Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

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Angst
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by Angst »

I think the new website problems at Vanguard.com transcend the more commonly mentioned excuses I've read in this thread, including compliance with the Federal ADA, comments like "it's a design trend that many websites are now..." and "it's mostly a matter of being patient and learning the new format". Pre-internet and up through through the launching of the earlier versions of MS IE, I worked in documentation and software training, including CBT and then in original HTML design and website development and I continue to have strong opinions about user interfaces for both hardware and software, and I think Vanguard is an embarrassment.

Here's an exercise for folks that nicely demonstrates some of Vanguard's incompetence with website design.
For those who hold I Bonds and EE Bonds, do you include them in your "Outside investments" at Vanguard? Well, why not?! It IS easy to set up...

- Go to your holdings page: https://holdings.web.vanguard.com/
and scroll down to the bottom and the last section called "Outside investments you update yourself", and at the bottom of that is a link labeled "Add an outside investment", which when clicked takes you to: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/OHAdd

- Here, if you haven't already done this, let's create a new "holding" called "Federal Govt" where we can list our Series I and EE US Govt Savings Bonds:

Under "Where held", in the "Select one" pull-down, choose: "Federal Government"
Under "Account type", I'd suggest leaving it as "Nonretirement", but suit yourself
Under "Holding Type", I'd suggest changing the "Mutual Fund" default to "Bond"
Under the "Symbol/Name" field, I suggest changing the Symbol pulldown to "Name"

US Govt savings bonds don't have "Symbols" or CUSIPs. In the field to the right of this pulldown, enter your "Name" for each of your EE and/or I bonds. Here are two examples of how I "named" purchases I made just this year. Note there are character length limitations and as such I've tried to maximize the info I'm able to get into this field:

EE-BOND - 2042 JAN
I-BOND - 2022/01 .0%

Next, the "Continue" button at the bottom should take you to where you can enter a current "Market value" and "Valuation date" for each savings bond and an "Edit" button to enter the original purchase price and a few other details about your savings bonds. You'll have to decide how to value and characterize your savings bonds - that's a different subject. (Personally, I choose to simply accrue 1/20th of the EE Bond's principal every year. I think there's a near-zero chance of my selling them past 3 yrs out. Of course, for I Bonds, I periodically visit #Cruncher's site: http://eyebonds.info/ibonds/home10000.html)

After you've done all this work, look at your report. In Vanguard pre-website update times, the Balances & Holdings page gave me a nicely formatted report for my "Federal Govt" holdings in the "Outside investments" section which was sorted by the holdings name, so EE Bonds came first, chronologically, and I Bonds followed, just the same. Awesome!

But today, thanks to the new website, "Outside investments" cannot be set to sort on Name, they simply sort by Symbol, which savings bonds don't even have! Yes, I've tried creating my own "Symbols", but you can't trick it that way. But note this, I have over 20 discreet I and EE bonds in there but there is no rhyme or reason as to how Vanguard is ordering the list! It's pure chaos. None of them have a "Symbol", so what is Vanguard using? My list is apparently random, although it does consistency display in the same, "random" order every time. It does not correlate to Name, value, purchase price, position in the editing list (which happens to order by Name!), nothing I can see. What a useless mess of a report, courtesy of Vanguard IT and its website development team.

This is just one example. There are many, and at so many different levels of importance and site design. I find it very discouraging and wonder what it might suggest about Vanguard's future.
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misterlucky
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by misterlucky »

Arrrrrghhhhh!
I know I'm really late to this party which started with posts in JANUARY, but like livesoft I haven't really had a reason to log in since I'm a buy+hold long time Boglehead. Plus I hope Ladygeek doesn't have carpal tunnel from deleting all the colorful language.

Things changed recently when I helped my 21 year old daughter open a VG account to learn the wonders of mutual fund index and ETF investing. Holy *^#@!!! What a mess this website change has become. We were just trying to look up basic info on Total Stk Mkt and got shuttled to dropdown menus starting with Blackrock so many times; later when her initial deposit finally cleared I started getting panicked texts about how to put in a simple buy order-- click the ridiculous 3 dots and maybe something good will happen. Then I wanted to tax loss harvest and it took innumerable clicks to find the cap gains info that used to be right on the holdings page.

I ended up doing a lot of apologizing for how VG has screwed up their website, and uttering the phrase "It used to be clear and easy...believe me." But alas, my 'teachable moment with daughter' has been a dreadful experience. Maybe I'll try the suggestion to switch back to the geriatric page view, but this has been a Mongolian Cluster (sorry Lady G!).
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by rkhusky »

misterlucky wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:59 pm Things changed recently when I helped my 21 year old daughter open a VG account to learn the wonders of mutual fund index and ETF investing.
Might have been wise to run through the new site first before trying to show someone else. Doing something new for the first time is always more clunky compared to the 10th or 100th time.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LadyGeek »

misterlucky wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:59 pm I ended up doing a lot of apologizing for how VG has screwed up their website, and uttering the phrase "It used to be clear and easy...believe me." But alas, my 'teachable moment with daughter' has been a dreadful experience. Maybe I'll try the suggestion to switch back to the geriatric page view, but this has been a Mongolian Cluster (sorry Lady G!).
:D

Perhaps you can teach your daughter the meaning of "brokerage"? The phrase "transfer-in-kind" comes to mind. :wink: You can own Vanguard funds at Schwab or Fidelity, for example. I own Vanguard funds at Fidelity.

