Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

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Colorado13
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Colorado13 »

stoptothink wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 2:19 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 1:39 pm
snackdog wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:21 am Definitely rent for trips. An SUV for $40 per day or $1200/mo gets you a newer vehicle you can abuse, eat in, etc. Return it filthy and toss them the keys. $10k markup could cover several years of rentals.
Years ago I rented routinely for travel as you describe and even though I owned a car it made sense. Today that SUV could easily cost three or four times the amount you quoted.
Few others beat me to it, would love to see where you can rent an SUV for $40 day right now.

In April in California, we rented an SUV from Avis for $40 per day. Actually, we had reserved a Corolla and Avis gave us an SUV for the same price because they didn't have any Corollas.

We rented the car at the San Jose airport. It was more expensive to fly into San Francisco and to rent a car in San Francisco, so San Jose was a good option for us in terms of flight and rental car rates. Obviously your mileage may vary...
BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by BernardShakey »

Arizonasun2008 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:59 pm Once again, another car post but I looked in other posts and didn’t see the specific question asked. Has anyone purchased a car recently with a high markup, between 10-15k and have no regrets about it?

I am in the market for a Kia Telluride and as some may know, this vehicle’s demand is far exceeding its supply. It is possible for me to wait a year and place an order and then pay a $4k mark up fee or I could potentially get one off the lot for $10k over msrp. I am having a difficult time deciding because the BogleHead in me knows that this is the worst time to buy a car. However, another part of me considers that getting a car now allows us to enjoy the summer road-trips more comfortably this year. Can we afford the $10k mark up? Yes. I am just undecided so curious if someone has done this recently with no regrets.
I bought a 2021 Kia Telluride LX for my wife. The Telluride is a great vehicle, IMO the best of the non-luxury 3-row SUVs....safe, very reliable, great warranty, and tons of features even on the lower end LX model. Has about 9k miles on it and is in great shape.

Wife's 2009 Odyssey minivan was looking pretty shabby and has over 120,000 miles on it. We decided we didn't want to look like the Beverly Hillbillies anymore and didn't want to wait a couple more years to replace the van.

Yeah, I paid more for it than I would have liked, but so what? I paid more than I would have liked for a great steak dinner last night too.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by BernardShakey »

bob60014 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:30 pm Never for a Kia.
You haven't kept up on the evolution of Kia.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
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snackdog
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by snackdog »

tibbitts wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:14 pm
snackdog wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 3:09 pm I see, for example, a Ford Edge for $1300/mo from Cincinnati. Larger SUVs could be more but the Ford seats five.
Is that a private rental? Lowest I see for a rental car company is $2k+tax.
Budget.
finite_difference
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by finite_difference »

Carguy85 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:23 pm
8foot7 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 11:05 am The industry is not built or set up for capacity/supply controls or limits. It’s built on the average American getting bored on a Saturday and getting a new car that afternoon while getting the negative equity from his last three bored Saturday purchases rolled into it.
So true. Last I checked wages have nowhere near kept up with inflation. Consequences of printing money like it’s going out of style are unfortunately going to hit the average American very hard sooner than later. The last thing that person should probably be holding is a bag of debt on a rapidly depreciating asset they just paid far too much for. Not saying this is the OP...just in general.
I agree that spending your stimulus money on more vehicle than you need is not a good idea. But not sure anyone really did that. From what I read, people were using it to fix their cars, pay back bills/CC debt, and build up their emergency funds.

I also think that when self-driving cars become a thing, which is a when and not an if, it will lead to some ownership changes. If I could affordably summon a nice car when I need it.. I would probably downsize by a car or two. Maybe won’t impact anything in 5 years, but 10 years.. I can see structural changes happening. Working from home and automated deliveries will support those changes too.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
finite_difference
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by finite_difference »

BernardShakey wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:27 pm
Arizonasun2008 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:59 pm Once again, another car post but I looked in other posts and didn’t see the specific question asked. Has anyone purchased a car recently with a high markup, between 10-15k and have no regrets about it?

