Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

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MMiroir
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by MMiroir »

chipperd wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:48 pm
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:36 am
boogle_12 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:14 pm
chipperd wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:35 am
moneym wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:53 pm I have a unique problem helping my very bright daughter choose a college. She wants to be an English major. We live in Florida and she doesn't want to go to any state schools. She's very bright, 4.0 student, AP classes, top 1% on her PSATs. She'll be a junior and take the SATs next year.

Right now she is just looking at top tier colleges. I think she could get into a top tier college, but I can't really afford to pay $80,000 a year for an Ivy or public Ivy and don't really want to pay that for an English degree anyway. Since state schools aren't an option, what are some second tier schools that might offer merit scholarships?

She's looking for a good English program, in a liberal area of the country. I think her primary interests are just having a fun college experience, on a great campus with a bunch of like minded students.
Father of three high functioning adult kids currently in undergrad in the Northeast to give you my two cents based on your daughter's profile and potential major.
…..
In addition to the recommendations far up thread, I would say take a look at Brandeis University.
Warning: Brandeis is NOT a party school by any definition.

More importantly, with a your daughter's profile, if you want to drastically reduce college costs in general, get your household income under about 85k/year.
Here's a list to check out of schools that meet a similar percentage of need:

https://thecollegesolution.com/list-of- ... cial-need/

Best of luck!
It is not definite but OP said earlier in thread “No, I ran all the NPC and she won't quality for any need based assistance.”

I assume this was also at some schools that meet 100% financial need, so that list is out of the question if there’s not a solid chance of a large non-need based, scholarship. Brandeis seems to top out at $20,000 a year, so it would still be 60k/yr after factoring in room and board.
The cost of attendance at Brandeis is $75,000 a year, or more than $300,000 for four years. According to college data, merit aid was received by 13.8 percent undergraduates with the average award of $14,481, so with the average merit award total tuition would be around $240,000. Brandeis is ranked 42 in the national rankings. The OP's in-state flagship is ranked 28 in the national rankings and would have a four year costs of $84,000 without Bright Futures, and $60,000 with Bright Futures. If the OP's daughter has a bunch of AP classes, she could graduate in three years which would save time and money, and open up the possibility of getting a Masters Degree at a wide variety of schools in the same amount of time and for less cost that it would take to get a four years bachelors at that same private school.
Given OP's daughter's stats, I would be she would be above the average merit $ you quote.
Your points are good ones in that:
1) State flagships are generally cheaper for most (not all), and
2)If you are looking to maximize merit $, a student would need to attend a school a half or full notch below the best school they could get into.
Would she? Not to disrespect the OP or her daughter, but college admissions has changed radically in the past few years. Ever since schools started going test optional a few years ago, the value of applicants with high test scores has steadily declined. It used to be that colleges were under pressure to keep median test score figures up. Now, with 20 to 30 percent of the classes being accepted test optional, colleges do not need the same sheer number of high test score kids in order to maintain high median test score ranges. As a result, many kids with high test scores but who are otherwise average are being bypassed for kids with lower or no test scores but more interesting applications.

Personally, we know a couple of kids in the past cycle with good grades and 35+ ACT scores who were shut out of T-30 privates. It was eye opening when younger siblings with nearly identical qualifications as older siblings get shut out of the schools that the older siblings had gotten into.

Here is a story from the WSJ from the most recent cycle about a girl with a 1550 SAT and 3.95 GPA and 11 AP classes. Pre-pandemic, she would have been a shoe-in at a number of T-20's. Today, all she has are a pile of rejections and is attending Arizona State, her safety.

https://www.wsj.com/story/she-scored-15 ... r-68767071
chipperd
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by chipperd »

MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:11 pm
chipperd wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:48 pm
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:36 am
boogle_12 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:14 pm
chipperd wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:35 am

Father of three high functioning adult kids currently in undergrad in the Northeast to give you my two cents based on your daughter's profile and potential major.
…..
In addition to the recommendations far up thread, I would say take a look at Brandeis University.
Warning: Brandeis is NOT a party school by any definition.

More importantly, with a your daughter's profile, if you want to drastically reduce college costs in general, get your household income under about 85k/year.
Here's a list to check out of schools that meet a similar percentage of need:

https://thecollegesolution.com/list-of- ... cial-need/

Best of luck!
It is not definite but OP said earlier in thread “No, I ran all the NPC and she won't quality for any need based assistance.”

I assume this was also at some schools that meet 100% financial need, so that list is out of the question if there’s not a solid chance of a large non-need based, scholarship. Brandeis seems to top out at $20,000 a year, so it would still be 60k/yr after factoring in room and board.
The cost of attendance at Brandeis is $75,000 a year, or more than $300,000 for four years. According to college data, merit aid was received by 13.8 percent undergraduates with the average award of $14,481, so with the average merit award total tuition would be around $240,000. Brandeis is ranked 42 in the national rankings. The OP's in-state flagship is ranked 28 in the national rankings and would have a four year costs of $84,000 without Bright Futures, and $60,000 with Bright Futures. If the OP's daughter has a bunch of AP classes, she could graduate in three years which would save time and money, and open up the possibility of getting a Masters Degree at a wide variety of schools in the same amount of time and for less cost that it would take to get a four years bachelors at that same private school.
Given OP's daughter's stats, I would be she would be above the average merit $ you quote.
Your points are good ones in that:
1) State flagships are generally cheaper for most (not all), and
2)If you are looking to maximize merit $, a student would need to attend a school a half or full notch below the best school they could get into.
Would she? Not to disrespect the OP or her daughter, but college admissions has changed radically in the past few years. Ever since schools started going test optional a few years ago, the value of applicants with high test scores has steadily declined. It used to be that colleges were under pressure to keep median test score figures up. Now, with 20 to 30 percent of the classes being accepted test optional, colleges do not need the same sheer number of high test score kids in order to maintain high median test score ranges. As a result, many kids with high test scores but who are otherwise average are being bypassed for kids with lower or no test scores but more interesting applications.

