TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
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TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Many years ago, my wife worked at a university that used (and still) TIAA 403B program. My wife had a total of 5 years in and subsequently left the funds in an aggressive growth account with about 500K today. Apparently, one of the plan options is for the “TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity”. This is the only time we’ve had any exposure to TIAA and wondering what experiences others have had with this >SPECIFIC < program. The inception date of this annuity program dates into the early 1950’s
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
TIAA Traditional can be illiquid, only allowing RMD's or a systematic total withdrawal over 10 years. It really depends on the terms of the specific contract. TIAA annuities can outrageously complex and confusing.
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
It is important for you to identify which type of Traditional you have:
https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/underst ... choice.pdf
https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/underst ... choice.pdf
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I'm not sure it's a "program." TIAA has annuity aspects to many of its investment options and Traditional is one of those. Unless you choose to annuitize your investment, the annuity aspect doesn't really matter to you. It's somewhat similar to a stable value option in another provider's 403b or 401k. Typically a 403b would feature an unrestricted flavor of Traditional, meaning you can transfer funds into or out of it more or less without restrictions, in exchange for a lower crediting rate than might apply to a more restricted flavor.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 9:04 pm Many years ago, my wife worked at a university that used (and still) TIAA 403B program. My wife had a total of 5 years in and subsequently left the funds in an aggressive growth account with about 500K today. Apparently, one of the plan options is for the “TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity”. This is the only time we’ve had any exposure to TIAA and wondering what experiences others have had with this >SPECIFIC < program. The inception date of this annuity program dates into the early 1950’s
Don't do anything with this investment until you understand exactly what you have. You should contact TIAA and ask them to explain the terms of your contract. Or, dig up that TIAA contract you were given back when computers had vacuum tubes, and read it thirty-seven times until you half understand it. Make sure you understand any restrictions that might apply to you, plus the "vintages" system that determines what rate existing Traditional funds actually earn (although you apparently have no existing Traditional funds, simplifying your situation.)
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I use this instead of bonds. 401(a) generally illiquid, take over 10 years, 403(b) generally liquid. Good guaranteed interest rate, usually pays more, and can't lose value. This is the best instrument that TIAA has. And you don't have to annuitize, you can draw down as you see fit when you retire.
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
There are quite a few BH forum participants with money in TIAA in general and TIAA Traditional in specific. TIAA Traditional is worthy of consideration. Whether or not your wife should use it depends both on what version is available to her and what other investment and retirement options are available to your family.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I think it is not unusual for 403(b) plans to put employER contributions into an illiquid version of TIAA Traditional, and employEE contributions into a liquid version. Both of the small colleges where I taught did it that way.
The key aspects to look for are:
- Liquid versus illiquid: can money be withdrawn (after age 59.5) or transferred to e.g. CREF accounts (at any time), or is there a restriction such as "ten payments over nine years and a day" (called a Transfer Payout Annuity or TPA)?
- Guaranteed minimum interest rate, which can be 1%, 3% or even a bit more.
- for discussion with people here who are familiar with TIAA, it helps to know the acronym(s) for the particular "flavor(s)" of TIAA Traditional that are involved: RA, GRA, SRA, GSRA, RC, RCP (or RC+). I have both RA (illiquid) and GSRA (liquid).
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Do you know of any negatives in using regional TIAA contacts for counsel ? Additional fees etc..? We are considering the Traditional as another self funded pension. We both have defined benefit programs currently with colas.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Like everything else at TIAA your experience will vary so nobody's experience will necessarily apply to you. In late 2020 I had a very helpful dedicated TIAA adviser, and he prepared a very detailed plan for me that incorporated all my TIAA and outside assets. He was actually my second assigned rep and my experience with both were similar. There was no fee, no pressure to move more assets to TIAA, etc. It was just advice, talking over conversion strategy options, gifting strategies... a very helpful service. Last year my rep was replaced by a "team" and as far as I know the same level of free services aren't available to me today. But your experience may differ depending on the institution you are/were associated with, the amount of your TIAA assets, or any number of factors nobody here knows anything about.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 11:35 pmDo you know of any negatives in using regional TIAA contacts for counsel ? Additional fees etc..? We are considering the Traditional as another self funded pension. We both have defined benefit programs currently with colas.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I essentially use TIAA traditional as my fixed income. Like others have said, check your flavor. In general, Retirement Annuity and Group Retirement Annuity are illiquid but Supplemental Retirement Annuity and Supplemental Group Retirement Annuity are liquid. The illiquid version, in general, pays a higher interest rate. My understanding is that TIAA Traditional's return should be similar to total bond but it will smooth out the curve. http://collegeretirement.blogspot.com/2 ... -deal.html
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My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
Edit: Fixed a typo.
You may be interested in the following discussion threads.
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My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
Edit: Fixed a typo.