After that, you can show her what you intended.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by meebers »

Just had my RMD transactions completed. I am in my 3rd day now trying to figure out what was done. Withdraws are marked as "Auth Edb Eelctronic transaction", others marked as "Miscellaneous expense to an Unidentified Security".
After some detective work comparing $ amounts, found out that the Unidentified Security? was Federal Tax withholding. :confused
Trying to find the documentation on the web site is frustrating to say the least. Going to give it a rest and try again in a week and see if the documentation has caught up.
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Riprap
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by Riprap »

For those leaving Vanguard for Fidelity but keeping Vanguard Funds, how does Fidelity make money from your business?
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LadyGeek »

I would assume it's the same as any other brokerage making money holding any other fund.
meebers wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:35 pm Just had my RMD transactions completed. I am in my 3rd day now trying to figure out what was done.
Go to the Download Center and download the account transactions. If you don't have Quicken, you'll still be able to download a .CSV file and import it into a spreadsheet. If you don't have a spreadsheet, the .csv file can be read with a text editor (but you'll have to understand the format).
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LadyGeek »

jaj2276 wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:05 pm
cb474 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:45 pm
enad wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:20 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:10 am ...
...
...

The new cost basis page is absurd. When you select cost basis you get to a page that literally shows you nothing. It just shows you the option to "expand" the account you want to see information on. Why would you go to the cost basis page if you didn't want to actually see the cost basis information? The old website just showed you all the information, already "expanded" as it were. Then when you do expand it in the new design you have to scroll hoizontally (horizontally!) to see all the columns of information. What? How is that possible? What other website works that way? And if you want to see the specific share information it takes you to another page just for that fund, so you have to go back to see everything again. Before if just expanded the specific share information on the main page. You never had to leave the main page to see anything. What a nightmare.

...
This specific page redesign should get someone fired/reassigned. This cost basis page is unusable. I'm afraid to rely on it to decide what I can/should TLH. I like many others am seriously considering moving my money to someplace else that seems to have someone competent running the show.
I just looked at the cost basis for the funds I transferred into Fidelity from Vanguard (for my Mom's account - I'm POA).

In Fidelity --> Positions tab --> (select fund) --> expands into Purchase History showing a cost basis table. "Show All" expands it to a single table. Using my mouse, I selected the table then copy-n-pasted into Excel. (It was a bit tricky to select the table, but it worked.)

Impressive. I see activity every month going back to 2005 (when the initial purchases were made). Two of the funds had non-covered shares. The only thing I could see at Vanguard was a single cost-basis number and nothing else.

The table has columns for:

Code: Select all

Acquired	Term	$ Total Gain/Loss	% Total Gain/Loss	Current Value	Quantity	Cost Basis Per Share	Cost Basis
"Term" is Short or Long.

Thank you, ACATS transfer. It does indeed include cost basis and I was never expecting this level of detail. (Wait a few days after the transfer for the cost basis to show in your account.)
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by rkhusky »

LadyGeek wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:14 am I just looked at the cost basis for the funds I transferred into Fidelity from Vanguard (for my Mom's account - I'm POA).

In Fidelity --> Positions tab --> (select fund) --> expands into Purchase History showing a cost basis table. "Show All" expands it to a single table. Using my mouse, I selected the table then copy-n-pasted into Excel. (It was a bit tricky to select the table, but it worked.)

Impressive. I see activity every month going back to 2005 (when the initial purchases were made). Two of the funds had non-covered shares. The only thing I could see at Vanguard was a single cost-basis number and nothing else.

The table has columns for:

Code: Select all

Acquired	Term	$ Total Gain/Loss	% Total Gain/Loss	Current Value	Quantity	Cost Basis Per Share	Cost Basis
"Term" is Short or Long.

Thank you, ACATS transfer. It does indeed include cost basis and I was never expecting this level of detail. (Wait a few days after the transfer for the cost basis to show in your account.)
Kudos to Vanguard’s data management team, without which this would not be possible.

Boo/hiss to Vanguard for not providing this information to its online users, since they clearly have the data.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by prd1982 »

rkhusky wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:53 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:14 am I just looked at the cost basis for the funds I transferred into Fidelity from Vanguard (for my Mom's account - I'm POA).

In Fidelity --> Positions tab --> (select fund) --> expands into Purchase History showing a cost basis table. "Show All" expands it to a single table. Using my mouse, I selected the table then copy-n-pasted into Excel. (It was a bit tricky to select the table, but it worked.)

Impressive. I see activity every month going back to 2005 (when the initial purchases were made). Two of the funds had non-covered shares. The only thing I could see at Vanguard was a single cost-basis number and nothing else.

