What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

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technovelist
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What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

My mother, who is in her mid-90s, has decided to give some money to my brothers and me now rather than having us wait until we inherit.
I have trading authority on her Fidelity account and liquidated some positions to raise the money.
Then she added us as bill-paying recipients and initiated a payment to each of us.
She got a call from Fidelity asking a couple of questions:

1. Did she initiate those payments?
2. What was the money intended for?

To the first, she answered "yes".
To the second, she answered "I want them to have some of my money before I die".

Then the Fidelity representative said that they would continue with their "review" of these transactions.

So what exactly are they reviewing at this point? They contacted her to ask if she did it, which was understandable because we all know there are cases where children abuse their parents financially. Then they asked what the purpose of the transfers was, which in my opinion is none of their business, but she answered that anyway.

Has anyone else been through this, and do you know what they are doing? I know most people here use Vanguard but there must be some Fidelity customers here.

Thanks.
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CAsage
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by CAsage »

I would bless Fidelity for protecting the Ancient One from fraudsters, and be glad she did not answer "to bail my grandson out of jail in Barbados" ... and I'm guessing that this transaction will zip through on the next business day. Assume it's just standard business, check Tuesday or so to see if it's proceeding. Not real experience, just a guess. Setting up a new bill-pay can take a bit of time.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by nedsaid »

What I can tell you is that preventing elder abuse is a big issue in the financial industry now. The regulators are interested and they are putting pressure on companies like the big Advisory and big Brokerage firms to do what they can to prevent elder abuse and report it when it happens.
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technovelist
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

Yes, I get the elder abuse issue, and good for Fidelity for checking on that.
But my question is what else do they need to know after she explained that she had indeed done it and why she did it?
Of course if it goes through without further delay there will be no problem, so I guess I should just wait a couple of days before contacting them further.
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ResearchMed
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by ResearchMed »

CAsage wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:06 pm I would bless Fidelity for protecting the Ancient One from fraudsters, and be glad she did not answer "to bail my grandson out of jail in Barbados" ... and I'm guessing that this transaction will zip through on the next business day. Assume it's just standard business, check Tuesday or so to see if it's proceeding. Not real experience, just a guess. Setting up a new bill-pay can take a bit of time.

Fidelity is concerned about things like this, or even that someone might be telling her what to say, and perhaps she didn't fully understand the implications, that the money would be "gone!" or such.

Or they may want to make sure that was really *her* on the phone in the first place.

She is in her mid-90's, and they can see that. Her account is probably flagged in some way, along with other "very elders".

The protections against elder financial abuse have gotten better, although there will never be perfection. And the better the protections, the more intrusive it might seem.

You, I, most of us here, probably have no idea how clever some of the scams are... but the financial institutions are all too familiar with them, be it from their own experience or from professional sources, etc.

They also are typically watching for signs of confusion, it someone is acting erratically, even if no coercion is suspected.
Recently, there has been some emphasis on having a "Trusted Other" be listed with contact information, with permission of course, in case something seems "off"...

We are mid/late 70s, and I'm sure we are flagged by now, as well. I have very coherent conversations with our TIAA advisor (well, *I* think they are coherent!), but I'm sure he is watching for any "signs". They may even have a checklist.
It's to protect us from financial harm that many not be reversible.

This is all "good".

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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by RetiredAL »

technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:26 pm Yes, I get the elder abuse issue, and good for Fidelity for checking on that.
But my question is what else do they need to know after she explained that she had indeed done it and why she did it?
Of course if it goes through without further delay there will be no problem, so I guess I should just wait a couple of days before contacting them further.
Per Fidelity's policy, it probably not a 1-person checkoff if the pay-pay checks are greater than some threshhold. The telephone interviewer just hands over his data to someone else for further examines it.

CAsage wrote: "bless Fidelity for protecting the Ancient One from fraudsters". +1 to that.

50 years ago, DW worked in a bank for 1 year. Whenever there was a large withdrawal was being made, policy was to ask what is this for and get a supervisor involved. She stopped 2 rip-offs in that year.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by 123 »

Setting up a bill pay (recurring payment) to a non-commercial individual recipient is unusual. Since the process doesn't leave a clear paper trail (Fidelity doesn't know who was behind the keyboard) it's clearly something that Fidelity should have followed-up on, especially for an elderly account holder. They did a great job.

