DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

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rockstar
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DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by rockstar »

The future looks ridiculously fast considering DOSCIS 4 and WIFI 7 are coming. I get 250 down today, and I barely use a quarter to a half of that bandwidth at any given point. My streaming 4k is barely more than 25, and that's only when I'm streaming Apple stuff through my ROKU. I can't even imagine getting 10 gigabit down. However, I like the idea of 3 gigabit up for cloud backup. I can't use cloud back up now with my limitation of 10 down and 1.2TB data.

As for qualify of service, my current hardware is good to packet filter 500 down. It's not good enough to do 1 gigabit down, but since I'm not using anywhere near the 250 I get down right now, I don't see the point to get more.

I'm at the point now of starting to upgrade my network gear, but I can't realistically afford to future proof for a 10 gigabit down world. I'm looking at 2.5 gigabit switches. I'm looking at using a Protectli as a gateway (to replace a APU2 one), so that I can packet filter close to 1 gigabit. And I'm moving from WIFI 5 to 6, which isn't a huge leap. But now that most of my devices are WIFI 6 capable, I think, this makes sense.

Am I thinking about this correctly? I feel like once I get everything close to 2.5 gigabit that we'll be moving on 10 gigabit. But I can't see how I can reasonably packet filter anything at that speed with consumer gear. I think, I'd need enterprise gear, and that's out of my price range right now. And I struggle to wrap my head around that use as I barely use 50-100 down right now. But I'm definitely interested in 3 gigabit up for cloud storage as all of my backups are currently on a Synology NAS other than my iPhone pictures and videos that are saved to iCloud.

How would you approach this upgrade problem?
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by whodidntante »

Reckon why you need to packet filter?
tortoise84
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by tortoise84 »

I would not try to future proof with computers and electronics. You will pay a massive price premium for the latest and greatest gear. And even after the new stuff comes out, the older stuff is often still sold but the prices go down a lot. So it's better to just buy what you need now, i.e. a router that can handle 250-500 Mbps, and upgrade when your needs increase. By that time, a DOCSIS 4.0 modem or WiFi 7 router should be widely available at mid-level or even budget level price points, so even if you have to replace gear more frequently, you'll still save money.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by sc9182 »

Also, try to buy Am..n warehouse deal - you usually get 20% or so discount on nearly/fully brand-new gear. Also, use your credit card which extends manufacturer’s warranty for additional 1 year.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by rockstar »

tortoise84 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:21 pm I would not try to future proof with computers and electronics. You will pay a massive price premium for the latest and greatest gear. And even after the new stuff comes out, the older stuff is often still sold but the prices go down a lot. So it's better to just buy what you need now, i.e. a router that can handle 250-500 Mbps, and upgrade when your needs increase. By that time, a DOCSIS 4.0 modem or WiFi 7 router should be widely available at mid-level or even budget level price points, so even if you have to replace gear more frequently, you'll still save money.
This is what I have been doing. I end up turning over my gear every 5-7 years. I'm asking now because I'm starting to see discounts pop up.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by 123 »

rockstar wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:38 pm ...How would you approach this upgrade problem?
I would probably lag the hardware infrastructure used by my ISP by a generation. It often takes a considerable effort by an ISP to raise their capacity and speed. It advantages an end-user little to have a technical environment that exceeds that of the ISP service they are connected to.

It's like rushing out to get an 8K TV when there is little 8K content produced to be available to the consumer.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

Here is my experience hope it helps:

I used Protectcli hardware with PFSENSE firewall and I loved it. Currently I have a Qotom fanless PC (about the same size) with Intel core I5 and I also like it very much, it seems to have a better serial line than Protectcli. Either way it's a great hardware to run a firewall.
As mentioned I run Pfsense community edition firewall, with a few extra packages. In our previous house we would be getting wire speed at 940 mbps without breaking a sweat.
I simply do not trust consumer firewalls, and plus I like to add some customizations, for instance traffic monitoring on a per host basis. Good enough reasons to stay with custom builds.

Currently we are unfortunately stuck with Comcast DOCSIS3 at 600 down / 20 up. To be honest I think 600 mbps for us is plenty, what really kills performance is upload speed of 20 mbps and the higher latency. Bad for a cloud drive, so I really hope Comcast will go to DOCSIS4.

In any case my only comment to you is do you really need more than 1 Gbps or will it be enough? Only you of course know the answer to this. Currently I will be happy with 1 Gbps if and when I get it and have to no plan to go to 2.5 Gbps, but if I do I would need to upgrade the firewall hardware, the switch and the access points.

Also FWIW, for the Wi-Fi network I use 4 Unifi Ubiquiti PoE access points, with a Netgear PoE semi-managed switch :-) I've always been happy with Unifi / Ubiquiti products.

Edit: when you mention APU2, is that Pc Engines APU ? I also used this little box long time ago and I really liked it.

Edit2: I'm on WiFi 6 as far as WiFi access points are concerned.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by andypanda »

I can't help because I didn't understand a word of any of that, but it was entertaining and it's okay, I'm old and retired and fondly remember when the state agency I used to work for wouldn't buy us a tiny hard drive for a Leading Edge Model D I picked up for a song. Trying to run Word on two 5.25 floppies was a chore. They did finally spring for a LaserJet.

I am firmly convinced that the internet providers current speed race is mostly an advertising ploy directed at people like me. Oooh, big numbers are better.

A year ago we bought 4k OLED tv and Comcast/Xfinity sent us a gigabit gateway to enable 4k. The XB7 is rated for up to 2.5 Gbit/s. It works, but I don't think we need the 690 down we're getting simply to run 1 or 2 tvs and my wife's iPad and 2 iPhones. And that 690 is on my cheap 17" HP Envy laptop on wifi fwiw.

Now if Comcast would stop the trees from falling on the lines out here in the sticks 12 miles outside of town we'd have something really useful. :)
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by tortoise84 »

rockstar wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:51 pm This is what I have been doing. I end up turning over my gear every 5-7 years. I'm asking now because I'm starting to see discounts pop up.
When DOCSIS 4.0 is available in your area and you decide to sign up for it, that's when you should start thinking about upgrading your network gear. If you upgrade now, then the extra bandwidth capacity will just go to waste.

