Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

A car with 60,000 files on it is either a lawyer’s or an accountant’s car, I’m guessing. I wouldn’t buy it either.
quantAndHold
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by quantAndHold »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:41 am 2) Why are you considering some ginormous SUV for her? The more morons can fit in a car, the higher the danger because of distractions. If you have to get a car, make it a 2 seater. Miata. Honda CR-Z. Subaru BRZ.
I agree that the ginormous SUV is unnecessary, unless she plays the strong bass or something. But insuring a teen driver is expensive, and insuring a teen driver driving a 2-seater will be crazy expensive. Also, it’s probably not a good idea to get a kid a car with that much zoom zoom as their first car. Our kids got an old Volvo wagon, and once they wrecked that, they got a VW Golf. At least when she totaled the Volvo, she wasn’t going very fast.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
an_asker
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by an_asker »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:11 pm A car with 60,000 files on it is either a lawyer’s or an accountant’s car, I’m guessing. I wouldn’t buy it either.
HAHAHA!!!

What about one with 60,000 flies? ;-)
OnTrack2020
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by OnTrack2020 »

rcmx wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:38 pm Hello,

As we are all aware the car market is a bit upside down at the moment.

I am currently looking for a safe and reliable vehicle for my teenage daughter at the moment..and I am frankly astonished at what is and is not out there on the market. The prices are out of this world.

Now lets say I am finding a 6 year old vehicle with 60,000 files on it (example Mazda CX-5). This car is being sold by Carvana and Carmax for approx. $20k + tax = $22,000 drive out. And its still a friggin 6 year old car.

That said, a dealer here is selling the Mazda CX-30 (smaller brethren to CX-5) for $27,000 + Fee + Tax= $30,000 drive out. So, for $8,000 more, you get a new car, newer safety feature, potentially lower interest rate it being a new car, warranty, etc, etc.

I hate to spend this kind of money on a car, but I'm not sure where to go at this point.

Aside from this, the used market is fraught with dodgy rebuilt titles and other risky propositions that seem to present themselves more readily when markets like these emerge.

I'm really just looking to find a sane decision in all of this. :confused

Any advice?

--rcmx
We have found a few new cars that the dealer was trying to clear off their lot--but that was before all the insanity started. The latest vehicle we purchased was back in early/mid 2021 which was a new 2020 Honda Fit with the Smart Sensing Technology. We paid around $19k for the vehicle for our daughter to drive. She couldn't just drive one of our larger vehicles because she's not very tall. The vehicle met her needs (and ours). The car currently has less than 5k miles on it.

Once the child gets to be a certain age, mom and dad don't necessarily want to chauffer him/her around anymore. I would love if we had access to more transportation options, but for people living in more rural communities, those options don't always exist. If a teenager could ride a scooter to school for 5 miles in snow, wind, and rain, that would be something; however, it isn't an option as we don't have the infrastructure for scooters on two-lane highways. Uber and Lyft aren't options either. Riding a bicycle isn't an option. Catching a ride with someone isn't an option either.

The other thing about getting a used vehicle with fairly high mileage is, how much time do you have to sit in a dealership or local mechanic for repair work? We also bought one of our sons a used pickup for $4k. It did the job for about 4 years. But we were always at the mechanic for something--a/c didn't work (several trips to mechanic), smoke blowing out from around the glove compartment, the list went on and on, etc. If the answer is that you really don't have much time, then lean toward purchasing a newer vehicle.
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galawdawg
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by galawdawg »

mega317 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:29 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:02 pm
mega317 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:47 pm In my state no morons are allowed in a new driver's car no matter how big it is; I don't know how widespread that restriction is.
Really?? :shock:

What state is that?
CA

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/ ... instructor.

To be clear one moron is allowed—the driver.

Looks like in Georgia it’s only immediate family members for 6 months.
:oops: Perhaps you need to look at your auto correct settings...

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:42 pm In my state (MA), morons at least 18 are allowed...
Looks like your auto correct needs some attention as well! :o
JDave
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by JDave »

The answer is always Corolla, which is one of the top safety picks as well. Kia and Hyundai have sub-par reliability. They had to offer those long warranties or no one would buy them.
ScubaHogg
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by ScubaHogg »

quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:03 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:05 pm
sureshoe wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:13 pm Got to love it when people say "I want to do something, any advice on how" and a bunch of people not in their situation say "don't do it."
I know right? And their evidence that it doesn’t need to be done is that they didn’t need a car when they lived in NYC 50 years ago so surely no one needs one today.