Another reason to have investigated further would be if the account holder had never used bill pay on the account previously.

I would suspect that they would monitor subsequent bill-pay transactions to see if they remain consistent with the explanation they received.

Most people would handle personal gift issues by writing a check on the account. That would also be consistent with the age of the account holder.

I am not saying that there is anything suspicious about what was done, only that there were likely a number of potential issues that triggered their review.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by drzzzzz »

My parents wrote out 5 figure checks to two children and two grandchildren about 1.5 years back and Fidelity called us to verify after they were deposited at other institutions. Two of the banks/credit union (out of 3) also put holds on the checks till cleared by Fidelity.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by secondcor521 »

I think what she is doing is perfectly reasonable, and the way you handled the transactions was also reasonable.

I would bet that Fidelity can see that you (rather than she) did the sales transactions (either by you using your login credentials, or your PC/laptop, or your IP address). Again, perfectly reasonable, but it could also be an indicator of elder abuse.

I think elder abuse is more commonly done by family members rather than strangers, so I can see Fidelity's point of view here too in doing their due diligence to protect their clients.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

secondcor521 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:35 pm I think what she is doing is perfectly reasonable, and the way you handled the transactions was also reasonable.

I would bet that Fidelity can see that you (rather than she) did the sales transactions (either by you using your login credentials, or your PC/laptop, or your IP address). Again, perfectly reasonable, but it could also be an indicator of elder abuse.

I think elder abuse is more commonly done by family members rather than strangers, so I can see Fidelity's point of view here too in doing their due diligence to protect their clients.
Yes, I was logged in under my credentials when I did the sale, and I'm sure they saw that.
I've done other sales in her account for her under my credentials when she wanted to give me some money in the past, but in that case she transferred money to her checking account and wrote checks to me for the amount in question. They didn't question that as far as I know, but the amounts were smaller.

With any luck they are now convinced it's legitimate and will let it go this week as planned.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by Parkinglotracer »

I have had financial institutions slow money transfer requests in the idea of helping me prevent fraud or tax mis steps. Most of the time telephone calls re verifying the instructions and identity have helped. One time vanguard stopped a transfer of a jointly held (w/ survivorship) account after the death of a family member as they said the transfer may have tax implications. After a short discussion on my ownership of the account and encouraging them to do what was asked they completed the transfer. Guess you have to thank them for trying to prevent fraud or other buffoonery. Especially with elderly accounts.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

Last year I wrote 5 figure checks to son and daughter-in-law for birthdays,call it early inheritance, Fidelity emailed me and asked that I call in for verification. On the first call I was on hold for about 20 minutes, not sure what they were checking.

I am on the young side of very elderly.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by Stinky »

TheGreyingDuke wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:21 am I am on the young side of very elderly.
I like your comment much better than “I am on the very elderly side of being young.” :twisted:
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by bling »

hmmm, unless you need the money now there are at least two downsides of doing this:

1) you have to sell and realize capital gains vs step-up cost basis.
2) gift tax limit is currently 16k per year per individual, gotta pay taxes above that. (edit: no taxes if you file IRS exemption, looks like lifetime limit around $12 million).
Last edited by bling on Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by lazynovice »

bling wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:28 am hmmm, unless you need the money now there are at least two downsides of doing this:

2) gift tax limit is currently 16k per year per individual, gotta pay taxes above that.
No you do not. Anything above that requires a special IRS form that shows part of the lifetime exemption has been used. It doesn’t mean anyone owes taxes.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

bling wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:28 am hmmm, unless you need the money now there are at least two downsides of doing this:

1) you have to sell and realize capital gains vs step-up cost basis.
2) gift tax limit is currently 16k per year per individual, gotta pay taxes above that. (edit: no taxes if you file IRS exemption, looks like lifetime limit around $12 million).
1. The sales were of two different securities, one of which had gains and the other losses. The net tax effect was a small loss that can be written off against income this year.
2. She has plenty of room left in the lifetime estate tax exemption.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by an_asker »

technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:02 pm [...]
Then the Fidelity representative said that they would continue with their "review" of these transactions.

