New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
WGP3
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:58 am

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by WGP3 »

Congrats! Take it, family is important. Also see if you can spread it out over a few months vs taking it all at once; depending on your work situation that might be a better way to use it.
Nearly A Moose
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:28 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Nearly A Moose »

anon_investor wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:35 pm
Nearly A Moose wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:40 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:24 pm
Nearly A Moose wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:14 pm Probably piling on but will admit I haven’t read the whole chain. Take the long leave if at all possible. I’m a partner in a huge law firm, and I took the max (12 weeks) for our third. Much longer than I took with our other others. I don’t regret it one bit and suffered zero professional issues, either internally or with clients (although in reality I probably worked 20% time during those months). They’re only young once, and it’s a great way to spend time with your family. Just manage it well internally — be clear on the timeframe, make sure someone is covering everything you’d be doing, delegate to your subordinates as much as possible (it’s great training for them), and if appropriate for your position make it clear you can be reached if someone really needs you. Congratulations!
I would be interested to know if associates at your firm actually take paternity leave? Does your firm take steps to make sure associates are not penalized by taking paternity leave? (reducing billable hour requirements, etc.)
I have more line of sight into the associates who work directly in my group, all of whom happen to be women, but we’ve basically nonstop had someone on parental leave (including me) over the past several years, and a number of our people at all levels are on a reduced hours track, including several who have or are advancing. I don’t know what happens in our firm more broadly, but the messaging on this being acceptable is very strong. I have actively encouraged everyone who asks to take as long a leave as they can. In the course of a law career, it’s a few months over many years. I’ll also admit we have an extremely supportive culture within my practice about things like this.
That is good your group thinks that way. My practice group at my old firm was not like that 6+ years ago. Part of the reason I ended up going in-house.
Bummer to hear that. It’s definitely a long term investment in people. But that’s what pays off long term…
Pardon typos, I'm probably using my fat thumbs on a tiny phone.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15111
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by anon_investor »

Nearly A Moose wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 11:19 am
anon_investor wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:35 pm
Nearly A Moose wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:40 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:24 pm
Nearly A Moose wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:14 pm Probably piling on but will admit I haven’t read the whole chain. Take the long leave if at all possible. I’m a partner in a huge law firm, and I took the max (12 weeks) for our third. Much longer than I took with our other others. I don’t regret it one bit and suffered zero professional issues, either internally or with clients (although in reality I probably worked 20% time during those months). They’re only young once, and it’s a great way to spend time with your family. Just manage it well internally — be clear on the timeframe, make sure someone is covering everything you’d be doing, delegate to your subordinates as much as possible (it’s great training for them), and if appropriate for your position make it clear you can be reached if someone really needs you. Congratulations!
I would be interested to know if associates at your firm actually take paternity leave? Does your firm take steps to make sure associates are not penalized by taking paternity leave? (reducing billable hour requirements, etc.)
I have more line of sight into the associates who work directly in my group, all of whom happen to be women, but we’ve basically nonstop had someone on parental leave (including me) over the past several years, and a number of our people at all levels are on a reduced hours track, including several who have or are advancing. I don’t know what happens in our firm more broadly, but the messaging on this being acceptable is very strong. I have actively encouraged everyone who asks to take as long a leave as they can. In the course of a law career, it’s a few months over many years. I’ll also admit we have an extremely supportive culture within my practice about things like this.
That is good your group thinks that way. My practice group at my old firm was not like that 6+ years ago. Part of the reason I ended up going in-house.
Bummer to hear that. It’s definitely a long term investment in people. But that’s what pays off long term…
It worked out for the best, very happy in-house, great pay and benefits and amazing work life balance. Everyone takes their full paternity leave at my megacorp.
vp89
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:29 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by vp89 »

I took all the time that was available with no guilt or hesitation.
EddyB
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by EddyB »

DoubleComma wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:17 am
margaritaville wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:55 am
mervinj7 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:49 am I completely disagree. Our VP is on maternity leave right now for 4 months. I don't think anybody is questioning her commitment to the company. I think it's heavily dependent on the company culture and the procedures they have in place for planned parental leave.
I believe there are some companies where the culture supports work/life balance, but from what I have seen working with very large corporations, it isn't common. Is the example you mentioned at a megacorp?
I'm prepared to have the BH flamethrower pointed right at me...but calling it work life balance is part of the issue. To me this creates a vision of a scale where one side is personal time and the other is work time and two don't mix but need to balance.