Teenagers having cars is a pretty normal thing. The OP seems to have already made that decision, let’s focus on helping with the actual question.
Teenagers having their own $30k cars is nowhere near a normal thing, except in a small number of uber expensive zip codes. Most teens either borrow from their parents, or drive something that’s more at the jalopy end of the scale. I’m looking for a car for myself right now, and I’m finding perfectly good, low mileage cars, certainly better than what my kids or their friends drove, from private parties for $8-10k. They just happen to be unpopular models.

As far as whether or not a 16 year old *needs* a car, how did the kid get around as a 15 year old? I can see an argument if the parent was their chief chauffeur and wants to get out of that duty, but whether or not the kid actually needs a car right away, especially given the reality of the car market right now, is certainly a question that OP should consider.
Where did i say they should get a $30K car? Please show me

I was obviously referring to the comments saying the teen shouldn’t get a car at all and should, I don’t know, drive an electric scooter around town or something.

As for what they did at 15 I’d say a few things:

- parents get sick of being a chauffeur
- children have more and more outside activities and responsibilities every year they get older. The 15/16 is a good proxy for when teens start getting more regular employment, when they enter high school with its varied activities (sports, clubs), when they really expand their social networks, etc
- Also 16 is when teens are generally allowed to drive alone. It might have been nice to have them driving at 15, but it wasn’t legal
- also it’s the OPs kid and they are asking advice about which car, not whether they should get a car at all. So why not stop parenting for them and help with the question at hand. For example you state you are finding cars in the 8-10K range. Why not reference the OP to those cars and/or sites?
“Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.” - Milton Friedman
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

DoubleComma wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:11 am I wouldn’t have a car payment for myself, let alone for my teenager.

We did buy our 16 y/o a car, it provides a lot of benefit for us simple in helping shuffle our other kids around to their obligations.

That car was a $7k 2014 Sedan with 130k miles. It’s perfect for a kid. Plenty of safety features, old enough I don’t worry about the little bumps it will inevitably get. Had hoped to pay closer to $5k, but Covid had already impacted used prices when we bought it a year ago.

Even being a 8 y/o $7k car, insurance is insanely expensive, I couldn’t imagine insuring a new car for a teenager…let alone one with a loan and required full coverage. That could be more than the loan payment.
Things are very different lately. My daughter’s car that I bought her for $22,000, brand new, when she was 16 in 2014 was just traded in for a new SUV. What was her 2014 car that I bought her brand new worth last month? $19,000- and that was as a trade-in. It had almost 100,000 miles on it and was crashed 3 times.

2022 is unlike any other year in auto buying history.
invest4
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by invest4 »

bob60014 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:03 pm Teenager? Nothing over $5k or the lowest cost vehicle, as it's likely it will be totaled by the time they're 20.
+1 in regard to the spirit of this. YMMV.
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Watty
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Watty »

invest4 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:34 am
bob60014 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:03 pm Teenager? Nothing over $5k or the lowest cost vehicle, as it's likely it will be totaled by the time they're 20.
+1 in regard to the spirit of this. YMMV.
A good case can be made that if you are sure your teenager is going to be in a car accident that totals a car then buying them a relatively expensive car with all the latest safety features would be money that was well spent since it would help the odds that they would avoid or survive the accident unhurt.

Both are extreme options so what the best option is likely somewhere in between.

When my son was a teenage part of the reason that we let him have my wife's 10 year old Subaru Outback was that we felt it safe enough that if he got hurt in an accident we would not feel bad that we had let him drive in an unsafe beater.
quantAndHold
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by quantAndHold »

ScubaHogg wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:05 am
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:03 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:05 pm
sureshoe wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:13 pm Got to love it when people say "I want to do something, any advice on how" and a bunch of people not in their situation say "don't do it."
I know right? And their evidence that it doesn’t need to be done is that they didn’t need a car when they lived in NYC 50 years ago so surely no one needs one today.

Teenagers having cars is a pretty normal thing. The OP seems to have already made that decision, let’s focus on helping with the actual question.
Teenagers having their own $30k cars is nowhere near a normal thing, except in a small number of uber expensive zip codes. Most teens either borrow from their parents, or drive something that’s more at the jalopy end of the scale. I’m looking for a car for myself right now, and I’m finding perfectly good, low mileage cars, certainly better than what my kids or their friends drove, from private parties for $8-10k. They just happen to be unpopular models.