The table has columns for:

Code: Select all

Acquired	Term	$ Total Gain/Loss	% Total Gain/Loss	Current Value	Quantity	Cost Basis Per Share	Cost Basis
"Term" is Short or Long.

Thank you, ACATS transfer. It does indeed include cost basis and I was never expecting this level of detail. (Wait a few days after the transfer for the cost basis to show in your account.)
Kudos to Vanguard’s data management team, without which this would not be possible.

Boo/hiss to Vanguard for not providing this information to its online users, since they clearly have the data.
I am really baffled by the complaints for this page. I logged onto my brokerage id, which has VG a mutual funds. I clicked on “My Accounts” at the top, and selected “Cost basis”. I then picked my non-IRA account. It lists each fund, with the summary of the cost basis (e.g., market value, short term loss/gain, long term loss/gain). I could click on the “Lot level details” text for the fund of interest, or I could click on the “Export cost basis” text to get all the funds downloaded into a single CSV. Other than showing the fund name in the first column, thus putting a lot of white space between funds, I don’t see any issues. Plus I don’t know of a solution that I would like better.

I’m looking at this on a desktop monitor.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by rkhusky »

prd1982 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:16 pm I am really baffled by the complaints for this page. I logged onto my brokerage id, which has VG a mutual funds. I clicked on “My Accounts” at the top, and selected “Cost basis”. I then picked my non-IRA account. It lists each fund, with the summary of the cost basis (e.g., market value, short term loss/gain, long term loss/gain). I could click on the “Lot level details” text for the fund of interest, or I could click on the “Export cost basis” text to get all the funds downloaded into a single CSV. Other than showing the fund name in the first column, thus putting a lot of white space between funds, I don’t see any issues. Plus I don’t know of a solution that I would like better.

I’m looking at this on a desktop monitor.
My only complaint is that they don't show the uncovered shares detail, when they clearly have it available. But frankly, I use my own spreadsheet for records of cost basis and would do so with any brokerage.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LadyGeek »

Yes, that's my point. I had no idea that level of detail existed until I saw it at Fidelity. (I think you mean non-covered shares.) I may be doing some tax loss harvesting, so I need to pay attention to cost basis.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by lostdog »

I received a dividend from VXUS today. It says it's available for withdrawal but the Vanguard interface for sending money to the bank only allows settled money in the federal money market fund to be sent.

Prior to the change I was able to send the money that was available to withdrawal before it hit the federal money market.

Is the old interface for sending money to the bank still available?

They sure have a lot of bugs to work out.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by prd1982 »

lostdog wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:08 am I received a dividend from VXUS today. It says it's available for withdrawal but the Vanguard interface for sending money to the bank only allows settled money in the federal money market fund to be sent.

Prior to the change I was able to send the money that was available to withdrawal before it hit the federal money market.

Is the old interface for sending money to the bank still available?

They sure have a lot of bugs to work out.
The new rules make sense to me. If you reinvest the dividend, VG has 3 days to settle by which time the money is in your settlement fund. However, if you send to your bank, then it might be withdrawn before the dividends hit your settlement account.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by lostdog »

prd1982 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:14 am
lostdog wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:08 am I received a dividend from VXUS today. It says it's available for withdrawal but the Vanguard interface for sending money to the bank only allows settled money in the federal money market fund to be sent.

Prior to the change I was able to send the money that was available to withdrawal before it hit the federal money market.

Is the old interface for sending money to the bank still available?

They sure have a lot of bugs to work out.
The new rules make sense to me. If you reinvest the dividend, VG has 3 days to settle by which time the money is in your settlement fund. However, if you send to your bank, then it might be withdrawn before the dividends hit your settlement account.
It says "available to withdrawal".

I was able to do this on the mobile app but not the website unless it's in a spot I cannot find.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by ruud »

lostdog wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:17 am It says "available to withdrawal".

I was able to do this on the mobile app but not the website unless it's in a spot I cannot find.
Transfer Money -> Send Me Money -> “where’s the money coming from?” enter the amount “available to withdraw” next to VMFXX -> “where’s the money going?” select your back account.

Although I didn’t complete the transaction, I was able to put the entire “amount available to withdraw” in the text box and continue to the confirmation screen, even though that amount is more than the settled balance in VMFXX.
.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by lostdog »

ruud wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:26 am
lostdog wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:17 am It says "available to withdrawal".

I was able to do this on the mobile app but not the website unless it's in a spot I cannot find.
Transfer Money -> Send Me Money -> “where’s the money coming from?” enter the amount “available to withdraw” next to VMFXX -> “where’s the money going?” select your back account.