Personally, we know a couple of kids in the past cycle with good grades and 35+ ACT scores who were shut out of T-30 privates. It was eye opening when younger siblings with nearly identical qualifications as older siblings get shut out of the schools that the older siblings had gotten into.

Here is a story from the WSJ from the most recent cycle about a girl with a 1550 SAT and 3.95 GPA and 11 AP classes. Pre-pandemic, she would have been a shoe-in at a number of T-20's. Today, all she has are a pile of rejections and is attending Arizona State, her safety.

https://www.wsj.com/story/she-scored-15 ... r-68767071
I take your point re: the reduced role of standardized tests, but that also works both ways (ie: kids who had top grades but didn't test out well on standardized tests are getting in better schools than where they would a few years ago).

In fact, students who take the SAT or ACT and do well, provide it and those who take the test and don't do as well as they feel they should have, just don't provide the result. So it's even more useless than a few years ago. SAT and ACT, in current form, will soon be a thing of the past as that metric isn't of much use. Scores on AP tests seem more useful as they are standardized internationally and students are incentivized to take them to receive the potential college credit(s). Even more of a red flag if not taken or results provided. Apologies for the soapbox moment.

All that said, the OP posted in the original post that the daughter has a 4.0 which includes more than one AP class. So straight A's or better for 4 years (or more if she took H.S. classes in 8th grade). So the PSAT top 1% certainly seems to accurately reflect this students ability since it jives with the straight A performance history. Her SAT or ACT scores will only help her if they match up with her PSAT scores.

So yes, I believe a student with the profile noted above will receive much more than an average merit scholarship at a school in the top 35-50 that is looking to improve their admissions metrics. And schools in that range are always looking to move up. Esp. as an English major as, generally speaking, not to many English majors get top 1% scores (790 and above) on the math portion.

A student with her profile would be a feather in the cap of a top 35 - 50 school.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
livesoft
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by livesoft »

moneym wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:53 pm I have a unique problem helping my very bright daughter choose a college. She wants to be an English major. We live in Florida and she doesn't want to go to any state schools. She's very bright, 4.0 student, AP classes, top 1% on her PSATs. She'll be a junior and take the SATs next year.

Right now she is just looking at top tier colleges. I think she could get into a top tier college, but I can't really afford to pay $80,000 a year for an Ivy or public Ivy and don't really want to pay that for an English degree anyway. Since state schools aren't an option, what are some second tier schools that might offer merit scholarships?

She's looking for a good English program, in a liberal area of the country. I think her primary interests are just having a fun college experience, on a great campus with a bunch of like minded students.
When you assigned this task to your daughter, what colleges did she come back with that might offer merit scholarships? Based on your first few sentences, your daughter should need no help whatsoever from bogleheads.org. If she has difficulties, then be sure to show her the entirety of this comment along with what you wrote as well. Thanks!
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TXGator
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by TXGator »

I was in a similar boat when looking schools as a HS Florida student, but for engineering. I was dead set on something small and traditional like Lehigh for schools as I was ready to leave Florida as much as anyone.

But, if she can get into the Honors College at UF its as good as anywhere and with smaller class sizes, plus UF continues to climb annually in the rankings of top public schools.
nigel_ht
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by nigel_ht »

MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:11 pm
Here is a story from the WSJ from the most recent cycle about a girl with a 1550 SAT and 3.95 GPA and 11 AP classes. Pre-pandemic, she would have been a shoe-in at a number of T-20's. Today, all she has are a pile of rejections and is attending Arizona State, her safety.

https://www.wsj.com/story/she-scored-15 ... r-68767071
If she only applied to the 6 top schools listed and ASU then...well...okay...that's on her. They don't go into how many and which schools she applied to.

1550 and 3.95 is not a shoe in for the top 20. They reject 1600 and 4.0 applicants at #20 UCLA. 1550 is just above the middle 50 of admits and that's with a 14% acceptance rate. UT at Austin is #38 overall and #5 for business and she probably would have had a good shot there. Probably a decent shot at UVA as well.

ASU is decent for business (#23) and not that expensive out of state (under $30K) so it's not as terrible an outcome as the article makes it out to be. Certainly cheaper than $56K for out of state at UVA...ASU has a decent comp sci program as well (#20). It doesn't have the name recognition as the T20 but she's probably getting a good education there...just not the same level of peer network for after graduation.
MMiroir
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by MMiroir »

nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:16 am
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:11 pm
Here is a story from the WSJ from the most recent cycle about a girl with a 1550 SAT and 3.95 GPA and 11 AP classes. Pre-pandemic, she would have been a shoe-in at a number of T-20's. Today, all she has are a pile of rejections and is attending Arizona State, her safety.

https://www.wsj.com/story/she-scored-15 ... r-68767071
If she only applied to the 6 top schools listed and ASU then...well...okay...that's on her. They don't go into how many and which schools she applied to.