In the team I lead we look at it more like work life intergation.

For most white collar mega corp carears its hard to seperate work from life and the drive to seperate the two creates more frustration than it eliminates. I have chose to accept that work is part of life, you need to be able to mix the two freely to find a point that you get the best out of both.

Example, today I'll sneak away for 2 hours for a kids school ceramony, I'm not taking PTO, I'm just going because its the right thing to me. In excange, when my phone rang at 6AM this morning because something on the East Coast just bubble over and I need to enable an action, that to is just part of it.

Another great example, I don't for one minute have an issue taking a 10 minute mental break mid day to read the news, check BH, or just check out...but if I was trying to create balance that would mean I couldn't do that during work time as its company time, right?

I advoacte to my direct reports all the time, the goal is a good work/life integration. Balance sets you up for frustration.
I’m pretty sure you’re describing a widely-recognized style of “work-life balance” (at least as I’ve understood the term in my industry).
3000
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by 3000 »

Take it. You won't be letting anyone down or leaving anyone hanging. You just had a child. It may look weird if you don't take it.
humbledinvestor
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by humbledinvestor »

Please please take this benefit. You will enjoy it, your family will appreciate it. When I worked for a FAANG in 2013, this type of benefit did not exist. I barely had any vacation and took 6 unpaid days. I did get time to spend with my child after work but I wish I had paternity. Since then most large companies are offering paternity.

Your megacorp will survive, your job will be fine.

Some mentioned seeing if can be spread out. That is also an excellent alternative.
Take it, enjoy it.
Afty
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Afty »

Several years ago when my daughter was born, I worked for a Big Tech company that at the time gave 12 weeks of paternity leave. At my org's holiday party, I was chatting with my Director about our new baby and how I had just come back from 4 weeks of paternity leave. He insisted that I take my remaining 8 weeks, and talked about how much he treasured the time he had taken off when his child was born. This really stuck with me as an example of leadership setting a good example of work-life balance for the team, and I stayed on that team for a long time, probably longer than I should have.

Take your paternity leave. Work will still be there when you get back.
User avatar
gatorking
Posts: 1495
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: MA

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by gatorking »

Californiastate wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:50 am I remember the first day I heard about paternity leave. I blew and O ring. Had we really become that soft?
And what do you think now?
JS-Elcano
Posts: 988
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by JS-Elcano »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:27 am Here's my story.

My wife took a combination of her maternity leave plus vacation time plus FMLA for about 5 months total. She then returned and I took 12 weeks FMLA unpaid. The director of my group was all but ready to fire me over this but the head of HR and VP, who was both on my side and a personal friend made him cool his jets. The leave was well worth it. We could afford it so no problem with not getting paid.

If your company actually pays you, I have to say that if you don't take it, you should immediately go to the emergency room as it is clear that your brain is about to explode from a huge trauma. I'd look to see if there's an axe sticking into it.
(highlighting is mine) Isn't the whole point of the FMLA law that you cannot be fired? Your boss would have had to come up with another reason to fire you, which isn't that easy to do if you are a good employee (or is it?).
Californiastate
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:52 am

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Californiastate »

JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:10 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:27 am Here's my story.

My wife took a combination of her maternity leave plus vacation time plus FMLA for about 5 months total. She then returned and I took 12 weeks FMLA unpaid. The director of my group was all but ready to fire me over this but the head of HR and VP, who was both on my side and a personal friend made him cool his jets. The leave was well worth it. We could afford it so no problem with not getting paid.

