Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

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Parkinglotracer
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Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

Retired military / ex defense industry couple with no dental insurance. I just spent $1720 on replacing a broken cap with a cavity underneath. While I might have to break up with my excellent dentist (who takes no insurance ) of 25 years, I am looking for options for open market dental insurance that might have pre negotiated lower prices for in network dentists. Any suggestions? - thanks!
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

my girlfriend's father who served in the military has a dental plan for VA members, with met life. he likes it. i think it's like $68 or so a month. check it out;

https://www.metlife.com/vadip/

thanks for your service.
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VT03008
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by VT03008 »

We offer a membership plan for patients without benefits. He may offer something similar.

Without getting into medical advice, you should look at what your average annual dental needs have been over those 25 years. Self insuring makes a lot of sense for someone who only needs work here or there. If you need restorative work annually, paying for a benefits plan (it is not really insurance) often makes sense.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by FrugalInvestor »

You may be more successful at negotiating with your dentist. For a number of years I kept the same dentist I had when I worked (until we moved) and asked her if I stayed with her and paid at time of service if she would give me a similar rate to what my insurance was paying. She said "no problem" and we did that for a number of years. I worked diligently to get my teeth and gums in excellent shape during that time which was well worth the effort. For the last ten plus years I just go to the dentist for cleanings and exams only.
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KlangFool
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by KlangFool »

https://www.dentalplans.com/dental-savings-plans

OP,

Check out dental discount plan. It is a discount card for negotiated in-network pricing without the dental insurance. There should be several out there. Please search and shop around.

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chw
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by chw »

Don't know what state you live in, but perhaps check your states healthcare marketplace or ACA website for dental plan coverage. In my state (MA), there are several affordable options (around $50/mo pp) listed on the exchange website. These plans basically get you access to dental networks that limit the dentist on what they can charge for their services. I get 4 cleanings a years (on periodontal maint plan), and misc other services. There is an annual payment cap, but the plan easily pays for itself for me- if only for the cleanings at the provider network rate.

Many folks don't realize they can get dental insurance thru the exchange (un-subsidized), even after going on Medicare.
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Watty
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Watty »

One thing to keep in mind is that often dental insurance will have a maximum of only $2,000 or less for things other than routine exams, cleaning, and xrays. Something like an implant can cost several times that so even if you have insurance you can still be facing large dental bills.

When I started a Medicare advantage plan I could have also added a dental plan. The problem was that my dentist did not take it and all the dentists in my area who took it had horrible reviews.

I ended up staying with my dentist who has a "friends and family plan" where you pay a set price for the years cleaning, rountine exams, and x rays then you also get a discount on any additional work. My impression is that is is common for dentists to have plans like this.
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Parkinglotracer
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:11 pm my girlfriend's father who served in the military has a dental plan for VA members, with met life. he likes it. i think it's like $68 or so a month. check it out;

https://www.metlife.com/vadip/

thanks for your service.
Thank you
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Parkinglotracer
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

KlangFool wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:34 pm https://www.dentalplans.com/dental-savings-plans

OP,

Check out dental discount plan. It is a discount card for negotiated in-network pricing without the dental insurance. There should be several out there. Please search and shop around.

KlangFool
Thank you - I do need to shop around and will check this out. Thanks.
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Parkinglotracer
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

Watty wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:27 pm One thing to keep in mind is that often dental insurance will have a maximum of only $2,000 or less for things other than routine exams, cleaning, and xrays. Something like an implant can cost several times that so even if you have insurance you can still be facing large dental bills.

When I started a Medicare advantage plan I could have also added a dental plan. The problem was that my dentist did not take it and all the dentists in my area who took it had horrible reviews.

I ended up staying with my dentist who has a "friends and family plan" where you pay a set price for the years cleaning, rountine exams, and x rays then you also get a discount on any additional work. My impression is that is is common for dentists to have plans like this.
Thank you - my dentist will file insurance claims for me but has no Insurance plans or works with any plans. Wish he did.
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Parkinglotracer
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

chw wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:37 pm Don't know what state you live in, but perhaps check your states healthcare marketplace or ACA website for dental plan coverage. In my state (MA), there are several affordable options (around $50/mo pp) listed on the exchange website. These plans basically get you access to dental networks that limit the dentist on what they can charge for their services. I get 4 cleanings a years (on periodontal maint plan), and misc other services. There is an annual payment cap, but the plan easily pays for itself for me- if only for the cleanings at the provider network rate.