1550 and 3.95 is not a shoe in for the top 20. They reject 1600 and 4.0 applicants at #20 UCLA. 1550 is just above the middle 50 of admits and that's with a 14% acceptance rate. UT at Austin is #38 overall and #5 for business and she probably would have had a good shot there. Probably a decent shot at UVA as well.
I agree she made mistakes, but a 1550 and 3.95 UW would put her in the top 1 percent of applicants, just like the OP's daughter. It is a cautionary tale that high test scores, high grades, lots of AP's and a busy scholastic schedule do not necessarily make for a successful applicant.

Edited to add she applied and was rejected from UT Austin.
nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:16 amASU is decent for business (#23) and not that expensive out of state (under $30K) so it's not as terrible an outcome as the article makes it out to be. Certainly cheaper than $56K for out of state at UVA...ASU has a decent comp sci program as well (#20). It doesn't have the name recognition as the T20 but she's probably getting a good education there...just not the same level of peer network for after graduation.
ASU is a good school with a great honors program. It was the super safety for two of our kids, and I remember being very impressed by their admitted students materials as well as the free flight they offered to visit campus. However, with an 88 percent acceptance rate, it would be a great disappointment if that was only school my kids were accepted to, especially since they started the application process in the 1 percent of test scores.
Last edited by MMiroir on Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Valuethinker
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by Valuethinker »

nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:16 am

1550 and 3.95 is not a shoe in for the top 20. They reject 1600 and 4.0 applicants at #20 UCLA. 1550 is just above the middle 50 of admits and that's with a 14% acceptance rate. UT at Austin is #38 overall and #5 for business and she probably would have had a good shot there. Probably a decent shot at UVA as well.
I have taught graduates of a number of American universities-- liberal arts & business.

On undergrad business, after Wharton (Penn), I think UVA is no 2, and UT Austin easily in the top 10 (maybe the top 5)?

Therefore would these not be particularly difficult schools to get into?

Undergrad Business is just not like undergrad liberal arts generally:

1. many more of the degrees are offered at state universities, not private, as it deviates from the "pure" orientations of those colleges. You cannot read business at Stanford/ Harvard/ Yale/ Princeton I don't think, all you can do is do economics & take some related courses (like Financial Economics).

2. it leads to some of the highest average remunerations, 5 years out (other than types of engineering, computer science etc)

3. it's therefore highly competitive to get in, even at a state school.

If someone had that interest, I would suggest also considering a foreign university - McGill in Montreal in particular (because it is widely known in America & Europe) although I believe the degree is Bachelors of Commerce, which is not so easily translatable into the American system. There are also excellent undergrad business degrees in Europe (taught in English). A Junior Year Abroad might be a safer way to get that experience.

If someone asked me, I would say by all means do an undergrad business degree but try to combine it with something else (dual major?) to give yourself a broader education. A foreign language, for example. Computer science.
Nowizard
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by Nowizard »

As a former English major with a father who was a professor of English at a liberal arts college, there is a bias toward smaller, liberal arts schools that offer opportunities to establish personal relationships with a few, like-minded students or a professor who is teaching at a smaller college. That is not to say this cannot occur at larger universities, but it does reflect what I believe is better certainty. One of our son's, for example, started at a large university and was taken aside by a professor who stated that his focus and educational commitment was such that he would recommend he actually transfer to a college with more focus in his areas of interest. At the time, he had not matured educationally but was committed. He did, with great results and numerous, academic honors as he developed greater confidence. As a psychologist who worked with students among others, there were frequent discussions about meeting the personalities of the student as well as the academics. That meant that it was significant to consider not only where they could get in but where they could thrive. There is a definite feeling by many parents that the top place in terms of obtaining admission is best, but there are other considerations as well. For example, would your daughter be better off at Yale or Williams, the number one ranked, liberal arts college in some rankings? Merit scholarships are typically available at both.

Tim
MMiroir
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by MMiroir »

Nowizard wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:19 amFor example, would your daughter be better off at Yale or Williams, the number one ranked, liberal arts college in some rankings? Merit scholarships are typically available at both.
Neither Yale nor Williams offer merit scholarships, and Yale would easily be the preferred choice.
nigel_ht
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by nigel_ht »

Valuethinker wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:54 am
nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:16 am

1550 and 3.95 is not a shoe in for the top 20. They reject 1600 and 4.0 applicants at #20 UCLA. 1550 is just above the middle 50 of admits and that's with a 14% acceptance rate. UT at Austin is #38 overall and #5 for business and she probably would have had a good shot there. Probably a decent shot at UVA as well.
I have taught graduates of a number of American universities-- liberal arts & business.

On undergrad business, after Wharton (Penn), I think UVA is no 2, and UT Austin easily in the top 10 (maybe the top 5)?

Therefore would these not be particularly difficult schools to get into?
Yes, but not quite as hard as say...Harvard. :)

ASU is a good school sooo...I dunno...seems like there are a lot of 1500+ 4.0 UW applicants out there going for the same few slots at the top.
boogle_12
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by boogle_12 »

chipperd wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:41 pm
A few reactions:

1) University of Florida is ranked #28 nationally out of all universities, not all schools. More importantly is how a school is ranked for a particular major. U of F is #81 for English majors. Not withstanding the daughter doesn't want in state public and is looking for a more liberal experience than U of F is known for providing.
2) "No I ran all the NPC.." If OP is looking for a list of schools to consider, than OP definitely hasn't run "all the NPC" as there would be schools folks would suggest that the OP hasn't considered to run the NPC on.
3) Not sure where you got the info that Brandeis tops out at 20k/year merit. It's simply false. My daughter gets much more than than number now for merit (45+k/year). Her room mate is on a full tuition merit ride.
Just got the bill in the mail today for next semester and it came in at just under $1,600 before books.
Best.
edited numerous times for grammar and fact checking.
Let's say OP ran an NPC for Yale or a similar school that is considered very generous at meeting 100% need. I assume it says they would not get financial aid, and that about settles whether they would get need-based aid at any school.