If your company actually pays you, I have to say that if you don't take it, you should immediately go to the emergency room as it is clear that your brain is about to explode from a huge trauma. I'd look to see if there's an axe sticking into it.
(highlighting is mine) Isn't the whole point of the FMLA law that you cannot be fired? Your boss would have had to come up with another reason to fire you, which isn't that easy to do if you are a good employee (or is it?).
I worked as a contractor at a oil major. I remember one specific across the board reduction. It was hitting everywhere. It was clear what was happening. They were taking out the bad apples in one fell swoop. Those who milked their system and hid behind their privileges found themselves exposed. I heard it was a regular practice.
jackholloway
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by jackholloway »

Take the leave if your company offers it. However it plays out, you will learn a lot about whether they will have your back if your kid gets sick, if your spouse needs help, or if you end up out for a short term disability.

Companies offer leaves beyond the legal minimum because it lets them attract more effective employees, retain critical staff members, and address biases that reduce their potential employee pool and skill depth. As the ACS noted , "there is a role for male faculty in not hiding their family lives”.

I have seen my own megacorp's VPs, directors, middle managers, and leaf managers all take 12 weeks of leave, and do just fine later. As far as C-suite looking for dedication, it seems like memories are short - people care how the current and last project worked out, but unless you plan on being out way more often than the average, they are not likely to remember the one or two leaves you took over a decadal career.

Are there still places that would hold a leave against your? Of course - quite a few companies want you to put them above your own family. I am happy that I could retire rather than work for a company like that ever again.

If you are so "indispensable" that you cannot be gone for 12 weeks, then you are a single point of failure that your management chain should actively be looking to route around. I spend a fair amount of manager time detecting skill gaps, and lack of depth in my bench, and a key question is who could step in. You could, after all, be working for another employer at any time with just two weeks notice.
JS-Elcano
Posts: 988
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by JS-Elcano »

Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:20 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:10 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:27 am Here's my story.

My wife took a combination of her maternity leave plus vacation time plus FMLA for about 5 months total. She then returned and I took 12 weeks FMLA unpaid. The director of my group was all but ready to fire me over this but the head of HR and VP, who was both on my side and a personal friend made him cool his jets. The leave was well worth it. We could afford it so no problem with not getting paid.

If your company actually pays you, I have to say that if you don't take it, you should immediately go to the emergency room as it is clear that your brain is about to explode from a huge trauma. I'd look to see if there's an axe sticking into it.
(highlighting is mine) Isn't the whole point of the FMLA law that you cannot be fired? Your boss would have had to come up with another reason to fire you, which isn't that easy to do if you are a good employee (or is it?).
I worked as a contractor at a oil major. I remember one specific across the board reduction. It was hitting everywhere. It was clear what was happening. They were taking out the bad apples in one fell swoop. Those who milked their system and hid behind their privileges found themselves exposed. I heard it was a regular practice.
It's a sad state of affairs if the company functions by instilling fear in its employees who take what the law affords them and their young families.
Californiastate
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:52 am

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Californiastate »

JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:17 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:20 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:10 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:27 am Here's my story.

My wife took a combination of her maternity leave plus vacation time plus FMLA for about 5 months total. She then returned and I took 12 weeks FMLA unpaid. The director of my group was all but ready to fire me over this but the head of HR and VP, who was both on my side and a personal friend made him cool his jets. The leave was well worth it. We could afford it so no problem with not getting paid.

If your company actually pays you, I have to say that if you don't take it, you should immediately go to the emergency room as it is clear that your brain is about to explode from a huge trauma. I'd look to see if there's an axe sticking into it.
(highlighting is mine) Isn't the whole point of the FMLA law that you cannot be fired? Your boss would have had to come up with another reason to fire you, which isn't that easy to do if you are a good employee (or is it?).
I worked as a contractor at a oil major. I remember one specific across the board reduction. It was hitting everywhere. It was clear what was happening. They were taking out the bad apples in one fell swoop. Those who milked their system and hid behind their privileges found themselves exposed. I heard it was a regular practice.
It's a sad state of affairs if the company functions by instilling fear in its employees who take what the law affords them and their young families.
That would be illegal and a class action waiting to happen. Their legal department knew exactly how to operate within the law and still remove excess.
Wenonah
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:30 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Wenonah »