As far as whether or not a 16 year old *needs* a car, how did the kid get around as a 15 year old? I can see an argument if the parent was their chief chauffeur and wants to get out of that duty, but whether or not the kid actually needs a car right away, especially given the reality of the car market right now, is certainly a question that OP should consider.
Where did i say they should get a $30K car? Please show me

I was obviously referring to the comments saying the teen shouldn’t get a car at all and should, I don’t know, drive an electric scooter around town or something.

As for what they did at 15 I’d say a few things:

- parents get sick of being a chauffeur
- children have more and more outside activities and responsibilities every year they get older. The 15/16 is a good proxy for when teens start getting more regular employment, when they enter high school with its varied activities (sports, clubs), when they really expand their social networks, etc
- Also 16 is when teens are generally allowed to drive alone. It might have been nice to have them driving at 15, but it wasn’t legal
- also it’s the OPs kid and they are asking advice about which car, not whether they should get a car at all. So why not stop parenting for them and help with the question at hand. For example you state you are finding cars in the 8-10K range. Why not reference the OP to those cars and/or sites?
In the original post, OP said they were considering a $30k car.

You’re assuming that everyone is just like you, and chose a place to live in some car dependent suburb, and the kids can’t do anything without mommy and daddy driving them everywhere. OP has not yet confirmed that this is the case for them.

As far as $8-10k cars…Craigslist. Auto Trader. The cars are older and less popular models than OP is considering, and may have some cosmetic dings, but still lower mileage, reliable cars. The kids are going to destroy them anyway, so let them learn to drive on something that isn’t $30k out the door.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
DoubleComma
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by DoubleComma »

Wanderingwheelz wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:21 am
DoubleComma wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:11 am I wouldn’t have a car payment for myself, let alone for my teenager.

We did buy our 16 y/o a car, it provides a lot of benefit for us simple in helping shuffle our other kids around to their obligations.

That car was a $7k 2014 Sedan with 130k miles. It’s perfect for a kid. Plenty of safety features, old enough I don’t worry about the little bumps it will inevitably get. Had hoped to pay closer to $5k, but Covid had already impacted used prices when we bought it a year ago.

Even being a 8 y/o $7k car, insurance is insanely expensive, I couldn’t imagine insuring a new car for a teenager…let alone one with a loan and required full coverage. That could be more than the loan payment.
Things are very different lately. My daughter’s car that I bought her for $22,000, brand new, when she was 16 in 2014 was just traded in for a new SUV. What was her 2014 car that I bought her brand new worth last month? $19,000- and that was as a trade-in. It had almost 100,000 miles on it and was crashed 3 times.

2022 is unlike any other year in auto buying history.
Is today that different than last fall? We purchased our teens car in Nov 2021, it was a super clean Nissan Altima 3.5L S with full service records and clean car fax.
invest4
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by invest4 »

Watty wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:51 am
invest4 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:34 am
bob60014 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:03 pm Teenager? Nothing over $5k or the lowest cost vehicle, as it's likely it will be totaled by the time they're 20.
+1 in regard to the spirit of this. YMMV.
A good case can be made that if you are sure your teenager is going to be in a car accident that totals a car then buying them a relatively expensive car with all the latest safety features would be money that was well spent since it would help the odds that they would avoid or survive the accident unhurt.

Both are extreme options so what the best option is likely somewhere in between.

When my son was a teenage part of the reason that we let him have my wife's 10 year old Subaru Outback was that we felt it safe enough that if he got hurt in an accident we would not feel bad that we had let him drive in an unsafe beater.
It is my very strong belief that everyone is putting their child in a car that is reasonably safe while managing the various constraints and trade-offs that come with such a purchase.

Like most things, people have varying opinions about what is “safe enough”…much less what constitutes a “beater”.

More broadly, the facts are that younger drivers have more accidents among all age groups except the 65+ folks (there is a reason you don’t get a premium break until 25).

This is one of many considerations, along with safety, my desire to teach our children to live beneath their means, begin paying for maintenance and insurance at 19 and of course the financial that everyone has are factors that influence my purchasing decision.
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HomerJ
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by HomerJ »

Watty wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:51 am
invest4 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:34 am
bob60014 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:03 pm Teenager? Nothing over $5k or the lowest cost vehicle, as it's likely it will be totaled by the time they're 20.
+1 in regard to the spirit of this. YMMV.
A good case can be made that if you are sure your teenager is going to be in a car accident that totals a car then buying them a relatively expensive car with all the latest safety features would be money that was well spent since it would help the odds that they would avoid or survive the accident unhurt.

