. account owner(s), account beneficiaries, account names, logins, passwords, website, etc ... I would include all banking, credit union, investment accounts as well as any documentation on insurance policies, deeds, titles, etc ... A copy of your last will and testament, living will, trust, etc ... Basically the "keys to the kingdom". If you do all your business online you can obtain all thin information and open up a document or notepad, etc ... and then print out that piece of paper which may bend up being several pages. You can put the stuff in an envelope and tape it to the bottom of a dresser, just let someone you know and trust where the envelope is if you don't have a safe
A beneficiary can have all that information and be unable to get their inheritance.

I think people should look into the actual process before writing a death book.

But, on the other hand, with that information a beneficiary (or anyone else) could certainly log in and configure the account so that they are the only beneficiary and then change the password so that the other beneficiaries could not configure it again. So they do have at least one of the "keys to the kingdom"
Christine Benz (MorningStar) wrote a nice article which you can read here that deals with a lot of issues that you can include in your "death" book besides investments. Personally I think having a trust is a good option and is not expensive but will keep your estate out of probate and there is a process that is followed to settle all your debts and disburse your assets to your beneficiaries. A safe is also not expensive and can easily hold your trust (or will), your death book as well as any other high dollar (precious metals) or sentimental items you may wish to have in the safe.

Taylor also put together a letter of "final instructions" which you can read about here:
viewtopic.php?t=198919
What Goes Up Must come down -- David Clayton-Thomas (1968), BST
secondcor521
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by secondcor521 »

tadamsmar wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:26 am Your executor does need to know at least how things stand with the RMDs, RMDs should be addressed before April 1 after you die.
This seems different to what I think I know.

I thought RMDs in the year of death were supposed to be handled by the end of that year of death - i.e., 12/31.

There is another rule involving April 1st, which is that for the year that you start RMDs, you are supposed to start in the year you turn 72, but you can delay that first RMD until April 1st of the year in which you turn 73.

I think you might be mixing up the second rule for the first.

There are other deadlines having to due with death and the IRS, but none that involve April 1st AFAIK.
OpenMinded1
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by OpenMinded1 »

hudson wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:42 am
tadamsmar wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:51 am
My death "book" is literally 1 side of one sheet of paper, with a copy in my safe deposit box.

I mainly list the companies (banks, custodians).
Same here. My list is 1/2 page.

Once a year on Ground Hogs Day, I...
Update my Boglehead financial plan.
Update my 1/2 page list of accounts with balances in a lock box in the house. I think that I'll add a USB drive with full account information including tax returns and RMD info. I know that's not necessary, RMD info can be somewhat useful.
Send an email to key folks with a short note and 3 pictures.

With the email and the pics they can get into the lock box in the house and into a safe deposit box with final papers.

Thanks OP for the post because, this post refreshed my memory. I saw that my account list was out of date.
Is that only if the ground hog sees his shadow??
Northern Flicker
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:59 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:51 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:44 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:21 pm
What benefit do you get from the encryption if you store the master key in the safety deposit box with the USB drives containing copies of the password safe?

The point of the encryption would be say to store the master key in the safe box, and the Keepass file outside the safe box. Then it requires physical access to both to decrypt the data, and you can make changes without needing to make a trip to the bank where the safe box is located.
You never want to have your data stored in one place. Copy3 of my data is kept offsite in my safety deposit box for security reasons. Besides the clamshell, every important piece of paper we have is kept in the safety deposit box.

This is the basic tenant of IT and the securing of your data.
No issue with an offsite backup. Encrypting it and storing the encryption key in the safe box with it is what I was referring to.
Remember, the data is being extracted from my laptop at home. Therefore, the data is unprotected until it is moved to the offsite location. That is why the data on the external devices is encrypted. I use WinRAR to create a password protected self-extracting executable. My children will not need WinRAR installed to access the data. They "double click" the executable and enter the password and it will unpack the data for them to access.

My laptop and disk drives are password protected. If it is stolen, the laptop and drives are, in essence, a brick. I do not use Bitlocker, as I have seen the TPM chip go bad. Unless you saved off the Bitlocker code for your machine, you have lost all your data.

I hope I have answered your question.

