Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

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estrellamts
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Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

I manage my elderly parents I Bond accounts and made the fatal mistake of answering one of my own chosen security questions incorrectly. (I've now realized the correct answer but too late).

My question is this...has anyone called and waited the 1-2 hours to get an account unlocked...but for an account belonging to a relative you have managed for? Mom's account is set up with my email address and phone number and I have all the pertinent information including CORRECT answers to security questions. I'm worried I'll wait two hours only to be told that she will have to personally call in to unlock the account. I'm in one state and she is in another...and really hate to put her through trying to resolve this.

Hoping to hear from someone who has been through this.
tfunk
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by tfunk »

I was able to handle my Mom's account using a Power of Attorney.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

tfunk wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:43 pm I was able to handle my Mom's account using a Power of Attorney.
I assume though I'd have to send in paperwork through the mail for setting that up? Based on what I'm seeing in some of the Q&A...anything outside the ordinary like sending in paperwork would take weeks.
Katietsu
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Katietsu »

I have done a 3 way call for this kind of thing. Could that work? I am not sure what you are doing is actually allowed.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

Katietsu wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:52 pm I have done a 3 way call for this kind of thing. Could that work? I am not sure what you are doing is actually allowed.
I'm not sure what is or isn't allowed either so I believe I'll resort to having her call and spend the 2 hours waiting...and when they answer...she'll call me to be involved in the unlocking process. Wish there was a better way of handling communication with the admins of the site. I'll definitely be discussing in the same conversation on what's needed in setting up power of attorney. I'm guessing paperwork in the mail and weeks of waiting.
sixtyforty
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by sixtyforty »

estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:37 pm I manage my elderly parents I Bond accounts and made the fatal mistake of answering one of my own chosen security questions incorrectly. (I've now realized the correct answer but too late).

My question is this...has anyone called and waited the 1-2 hours to get an account unlocked...but for an account belonging to a relative you have managed for? Mom's account is set up with my email address and phone number and I have all the pertinent information including CORRECT answers to security questions. I'm worried I'll wait two hours only to be told that she will have to personally call in to unlock the account. I'm in one state and she is in another...and really hate to put her through trying to resolve this.

Hoping to hear from someone who has been through this.
Just call as soon as the open. And I mean the second they open. I did and the wait was only 10 minutes.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
DarkHelmetII
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by DarkHelmetII »

In case it helps: I recently called Treasury Direct navigating phone tree to the locked account prompt (I was just trying to get a live person). Prompt said 2+ hours, call was answered in little over 1 hour. Still not great but my point is, if calling early in the morning (this was a few minutes past 8 AM) the hold time might not be as long as advertised, as painful as it still is.
Fremdon Ferndock
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Fremdon Ferndock »

Sorry, I can't help you get through this snafu. I expect that you will need to have your mother present to speak with TD on the phone if you ever get through to them, or you'll be wasting your wait time.

I did the same thing as you, managing my mother's I-Bonds at Treasury Direct online for years. I knew that was technically illegal, because I had no power-of-attorney filed with TD (I did have her DPOA). Even if you do, I believe you are still supposed to go through the process of sending a paper from to request transactions and technically have no authority to do this online.

I've been checking into this matter for myself, concerned about how my I-Bonds can be handled by someone else in the event I become disabled. I've learned that filing your own attorney-prepared DPOA might not be a smooth process either. They want you to submit their own DPOA, so you might consider doing that in case you run into a snag again. Here it is:

https://treasurydirect.gov/forms/sav5188.pdf

You might want to scroll through the various forms available at TD also:

https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/forms/ ... sBonds.htm
"Risk is what’s left over when you think you’ve thought of everything." ~ Morgan Housel
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

Fremdon Ferndock wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:28 am Sorry, I can't help you get through this snafu. I expect that you will need to have your mother present to speak with TD on the phone if you ever get through to them, or you'll be wasting your wait time.