Only if you transfer large files around on your internal home network (e.g. your NAS), then you might want to upgrade now. In this case, you should consider wired Ethernet because it is much faster, cheaper and more reliable than WiFi. 2.5Gbps Ethernet gear is pretty cheap these days. Your internal intranet traffic should not go through your firewall so the speed of your firewall should not matter, and you don't have to upgrade it until you upgrade your internet speed.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by rockstar »

squirrel1963 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:54 pm Here is my experience hope it helps:

I used Protectcli hardware with PFSENSE firewall and I loved it. Currently I have a Qotom fanless PC (about the same size) with Intel core I5 and I also like it very much, it seems to have a better serial line than Protectcli. Either way it's a great hardware to run a firewall.
As mentioned I run Pfsense community edition firewall, with a few extra packages. In our previous house we would be getting wire speed at 940 mbps without breaking a sweat.
I simply do not trust consumer firewalls, and plus I like to add some customizations, for instance traffic monitoring on a per host basis. Good enough reasons to stay with custom builds.

Currently we are unfortunately stuck with Comcast DOCSIS3 at 600 down / 20 up. To be honest I think 600 mbps for us is plenty, what really kills performance is upload speed of 20 mbps and the higher latency. Bad for a cloud drive, so I really hope Comcast will go to DOCSIS4.

In any case my only comment to you is do you really need more than 1 Gbps or will it be enough? Only you of course know the answer to this. Currently I will be happy with 1 Gbps if and when I get it and have to no plan to go to 2.5 Gbps, but if I do I would need to upgrade the firewall hardware, the switch and the access points.

Also FWIW, for the Wi-Fi network I use 4 Unifi Ubiquiti PoE access points, with a Netgear PoE semi-managed switch :-) I've always been happy with Unifi / Ubiquiti products.

Edit: when you mention APU2, is that Pc Engines APU ? I also used this little box long time ago and I really liked it.

Edit2: I'm on WiFi 6 as far as WiFi access points are concerned.
Yes. My firewall runs on the APU2 by PcEngines. I'm looking at Protectli now because of supply issues that PcEngines is having, and I'd like faster CPUs. But I need to figure out power management too. I buy these devices to save energy. I like packet filtering with it, and I use it to mitigate bufferbloat. I get my latency to under 10ms both up and down. I'm on a DOCSIS 3.1 modem now.

My biggest problem is that my up is only 10. My down is plenty fast.

I'm upgrading my AP to WIFI 6 this week, and then I'll start shopping for a 2.5g switch with link aggregation. My NAS supports it, so I think, it's worth it on a new switch. My current switch already supports it. I run a managed HP Procurve switch.

I haven't looked at Ubiquiti products.

My big purchases by the end of the year is now Thinkpads. We both use Thinkpads at home for personal use, and they have been rock solid. My current one is 7 years old. I'm due for an upgrade, and laptop prices seem to have finally have fallen. The changes in crypto have also made Nvidia products a lot cheaper, so I'll probably get a laptop with one even though they're not open source friendly. But I only go so far as running both linux and openbsd in VM Ware player.
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hand
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by hand »

rockstar wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:38 pm And I'm moving from WIFI 5 to 6, which isn't a huge leap. But now that most of my devices are WIFI 6 capable, I think, this makes sense.

How would you approach this upgrade problem?
I dipped my toe into the Wifi6 waters with a Wifi 6 access point and iPhone13 - in practice I'm finding that my iphone 13 mostly connects via Wifi5 ... and that I have no real functional need for speed or features of Wifi6.

Personally I won't investing in anything more Wifi6 (or beyond) until I identify a functional need or older hardware wears out.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by rockstar »

andypanda wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:27 am I can't help because I didn't understand a word of any of that, but it was entertaining and it's okay, I'm old and retired and fondly remember when the state agency I used to work for wouldn't buy us a tiny hard drive for a Leading Edge Model D I picked up for a song. Trying to run Word on two 5.25 floppies was a chore. They did finally spring for a LaserJet.

I am firmly convinced that the internet providers current speed race is mostly an advertising ploy directed at people like me. Oooh, big numbers are better.

A year ago we bought 4k OLED tv and Comcast/Xfinity sent us a gigabit gateway to enable 4k. The XB7 is rated for up to 2.5 Gbit/s. It works, but I don't think we need the 690 down we're getting simply to run 1 or 2 tvs and my wife's iPad and 2 iPhones. And that 690 is on my cheap 17" HP Envy laptop on wifi fwiw.

Now if Comcast would stop the trees from falling on the lines out here in the sticks 12 miles outside of town we'd have something really useful. :)
The reality is that streaming 4K shows uses roughly 25 down. So for two TVs streaming two 4K programs, you're only using 50. Streaming HD content uses significantly less. That's most of my bandwidth usage. I have a 250 plan because Cox got rid of their 150 plan and replaced it with the 250 one. It's over kill for my daily usage. My problem is the up. My plan is only 10. That's insufficient for my needs for cloud backup. I'd love 100+ up. I also can't stream in 4K because I have insufficient up. DOCSIS 3.1 is more than capable of having a much higher up, but providers aren't making them available.

The other time I use bandwidth is updating programs and downloading games. The game manufacturers are moving in the digital direction. I did an free upgrade of one of my PS4 to a PS5 game, and the download was nearly 200 gig. This used a lot of speed. But these are one off events. They're not occurring on a daily basis.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by andypanda »

I hear you.

I just checked again to get our up speed. The laptop on wifi got speedtest scores of 653 down and 29.9 up.
That's with "Latency: 15 ms Server: Washington" from Richmond VA. I assume they mean D.C.

I'd stretch a wire across the room and retest, but I'm lazy.