Last edited by student on Sun May 29, 2022 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Technically TIAA Traditional first began in 1918. It had some changes, but was a relatively consistent product until 1989, when demands to permit some cash-out options caused changes, mostly for the better. It's very important that you tell us what alphabetic type you are offered, like RA, RC, RCP, ... Are you primarily interested in the product as a payout annuity, or would she continue accumulation in the near future?
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I have a significant percentage of my fixed income in TIAA traditional, several different accounts from different institutions. All of them have different rules and rates. I recommend that your wife call TIAA to get information on the specific account she has. Years ago I had a bad experience with recommendations from a representative, who talked me into putting money into some expensive funds, but if you are just getting information, it can be much easier than trying to find the details from your contract or online. They can tell you what interest rate you are getting, whether liquid or illiquid, how you would annuitize, and even how much you would get if you annuitized at different times. There is an online calculator to help figure that out but it is extremely cumbersome to use.
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
[emphasis added]student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:52 am I essentially use TIAA traditional as my fixed income. Like others have said, check your flavor. In general, Retirement Annuity and Group Retirement Annuity are illiquid but Supplemental Retirement Annuity and Supplemental Group Retirement Annuity are liquid. The liquid version, in general, pays a higher interest rate. [NOTE ADDED - bolded portion was a typo in original and has been fixed.] My understanding is that TIAA Traditional's return should be similar to total bond but it will smooth out the curve. http://collegeretirement.blogspot.com/2 ... -deal.html
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My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
In our TIAA 403b plans, it's the ILLIQUID flavor of the Traditional Annuity that is *accumulating* at a higher interest rate. [NOTE correction comment above]
In our cases, we are only planning to annuitize money within the illiquid Trad Ann, so I hadn't thought to compare if the payout rates once annuitized would be different between the liquid and illiquid holdings.
This is for 403b Trad Ann, not TIRA Trad Ann, which gets a much lower accumulating rate and will *not* be annuitized in our case.
RM
Last edited by ResearchMed on Sun May 29, 2022 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Probably interested as a payout annuity- the account had been generally untouched for 30 years. The T&C’s of the plan apparently rest with the former university according to TIAA.crefwatch wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:00 am Technically TIAA Traditional first began in 1918. It had some changes, but was a relatively consistent product until 1989, when demands to permit some cash-out options caused changes, mostly for the better. It's very important that you tell us what alphabetic type you are offered, like RA, RC, RCP, ... Are you primarily interested in the product as a payout annuity, or would she continue accumulation in the near future?
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Typo on my part. Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:50 am[emphasis added]student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:52 am I essentially use TIAA traditional as my fixed income. Like others have said, check your flavor. In general, Retirement Annuity and Group Retirement Annuity are illiquid but Supplemental Retirement Annuity and Supplemental Group Retirement Annuity are liquid. The liquid version, in general, pays a higher interest rate. My understanding is that TIAA Traditional's return should be similar to total bond but it will smooth out the curve. http://collegeretirement.blogspot.com/2 ... -deal.html
You may be interested in the following discussion threads.
viewtopic.php?t=248277
viewtopic.php?t=280858
viewtopic.php?t=290289
My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
In our TIAA 403b plans, it's the ILLIQUID flavor of the Traditional Annuity that is *accumulating* at a higher interest rate.
In our cases, we are only planning to annuitize money within the illiquid Trad Ann, so I hadn't thought to compare if the payout rates once annuitized would be different between the liquid and illiquid holdings.
This is for 403b Trad Ann, not TIRA Trad Ann, which gets a much lower accumulating rate and will *not* be annuitized in our case.
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Okay. And I made a notation in my post above.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:05 amTypo on my part. Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:50 am[emphasis added]student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:52 am I essentially use TIAA traditional as my fixed income. Like others have said, check your flavor. In general, Retirement Annuity and Group Retirement Annuity are illiquid but Supplemental Retirement Annuity and Supplemental Group Retirement Annuity are liquid. The liquid version, in general, pays a higher interest rate. My understanding is that TIAA Traditional's return should be similar to total bond but it will smooth out the curve. http://collegeretirement.blogspot.com/2 ... -deal.html
You may be interested in the following discussion threads.
viewtopic.php?t=248277
viewtopic.php?t=280858
viewtopic.php?t=290289
My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
In our TIAA 403b plans, it's the ILLIQUID flavor of the Traditional Annuity that is *accumulating* at a higher interest rate.
In our cases, we are only planning to annuitize money within the illiquid Trad Ann, so I hadn't thought to compare if the payout rates once annuitized would be different between the liquid and illiquid holdings.
This is for 403b Trad Ann, not TIRA Trad Ann, which gets a much lower accumulating rate and will *not* be annuitized in our case.