As for Brandeis, this is what I found on their website and am going off of:

https://www.brandeis.edu/student-financ ... merit.html

The merit range is 10,500 - 20,500 for ones they call Dean, Trustee, Presidential etc. The MLK one is based on the financial need profile. As far as we know, it is unlikely they offer a 45+ scholarship at present if the OP's EFC is the the sticker price, or nearly so.
chipperd
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by chipperd »

boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:59 pm
chipperd wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:41 pm
A few reactions:

1) University of Florida is ranked #28 nationally out of all universities, not all schools. More importantly is how a school is ranked for a particular major. U of F is #81 for English majors. Not withstanding the daughter doesn't want in state public and is looking for a more liberal experience than U of F is known for providing.
2) "No I ran all the NPC.." If OP is looking for a list of schools to consider, than OP definitely hasn't run "all the NPC" as there would be schools folks would suggest that the OP hasn't considered to run the NPC on.
3) Not sure where you got the info that Brandeis tops out at 20k/year merit. It's simply false. My daughter gets much more than than number now for merit (45+k/year). Her room mate is on a full tuition merit ride.
Just got the bill in the mail today for next semester and it came in at just under $1,600 before books.
Best.
edited numerous times for grammar and fact checking.
Let's say OP ran an NPC for Yale or a similar school that is considered very generous at meeting 100% need. I assume it says they would not get financial aid, and that about settles whether they would get need-based aid at any school.

As for Brandeis, this is what I found on their website and am going off of:

https://www.brandeis.edu/student-financ ... merit.html

The merit range is 10,500 - 20,500 for ones they call Dean, Trustee, Presidential etc. The MLK one is based on the financial need profile. As far as we know, it is unlikely they offer a 45+ scholarship at present if the OP's EFC is the the sticker price, or nearly so.
Not sure where you are getting the bolded hypothetical above. The OP didn't state if his daughter qualifies for financial aid or not and basing your argument on a made up hypothetical really doesn't hold any water. All that is beside the point anyway as we are talking merit $, not financial aid.

The bolded and italicized is incorrect. B/C a website shows merit scholarships they offer doesn't mean those are the only merit scholarships offered. In fact first hand knowledge indicates otherwise as I just doubled checked my daughter's award letter and part of it is a $67k merit scholarship.

If anyone wants to let me know how to attach a pic please let me know.

Not sure the point you are trying to make...
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
Nowizard
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by Nowizard »

Mmiror: Your comment about Yale being the preferred choice may be related to available merit scholarships. If so, apologies for the misinterpretation. However, if it is simply Yale is an easy choice, I disagree. The best choice is the one for the student, and "Top tier" is both externally and internally defined.

Tim
boogle_12
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by boogle_12 »

chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:03 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:59 pm
chipperd wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:41 pm
A few reactions:

1) University of Florida is ranked #28 nationally out of all universities, not all schools. More importantly is how a school is ranked for a particular major. U of F is #81 for English majors. Not withstanding the daughter doesn't want in state public and is looking for a more liberal experience than U of F is known for providing.
2) "No I ran all the NPC.." If OP is looking for a list of schools to consider, than OP definitely hasn't run "all the NPC" as there would be schools folks would suggest that the OP hasn't considered to run the NPC on.
3) Not sure where you got the info that Brandeis tops out at 20k/year merit. It's simply false. My daughter gets much more than than number now for merit (45+k/year). Her room mate is on a full tuition merit ride.
Just got the bill in the mail today for next semester and it came in at just under $1,600 before books.
Best.
edited numerous times for grammar and fact checking.
Let's say OP ran an NPC for Yale or a similar school that is considered very generous at meeting 100% need. I assume it says they would not get financial aid, and that about settles whether they would get need-based aid at any school.

As for Brandeis, this is what I found on their website and am going off of:

https://www.brandeis.edu/student-financ ... merit.html

The merit range is 10,500 - 20,500 for ones they call Dean, Trustee, Presidential etc. The MLK one is based on the financial need profile. As far as we know, it is unlikely they offer a 45+ scholarship at present if the OP's EFC is the the sticker price, or nearly so.
Not sure where you are getting the bolded hypothetical above. The OP didn't state if his daughter qualifies for financial aid or not and basing your argument on a made up hypothetical really doesn't hold any water.

The bolded and italicized is incorrect. B/C a website shows scholarships they offer doesn't mean those are the only merit scholarships offered. In fact first hand knowledge indicates otherwise as I just doubled checked my daughter's award letter and part of it is a $67k merit scholarship.

If anyone wants to let me know how to attach a pic please let me know.

Not sure the point you are trying to make but afraid it missed the mark.
You would have to upload the picture and link to it I believe based on the software the forum uses. I understand this is your experience, but I don't see the utility in suggesting a school that gave your daughter and possibly her roommate a scholarship, with no public information about full tuition scholarships on their site. The bolded about not being the only merit scholarships is a little wishful thinking considering the page says:

The following is a list of all merit scholarship opportunities offered by Brandeis to undergraduate students. Consult your merit scholarship notification letter for the expiration policy that applies to your particular award.

While it would help if the OP came back and provided more details, I think it would be better to assume they have a higher income (but not 250k+ high) and/or have a lot of home equity, assets etc, but would prefer not to pay more than a small amount over the public FL schools.