The Comcast speed test shows 585 and 39.5 with a Richmond host.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:12 am
squirrel1963 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:54 pm Here is my experience hope it helps:

I used Protectcli hardware with PFSENSE firewall and I loved it. Currently I have a Qotom fanless PC (about the same size) with Intel core I5 and I also like it very much, it seems to have a better serial line than Protectcli. Either way it's a great hardware to run a firewall.
As mentioned I run Pfsense community edition firewall, with a few extra packages. In our previous house we would be getting wire speed at 940 mbps without breaking a sweat.
I simply do not trust consumer firewalls, and plus I like to add some customizations, for instance traffic monitoring on a per host basis. Good enough reasons to stay with custom builds.

Currently we are unfortunately stuck with Comcast DOCSIS3 at 600 down / 20 up. To be honest I think 600 mbps for us is plenty, what really kills performance is upload speed of 20 mbps and the higher latency. Bad for a cloud drive, so I really hope Comcast will go to DOCSIS4.

In any case my only comment to you is do you really need more than 1 Gbps or will it be enough? Only you of course know the answer to this. Currently I will be happy with 1 Gbps if and when I get it and have to no plan to go to 2.5 Gbps, but if I do I would need to upgrade the firewall hardware, the switch and the access points.

Also FWIW, for the Wi-Fi network I use 4 Unifi Ubiquiti PoE access points, with a Netgear PoE semi-managed switch :-) I've always been happy with Unifi / Ubiquiti products.

Edit: when you mention APU2, is that Pc Engines APU ? I also used this little box long time ago and I really liked it.

Edit2: I'm on WiFi 6 as far as WiFi access points are concerned.
Yes. My firewall runs on the APU2 by PcEngines. I'm looking at Protectli now because of supply issues that PcEngines is having, and I'd like faster CPUs. But I need to figure out power management too. I buy these devices to save energy. I like packet filtering with it, and I use it to mitigate bufferbloat. I get my latency to under 10ms both up and down. I'm on a DOCSIS 3.1 modem now.

My biggest problem is that my up is only 10. My down is plenty fast.

I'm upgrading my AP to WIFI 6 this week, and then I'll start shopping for a 2.5g switch with link aggregation. My NAS supports it, so I think, it's worth it on a new switch. My current switch already supports it. I run a managed HP Procurve switch.

I haven't looked at Ubiquiti products.

My big purchases by the end of the year is now Thinkpads. We both use Thinkpads at home for personal use, and they have been rock solid. My current one is 7 years old. I'm due for an upgrade, and laptop prices seem to have finally have fallen. The changes in crypto have also made Nvidia products a lot cheaper, so I'll probably get a laptop with one even though they're not open source friendly. But I only go so far as running both linux and openbsd in VM Ware player.
You will definitely love Protectcli hardware (customer service is also great), it's much faster than PC Engines and will definitely be able to do wire speed packet processing at 1 Gbps. Looking at the CPU consumption I see it rarely goes above 5%, so presumably it would also be able to do deep packet inspection without any trouble.

it makes sense obviously to go to 2.5 Gbps if you have to upgrade anyway, hoping DOCSIS4 will be out in a few years.

One minor annoyance about Ubiquiti wifi access points is that they require a small Linux box to run the management software, and I use another really old PcEngines box. A Raspberry PI would work just as well. Of course the big advantage is that management is centralized and as such very easy to do.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by seawolf21 »

rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:37 am
andypanda wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:27 am I can't help because I didn't understand a word of any of that, but it was entertaining and it's okay, I'm old and retired and fondly remember when the state agency I used to work for wouldn't buy us a tiny hard drive for a Leading Edge Model D I picked up for a song. Trying to run Word on two 5.25 floppies was a chore. They did finally spring for a LaserJet.

I am firmly convinced that the internet providers current speed race is mostly an advertising ploy directed at people like me. Oooh, big numbers are better.

A year ago we bought 4k OLED tv and Comcast/Xfinity sent us a gigabit gateway to enable 4k. The XB7 is rated for up to 2.5 Gbit/s. It works, but I don't think we need the 690 down we're getting simply to run 1 or 2 tvs and my wife's iPad and 2 iPhones. And that 690 is on my cheap 17" HP Envy laptop on wifi fwiw.

Now if Comcast would stop the trees from falling on the lines out here in the sticks 12 miles outside of town we'd have something really useful. :)
The reality is that streaming 4K shows uses roughly 25 down. So for two TVs streaming two 4K programs, you're only using 50. Streaming HD content uses significantly less. That's most of my bandwidth usage. I have a 250 plan because Cox got rid of their 150 plan and replaced it with the 250 one. It's over kill for my daily usage. My problem is the up. My plan is only 10. That's insufficient for my needs for cloud backup. I'd love 100+ up. I also can't stream in 4K because I have insufficient up. DOCSIS 3.1 is more than capable of having a much higher up, but providers aren't making them available.

The other time I use bandwidth is updating programs and downloading games. The game manufacturers are moving in the digital direction. I did an free upgrade of one of my PS4 to a PS5 game, and the download was nearly 200 gig. This used a lot of speed. But these are one off events. They're not occurring on a daily basis.
You mentioned DOCSIS 4. Is your ISP even going to support cable when upping their offering to symmetrical speeds? Take Optimum for instance. They are rolling out fiber for their symmetrical down/up 1GB offering.

In regards to cloud backup, there is the flexibility of letting it upload 24/7 to overcome low upload speed.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by rockstar »

seawolf21 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:58 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:37 am
andypanda wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:27 am I can't help because I didn't understand a word of any of that, but it was entertaining and it's okay, I'm old and retired and fondly remember when the state agency I used to work for wouldn't buy us a tiny hard drive for a Leading Edge Model D I picked up for a song. Trying to run Word on two 5.25 floppies was a chore. They did finally spring for a LaserJet.

I am firmly convinced that the internet providers current speed race is mostly an advertising ploy directed at people like me. Oooh, big numbers are better.

A year ago we bought 4k OLED tv and Comcast/Xfinity sent us a gigabit gateway to enable 4k. The XB7 is rated for up to 2.5 Gbit/s. It works, but I don't think we need the 690 down we're getting simply to run 1 or 2 tvs and my wife's iPad and 2 iPhones. And that 690 is on my cheap 17" HP Envy laptop on wifi fwiw.