Both are extreme options so what the best option is likely somewhere in between.

When my son was a teenage part of the reason that we let him have my wife's 10 year old Subaru Outback was that we felt it safe enough that if he got hurt in an accident we would not feel bad that we had let him drive in an unsafe beater.
Meh, high school kids spend very little time on the highway going 75. Most accidents are fender-benders on side-streets when they are not paying attention.

On the other hand, college kids do a lot of highway driving.

I do like your 10-year old Subaru Outback compromise... :)
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
ScubaHogg
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by ScubaHogg »

quantAndHold wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:03 am
ScubaHogg wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:05 am
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:03 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:05 pm
sureshoe wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:13 pm Got to love it when people say "I want to do something, any advice on how" and a bunch of people not in their situation say "don't do it."
I know right? And their evidence that it doesn’t need to be done is that they didn’t need a car when they lived in NYC 50 years ago so surely no one needs one today.

Teenagers having cars is a pretty normal thing. The OP seems to have already made that decision, let’s focus on helping with the actual question.
Teenagers having their own $30k cars is nowhere near a normal thing, except in a small number of uber expensive zip codes. Most teens either borrow from their parents, or drive something that’s more at the jalopy end of the scale. I’m looking for a car for myself right now, and I’m finding perfectly good, low mileage cars, certainly better than what my kids or their friends drove, from private parties for $8-10k. They just happen to be unpopular models.

As far as whether or not a 16 year old *needs* a car, how did the kid get around as a 15 year old? I can see an argument if the parent was their chief chauffeur and wants to get out of that duty, but whether or not the kid actually needs a car right away, especially given the reality of the car market right now, is certainly a question that OP should consider.
Where did i say they should get a $30K car? Please show me

I was obviously referring to the comments saying the teen shouldn’t get a car at all and should, I don’t know, drive an electric scooter around town or something.

As for what they did at 15 I’d say a few things:

- parents get sick of being a chauffeur
- children have more and more outside activities and responsibilities every year they get older. The 15/16 is a good proxy for when teens start getting more regular employment, when they enter high school with its varied activities (sports, clubs), when they really expand their social networks, etc
- Also 16 is when teens are generally allowed to drive alone. It might have been nice to have them driving at 15, but it wasn’t legal
- also it’s the OPs kid and they are asking advice about which car, not whether they should get a car at all. So why not stop parenting for them and help with the question at hand. For example you state you are finding cars in the 8-10K range. Why not reference the OP to those cars and/or sites?
In the original post, OP said they were considering a $30k car.

You’re assuming that everyone is just like you, and chose a place to live in some car dependent suburb, and the kids can’t do anything without mommy and daddy driving them everywhere. OP has not yet confirmed that this is the case for them.
But the OP did confirm they want to get a car for their teenager. What they haven’t done, and shouldn’t need to, is justify that decision.
“Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.” - Milton Friedman
freckles01
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by freckles01 »

ScubaHogg wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:05 pm
sureshoe wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:13 pm Got to love it when people say "I want to do something, any advice on how" and a bunch of people not in their situation say "don't do it."
I know right? And their evidence that it doesn’t need to be done is that they didn’t need a car when they lived in NYC 50 years ago so surely no one needs one today.

Teenagers having cars is a pretty normal thing. The OP seems to have already made that decision, let’s focus on helping with the actual question.
Actually, young adults (teens to 20's+) nowadays have been choosing NOT to own a car. They grew up with crowdsourcing and crowdsharing apps since childhood.

When I was a teenager, having a car was pretty normal and everyone got their DL on/near their 16th bday, promptly filled their car with friends to celebrate and experience their first (thankfully very very minor) fender bender :oops:

If OP's teenager can get around without their own 24/7 exclusive private car, they can probably share or use one of many apps for car, scooter, bicycle or possible buy their own ebike/escooter, supplement as needed and do just fine.

Since OP mentioned high used car prices, finances are an issue so implementing the above options gives time for OP and daughter to save and wait until prices come down. Plus the increased gas prices are not helping either.

I do own a car but bike and walk more. Increasing gas prices have not affected me at all and not having to car commute (price/gas/maintenance- avg 10k/year for a small car) has allowed me to reach FI sooner plus benefited me physically/mentally.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

DoubleComma wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:25 am
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:21 am
DoubleComma wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:11 am I wouldn’t have a car payment for myself, let alone for my teenager.