I am in the market for a Kia Telluride and as some may know, this vehicle’s demand is far exceeding its supply. It is possible for me to wait a year and place an order and then pay a $4k mark up fee or I could potentially get one off the lot for $10k over msrp. I am having a difficult time deciding because the BogleHead in me knows that this is the worst time to buy a car. However, another part of me considers that getting a car now allows us to enjoy the summer road-trips more comfortably this year. Can we afford the $10k mark up? Yes. I am just undecided so curious if someone has done this recently with no regrets.
I bought a 2021 Kia Telluride LX for my wife. The Telluride is a great vehicle, IMO the best of the non-luxury 3-row SUVs....safe, very reliable, great warranty, and tons of features even on the lower end LX model. Has about 9k miles on it and is in great shape.

Wife's 2009 Odyssey minivan was looking pretty shabby and has over 120,000 miles on it. We decided we didn't want to look like the Beverly Hillbillies anymore and didn't want to wait a couple more years to replace the van.

Yeah, I paid more for it than I would have liked, but so what? I paid more than I would have liked for a great steak dinner last night too.
I agree with your take.

A car can be worth more than its MSRP. The best cars are. So paying more than MSRP can completely make sense.

On the other hand, some cars are not worth a heavy discount off MSRP.

So as long as one shops around to get the market OTD price, it’s in the eye of the beholder to decide whether that price is worth it. A lot of the trims and options are subjective in value.

Not sure if people realize it, but Genesis/Hyundai/Kia are the same thing, like Lexus/Toyota and Acura/Honda. Lately they’ve been making cars that are kind of a cross between Genesis/Hyundai and badging them as Kia, and otherwise I think in general significantly upgrading Kia cars to be like a youthful/sporty version of Hyundai.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
Carson
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Carson »

Just bought a 2020 Telluride with 6,000 miles for $46k. I think the MSRP sticker from 2 years ago had it priced at $40k. It does have a lot of features and we like the car, hoping it will last us 8 years or so.

It has probably been the least frugal thing we've done. I don't 'regret' it persay but I feel ambivalent and I suppose it took a little bit of the fun out of things. . We made out on the trade-in side though which softened the blow.
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dsmclone
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by dsmclone »

I waited 4 months and drove 4 hours to buy the 2021 Telluride SX-P at MSRP. No regrets and I told myself I would never do business with a dealership that charges over MSRP. My local dealer is charging $5k over MSRP so I just used their dealership to test drive and then walked. I've had the vehicle just over a year and it's been great.
Valuethinker
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Valuethinker »

finite_difference wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:22 pm
Carguy85 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 12:23 pm
8foot7 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 11:05 am The industry is not built or set up for capacity/supply controls or limits. It’s built on the average American getting bored on a Saturday and getting a new car that afternoon while getting the negative equity from his last three bored Saturday purchases rolled into it.
So true. Last I checked wages have nowhere near kept up with inflation. Consequences of printing money like it’s going out of style are unfortunately going to hit the average American very hard sooner than later. The last thing that person should probably be holding is a bag of debt on a rapidly depreciating asset they just paid far too much for. Not saying this is the OP...just in general.
I agree that spending your stimulus money on more vehicle than you need is not a good idea. But not sure anyone really did that. From what I read, people were using it to fix their cars, pay back bills/CC debt, and build up their emergency funds.
I am thinking the US stimulus was $1200 per individual, twice? I know there was a whole thing about whether the second payment was as large as the first... gets into politics so not worth going there.

I don't see how that could be "spent" on a new car except at the margin, when a new car costs $25k+?

Employment is high and people had savings because money they might have spent on travel, entertainment etc was not spent due to lockdowns. That's probably the main source of excess spending power on cars.
I also think that when self-driving cars become a thing, which is a when and not an if, it will lead to some ownership changes. If I could affordably summon a nice car when I need it.. I would probably downsize by a car or two. Maybe won’t impact anything in 5 years, but 10 years.. I can see structural changes happening. Working from home and automated deliveries will support those changes too.
"Usership not ownership" models. Yes. I happen to think that true self-driving is still a long way away, despite impressive advances. The problem that it is trying to solve is truly *hard*. My colleague though rents her car out during the week - for several hundred (British) pounds a month - via a phone app. I don't know how the insurance works on that. That's a good example of 1 car serving the needs of 2 or more households. Given a car is say $40k of metal & plastic which is used for 2 hours a day for most households, that seems a natural development now that the technology makes it possible.