<edited> Besides *.kbdx files, I keep a number of other folders/files stored on those external devices.
Encrypting it adds value if the device were lost in transit between home and the safety deposit box. While the media is stored in the box with the encryption keys, it offers no additional protection. It does create the risk of heirs being unable to read the data as cleartext (eg if piece of paper with the key is lost or unreadable).
My postings represent my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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CRC_Volunteer
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:45 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:59 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:51 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:44 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:21 pm
What benefit do you get from the encryption if you store the master key in the safety deposit box with the USB drives containing copies of the password safe?

The point of the encryption would be say to store the master key in the safe box, and the Keepass file outside the safe box. Then it requires physical access to both to decrypt the data, and you can make changes without needing to make a trip to the bank where the safe box is located.
You never want to have your data stored in one place. Copy3 of my data is kept offsite in my safety deposit box for security reasons. Besides the clamshell, every important piece of paper we have is kept in the safety deposit box.

This is the basic tenant of IT and the securing of your data.
No issue with an offsite backup. Encrypting it and storing the encryption key in the safe box with it is what I was referring to.
Remember, the data is being extracted from my laptop at home. Therefore, the data is unprotected until it is moved to the offsite location. That is why the data on the external devices is encrypted. I use WinRAR to create a password protected self-extracting executable. My children will not need WinRAR installed to access the data. They "double click" the executable and enter the password and it will unpack the data for them to access.

My laptop and disk drives are password protected. If it is stolen, the laptop and drives are, in essence, a brick. I do not use Bitlocker, as I have seen the TPM chip go bad. Unless you saved off the Bitlocker code for your machine, you have lost all your data.

I hope I have answered your question.

<edited> Besides *.kbdx files, I keep a number of other folders/files stored on those external devices.
Encrypting it adds value if the device were lost in transit between home and the safety deposit box. While the media is stored in the box with the encryption keys, it offers no additional protection. It does create the risk of heirs being unable to read the data as cleartext (eg if piece of paper with the key is lost or unreadable).
I have covered all contingencies with redundancy. What point are you trying to make by the above statements. Should I decrypt the data because it is in the safety deposit box? No. The clam shell will be swapped on a regular basis, making the data vulnerable until it is back home and the devices wiped and prepared for the next swap.

The master password and instructions are protected and separate from the clam shell. What point in this process are you trying to poke holes in?

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Northern Flicker
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

Unless I misunderstood, you previously wrote that Keepass was where you stored things, and the master key was stored in in the safety deposit box with the media containing the Keepass file/database. My response was to that.

Encrypting backups is best practice, but the risk of not being able to decrypt the backup when the data needs to be recovered should not be underestimated.
My postings represent my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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CRC_Volunteer
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:46 pm Unless I misunderstood, you previously wrote that Keepass was where you stored things, and the master key was stored in in the safety deposit box with the media containing the Keepass file/database. My response was to that.

Encrypting backups is best practice, but the risk of not being able to decrypt the backup when the data needs to be recovered should not be underestimated.
Always test the decrypt before transporting. The risk of decrypting the data pales in comparison to the data falling into the wrong hands. Data should always be encrypted when it leaves your physical possession.
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Northern Flicker
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

The failure mode is your heirs not having the key to decrypt years in the future.

WinRAR also has had some vulnerabilities. Files encrypted with WinRAR versions that were current versions in or before 2/2019 possibly can be compromised.
My postings represent my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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CRC_Volunteer
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:32 pm The failure mode is your heirs not having the key to decrypt years in the future.

WinRAR also has had some vulnerabilities. Files encrypted with WinRAR versions that were current versions in or before 2/2019 possibly can be compromised.
Let's go back to basics. Keepass is an encrypted database, still under maintenance. WinRAR is still under maintenance. No one should be running 4 year old of any software that is being currently maintained. So what points are you trying to make? All it appears is that you are trying to be right about something.

"The failure mode is your heirs...", then explain the purpose of using Keepass at all under your scenario. Or even using a logon password to your laptop/desktop. Your spouse or children may forget it. Please explain your rationale.

The whole point was to address OP's question about his Death Book. I have presented how I handle it.
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Northern Flicker
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:16 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:32 pm The failure mode is your heirs not having the key to decrypt years in the future.

WinRAR also has had some vulnerabilities. Files encrypted with WinRAR versions that were current versions in or before 2/2019 possibly can be compromised.
Let's go back to basics. Keepass is an encrypted database, still under maintenance. WinRAR is still under maintenance. No one should be running 4 year old of any software that is being currently maintained. So what points are you trying to make? All it appears is that you are trying to be right about something.