RM
But isn't there one flavor of Trad Ann, perhaps some sort of supplemental plan (??) that does/might pay more than the illiquid Trad Ann? I thought I remembered seeing a reference to that, but I wasn't familiar with it.
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Yes. The RC Retirement Choice currently pays the higher rate than the regular ones in both the illiquid version and the liquid version, respectively, but their guaranteed rates are only 1%.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:17 amOkay. And I made a notation in my post above.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:05 amTypo on my part. Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:50 am[emphasis added]student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:52 am I essentially use TIAA traditional as my fixed income. Like others have said, check your flavor. In general, Retirement Annuity and Group Retirement Annuity are illiquid but Supplemental Retirement Annuity and Supplemental Group Retirement Annuity are liquid. The liquid version, in general, pays a higher interest rate. My understanding is that TIAA Traditional's return should be similar to total bond but it will smooth out the curve. http://collegeretirement.blogspot.com/2 ... -deal.html
You may be interested in the following discussion threads.
viewtopic.php?t=248277
viewtopic.php?t=280858
viewtopic.php?t=290289
My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
In our TIAA 403b plans, it's the ILLIQUID flavor of the Traditional Annuity that is *accumulating* at a higher interest rate.
In our cases, we are only planning to annuitize money within the illiquid Trad Ann, so I hadn't thought to compare if the payout rates once annuitized would be different between the liquid and illiquid holdings.
This is for 403b Trad Ann, not TIRA Trad Ann, which gets a much lower accumulating rate and will *not* be annuitized in our case.
RM
But isn't there one flavor of Trad Ann, perhaps some sort of supplemental plan (??) that does/might pay more than the illiquid Trad Ann? I thought I remembered seeing a reference to that, but I wasn't familiar with it.
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Thanks.
And who is eligible to get this type of Trad Ann? Is it part of an employer plan?
I'm not sure that I'd want it, given the lower guaranteed rate, but I haven't tracked a comparison between the RC Retirement Choice and the "regular" (is that the oldest version, slightly changed at one point?) Trad Ann. Did RC interest rate ever drop below the regular, such as when interest rates were very low (until just recently, for example)?
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
From my perspective TIAA contracts have been complicated with each one different from another. Over the course of my career I had TIAA contracts with several employers, and the contracts were somewhat different. This, apparently, made it difficult, or impossible by contract rules, to roll these funds together. When I explored the process to annuitize these it became byzantine.
In the end, I decided to move my TIAA and CREF funds to Vanguard.....The TIAA funds had to be transferred in increments over 10 years. Once in Vanguard I was able to combine these assets into a Rollover IRA and then annuitize a portion of the funds via an immediate annuity.
The simplification provided by Vanguard gave a clear picture to me, my wife, and eventually to our heirs, of what assets we have and the alternatives for distribution during our lives and to our heirs beyond.
The folks at TIAA were upset with these significant transfers, but I opted for simplicity and understanding and have not for a moment regretted our decision.
In the end, I decided to move my TIAA and CREF funds to Vanguard.....The TIAA funds had to be transferred in increments over 10 years. Once in Vanguard I was able to combine these assets into a Rollover IRA and then annuitize a portion of the funds via an immediate annuity.
The simplification provided by Vanguard gave a clear picture to me, my wife, and eventually to our heirs, of what assets we have and the alternatives for distribution during our lives and to our heirs beyond.
The folks at TIAA were upset with these significant transfers, but I opted for simplicity and understanding and have not for a moment regretted our decision.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Does she have an online login for that old account? She should create one, because she can (without making an appointment or talking to an adviser she has never met before) ask online for a payout estimate that is binding on TIAA but does not require her to do anything.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:57 am Probably interested as a payout annuity- the account had been generally untouched for 30 years. The T&C’s of the plan apparently rest with the former university according to TIAA.
Note that you only asked a question about TIAA, you didn't post a current or retirement-time asset allocation or ask for advice about that. So we have to assume that you want a 100% reliable floor of some kind for your retirement income, there's not a family history of shorter lifespans, and you have other ways of protecting your retirement income from inflation and increasing healthcare costs ... ...
In general, all of TIAA's advising is free, what costs is if you chose an advised investment plan where they charge an annual percentage fee. I think that's relatively unusual, but of course older widows/widowers may be more inclined that way.
You have a lot of research to do, because this product is so complicated. However, it has been a very good investment and a very good fixed annuity for about 100 years. The main question is whether a fixed annuity is right for your family's needs. Note that it's not all or nothing. She can annuitize only a portion of her accumulation, if she wishes. Note that older money tends to have a higher payout rate than recently invested money. For example.
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https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/TT_FAQ.pdf
Why Should I use TIAA Traditional?