Although Working From Home is definitely a thing - 20 years of social evolution compressed into a 2 year emergency - that seems to have hit public transport in cities where people commute that way (primarily the NE in USA?). However traffic (in London, for example) is back to more or less where it was before the first lockdown.

Perhaps WFH has simply enabled people to live further away, fewer days commuting but greater distances when they do commute.
Rocky Mtn Man
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Rocky Mtn Man »

snackdog wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:21 am Definitely rent for trips. An SUV for $40 per day or $1200/mo gets you a newer vehicle you can abuse, eat in, etc. Return it filthy and toss them the keys. $10k markup could cover several years of rentals.
I'm not tracking $40/day for an SUV anywhere near me. National company is $900-1600 per week with tax and fees.

-C
RJC
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by RJC »

OP,

Have you tried using a car broker? I have had good success using one as they already have great relationships with local dealers. They will be able to tell you what is available and how much you can expect to pay in your area.
JackoC
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by JackoC »

finite_difference wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:39 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:27 pm
Arizonasun2008 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:59 pm Once again, another car post but I looked in other posts and didn’t see the specific question asked. Has anyone purchased a car recently with a high markup, between 10-15k and have no regrets about it?

I am in the market for a Kia Telluride and as some may know, this vehicle’s demand is far exceeding its supply. It is possible for me to wait a year and place an order and then pay a $4k mark up fee or I could potentially get one off the lot for $10k over msrp.
I bought a 2021 Kia Telluride LX for my wife. The Telluride is a great vehicle, IMO the best of the non-luxury 3-row SUVs....safe, very reliable, great warranty, and tons of features even on the lower end LX model. Has about 9k miles on it and is in great shape.

Wife's 2009 Odyssey minivan was looking pretty shabby and has over 120,000 miles on it. We decided we didn't want to look like the Beverly Hillbillies anymore and didn't want to wait a couple more years to replace the van.

Yeah, I paid more for it than I would have liked, but so what? I paid more than I would have liked for a great steak dinner last night too.
I agree with your take.

A car can be worth more than its MSRP. The best cars are. So paying more than MSRP can completely make sense.

On the other hand, some cars are not worth a heavy discount off MSRP.

So as long as one shops around to get the market OTD price, it’s in the eye of the beholder to decide whether that price is worth it. A lot of the trims and options are subjective in value.

Not sure if people realize it, but Genesis/Hyundai/Kia are the same thing, like Lexus/Toyota and Acura/Honda. Lately they’ve been making cars that are kind of a cross between Genesis/Hyundai and badging them as Kia, and otherwise I think in general significantly upgrading Kia cars to be like a youthful/sporty version of Hyundai.
I agree the key is whether that's the best price, or the best one that can be uncovered with a reasonable effort (recalling pre-COVID threads of people's multi-month campaigns of throwing fits at various dealers all over a region to eventually get a little better deal... on a model by then perhaps anybody else could have walked in and gotten a better price on... :happy ). The sticking point might be whether another make/model closer to MSRP was as desirable as the first one further over MSRP, no easy solution to that. Likewise time value of waiting. Recently I shopped for seemingly not that similar cars, Lexus IS500 Performance Premium, Acura TLX Type S, Acura MDX Type S, Porsche Macan S. I finally got the Porsche on an order for MSRP (in Feb, comes next month recently confirmed it's finished and awaiting shipment) after the dealers of previous three wouldn't/couldn't take orders and held out at various prices $2-10k over MSRP. But I wouldn't call people who went for the relative best of the MSRP+ deals 'foolish'. I would admit the possibility that a not strictly rational stubborn reluctance on my part to have to say 'I paid more than MSRP' factored in. But also my rational assessment I didn't need the car right away, I didn't, would have rather had it right away. And just decided I preferred one to the others too.