We did buy our 16 y/o a car, it provides a lot of benefit for us simple in helping shuffle our other kids around to their obligations.

That car was a $7k 2014 Sedan with 130k miles. It’s perfect for a kid. Plenty of safety features, old enough I don’t worry about the little bumps it will inevitably get. Had hoped to pay closer to $5k, but Covid had already impacted used prices when we bought it a year ago.

Even being a 8 y/o $7k car, insurance is insanely expensive, I couldn’t imagine insuring a new car for a teenager…let alone one with a loan and required full coverage. That could be more than the loan payment.
Things are very different lately. My daughter’s car that I bought her for $22,000, brand new, when she was 16 in 2014 was just traded in for a new SUV. What was her 2014 car that I bought her brand new worth last month? $19,000- and that was as a trade-in. It had almost 100,000 miles on it and was crashed 3 times.

2022 is unlike any other year in auto buying history.
Is today that different than last fall? We purchased our teens car in Nov 2021, it was a super clean Nissan Altima 3.5L S with full service records and clean car fax.
Yes, in my experience the recent car buying/trade-in situation is different now than it was almost a year ago. One example: My dad sold an SUV to Carmax last month for 15% more than Car Max was willing to buy it for last year. $2,900 isn’t a huge sum, but he got to drive it for an extra year and it’s not a bad deal to have been paid nearly $3,000 to do it.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
twh
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by twh »

rcmx wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:38 pm Hello,

As we are all aware the car market is a bit upside down at the moment.

I am currently looking for a safe and reliable vehicle for my teenage daughter at the moment..and I am frankly astonished at what is and is not out there on the market. The prices are out of this world.

Now lets say I am finding a 6 year old vehicle with 60,000 files on it (example Mazda CX-5). This car is being sold by Carvana and Carmax for approx. $20k + tax = $22,000 drive out. And its still a friggin 6 year old car.

That said, a dealer here is selling the Mazda CX-30 (smaller brethren to CX-5) for $27,000 + Fee + Tax= $30,000 drive out. So, for $8,000 more, you get a new car, newer safety feature, potentially lower interest rate it being a new car, warranty, etc, etc.

I hate to spend this kind of money on a car, but I'm not sure where to go at this point.

Aside from this, the used market is fraught with dodgy rebuilt titles and other risky propositions that seem to present themselves more readily when markets like these emerge.

I'm really just looking to find a sane decision in all of this. :confused

Any advice?

--rcmx
My 30+ year old daughter is still driving her Mazda bought new when she was in high school. Just get the new CX-30 with the safety features.
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HomerJ
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by HomerJ »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:02 pm Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

An average new car today costs $47,000. Average annual salary in the US is $56,000.

In 1972, an average new car cost $3500. Average annual salary was $11,120.

So yes, it was way easier to afford a new car back then.
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MikeWillRetire
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by MikeWillRetire »

mega317 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:44 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:48 am Seems to me that a lot of teenagers these days not only have no need, but not even a ton of interest in driving.
Agree and I will never understand it. I was so crazy excited to drive. Although I didn't have Uber, scooters, ebikes, etc. Spread out suburb, literally nothing walkable including almost all friends houses.
I've thought about this too. My two sons are 24 and 26, and neither of them has ever had a car. And one of them lives in L.A.!
The younger generation is just not as bored as my generation was, and they have alternate transportation. They have the internet, video games, cable TV, cell phones, uber, scooters, etc. My generation didn't have any of that, so we wanted a car to help relieve the boredom of living in suburbia as a teenager. That's my take on it.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by MMiroir »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:43 pm An average new car today costs $47,000. Average annual salary in the US is $56,000.

In 1972, an average new car cost $3500. Average annual salary was $11,120.

So yes, it was way easier to afford a new car back then.
New cars also fell apart very quicky back then as the average age of a car in operation was less than six years on the road compared to more than 12 years today.

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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by MikeWillRetire »

MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:47 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:43 pm An average new car today costs $47,000. Average annual salary in the US is $56,000.

In 1972, an average new car cost $3500. Average annual salary was $11,120.

So yes, it was way easier to afford a new car back then.
New cars also fell apart very quicky back then as the average age of a car in operation was less than six years on the road compared to more than 12 years today.