I did the same thing as you, managing my mother's I-Bonds at Treasury Direct online for years. I knew that was technically illegal, because I had no power-of-attorney filed with TD (I did have her DPOA). Even if you do, I believe you are still supposed to go through the process of sending a paper from to request transactions and technically have no authority to do this online.

I've been checking into this matter for myself, concerned about how my I-Bonds can be handled by someone else in the event I become disabled. I've learned that filing your own attorney-prepared DPOA might not be a smooth process either. They want you to submit their own DPOA, so you might consider doing that in case you run into a snag again. Here it is:

https://treasurydirect.gov/forms/sav5188.pdf

You might want to scroll through the various forms available at TD also:

https://treasurydirect.gov/indiv/forms/ ... sBonds.htm
Thank you...VERY helpful info.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

DarkHelmetII wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:48 am In case it helps: I recently called Treasury Direct navigating phone tree to the locked account prompt (I was just trying to get a live person). Prompt said 2+ hours, call was answered in little over 1 hour. Still not great but my point is, if calling early in the morning (this was a few minutes past 8 AM) the hold time might not be as long as advertised, as painful as it still is.
OK thank you. I'm visiting her in a few weeks and have decided to wait to call until I get there. We WILL call early. :happy
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

sixtyforty wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:49 am
estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:37 pm I manage my elderly parents I Bond accounts and made the fatal mistake of answering one of my own chosen security questions incorrectly. (I've now realized the correct answer but too late).

My question is this...has anyone called and waited the 1-2 hours to get an account unlocked...but for an account belonging to a relative you have managed for? Mom's account is set up with my email address and phone number and I have all the pertinent information including CORRECT answers to security questions. I'm worried I'll wait two hours only to be told that she will have to personally call in to unlock the account. I'm in one state and she is in another...and really hate to put her through trying to resolve this.

Hoping to hear from someone who has been through this.
Just call as soon as the open. And I mean the second they open. I did and the wait was only 10 minutes.


Thanks will do exactly this.
tibbitts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by tibbitts »

estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 pm
LittleMaggieMae wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:55 pm oh jeez, I'm a bit of a rebel. If I was the OP, I would just make the call and not say anything about not being Mom unless they specifically asked. I'd also maybe call from a phone number associated with your mom - but not necessary. You might want to have Mom's date of birth and last 4 digits of her SS# handy...

I assume the OP has access to the email or phone where any multi level authentication is going to go? Cause that will be the next hurdle to jump.

I'm assuming Mom isn't signing in and checking her own email or when a "security code" is sent to Mom's phone she's not the one keying it in...

Just saying.
One complication....her SON is managing. If I'd only incorrectly answered the security question on DAD's account instead......
I'm not sure that would be a problem since it seems to be difficult to determine sex by voice.
2pedals
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by 2pedals »

I would think that a power of attorney would be required to protect the interests of your Mom and to prove you have fiduciary responsibilities.
HomeStretch
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by HomeStretch »

Good luck getting the account unlocked. If you go the TD POA route, please post back about what it entails and how long it takes to put in place. Might be helpful to others.
FellsGuy
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by FellsGuy »

Please do complete the loop on how you resolve this. This is the issue with TD the most likely users are most likely to forget or miss type the sequence of questions to log in. One family friend I helped set up an account locked himself out and it was over 4 hours on hold to free the account out of lockdown. This could be a fantastic service for middle income retirees but the customer service aspect has to get better.
Fremdon Ferndock
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Fremdon Ferndock »

HomeStretch wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:55 am Good luck getting the account unlocked. If you go the TD POA route, please post back about what it entails and how long it takes to put in place. Might be helpful to others.
That won't solve the problem of being locked out of the online account. It would be a real PITA to manage Mom's account by filling out and mailing snail mail forms every time you want to do something. I'm not sure if having the DPOA would allow you to call TD and get the account unlocked yourself -- might still need to get Mom on the phone since the account is in her name.
"Risk is what’s left over when you think you’ve thought of everything." ~ Morgan Housel
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FreddieFIRE
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by FreddieFIRE »

estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:37 pm I manage my elderly parents I Bond accounts and made the fatal mistake of answering one of my own chosen security questions incorrectly. (I've now realized the correct answer but too late).
Do you have legal rights to access this account?
FIRE?? Just call me "Ready Freddie."
tibbitts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by tibbitts »