So what exactly are they reviewing at this point? They contacted her to ask if she did it, which was understandable because we all know there are cases where children abuse their parents financially. Then they asked what the purpose of the transfers was, which in my opinion is none of their business, but she answered that anyway.
[...]
I am curious whether either your mother or you asked Fidelity how long the review would take.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by Colorado13 »

June is Elder Abuse Awareness Month. Yes, for real. So Fidelity is likely doing due diligence in questioning the transaction. This can be frustrating for you although is intended to prevent account holders from potential fraud and misuse of funds.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:26 pm Yes, I get the elder abuse issue, and good for Fidelity for checking on that.
But my question is what else do they need to know after she explained that she had indeed done it and why she did it?
Of course if it goes through without further delay there will be no problem, so I guess I should just wait a couple of days before contacting them further.
I give my children “early inheritances” annually. I usually do so some time after April taxes have been paid, but I intentionally don’t do it by any particular date to avoid the issue (underlined fragment in quote) where it sounds like there is some urgency to the transaction.

Good for Fidelity (you can mark your calendar that I’ve praised Fidelity, something I don’t do often) :D
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Since they record calls maybe a second person up the chain has to listen to it? Just guessing.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by nisiprius »

I think it means that the person on the phone doesn't have the authority to approve the transaction and doesn't have the authority to decide if there is enough information to approve it.
Last edited by nisiprius on Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by JazzTime »

123 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:56 pm Setting up a bill pay (recurring payment) to a non-commercial individual recipient is unusual.
I agree. It would never occur to me to transfer funds to an individual via "bill pay."

I've never run into any hiccups with Fidelity transferring funds. In fact, I always thought it was a bit too easy to transfer large sums of money. For that reason, I put my accounts in lockdown mode. That even blocks me from doing transfers, including Roth conversions, until I remove the lockdown

I've written large gift checks to son and DIL for years as well as set up very large wire transfers for real estate transactions. Never a hitch.

One easy way to transfer funds is to set up a joint account with the person you want to gift funds. So I set up joint accounts with son (me and son) and with DIL (me and DIL). I then transfer funds from my account to the joint accounts. Easy peasy. Transfer is viewed as a transfer from me to me since my SSN is on all the accounts. I then inform son and DIL, and they can then transfer those funds from the joint accounts to their individual accounts. The latter is viewed as a transfer from son to son and DIL to DIL.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

JazzTime wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:05 pm
123 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:56 pm Setting up a bill pay (recurring payment) to a non-commercial individual recipient is unusual.
I agree. It would never occur to me to transfer funds to an individual via "bill pay."
I looked for guidance on the web site on how to do transfers and couldn't find anything other than bill pay.
JazzTime wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:05 pm
I've never run into any hiccups with Fidelity transferring funds. In fact, I always thought it was a bit too easy to transfer large sums of money. For that reason, I put my accounts in lockdown mode. That even blocks me from doing transfers, including Roth conversions, until I remove the lockdown

I've written large gift checks to son and DIL for years as well as set up very large wire transfers for real estate transactions. Never a hitch.

One easy way to transfer funds is to set up a joint account with the person you want to gift funds. So I set up joint accounts with son (me and son) and with DIL (me and DIL).
I then transfer funds from my account to the joint accounts. Easy peasy. Transfer is viewed as a transfer from me to me since my SSN is on all the accounts. I then inform son and DIL, and they can then transfer those funds from the joint accounts to their individual accounts. The latter is viewed as a transfer from son to son and DIL to DIL.
That seems much more complicated to me, and this isn't expected to be a recurring event.

If it turns out to be recurring, maybe we will set that up. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

an_asker wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:17 am
technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:02 pm [...]
Then the Fidelity representative said that they would continue with their "review" of these transactions.

So what exactly are they reviewing at this point? They contacted her to ask if she did it, which was understandable because we all know there are cases where children abuse their parents financially. Then they asked what the purpose of the transfers was, which in my opinion is none of their business, but she answered that anyway.
[...]
I am curious whether either your mother or you asked Fidelity how long the review would take.
The representative indicated that the payments should be made by the expected date, which is this coming Friday. So we didn't ask because clearly it shouldn't take longer than that.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:15 am
technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:26 pm Yes, I get the elder abuse issue, and good for Fidelity for checking on that.
But my question is what else do they need to know after she explained that she had indeed done it and why she did it?
Of course if it goes through without further delay there will be no problem, so I guess I should just wait a couple of days before contacting them further.
I give my children “early inheritances” annually. I usually do so some time after April taxes have been paid, but I intentionally don’t do it by any particular date to avoid the issue (underlined fragment in quote) where it sounds like there is some urgency to the transaction.