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www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/compliance/tiaa ... -paper.pdf
https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/making- ... rement.pdf
Various Flavors of TIAA Traditional
https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/underst ... choice.pdf
Should I wait for another time to annuitize TIAA Trad? 2020.2
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
When I started working in the 70s TIAA/CREF was the only option. It formed the core of my investments for many years and with the guaranteed rate in TIAA it was a useful anchor. When I reached age 59 I moved the CREF portion into my IRA but kept the Traditional, tapping the interest income as a bridge to SS at age 70. Eventually the interest was not enough to cover the RMD so I switched to an RMD. It is not now a large part of my portfolio but the income is useful and I have no regrets. An annuity would sure be a good option too.
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
One note: In some states, retirement distributions from state-employee's plans may be state income tax exempt, etc. But if moved to another plan, outside the state's plan(s), then distributions become taxable income instead. So yet another thing to check carefully.
Ditto on TIAA's plans being overly complex with options. However, they probably evolved over the many decades to such, to address desires of plans' participants.
Ditto on TIAA's plans being overly complex with options. However, they probably evolved over the many decades to such, to address desires of plans' participants.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
My understanding is that due to the prolonged low interest rate environment, TIAA has been trying to get institutions to switch to the RC option. So I assume the higher interest rate is to attract people. I have never seen RC interest rate below the corresponding version for the "regular" TIAA Traditional. The RC illiquid version also has a shorter lock-in period. There were some talks at my place a couple of years ago about switching to the RC version, I complained at the university senate meeting about the possible switch, as I was (still am) concerned about the 1% minimum rate.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:36 amThanks.
And who is eligible to get this type of Trad Ann? Is it part of an employer plan?
I'm not sure that I'd want it, given the lower guaranteed rate, but I haven't tracked a comparison between the RC Retirement Choice and the "regular" (is that the oldest version, slightly changed at one point?) Trad Ann. Did RC interest rate ever drop below the regular, such as when interest rates were very low (until just recently, for example)?
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Interesting.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 9:22 amMy understanding is that due to the prolonged low interest rate environment, TIAA has been trying to get institutions to switch to the RC option. So I assume the higher interest rate is to attract people. I have never seen RC interest rate below the corresponding version for the "regular" TIAA Traditional. The RC illiquid version also has a shorter lock-in period. There were some talks at my place a couple of years ago about switching to the RC version, I complained at the university senate meeting about the possible switch, as I was (still am) concerned about the 1% minimum rate.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:36 amThanks.
And who is eligible to get this type of Trad Ann? Is it part of an employer plan?
I'm not sure that I'd want it, given the lower guaranteed rate, but I haven't tracked a comparison between the RC Retirement Choice and the "regular" (is that the oldest version, slightly changed at one point?) Trad Ann. Did RC interest rate ever drop below the regular, such as when interest rates were very low (until just recently, for example)?
RM
I would also be very concerned about the 1% vs 3% as the minimums, regardless of the fact that RC *could* go higher. Without looking into it further (so, this is a very "iffy" comment at this point), I'd think in higher interest rate times, even if RC was higher than "regular"" Traditional, there would be other good investment choices. (Perhaps not true?)
But in very low interest times, that *guaranteed* extra 2% on a decent sized sum could be very helpful indeed.
When did RC make its appearance? Is it very recent? Is there enough history to be able to make such comparisons?
And presumably, IF a university made the change, it would only affect new money coming into Trad Ann, and not any current holdings...?
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
If you go to https://www.tiaa.org/public/investment-performance you can see that for the illiquid version, it has an annualized rate of 4.15 percent vs 3.86 percent for the regular version (10 years). In the footnote, it says 2005 and 2006 for the illiquid and liquid version, respectively. For comparison, see https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/underst ... choice.pdf Even Duke has the RC version https://forms.hr.duke.edu/media/benefit ... nsider.pdfResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 12:39 pmInteresting.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 9:22 amMy understanding is that due to the prolonged low interest rate environment, TIAA has been trying to get institutions to switch to the RC option. So I assume the higher interest rate is to attract people. I have never seen RC interest rate below the corresponding version for the "regular" TIAA Traditional. The RC illiquid version also has a shorter lock-in period. There were some talks at my place a couple of years ago about switching to the RC version, I complained at the university senate meeting about the possible switch, as I was (still am) concerned about the 1% minimum rate.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:36 amThanks.
And who is eligible to get this type of Trad Ann? Is it part of an employer plan?
I'm not sure that I'd want it, given the lower guaranteed rate, but I haven't tracked a comparison between the RC Retirement Choice and the "regular" (is that the oldest version, slightly changed at one point?) Trad Ann. Did RC interest rate ever drop below the regular, such as when interest rates were very low (until just recently, for example)?
RM
I would also be very concerned about the 1% vs 3% as the minimums, regardless of the fact that RC *could* go higher. Without looking into it further (so, this is a very "iffy" comment at this point), I'd think in higher interest rate times, even if RC was higher than "regular"" Traditional, there would be other good investment choices. (Perhaps not true?)