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This. My parents never got 100k miles out of a car. My first car was a 1985 Chevy Cavalier, and I considered it a miracle that I got 150k miles out of it. My next car was a 1992 Camry and I got 250k out of it.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by srt7 »

MikeWillRetire wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:47 pm
mega317 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:44 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:48 am Seems to me that a lot of teenagers these days not only have no need, but not even a ton of interest in driving.
Agree and I will never understand it. I was so crazy excited to drive. Although I didn't have Uber, scooters, ebikes, etc. Spread out suburb, literally nothing walkable including almost all friends houses.
I've thought about this too. My two sons are 24 and 26, and neither of them has ever had a car. And one of them lives in L.A.!
The younger generation is just not as bored as my generation was, and they have alternate transportation. They have the internet, video games, cable TV, cell phones, uber, scooters, etc. My generation didn't have any of that, so we wanted a car to help relieve the boredom of living in suburbia as a teenager. That's my take on it.
Agreed. My teenager tells me it's much more challenging and fun to drive a car in a game (Forza etc.) than it is in real life (he's working on putting in the hours for permit). I couldn't believe my ears! At his age I would be ecstatic to be behind the wheel of a REAL sedan. Talk about generational gap issues ... Ha!
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by gerntz »

Watty wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:54 pm
I have never owned one but if I was getting a new car for a teenager I would take a hard look at Hyundai and Kia since they come with a five year full warranty(and loner power train) that would likely get her most of the way through college. If she has a car problem while she is away from home at college then just being able to drop the car off at the dealership could work out well.
[/quote]

Two years ago bought GD a new Kia Soul S, S for the latest & extra safety features. We wanted her as safe as possible - which just isn't possible on older cars - & she needed to drive a good amount between both her parents working and her number of school activities after & off hours. Also had in mind her going off the college & likely need for hauling space - which Souls have. The latter issue is now coming into play as she'll be 3 hours from home in college in two months.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Bones212 »

My name is Steven Lang. I co-developed a study called the Long-Term Quality Index. I have written thousands of articles about used cars and everything associated with them, and I also have owned a car dealership for the last 19 years along with a popular car buying service on Facebook.

Long story short, I would wait at least until your child is in their last semester of their senior year of high school. I have two young adults. One is 19 and likes having his own vehicle. The other will be 22 and avoids driving like the plague.

The 19 year old is comfortable driving anything. Since I have a dealership, his rides have ranged from a 2002 Camry, to a 2007 Ford Five Hundred, to a 2016 Prius which I got for him before the run-up in used car prices.

If your daughter is a very comfortable and conscientious driving I would opt for a full-sized vehicle. A 2005 to 2007 Five Hundred/Montego or a 2008/2009 Taurus/Sable offers excellent crash safety, and an easy-to-drive experience (big mirrors and you can easily see all corners). Do not get the CVT. Get a 5-speed automatic. Look for an older owner who preferably had it garage kept and maintained at a dealership. A well-kept one will likely be around $6,000 to $8,000.

One other thing. Unless your daughter commutes to college she won't need a car. Everything is walkable and shuttles take students wherever they need to go on the rare chance they need to go off-campus. Everything my son drove, we sold. I keep him on a separate insurance policy during the summertime although technically since I employ him part-time, he can go on my fleet insurance.

Not insuring your kids when they don't need it is a big money saver, and so is buying a vehicle that is unpopular but reliable when they do. All the best!
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by stoptothink »

HomerJ wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:02 pm Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
Even with Del Taco paying $19/hr around here, how is a high school kid going to afford to buy a new car today? This is obviously a topic of discussion with nuance, depending on your financial situation and the actual need for a car (which definitely varies).
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

HomerJ wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:02 pm Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
You were better heeled than I was.

My first car was a 1963 AMC American Rambler 330. I paid $400 for it. Had AC, I was in heaven.

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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by rockstar »

Your kid is very likely to damage it. I took off both side mirrors of my parent's car when I started driving. Instead of getting me a vehicle, which they couldn't afford. They let me use their vehicle until I got a job, where I could pay for my own.

The reality is that this vehicle is going to get beat up. One of my significant other's friends got a car as a teenager and never changed the oil. Another one crashed into a light pole. There is a reason why your car insurance is going to spike when you add them.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:48 am
HomerJ wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:02 pm Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
Even with Del Taco paying $19/hr around here, how is a high school kid going to afford to buy a new car today? This is obviously a topic of discussion with nuance, depending on your financial situation and the actual need for a car (which definitely varies).
Many things in life are underpinned by financial situations. Some large, some small. A college education, large. A new car, small.