The OP also already said they ran an NPCs and are not getting aid from them from schools. I assume they did this for the Ivies and it probably means their financial situation is like I had mentioned. While that could be wrong, your suggestions of Brandeis is missing the mark as I am pretty sure the OP is looking for a school that will very likely give a large scholarship. I mentioned this because you provided a link about which schools meet nearly 100% of need for their students. This is of little use if the OP is not judged to be "in need" based on their financial numbers. While they could reduce their income to 85k or below, I think that suggestion is also of little value considering we are 6 months into the year (assuming the OP is a salaried employee) and CSS Profile will ask for the amounts in all sorts of bank/investment accounts.

At this point, I see no reason to believe Brandeis gives out full tuition scholarships other than your anecdote. That would be a waste of an application fee, or worse, put OP in the situation of having to have a tough discussion about Brandeis after she has already been accepted if the financial aid letter is not as rosy as yours.
valleyrock
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by valleyrock »

My experience:
--Apply to a wide variety of schools, simultaneously applying for all available merit scholarships and financial aide (FASFA form and there can be others). It's a pain, but do it.
--Visit the schools. Maybe one will look ideal and she can apply for early admission (or early decision, which is different).
--See what the schools offer for aid. There's almost always a discount, regardless. (We had means, but my kid got offered a discount (OK, scholarship) of $18,000 per year for the 4 years at two schools (although full tuition was about $55,000).
--You can go back to any of the schools' financial aid offices and politely ask if there's any more they can do to help. You can tell them what school B is offering, you'd love them to match it, etc. You never know.
--Tie such an ask to the timing: as I recall the date by which undergrads have to decide on where to go/what aid package to accept is May 3rd. So, on May 4th, there can be slots.
--Make a decision, try it. 30% of undergrads change schools, for various reasons.
--Keep in mind this is not the end of it. Remember there's graduate school and professional programs. For example, master's degrees in technical writing, MBAs, law school, master's degrees in computer science, and on and on. Look beyond the bachelor's, at least in a preliminary way. A degree in English is fine for many types endeavors. I just met a philosophy major who went to medical school: it was a matter of meeting the prerequisites by taking various electives, summer school, other schools, etc.
--Enjoy
MMiroir
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by MMiroir »

boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:20 pmAt this point, I see no reason to believe Brandeis gives out full tuition scholarships other than your anecdote. That would be a waste of an application fee, or worse, put OP in the situation of having to have a tough discussion about Brandeis after she has already been accepted if the financial aid letter is not as rosy as yours.
If you go to Brandeis Merit Scholarship page and look at the "Martin Luther King Jr. Scholarship", the text reads:

https://www.brandeis.edu/student-financ ... merit.html

This scholarship is awarded to entering first-year students on the basis of academic performance and extracurricular participation in secondary school, outstanding community involvement and demonstrated financial need.

There is no application for this scholarship beyond the admission application and the CSS/Financial Aid PROFILE. (Please note that the FAFSA and parent and student taxes will also be required upon payment of the deposit.)

The amount of this scholarship is equal to the student's calculated institutional financial need, based on the CSS/Financial Aid PROFILE, the FAFSA and student and parent tax returns, and is renewable for up to eight semesters of study at Brandeis.


The way I read this, this merit scholarship stacks on top of need based aid to make it a full ride, but my reading comprehension skills are poor as I am a lowly state school graduate.
Nowizard wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pmMmiror: Your comment about Yale being the preferred choice may be related to available merit scholarships. If so, apologies for the misinterpretation. However, if it is simply Yale is an easy choice, I disagree. The best choice is the one for the student, and "Top tier" is both externally and internally defined.

Tim
Tim - Once again, Yale does not offer merit scholarships. I don't know why you keep on repeating this falsehood. In a comparison between Yale and Williams, Yale dominates decisions between cross admits.

https://www.parchment.com/c/college/too ... University

The only similar level schools that Yale consistently loses the cross-admit comparisons are Harvard, Stanford and MIT, and the bulk of these cross-admit loss are for engineering majors which is a weak spot for Yale. Yes, "Top tier" is both externally and internally defined, but when more than 80% of the cross-admit decisions go one way, it is pretty easy to see which one is the preferred choice.
chipperd
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by chipperd »

boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:20 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:03 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:59 pm
chipperd wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:41 pm
A few reactions:

1) University of Florida is ranked #28 nationally out of all universities, not all schools. More importantly is how a school is ranked for a particular major. U of F is #81 for English majors. Not withstanding the daughter doesn't want in state public and is looking for a more liberal experience than U of F is known for providing.
2) "No I ran all the NPC.." If OP is looking for a list of schools to consider, than OP definitely hasn't run "all the NPC" as there would be schools folks would suggest that the OP hasn't considered to run the NPC on.
3) Not sure where you got the info that Brandeis tops out at 20k/year merit. It's simply false. My daughter gets much more than than number now for merit (45+k/year). Her room mate is on a full tuition merit ride.
Just got the bill in the mail today for next semester and it came in at just under $1,600 before books.
Best.
edited numerous times for grammar and fact checking.
Let's say OP ran an NPC for Yale or a similar school that is considered very generous at meeting 100% need. I assume it says they would not get financial aid, and that about settles whether they would get need-based aid at any school.

As for Brandeis, this is what I found on their website and am going off of:

https://www.brandeis.edu/student-financ ... merit.html

The merit range is 10,500 - 20,500 for ones they call Dean, Trustee, Presidential etc. The MLK one is based on the financial need profile. As far as we know, it is unlikely they offer a 45+ scholarship at present if the OP's EFC is the the sticker price, or nearly so.
Not sure where you are getting the bolded hypothetical above. The OP didn't state if his daughter qualifies for financial aid or not and basing your argument on a made up hypothetical really doesn't hold any water.