But in very low interest times, that *guaranteed* extra 2% on a decent sized sum could be very helpful indeed.
When did RC make its appearance? Is it very recent? Is there enough history to be able to make such comparisons?
And presumably, IF a university made the change, it would only affect new money coming into Trad Ann, and not any current holdings...?
RM
If a university makes a change, my understanding is that it should only be on new money due to its contractual obligations. See the above example for Duke.
Last edited by student on Sun May 29, 2022 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
For the illiquid version, it is probably limited to 10 years withdrawal. (Well 9 years and 1 month.) For the liquid version, no restrictions. I drew this conclusion because you do not have to annuitize your TIAA Traditional. You can treat it like any other mutual funds, except for the 10 years restriction for the illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I think the question (which I don't know the answer to) is whether you can annuitize over a finite five or ten years, not for a lifetime or two with an optional guarantee period. An annuity payout over 5 or ten years would presumably be at a higher annual rate than you'd get by simply withdrawing each year. So sort of like a MYGA.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:01 pmFor the illiquid version, it is probably limited to 10 years withdrawal. (Well 9 years and 1 month.) For the liquid version, no restrictions. I drew this conclusion because you do not have to annuitize your TIAA Traditional. You can treat it like any other mutual funds, except for the 10 years restriction for the illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
If you are waiting to maximize SS, you might want to play with the models to see if wiating until the max at age 70 would be worthwhile, since you are planning to wait until 68 already.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
As far as I know, what you would want for any such "gap income" would be the TPA - Transfer Payout Annuity. That gives you 10 approximately equal payments, paid out over 9 years and one day, and it depletes the amount set aside for the TPA. (You don't need to TPA the entire amount, IIRC.)
I'm not aware of a way to do that for fewer than 10 payments, which is the basis of the "illiquidity".
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Then I think the answer is yes. According to UMich (not my employer), https://hr.umich.edu/benefits-wellness/ ... me-optionstibbitts wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:11 pmI think the question (which I don't know the answer to) is whether you can annuitize over a finite five or ten years, not for a lifetime or two with an optional guarantee period. An annuity payout over 5 or ten years would presumably be at a higher annual rate than you'd get by simply withdrawing each year. So sort of like a MYGA.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:01 pmFor the illiquid version, it is probably limited to 10 years withdrawal. (Well 9 years and 1 month.) For the liquid version, no restrictions. I drew this conclusion because you do not have to annuitize your TIAA Traditional. You can treat it like any other mutual funds, except for the 10 years restriction for the illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
"Fixed-Period Annuity
You may begin receiving income from your contributions and earnings under a fixed-period annuity at any age once you have terminated employment. University contributions and earnings may be turned into income once you have terminated employment and have reached age 55 or older or at any age if you have officially retired from U-M.
A fixed-period annuity makes regular payments over a specific number of years (generally 2-30 years), which you choose in advance. By the end of the period, you will have received all of your principal and any earnings. If you live beyond this period, your annuity payments will not continue. If you die during the payment period, payments continue to your beneficiary. Fixed-period annuity payments of less than 10 years are subject to 20% federal tax withholding and may also be rolled over."
- ResearchMed
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
This is for the EmployEE's contributions? I've never heard of anything for the EmployER's contributions shorter than that "9 years plus a day for 10 payments".student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 3:05 pmThen I think the answer is yes. According to UMich (not my employer), https://hr.umich.edu/benefits-wellness/ ... me-optionstibbitts wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:11 pmI think the question (which I don't know the answer to) is whether you can annuitize over a finite five or ten years, not for a lifetime or two with an optional guarantee period. An annuity payout over 5 or ten years would presumably be at a higher annual rate than you'd get by simply withdrawing each year. So sort of like a MYGA.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:01 pmFor the illiquid version, it is probably limited to 10 years withdrawal. (Well 9 years and 1 month.) For the liquid version, no restrictions. I drew this conclusion because you do not have to annuitize your TIAA Traditional. You can treat it like any other mutual funds, except for the 10 years restriction for the illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
"Fixed-Period Annuity
You may begin receiving income from your contributions and earnings under a fixed-period annuity at any age once you have terminated employment. University contributions and earnings may be turned into income once you have terminated employment and have reached age 55 or older or at any age if you have officially retired from U-M.
A fixed-period annuity makes regular payments over a specific number of years (generally 2-30 years), which you choose in advance. By the end of the period, you will have received all of your principal and any earnings. If you live beyond this period, your annuity payments will not continue. If you die during the payment period, payments continue to your beneficiary. Fixed-period annuity payments of less than 10 years are subject to 20% federal tax withholding and may also be rolled over."
At our Employer, once one is old enough, one can remove the entire "own contribution plus earnings" at one time if one wishes to do so.