A question for those who believe their children need to have skin in the game: if it is possible to pay a significant portion of the costs of college, why wouldn't it be possible to pay for a car?

It really boils down to what other bills are being paid by the student.

Broken Man 199
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Northern Flicker »

No way I would outfit a teenager with a peppy car like say a Mazda 3 or Subaru Impreza. As far as I know, the safety ratings of cars do not take into account whether the car encourages a spirited driving style.

My teenage son and I shared a car, and we used public transit or other alternatives when the other had use of the car.
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by MMiroir »

Northern Flicker wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:39 pm No way I would outfit a teenager with a peppy car like say a Mazda 3 or Subaru Impreza. As far as I know, the safety ratings of cars do not take into account whether the car encourages a spirited driving style.

My teenage son and I shared a car, and each of us used public transit or other alternatives when the other had use of the car.
My father outfitted me with a V-8 Mustang. When the original 2-bbl 289 proved weak, he bought a rusty Cougar with a built 302, and we did an engine swap over the weekend. After that, it was one of the peppiest cars in the high school. I did my part by avoiding tickets and accidents.

I love my dad for that.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by stoptothink »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:48 am
HomerJ wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:02 pm Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
Even with Del Taco paying $19/hr around here, how is a high school kid going to afford to buy a new car today? This is obviously a topic of discussion with nuance, depending on your financial situation and the actual need for a car (which definitely varies).
Many things in life are underpinned by financial situations. Some large, some small. A college education, large. A new car, small.

A question for those who believe their children need to have skin in the game: if it is possible to pay a significant portion of the costs of college, why wouldn't it be possible to pay for a car?

It really boils down to what other bills are being paid by the student.

Broken Man 199
:confused You said it is likely that your grandkids will "buy their own new cars" in high school. There are about a handful of cars (at least right now) that can be purchased new for <$25k OTD. Math is math, that's a large car payment for a high school student to handle, even if parents cover absolutely every other cost in their life.

Buying a new car completely by yourself as a high school student is quite a bit different than paying for a portion of college costs, especially if you are going to a cheap university (like I am surrounded by here in Utah).
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:19 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:48 am
HomerJ wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:02 pm Our three daughters each had a brand new vehicle as their first cars. They all worked during HS and college, once they went to college, two bought their cars. Then, when the third daughter graduated from her college she bought her first vehicle.

The daughters paid for everything except insurance. I helped cover that until they all graduated from college.

We just don't buy used cars, last used one we bought was in 1972.

The daughters also buy only new vehicles, but normally keep them even longer than DW and I keep our cars.

When the grandkids start driving, I imagine they will have jobs in HS and college, and will probably buy new cars themselves. The parents and grandparents certainly don't want them driving a POS.

In our locale, cars are pretty much required if you are going to school and working as well. The grandkids parents work at sites that don't offer opportunities to rideshare, use a bus, so the family vehicles are tied up and not available for grandkids to use.

Heck, I had a car in HS that I paid for myself. We lived out in the sticks and had to drive pretty much everywhere.

Good luck, OP! Some areas of the country simply require having a vehicle to get around. The area where I grew up and the area where our daughters grew up (and all of us still live) requires a vehicle.

You know your particular needs best, so get what you need.

Broken Man 1999
Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
Even with Del Taco paying $19/hr around here, how is a high school kid going to afford to buy a new car today? This is obviously a topic of discussion with nuance, depending on your financial situation and the actual need for a car (which definitely varies).
Many things in life are underpinned by financial situations. Some large, some small. A college education, large. A new car, small.

A question for those who believe their children need to have skin in the game: if it is possible to pay a significant portion of the costs of college, why wouldn't it be possible to pay for a car?

It really boils down to what other bills are being paid by the student.

Broken Man 199
:confused You said it is likely that your grandkids will pay for their own new car in high school, there are about a handful of cars (at least right now) that can be purchased new for <$25k OTD. Math is math, that's a ton of money for a high school student to earn, even if parents cover absolutely every other cost in their life.
So, you know the balances of the savings accounts of my grandchildren? :D I seriously doubt the grandchildren know.

Sometimes relatives are very generous to family members, even I am on occasion. Though not as much as others.

It is somewhat a culture thing. Not everyone is in the same culture. Some have an admittedly rabid goal to send out their children well prepared into life. Each generation builds on the one before them. Family is a basic but powerful foundation.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
stoptothink
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by stoptothink »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:41 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:19 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:48 am
HomerJ wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 pm

Your grandkids will not be able to afford new cars working part-time in HS and college.