This is your child. My daughter, a millenial, was explaining to me why she shouldn't feel guilty about taking a scheduled vacation even if she gets hired by a new company: Because she's a human being. Just take it. The mother isn't the only one that should totally bond with their child. You WILL NOT REGRET IT. I remember vacations I didn't take because of my job and I do regret it. YOU WILL NOT REGRET THIS.
User avatar
celia
Posts: 16763
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:32 am
Location: SoCal

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by celia »

You feel “weird”?
Your wife has been feeling that way for 9 months and has also been in pain . . . Do you expect her to take care of you???


I took more than 12 weeks after each of my C-sects. And I wasn’t even paid back then. While I was on maternity leave, someone building a start-up asked me to go work for them when I was able to work again, which I ended up doing!!!

What your father and FIL did has no relevance to you. They didn’t just have a new baby, you did! And you should be taking care of BOTH your kids so your wife can recover. She needs to catch up on sleep and be cared for.

Cook some meals for the two of you. Do the laundry. Read to the older child. Rock the baby to sleep…. If you take the leave you are entitled to, you will see all that needs to be done and see how hard it is for one person to do it (whether or not you both work outside the home).

You may never get this lucky opportunity again to show how good a husband and father you can be.
Dandy
Posts: 6701
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Dandy »

Just had a new grandson in January. Can't believe the the attention that a baby needs and wants especially in the first few months. Having my son in law helping (he is a soccer coach that works more afternoons/wkends) has been such a benefit. Taking a late night feeding, shopping for baby formula, giving my daughter some rest, etc.

Try it for a few weeks to see how your wife and baby fare and how much you are needed and maybe want to stay.
PersonalFinanceJam
Posts: 685
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:32 am

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by PersonalFinanceJam »

At this point I'm just piling on here but it's a benefit that you should absolutely take. It's also something I think employers who care are taking notice. I changed jobs during the pandemic which was unexpected since I wasn't looking for a job and I had switched just before the pandemic started. The company I was with at the time had a requirement of 12 months employment before you could take the full paid paternity leave.

During the interview process the hiring manager asked if I had any concerns not related to any potential offer. I told him my wife and I were trying to have a chid and that I had met the requirements at my current job for full paid paternity leave. I told him that time was important to me and wanted to know if there were any restrictions around paternity leave at the new place. Later that day I had a copy of the HR regulations around paid paternity leave with a note from a person within HR which said "no restrictions". They eventually made a great offer which I accepted.

Fast forward to today. It took longer than my wife and I were hoping but we are expecting our first child in November. My current boss is already making plans for when I will be out and I have someone shadowing me to get up to speed on what I have going on. Like some others, my plan is to take some leave right after the birth but then save some remaining time for after my wife goes back to work.

You should have no conflict on this, and neither should your employer.
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17338
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by White Coat Investor »

z06ray wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:11 am My wife and I just had baby #2 last week. Everything is great and we are very happy. It seems to be a relatively new thing to be offered paternity leave at least at my mega Corp. My company offers 12 weeks and I am reluctant to take it. I just feel weird about it. I am off now and focusing mainly on our 20 month old as my wife recovers from c section. So I need some time, yes.

Everyone I seem to ask says to take it. Both my father and father in law were back to work the following day and run small businesses. They can't offer this type of thing and even they encourage taking it. What do bogleheads suggest? I want to always do my best work and not let anyone down.

Anyone take it? Or not take it? Why? Do you think that subconsciously this makes me look bad?
You're indirectly getting paid less because of this benefit (just like a 401(k) match) so why wouldn't you?
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
JS-Elcano
Posts: 988
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by JS-Elcano »

Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:43 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:17 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:20 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:10 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:27 am Here's my story.

My wife took a combination of her maternity leave plus vacation time plus FMLA for about 5 months total. She then returned and I took 12 weeks FMLA unpaid. The director of my group was all but ready to fire me over this but the head of HR and VP, who was both on my side and a personal friend made him cool his jets. The leave was well worth it. We could afford it so no problem with not getting paid.

