CFP Recommendation?

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Topic Author
iim7V7IM7
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:26 pm

CFP Recommendation?

Post by iim7V7IM7 »

Hi,

I am a long time follower of the forum namesake but this is my first posting here. Here is my question.

Can someone recommend a good fee for service CFP/Fiduciary to help us create a comprehensive financial plan for our retirement?

We live in NJ but given the virtual nature of the world these days, they could be located anywhere in the USA. For example when searching Garrett alone for pre-retirement planning there are > 150 CFPs listed. Picking one seems a daunting task. Advice from forum members here is most welcomed.

Background:

I am 60-years old and would like to retire in about 5-years. I am not married, but have a long-time domestic partner who also is 60 years old. Our situation is neither the most complex, nor is it the simplest. I have been considering seeking out a fee based CFP for a one time financial plan and not an AUM relationship (I feel once I have a plan that I can manage its implementation). I have searched on both the CFP website and on the Garrett Network and I see that CFPs either hide the cost of creating a comprehensive financial plan for us or are saying $5,000-$7,000 which sounded high to me (I suppose that is 2-4 days at $200-$400/hour) .

While I feel that I understand basics of portfolio management and asset allocation, I would like some sound advice on our deaccumulation period (e.g., when to take SSI, my pension lump sum or annuity, realistic income and expenses and assessment as to whether they support our goals, adjustments to potentially make etc.). Marriage is a possibility and I would like to understand the legal/financial impacts and benefits of that has on a plan as well.

Goals:

We are considering moving from the East Coast to somewhere out west in a single home when we retire. In the areas that we have been looking, it is likely that we will need to spend $700,000 to $900,000 on a home and will likely use the proceeds from selling both of our primary residences and summer cottage proceeds and perhaps some money from taxable savings to pay for our new home. I may consult a bit, but we are planning mostly on being retired, spend time with hobbies, travel a bunch and perhaps a part time job or volunteer of interest.

Here is a summary of our situation:

Tax Deferred Retirement Savings:
Me - 401k plan - $1,370,000 (Plan is through Fidelity and is a 60/40 asset allocation 500 Idx, Sm Cap Idx, Int'l Idx & Bond Idx)
Me - IRA - $49,000 (VTTVX)
Me - Roth IRA - $52,000 (VTTVX)

DP- IRA - $1,030,000 (VTTVX)
DP - Roth IRA - $5,000 (VTTVX)

Taxable Retirement Savings:
Me - Taxable Account - $250,000 (VTMFX)

Company Pensions:
Me - Either annuity payments of $5,200 to $6,200 month depending on survivor choice or $1,180,000 lump sum (in 2026)
DP - Lump Sum $150,000

SSI Benefits (at 67)
Me - $3,285/month
DP - $2,674/month

Homes:
Me - Primary Home ~$375,000 (~$51,000 left of mortgage)
DP - Primary Home ~ $300,000 (~$56,000 left on mortgage)
DP - Summer Cottage - $250,000 (no mortgage, being sold to family member next summer and will likely be invested in VTMFX)

I continue to max out my 401k and plan on transitioning my asset allocation to 50/50 stock/bond allocation by my retirement in 2026. My company has a long-term incentive plan that grants me stock shares. I pay tax on them like income the year that they are granted and I hold the shares for >12 months to reduce cap gains exposure. I put this money into VTMFX. Aside from growth, my 401k and Company Stock Grants (converted into taxable VTMFX) will be my main sources of retirement savings over the next 5 years. We also have liquid savings of about ~$100,000 that I keep in a money market.
whereskyle
Posts: 1899
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:29 am

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by whereskyle »

iim7V7IM7 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:22 am Hi,

I am a long time follower of the forum namesake but this is my first posting here. Here is my question.

Can someone recommend a good fee for service CFP/Fiduciary to help us create a comprehensive financial plan for our retirement?

We live in NJ but given the virtual nature of the world these days, they could be located anywhere in the USA. For example when searching Garrett alone for pre-retirement planning there are > 150 CFPs listed. Picking one seems a daunting task. Advice from forum members here is most welcomed.

Background:

I am 60-years old and would like to retire in about 5-years. I am not married, but have a long-time domestic partner who also is 60 years old. Our situation is neither the most complex, nor is it the simplest. I have been considering seeking out a fee based CFP for a one time financial plan and not an AUM relationship (I feel once I have a plan that I can manage its implementation). I have searched on both the CFP website and on the Garrett Network and I see that CFPs either hide the cost of creating a comprehensive financial plan for us or are saying $5,000-$7,000 which sounded high to me (I suppose that is 2-4 days at $200-$400/hour) .

While I feel that I understand basics of portfolio management and asset allocation, I would like some sound advice on our deaccumulation period (e.g., when to take SSI, my pension lump sum or annuity, realistic income and expenses and assessment as to whether they support our goals, adjustments to potentially make etc.). Marriage is a possibility and I would like to understand the legal/financial impacts and benefits of that has on a plan as well.