To maybe nitpick, Genesis/Hyundai is the same as Lexus/Toyota from a corporate ownership POV although Hyundai started by selling Genesis at Hyundai dealerships rather than launching a separate network from the get go like Toyota did with Lexus; now there are some standalone Genesis dealerships. But Hyundai and Kia are not quite like that. They have a close alliance and Hyundai Motor Group is biggest (but minority) shareholder in Kia but they are not the same company. From a consumer POV it's of limited importance except it means no coordinated effort to appeal to different segments of the market. There's no pretense you should be getting something basic in a Kia you don't get in a Hyundai or vice versa like there is between a Hyundai/Genesis or Toyota/Lexus (price/luxury&refinement). Kia and Hyundai are both trying to produce a better mid market vehicle, admittedly with some stylistic difference, and that's not strictly duplicative (like it was when various GM brands offerings or Ford/Mercury where *so* farcically close to identical) because they are not strictly the same company.
illumination
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by illumination »

It just depends on your overall net worth, for some people that premium is just not a lot of money, like taking a vacation. If you're buying a Kia though, you're clearly somewhat budget conscious (and I understand its more upscale brand than it used to be). I think it's crazy to pay a $10k premium for that vehicle to just get it sooner.

FWIW, I have a relative that owns a car lot and has a successful car wholesaling business. His advice is if you don't need a car RIGHT NOW, wait. He thinks people are crazy that insist on having car in this time period. Some people though can't avoid it, like say if you have a totaled vehicle and an insurance check and need transportation. He was saying probably 18+ months and things get way better with car sales. Some brands are worse than others and Truck/SUVs/Commercial Vehicles are the ones with the most insane markups. He said traditional dealers are just cleaning up right now with these insane markups that consumers seem willing to pay.
Ktorrence
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Ktorrence »

Over 20% markup! No way. You can find a better deal. Tell ‘em to Kia(keep it a**hole)
RoadThunder
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by RoadThunder »

I don’t have a “dream” anything- if the numbers don’t work, I’ll never be happy with the purchase.
Carguy85
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Carguy85 »

How much more does the market have to drop before a hefty markup on a Kia...or any car is totally a thing of the past? Earlier in the year we were thinking about trading in a 5 year old gas guzzler with over 100k on it for a hybrid that gets more than double the mileage... only thing was that it would cost $20k out of pocket. No doubt getting off the cash now is much harder mentally when we are down several hundred k in investments. Doing this isn’t even on the radar now even though we have the cash, steady jobs, and no debt. To counteract the outrageous fuel cost we will simply eat out less and probably not go on a fall vacation. More of a mental thing I suppose.
reddison
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by reddison »

We bought a 2021 Telluride from our local dealer. Fortunately, they do not have a markup. But it was the first time I ever paid full sticker price. They told us it could be a 6 month wait but we got it in less than two. We love the car and I am happy with what I paid. I do not think it would be worth it with the markup you are describing. I have always bought new and relied on Consumer Reports ratings. I think some of the people responding never for a Kia are not aware that it not only rates higher than the Highlander and Pilot, but does so by a significant margin. For $10-15,000 I’d find a dealer elsewhere with no markup, even if in another state.
h82goslw
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by h82goslw »

BernardShakey wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:34 pm
bob60014 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:30 pm Never for a Kia.
You haven't kept up on the evolution of Kia.
Evolution of Kia? They've had problems for years. I’ve read of hundreds of thousands of Kias/Hyundais being recalled for fires and other issues….just this year. They look way nicer than they used to, but do they sure do still have many problems.
BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by BernardShakey »

h82goslw wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 5:42 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:34 pm
bob60014 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:30 pm Never for a Kia.
You haven't kept up on the evolution of Kia.
Evolution of Kia? They've had problems for years. I’ve read of hundreds of thousands of Kias/Hyundais being recalled for fires and other issues….just this year. They look way nicer than they used to, but do they sure do still have many problems.
Recent problems with Kias ? Telluride has the highest rated reliability for 3-row SUVs in Consumer Reports. Granted the Telluride has not been around as long as the Honda and Toyota models.
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
BernardShakey
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by BernardShakey »

illumination wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:07 am It just depends on your overall net worth, for some people that premium is just not a lot of money, like taking a vacation. If you're buying a Kia though, you're clearly somewhat budget conscious (and I understand its more upscale brand than it used to be). I think it's crazy to pay a $10k premium for that vehicle to just get it sooner.

