Interview - Asked about Salary

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
KlangFool
Posts: 25854
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by KlangFool »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:50 am
Yeah, that's a good approach. The thing is, I was out of their ballpark (based on that phony "range" initially given), and making them go beyond the "range" is a win. It could have very well been "sorry, we can't pay that much, goodbye" type situation if I demanded my current salary.
Marseille07,

" The thing is, I was out of their ballpark (based on that phony "range" initially given), "

You do not know that.

"making them go beyond the "range" is a win."

This is not true. If this is true, you would not be hesitant in taking up the offer now.

"I like the job but my current Total Compensation is this. Please make me your best offer."

You are not demanding your current salary. You are asking them to make their best offer. There is a subtle but very important difference.

"It could have very well been "sorry, we can't pay that much, goodbye" type situation if I demanded my current salary."

And, it may not been a loss for you.

https://www.maxmednik.com/blog/notes-on ... d-weinberg
"Principle of least regret: set the price so u won't regret it either way"

You should set a price/salary where

A) If they say yes, you would be happy to accept it.

B) If they say no, you would be okay that they reject it.

You violated the principle of least regret. You are guaranteed to lose. They say "yes" but you are not happy. You had set you price/salary too low.

Know the price that would make you happy and ask for it. At least you get a chance to be happy. If you ask for a price that you would not be happy even if they say yes, you are guaranteed to be unhappy. Why would you want to do that? That was your problem.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
AnEngineer
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by AnEngineer »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:02 am https://www.maxmednik.com/blog/notes-on ... d-weinberg
"Principle of least regret: set the price so u won't regret it either way"

You should set a price/salary where

A) If they say yes, you would be happy to accept it.

B) If they say no, you would be okay that they reject it.

You violated the principle of least regret. You are guaranteed to lose. They say "yes" but you are not happy. You had set you price/salary too low.

Know the price that would make you happy and ask for it. At least you get a chance to be happy. If you ask for a price that you would not be happy even if they say yes, you are guaranteed to be unhappy. Why would you want to do that? That was your problem.

KlangFool
I'm skeptical of how practical it is for salary negotiation. As sometimes you need a new job, there may be a band of salaries where you are neither happy if they accept it nor okay if they reject it. For example, there may be a band where you'd take it because it beats your available alternatives but you're not happy about it. This may be what Marseille07 is considering.
Marseille07
Posts: 10518
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:41 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by Marseille07 »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:02 am " The thing is, I was out of their ballpark (based on that phony "range" initially given), "

You do not know that.
? I do know this, assuming the range was disclosed in good faith. I don't know why you are arguing this.

Obviously if we think the range was a lie, then we don't know. But we can only go by what they tell you.
US & FM (5% seed) | 350K Cash
KlangFool
Posts: 25854
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by KlangFool »

AnEngineer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:12 am
I'm skeptical of how practical it is for salary negotiation. As sometimes you need a new job, there may be a band of salaries where you are neither happy if they accept it nor okay if they reject it. For example, there may be a band where you'd take it because it beats your available alternatives but you're not happy about it. This may be what Marseille07 is considering.
AnEngineer,

I never need a new job. I saved 1 year of expense every year while I was employed to make sure of that.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
AnEngineer
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by AnEngineer »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:35 am
AnEngineer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:12 am
I'm skeptical of how practical it is for salary negotiation. As sometimes you need a new job, there may be a band of salaries where you are neither happy if they accept it nor okay if they reject it. For example, there may be a band where you'd take it because it beats your available alternatives but you're not happy about it. This may be what Marseille07 is considering.
AnEngineer,

I never need a new job. I saved 1 year of expense every year while I was employed to make sure of that.

KlangFool
Not everyone is in that position. But even if so, you could get to the end of your money after a bunch of prospective employers declining to meet your salary ask. The main point is there are salaries that people will take but be unhappy about not having more. If you are happy continuing in your current position then I think it's a good approach.
KlangFool
Posts: 25854
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by KlangFool »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:23 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:02 am " The thing is, I was out of their ballpark (based on that phony "range" initially given), "

You do not know that.
? I do know this,
Marseille07,

If you are really out of their range, they could not make you an offer outside of that range. By doing that, it is obvious that their real range is something else.

"Obviously if we think the range was a lie, then we don't know. "

Come on. You should know better that there is a grey area between lie and telling the whole truth.

"But we can only go by what they tell you."

Who says so? You can learn from what they choose not to tell you. And, by what they do and so on.

Aka, read between the lines.

It is very simple.

Negotiation like every other skill in life. You can choose to learn how to be better at it or don't. And, those who know how to negotiate can get a better deal.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
KlangFool
Posts: 25854
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by KlangFool »

AnEngineer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:40 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:35 am
AnEngineer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:12 am
I'm skeptical of how practical it is for salary negotiation. As sometimes you need a new job, there may be a band of salaries where you are neither happy if they accept it nor okay if they reject it. For example, there may be a band where you'd take it because it beats your available alternatives but you're not happy about it. This may be what Marseille07 is considering.
AnEngineer,

I never need a new job. I saved 1 year of expense every year while I was employed to make sure of that.

KlangFool
Not everyone is in that position. But even if so, you could get to the end of your money after a bunch of prospective employers declining to meet your salary ask. The main point is there are salaries that people will take but be unhappy about not having more. If you are happy continuing in your current position then I think it's a good approach.
AnEngineer,

"Not everyone is in that position."

To each its own. Their choice their lives.

"But even if so, you could get to the end of your money after a bunch of prospective employers declining to meet your salary ask."