FreddieFIRE wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:14 pm
estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:37 pm I manage my elderly parents I Bond accounts and made the fatal mistake of answering one of my own chosen security questions incorrectly. (I've now realized the correct answer but too late).
Do you have legal rights to access this account?
No, but it seems like in cases like these it's not helpful to get sidetracked into exactly where assisting someone perform a transaction morphs into performing the transaction for them. To me the only lesson here is a reminder to be careful when authenticating at any website and to never assume that recovery from authentication errors will be trivial.
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FreddieFIRE
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by FreddieFIRE »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:47 pm
FreddieFIRE wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:14 pm
estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:37 pm I manage my elderly parents I Bond accounts and made the fatal mistake of answering one of my own chosen security questions incorrectly. (I've now realized the correct answer but too late).
Do you have legal rights to access this account?
No, but it seems like in cases like these it's not helpful to get sidetracked into exactly where assisting someone perform a transaction morphs into performing the transaction for them. To me the only lesson here is a reminder to be careful when authenticating at any website and to never assume that recovery from authentication errors will be trivial.
There is also a "lesson" in properly setting up DPOA's and using them within the limits of the law.
FIRE?? Just call me "Ready Freddie."
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elpollo
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by elpollo »

estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:47 pm
tfunk wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:43 pm I was able to handle my Mom's account using a Power of Attorney.
I assume though I'd have to send in paperwork through the mail for setting that up? Based on what I'm seeing in some of the Q&A...anything outside the ordinary like sending in paperwork would take weeks.
I wanted to add a 2nd bank, got a medallion signature mailed it in, few weeks later, got an email that states:

"Cases are worked in the order they are received in our office. Your request is
important to us and will receive attention as soon as possible. Please allow up
to 13 weeks for review and processing.
If we require additional information, we
will contact you. Thank you for your patience."
Discussions should be conducted without fondness for dispute or desire for victory. - Benjamin Franklin
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willthrill81
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by willthrill81 »

I've been locked out of my Treasury Direct account since April because I haven't had the ability to devote half a day to waiting on hold. I'm hoping to finally do so next week.
Misenplace
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Misenplace »

A number of posts suggesting illegal behavior (impersonating mother) and quoting replies have been removed. For the record, discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law are totally unacceptable

The intent is to understand how to do this within the existing legal framework; in which case this discussion can continue. The approach is to educate members on how to do things legally. State your points in a factual manner. If the intent strays from this objective, please report the post and we'll investigate.

OP has indicated that they will get the power of attorney issues and access worked out with the parents in a legal manner, and will let us know how it goes.

Moderator Misenplace
2pedals
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by 2pedals »

My primary goal is to simplify my accounts as much as reasonably possible. I sold all of my treasury direct EE and I series bonds in order to simplify. They were only a small percentage of our portfolio (<3%). I don't want to leave my wife or heirs with issues similar to this.

If your Mom is planning on leaving you this account or is planning on a long-term duration (>10 years), I would suggest looking into purchasing TIPS at your brokerage account and/or suggest that your Mom purchase them at a brokerage account instead. Depending on how long of a term want you may actually be able to get a positive real return now. I-Bonds sold today have a fixed rate of 0% (plus the inflation rate).
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

elpollo wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:03 pm
estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:47 pm
tfunk wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:43 pm I was able to handle my Mom's account using a Power of Attorney.
I assume though I'd have to send in paperwork through the mail for setting that up? Based on what I'm seeing in some of the Q&A...anything outside the ordinary like sending in paperwork would take weeks.
I wanted to add a 2nd bank, got a medallion signature mailed it in, few weeks later, got an email that states:

"Cases are worked in the order they are received in our office. Your request is
important to us and will receive attention as soon as possible. Please allow up
to 13 weeks for review and processing.
If we require additional information, we
will contact you. Thank you for your patience."
Ugh...thank you for the heads up
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