Now if Comcast would stop the trees from falling on the lines out here in the sticks 12 miles outside of town we'd have something really useful. :)
The reality is that streaming 4K shows uses roughly 25 down. So for two TVs streaming two 4K programs, you're only using 50. Streaming HD content uses significantly less. That's most of my bandwidth usage. I have a 250 plan because Cox got rid of their 150 plan and replaced it with the 250 one. It's over kill for my daily usage. My problem is the up. My plan is only 10. That's insufficient for my needs for cloud backup. I'd love 100+ up. I also can't stream in 4K because I have insufficient up. DOCSIS 3.1 is more than capable of having a much higher up, but providers aren't making them available.

The other time I use bandwidth is updating programs and downloading games. The game manufacturers are moving in the digital direction. I did an free upgrade of one of my PS4 to a PS5 game, and the download was nearly 200 gig. This used a lot of speed. But these are one off events. They're not occurring on a daily basis.
You mentioned DOCSIS 4. Is your ISP even going to support cable when upping their offering to symmetrical speeds? Take Optimum for instance. They are rolling out fiber for their symmetrical down/up 1GB offering.

In regards to cloud backup, there is the flexibility of letting it upload 24/7 to overcome low upload speed.
I have a little over a 1TB limit on data. And the time to upload on a 10 up line isn't worth the headache.

Here's what I'm hearing about DOCSIS 4:

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/operators ... their-labs

The other possibility is what cellphone companies will provide. 5G is good competition against cable providers right now if you're close to antennas. I'm not super close, so it's not viable for me yet as a substitution. But this should put downward pressure on the prices. The next iteration should be a viable competitor, so the cable companies have to do something.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by audioengr »

rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 pm
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:58 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:37 am
andypanda wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:27 am I can't help because I didn't understand a word of any of that, but it was entertaining and it's okay, I'm old and retired and fondly remember when the state agency I used to work for wouldn't buy us a tiny hard drive for a Leading Edge Model D I picked up for a song. Trying to run Word on two 5.25 floppies was a chore. They did finally spring for a LaserJet.

I am firmly convinced that the internet providers current speed race is mostly an advertising ploy directed at people like me. Oooh, big numbers are better.

A year ago we bought 4k OLED tv and Comcast/Xfinity sent us a gigabit gateway to enable 4k. The XB7 is rated for up to 2.5 Gbit/s. It works, but I don't think we need the 690 down we're getting simply to run 1 or 2 tvs and my wife's iPad and 2 iPhones. And that 690 is on my cheap 17" HP Envy laptop on wifi fwiw.

Now if Comcast would stop the trees from falling on the lines out here in the sticks 12 miles outside of town we'd have something really useful. :)
The reality is that streaming 4K shows uses roughly 25 down. So for two TVs streaming two 4K programs, you're only using 50. Streaming HD content uses significantly less. That's most of my bandwidth usage. I have a 250 plan because Cox got rid of their 150 plan and replaced it with the 250 one. It's over kill for my daily usage. My problem is the up. My plan is only 10. That's insufficient for my needs for cloud backup. I'd love 100+ up. I also can't stream in 4K because I have insufficient up. DOCSIS 3.1 is more than capable of having a much higher up, but providers aren't making them available.

The other time I use bandwidth is updating programs and downloading games. The game manufacturers are moving in the digital direction. I did an free upgrade of one of my PS4 to a PS5 game, and the download was nearly 200 gig. This used a lot of speed. But these are one off events. They're not occurring on a daily basis.
You mentioned DOCSIS 4. Is your ISP even going to support cable when upping their offering to symmetrical speeds? Take Optimum for instance. They are rolling out fiber for their symmetrical down/up 1GB offering.

In regards to cloud backup, there is the flexibility of letting it upload 24/7 to overcome low upload speed.
I have a little over a 1TB limit on data. And the time to upload on a 10 up line isn't worth the headache.

Here's what I'm hearing about DOCSIS 4:

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/operators ... their-labs

The other possibility is what cellphone companies will provide. 5G is good competition against cable providers right now if you're close to antennas. I'm not super close, so it's not viable for me yet as a substitution. But this should put downward pressure on the prices. The next iteration should be a viable competitor, so the cable companies have to do something.
I think you're far more likely to see a continuation of the evolution of DOCSIS 3.1.
https://www.fiercetelecom.com/telecom/c ... eir-sleeve

DOCSIS 4.0 is at least 2 years away, and likely longer than that.
https://dgtlinfra.com/docsis-4-0-next-generation-cable

Our local utility is rolling out fiber to the home. They're going head to head with ATT who already deployed fiber to the home.
Both the Utility and ATT have begun offering speeds in excess of 1Gb symmetrical.
https://www.kub.org/fiber-shopping/residential


For the cutting edge of home internet, move to Chattanooga TN. First 1Gb home internet offering, now fastest speed available.
https://epb.com/newsroom/epb-news/epb-l ... b-service/
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

audioengr wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:41 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 pm
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:58 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:37 am
andypanda wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:27 am I can't help because I didn't understand a word of any of that, but it was entertaining and it's okay, I'm old and retired and fondly remember when the state agency I used to work for wouldn't buy us a tiny hard drive for a Leading Edge Model D I picked up for a song. Trying to run Word on two 5.25 floppies was a chore. They did finally spring for a LaserJet.

I am firmly convinced that the internet providers current speed race is mostly an advertising ploy directed at people like me. Oooh, big numbers are better.

A year ago we bought 4k OLED tv and Comcast/Xfinity sent us a gigabit gateway to enable 4k. The XB7 is rated for up to 2.5 Gbit/s. It works, but I don't think we need the 690 down we're getting simply to run 1 or 2 tvs and my wife's iPad and 2 iPhones. And that 690 is on my cheap 17" HP Envy laptop on wifi fwiw.