Although I didn’t complete the transaction, I was able to put the entire “amount available to withdraw” in the text box and continue to the confirmation screen, even though that amount is more than the settled balance in VMFXX.
I didn't go that far. Thanks for checking.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

I had a rather eye-opening experience on a call to Vanguard today. The reason I called is because in my Roth IRA brokerage account, the contribution summary and contribution transaction detail page do not agree. The contribution summary has the correct amount for 2022, but when I click the transaction detail link it only shows the last month's contribution, and when I click "2021" it shows that I had no contributions even though on the parent page it shows correctly that I contributed $7000 in 2021. This is a glaring error that should have been seen by even the most cursory testing of the web site. I believe that everyone who transitioned their IRA to VBA will see this error.

So I called Vanguard and the call picked up after about 5 minutes. The person said he'd transfer me to a specialist, and after about 10 minutes the call was picked up, not by a specialist but another customer rep. But here's where the concern is: When I walked the rep through the site and he saw the error, instead of quickly acknowledging it and saying he'd forward a ticket so it could be addressed, he actually tried to walk around the error, at one time stating it was a technicality. Yes, a technicality. But it got stranger. The rep went on to say that Vanguard did not have the resources to put into IT that Fidelity, TD Ameritrade, and Schwab had, and that it could take months for a fix to get implemented, if at all. He also mentioned that their limited IT resources are mainly being used on the app. How's that for inspiring confidence in a client who's been with Vanguard for 31 years!

This is the first time I have come up against a website and customer service issue that aligns with what is generally being voiced on this forum. I never imagined this could happen at Vanguard.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by nisiprius »

It's all a matter of degree. Yesterday I spent roughly an hour trying to resolve a (trivial) issue with our new Verizon FIOS Home Phone service, and, wow, Vanguard's website is good by comparison.

One "interesting" characteristic of Verizon's "myverizon.com" website is that clicking on any link to a new page presents me the following experience:

1) A period of about five seconds with no feedback of any kind at all--not even highlighting to acknowledge that the click was noticed, sometimes leading me to click more than one... followed by...
2) A generic chasing-arrows "wait" widget... followed by...
3) A full-window chasing-arrows widget with the text "just one moment while we look up your details," with
4) About a 15 to 60 second pause while it does... whatever it is doing.

I mean an ordinary session where you are poking around looking at three or four things subjects you to three or four of these 15-to-60-second pauses.

What I was trying to do was to get my voice mail, because the dial tone "stutters," but when I follow the procedure for listening to voice mail and enter what I believe is the PIN I set up, it says "invalid entry."

On the website, most attempts to set up or change the PIN, following the obvious prompts, lead to pages where you can sign up for optional additional-cost account features.

The explicit directions in on the website for resetting the Voice Mail password say:
  • From the My Verizon Home screen, navigate: Account>My devices>Device Overview.
    To go directly to device overview, click here .
    Click Manage device below the applicable device.
But the page is simply not as described. There is no "My Devices" choice on the Account page.

At one point I foolishly clicked "Phone details" and was taken to a page that said "Do you really want to cancel your Fios Home Phone service?" Fortunately I had the presence of mind to make the appropriate choice.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:27 pm It's all a matter of degree. Yesterday I spent roughly an hour trying to resolve a (trivial) issue with our new Verizon FIOS Home Phone service, and, wow, Vanguard's website is good by comparison.

One "interesting" characteristic of Verizon's "myverizon.com" website is that clicking on any link to a new page presents me the following experience:

1) A period of about five seconds with no feedback of any kind at all--not even highlighting to acknowledge that the click was noticed, sometimes leading me to click more than one... followed by...
2) A generic chasing-arrows "wait" widget... followed by...
3) A full-window chasing-arrows widget with the text "just one moment while we look up your details," with
4) About a 15 to 60 second pause while it does... whatever it is doing.

I mean an ordinary session where you are poking around looking at three or four things subjects you to three or four of these 15-to-60-second pauses.

What I was trying to do was to get my voice mail, because the dial tone "stutters," but when I follow the procedure for listening to voice mail and enter what I believe is the PIN I set up, it says "invalid entry."

On the website, most attempts to set up or change the PIN, following the obvious prompts, lead to pages where you can sign up for optional additional-cost account features.

The explicit directions in on the website for resetting the Voice Mail password say:
  • From the My Verizon Home screen, navigate: Account>My devices>Device Overview.
    To go directly to device overview, click here .
    Click Manage device below the applicable device.
But the page is simply not as described. There is no "My Devices" choice on the Account page.

At one point I foolishly clicked "Phone details" and was taken to a page that said "Do you really want to cancel your Fios Home Phone service?" Fortunately I had the presence of mind to make the appropriate choice.
Sure, lots of web sites leave something to be desired, but we don't store a significant portion of our net worth with our ISP. 18-24 months ago Vanguard's website was very good, in fact the current web site still relies heavily on content from the legacy site. Are the changes for change's sake? Where is the added value to the client? What I was trying to highlight was how the poorly-trained customer service rep didn't quickly acknowledge the error he himself had experienced, and in addition tell me that Vanguard didn't have the resources of its competitors to fix web site errors, even the glaring ones. I find that troubling.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by cb474 »

LMK5 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:47 pm
nisiprius wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:27 pm It's all a matter of degree. Yesterday I spent roughly an hour trying to resolve a (trivial) issue with our new Verizon FIOS Home Phone service, and, wow, Vanguard's website is good by comparison.