Good for Fidelity (you can mark your calendar that I’ve praised Fidelity, something I don’t do often) :D
There's really no urgency for the funds, but it would be nice not to have to be concerned about the outcome.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by celia »

technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:02 pm I have trading authority on her Fidelity account and liquidated some positions to raise the money. Then she added us as bill-paying recipients and initiated a payment to each of us.
What do you mean by “bill-paying recipients”? Did she add you to the list of “bills” she is paying? Or does she expect you to use some of the money to pay some of her bills? Both scenarios sound strange when she could have just written you a check. That would have probably given her better records if all her money flows through her checking account.

Will she be able to look at her next statement and figure out where her money went?

I can certainly see some irregularities here and would have called her too, if I was her custodian.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by whodidntante »

If somebody were to use their trading privileges to sell and send themselves a big honking check out of my account, I hope Fidelity will take a few days to be skeptical of it. That's not weird.

The weird thing is why it takes stock trades T+2 days to settle. In 2022. With high-speed digital computers capable of talking to each other with bandwidth unthinkable in 1930. :P
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

celia wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 pm
technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:02 pm I have trading authority on her Fidelity account and liquidated some positions to raise the money. Then she added us as bill-paying recipients and initiated a payment to each of us.
What do you mean by “bill-paying recipients”? Did she add you to the list of “bills” she is paying? Or does she expect you to use some of the money to pay some of her bills? Both scenarios sound strange when she could have just written you a check. That would have probably given her better records if all her money flows through her checking account.
The Fidelity "bill-paying" service can be used to transfer money to anyone you want to transfer it to. It doesn't have to be a commercial account, and there is no requirement that there is a bill to be paid. That was the simplest way I could see for her to give us the money that she said she wanted to give us.

She could not have written us a check because she doesn't have check-writing on her Fidelity account.
celia wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 pm Will she be able to look at her next statement and figure out where her money went?
Of course she will be able to look at her next statement and figure out where her money went, because it will say that money was transferred to us, her children, via the bill-paying service.
celia wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 pm I can certainly see some irregularities here and would have called her too, if I was her custodian.
I wasn't objecting to Fidelity's call, which was perfectly reasonable.
My question is what they are still reviewing after they made the call and she told them it was okay.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by 8foot7 »

I agree that "continuing the review" means the person on the phone had no authority other than to document the call made. I agree that it's a reasonable safeguard as well, especially if the account didn't have check writing, had very few withdrawals, and newly added bill pay payees were used to process the withdrawal. But I also think it'd be nice, if they're going to hold up transactions for this type of verification, if the person calling to make sure everything is legit also had the power to push the green button upon satisfactory details being given by the client. One assumes the call is recorded as well. There is a reasonably fine line between protecting a client, protecting the firm, and accessing my gosh darn money in the way I please.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

8foot7 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:47 am I agree that "continuing the review" means the person on the phone had no authority other than to document the call made. I agree that it's a reasonable safeguard as well, especially if the account didn't have check writing, had very few withdrawals, and newly added bill pay payees were used to process the withdrawal. But I also think it'd be nice, if they're going to hold up transactions for this type of verification, if the person calling to make sure everything is legit also had the power to push the green button upon satisfactory details being given by the client. One assumes the call is recorded as well. There is a reasonably fine line between protecting a client, protecting the firm, and accessing my gosh darn money in the way I please.
Exactly.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

celia wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:31 pm
technovelist wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:02 pm I have trading authority on her Fidelity account and liquidated some positions to raise the money. Then she added us as bill-paying recipients and initiated a payment to each of us.
What do you mean by “bill-paying recipients”? Did she add you to the list of “bills” she is paying? Or does she expect you to use some of the money to pay some of her bills? Both scenarios sound strange when she could have just written you a check. That would have probably given her better records if all her money flows through her checking account.

Will she be able to look at her next statement and figure out where her money went?

I can certainly see some irregularities here and would have called her too, if I was her custodian.
I do this all the time to make gifts to our kids. It saves me writing checks, addressing envelopes, adding postage, and also provides a handy record of the transaction. All in all, it’s just easier.