Now if Comcast would stop the trees from falling on the lines out here in the sticks 12 miles outside of town we'd have something really useful. :)
The reality is that streaming 4K shows uses roughly 25 down. So for two TVs streaming two 4K programs, you're only using 50. Streaming HD content uses significantly less. That's most of my bandwidth usage. I have a 250 plan because Cox got rid of their 150 plan and replaced it with the 250 one. It's over kill for my daily usage. My problem is the up. My plan is only 10. That's insufficient for my needs for cloud backup. I'd love 100+ up. I also can't stream in 4K because I have insufficient up. DOCSIS 3.1 is more than capable of having a much higher up, but providers aren't making them available.

The other time I use bandwidth is updating programs and downloading games. The game manufacturers are moving in the digital direction. I did an free upgrade of one of my PS4 to a PS5 game, and the download was nearly 200 gig. This used a lot of speed. But these are one off events. They're not occurring on a daily basis.
You mentioned DOCSIS 4. Is your ISP even going to support cable when upping their offering to symmetrical speeds? Take Optimum for instance. They are rolling out fiber for their symmetrical down/up 1GB offering.

In regards to cloud backup, there is the flexibility of letting it upload 24/7 to overcome low upload speed.
I have a little over a 1TB limit on data. And the time to upload on a 10 up line isn't worth the headache.

Here's what I'm hearing about DOCSIS 4:

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/operators ... their-labs

The other possibility is what cellphone companies will provide. 5G is good competition against cable providers right now if you're close to antennas. I'm not super close, so it's not viable for me yet as a substitution. But this should put downward pressure on the prices. The next iteration should be a viable competitor, so the cable companies have to do something.
I think you're far more likely to see a continuation of the evolution of DOCSIS 3.1.
https://www.fiercetelecom.com/telecom/c ... eir-sleeve

DOCSIS 4.0 is at least 2 years away, and likely longer than that.
https://dgtlinfra.com/docsis-4-0-next-generation-cable

Our local utility is rolling out fiber to the home. They're going head to head with ATT who already deployed fiber to the home.
Both the Utility and ATT have begun offering speeds in excess of 1Gb symmetrical.
https://www.kub.org/fiber-shopping/residential


For the cutting edge of home internet, move to Chattanooga TN. First 1Gb home internet offering, now fastest speed available.
https://epb.com/newsroom/epb-news/epb-l ... b-service/
We last lived in Mountain View CA, where we had 1 Gbps fiber and it was great, we got about 940 mbps both ways with a latency of about 7 ms.
Right now unfortunately we have Comcast cable at 600/20 which is terrible in regard to upload speed and latency. There is another provider which supposedly offers some kind of FTTN, with fiber going to the cental office, and coax cable to home. They are supposed to provide 1 Gbps but my neighbors are not happy with them, so I'm resiting for now.

Although at some point I'm planning to upload a lot of data my cloud drive and I might want 1 Gbps despite poor customer service. Either that or we'll at least upgrade to 1200/40 for the slightly less sucky upload speed.

EDIT: thanks for the link on docsis 3.1 modems, it'd be nice to get better upload speeds on 3.1 before 4.0 arrives.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by enad »

squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:06 pm
audioengr wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:41 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 pm
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:58 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:37 am

The reality is that streaming 4K shows uses roughly 25 down. So for two TVs streaming two 4K programs, you're only using 50. Streaming HD content uses significantly less. That's most of my bandwidth usage. I have a 250 plan because Cox got rid of their 150 plan and replaced it with the 250 one. It's over kill for my daily usage. My problem is the up. My plan is only 10. That's insufficient for my needs for cloud backup. I'd love 100+ up. I also can't stream in 4K because I have insufficient up. DOCSIS 3.1 is more than capable of having a much higher up, but providers aren't making them available.

The other time I use bandwidth is updating programs and downloading games. The game manufacturers are moving in the digital direction. I did an free upgrade of one of my PS4 to a PS5 game, and the download was nearly 200 gig. This used a lot of speed. But these are one off events. They're not occurring on a daily basis.
You mentioned DOCSIS 4. Is your ISP even going to support cable when upping their offering to symmetrical speeds? Take Optimum for instance. They are rolling out fiber for their symmetrical down/up 1GB offering.

In regards to cloud backup, there is the flexibility of letting it upload 24/7 to overcome low upload speed.
I have a little over a 1TB limit on data. And the time to upload on a 10 up line isn't worth the headache.

Here's what I'm hearing about DOCSIS 4:

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/operators ... their-labs

The other possibility is what cellphone companies will provide. 5G is good competition against cable providers right now if you're close to antennas. I'm not super close, so it's not viable for me yet as a substitution. But this should put downward pressure on the prices. The next iteration should be a viable competitor, so the cable companies have to do something.
I think you're far more likely to see a continuation of the evolution of DOCSIS 3.1.
https://www.fiercetelecom.com/telecom/c ... eir-sleeve

DOCSIS 4.0 is at least 2 years away, and likely longer than that.
https://dgtlinfra.com/docsis-4-0-next-generation-cable

Our local utility is rolling out fiber to the home. They're going head to head with ATT who already deployed fiber to the home.
Both the Utility and ATT have begun offering speeds in excess of 1Gb symmetrical.
https://www.kub.org/fiber-shopping/residential


For the cutting edge of home internet, move to Chattanooga TN. First 1Gb home internet offering, now fastest speed available.
https://epb.com/newsroom/epb-news/epb-l ... b-service/
We last lived in Mountain View CA, where we had 1 Gbps fiber and it was great, we got about 940 mbps both ways with a latency of about 7 ms.
Right now unfortunately we have Comcast cable at 600/20 which is terrible in regard to upload speed and latency. There is another provider which supposedly offers some kind of FTTN, with fiber going to the cental office, and coax cable to home. They are supposed to provide 1 Gbps but my neighbors are not happy with them, so I'm resiting for now.

Although at some point I'm planning to upload a lot of data my cloud drive and I might want 1 Gbps despite poor customer service. Either that or we'll at least upgrade to 1200/40 for the slightly less sucky upload speed.