Fremdon Ferndock wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:11 am
HomeStretch wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:55 am Good luck getting the account unlocked. If you go the TD POA route, please post back about what it entails and how long it takes to put in place. Might be helpful to others.
That won't solve the problem of being locked out of the online account. It would be a real PITA to manage Mom's account by filling out and mailing snail mail forms every time you want to do something. I'm not sure if having the DPOA would allow you to call TD and get the account unlocked yourself -- might still need to get Mom on the phone since the account is in her name.
Agreed...and will be handling this unlocking of the account in 3 weeks when I visit mom. Once the account is unlocked (with mom in the room) we will get the word on exactly how to handle the POA issue. For both my mom and dads accounts...they are set up for the secondary to be the other parent. This whole issue has brought up the subject as to what would happen if both parents were deceased or unable to manage. That's what I plan to get to the bottom of in the "unlock" phone call soon. Also, regarding the setting up of the accounts, the original intent was only to manage their account at their direction when buying further bonds or making changes. At 85...the computer presents challenges on occasion as most will imagine...and the setting up was done with both in the room. Hoping the POA streamlines this further. Will update when done. Thanks all.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

HomeStretch wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:55 am Good luck getting the account unlocked. If you go the TD POA route, please post back about what it entails and how long it takes to put in place. Might be helpful to others.
Will be glad to.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

FellsGuy wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:03 am Please do complete the loop on how you resolve this. This is the issue with TD the most likely users are most likely to forget or miss type the sequence of questions to log in. One family friend I helped set up an account locked himself out and it was over 4 hours on hold to free the account out of lockdown. This could be a fantastic service for middle income retirees but the customer service aspect has to get better.
Agreed. Like so many things...really good products and the popularity that follows seems to more often than not lead to poor customer service. I'm finding that with 5g home internet service right now...the cart has been put before the horse.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

2pedals wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:07 pm My primary goal is to simplify my accounts as much as reasonably possible. I sold all of my treasury direct EE and I series bonds in order to simplify. They were only a small percentage of our portfolio (<3%). I don't want to leave my wife or heirs with issues similar to this.

If your Mom is planning on leaving you this account or is planning on a long-term duration (>10 years), I would suggest looking into purchasing TIPS at your brokerage account and/or suggest that your Mom purchase them at a brokerage account instead. Depending on how long of a term want you may actually be able to get a positive real return now. I-Bonds sold today have a fixed rate of 0% (plus the inflation rate).
Thanks for this info.
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by MikeG62 »

estrellamts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:54 pm …At 85...the computer presents challenges on occasion as most will imagine...and the setting up was done with both in the room. Hoping the POA streamlines this further. Will update when done. Thanks all.
I feel your pain. I was just in Arizona visiting my parents and while there helped my dad (who is 89, has terrible reading eyesight and very poor hearing) navigate setting up a brokerage account at Fidelity for my parents revocable living trust so I could assist him in purchasing Treasuries. Required a call to Fidelity during the process - it was a lot of fun authenticating my Dad and having him approve their talking to me on his behalf. We did get the account set up and my parents were able to grant me full account rights which took a week to come through. Once their CU account linkage is ready for online transfers, I will assist them with the process of acquiring Treasuries through the rights they granted me. Hopefully, the hard work is behind us.

Good luck sorting the issue with your moms account.

My FIL had an issue trying to change the bank account he originally linked he TD account to. Ended up needing to call TD and like others kept telling me the wait was hours and hours. I called myself "as soon as they opened" one morning and received a message the wait was 10 minutes. Immediately had him call and he got through with only a short wait. This was in the 2nd half of April - when they were similarly swamped with new account issues.
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WillRetire
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by WillRetire »

OP: After you resolve the locked account problem, help your parents grant you "Transact rights" on their I-Bonds. Then you can perform transactions for them from your account.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/he ... tsDet2.htm
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anon_investor
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by anon_investor »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:33 pm I've been locked out of my Treasury Direct account since April because I haven't had the ability to devote half a day to waiting on hold. I'm hoping to finally do so next week.
Was there no option to mail in a form?
cas
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by cas »

estrellamts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:54 pm Agreed...and will be handling this unlocking of the account in 3 weeks when I visit mom. Once the account is unlocked (with mom in the room) we will get the word on exactly how to handle the POA issue.
I think Fremdon Ferndock may have already linked some of this, but ... before you talk to Treasury Direct ... if you google

power of attorney site:treasurydirect.gov

...you'll get links to 2 Treasury Direct forms for establishing power of attorney.