"The failure mode is your heirs...", then explain the purpose of using Keepass at all under your scenario. Or even using a logon password to your laptop/desktop. Your spouse or children may forget it. Please explain your rationale.

The whole point was to address OP's question about his Death Book. I have presented how I handle it.
I have no need to be right in this. You have a stake in getting it right as it is your data.

If you have an archive that you created before Feb. 2019 with what was at the time the current version of WinRAR, and that archive is still stored in your safety deposit box, then it may be able to be compromised per a vulnerability subsequently identified and currently documented on the WinRAR wiki page. I had the apparently incorrect thought that this might be info you would find useful. Of course, if you store the encryption key in the safe box with the archive, then that would be irrelevant.
My postings represent my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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CRC_Volunteer
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:54 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:16 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:32 pm The failure mode is your heirs not having the key to decrypt years in the future.

WinRAR also has had some vulnerabilities. Files encrypted with WinRAR versions that were current versions in or before 2/2019 possibly can be compromised.
Let's go back to basics. Keepass is an encrypted database, still under maintenance. WinRAR is still under maintenance. No one should be running 4 year old of any software that is being currently maintained. So what points are you trying to make? All it appears is that you are trying to be right about something.

"The failure mode is your heirs...", then explain the purpose of using Keepass at all under your scenario. Or even using a logon password to your laptop/desktop. Your spouse or children may forget it. Please explain your rationale.

The whole point was to address OP's question about his Death Book. I have presented how I handle it.
I have no need to be right in this. You have a stake in getting it right as it is your data.

If you have an archive that you created before Feb. 2019 with what was at the time the current version of WinRAR, and that archive is still stored in your safety deposit box, then it may be able to be compromised per a vulnerability subsequently identified and currently documented on the WinRAR wiki page. I had the apparently incorrect thought that this might be info you would find useful. Of course, if you store the encryption key in the safe box with the archive, then that would be irrelevant.
As stated in my earlier post within this topic, this process occurs every couple of months, as this is Copy3 of my system and all relevant data. I appreciate your concern about using out-dated software, but as a retired Systems/Domain/Enterprise Administrator, this process and the possible consequences have all been thought through. Also, I create a _A and _B copy of the archive if for some reason a disk/memory check invalidates one of the archives in the future.
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Patzer
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Patzer »

michaeljc70 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:58 am
Patzer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:28 am My death book just has account locations and the types of accounts. I.e. JPM Brokerage.
One exception. I do list the account number of my Treasury Direct account. Not sure if it's a solid reason, but I just suspect the government will be harder to deal with and less customer friendly.

One really helpful thing that Gmail does is it allows you to set it up where it will give people access to your email account if you haven't logged in within a certain amount of time.
I am in my email every day, so if I don't login for 3 months, I have it set to give my beneficiaries access to my Gmail.
From there, they should be able to resolve any accounts issues that are still remaining.

I suspect some other email providers can also do this, but I only use Gmail.com
They are going to wait 3 months?
That's a fall back... not the main way for them to access things.
The main way would be they call the companies, say I am dead and get the work going to move the accounts to beneficiaries.
The fall back lets them sort out any accounts they are struggling with as if they are me, by directly accessing everything.
ktmo
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by ktmo »

One thing to also consider, is that someone may need this information prior to your death. Someone may need to step in and pay your bills while you are alive. So, it is important to include your monthly/yearly bills that will need to be paid.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:51 pm As stated in my earlier post within this topic, this process occurs every couple of months, as this is Copy3 of my system and all relevant data. I appreciate your concern about using out-dated software...
If you do a full replacement of the backup every 3 months, that would alleviate concerns about older archives. Kudos for being able to maintain this process as you age.
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secondopinion
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by secondopinion »

exodusNH wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:23 pm
okie745 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:19 pm Hi,
I am planning to write a "Death" book. (no plans to die anytime time soon).

I don't have a safe deposit box or any really secure place to store it. So I am leery about putting too sensitive of data in it. (worried about identity theft in case some robs my house)

If I say "Bank X: Checking account, Savings account", "Bank Y: Visa Card", "Vanguard: Roth IRA, brokerage account", "Insurance Company Z: life insurance policy with child X and Y as beneficiaries"

Is that good enough?