EDIT: thanks for the link on docsis 3.1 modems, it'd be nice to get better upload speeds on 3.1 before 4.0 arrives.
Have you considered purchasing a NAS to use at home for your own cloud? We setup a Synology NAS and hosted our family photo's and purchased music and can access it via apps on our smartphones. The cost of a NAS would more than pay for itself after a while, plus its a good place to store backups of your devices at home.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:50 pm
squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:06 pm
audioengr wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:41 pm
rockstar wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 pm
seawolf21 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:58 pm
You mentioned DOCSIS 4. Is your ISP even going to support cable when upping their offering to symmetrical speeds? Take Optimum for instance. They are rolling out fiber for their symmetrical down/up 1GB offering.

In regards to cloud backup, there is the flexibility of letting it upload 24/7 to overcome low upload speed.
I have a little over a 1TB limit on data. And the time to upload on a 10 up line isn't worth the headache.

Here's what I'm hearing about DOCSIS 4:

https://www.fiercetelecom.com/operators ... their-labs

The other possibility is what cellphone companies will provide. 5G is good competition against cable providers right now if you're close to antennas. I'm not super close, so it's not viable for me yet as a substitution. But this should put downward pressure on the prices. The next iteration should be a viable competitor, so the cable companies have to do something.
I think you're far more likely to see a continuation of the evolution of DOCSIS 3.1.
https://www.fiercetelecom.com/telecom/c ... eir-sleeve

DOCSIS 4.0 is at least 2 years away, and likely longer than that.
https://dgtlinfra.com/docsis-4-0-next-generation-cable

Our local utility is rolling out fiber to the home. They're going head to head with ATT who already deployed fiber to the home.
Both the Utility and ATT have begun offering speeds in excess of 1Gb symmetrical.
https://www.kub.org/fiber-shopping/residential


For the cutting edge of home internet, move to Chattanooga TN. First 1Gb home internet offering, now fastest speed available.
https://epb.com/newsroom/epb-news/epb-l ... b-service/
We last lived in Mountain View CA, where we had 1 Gbps fiber and it was great, we got about 940 mbps both ways with a latency of about 7 ms.
Right now unfortunately we have Comcast cable at 600/20 which is terrible in regard to upload speed and latency. There is another provider which supposedly offers some kind of FTTN, with fiber going to the cental office, and coax cable to home. They are supposed to provide 1 Gbps but my neighbors are not happy with them, so I'm resiting for now.

Although at some point I'm planning to upload a lot of data my cloud drive and I might want 1 Gbps despite poor customer service. Either that or we'll at least upgrade to 1200/40 for the slightly less sucky upload speed.

EDIT: thanks for the link on docsis 3.1 modems, it'd be nice to get better upload speeds on 3.1 before 4.0 arrives.
Have you considered purchasing a NAS to use at home for your own cloud? We setup a Synology NAS and hosted our family photo's and purchased music and can access it via apps on our smartphones. The cost of a NAS would more than pay for itself after a while, plus its a good place to store backups of your devices at home.
I do have a NAS, I have two Qotom fanless PC, one is used for firewall (with pfSense), the other one is a FreeBSD install with Samba 4, which provides SMB access for Windows. Works out pretty neatly and it's very small. I do however also want a cloud backup eventually instead of having to make a backup and store it in safe box.

This is the hardware I use, I have 32 Gb memory installed: https://www.amazon.com/Qotom-Q555G6-S05 ... 257&sr=8-5
Internally there are two storage slots, one M.2 mini-PCI key and one SSD slot. For the NAS I use a 7.6 TB drive.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by enad »

squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:11 pm
enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:50 pm
Have you considered purchasing a NAS to use at home for your own cloud? We setup a Synology NAS and hosted our family photo's and purchased music and can access it via apps on our smartphones. The cost of a NAS would more than pay for itself after a while, plus its a good place to store backups of your devices at home.
I do have a NAS, I have two Qotom fanless PC, one is used for firewall (with pfSense), the other one is a FreeBSD install with Samba 4, which provides SMB access for Windows. Works out pretty neatly and it's very small. I do however also want a cloud backup eventually instead of having to make a backup and store it in safe box.

This is the hardware I use, I have 32 Gb memory installed: https://www.amazon.com/Qotom-Q555G6-S05 ... 257&sr=8-5
Internally there are two storage slots, one M.2 mini-PCI key and one SSD slot. For the NAS I use a 7.6 TB drive.
Are your backups automated except for the part of rotating your USB storage devices?
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:36 pm
squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:11 pm
enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:50 pm
Have you considered purchasing a NAS to use at home for your own cloud? We setup a Synology NAS and hosted our family photo's and purchased music and can access it via apps on our smartphones. The cost of a NAS would more than pay for itself after a while, plus its a good place to store backups of your devices at home.
I do have a NAS, I have two Qotom fanless PC, one is used for firewall (with pfSense), the other one is a FreeBSD install with Samba 4, which provides SMB access for Windows. Works out pretty neatly and it's very small. I do however also want a cloud backup eventually instead of having to make a backup and store it in safe box.

This is the hardware I use, I have 32 Gb memory installed: https://www.amazon.com/Qotom-Q555G6-S05 ... 257&sr=8-5
Internally there are two storage slots, one M.2 mini-PCI key and one SSD slot. For the NAS I use a 7.6 TB drive.
Are your backups automated except for the part of rotating your USB storage devices?
It's a trivial shell script which does a recursive copy, nothing fancy. Plus I also have other scripts to compare against previous md5 checksums to hunt for possible corrupt data. I also have snapshots enabled on the NAS filer.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by mrmass »

squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:45 am
One minor annoyance about Ubiquiti wifi access points is that they require a small Linux box to run the management software, and I use another really old PcEngines box. A Raspberry PI would work just as well. Of course the big advantage is that management is centralized and as such very easy to do.
Aruba Networks InstantON APs form their own controllers without the need for a pc.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by enad »

squirrel1963 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:13 am
enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:36 pm
squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:11 pm
enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:50 pm
Have you considered purchasing a NAS to use at home for your own cloud? We setup a Synology NAS and hosted our family photo's and purchased music and can access it via apps on our smartphones. The cost of a NAS would more than pay for itself after a while, plus its a good place to store backups of your devices at home.
I do have a NAS, I have two Qotom fanless PC, one is used for firewall (with pfSense), the other one is a FreeBSD install with Samba 4, which provides SMB access for Windows. Works out pretty neatly and it's very small. I do however also want a cloud backup eventually instead of having to make a backup and store it in safe box.