That said, I think it’s a good thing Fidelity followed up.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

My bank required a hold on the money because it was beyond their immediate clearing amount. This isn't a problem in the sense that I need the money immediately, because I don't. But it is very mysterious why they would not just transfer it from one Fidelity account to another, especially because they asked for my Fidelity account number during the bill-pay setup.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by nisiprius »

An irritating and unexplained nuisance, but no worse?
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:14 pm An irritating and unexplained nuisance, but no worse?
Yes, that sums it up pretty well.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by anon_investor »

technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:52 pm Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

My bank required a hold on the money because it was beyond their immediate clearing amount. This isn't a problem in the sense that I need the money immediately, because I don't. But it is very mysterious why they would not just transfer it from one Fidelity account to another, especially because they asked for my Fidelity account number during the bill-pay setup.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
Is there a way to gift funds via Fidelity? I know at Vanguard you can gift holdings to another person's Vanguard account, and you can gift holdings in a money market fund.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by pseudoiterative »

whodidntante wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:51 pm The weird thing is why it takes stock trades T+2 days to settle. In 2022. With high-speed digital computers capable of talking to each other with bandwidth unthinkable in 1930
guessing: maybe to fix that, each company involved in the overall transaction would need need to redesign and reimplement all their software and hardware, and redesign their surrounding operational procedures, and retrain all their staff. maybe they'd need to get some laws or regulations adjusted so they could remain compliant with massively reduced settlement times. each company likely couldn't do this unilaterally, they'd have to do this in some kind of coordinated way with all the other companies and vendors they need to integrate with.

sounds like a lot of complexity and cost and risk. what's the upside? will it win them new revenue or profits if they start the project and actually manage to deliver it successfully?
UNCHEEL
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by UNCHEEL »

technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:52 pm Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
If you use Bill Pay, that's what happens. Bill Pay cuts a check. If you mother had called Fidelity directly, she could have had the funds transferred directly to another Fidelity account. But, that's is own PIA (call, be on hold, authentication, provide a supporting letter of instructions, etc), especially if you're 95.

I've done it with an estate distribution where some of the beneficiaries were Fidelity customers, but others weren't. (I didn't use Bill Pay for any of them and the other got checks, as you did.)

On another estate, outside of Fidelity, I DID use Bill Pay for some of the distributions, and, like you, a check was issued and mailed.
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technovelist
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

whodidntante wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:51 pm If somebody were to use their trading privileges to sell and send themselves a big honking check out of my account, I hope Fidelity will take a few days to be skeptical of it. That's not weird.

The weird thing is why it takes stock trades T+2 days to settle. In 2022. With high-speed digital computers capable of talking to each other with bandwidth unthinkable in 1930. :P
I believe it used to be T+5 until the 1990's, so there is some progress.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
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technovelist
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

anon_investor wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:01 pm
technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:52 pm Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

My bank required a hold on the money because it was beyond their immediate clearing amount. This isn't a problem in the sense that I need the money immediately, because I don't. But it is very mysterious why they would not just transfer it from one Fidelity account to another, especially because they asked for my Fidelity account number during the bill-pay setup.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
Is there a way to gift funds via Fidelity? I know at Vanguard you can gift holdings to another person's Vanguard account, and you can gift holdings in a money market fund.
There may be but we couldn't find it on the website.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
typical.investor
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by typical.investor »

technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:52 pm Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

My bank required a hold on the money because it was beyond their immediate clearing amount. This isn't a problem in the sense that I need the money immediately, because I don't. But it is very mysterious why they would not just transfer it from one Fidelity account to another, especially because they asked for my Fidelity account number during the bill-pay setup.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
I think they ask for the account number first and then make a determination as to whether they can transfer electronically.

If they can’t make an electronic transfer, they send a check. And they leave the account info displayed in bill pay to help you identify the account correctly.