One form establishes the POA entirely using TD's form. It requires that the person granting the POA be able to go to the bank and sign a document. It has information on it about what the POA is allowed to do, although it doesn't answer several needed questions, like "What about online access?" (And, yes, the dreaded certifying officer seal is needed on the form.)

The other form lets you establish the POA at TD by using an existing general Durable Power of Attorney document. So, in theory, it could be used to establish an atty-in-fact at TD for an incapacitated person who had previously drawn up the general durable POA document. However, the form also requires that the bank put their certifying seal *on the copy of the existing general Durable Power of Attorney* form, authenticating its validity. I'm *highly* dubious that most banks will be willing to do this.

In any case, read the documents, and that will help you plan your schedule for your visit with your mother (i.e. whether you are going to need to schedule an appt with her bank to get a certifying officer seal on some document), focus your questions to the customer service rep, plus give you some background information to help evaluate whether the customer service rep seems to know what they are talking about. (Reportedly TD has brought on a lot of temp workers recently to help with the phone call volume, and there have been some bogleheads threads where the customer service rep (presumably one of the temps?) seems to have given out highly dubious information when asked about a situation that isn't one of the questions they get asked every third call.

I haven't personally used either one of the above forms, so I can't say how it all ends up working out.
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Fremdon Ferndock »

OP - I vaguely recall that I may have had the need to call TD about something once and needed my Mom present. They will ask some questions of her to verify her identity on the phone. I can't recall what, but make sure you have cliff notes written down for her. Some things I can think of are her SSN, Bank, account beneficiary, etc. and other information on her account, as well as the security questions and the answers. Perhaps someone following this thread has recently had to call TD to get their account unlocked and can recall what questions they asked.
"Risk is what’s left over when you think you’ve thought of everything." ~ Morgan Housel
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willthrill81
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by willthrill81 »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:18 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:33 pm I've been locked out of my Treasury Direct account since April because I haven't had the ability to devote half a day to waiting on hold. I'm hoping to finally do so next week.
Was there no option to mail in a form?
No. Calling is the only way to unlock the account.
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anon_investor
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by anon_investor »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:48 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:18 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:33 pm I've been locked out of my Treasury Direct account since April because I haven't had the ability to devote half a day to waiting on hold. I'm hoping to finally do so next week.
Was there no option to mail in a form?
No. Calling is the only way to unlock the account.
Good luck waking up at 5am PT to call first thing. :beer
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willthrill81
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by willthrill81 »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:05 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:48 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:18 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:33 pm I've been locked out of my Treasury Direct account since April because I haven't had the ability to devote half a day to waiting on hold. I'm hoping to finally do so next week.
Was there no option to mail in a form?
No. Calling is the only way to unlock the account.
Good luck waking up at 5am PT to call first thing. :beer
:x
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whodidntante
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by whodidntante »

I would think only your mom can unlock your mom's account. Or at least, I really hope so.
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by HomeStretch »

OP, when the POA is accepted by TD, test what you are allowed to do as their agent/attorney-in-fact. Likely you will need to do at least some transactions by submitting paper forms (rather than transacting online). You may also not be allowed by TD to do certain things, even if your parents’ attorney-drafted DPOAs give you the power. This may also be true of any other financial institutions where you are the agent for your parents.