This is the hardware I use, I have 32 Gb memory installed: https://www.amazon.com/Qotom-Q555G6-S05 ... 257&sr=8-5
Internally there are two storage slots, one M.2 mini-PCI key and one SSD slot. For the NAS I use a 7.6 TB drive.
Are your backups automated except for the part of rotating your USB storage devices?
It's a trivial shell script which does a recursive copy, nothing fancy. Plus I also have other scripts to compare against previous md5 checksums to hunt for possible corrupt data. I also have snapshots enabled on the NAS filer.
It sounds like you have a well thought out system that is meeting your needs.

We're running Linux on our PC's and Windows in Virtual Machines. The backups are scheduled and create 14 tarballs of the OS, home, key-system-modified files, virtual machines. A sha1sum is calculated on the source and each copy and if any errors an alert is sent via email.

We have two networks (one with internet access and one without). A small NAS that sits on the internet accessible network only has a subset of family photo's and purchased music and doesn't need to get backed up. It's our personal cloud and we can access the photo's and music from our smartphone as well as share the photo's with our extended family.

The NAS are backed up by another NAS with attached USB storage and we get an alert when the USB copies are written and we swap it with the older of two USB devices in the safe. Like you we tried to automate things to the greatest extent possible

To me this avoids the need for a commercial cloud account which can be expensive with ever changing terms plus in the back of my head I don't trust them with my financial data even though it is encrypted.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

enad wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:02 am
squirrel1963 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:13 am
enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:36 pm
squirrel1963 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:11 pm
enad wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:50 pm
Have you considered purchasing a NAS to use at home for your own cloud? We setup a Synology NAS and hosted our family photo's and purchased music and can access it via apps on our smartphones. The cost of a NAS would more than pay for itself after a while, plus its a good place to store backups of your devices at home.
I do have a NAS, I have two Qotom fanless PC, one is used for firewall (with pfSense), the other one is a FreeBSD install with Samba 4, which provides SMB access for Windows. Works out pretty neatly and it's very small. I do however also want a cloud backup eventually instead of having to make a backup and store it in safe box.

This is the hardware I use, I have 32 Gb memory installed: https://www.amazon.com/Qotom-Q555G6-S05 ... 257&sr=8-5
Internally there are two storage slots, one M.2 mini-PCI key and one SSD slot. For the NAS I use a 7.6 TB drive.
Are your backups automated except for the part of rotating your USB storage devices?
It's a trivial shell script which does a recursive copy, nothing fancy. Plus I also have other scripts to compare against previous md5 checksums to hunt for possible corrupt data. I also have snapshots enabled on the NAS filer.
It sounds like you have a well thought out system that is meeting your needs.

We're running Linux on our PC's and Windows in Virtual Machines. The backups are scheduled and create 14 tarballs of the OS, home, key-system-modified files, virtual machines. A sha1sum is calculated on the source and each copy and if any errors an alert is sent via email.

We have two networks (one with internet access and one without). A small NAS that sits on the internet accessible network only has a subset of family photo's and purchased music and doesn't need to get backed up. It's our personal cloud and we can access the photo's and music from our smartphone as well as share the photo's with our extended family.

The NAS are backed up by another NAS with attached USB storage and we get an alert when the USB copies are written and we swap it with the older of two USB devices in the safe. Like you we tried to automate things to the greatest extent possible

To me this avoids the need for a commercial cloud account which can be expensive with ever changing terms plus in the back of my head I don't trust them with my financial data even though it is encrypted.
Your setup is really slick, I like the idea of a second NAS which automates the backup process.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by Diluted Waters »

andypanda wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:51 am I hear you.

I just checked again to get our up speed. The laptop on wifi got speedtest scores of 653 down and 29.9 up.
That's with "Latency: 15 ms Server: Washington" from Richmond VA. I assume they mean D.C.

I'd stretch a wire across the room and retest, but I'm lazy.

The Comcast speed test shows 585 and 39.5 with a Richmond host.
All this talk of these speeds boggles my mind. We live in a rural area and were stuck with 20mbps/1.5mbps (on a good day!) DSL until we got our Starlink dish. Now with Starlink we're seeing about 104mbps/10mbps (which is a lot less than SL was pitching but still) and I feel like a hog in mud!

With respect to your upgrade proposal, I agree with others that if your infrastructure currently meets or exceeds your ISP performance and intranet performance needs (like NAS, multiple 4K+ streams, multiple real-time gaming), increasing your infrastructure performance won't help much and the money will mostly go to waste, as the speed constraint won't change. For the money, upgrade your network only if there is a constraint in it that under-performs you ISP or your intranet use cases.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by xb7 »

enad wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:02 am We have two networks (one with internet access and one without). A small NAS that sits on the internet accessible network only has a subset of family photo's and purchased music and doesn't need to get backed up. It's our personal cloud and we can access the photo's and music from our smartphone as well as share the photo's with our extended family.

The NAS are backed up by another NAS with attached USB storage and we get an alert when the USB copies are written and we swap it with the older of two USB devices in the safe. Like you we tried to automate things to the greatest extent possible

To me this avoids the need for a commercial cloud account which can be expensive with ever changing terms plus in the back of my head I don't trust them with my financial data even though it is encrypted.
You've almost certainly thought of this already but ...

The issues with this solution for me would be (1) My wife would find it too complicated to manage were I away for a long while or ultimately --- predecease her, and (2) If your house burns down you and extended family lose all of your data, unless you have some offsite tactic that you didn't mention.

The former can perhaps be mitigated if you have another family member who can become temporary home IT person. The latter if you have a capable offsite relative who can reliably manage a sort of local/personal family cloud. Or a really, really fireproof safe I guess. It would still make me nervous having all of my data eggs in just one location.

