Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
Topic Author
fourwheelcycle
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:55 pm

Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by fourwheelcycle »

I have made several posts in the past encouraging parents and students to include top private colleges in their consideration for college applications, since these schools often provide significant need-based financial aid with minimal requirements for student loans. One of these schools, Dartmouth College, has just announced it will immediately be removing all federal and institutional loans from its undergraduate financial aid awards and replacing them with expanded scholarship grants.

I am not making this post to hype Dartmouth in particular. Dartmouth's initiative simply underscores my encouragement that the high cost of top private colleges should not dissuade qualified students, or their parents, from considering these colleges due to concerns about the burden of large student loans.

To make this post actionable, I will ask "If you are a parent planning with your child for their college education, will the knowledge that top private colleges are likely to offer significant need-based aid with minimal student loans encourage you to include these schools in your consideration?"
Normchad
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Normchad »

I like it! Good on them!

I think it’s a great thing they’re doing. It wouldn’t change anything for me though, as we’d qualify for full pay. But I 100% applaud their efforts.
bltn
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by bltn »

I applaud Dartmouth and other schools for providing need based grants rather than loans to admitted students. My son s school, Vanderbilt, was one of the first 6 or 7 schools in the country to start this program a number of years ago. Unfortunately, what the institution thinks a family needs, and what the family thinks they need for their child attend the school may be two different things. Some out of pocket money is usually involved.

When my son graduated from college 8 years ago, the annual cost to attend one of these private universities was 65,000. I just saw recently that the current annual cost is 80,000. That sounds like a lot of money to me.
Rex66
Posts: 1444
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:13 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Rex66 »

They will also likely cost shift

Bc it’s an ivy people will pay

“Wealthy” will pay complete full price which will go up soon.

I’m sure they have “run the numbers”.
SilverGirl
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by SilverGirl »

My son is starting there as a Freshman this fall. This makes me happy! We will not be eligible for any aid.

If another kid worked as hard as my son did, then good on Dartmouth for rewarding her or him with a full ride!

As an employer, I am a little saddened to see how the work ethic has deteriorated over the past couple of decades. (Not fair to generalize, I know, this comment is specific to my situation)

As a society we need to reward our deserving youth and give them a good start in life!
SilverGirl
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by SilverGirl »

Rex66 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:36 pm They will also likely cost shift

Bc it’s an ivy people will pay

“Wealthy” will pay complete full price which will go up soon.

I’m sure they have “run the numbers”.
Dartmouth has one of the largest endowments in the country I think. I expect my tuition to go up each year. Also the loan part of many of the packages was like 5,500 per year usually. More symbolic than anything. But why make them prove anything? They already proved they deserve the education.
User avatar
Picasso
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:19 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Picasso »

Great school. Tried to dedicate a bench outside the art history library to my wife as a gift, but they wanted $10k for 5 years 😳

Seriously though, wouldn’t you want to send your kids to the kind of place where they have a dedicated library for art history? So cool.
MMiroir
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:14 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by MMiroir »

SilverGirl wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:44 pm
Rex66 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:36 pm They will also likely cost shift

Bc it’s an ivy people will pay

“Wealthy” will pay complete full price which will go up soon.

I’m sure they have “run the numbers”.
Dartmouth has one of the largest endowments in the country I think. I expect my tuition to go up each year. Also the loan part of many of the packages was like 5,500 per year usually. More symbolic than anything. But why make them prove anything? They already proved they deserve the education.
The $5,500 figure is the maximum loan the government allows students to take by themselves as a freshman. It rises to $6,500 in year two, and finally $7,500 each for the last two years for a total of $31,000 over four years. Given that tuition these days is around $300,000, it is a drop in the bucket.

Good for Dartmouth, but this seems more symbolic than anything else. I know at the schools my kids are attending, the schools would discourage students from taking loans by reducing their financial aid award by the amount of the loan.
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Vulcan »

MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:44 am Good for Dartmouth, but this seems more symbolic than anything else.
It puts them in a very select club:
There are currently only six U.S. higher education institutions that are need-blind towards all applicants, seven of which meet full demonstrated need for all applicants, including international students. These are:

- Amherst College
- Dartmouth College
- Harvard University
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
- Princeton University
- Yale University

Brown University has announced plans to move towards a need-blind application policy for international applicants in four years.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blin ... l_students

Note: this is for US and international students, which is what makes it rare.

https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2022/01 ... admissions
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
an_asker
Posts: 4069
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by an_asker »