I think you missed my key point. My goal is not necessary to ask for more. My goal is to ask for a salary where I would be happy to accept. For example, I could make a lot more money if I take on some other jobs. But, my current job pay 30% to 40% more than my previous job plus it has much better work life balance, so I take the job.

I am financially independent. I do not have to take any job. So, it is very simple. Either the employer makes me a good enough offer or I would just leave it.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Marseille07
Posts: 10518
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:41 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by Marseille07 »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:42 am If you are really out of their range, they could not make you an offer outside of that range. By doing that, it is obvious that their real range is something else.
Well, if you were following my situation, they changed the story and started arguing that they thought the phony "range" was my salary expectations, not their range for the role. In other words, no one mentioned their true range, and I didn't ask further either since I'd be concerned that whatever they say may not be true, anyway.

Anyhow, we're both professionals in the industry. I don't know your end goal of this conversation, we can wrap it up here in my opinion.
US & FM (5% seed) | 350K Cash
KlangFool
Posts: 25854
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by KlangFool »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:50 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:42 am If you are really out of their range, they could not make you an offer outside of that range. By doing that, it is obvious that their real range is something else.
Well, if you were following my situation, they changed the story and started arguing that they thought the phony "range" was my salary expectations, not their range for the role. In other words, no one mentioned their true range, and I didn't ask further either since I'd be concerned that whatever they say may not be true, anyway.

Anyhow, we're both professionals in the industry. I don't know your end goal of this conversation, we can wrap it up here in my opinion.
Marseille07,

Your cup is full. Good luck to your negotiation!

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Marseille07
Posts: 10518
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:41 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by Marseille07 »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:53 am
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:50 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:42 am If you are really out of their range, they could not make you an offer outside of that range. By doing that, it is obvious that their real range is something else.
Well, if you were following my situation, they changed the story and started arguing that they thought the phony "range" was my salary expectations, not their range for the role. In other words, no one mentioned their true range, and I didn't ask further either since I'd be concerned that whatever they say may not be true, anyway.

Anyhow, we're both professionals in the industry. I don't know your end goal of this conversation, we can wrap it up here in my opinion.
Marseille07,

Your cup is full. Good luck to your negotiation!

KlangFool
Since I offered a pay cut, my cup is not full. I appreciate your tip to ask for their best offer. I think that's a good idea.
Last edited by Marseille07 on Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
US & FM (5% seed) | 350K Cash
AnEngineer
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by AnEngineer »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am ...I think you missed my key point. My goal is not necessary to ask for more. My goal is to ask for a salary where I would be happy to accept. ...
That's a fair strategy, but you also couple it with you being okay if they reject it. (Maybe I'm assuming too much that rejection means no job in the end.) I'm saying there's a difference between being happy to accept an offer and being willing to accept an offer. In your position, those sound like the same, but that's not universally true.
KlangFool
Posts: 25854
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by KlangFool »

AnEngineer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:59 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am ...I think you missed my key point. My goal is not necessary to ask for more. My goal is to ask for a salary where I would be happy to accept. ...
That's a fair strategy, but you also couple it with you being okay if they reject it. (Maybe I'm assuming too much that rejection means no job in the end.) I'm saying there's a difference between being happy to accept an offer and being willing to accept an offer. In your position, those sound like the same, but that's not universally true.
AnEngineer,

I am not sure where and what is the problem.

I know the salary range before I starts the interview. Let's say that the salary range is from 120K to 150K. It is within the range of acceptable offer. After the interview, I ask the employer to make me their best offer.

Depending on how I like the job, I can either accept the offer or ask them to make a better offer.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
AnEngineer
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by AnEngineer »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:12 am
AnEngineer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:59 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:48 am ...I think you missed my key point. My goal is not necessary to ask for more. My goal is to ask for a salary where I would be happy to accept. ...
That's a fair strategy, but you also couple it with you being okay if they reject it. (Maybe I'm assuming too much that rejection means no job in the end.) I'm saying there's a difference between being happy to accept an offer and being willing to accept an offer. In your position, those sound like the same, but that's not universally true.
AnEngineer,

I am not sure where and what is the problem.

I know the salary range before I starts the interview. Let's say that the salary range is from 120K to 150K. It is within the range of acceptable offer. After the interview, I ask the employer to make me their best offer.

Depending on how I like the job, I can either accept the offer or ask them to make a better offer.

KlangFool
What you just said is fine.

It sounded like what you were positing that there is always a salary number at which if offered you are happy to accept and if not offered you are happy to reject. I'm saying that's not always true, sometimes you would not be happy to walk away if not offered that salary. There are situations where you end up not happy if they don't meet your salary ask. If you're not claiming that there is always a number where you end up happy no matter their response I'm not taking any issue.
BogleMelon
Posts: 2884
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by BogleMelon »

OP, which state are you in? In some states, the question of "how much you are currently making" is illegal to ask. https://www.hrdive.com/news/salary-hist ... st/516662/
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
core4portfolio
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: Interview - Asked about Salary

Post by core4portfolio »

How much do you want then ask 10% more and see what happens. if its too much beyond their range then they may come back as its not possible.
if its 10 to 15% more then they tell you upfront.
For base pay, I asked X dollars and they said X-5% and i agreed however asked for bonus as one time payment.
Check what components make a salary !!!!!
i was not very stringest however i know my range
Allocation : 80/20 (90% TSM, 10% on ARKK,XBI,XLK/individual stocks and 20% TBM) | | Need to learn fishing sooner
Post Reply