Goals:

We are considering moving from the East Coast to somewhere out west in a single home when we retire. In the areas that we have been looking, it is likely that we will need to spend $700,000 to $900,000 on a home and will likely use the proceeds from selling both of our primary residences and summer cottage proceeds and perhaps some money from taxable savings to pay for our new home. I may consult a bit, but we are planning mostly on being retired, spend time with hobbies, travel a bunch and perhaps a part time job or volunteer of interest.

Here is a summary of our situation:

Tax Deferred Retirement Savings:
Me - 401k plan - $1,370,000 (Plan is through Fidelity and is a 60/40 asset allocation 500 Idx, Sm Cap Idx, Int'l Idx & Bond Idx)
Me - IRA - $49,000 (VTTVX)
Me - Roth IRA - $52,000 (VTTVX)

DP- IRA - $1,030,000 (VTTVX)
DP - Roth IRA - $5,000 (VTTVX)

Taxable Retirement Savings:
Me - Taxable Account - $250,000 (VTMFX)

Company Pensions:
Me - Either annuity payments of $5,200 to $6,200 month depending on survivor choice or $1,180,000 lump sum (in 2026)
DP - Lump Sum $150,000

SSI Benefits (at 67)
Me - $3,285/month
DP - $2,674/month

Homes:
Me - Primary Home ~$375,000 (~$51,000 left of mortgage)
DP - Primary Home ~ $300,000 (~$56,000 left on mortgage)
DP - Summer Cottage - $250,000 (no mortgage, being sold to family member next summer and will likely be invested in VTMFX)

I continue to max out my 401k and plan on transitioning my asset allocation to 50/50 stock/bond allocation by my retirement in 2026. My company has a long-term incentive plan that grants me stock shares. I pay tax on them like income the year that they are granted and I hold the shares for >12 months to reduce cap gains exposure. I put this money into VTMFX. Aside from growth, my 401k and Company Stock Grants (converted into taxable VTMFX) will be my main sources of retirement savings over the next 5 years. We also have liquid savings of about ~$100,000 that I keep in a money market.
The advice-only registry might be worth considering: https://adviceonlyfinancial.com/

Rick Ferri is a dyed in the wool bogleheads adviser. You can find him and other advice-only/fee-for-service advisers that he interacts with on Twitter.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
Freefun
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:55 pm

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by Freefun »

Rick Ferri
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
stan1
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by stan1 »

iim7V7IM7 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:22 am I have searched on both the CFP website and on the Garrett Network and I see that CFPs either hide the cost of creating a comprehensive financial plan for us or are saying $5,000-$7,000 which sounded high to me (I suppose that is 2-4 days at $200-$400/hour) .
I think the fee is probably pretty close to the market rate if you want a customized plan which you might want because you have some choices about the pensions and source of funds for the future home. Also understanding the impact of potential marriage. If you want a cookie cutter plan or a plan without a lot of detail it will be less but you have some considerations that should be customized with what-if analysis unique to you and your partner. $200-400/hour is market rate for a professional who understands the complexities of investments, taxes, social security, health insurance. For example Rick Ferri, when he is available, charges $450/hour.

There may be some negotiation with an advisor over what level of customization is included in their base fee, vs what specific to your situation they would tack on as extra hours of work.

I listened to this podcast a few days ago by chance:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/cody-garret ... alidators/

It's not a recommendation for a specific advisor, but if you resonate with his term "DIY validator" you might find it interesting to listen to his business model (as well as validate what effort goes into a custom financial plan for someone like you that does not have a simple financial situation).
Topic Author
iim7V7IM7
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:26 pm

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by iim7V7IM7 »

Thank you for the input.

I have felt much more competent during our accumulation phase at saving, asset allocation and low cost, asset class based fund investment. Deaccumulation seems foreign to me. I know some of the old rules of thumb (e.g., plan for > 30 years, <=4% withdrawal rule, start with > 80% of current expenses etc.) but really could benefit from some qualified fiduciary advice. Once we have this, I feel comfortable in my ability to implement a plan.