Vulcan wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:03 pm
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:44 am Good for Dartmouth, but this seems more symbolic than anything else.
It puts them in a very select club:
There are currently only six U.S. higher education institutions that are need-blind towards all applicants, seven of which meet full demonstrated need for all applicants, including international students. These are:

- Amherst College
- Dartmouth College
- Harvard University
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
- Princeton University
- Yale University

Brown University has announced plans to move towards a need-blind application policy for international applicants in four years.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blin ... l_students

Note: this is for US and international students, which is what makes it rare.

https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2022/01 ... admissions
I am confused. Isn't need-based (what OP wrote about) exactly opposite of need-blind (what you are referring to)?
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Vulcan »

an_asker wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:11 pm I am confused. Isn't need-based (what OP wrote about) exactly opposite of need-blind (what you are referring to)?
Scholarships can be merit- or need-based.

Admissions can be need-aware or need-blind.

The holy grail of financial aid are need-blind schools that guarantee to meet full financial need without loans for all applicants, both US and international.

Most places, even those that meet the need of domestic students, charge full sticker to the internationals. For many schools they are a major source of income. For example, Boston U is about quarter international, most, if not all of them, full pay.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
Point
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:33 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Point »

Ah, you’ve just hit the “there is no free lunch” button! And you are correct!
Rex66 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:36 pm They will also likely cost shift

Bc it’s an ivy people will pay

“Wealthy” will pay complete full price which will go up soon.

I’m sure they have “run the numbers”.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by SmileyFace »

an_asker wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:11 pm
Vulcan wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:03 pm
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:44 am Good for Dartmouth, but this seems more symbolic than anything else.
It puts them in a very select club:
There are currently only six U.S. higher education institutions that are need-blind towards all applicants, seven of which meet full demonstrated need for all applicants, including international students. These are:

- Amherst College
- Dartmouth College
- Harvard University
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
- Princeton University
- Yale University

Brown University has announced plans to move towards a need-blind application policy for international applicants in four years.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blin ... l_students

Note: this is for US and international students, which is what makes it rare.

https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2022/01 ... admissions
I am confused. Isn't need-based (what OP wrote about) exactly opposite of need-blind (what you are referring to)?
Note it says "full demonstrated need" - so they aren't necessarily need-blind to handing out money to all applicants (which might be what you are thinking). They are referring to need-blind ADMISSION not need-blind aid.
Need-blind admission is a term used in the United States denoting a college admission policy in which an institution does not consider an applicant's financial situation when deciding admission.
Vulcan is conflating two separate things (need-blind admissions versus Dartmouth's new press release which is stating a policy whereby students that need aid will get it without having to take out loans).

Here is the NEW press release:
https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/20 ... e-students
(Versus statement of needblind admissions which took the conversation into a left turn - press release quoted by Vulcan above added in International students in a January press release).
Last edited by SmileyFace on Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:55 pm, edited 6 times in total.
student
Posts: 6866
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by student »

an_asker wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:11 pm
Vulcan wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:03 pm
MMiroir wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:44 am Good for Dartmouth, but this seems more symbolic than anything else.
It puts them in a very select club:
There are currently only six U.S. higher education institutions that are need-blind towards all applicants, seven of which meet full demonstrated need for all applicants, including international students. These are:

- Amherst College
- Dartmouth College
- Harvard University
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
- Princeton University
- Yale University

Brown University has announced plans to move towards a need-blind application policy for international applicants in four years.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blin ... l_students

Note: this is for US and international students, which is what makes it rare.

https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2022/01 ... admissions
I am confused. Isn't need-based (what OP wrote about) exactly opposite of need-blind (what you are referring to)?
I think it is need-blind admission, so they are not taking into account your ability to pay because that they can give you need-based financial aid.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by SmileyFace »

To get back to original topic and answer OPs question: if I was need-based - of course I would rather my children not take loans (but for me question is moot).
Some stated others will pay more - note the article states the program is funded by a specific donor program (so alumni and other philanthropists are funding this).
deikel
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by deikel »

Yeah, but they don't tell you the full story

At the end of the day, they still only have a certain amount of money to give out AND they want the smartest possible to attend AND they want a high rejection rate to boost prestige

If they don't include loans anymore, then they will either have to spent more money as a scholarship of sorts OR they have to admit more folks that can pay their own full ride - most likely both.

For the person they do select to attend and needs the money its great, for the additional two they now don't admit because they rather pick rich and smart...not so much.