Does a death book NEED to have the account numbers listed in order to be beneficial? I do all my business online, so I don't have any paper that has account numbers on it.

thanks
Unless you're being specifically targeted, a thief is going to go for cash, jewelry, laptops, video game consoles, iPads, and firearms. They're not going to rifle through a random file cabinet hoping to steal your identity. They want to get in, out, and to the pawn shop to get cash.
Oh no, my broken laptop might be stolen! That might do me a favor. :P. I do not think a thief would really want to steal my goods; they probably want a refund.

I agree, just store it in some cabinet; as long as it is not out in plain view, that cuts the risk quite a bit. If you have a boring bookshelf, you might get away with it (how many thieves are going to break in to take a book on Complex Variables? Of course, the prices of such books might drive one to a life of crime. :P)
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whunter3333
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by whunter3333 »

Also, with two factor authentication, I've been thinking that my cell phone or email account is vital to the person who tries to clean up after my demise. WH
Makefile
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Makefile »

whunter3333 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:10 pm Also, with two factor authentication, I've been thinking that my cell phone or email account is vital to the person who tries to clean up after my demise. WH
That's fine, but you might reflect a bit on the fact that the reason it's so painful is that it is deliberately designed to stop you from doing what you are trying to do, which is give away access to someone other than you in an informal way. To them "friendly fraud" by an authorized person logging in just to peek, download statement PDFs, etc. after your death is no different than you being phished.
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tadamsmar
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by tadamsmar »

secondcor521 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:49 am
tadamsmar wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:26 am Your executor does need to know at least how things stand with the RMDs, RMDs should be addressed before April 1 after you die.
This seems different to what I think I know.

I thought RMDs in the year of death were supposed to be handled by the end of that year of death - i.e., 12/31.

There is another rule involving April 1st, which is that for the year that you start RMDs, you are supposed to start in the year you turn 72, but you can delay that first RMD until April 1st of the year in which you turn 73.

I think you might be mixing up the second rule for the first.

There are other deadlines having to due with death and the IRS, but none that involve April 1st AFAIK.
I was wrong about that, the RMD deadline is 12/31. I checked that that is what the book I referenced says.

There is a way to appeal and get a mulligan from the IRS. That would probably work in cases of death late in the year where it would be hard to arrange the distribution.
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Shallowpockets »

If I am the spouse and wife dies, and we have our death book, can I go into her accounts to see info I may need? Is it legal? Or do I have to contact the institution first with notice of death?
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by hudson »

Shallowpockets wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:44 am If I am the spouse and wife dies, and we have our death book, can I go into her accounts to see info I may need? Is it legal? Or do I have to contact the institution first with notice of death?
I have no idea about the law.

I wouldn't hesitate to login to her accounts.

If I was the beneficiary or the executor, I'd change her asset allocation to very safe investments.

If I had access, I would immediately clean out her safe deposit box.
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:58 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:51 pm As stated in my earlier post within this topic, this process occurs every couple of months, as this is Copy3 of my system and all relevant data. I appreciate your concern about using out-dated software...
If you do a full replacement of the backup every 3 months, that would alleviate concerns about older archives. Kudos for being able to maintain this process as you age.
This could apply to any activity. If I am no longer mentally able to do this simple task, I have bigger issues. Regardless, Copy3 will have everything my children will need to have - no matter how dated.

Besides, if you were using a book, I assume it would have been produced via MS Word (or some other word processor). Following your logic, you would have the same issue as you age too. If handwritten, that too will become unintelligible as one ages.

Pick your poison...

BTW, unless you store your document inside a Fire/Water rated data safe (which I also have at home), you are no better off than leaving the document laying on the coffee table.

Enough of trying to poke holes in my approach (as well as the snide comments), put your approach out there for review and comments.
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:52 am
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:58 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:51 pm As stated in my earlier post within this topic, this process occurs every couple of months, as this is Copy3 of my system and all relevant data. I appreciate your concern about using out-dated software...
If you do a full replacement of the backup every 3 months, that would alleviate concerns about older archives. Kudos for being able to maintain this process as you age.
This could apply to any activity. If I am no longer mentally able to do this simple task, I have bigger issues. Regardless, Copy3 will have everything my children will need to have - no matter how dated.