FWIW, I have a relative that owns a car lot and has a successful car wholesaling business. His advice is if you don't need a car RIGHT NOW, wait. He thinks people are crazy that insist on having car in this time period. Some people though can't avoid it, like say if you have a totaled vehicle and an insurance check and need transportation. He was saying probably 18+ months and things get way better with car sales. Some brands are worse than others and Truck/SUVs/Commercial Vehicles are the ones with the most insane markups. He said traditional dealers are just cleaning up right now with these insane markups that consumers seem willing to pay.
Yes, making more money on each deal, but their volume is way down. You go to some dealers and there are so few cars and hardly any customers.
I think car prices are going to remain high until the supply chain issues are thoroughly resolved. Even improvement in supply chain won't make much difference as there will be pent up demand (unless we get into a deep recession). Kind of like adding a lane to a busy urban freeway...the day it opens the freeway is still insufficient because there was so much more demand that had been previously finding alternatives (side streets).
An important key to investing is having a well-calibrated sense of your future regret.
jay99
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by jay99 »

Picking up New Porsche 911 tomorrow. Ordered it 10 months ago. Trading in 10 year old Porsche, drove this car for effective cost of $325 a month in lost depreciation. Was able to secure car at MSRP. Currently car has 20k dealer markup. My wife says you saved pot of gold why not use it. New car is over six figures, honestly don't care rather have that money in the garage than another 100k plus at Fidelity. You gotta live! Meanwhile I only own index funds and love Boggle-head model but make exceptions for some luxury items.....Porsche.
SR II
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by SR II »

StevieG72 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:58 pm Heck to the no, not buying over MSRP period!j
I remember in 1979, my boyfriend said he'd NEVER pay over $1.00/gal for gas. Wonder how that worked out?
mortalsonofmortal
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by mortalsonofmortal »

I am in the market for a minivan as my family is expanding. Started looking early for a used vehicle. My crieteria was to get a sienna 2015 or higher xle trim with awd. I was seeing $5,000 to 8,000 premium on used cars. Since my need was time bound, I decided to go with a new 2022 toyota sienna. A dealer nearby agreed to sell at msrp but was in a waiting list. Got a call from them last week saying another buyer backed out of a xle awd but i will have to buy as is. The problem was that guy added a whole bunch of luxury options that i would have never added to my car $5000 worth of additional factory plus features. From msrp of $42,000, the total otd price jumped to 53,000 after delivery charges, tax, document fee etc. My initial thought was to say no. But then i looked at my financials and thought if i trade in my car and use my car fund(started this ever since i paid off my last car) and put a few thousands from 1 year emergency, i can pay cash for the thing. Decided to go for it. Never treated myself with shiney new good things in my life. Always content with second hand cars. I done the hard work. Time to enjoy a little. But since i am getting factory upgrades, i dont consider that as overpaying. Much. :)
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eye.surgeon
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by eye.surgeon »

I bought a 1 year old used Porsche GT4 6 months ago for $15k over original MSRP, drove the heck out of it and loved every minute of it for 6 months, and sold it for $21k over original MSRP. No regrets.
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Northern Flicker
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Northern Flicker »

Arizonasun2008 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:59 pm Once again, another car post but I looked in other posts and didn’t see the specific question asked. Has anyone purchased a car recently with a high markup, between 10-15k and have no regrets about it?

I am in the market for a Kia Telluride and as some may know, this vehicle’s demand is far exceeding its supply. It is possible for me to wait a year and place an order and then pay a $4k mark up fee or I could potentially get one off the lot for $10k over msrp. I am having a difficult time deciding because the BogleHead in me knows that this is the worst time to buy a car. However, another part of me considers that getting a car now allows us to enjoy the summer road-trips more comfortably this year. Can we afford the $10k mark up? Yes. I am just undecided so curious if someone has done this recently with no regrets.
There is no way I would pay a $14K markup over MSRP for any car, but certainly not for a Kia. I have nothing against Kia, but there is nothing so special about them to justify that. If you buy it, my prediction is the depreciation with be ultra-steep.