I don't per se have a problem with rich and smart, but statistically, that makes a very non diverse group of students - the exact group that needs a dose of 'real life' the most.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 14118
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by TomatoTomahto »

SilverGirl wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:38 pm My son is starting there as a Freshman this fall. This makes me happy! We will not be eligible for any aid.

If another kid worked as hard as my son did, then good on Dartmouth for rewarding her or him with a full ride!

As an employer, I am a little saddened to see how the work ethic has deteriorated over the past couple of decades. (Not fair to generalize, I know, this comment is specific to my situation)

As a society we need to reward our deserving youth and give them a good start in life!
+1

Congrats to your son. Your post is why I think those who espouse “skin in the game” must not have had children who were accepted to top tier schools. These kids have busted their butts. That’s their skin in the game, not student loans that will limit their choices for careers.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Nebraska_Drought
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:19 am
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

Top students are going to perform well at any school they go to. Some will have better networking based on what school they are in or graduate from, but at the end of the day, most STEM students are going to do quite well regardless, if they do well in school. Is a top engineering firm only going to look at kids graduating from Ga. Tech? No, they are going to take the top kids regardless of where they land. Internships and personality will provide another path. IMO, people get too hung up on school rankings and the anointed "prestige" of where their piece of paper comes from. I'd rather be a smart and ambitious student with zero debt and a good STEM field to get into regardless of where my piece of paper comes from.

Don't even get me started on "need based" where the only thing considered is your bank statement.....why? Why not have bundles of aid for smart kids who's parents are doing pretty good? IMO, all aid should be merit based, but that is another discussion.

The best thing any student can do today is go into a field/area/expertise where the job prospects look good and that the job prospects are paying good. I am biased towards STEM and Business degrees, but if you are looking for an affluent life, those areas have the best chances of getting you there.
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Vulcan »

SmileyFace wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:32 pm Vulcan is conflating two separate things
With treatment of international students not considered, the list of "need-blind/full-need/no-loan" schools gets significantly longer.

So I was just trying to be nice to Dartmouth ;)
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Vulcan »

Nebraska_Drought wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm Top students are going to perform well at any school they go to. Some will have better networking
...
IMO, people get too hung up on school rankings and the anointed "prestige" of where their piece of paper comes from
Absolutely. The student is the most important factor.

Second most important factor? Other students.

And some kids can certainly benefit from more stimulating peer group and higher resulting level of rigor.

You can't run a controlled experiment on this kind of thing, so you can't ever know whether or not the school made a difference.

Sometimes you can make pretty educated guesses though.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 14118
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Vulcan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:23 pm
Nebraska_Drought wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm Top students are going to perform well at any school they go to. Some will have better networking
...
IMO, people get too hung up on school rankings and the anointed "prestige" of where their piece of paper comes from
Absolutely. The student is the most important factor.

Second most important factor? Other students.

And some kids can certainly benefit from more stimulating peer group and higher resulting level of rigor.

You can't run a controlled experiment on this kind of thing, so you can't ever know whether or not the school made a difference.

Sometimes you can make pretty educated guesses though.
Yes, a controlled experiment is impossible, but I will go to my grave convinced that we made the right educational choices, beginning with private high school.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
YererMeda
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:03 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by YererMeda »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:00 pm
Vulcan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:23 pm
Nebraska_Drought wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm Top students are going to perform well at any school they go to. Some will have better networking
...
IMO, people get too hung up on school rankings and the anointed "prestige" of where their piece of paper comes from
Absolutely. The student is the most important factor.

Second most important factor? Other students.

And some kids can certainly benefit from more stimulating peer group and higher resulting level of rigor.

You can't run a controlled experiment on this kind of thing, so you can't ever know whether or not the school made a difference.

Sometimes you can make pretty educated guesses though.
Yes, a controlled experiment is impossible, but I will go to my grave convinced that we made the right educational choices, beginning with private high school.
I remember reading about this using a "natural experiment". Researchers compared outcomes of students from top schools vs. second tier schools using students who were ADMITTED to top school. One group ATTENDED top school. Another group DIDN'T ATTEND top school for various reasons and chose to attend a second tier school.

I couldn't find the results for that study but here is summary of other studies. Quiet interesting!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ge/577816/
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 14118
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by TomatoTomahto »

YererMeda wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:51 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:00 pm
Vulcan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:23 pm
Nebraska_Drought wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm Top students are going to perform well at any school they go to. Some will have better networking
...
IMO, people get too hung up on school rankings and the anointed "prestige" of where their piece of paper comes from
Absolutely. The student is the most important factor.