The bolded and italicized is incorrect. B/C a website shows scholarships they offer doesn't mean those are the only merit scholarships offered. In fact first hand knowledge indicates otherwise as I just doubled checked my daughter's award letter and part of it is a $67k merit scholarship.

If anyone wants to let me know how to attach a pic please let me know.

Not sure the point you are trying to make but afraid it missed the mark.
You would have to upload the picture and link to it I believe based on the software the forum uses. I understand this is your experience, but I don't see the utility in suggesting a school that gave your daughter and possibly her roommate a scholarship, with no public information about full tuition scholarships on their site. The bolded about not being the only merit scholarships is a little wishful thinking considering the page says:

The following is a list of all merit scholarship opportunities offered by Brandeis to undergraduate students. Consult your merit scholarship notification letter for the expiration policy that applies to your particular award.

While it would help if the OP came back and provided more details, I think it would be better to assume they have a higher income (but not 250k+ high) and/or have a lot of home equity, assets etc, but would prefer not to pay more than a small amount over the public FL schools.

The OP also already said they ran an NPCs and are not getting aid from them from schools. I assume they did this for the Ivies and it probably means their financial situation is like I had mentioned. While that could be wrong, your suggestions of Brandeis is missing the mark as I am pretty sure the OP is looking for a school that will very likely give a large scholarship. I mentioned this because you provided a link about which schools meet nearly 100% of need for their students. This is of little use if the OP is not judged to be "in need" based on their financial numbers. While they could reduce their income to 85k or below, I think that suggestion is also of little value considering we are 6 months into the year (assuming the OP is a salaried employee) and CSS Profile will ask for the amounts in all sorts of bank/investment accounts.

At this point, I see no reason to believe Brandeis gives out full tuition scholarships other than your anecdote. That would be a waste of an application fee, or worse, put OP in the situation of having to have a tough discussion about Brandeis after she has already been accepted if the financial aid letter is not as rosy as yours.


When a student receives a large merit scholarship, this may put the student in a "difficult" situation if they have their heart set on a different school. I prefer to see that as a nice problem to have.

Another poster stated above one way a student can be a recipient of more than $20k/year.

The facts I have read in the OP, along with those personally experienced and generously outlined, necessitate that we agree to disagree.

Given the OP daughter's desire to leave FL to be in a more liberal area of the country, to not attend a public university and be in a school that closely matches her history of academic performance, I stand by the idea that the OP check out Brandeis as an option.

Not sure how it could hurt.

Take care.
Last edited by chipperd on Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
boogle_12
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by boogle_12 »

chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:49 pm
I'm not going to respond to every one of your points again as you continue to site information not provided by the OP.

When a student applies to a school and receives a large merit scholarship, which may put the student in a "difficult" situation, I believe that's a nice problem to have.

The facts I have read in the OP, along with those personally experienced and generously outlined, necessitate that we agree to disagree.

Given the OP's daughter's desire to leave FL to be in a more liberal area of the country, to not attend a public university and be in a school that closely matches her history of academic performance, I stand by the idea that the OP check out Brandeis as an option.

Not sure how it could hurt.
Take care.
You do not seem to understand that the difficult situation is that they will not be getting a large merit scholarship and will instead receive a letter saying the cost of attendance they expect out of the OP is 60k+ per year. Brandeis is not really a feasible option.
chipperd
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by chipperd »

boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:54 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:49 pm
I'm not going to respond to every one of your points again as you continue to site information not provided by the OP.

When a student applies to a school and receives a large merit scholarship, which may put the student in a "difficult" situation, I believe that's a nice problem to have.

The facts I have read in the OP, along with those personally experienced and generously outlined, necessitate that we agree to disagree.

Given the OP's daughter's desire to leave FL to be in a more liberal area of the country, to not attend a public university and be in a school that closely matches her history of academic performance, I stand by the idea that the OP check out Brandeis as an option.

Not sure how it could hurt.
Take care.
You do not seem to understand that the difficult situation is that they will not be getting a large merit scholarship and will instead receive a letter saying the cost of attendance they expect out of the OP is 60k+ per year. Brandeis is not really a feasible option.
Since the scholarship website and my experience don't match up with your position, feel free to please cite info provided by the OP to back up your assertion that the OP won't be getting a large merit scholarship from Brandeis, and I'll take a look.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
boogle_12
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by boogle_12 »

MMiroir wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:08 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:20 pmAt this point, I see no reason to believe Brandeis gives out full tuition scholarships other than your anecdote. That would be a waste of an application fee, or worse, put OP in the situation of having to have a tough discussion about Brandeis after she has already been accepted if the financial aid letter is not as rosy as yours.
If you go to Brandeis Merit Scholarship page and look at the "Martin Luther King Jr. Scholarship", the text reads:

https://www.brandeis.edu/student-financ ... merit.html

This scholarship is awarded to entering first-year students on the basis of academic performance and extracurricular participation in secondary school, outstanding community involvement and demonstrated financial need.

There is no application for this scholarship beyond the admission application and the CSS/Financial Aid PROFILE. (Please note that the FAFSA and parent and student taxes will also be required upon payment of the deposit.)

The amount of this scholarship is equal to the student's calculated institutional financial need, based on the CSS/Financial Aid PROFILE, the FAFSA and student and parent tax returns, and is renewable for up to eight semesters of study at Brandeis.