Aren’t there cars you could buy that would meet your need, that are available with much less lead time, and have a much lower markup?
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
valleyrock
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by valleyrock »

Not sure about now, but Kias were several years ago well known to have very steep depreciation, compared with other brands. Must be demand for used Kias is low, which could be for various reasons, such as maintenance costs, etc.
JackoC
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by JackoC »

BernardShakey wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 7:43 pm
h82goslw wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 5:42 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:34 pm
bob60014 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:30 pm Never for a Kia.
You haven't kept up on the evolution of Kia.
Evolution of Kia? They've had problems for years. I’ve read of hundreds of thousands of Kias/Hyundais being recalled for fires and other issues….just this year. They look way nicer than they used to, but do they sure do still have many problems.
Recent problems with Kias ? Telluride has the highest rated reliability for 3-row SUVs in Consumer Reports. Granted the Telluride has not been around as long as the Honda and Toyota models.
That is the vehicle we're talking about, true. On overall brand reliability ranking Kia hasn't done great with Consumer Reports lately though, was 19th of 28 in 2022 (Hyundai was 11th, Genesis 25th, as mentioned above Hyundai/Genesis are brands of the same company, Hyundai and Kia are two different though closely allied companies). That's in contrast to JD Power where Kia was ranked 1st in a recent survey (and Genesis also near the top not bottom like CR), same article linked. I generally have more confidence in CR reliability data than any other single source, but there's noise and anomalies (a particular model does really well or badly then suddenly changes even without a new generation of the car being introduced, etc.).

In general though I don't see a reason to very strongly prefer a Kia over another generally mid market brand 3 row SUV, not to the tune of a $10k mark up over MSRP if roughly similar competitors are marked up less. And in my recent car buying experience that's a big mark up. Again I saw a number like that as first offer on Lexus IS500 F Sport Performance Premium (which I didn't get) but that is more of a bona fide one of a kind (new big naturally aspirated V8 sports sedan), not a middle market SUV you like a little more than very similar competitor models. Or at least I can't see myself *strongly* preferring one model or another of that kind.

https://www.autolist.com/guides/most-re ... car-brands
dsmclone
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by dsmclone »

valleyrock wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:35 am Not sure about now, but Kias were several years ago well known to have very steep depreciation, compared with other brands. Must be demand for used Kias is low, which could be for various reasons, such as maintenance costs, etc.
Well I paid $51k(MSRP) for my loaded Telluride and after a year Carvana would give me $55k. I've had a lot of cars in my lifetime and none had that good of resale. A close second was a 2000 Honda Civic Si, which cost $16,500 new and I sold it two years later for $16k. I won't mention the 15+ other vehicles that I lost my a** on.
mrsbetsy
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by mrsbetsy »

Yes, we bought a Toyota Prius in 2010 about $1500 over list. It's been a great car. We call it "the truck" because it has hauled so many home improvement project supplies, bags of gardening supplies, etc. and it is still going strong and getting 50 miles to the gallon and have had zero problems with it.

Even though it only has 125K miles on it, I'm ready to replace it and it seems that we are back to paying over list. If you pay cash and keep your car for a long time like we do, then get what you want.
Sammy01
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by Sammy01 »

We recently paid more than MSRP for a Honda CR-V hybrid. It was a terrible time to buy mainly because we did not have a trade in. For anyone with a trade-in, the higher values should cancel out the mark-ups for the new cars. But we really needed a vehicle. It's like buying a house: you can't always time the market, usually the best time to buy is when you really need a place to live.

I don't regret it. We did our best. Shopped around to multiple dealerships, eventually went with one about an hour from home. Inventory was extremely low and we waited a few weeks but they delivered the vehicle they said they would, within their time estimate. There was really very little nonsense involved in the sale, like someone said above.

If you can wait, then wait. Prices will eventually improve, but we don't know when. If you really need a car like we did, then go through the negotiation a few times at different dealers and decide what you are willing to pay. It's basic supply and demand. MSRP is an arbitrary cut off.
finite_difference
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by finite_difference »

JackoC wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:58 am
finite_difference wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:39 pm
BernardShakey wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:27 pm
Arizonasun2008 wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:59 pm Once again, another car post but I looked in other posts and didn’t see the specific question asked. Has anyone purchased a car recently with a high markup, between 10-15k and have no regrets about it?