But not the EmployER contributions.
Those are almost untouchable until separation.
However, it turns out that if one is less than half time, and is above a certain age, one can take out an annual amount from the EmployER's contribution plus earnings that is based approximately on life expectancy... similar (not exact) to what one would get if one annuitized the entire amount as an SPIA.
Very few people are aware of this. I have no idea if this is available at other Employers or not. It may be but no one knows about it. That was pretty much our situation until I found "the fine print" in an Employee manual type of document.
This won't help someone working still working full time, etc.
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
After literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:29 amYes. The RC Retirement Choice currently pays the higher rate than the regular ones in both the illiquid version and the liquid version, respectively, but their guaranteed rates are only 1%.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:17 amOkay. And I made a notation in my post above.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:05 amTypo on my part. Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:50 am[emphasis added]student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:52 am I essentially use TIAA traditional as my fixed income. Like others have said, check your flavor. In general, Retirement Annuity and Group Retirement Annuity are illiquid but Supplemental Retirement Annuity and Supplemental Group Retirement Annuity are liquid. The liquid version, in general, pays a higher interest rate. My understanding is that TIAA Traditional's return should be similar to total bond but it will smooth out the curve. http://collegeretirement.blogspot.com/2 ... -deal.html
You may be interested in the following discussion threads.
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My experience with TIAA is that they do not have additional fees.
In our TIAA 403b plans, it's the ILLIQUID flavor of the Traditional Annuity that is *accumulating* at a higher interest rate.
In our cases, we are only planning to annuitize money within the illiquid Trad Ann, so I hadn't thought to compare if the payout rates once annuitized would be different between the liquid and illiquid holdings.
This is for 403b Trad Ann, not TIRA Trad Ann, which gets a much lower accumulating rate and will *not* be annuitized in our case.
RM
But isn't there one flavor of Trad Ann, perhaps some sort of supplemental plan (??) that does/might pay more than the illiquid Trad Ann? I thought I remembered seeing a reference to that, but I wasn't familiar with it.
RM
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I think this is likely for employee's contributions. For employer's contributions, my guess is the period has to be at least 10 years (assuming it is the regular illiquid version). Otherwise, this is a big loophole. The only exception that I know of is if the amount in the account is "small." I think it is $10,000.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 3:40 pmThis is for the EmployEE's contributions? I've never heard of anything for the EmployER's contributions shorter than that "9 years plus a day for 10 payments".student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 3:05 pmThen I think the answer is yes. According to UMich (not my employer), https://hr.umich.edu/benefits-wellness/ ... me-optionstibbitts wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:11 pmI think the question (which I don't know the answer to) is whether you can annuitize over a finite five or ten years, not for a lifetime or two with an optional guarantee period. An annuity payout over 5 or ten years would presumably be at a higher annual rate than you'd get by simply withdrawing each year. So sort of like a MYGA.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:01 pmFor the illiquid version, it is probably limited to 10 years withdrawal. (Well 9 years and 1 month.) For the liquid version, no restrictions. I drew this conclusion because you do not have to annuitize your TIAA Traditional. You can treat it like any other mutual funds, except for the 10 years restriction for the illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Something that is under consideration is to use the traditional plan as gap income between retirement at 63 to age 68 and delay social security. We both have very generous COLA pensions with 100% survivor benefit along with significant 457 and 401 balances. Hence the exploratory evaluation of TIAA options. Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
"Fixed-Period Annuity
You may begin receiving income from your contributions and earnings under a fixed-period annuity at any age once you have terminated employment. University contributions and earnings may be turned into income once you have terminated employment and have reached age 55 or older or at any age if you have officially retired from U-M.
A fixed-period annuity makes regular payments over a specific number of years (generally 2-30 years), which you choose in advance. By the end of the period, you will have received all of your principal and any earnings. If you live beyond this period, your annuity payments will not continue. If you die during the payment period, payments continue to your beneficiary. Fixed-period annuity payments of less than 10 years are subject to 20% federal tax withholding and may also be rolled over."
At our Employer, once one is old enough, one can remove the entire "own contribution plus earnings" at one time if one wishes to do so.
But not the EmployER contributions.
Those are almost untouchable until separation.
However, it turns out that if one is less than half time, and is above a certain age, one can take out an annual amount from the EmployER's contribution plus earnings that is based approximately on life expectancy... similar (not exact) to what one would get if one annuitized the entire amount as an SPIA.
Very few people are aware of this. I have no idea if this is available at other Employers or not. It may be but no one knows about it. That was pretty much our situation until I found "the fine print" in an Employee manual type of document.
This won't help someone working still working full time, etc.