Besides, if you were using a book, I assume it would have been produced via MS Word (or some other word processor). Following your logic, you would have the same issue as you age too. If handwritten, that too will become unintelligible as one ages.

Pick your poison...

BTW, unless you store your document inside a Fire/Water rated data safe (which I also have at home), you are no better off than leaving the document laying on the coffee table.

Enough of trying to poke holes in my approach (as well as the snide comments), put your approach out there for review and comments.
There is no perfect solution-- any has advantages and disadvantages. Encryption can only protect against unwanted access if you accept the risk of locking out those you want to have access. One useful objective is to minimize the number of institutions in play and be sure heirs know what they are.

The most common scenario is that someone takes over financial POA before the death of the owner, whence the asset locations are known. An objective should be planning for this to be a smooth handoff by including the identified person in discussions about the assets, statements, and other artifacts.

Saying "if I'm incapacitated, then I've got bigger problems" is the opposite approach. If you have not planned a smooth handoff to a POA, then if incapacitated, the POA has bigger problems.

I think a process that all concerned are willing to use is important. This may not apply to your situation, but in many situations, a process designed to meet the highest standards of IT data assurance will get scrapped once the IT administrator is no longer administering the process.

What we are implementing is having POA/executor being listed for authorized access to safety deposit box. Box will contain wills, advanced directives, POA declarations, and a list of names of institutions containing assets, all unencrypted. No book of further instructions. If I were to have an offsite data backup, it would be for my own use, and an encrypted backup could be stored there, but with no dependencies for functioning as POA or settling of our estate. If additional account data were to be in the safe box, I would include a single statement for each account in hard copy with names, addresses, and account numbers redacted.
My postings represent my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Northern Flicker wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:41 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:52 am
Northern Flicker wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:58 pm
CRC_Volunteer wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:51 pm As stated in my earlier post within this topic, this process occurs every couple of months, as this is Copy3 of my system and all relevant data. I appreciate your concern about using out-dated software...
If you do a full replacement of the backup every 3 months, that would alleviate concerns about older archives. Kudos for being able to maintain this process as you age.
This could apply to any activity. If I am no longer mentally able to do this simple task, I have bigger issues. Regardless, Copy3 will have everything my children will need to have - no matter how dated.

Besides, if you were using a book, I assume it would have been produced via MS Word (or some other word processor). Following your logic, you would have the same issue as you age too. If handwritten, that too will become unintelligible as one ages.

Pick your poison...

BTW, unless you store your document inside a Fire/Water rated data safe (which I also have at home), you are no better off than leaving the document laying on the coffee table.

Enough of trying to poke holes in my approach (as well as the snide comments), put your approach out there for review and comments.
What we are implementing is having POA/executor being listed for authorized access to safety deposit box. Box will contain wills, advanced directives, POA declarations, and a list of names of institutions containing assets, all unencrypted. No book of further instructions. If I were to have an offsite data backup, it would be for my own use, and an encrypted backup could be stored there, but with no dependencies for functioning as POA or settling of our estate. If additional account data were to be in the safe box, I would include a single statement for each account in hard copy with names, addresses, and account numbers redacted.
I have done all that you have stated (please read my earlier posts) and more.

However, if you have printed your information via inkjet, then even with the advances in ink technology, those documents will be unreadable in a few short years - unless they are renewed on a regular basis - while you are still able too.

I think this topic has thoroughly been discussed...
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by Northern Flicker »

I don't use inkjet printers. If you have covered all the bases, that's great. I don't think it is a suitable process for the majority of BH's, myself included, but we do not have to agree on that point.
My postings represent my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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Re: Does death book NEED account numbers?

Post by SmileyFace »

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:29 pm
However, if you have printed your information via inkjet, then even with the advances in ink technology, those documents will be unreadable in a few short years - unless they are renewed on a regular basis - while you are still able too.
What are a few short years? My Father printed EVERYTHING for decades - I recently went through a lot of it - some items far back were noticeably faded but everything was still readable. Some of the printouts still had the continuous-paper dot-matrix tabs still connected on the sides (okay - not inkjet in that case I suppose) - brought back nostalgia. I've also got inkjet printed photos which have been hanging up exposed to light for many years with no noticeable fading. I have spent many weekends in front of a shredder.
today - I would just put everything on a USB Key.
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