I am in the market for a Kia Telluride and as some may know, this vehicle’s demand is far exceeding its supply. It is possible for me to wait a year and place an order and then pay a $4k mark up fee or I could potentially get one off the lot for $10k over msrp.
I bought a 2021 Kia Telluride LX for my wife. The Telluride is a great vehicle, IMO the best of the non-luxury 3-row SUVs....safe, very reliable, great warranty, and tons of features even on the lower end LX model. Has about 9k miles on it and is in great shape.

Wife's 2009 Odyssey minivan was looking pretty shabby and has over 120,000 miles on it. We decided we didn't want to look like the Beverly Hillbillies anymore and didn't want to wait a couple more years to replace the van.

Yeah, I paid more for it than I would have liked, but so what? I paid more than I would have liked for a great steak dinner last night too.
I agree with your take.

A car can be worth more than its MSRP. The best cars are. So paying more than MSRP can completely make sense.

On the other hand, some cars are not worth a heavy discount off MSRP.

So as long as one shops around to get the market OTD price, it’s in the eye of the beholder to decide whether that price is worth it. A lot of the trims and options are subjective in value.

Not sure if people realize it, but Genesis/Hyundai/Kia are the same thing, like Lexus/Toyota and Acura/Honda. Lately they’ve been making cars that are kind of a cross between Genesis/Hyundai and badging them as Kia, and otherwise I think in general significantly upgrading Kia cars to be like a youthful/sporty version of Hyundai.
I agree the key is whether that's the best price, or the best one that can be uncovered with a reasonable effort (recalling pre-COVID threads of people's multi-month campaigns of throwing fits at various dealers all over a region to eventually get a little better deal... on a model by then perhaps anybody else could have walked in and gotten a better price on... :happy ). The sticking point might be whether another make/model closer to MSRP was as desirable as the first one further over MSRP, no easy solution to that. Likewise time value of waiting. Recently I shopped for seemingly not that similar cars, Lexus IS500 Performance Premium, Acura TLX Type S, Acura MDX Type S, Porsche Macan S. I finally got the Porsche on an order for MSRP (in Feb, comes next month recently confirmed it's finished and awaiting shipment) after the dealers of previous three wouldn't/couldn't take orders and held out at various prices $2-10k over MSRP. But I wouldn't call people who went for the relative best of the MSRP+ deals 'foolish'. I would admit the possibility that a not strictly rational stubborn reluctance on my part to have to say 'I paid more than MSRP' factored in. But also my rational assessment I didn't need the car right away, I didn't, would have rather had it right away. And just decided I preferred one to the others too.

To maybe nitpick, Genesis/Hyundai is the same as Lexus/Toyota from a corporate ownership POV although Hyundai started by selling Genesis at Hyundai dealerships rather than launching a separate network from the get go like Toyota did with Lexus; now there are some standalone Genesis dealerships. But Hyundai and Kia are not quite like that. They have a close alliance and Hyundai Motor Group is biggest (but minority) shareholder in Kia but they are not the same company. From a consumer POV it's of limited importance except it means no coordinated effort to appeal to different segments of the market. There's no pretense you should be getting something basic in a Kia you don't get in a Hyundai or vice versa like there is between a Hyundai/Genesis or Toyota/Lexus (price/luxury&refinement). Kia and Hyundai are both trying to produce a better mid market vehicle, admittedly with some stylistic difference, and that's not strictly duplicative (like it was when various GM brands offerings or Ford/Mercury where *so* farcically close to identical) because they are not strictly the same company.
Hyundai and Kia are much more intertwined than that. They are essentially operated and owned by the same chaebol. Kia’s parent company is Hyundai Motor Company. And Kia owns Hyundai subsidiaries. The key people and management drift from one to the other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia

I think they deliberately try not to directly compete and cannibalize each other’s sales. It has gotten a bit more blurred now that Kia is not the super barebones engine on wheels on frame covered in plastic.

The Kia Stinger uses the Hyundai/Genesis platform:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Stinger

The Kia Telluride is based on the Kia Sorento which is a sister vehicle to the Hyundai Santa Fe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Telluride
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whodidntante
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Re: Anyone buy a car with high mark up and have no regrets?

Post by whodidntante »

Once you get status with a car rental company you might be able to rent a Tahoe or similar for almost nothing. I have executive elite status with National and it's fantastic.

In this market I would probably buy a new Ford with shareholder pricing or I would scour the used market for an underpriced tank.
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