Second most important factor? Other students.

And some kids can certainly benefit from more stimulating peer group and higher resulting level of rigor.

You can't run a controlled experiment on this kind of thing, so you can't ever know whether or not the school made a difference.

Sometimes you can make pretty educated guesses though.
Yes, a controlled experiment is impossible, but I will go to my grave convinced that we made the right educational choices, beginning with private high school.
I remember reading about this using a "natural experiment". Researchers compared outcomes of students from top schools vs. second tier schools using students who were ADMITTED to top school. One group ATTENDED top school. Another group DIDN'T ATTEND top school for various reasons and chose to attend a second tier school.

I couldn't find the results for that study but here is summary of other studies. Quiet interesting!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ge/577816/
The results are debateable. Fwiw, we are pleased with our outcomes, and in the end, that’s all that matters. Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
YererMeda
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:03 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by YererMeda »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:15 pm
YererMeda wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:51 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:00 pm
Vulcan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:23 pm
Nebraska_Drought wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:17 pm Top students are going to perform well at any school they go to. Some will have better networking
...
IMO, people get too hung up on school rankings and the anointed "prestige" of where their piece of paper comes from
Absolutely. The student is the most important factor.

Second most important factor? Other students.

And some kids can certainly benefit from more stimulating peer group and higher resulting level of rigor.

You can't run a controlled experiment on this kind of thing, so you can't ever know whether or not the school made a difference.

Sometimes you can make pretty educated guesses though.
Yes, a controlled experiment is impossible, but I will go to my grave convinced that we made the right educational choices, beginning with private high school.
I remember reading about this using a "natural experiment". Researchers compared outcomes of students from top schools vs. second tier schools using students who were ADMITTED to top school. One group ATTENDED top school. Another group DIDN'T ATTEND top school for various reasons and chose to attend a second tier school.

I couldn't find the results for that study but here is summary of other studies. Quiet interesting!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ge/577816/
The results are debateable. Fwiw, we are pleased with our outcomes, and in the end, that’s all that matters. Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I was not implying anything there. I simply find these kind of studies interesting and thought it will add value to the discussion. Also let's not confuse average statements reported in studies with anecdotal evidence or personal experience.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 14118
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by TomatoTomahto »

YererMeda wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:33 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:15 pm
YererMeda wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:51 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:00 pm
Vulcan wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:23 pm
Absolutely. The student is the most important factor.

Second most important factor? Other students.

And some kids can certainly benefit from more stimulating peer group and higher resulting level of rigor.

You can't run a controlled experiment on this kind of thing, so you can't ever know whether or not the school made a difference.

Sometimes you can make pretty educated guesses though.
Yes, a controlled experiment is impossible, but I will go to my grave convinced that we made the right educational choices, beginning with private high school.
I remember reading about this using a "natural experiment". Researchers compared outcomes of students from top schools vs. second tier schools using students who were ADMITTED to top school. One group ATTENDED top school. Another group DIDN'T ATTEND top school for various reasons and chose to attend a second tier school.

I couldn't find the results for that study but here is summary of other studies. Quiet interesting!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ge/577816/
The results are debateable. Fwiw, we are pleased with our outcomes, and in the end, that’s all that matters. Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I was not implying anything there. I simply find these kind of studies interesting and thought it will add value to the discussion. Also let's not confuse average statements reported in studies with anecdotal evidence or personal experience.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make it seem as though you were implying something. There are so many confounding variables: (okay, you were accepted at Harvard but chose to attend Michigan; how do you differ from the next student who chose to pass on Harvard acceptance and attended Michigan? Family background? Finances? Major of interest? Desire for advanced degrees? And so on)

It is interesting, but as so often happens on BH, many have their story and they’re sticking to it.

I have my story, which might not apply to anyone other than me, and I’m sticking to it 😁
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Charon
Posts: 473
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by Charon »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:40 pm Sorry, I didn’t mean to make it seem as though you were implying something. There are so many confounding variables: (okay, you were accepted at Harvard but chose to attend Michigan; how do you differ from the next student who chose to pass on Harvard acceptance and attended Michigan? Family background? Finances? Major of interest? Desire for advanced degrees? And so on)

It is interesting, but as so often happens on BH, many have their story and they’re sticking to it.

I have my story, which might not apply to anyone other than me, and I’m sticking to it 😁
You're missing the point, which is that we're comparing studies to stories. We're not comparing your anecdote to someone else's, and your anecdote is limited by the inability to compare to a counterfactual.