Used car, maybe.

We're a different generation... My used car in high school cost $500.
Even with Del Taco paying $19/hr around here, how is a high school kid going to afford to buy a new car today? This is obviously a topic of discussion with nuance, depending on your financial situation and the actual need for a car (which definitely varies).
Many things in life are underpinned by financial situations. Some large, some small. A college education, large. A new car, small.

A question for those who believe their children need to have skin in the game: if it is possible to pay a significant portion of the costs of college, why wouldn't it be possible to pay for a car?

It really boils down to what other bills are being paid by the student.

Broken Man 199
:confused You said it is likely that your grandkids will pay for their own new car in high school, there are about a handful of cars (at least right now) that can be purchased new for <$25k OTD. Math is math, that's a ton of money for a high school student to earn, even if parents cover absolutely every other cost in their life.
So, you know the balances of the savings accounts of my grandchildren? :D I seriously doubt the grandchildren know.

Sometimes relatives are very generous to family members, even I am on occasion. Though not as much as others.

It is somewhat a culture thing. Not everyone is in the same culture. Some have an admittedly rabid goal to send out their children well prepared into life. Each generation builds on the one before them. Family is a basic but powerful foundation.

Broken Man 1999
:oops: So, your grandkids will buy cars "all by themselves"...thanks (at least in part) to gifts from relatives? That definitely is not how your original statement came across, which is why Homer and I both responded. Great if your grandkids can get into brand new cars in high school, I just wouldn't characterize it as "buying it themselves" and it's probably not a realistic situation for a lot of other 16yr olds.
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:55 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:41 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:19 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:32 pm
stoptothink wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:48 am

Even with Del Taco paying $19/hr around here, how is a high school kid going to afford to buy a new car today? This is obviously a topic of discussion with nuance, depending on your financial situation and the actual need for a car (which definitely varies).
Many things in life are underpinned by financial situations. Some large, some small. A college education, large. A new car, small.

A question for those who believe their children need to have skin in the game: if it is possible to pay a significant portion of the costs of college, why wouldn't it be possible to pay for a car?

It really boils down to what other bills are being paid by the student.

Broken Man 199
:confused You said it is likely that your grandkids will pay for their own new car in high school, there are about a handful of cars (at least right now) that can be purchased new for <$25k OTD. Math is math, that's a ton of money for a high school student to earn, even if parents cover absolutely every other cost in their life.
So, you know the balances of the savings accounts of my grandchildren? :D I seriously doubt the grandchildren know.

Sometimes relatives are very generous to family members, even I am on occasion. Though not as much as others.

It is somewhat a culture thing. Not everyone is in the same culture. Some have an admittedly rabid goal to send out their children well prepared into life. Each generation builds on the one before them. Family is a basic but powerful foundation.

Broken Man 1999
:oops: So, your grandkids will buy cars "all by themselves"...thanks (at least in part) to gifts from relatives? That definitely is not how your original statement came across, which is why Homer and I both responded. Great if your grandkids buy new cars in high school like that, it's just not realistic for a lot of other 16yr olds.
That is one possibility. OTOH, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to buy a car if they had a part-time job and they had all other college expenses covered. It isn't like you have to plop down $25,000 before you leave the dealership. My DDs were very industrious and did very well when they were going to college and working part-time. I didn't buy their cars, they not only bought their cars, but also paid for their living quarters. I did cover their other college expenses, their insurance, and paid for AAA as I was no use to them if they needed highway help.

The grandkids might be able to keep every nickle they have received over the years and use for another goal. Money being fungible.

Funny thing, the oldest grandchild is already chomping at the bit to get a job.

At any rate, $25,000 isn't that large a hill to climb.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
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Re: Sanity Check: Car for Teenage Driver

Post by cashboy »

OP,

some good advice in this thread.

i just went through what you are going through. i know what you mean and i feel your pain.

based on our requirements (teenager will be driving to college and part time job - both 10 miles from home) I eventually found a 2008 toyota prius on craiglist with 180,00 miles on it. single owner that bought it new. so, i went to the owner's house. the prius was his wife's daily driver; a top of the line tesla was his other car. :happy

prius was well maintained. drove like new. bought it. some minor dings and scratches, but looks good from 10 feet away. :happy

it has been a couple of months and it has been reliable.

lesson I learned was to be patient and 'reasonable' in expectations, and be prepared to move fast if you find something good.

best of luck to you.

:sharebeer
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