The way I read this, this merit scholarship stacks on top of need based aid to make it a full ride, but my reading comprehension skills are poor as I am a lowly state school graduate.
I am also a simple state school graduate, but for what it is worth to others, I agree with your interpretation. It appears this scholarship can amount to a full ride for those who qualify for that much in need based aid. It would help if more concrete and realistic options were suggested. Your earlier suggestion on the public FL schools is great, and I would encourage the OP to really discuss that with the daughter as they likely can find a good environment at one of the many schools within the state.

While it is only 20 students for their Maurice J. and Carolyn Dursi Cunniffe Presidential Scholarship scholarship, at least Fordham is upfront about how many get it and that this particular scholarship would cover tuition and the cost of a double room on-campus:

https://www.fordham.edu/undergraduate-f ... -citizens/

It would be an affordable school in the Northeast if they get that.
boogle_12
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by boogle_12 »

chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:02 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:54 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:49 pm
I'm not going to respond to every one of your points again as you continue to site information not provided by the OP.

When a student applies to a school and receives a large merit scholarship, which may put the student in a "difficult" situation, I believe that's a nice problem to have.

The facts I have read in the OP, along with those personally experienced and generously outlined, necessitate that we agree to disagree.

Given the OP's daughter's desire to leave FL to be in a more liberal area of the country, to not attend a public university and be in a school that closely matches her history of academic performance, I stand by the idea that the OP check out Brandeis as an option.

Not sure how it could hurt.
Take care.
You do not seem to understand that the difficult situation is that they will not be getting a large merit scholarship and will instead receive a letter saying the cost of attendance they expect out of the OP is 60k+ per year. Brandeis is not really a feasible option.
Since the scholarship website and my experience don't match up with your position, feel free to please cite info provided by the OP to back up your assertion that the OP won't be getting a large merit scholarship from Brandeis, and I'll take a look.
No, their scholarship website quite clearly shows the largest merit scholarship is $20,500, which is only about 1/3 of the tuition.

The first page of this thread, somebody asked if the OP may be eligible for some need-based aid and they replied:

"No, I ran all the NPC and she won't quality for any need based assistance."

I do not see how they will get the cost of Brandeis (including room & board) to a more reasonable level.
chipperd
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by chipperd »

boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:29 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:02 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:54 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:49 pm
I'm not going to respond to every one of your points again as you continue to site information not provided by the OP.

When a student applies to a school and receives a large merit scholarship, which may put the student in a "difficult" situation, I believe that's a nice problem to have.

The facts I have read in the OP, along with those personally experienced and generously outlined, necessitate that we agree to disagree.

Given the OP's daughter's desire to leave FL to be in a more liberal area of the country, to not attend a public university and be in a school that closely matches her history of academic performance, I stand by the idea that the OP check out Brandeis as an option.

Not sure how it could hurt.
Take care.
You do not seem to understand that the difficult situation is that they will not be getting a large merit scholarship and will instead receive a letter saying the cost of attendance they expect out of the OP is 60k+ per year. Brandeis is not really a feasible option.
Since the scholarship website and my experience don't match up with your position, feel free to please cite info provided by the OP to back up your assertion that the OP won't be getting a large merit scholarship from Brandeis, and I'll take a look.
No, their scholarship website quite clearly shows the largest merit scholarship is $20,500, which is only about 1/3 of the tuition.

The first page of this thread, somebody asked if the OP may be eligible for some need-based aid and they replied:

"No, I ran all the NPC and she won't quality for any need based assistance."

I do not see how they will get the cost of Brandeis (including room & board) to a more reasonable level.
As I stated earlier, if the OP hasn't looked at the entire universe of schools then the OP hasn't run "...all the NPC..." available.

There is more to a school than what is posted on a web page. Yes, sometimes individuals have more knowledge and expertise on an issue based on their experiences than can be gleaned online. I'm not often in the deep end of the pool of knowledge when it comes to many issues, but on this particular issue at this particular school, I can't get deeper.

I'm obviously not going to ignore my personal experience and reality in place of what, with all respect, someone on the internet finds on a web page.

So again, based on my actual experience (not made up hypotheticals), since the OP was looking for a school that might offer more merit money, I believe a student outlined by the OP should take a look at a Brandeis as they may be in the small minority that obtains close to or at a free ride based on her academic merits.

I've taken enough pf my time on this issue.

Be well.
:sharebeer
Last edited by chipperd on Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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boogle_12
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by boogle_12 »

chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:44 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:29 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:02 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:54 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:49 pm
I'm not going to respond to every one of your points again as you continue to site information not provided by the OP.

When a student applies to a school and receives a large merit scholarship, which may put the student in a "difficult" situation, I believe that's a nice problem to have.

The facts I have read in the OP, along with those personally experienced and generously outlined, necessitate that we agree to disagree.

Given the OP's daughter's desire to leave FL to be in a more liberal area of the country, to not attend a public university and be in a school that closely matches her history of academic performance, I stand by the idea that the OP check out Brandeis as an option.

Not sure how it could hurt.
Take care.
You do not seem to understand that the difficult situation is that they will not be getting a large merit scholarship and will instead receive a letter saying the cost of attendance they expect out of the OP is 60k+ per year. Brandeis is not really a feasible option.
Since the scholarship website and my experience don't match up with your position, feel free to please cite info provided by the OP to back up your assertion that the OP won't be getting a large merit scholarship from Brandeis, and I'll take a look.
No, their scholarship website quite clearly shows the largest merit scholarship is $20,500, which is only about 1/3 of the tuition.