And yes, there are some confounding variables. Thankfully, the studies cited in that Atlantic article are by economists, who have a lot of experience with confounding variables.
GP813
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:11 am

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by GP813 »

The endowments that many of the Ivy league schools have are obscene, they should have never made undergraduate students take loans, it's about time they change this policy.
Last edited by GP813 on Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
user9532
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by user9532 »

Our daughter is accumulating student loans at Darmouth Medical School. May be they should also give more financial aid to med students. Their fee is higher than manyt other med schools.
AnEngineer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by AnEngineer »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:15 pm Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I wonder how the strong feeling on the subject correlate with whether the money is of consequence when needed.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 14118
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by TomatoTomahto »

AnEngineer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:00 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:15 pm Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I wonder how the strong feeling on the subject correlate with whether the money is of consequence when needed.
I apologize for the extent that I’ve derailed this thread. Fwiw, there is no question in my mind that the private high school was transformative. The ROI on the Ivy education is off the map. Whether results would have been equally strong elsewhere is an experiment we thankfully did not have to submit him to.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
AnEngineer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by AnEngineer »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:12 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:00 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:15 pm Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I wonder how the strong feeling on the subject correlate with whether the money is of consequence when needed.
I apologize for the extent that I’ve derailed this thread. Fwiw, there is no question in my mind that the private high school was transformative. The ROI on the Ivy education is off the map. Whether results would have been equally strong elsewhere is an experiment we thankfully did not have to submit him to.
Setting that aside, I expect students and colleges that have no loan based aid like this will benefit as they become actually cheaper than other colleges such that the ROI question becomes moot for some students. Good to know about.
User avatar
winterfan
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:06 am

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by winterfan »

I think it's a great move. I'm very adamant that my child does not incur any student loan debt, especially for undergrad.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 14118
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by TomatoTomahto »

AnEngineer wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:14 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:12 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:00 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:15 pm Thankfully, the money is of no consequence.
I wonder how the strong feeling on the subject correlate with whether the money is of consequence when needed.
I apologize for the extent that I’ve derailed this thread. Fwiw, there is no question in my mind that the private high school was transformative. The ROI on the Ivy education is off the map. Whether results would have been equally strong elsewhere is an experiment we thankfully did not have to submit him to.
Setting that aside, I expect students and colleges that have no loan based aid like this will benefit as they become actually cheaper than other colleges such that the ROI question becomes moot for some students. Good to know about.
Also anecdotal, but higher n, as my son who attended Yale (which has long emphasized grants and need-based aid sufficient to attend without loans) contrasts the career choices made by his classmates with those of my son who attended Rutgers. There are career options that are not sustainable if you have a large student loan hanging over your head. Kids with loans also are more likely not to finish their degree, which hits them with double the woes.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
bltn
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by bltn »

I used to question whether the networking benefit of attending elite private colleges was really was worth the extreme cost of these schools, if it exists at all.

Then as I was reading this thread last night, I thought about my daughter s current situation. After attending private eastern universities for college, graduate school, medical school, and residency, she is starting a job this summer that was created for her at one of the top medical schools in the country. This opportunity was made possible by one of her mentors in medical school who know works at the school to which she will be going.

While I still believe that a student s success in life is mostly based on his innate ability and ambition to work hard, occasionally there may be a situation where networking may be beneficial. Networking from ones education experience is probably more useful in finding jobs in academia than in some other fields.
vandering
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:01 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by vandering »

I've got two children, one of whom is a 4th year med student in SE. Other is business major 4th year in SE. I was Early Decision Dartmouth in the early 80"s Please understand this is Hanover, NH. The reason I never encouraged my children to Ivies is because I found it completely lacking in substance. If your child is going legal or political it may be worthwhile however if your child wants to pursue something useful like medicine bioengineering computer sciences etc maybe MIT is an option but the rest are silly. I believe that's why all these billionaires "dropped out".
vandering
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:01 pm

Re: Dartmouth College is ending student loan requirements

Post by vandering »

I've got two children, one of whom is a 4th year med student in SE. Other is business major 4th year in SE. I was Early Decision Dartmouth in the early 80"s Please understand this is Hanover, NH. The reason I never encouraged my children to Ivies is because I found it completely lacking in substance. If your child is going legal or political it may be worthwhile however if your child wants to pursue something useful like medicine bioengineering computer sciences etc maybe MIT is an option but the rest are silly. I believe that's why all these billionaires "dropped out".
Post Reply