Many folks don't realize they can get dental insurance thru the exchange (un-subsidized), even after going on Medicare.
Thanks I’ll check out our exchange.
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Parkinglotracer
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:23 pm You may be more successful at negotiating with your dentist. For a number of years I kept the same dentist I had when I worked (until we moved) and asked her if I stayed with her and paid at time of service if she would give me a similar rate to what my insurance was paying. She said "no problem" and we did that for a number of years. I worked diligently to get my teeth and gums in excellent shape during that time which was well worth the effort. For the last ten plus years I just go to the dentist for cleanings and exams only.
I asked my dentist what he recommended - he said to save my money and pay cash. He is high end - gives a 5% discount for cash. That’s it.
EagertoLearnMore
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by EagertoLearnMore »

+1 dentalplans.com It's not insurance, but a discount plan that you buy annually. Ask your dentist which plans he/she accepts prior to joining. Our dentist was able to tell us to use a cheaper plan that covered just as much as a higher priced one. There was a selection of about 5-6 plans based on zip code. The savings are significant, but not as much as insurance. However, the savings more than covered the cost of the discount plan so definitely worth it and able to use regular dentist.
stoaX
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by stoaX »

Watty wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:27 pm One thing to keep in mind is that often dental insurance will have a maximum of only $2,000 or less for things other than routine exams, cleaning, and xrays. Something like an implant can cost several times that so even if you have insurance you can still be facing large dental bills.
In addition to the maximums, dental insurance plans often apply coinsurance to major services, reinforcing your observation that even with insurance you could be facing large dental bills.
59Gibson
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by 59Gibson »

Dentalplans is the way to go.
The insur. is too expensive and with limited max covg doesn't make sense. I'll self insure and get a discount for anything major.
FBN2014
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by FBN2014 »

chw wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:37 pm Don't know what state you live in, but perhaps check your states healthcare marketplace or ACA website for dental plan coverage. In my state (MA), there are several affordable options (around $50/mo pp) listed on the exchange website. These plans basically get you access to dental networks that limit the dentist on what they can charge for their services. I get 4 cleanings a years (on periodontal maint plan), and misc other services. There is an annual payment cap, but the plan easily pays for itself for me- if only for the cleanings at the provider network rate.

Many folks don't realize they can get dental insurance thru the exchange (un-subsidized), even after going on Medicare.
I thought you can't use the exchange when you are on Medicare. I am on regular Medicare with a supplement plan, not Medicare Advantage.
Last edited by FBN2014 on Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tj
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by tj »

If you are retired military, you have access to all the FEDVIP plans that federal employees get. The "high" options have very generous annual maxes, some unlimited.
Deblog
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Deblog »

My company offered a dental plan in retirement that we had to pay full amount for. Problem was they switched retirees to met life from delta dental. My husbands employer also only offered MetLife. My dentist only took delta and stopped taking MetLife a couple of years ago because they paid so little. I could submit to met life but out of network reimbursement was terrible. Higher deductible etc and with $1000 cap. It was not cheap either so better to bank that money and pay for my cleanings. Only time I would be ahead was if I needed to use the full 1000 AND dentist was in network.
WillRetire
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by WillRetire »

Check out MetLife TakeAlong plan, and Delta Dental.

https://www.metlife.com/insurance/denta ... ongdental/

https://www.deltadental.com/

Where we live, both plans cover procedures performed by dentists that are not in network. (We use Delta Dental's top plan in our area, called Premium.)

Neither plan is financially worthwhile during a calendar year when you have only preventative care (cleanings, XRays), nor in a year when you have just 1 or 2 fillings. I track these things and notice that some years we "win" (benefits exceeded premiums) and some years we "lose" (healthy teeth = just cleanings/xrays). If you need a crown and/or root canal, those tend to tip the balance in favor of having insurance.

We switched from MetLife TakeAlong to Delta Dental because MetLife can be difficult (arbitrary?) to deal with, but also because the best dentists in our area are in Delta's network but not MetLife's. That means better savings with Delta's plan. Before MetLife TakeAlong, we had a MetLife retiree group plan but it was unsubsidized and inferior coverage; MetLife's TakeAlong plan was actually better than their retiree group plan.

Example: Midway through 2022 a married couple with 1 preventive visit each so far, and 4 fillings, we saved more than we paid in premiums. This is due to in-network discounts and amounts that the plan paid. Sure, if we went out of network the plan would have saved us less.

If your preferred dentist and endodontist are not in the network for a given plan, then hard to say if either of these plans are worthwhile in every year.