I find that using a commercial cloud backup service along with a second local backup is best for me in terms of ease of use.
I do hear you w.r.t. the disinclination to send all of your data up into some company's cloud however !
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

xb7 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:12 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:02 am We have two networks (one with internet access and one without). A small NAS that sits on the internet accessible network only has a subset of family photo's and purchased music and doesn't need to get backed up. It's our personal cloud and we can access the photo's and music from our smartphone as well as share the photo's with our extended family.

The NAS are backed up by another NAS with attached USB storage and we get an alert when the USB copies are written and we swap it with the older of two USB devices in the safe. Like you we tried to automate things to the greatest extent possible

To me this avoids the need for a commercial cloud account which can be expensive with ever changing terms plus in the back of my head I don't trust them with my financial data even though it is encrypted.
You've almost certainly thought of this already but ...

The issues with this solution for me would be (1) My wife would find it too complicated to manage were I away for a long while or ultimately --- predecease her, and (2) If your house burns down you and extended family lose all of your data, unless you have some offsite tactic that you didn't mention.

The former can perhaps be mitigated if you have another family member who can become temporary home IT person. The latter if you have a capable offsite relative who can reliably manage a sort of local/personal family cloud. Or a really, really fireproof safe I guess. It would still make me nervous having all of my data eggs in just one location.

I find that using a commercial cloud backup service along with a second local backup is best for me in terms of ease of use.
I do hear you w.r.t. the disinclination to send all of your data up into some company's cloud however !
This is also the reason I'm simplifying, as there is no one else in the family who would become the "IT person". I'm alloy migrating all the important data (which is needed after I'm gone) on an online drive.
As far as security I used to work for Amazon AWS and Oracle OCI, I know enough of their security best practices that I am not concerned about security of an online drive.
That said, account passwords have to be stored separately in a password manager (encrypted of course).
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by enad »

xb7 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:12 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:02 am We have two networks (one with internet access and one without). A small NAS that sits on the internet accessible network only has a subset of family photo's and purchased music and doesn't need to get backed up. It's our personal cloud and we can access the photo's and music from our smartphone as well as share the photo's with our extended family.

The NAS are backed up by another NAS with attached USB storage and we get an alert when the USB copies are written and we swap it with the older of two USB devices in the safe. Like you we tried to automate things to the greatest extent possible

To me this avoids the need for a commercial cloud account which can be expensive with ever changing terms plus in the back of my head I don't trust them with my financial data even though it is encrypted.
You've almost certainly thought of this already but ...

The issues with this solution for me would be (1) My wife would find it too complicated to manage were I away for a long while or ultimately --- predecease her, and (2) If your house burns down you and extended family lose all of your data, unless you have some offsite tactic that you didn't mention.

The former can perhaps be mitigated if you have another family member who can become temporary home IT person. The latter if you have a capable offsite relative who can reliably manage a sort of local/personal family cloud. Or a really, really fireproof safe I guess. It would still make me nervous having all of my data eggs in just one location.

I find that using a commercial cloud backup service along with a second local backup is best for me in terms of ease of use.
I do hear you w.r.t. the disinclination to send all of your data up into some company's cloud however !
Both safes are fire rated for 2 hours, and the house has overhead sprinklers which are on their own zones. I hope they never go off. The Fire Department comes out every few years to check them, which is something my insurance company insists on to maintain the discount. Best $1000 I spent when I was building the house.

Now my wife doesn't like complicated either and told me if I am gone she would tear everything apart and go simple. When I asked what that might be she said more powerful smartphones with unlimited monthly plans. Nice to know the money will be well spent.

Best wishes.
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Re: DOCSIS 4.0 and WIFI 7 [upgrading existing network gear]

Post by squirrel1963 »

enad wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:41 pm
xb7 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:12 pm
enad wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:02 am We have two networks (one with internet access and one without). A small NAS that sits on the internet accessible network only has a subset of family photo's and purchased music and doesn't need to get backed up. It's our personal cloud and we can access the photo's and music from our smartphone as well as share the photo's with our extended family.

The NAS are backed up by another NAS with attached USB storage and we get an alert when the USB copies are written and we swap it with the older of two USB devices in the safe. Like you we tried to automate things to the greatest extent possible

To me this avoids the need for a commercial cloud account which can be expensive with ever changing terms plus in the back of my head I don't trust them with my financial data even though it is encrypted.
You've almost certainly thought of this already but ...

The issues with this solution for me would be (1) My wife would find it too complicated to manage were I away for a long while or ultimately --- predecease her, and (2) If your house burns down you and extended family lose all of your data, unless you have some offsite tactic that you didn't mention.

The former can perhaps be mitigated if you have another family member who can become temporary home IT person. The latter if you have a capable offsite relative who can reliably manage a sort of local/personal family cloud. Or a really, really fireproof safe I guess. It would still make me nervous having all of my data eggs in just one location.

I find that using a commercial cloud backup service along with a second local backup is best for me in terms of ease of use.
I do hear you w.r.t. the disinclination to send all of your data up into some company's cloud however !
Both safes are fire rated for 2 hours, and the house has overhead sprinklers which are on their own zones. I hope they never go off. The Fire Department comes out every few years to check them, which is something my insurance company insists on to maintain the discount. Best $1000 I spent when I was building the house.

Now my wife doesn't like complicated either and told me if I am gone she would tear everything apart and go simple. When I asked what that might be she said more powerful smartphones with unlimited monthly plans. Nice to know the money will be well spent.

Best wishes.
My wife also wants simple, she'll want everything on OneDrive + Lastpass. Biggest space hog is the pictures I took (I have the raw format, photoshop file and final tiff and jpeg). My wife won't care about raw formats or anything, so I'll slowly process all the pictures and copy the jpeg / tiff files on OneDrive. All the documents are on OneDrive already.
| LMP | safe portfolio: TIPS ladder + I-bonds + Treasuries | risky portfolio: US stocks / US REIT / International stocks |
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