I have handled my parents’ daily finances, investing and taxes for the last 7-8 years. It mostly worked fine with the financial institutions that had the POAs/agent forms on file. But now that my parents are no longer competent to assist when I can’t do something easily/at all as their agent/AIF, I have run into several situations where I have had to use their online access to complete the required transactions (such as changing my dad’s address when he went into the skilled nursing facility so his bills come to my house). Having a DPOA recognized by their financial institutions doesn’t allow you to help them 100% in my experience.

So my suggestion is, if you don’t have the information already, is to know their email/account passwords/security questions. Also be sure they each have online accounts set up for SS, Medicare, IRS and state tax authority. These agencies have onerous and time-consuming processes to be recognized as a representative for your parents.
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Fremdon Ferndock »

HomeStretch wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:39 pm OP, when the POA is accepted by TD, test what you are allowed to do as their agent/attorney-in-fact. Likely you will need to do at least some transactions by submitting paper forms (rather than transacting online). You may also not be allowed by TD to do certain things, even if your parents’ attorney-drafted DPOAs give you the power. This may also be true of any other financial institutions where you are the agent for your parents.

I have handled my parents’ daily finances, investing and taxes for the last 7-8 years. It mostly worked fine with the financial institutions that had the POAs/agent forms on file. But now that my parents are no longer competent to assist when I can’t do something easily/at all as their agent/AIF, I have run into several situations where I have had to use their online access to complete the required transactions (such as changing my dad’s address when he went into the skilled nursing facility so his bills come to my house). Having a DPOA recognized by their financial institutions doesn’t allow you to help them 100%.

So my suggestion is, if you don’t have the information already, is to know their email/account passwords/security questions. Also be sure they each have online accounts set up for SS, Medicare, IRS and state tax authority. These agencies have onerous and time-consuming processes to be recognized as a representative for your parents.
Yes, unfortunately many many financial institutions will not honor your attorney-prepared DPOA, as I posted in an earlier thread

viewtopic.php?t=379848

This is a huge problem. They require their own DPOA and often there are some real limitations in those such as not being able to name successors who can act if the named POA is unable or unwilling to serve. I'm afraid TD falls into this category and so does Vanguard.
"Risk is what’s left over when you think you’ve thought of everything." ~ Morgan Housel
Northern Flicker
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Northern Flicker »

estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:30 pm
Katietsu wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:52 pm I have done a 3 way call for this kind of thing. Could that work? I am not sure what you are doing is actually allowed.
I'm not sure what is or isn't allowed either so I believe I'll resort to having her call and spend the 2 hours waiting...and when they answer...she'll call me to be involved in the unlocking process. Wish there was a better way of handling communication with the admins of the site. I'll definitely be discussing in the same conversation on what's needed in setting up power of attorney. I'm guessing paperwork in the mail and weeks of waiting.
See if you can get POA forms from the web site without logging in. That process needs to be started ASAP.
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:55 pm
estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:30 pm
Katietsu wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:52 pm I have done a 3 way call for this kind of thing. Could that work? I am not sure what you are doing is actually allowed.
I'm not sure what is or isn't allowed either so I believe I'll resort to having her call and spend the 2 hours waiting...and when they answer...she'll call me to be involved in the unlocking process. Wish there was a better way of handling communication with the admins of the site. I'll definitely be discussing in the same conversation on what's needed in setting up power of attorney. I'm guessing paperwork in the mail and weeks of waiting.
See if you can get POA forms from the web site without logging in. That process needs to be started ASAP.

My main goal is to get the account unlocked so she can buy for 2022. Not so much in a hurry to get the POA done...as the 2022 purchase will be the only thing pressing. While visiting her however we will definitely get that process of POA taken care of and send on it's way. Thanks for your reply.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

cas wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:23 am
estrellamts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:54 pm Agreed...and will be handling this unlocking of the account in 3 weeks when I visit mom. Once the account is unlocked (with mom in the room) we will get the word on exactly how to handle the POA issue.
I think Fremdon Ferndock may have already linked some of this, but ... before you talk to Treasury Direct ... if you google

power of attorney site:treasurydirect.gov

...you'll get links to 2 Treasury Direct forms for establishing power of attorney.