One "interesting" characteristic of Verizon's "myverizon.com" website is that clicking on any link to a new page presents me the following experience:

1) A period of about five seconds with no feedback of any kind at all--not even highlighting to acknowledge that the click was noticed, sometimes leading me to click more than one... followed by...
2) A generic chasing-arrows "wait" widget... followed by...
3) A full-window chasing-arrows widget with the text "just one moment while we look up your details," with
4) About a 15 to 60 second pause while it does... whatever it is doing.

I mean an ordinary session where you are poking around looking at three or four things subjects you to three or four of these 15-to-60-second pauses.

What I was trying to do was to get my voice mail, because the dial tone "stutters," but when I follow the procedure for listening to voice mail and enter what I believe is the PIN I set up, it says "invalid entry."

On the website, most attempts to set up or change the PIN, following the obvious prompts, lead to pages where you can sign up for optional additional-cost account features.

The explicit directions in on the website for resetting the Voice Mail password say:
  • From the My Verizon Home screen, navigate: Account>My devices>Device Overview.
    To go directly to device overview, click here .
    Click Manage device below the applicable device.
But the page is simply not as described. There is no "My Devices" choice on the Account page.

At one point I foolishly clicked "Phone details" and was taken to a page that said "Do you really want to cancel your Fios Home Phone service?" Fortunately I had the presence of mind to make the appropriate choice.
Sure, lots of web sites leave something to be desired, but we don't store a significant portion of our net worth with our ISP. 18-24 months ago Vanguard's website was very good, in fact the current web site still relies heavily on content from the legacy site. Are the changes for change's sake? Where is the added value to the client? What I was trying to highlight was how the poorly-trained customer service rep didn't quickly acknowledge the error he himself had experienced, and in addition tell me that Vanguard didn't have the resources of its competitors to fix web site errors, even the glaring ones. I find that troubling.
Right, the relevant comparison is between Vanguard and other brokerage services, Fidelity, Schwab, etc. It is totally irrelevant to comapre the Vanguard website to some lousy phone company site that you rarely have to interact with and certainly not to do anything remotely on the order of complexity as what one does with investments. Nor is it that imporant whether Verizon's website inspires confidence or not. But you sure want to feel like the people running the company that holds your life's saving are not incompetent.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by cb474 »

whiterabbit66 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:21 amI have emailed twice to VG and been fobbed off and spent 45 mins on a call yesterday with someone who quite frankly didn't have the best English so it took ages to explain the problem. He opened a ticket and told me they are receiving non stop complaints and may give options to go back to old site. Then I asked if I could right now and he backtracked of course :)
I felt inspired by this comment to call Vanguard myself and voice my complaint. If they really are getting non-stop complaints and really are considering an option for people to go back to the old website, then perhaps my complaint will help push things over the top, I reasoned optimistically (some might say naively). Alas. The peron I spoke with said I was the first call she has had about the changes to the website. And she checked with a supervisor or someone like that and said there was no information that Vanguard was considering restoring the old interface, at least as an option.

It's so aggravating. I had to use the website today for the first time to actually do something, rather than just checking my accounts. It caused me extreme heartburn, rage, and sadness. I guess the future really is at Fidelity or Schwab.

How do people feel Fidelity and Schwab's websites compare? I see a lot of good comments about Fidelity here. But I'm kind of attracted to Schwab for the ulterior reason that I wouldn't mind having a bank account with them.
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Tubes
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by Tubes »

I went to check transactions and got presented with a survey.

I normally don't do this, but today was the day: all 1's (extremely dissatisfied) for every checkbox.

Having seen how surveys are used at my old Megacorp, I realized the only way to get attention is to go 100% negative. Neutral answers are thrown out.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by mkc »

cb474 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:51 pm

How do people feel Fidelity and Schwab's websites compare? I see a lot of good comments about Fidelity here. But I'm kind of attracted to Schwab for the ulterior reason that I wouldn't mind having a bank account with them.
I have used Fidelity's website at least as long as Vanguard's (over 20 years). I have always preferred Fidelity's. Much easier to find information, much easier to compare funds (if they are available to retail investors to trade at Fidelity, which some VG actively managed Admiral funds are not). I use their Full View (eMoney subset) aggregator and like it. Have not used their online customer service, but their subreddit folks are quite responsive and helpful.

I have looked at what Schwab has visible without an account and it's pretty good - better than VG. Not sure what being a client gets you in addition since we are not. Schwab's chat is very responsive, but they do push you to talk to a "registered investment consultant" for many things.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by rkhusky »

cb474 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:51 pm
It's so aggravating. I had to use the website today for the first time to actually do something, rather than just checking my accounts. It caused me extreme heartburn, rage, and sadness. I guess the future really is at Fidelity or Schwab.
Funny. I’ve been with Vanguard for 20+ years. The functionality of the new site isn’t much different from what the old one was.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by epilnk »

ScoobyDoo wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:56 am interesting. i love the minimalist look. Also, since hitting 40 and losing the ability to see naturally at 20/20 I appreciate large fonts and lots of whitespace.