RM
Last edited by student on Sun May 29, 2022 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
So you are qualified for multiple plans?RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pmAfter literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:29 amYes. The RC Retirement Choice currently pays the higher rate than the regular ones in both the illiquid version and the liquid version, respectively, but their guaranteed rates are only 1%.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:17 amOkay. And I made a notation in my post above.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:05 amTypo on my part. Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 6:50 am [emphasis added]
In our TIAA 403b plans, it's the ILLIQUID flavor of the Traditional Annuity that is *accumulating* at a higher interest rate.
In our cases, we are only planning to annuitize money within the illiquid Trad Ann, so I hadn't thought to compare if the payout rates once annuitized would be different between the liquid and illiquid holdings.
This is for 403b Trad Ann, not TIRA Trad Ann, which gets a much lower accumulating rate and will *not* be annuitized in our case.
RM
But isn't there one flavor of Trad Ann, perhaps some sort of supplemental plan (??) that does/might pay more than the illiquid Trad Ann? I thought I remembered seeing a reference to that, but I wasn't familiar with it.
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
No just the RA plan, it was grouped in with other listed plan groups also.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pmSo you are qualified for multiple plans?RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pmAfter literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:29 amYes. The RC Retirement Choice currently pays the higher rate than the regular ones in both the illiquid version and the liquid version, respectively, but their guaranteed rates are only 1%.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:17 amOkay. And I made a notation in my post above.
But isn't there one flavor of Trad Ann, perhaps some sort of supplemental plan (??) that does/might pay more than the illiquid Trad Ann? I thought I remembered seeing a reference to that, but I wasn't familiar with it.
RM
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Then it is the regular illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:15 pmNo just the RA plan, it was grouped in with other listed plan groups also.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pmSo you are qualified for multiple plans?RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pmAfter literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:29 amYes. The RC Retirement Choice currently pays the higher rate than the regular ones in both the illiquid version and the liquid version, respectively, but their guaranteed rates are only 1%.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 7:17 am
Okay. And I made a notation in my post above.
But isn't there one flavor of Trad Ann, perhaps some sort of supplemental plan (??) that does/might pay more than the illiquid Trad Ann? I thought I remembered seeing a reference to that, but I wasn't familiar with it.
RM
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
It's risky for me to quote rules I have no personal experience with. But if you read the second TIAA "brochure" link I provided,RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 1:22 pm Can the TIAA traditional payout plan be compressed into 5/10 years with a zero balance at the end ?
https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/making- ... rement.pdf
it says that Fixed Period payouts can be from 5 to 30 years. It has to be investigated whether that applies to the more illiquid varieties. You have not yet reported which kind of TIAA Traditional you have.
I often ask why someone who wants to put off taking SS by cashing out their TIAA Traditional, why they would deplete their Fixed Income allocation (i.e. TIAA Traditional) just when they are reaching their late years - when many people increase their Fixed Income allocation?
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
According to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmThen it is the regular illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:15 pmNo just the RA plan, it was grouped in with other listed plan groups also.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pmSo you are qualified for multiple plans?RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pmAfter literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I wasn't aware of any contracts that have a minimum guarantee of more than 3%, although some vintages might be paying 4% currently. I'd definitely hang onto a contract with a 4% guarantee.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:23 amAccording to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmThen it is the regular illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:15 pmNo just the RA plan, it was grouped in with other listed plan groups also.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pmSo you are qualified for multiple plans?RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pm
After literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I am not aware of a different guaranteed rate during the payout period. If it is indeed 4%, it is good.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:23 amAccording to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:23 pmThen it is the regular illiquid version.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 5:15 pmNo just the RA plan, it was grouped in with other listed plan groups also.student wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:40 pmSo you are qualified for multiple plans?RoadThunder wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pm
After literally hrs of searching it’s qualifies for the TIAA Traditional:GRA,RC,ATRA,RA- plan.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
You may currently be earning 4% for the most recent vintage, but it is not possible that your minimum guarantee is 4%. If you really have an RA contract, the normal full withdrawal period would be 9 years and a day. I'm not home so I can't cite a document.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:23 am
RA
According to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.
AFAIK, your guarantee is 3% and in annuitized payout the guarantee is 2.5%.
Edit: Found this via previous reply link pages:
https://www.tiaa.org/public/investment- ... r=47933630
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I have Tiaa Traditional annuity payments. I like them just fine
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Double checked and it’s 3% with guaranteed with 4% assumed for this RA plan. However, in double checking, the minimum withdrawal period is 24 months. I received a custom “retirement profile “ document from TIAA. This reflected our possible 5 year withdrawal schedule. Further noted minimum age starting at age 55.crefwatch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:54 pmYou may currently be earning 4% for the most recent vintage, but it is not possible that your minimum guarantee is 4%. If you really have an RA contract, the normal full withdrawal period would be 9 years and a day. I'm not home so I can't cite a document.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:23 am
RA
According to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.