One form establishes the POA entirely using TD's form. It requires that the person granting the POA be able to go to the bank and sign a document. It has information on it about what the POA is allowed to do, although it doesn't answer several needed questions, like "What about online access?" (And, yes, the dreaded certifying officer seal is needed on the form.)

The other form lets you establish the POA at TD by using an existing general Durable Power of Attorney document. So, in theory, it could be used to establish an atty-in-fact at TD for an incapacitated person who had previously drawn up the general durable POA document. However, the form also requires that the bank put their certifying seal *on the copy of the existing general Durable Power of Attorney* form, authenticating its validity. I'm *highly* dubious that most banks will be willing to do this.

In any case, read the documents, and that will help you plan your schedule for your visit with your mother (i.e. whether you are going to need to schedule an appt with her bank to get a certifying officer seal on some document), focus your questions to the customer service rep, plus give you some background information to help evaluate whether the customer service rep seems to know what they are talking about. (Reportedly TD has brought on a lot of temp workers recently to help with the phone call volume, and there have been some bogleheads threads where the customer service rep (presumably one of the temps?) seems to have given out highly dubious information when asked about a situation that isn't one of the questions they get asked every third call.

I haven't personally used either one of the above forms, so I can't say how it all ends up working out.
CAS - extremely helpful information, thank you. Relatively small town bank and mom was an employee there at one time...so that will likely help. I've never had to secure a POA so will be a good experience...I hope...for future knowledge as well. Will be for sure passing along info here so many may benefit from the upcoming experience.
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estrellamts
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by estrellamts »

MikeG62 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:00 am
estrellamts wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:54 pm …At 85...the computer presents challenges on occasion as most will imagine...and the setting up was done with both in the room. Hoping the POA streamlines this further. Will update when done. Thanks all.
I feel your pain. I was just in Arizona visiting my parents and while there helped my dad (who is 89, has terrible reading eyesight and very poor hearing) navigate setting up a brokerage account at Fidelity for my parents revocable living trust so I could assist him in purchasing Treasuries. Required a call to Fidelity during the process - it was a lot of fun authenticating my Dad and having him approve their talking to me on his behalf. We did get the account set up and my parents were able to grant me full account rights which took a week to come through. Once their CU account linkage is ready for online transfers, I will assist them with the process of acquiring Treasuries through the rights they granted me. Hopefully, the hard work is behind us.

Good luck sorting the issue with your moms account.

My FIL had an issue trying to change the bank account he originally linked he TD account to. Ended up needing to call TD and like others kept telling me the wait was hours and hours. I called myself "as soon as they opened" one morning and received a message the wait was 10 minutes. Immediately had him call and he got through with only a short wait. This was in the 2nd half of April - when they were similarly swamped with new account issues.
Seems patience is a virtue when working with financial dealings of aging parents. Technology thrown into the picture complicates...however since recently retired I'll just consider a sorta semi part time job. :happy
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Re: Locked Out of Mom's I Bond Account

Post by Northern Flicker »

estrellamts wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:15 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:55 pm
estrellamts wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:30 pm
Katietsu wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:52 pm I have done a 3 way call for this kind of thing. Could that work? I am not sure what you are doing is actually allowed.
I'm not sure what is or isn't allowed either so I believe I'll resort to having her call and spend the 2 hours waiting...and when they answer...she'll call me to be involved in the unlocking process. Wish there was a better way of handling communication with the admins of the site. I'll definitely be discussing in the same conversation on what's needed in setting up power of attorney. I'm guessing paperwork in the mail and weeks of waiting.
See if you can get POA forms from the web site without logging in. That process needs to be started ASAP.

My main goal is to get the account unlocked so she can buy for 2022. Not so much in a hurry to get the POA done...as the 2022 purchase will be the only thing pressing. While visiting her however we will definitely get that process of POA taken care of and send on it's way. Thanks for your reply.
The POA process should be going on in parallel so TD can be working on it while you try to unlock the account. What happens if it should turn out that you will need the POA to unlock the account?
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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