Maybe a generational thing?????
I’m 60 and I find the redesign almost unusable.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

Vanguard definitely hosed themselves with this improvement!! 😜
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

Vanguard definitely hosed themselves with this improvement!! 😜
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

Today I performed a little experiment, opening 3 web sites in 3 different Chrome tabs: Vanguard, TD Ameritrade, and Fidelity. I then searched for VLCAX, Vanguard's own Large Cap Index Fund in each site. The difference was quite eye-opening. The pages on TD and Fidelity had the VLCAX information laid out in organized fashion, with normal font size and color variation where needed. The Vanguard site needed much more space to show similar information, with lots of unnecessary whitespace, and a huge difference in font sizes, sometimes side by side. The Vanguard site looks downright unprofessional in comparison to the other two. Crazy.

I could actually live with a bad web site design. It's the loss of functionality and broken links that disturb me. What's next, incorrect balances? Since the only way we have to deal with Vanguard is via phone or electronic means, this raises the level of concern. Fidelity and TD Ameritrade both have 3 offices in my area that, if really necessary, I could walk into and get a problem solved. That's beginning to sound important to me. It wasn't important to me for the previous 31 years.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by cb474 »

LMK5 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:22 amI could actually live with a bad web site design. It's the loss of functionality and broken links that disturb me. What's next, incorrect balances? Since the only way we have to deal with Vanguard is via phone or electronic means, this raises the level of concern. Fidelity and TD Ameritrade both have 3 offices in my area that, if really necessary, I could walk into and get a problem solved. That's beginning to sound important to me. It wasn't important to me for the previous 31 years.
Yeah, that's part of the thing for me. This update bespeaks of level of incompetence. Previous changes on the Vanguard website, in the direction of more white space, etc., I found annoying, but the website was still functional and not so substantially different from pervious iterations that it was very difficult to adpat to/relearn. But this time, I'm wondering what's going to go wrong next. And the phone customer service leaves a lot to desire. It used to be pretty good, but really started going downhill four or five years ago. I never worried before that Vangaurd basically had its act together and that my funds were safe. Now it seems like anything could go wrong. If they invest this little in IT, one wonders how good their security is (in an era of ever increasing hacks on data centers).
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by whiterabbit66 »

cb474 wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:51 pm
whiterabbit66 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:21 amI have emailed twice to VG and been fobbed off and spent 45 mins on a call yesterday with someone who quite frankly didn't have the best English so it took ages to explain the problem. He opened a ticket and told me they are receiving non stop complaints and may give options to go back to old site. Then I asked if I could right now and he backtracked of course :)
I felt inspired by this comment to call Vanguard myself and voice my complaint. If they really are getting non-stop complaints and really are considering an option for people to go back to the old website, then perhaps my complaint will help push things over the top, I reasoned optimistically (some might say naively). Alas. The peron I spoke with said I was the first call she has had about the changes to the website. And she checked with a supervisor or someone like that and said there was no information that Vanguard was considering restoring the old interface, at least as an option.

It's so aggravating. I had to use the website today for the first time to actually do something, rather than just checking my accounts. It caused me extreme heartburn, rage, and sadness. I guess the future really is at Fidelity or Schwab.

How do people feel Fidelity and Schwab's websites compare? I see a lot of good comments about Fidelity here. But I'm kind of attracted to Schwab for the ulterior reason that I wouldn't mind having a bank account with them.
That is a crazy response from their customer service. As I mentioned initially, they have told me there are non stop complaints and they are working on potentially giving an option to revert back to old format. They also put in a ticket for my specific complaint although I have heard nothing since from them.

In the meantime as I logged in this morning. I still cannot find any way to see a table with the last years dividend income even when I set filters to one year. The filters basically don't work for the tables. This is a clear bug or loss of functionality. There are also numerous other issues with things like pulling a transaction history of an individual holding now take multiple clicks and pages where as before to was easy and intuitive. What is really angering me is Vanguard need to either A: let people know either they will fix the site or B: they won't. If they won't then people can make decisions accordingly.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