If your dental care needs are low, you probably don't need dental insurance. If your dental care needs are high, dental insurance can save you money. More if your provider is in network.

Dental insurance premiums are tax deductible in the same way that other healthcare costs & premiums are.

Have not tried the discount plans offered by the dentist office.
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by jebmke »

59Gibson wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:50 am Dentalplans is the way to go.
The insur. is too expensive and with limited max covg doesn't make sense. I'll self insure and get a discount for anything major.
that is what we did. I have looked at so-called dental insurance several times. It never made sense financially to me.

We get a pretty good discount with our dentist. In a moderately high cost area, our latest cleaning+exam with X-rays was ~ $200 for two of us.

edit: another alternative, for those who might live close to a decent dental school is to see if they have clinics. At one point I used a university dental school. For some basics like cleaning etc the services are performed by advanced dental students under the supervision of faculty. More complicated procedures might be done by faculty with students observing or assisting.

Years ago I had to have wisdom teeth removed -- which turned out quite spectacularly; the faculty member did the procedure. The dental student observed for a while but I heard a thud which turned out to be the dental student passing out when he/she saw the amount of blood involved.
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Big Dog
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Big Dog »

Watty wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:27 pm One thing to keep in mind is that often dental insurance will have a maximum of only $2,000 or less for things other than routine exams, cleaning, and xrays. Something like an implant can cost several times that so even if you have insurance you can still be facing large dental bills.

When I started a Medicare advantage plan I could have also added a dental plan. The problem was that my dentist did not take it and all the dentists in my area who took it had horrible reviews.

I ended up staying with my dentist who has a "friends and family plan" where you pay a set price for the years cleaning, rountine exams, and x rays then you also get a discount on any additional work. My impression is that is is common for dentists to have plans like this.
Individual plans typically have a lower annual Max, say $1250 or $1500. Moreover, Major work is capped at 50% of UCR (or negotiated rates). Thus, OP, the "cap" may have only been covered at a few hundred dollars (perhaps $500 or $750?), leaving you with at least half to the billed amount $ for a copay. So, when you look to dental insurance plans, you need to account for teh annual Max and out-of-pocket expenses.

Unless you find a dentist that you really like in a network plan, teh value of retiree dental insurance is extremely limited. In essence, your monthly premium basically covers 2 cleanings, annual exam, basic x-rays and maybe 1 cavity per year, i.e., just prepaid preventive service plan. After a couple of years, you'll likely conclude that self-insurance makes more sense for you. Personally, I'd stick with a dentist of 25+ years. Ask him/her if they would consider a cash pay discount.
Last edited by Big Dog on Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tooth
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Tooth »

Check out https://www.benefeds.com/
This is for federal employees, military retirees etc. I use it.
tj
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by tj »

Tooth wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:18 am Check out https://www.benefeds.com/
This is for federal employees, military retirees etc. I use it.

To me there is no reason not to use benefeds for OP. The individual plans are no cheaper.
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Parkinglotracer
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

tj wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:06 pm
Tooth wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:18 am Check out https://www.benefeds.com/
This is for federal employees, military retirees etc. I use it.

To me there is no reason not to use benefeds for OP. The individual plans are no cheaper.
Thanks - I will have to wait until next open season but will check it out.
abner kravitz
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by abner kravitz »

I use CIGNA. It’s pretty widely accepted. I pay $38 a month. The “insurance” aspect is pretty meaningless with the tiny cap, but the negotiated discounts more than make up for the premiums in my case anyway. I use a lot of dental services.
bberris
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by bberris »

Dental insurance, which just barely deserves to be called that, does not cover pre-existing conditions.
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yatesd
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by yatesd »

bberris wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:28 pm Dental insurance, which just barely deserves to be called that, does not cover pre-existing conditions.
I agree. Almost all dental insurance today is not actual insurance. It doesn’t protect you against catastrophes. Most policies today have a $1,5000 limit. I would put $1,500 in the bank and you have essentially “self insured”.
tj
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by tj »

yatesd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:35 pm
bberris wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:28 pm Dental insurance, which just barely deserves to be called that, does not cover pre-existing conditions.
I agree. Almost all dental insurance today is not actual insurance. It doesn’t protect you against catastrophes. Most policies today have a $1,5000 limit. I would put $1,500 in the bank and you have essentially “self insured”.
Everyone keeps saying that, but it doesn't apply to OP who can get a FEDVIP plan at benefeds.com which have no annual limit on benefits.
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Cubs Fan »