AFAIK, your guarantee is 3% and in annuitized payout the guarantee is 2.5%.
Edit: Found this via previous reply link pages:
https://www.tiaa.org/public/investment- ... r=47933630
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Great. I guess it meets your needs.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:17 pmDouble checked and it’s 3% with guaranteed with 4% assumed for this RA plan. However, in double checking, the minimum withdrawal period is 24 months. I received a custom “retirement profile “ document from TIAA. This reflected our possible 5 year withdrawal schedule. Further noted minimum age starting at age 55.crefwatch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:54 pmYou may currently be earning 4% for the most recent vintage, but it is not possible that your minimum guarantee is 4%. If you really have an RA contract, the normal full withdrawal period would be 9 years and a day. I'm not home so I can't cite a document.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:23 am
RA
According to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.
AFAIK, your guarantee is 3% and in annuitized payout the guarantee is 2.5%.
Edit: Found this via previous reply link pages:
https://www.tiaa.org/public/investment- ... r=47933630
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Thanks for the Q&A ! TIAA is weirdly confusing.student wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:46 pmGreat. I guess it meets your needs.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:17 pmDouble checked and it’s 3% with guaranteed with 4% assumed for this RA plan. However, in double checking, the minimum withdrawal period is 24 months. I received a custom “retirement profile “ document from TIAA. This reflected our possible 5 year withdrawal schedule. Further noted minimum age starting at age 55.crefwatch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:54 pmYou may currently be earning 4% for the most recent vintage, but it is not possible that your minimum guarantee is 4%. If you really have an RA contract, the normal full withdrawal period would be 9 years and a day. I'm not home so I can't cite a document.RoadThunder wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:23 am
RA
According to the rules, it appears to pay a guaranteed 4% n the fixed plan . Furthermore, looks like it’s 2 year minimum payout period.
AFAIK, your guarantee is 3% and in annuitized payout the guarantee is 2.5%.
Edit: Found this via previous reply link pages:
https://www.tiaa.org/public/investment- ... r=47933630
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
I found that the terms of my wife's 1985 SRA Annuity have been superseded by laws passed since then. The original contract language states that the account must be annuitize at age 70. I think that age is now 85.tibbitts wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 9:37 pm
Don't do anything with this investment until you understand exactly what you have. You should contact TIAA and ask them to explain the terms of your contract. Or, dig up that TIAA contract you were given back when computers had vacuum tubes, and read it thirty-seven times until you half understand it. Make sure you understand any restrictions that might apply to you, plus the "vintages" system that determines what rate existing Traditional funds actually earn (although you apparently have no existing Traditional funds, simplifying your situation.)
The our options seem to be 1) transfer it to an traditional IRA, 2) at single life payments time before age 85 annuitize, 3) survivor annuity option, or 4) annuity for a guaranteed period (10, 15, 20 years).
With the single life or survivor options, this is a insurance policy with mortality credits involved. You will have to ask TIAA what the payout amounts will be when you are ready to annuitize. Read up on annuities, especially Wade Pfau books.
With the annuity for a guaranteed period (10, 15, 20 years), payments will be made to the owner or the beneficiary for the fixed period based on accounting principles with no mortality credits.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
Mandatory annuitization of TIAA Traditional seems unlikely. Make sure this doesn't simply mean that annuitization is only permitted until a certain advanced age, and prohibited later.
Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
- ResearchMed
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
For some reason, I thought that initially, the TIAA Traditional Annuity (way back) was indeed *only* an "annuity" in the narrower sense of the word, meaning life-time payments. And that was the only choice, with nothing like mutual fund type holdings available...??student wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 4:54 pmYes. I also find it strange that it is mandatory.
Both DH's and my parents had that and they retired a long time ago. Both sets of parents had TIAA life payment annuities, plus Social Security.
All four of them have now passed, so we can't ask if that was their only choice.
Needless to say, my memory could be wrong. But the TIAA "offerings" have changed considerably over the decades.
RM
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Re: TIAA Traditional Guaranteed Annuity? Any good?
It could be mandatory in the old days. I think one of my colleagues (in his 70's) is currently using RMD. After seeing mandatory in chemocrean's message, I got worried and checked with the TIAA advisor for our university. Fortunately, I have many options on all my accounts.ResearchMed wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:07 pmFor some reason, I thought that initially, the TIAA Traditional Annuity (way back) was indeed *only* an "annuity" in the narrower sense of the word, meaning life-time payments. And that was the only choice, with nothing like mutual fund type holdings available...??student wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 4:54 pmYes. I also find it strange that it is mandatory.
Both DH's and my parents had that and they retired a long time ago. Both sets of parents had TIAA life payment annuities, plus Social Security.
All four of them have now passed, so we can't ask if that was their only choice.
Needless to say, my memory could be wrong. But the TIAA "offerings" have changed considerably over the decades.
RM