cb474 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:48 am
LMK5 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:22 amI could actually live with a bad web site design. It's the loss of functionality and broken links that disturb me. What's next, incorrect balances? Since the only way we have to deal with Vanguard is via phone or electronic means, this raises the level of concern. Fidelity and TD Ameritrade both have 3 offices in my area that, if really necessary, I could walk into and get a problem solved. That's beginning to sound important to me. It wasn't important to me for the previous 31 years.
Yeah, that's part of the thing for me. This update bespeaks of level of incompetence. Previous changes on the Vanguard website, in the direction of more white space, etc., I found annoying, but the website was still functional and not so substantially different from pervious iterations that it was very difficult to adpat to/relearn. But this time, I'm wondering what's going to go wrong next. And the phone customer service leaves a lot to desire. It used to be pretty good, but really started going downhill four or five years ago. I never worried before that Vangaurd basically had its act together and that my funds were safe. Now it seems like anything could go wrong. If they invest this little in IT, one wonders how good their security is (in an era of ever increasing hacks on data centers).
Yes, I agree. In financial services, client confidence is everything. Small question marks tend to lead to larger concerns rather quickly. A few days ago I called because the transaction history for my Roth IRA was incorrect in the detailed transactions page, but correct in the contribution summary page. It was a clear discrepancy. Additionally, it showed that I made zero contributions in 2021, but actually I made $7000 in contributions. The rep didn't acknowledge the bug right away, even after he duplicated it on his end. He told me it was a "technicality." He then went on to say that Vanguard didn't have the resources to dedicate to fixing online issues the way Fidelity and Schwab did, and that most of Vanguard's attention is on the app. He actually told me that.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by cb474 »

LMK5 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:01 pm
cb474 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:48 am
LMK5 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:22 amI could actually live with a bad web site design. It's the loss of functionality and broken links that disturb me. What's next, incorrect balances? Since the only way we have to deal with Vanguard is via phone or electronic means, this raises the level of concern. Fidelity and TD Ameritrade both have 3 offices in my area that, if really necessary, I could walk into and get a problem solved. That's beginning to sound important to me. It wasn't important to me for the previous 31 years.
Yeah, that's part of the thing for me. This update bespeaks of level of incompetence. Previous changes on the Vanguard website, in the direction of more white space, etc., I found annoying, but the website was still functional and not so substantially different from pervious iterations that it was very difficult to adpat to/relearn. But this time, I'm wondering what's going to go wrong next. And the phone customer service leaves a lot to desire. It used to be pretty good, but really started going downhill four or five years ago. I never worried before that Vangaurd basically had its act together and that my funds were safe. Now it seems like anything could go wrong. If they invest this little in IT, one wonders how good their security is (in an era of ever increasing hacks on data centers).
Yes, I agree. In financial services, client confidence is everything. Small question marks tend to lead to larger concerns rather quickly. A few days ago I called because the transaction history for my Roth IRA was incorrect in the detailed transactions page, but correct in the contribution summary page. It was a clear discrepancy. Additionally, it showed that I made zero contributions in 2021, but actually I made $7000 in contributions. The rep didn't acknowledge the bug right away, even after he duplicated it on his end. He told me it was a "technicality." He then went on to say that Vanguard didn't have the resources to dedicate to fixing online issues the way Fidelity and Schwab did, and that most of Vanguard's attention is on the app. He actually told me that.
Yes, I saw your post about the IRA contribution issue and the way customer service handled it. It's definitely disturbing. Customer service people at Vanguard really don't seem like they know anything anymore and are just the same sort of random people hired for customer service at any large business, who get extremely minimal training and are never retained long enough to really understand things. It used to be so much better.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by zaplunken »

I have not been receiving email notifications for this thread for a month despite being subscribed from early on so I am posting again to see if subsequent posters' post do get me an email.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by mikeyzito22 »

Hi,
So it is $49.99 every-time I want to buy a Vanguard mutual fund in a Fidelity taxable? What if I want to DCA into a taxable account or into my Roths or IRA in vanguard mutual funds and keep specific id in taxable? $49.99 to DCA? I'm I then forced to buy etfs, of which I can harvest gains or losses? I can still do that with no fee at Vanguard.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by Misenplace »

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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by JohnFiscal »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:36 pm Go to the Download Center and download the account transactions. If you don't have Quicken, you'll still be able to download a .CSV file and import it into a spreadsheet. If you don't have a spreadsheet, the .csv file can be read with a text editor (but you'll have to understand the format).
This, the csv file download, is my only regular use of the Vanguard website. And it is pretty regular. My custom Excel VBA routines extract the data from the csv file and populate my Excel spreadsheet ledgers. The operation is quite fast and give me the information I want/need in the format that I want.

Some day soon though I will have to switch the remainder of our accounts from the mutual fund platform to the brokerage platform. This will require reworking those VBA routines. But the hours spent developing my system have paid off for me.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by whiterabbit66 »

This is my updated response receive today from Vanguard regarding the messed up personal performance page tables and filters. They must realize the lost functionality unless it is deliberate but if so why leave the filter option. Not impressed at all....

Thank you for following up with us.

I have forwarded the additional feedback you've provided to our Online
Development Team for review. Please know that we're constantly evaluating
the feedback we receive to improve our website design and services.

Please rate your satisfaction regarding the service you received today, by
copying and pasting this web address into your browser:
https://cloud.e-vanguard.com/rmc_secure-message-survey

If you have additional questions, we can be reached at:
https://support.vanguard.com/
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

whiterabbit66 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:15 pm This is my updated response receive today from Vanguard regarding the messed up personal performance page tables and filters. They must realize the lost functionality unless it is deliberate but if so why leave the filter option. Not impressed at all....

Thank you for following up with us.

I have forwarded the additional feedback you've provided to our Online
Development Team for review. Please know that we're constantly evaluating
the feedback we receive to improve our website design and services.