The first page of this thread, somebody asked if the OP may be eligible for some need-based aid and they replied:

"No, I ran all the NPC and she won't quality for any need based assistance."

I do not see how they will get the cost of Brandeis (including room & board) to a more reasonable level.
As I stated earlier, if the OP hasn't looked at the entire universe of schools then the OP hasn't run "...all the NPC..." available.

You're asking me to ignore my personal experience and reality, which I won't do, so, again, based on my actual experience (not made up hypotheticals), I believe a student outlined by the OP should take a look at a Brandeis as they may be in the small minority that obtains close to or at a free ride. :sharebeer
If you have a listed name for a scholarship or award on your daughter's letter, that would be helpful. The OP does not need to run all NPCs if they have already run some at prestigious Ivy league schools. Another school is not going to magically say they qualify for a drastically high amount of need-based aid compared to what Yale, Harvard etc. has to offer. The suggestion of Brandeis is essentially the same as suggesting University of Southern California (pretend they fit the criteria momentarily) even though only less than 5% of students receive a full tuition scholarship at a school where there are many many students who had a high GPA and test scores in high school.
chipperd
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by chipperd »

boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:51 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:44 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:29 pm
chipperd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:02 pm
boogle_12 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:54 pm

You do not seem to understand that the difficult situation is that they will not be getting a large merit scholarship and will instead receive a letter saying the cost of attendance they expect out of the OP is 60k+ per year. Brandeis is not really a feasible option.
Since the scholarship website and my experience don't match up with your position, feel free to please cite info provided by the OP to back up your assertion that the OP won't be getting a large merit scholarship from Brandeis, and I'll take a look.
No, their scholarship website quite clearly shows the largest merit scholarship is $20,500, which is only about 1/3 of the tuition.

The first page of this thread, somebody asked if the OP may be eligible for some need-based aid and they replied:

"No, I ran all the NPC and she won't quality for any need based assistance."

I do not see how they will get the cost of Brandeis (including room & board) to a more reasonable level.
As I stated earlier, if the OP hasn't looked at the entire universe of schools then the OP hasn't run "...all the NPC..." available.

You're asking me to ignore my personal experience and reality, which I won't do, so, again, based on my actual experience (not made up hypotheticals), I believe a student outlined by the OP should take a look at a Brandeis as they may be in the small minority that obtains close to or at a free ride. :sharebeer
If you have a listed name for a scholarship or award on your daughter's letter, that would be helpful. The OP does not need to run all NPCs if they have already run some at prestigious Ivy league schools. Another school is not going to magically say they qualify for a drastically high amount of need-based aid compared to what Yale, Harvard etc. has to offer. The suggestion of Brandeis is essentially the same as suggesting University of Southern California (pretend they fit the criteria momentarily) even though only less than 5% of students receive a full tuition scholarship at a school where there are many many students who had a high GPA and test scores in high school.
Your minds made up, there is no point in providing more info or continuing this dialogue.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
Nowizard
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by Nowizard »

MMiroir: I either have been unclear in my post, or you have missed the point. While you are discussing concrete suggestions, my post is conceptual which requires a different type of thought in order to avoid interpretations such as the poster presenting a falsehood. The concept is that there are numerous considerations in defining what is the best school for an individual student. Those decisions depend on the individual student's personality, goals, academics and, yes, finances. However, whether there is a financial issue is at least partially defined by the interaction of many other issues, each of which leads you toward or away from a specific school. "Yale" is simply an example of what is considered a "Best" school, as is "Williams" an example of a smaller, liberal arts one. In the case of the OP, the financial aspect may be either greater or lesser than current thought depending on this concept. I hope this helps.

Tim
MMiroir
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Re: Help English major apply to colleges that might offer merit scholarships

Post by MMiroir »

Nowizard wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:25 am MMiroir: I either have been unclear in my post, or you have missed the point. While you are discussing concrete suggestions, my post is conceptual which requires a different type of thought in order to avoid interpretations such as the poster presenting a falsehood. The concept is that there are numerous considerations in defining what is the best school for an individual student. Those decisions depend on the individual student's personality, goals, academics and, yes, finances. However, whether there is a financial issue is at least partially defined by the interaction of many other issues, each of which leads you toward or away from a specific school. "Yale" is simply an example of what is considered a "Best" school, as is "Williams" an example of a smaller, liberal arts one. In the case of the OP, the financial aspect may be either greater or lesser than current thought depending on this concept. I hope this helps.

Tim
Tim - The falsehood is saying that Yale offers Merit aid. They do not. It is on their website.

https://finaid.yale.edu/costs-affordabi ... and-grants

While Yale does not award merit-based scholarships, Yale students often qualify for merit awards from other organizations.

This is widely known, yet you keep on repeating it.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... ps?slide=2

"All Ivy League schools, as well as several other very selective schools like Stanford, MIT and Caltech, do not give any academic merit scholarships. No matter if you discovered a cure, created the world's greatest invention, won an Academy Award or an Olympic gold medal," says Mandee Heller Adler, founder and president of International College Counselors. While they don't offer merit aid, Ivy League schools are known to be generous with meeting full financial need.

As for "the concept is that there are numerous considerations in defining what is the best school for an individual student. Those decisions depend on the individual student's personality, goals, academics and, yes, finances." I agree with that statement, and am convinced that the 15% of Yale-Williams cross admits who picked Williams did so because it was a better fit for them and that they made a valid choice for their personal situation. However, when 85% of Yale-Williams cross admits choose Yale, that is more than sufficient evidence that Yale is the preferred choice between people who are qualified for admission to both.
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