That’s my experience with bill pay but at Schwab and Wells Fargo.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by lazynovice »

technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:54 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:01 pm
technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:52 pm Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

My bank required a hold on the money because it was beyond their immediate clearing amount. This isn't a problem in the sense that I need the money immediately, because I don't. But it is very mysterious why they would not just transfer it from one Fidelity account to another, especially because they asked for my Fidelity account number during the bill-pay setup.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
Is there a way to gift funds via Fidelity? I know at Vanguard you can gift holdings to another person's Vanguard account, and you can gift holdings in a money market fund.
There may be but we couldn't find it on the website.
Here are the forms:

https://www.fidelity.com/customer-servi ... ift-shares

Or this:

https://www.fidelity.com/accounts/pdf/transfer.pdf

Neither option is truly electronic.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by samsoes »

RetiredAL wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:46 pm 50 years ago, DW worked in a bank for 1 year. Whenever there was a large withdrawal was being made, policy was to ask what is this for and get a supervisor involved. She stopped 2 rip-offs in that year.
Was there ever a wrong answer to that question which the bankers would refuse the withdraw? Like, "I just got a hot tip for the 4th race at the horse track?" What business is it of the bankers if an "elder" wants to spend his/her loot in a way that a bank employee would deem unwise?
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by lazynovice »

samsoes wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:35 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:46 pm 50 years ago, DW worked in a bank for 1 year. Whenever there was a large withdrawal was being made, policy was to ask what is this for and get a supervisor involved. She stopped 2 rip-offs in that year.
Was there ever a wrong answer to that question which the bankers would refuse the withdraw? Like, "I just got a hot tip for the 4th race at the horse track?" What business is it of the bankers if an "elder" wants to spend his/her loot in a way that a bank employee would deem unwise?
They don’t refuse when they suspect elder abuse, but they can ask questions and stall. In some cases they can get a trusted family member involved. Protecting clients from scams and fraud is something most banks do whether they have a legal responsibility to do so or not.

If a client is wiring a large sum of money to a new account “to get their grandchild out of jail” you can bet a financial institution will know this is a common scam and do what they can to stop it.
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by capran »

I recently did a quarter mil transfer from Vanguard to my bank so I could purchase a boat. No questions asked, done on line. Turning 70 in a few weeks, so maybe I got in just under the wire. LOL
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technovelist
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

lazynovice wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:24 pm
technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:54 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:01 pm
technovelist wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:52 pm Update:

I got a check today, apparently drawn on my mother's Fidelity account. It didn't say it was from Fidelity, and wasn't an official check, but it was from UMB Bank, which is their bank.

What I was expecting was a transfer from her Fidelity account to mine, which of course would have been available funds immediately.

My bank required a hold on the money because it was beyond their immediate clearing amount. This isn't a problem in the sense that I need the money immediately, because I don't. But it is very mysterious why they would not just transfer it from one Fidelity account to another, especially because they asked for my Fidelity account number during the bill-pay setup.

So the reason I'm posting this is just to let everyone know the result, and how this seems to be managed by Fidelity.
Is there a way to gift funds via Fidelity? I know at Vanguard you can gift holdings to another person's Vanguard account, and you can gift holdings in a money market fund.
There may be but we couldn't find it on the website.
Here are the forms:

https://www.fidelity.com/customer-servi ... ift-shares

Or this:

https://www.fidelity.com/accounts/pdf/transfer.pdf

Neither option is truly electronic.
Thanks, I'll keep that information handy in case this comes up again.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
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technovelist
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

capran wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:16 pm I recently did a quarter mil transfer from Vanguard to my bank so I could purchase a boat. No questions asked, done on line. Turning 70 in a few weeks, so maybe I got in just under the wire. LOL
Maybe, or maybe it was the fact that you were transferring to your own bank account rather than someone else's.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
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technovelist
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Re: What is Fidelity "reviewing" in this situation?

Post by technovelist »

lazynovice wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:47 pm
samsoes wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:35 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:46 pm 50 years ago, DW worked in a bank for 1 year. Whenever there was a large withdrawal was being made, policy was to ask what is this for and get a supervisor involved. She stopped 2 rip-offs in that year.
Was there ever a wrong answer to that question which the bankers would refuse the withdraw? Like, "I just got a hot tip for the 4th race at the horse track?" What business is it of the bankers if an "elder" wants to spend his/her loot in a way that a bank employee would deem unwise?
They don’t refuse when they suspect elder abuse, but they can ask questions and stall. In some cases they can get a trusted family member involved. Protecting clients from scams and fraud is something most banks do whether they have a legal responsibility to do so or not.

If a client is wiring a large sum of money to a new account “to get their grandchild out of jail” you can bet a financial institution will know this is a common scam and do what they can to stop it.
Yes, I agree that would undoubtedly set off the alarms at any financial institution, as it should.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
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