Please rate your satisfaction regarding the service you received today, by
copying and pasting this web address into your browser:
https://cloud.e-vanguard.com/rmc_secure-message-survey

If you have additional questions, we can be reached at:
https://support.vanguard.com/
I'm impressed that you got a response. Where did you send your feedback? I haven't gotten responses from the comments I've left using the feedback tab on my account page.

That said, today I noticed that I can no longer print my "Balances and Holdings" page, something I've been doing for many years. Anyone know of a workaround?
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by clip651 »

LMK5 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 pm
That said, today I noticed that I can no longer print my "Balances and Holdings" page, something I've been doing for many years. Anyone know of a workaround?
ctrl-alt-prtscr (printscreen) and then paste with ctrl-V into Paint. Save as a jpeg. Scroll further down the page and repeat as needed. Not elegant, but it will allow you to print whatever is on your screen.

cj
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

clip651 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:42 pm
LMK5 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 pm
That said, today I noticed that I can no longer print my "Balances and Holdings" page, something I've been doing for many years. Anyone know of a workaround?
ctrl-alt-prtscr (printscreen) and then paste with ctrl-V into Paint. Save as a jpeg. Scroll further down the page and repeat as needed. Not elegant, but it will allow you to print whatever is on your screen.

cj
Thanks. I guess that's what it's going to take.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by clip651 »

LMK5 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:22 pm
clip651 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:42 pm
LMK5 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 pm
That said, today I noticed that I can no longer print my "Balances and Holdings" page, something I've been doing for many years. Anyone know of a workaround?
ctrl-alt-prtscr (printscreen) and then paste with ctrl-V into Paint. Save as a jpeg. Scroll further down the page and repeat as needed. Not elegant, but it will allow you to print whatever is on your screen.

cj
Thanks. I guess that's what it's going to take.
There certainly may be a more elegant workaround, or they might fix it soon. That is just my fallback for any webpage I am having difficulty printing.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LadyGeek »

You can print the page directly from your web browser. All browsers support that.

In Chrome: Print from Chrome and select the page(s) you want to print. It's not the best, but you'll have the info.

You can also save the page to PDF. Select "Save to PDF" as the destination.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

LadyGeek wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:20 am You can print the page directly from your web browser. All browsers support that.

In Chrome: Print from Chrome and select the page(s) you want to print. It's not the best, but you'll have the info.

You can also save the page to PDF. Select "Save to PDF" as the destination.
Yes I first tried to print in Chrome but the page formatting was quite bad. It didn’t look very usable.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by whiterabbit66 »

LMK5 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 pm
whiterabbit66 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:15 pm This is my updated response receive today from Vanguard regarding the messed up personal performance page tables and filters. They must realize the lost functionality unless it is deliberate but if so why leave the filter option. Not impressed at all....

Thank you for following up with us.

I have forwarded the additional feedback you've provided to our Online
Development Team for review. Please know that we're constantly evaluating
the feedback we receive to improve our website design and services.

Please rate your satisfaction regarding the service you received today, by
copying and pasting this web address into your browser:
https://cloud.e-vanguard.com/rmc_secure-message-survey

If you have additional questions, we can be reached at:
https://support.vanguard.com/
I'm impressed that you got a response. Where did you send your feedback? I haven't gotten responses from the comments I've left using the feedback tab on my account page.

That said, today I noticed that I can no longer print my "Balances and Holdings" page, something I've been doing for many years. Anyone know of a workaround?
So another update, can't believe it but they have fixed the issue I was complaining about. At this moment at least we can once again pull up a table showing returns for a year under performance tabs !

I emailed then directly complaining and both times did get a response but it took a few days.
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Re: Vanguard website succumbs to "Fisher-Price" UI design

Post by LMK5 »

whiterabbit66 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:44 am
LMK5 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 pm
whiterabbit66 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:15 pm This is my updated response receive today from Vanguard regarding the messed up personal performance page tables and filters. They must realize the lost functionality unless it is deliberate but if so why leave the filter option. Not impressed at all....

Thank you for following up with us.

I have forwarded the additional feedback you've provided to our Online
Development Team for review. Please know that we're constantly evaluating
the feedback we receive to improve our website design and services.

Please rate your satisfaction regarding the service you received today, by
copying and pasting this web address into your browser:
https://cloud.e-vanguard.com/rmc_secure-message-survey

If you have additional questions, we can be reached at:
https://support.vanguard.com/
I'm impressed that you got a response. Where did you send your feedback? I haven't gotten responses from the comments I've left using the feedback tab on my account page.

That said, today I noticed that I can no longer print my "Balances and Holdings" page, something I've been doing for many years. Anyone know of a workaround?
So another update, can't believe it but they have fixed the issue I was complaining about. At this moment at least we can once again pull up a table showing returns for a year under performance tabs !

I emailed then directly complaining and both times did get a response but it took a few days.
But how did you email them? Did you use the secure messaging within the Vanguard website?
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