DH and DW ages 78 and 72 go to a dental hygiene college in the East Valley of Phoenix, AZ. They provide free total mouth x rays, an exam from a dentist and a complete dental cleaning. If they find any cavities or other dental procedures, they refer us to the AZ School of Dentistry. Everything done at the dental hygiene college if free, and the fees at the AZ School of Dentistry are extremely low. We are extremely pleased with the treatment that we received. All treatments are provided by third and fourth year dental students under the supervision of a licensed dentist professor.
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chw
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by chw »

FBN2014 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:04 am
chw wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:37 pm Don't know what state you live in, but perhaps check your states healthcare marketplace or ACA website for dental plan coverage. In my state (MA), there are several affordable options (around $50/mo pp) listed on the exchange website. These plans basically get you access to dental networks that limit the dentist on what they can charge for their services. I get 4 cleanings a years (on periodontal maint plan), and misc other services. There is an annual payment cap, but the plan easily pays for itself for me- if only for the cleanings at the provider network rate.

Many folks don't realize they can get dental insurance thru the exchange (un-subsidized), even after going on Medicare.
I thought you can't use the exchange when you are on Medicare. I am on regular Medicare with a supplement plan, not Medicare Advantage.
In our state (MA) access to the dental plans on the exchanges is allowed. There is no subsidy/credit- subscribers pay the insurer's rate as shown on the exchange website. The dental plans are available without having to subscribe to a health plan. My wife (who is on Medicare) is on such a plan currently, as are a few of our friends that also didn't know about the availability of dental coverage for Medicare eligible patients.
WillRetire
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by WillRetire »

Great information, chw! Thank you!
miamivice
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by miamivice »

My thought would be, whether you like the prices or not, teeth are important and worth spending money on.
kada
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by kada »

IMO a 25 year relationship with a healthcare provider is not an area to let finances dictate things. If bedside manner, quality of work is declining then yes, but that is a reasonable fee if the facility and people are nice, communicate well, do good work etc.
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by Outer Marker »

My experience with dental plans is that the caps on fees and services make them close to useless - and it's simply "pre-paying" the cost of service, plus a markup to the insurance middle man. I would not carry dental insurance if not a free fringe benefit. You're likely better off paying cash and trying to negotiate a discount from your provider. Yes, dental procedures can be costly, but you're unlikely to have a life-altering medical expense like a $250,000 heart procedure or $1M cancer treatment. As a general rule, self-insure anything you can afford to absorb yourself. Insurance companies are in business to make money and the odds are rigged to always favor the house.
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FreddieFIRE
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by FreddieFIRE »

Outer Marker wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:22 am My experience with dental plans is that the caps on fees and services make them close to useless - and it's simply "pre-paying" the cost of service, plus a markup to the insurance middle man. I would not carry dental insurance if not a free fringe benefit. You're likely better off paying cash and trying to negotiate a discount from your provider.
When I left Megacorp, I "lost" my dental coverage. It was crappy coverage and I would have paid about $40 a month to keep it. I asked my dental office for their list prices for cleanings and xrays. I then priced Blue Cross Blue Shield individual coverage that included those. It turned out that buying the insurance would save me some money versus paying out of pocket, so I went that way. It cost about $35 a month. It did include some coverage for fillings after a waiting period, but I never used that. I self insure for crowns, but with insurance you'll at least benefit from contracted rates if they run it through the insurance.
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RustyShackleford
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by RustyShackleford »

I'm eligible for dental insurance as an alumnus of the university where I did my graduate work. You can sign up for it by months. I signed up for it, had a broken crown fixed and some other stuff, and then cancelled it. Paid a few hundred it premiums and saved far more. The only restriction is that I have to wait 12 months before signing up again.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Get an oral B cross action toothbrush. It’s really good for getting to your gums and cleaning your teeth thoroughly. Really saved me during the pandemic.
MikeG62
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Re: Retired w/ no dental insurance - ideas?

Post by MikeG62 »

In our 7th year of retirement. We have self-insured for dental the whole time. Thankfully, we've not had any major dental issues.

The problem I've found is that while we could purchase dental insurance, our dentist does not participate in the network of the one where the premiums are reasonable. For good reason, they don't reimburse well. So, while we could change dentists, we have some pause in doing so over worries about the quality of the dentists who are willing to accept the low network reimbursement rates of those insurers. We have been with our dentist for two decades and know that he knows what he is doing. Is he expensive? Yep he is. But that cost comes with a comfort level we have not been willing to walk away from to save $500 or $1,000 or a few grand.
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