If your company actually pays you, I have to say that if you don't take it, you should immediately go to the emergency room as it is clear that your brain is about to explode from a huge trauma. I'd look to see if there's an axe sticking into it.
(highlighting is mine) Isn't the whole point of the FMLA law that you cannot be fired? Your boss would have had to come up with another reason to fire you, which isn't that easy to do if you are a good employee (or is it?).
I worked as a contractor at a oil major. I remember one specific across the board reduction. It was hitting everywhere. It was clear what was happening. They were taking out the bad apples in one fell swoop. Those who milked their system and hid behind their privileges found themselves exposed. I heard it was a regular practice.
It's a sad state of affairs if the company functions by instilling fear in its employees who take what the law affords them and their young families.
That would be illegal and a class action waiting to happen. Their legal department knew exactly how to operate within the law and still remove excess.
The sad state of affairs I was alluding to was that taking paternity leave would make you “a bad apple” in the eyes of your company to be taken out at the next best opportunity.
John Doe 123
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:48 am

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by John Doe 123 »

JS-Elcano wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:57 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:43 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:17 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:20 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:10 pm

(highlighting is mine) Isn't the whole point of the FMLA law that you cannot be fired? Your boss would have had to come up with another reason to fire you, which isn't that easy to do if you are a good employee (or is it?).
I worked as a contractor at a oil major. I remember one specific across the board reduction. It was hitting everywhere. It was clear what was happening. They were taking out the bad apples in one fell swoop. Those who milked their system and hid behind their privileges found themselves exposed. I heard it was a regular practice.
It's a sad state of affairs if the company functions by instilling fear in its employees who take what the law affords them and their young families.
That would be illegal and a class action waiting to happen. Their legal department knew exactly how to operate within the law and still remove excess.
The sad state of affairs I was alluding to was that taking paternity leave would make you “a bad apple” in the eyes of your company to be taken out at the next best opportunity.
Probably a blessing in disguise to be honest. I wouldn't want a company with this mindset to benefit from my labor.

Yes, OP, you should take the leave and enjoy the time with your family.
JS-Elcano
Posts: 988
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by JS-Elcano »

John Doe 123 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 1:02 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:57 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 9:43 pm
JS-Elcano wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:17 pm
Californiastate wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:20 pm

I worked as a contractor at a oil major. I remember one specific across the board reduction. It was hitting everywhere. It was clear what was happening. They were taking out the bad apples in one fell swoop. Those who milked their system and hid behind their privileges found themselves exposed. I heard it was a regular practice.
It's a sad state of affairs if the company functions by instilling fear in its employees who take what the law affords them and their young families.
That would be illegal and a class action waiting to happen. Their legal department knew exactly how to operate within the law and still remove excess.
The sad state of affairs I was alluding to was that taking paternity leave would make you “a bad apple” in the eyes of your company to be taken out at the next best opportunity.
Probably a blessing in disguise to be honest. I wouldn't want a company with this mindset to benefit from my labor.

Yes, OP, you should take the leave and enjoy the time with your family.
Agreed. Their loss.
Leemiller
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:42 pm

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by Leemiller »

You need to take it. One reason is you will annoy many of your female coworkers if you don’t for obvious reasons.
coachd50
Posts: 1777
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:12 am

Re: New baby - conflicted on paternity leave??

Post by coachd50 »

Absolutely ridiculous reading many of these comments. You should definitely NOT take the leave, as your number one priority in life should be to maximize shareholder value. It is likely that many of us are part owners of your company through S&P or Total Stock Market funds, and you owe it to us as investors to maximize profits and value for us! / Sarcasm off.

On a serious note-- Yes, take the leave! BUT as others have mentioned, recognize there is a real possibility that somewhere down the line it might have a negative impact. That is a sad state, and hopefully your performance can help form (since this is a new benefit) the culture of the company regarding this practice.
Post Reply