The cost was not really unacceptable, it was knowing whom to select. Getting good advice in:

- probability of success ability to achieve our goals,
- when can we retire,
- realistic cash flow estimates,
- tax minimization strategies,
- when to take SSI,
- whether to take a pension annuity or lump sum,
- how much house we can afford,
- How much will we have for travel, hobbies etc.,
- Impact of marriage on the plan

all seem like invaluable advice for us from the right person.
tibbitts
Posts: 15736
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by tibbitts »

I believe advisers can be helpful, but you can't count on a plan you make to continue to be effective unless you review it frequently. In my case I didn't use an adviser, but had what would have been a good plan until about four years from retirement. Then changing circumstances that weren't obvious to me at the time got it off-track, but I didn't recognize that myself as quickly as a good adviser should have. So when you calculate the price, don't assume a one-time investments.
Sahara
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by Sahara »

You might explore https://planvisionmn.com/. The founder, Mark Zoril is a financial advisor, and Jason Lynch is a CPA. I don’t believe Mark is a CFP, but he provides comprehensive advice, access to Emoney and has a BH mindset.
Topic Author
iim7V7IM7
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:26 pm

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by iim7V7IM7 »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:19 pm I believe advisers can be helpful, but you can't count on a plan you make to continue to be effective unless you review it frequently. In my case I didn't use an adviser, but had what would have been a good plan until about four years from retirement. Then changing circumstances that weren't obvious to me at the time got it off-track, but I didn't recognize that myself as quickly as a good adviser should have. So when you calculate the price, don't assume a one-time investments.
I have had an accumulation plan to save as much as I felt that I could afford and a target asset allocation plan as I moved through life. What I have not had is a reconciliation of what we are likely to amass with our of our goals, a projected retirement date(s), trade-off analysis of future decisions on pension and SSI, insurance costs, asset allocation throughout the deaccumulation phase, cash flow and tax analysis. I am prepared to pay an advisor for this and recognize that it is just a well informed projection that may need to be revisited.
Jack FFR1846
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Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I would not assume 80% or any percentage of current income or spending as retirement spending. Do the actual work. Build yourself a spread sheet and think about each entry. You'll no longer have 3 houses to maintain and pay taxes on, but will have one expensive one. What will taxes be? Maintenance? HOA extortion? Will you want to travel more than you do now? What do you expect insurance to cost, keep in mind medicare is there, but it ain't free. I built myself a spread sheet because I wanted to know for sure. It turned out to have the travel expenses and for me Jeep offroading costs and is much different than I had assumed. More than the $50k that I thought (which is about what we spend now) but way less than the $160k+ that would have been the 80% income number.

I'll emphasize that you need to do this yourself before seeing a CFP. Otherwise, you're adding time to meeting or the CFP spends time with an educated guess that costs you a grand.

I would recommend that you and your partner see a lawyer first to get wills put together. Otherwise, should one of you go, the other gets nothing.

Looking at what you've put together, you really have a very good portfolio that's well set up and lacking all the garbage that typical FAs put in only for them to make is look like they're smarter than they are.

As far as removing money once in retirement, the wiki is quite good on this. Sure, if you screw up and remove too much and jump into a higher tax bracket, ok. So you pay an extra $12 in taxes because your highest bracket taxes you more. From your post, I think you can easily follow the wiki and figure out what your income is going to be and the tax bracket you get into. Remember that as you jump brackets, it's not the entire income that's taxed at that rate, it's just your income above the max of the previous bracket.

Others have made good recommendations to find a CFP. I've got to say that you don't need one and should review the wiki. Perhaps print out relevant sections and do a good review with a highlighter. If you do decide to use someone in Garrett, get a solid recommendation on that specific person first. I've see both good and horrible reviews about various CFPs in that network.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
tibbitts
Posts: 15736
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Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by tibbitts »

iim7V7IM7 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:31 am
tibbitts wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:19 pm I believe advisers can be helpful, but you can't count on a plan you make to continue to be effective unless you review it frequently. In my case I didn't use an adviser, but had what would have been a good plan until about four years from retirement. Then changing circumstances that weren't obvious to me at the time got it off-track, but I didn't recognize that myself as quickly as a good adviser should have. So when you calculate the price, don't assume a one-time investments.
I have had an accumulation plan to save as much as I felt that I could afford and a target asset allocation plan as I moved through life. What I have not had is a reconciliation of what we are likely to amass with our of our goals, a projected retirement date(s), trade-off analysis of future decisions on pension and SSI, insurance costs, asset allocation throughout the deaccumulation phase, cash flow and tax analysis. I am prepared to pay an advisor for this and recognize that it is just a well informed projection that may need to be revisited.
Regardless of whether you have an adviser, you need to have already done all those things for yourselves. You're only going to get one opinion from an adviser, and if you haven't done all that work already, you'll still just have one opinion. If it's easy for you to miss something about yourself and your own situation, and it is, consider how easy it would be for someone who doesn't know anything about you to miss something. Ideally, you and the adviser will come up with mostly similar plans, and where they might not be similar you'll both agree on why and what to do about it.
dbr
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Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by dbr »

The catch-22 with advisors is that when you know enough to evaluate what your are hearing you know enough that you don't need an advisor. Another catch-22 is that generally investors can't afford to pay what advisors need to earn to stay in business. Probably there are a few people who have managed a business model that gets past this. It is possible Vanguard PAS is one such, but I have no experience to actually make a recommendation.

Unfortunately the nature of advising is that it is a very good idea to be able to evaluate what you are hearing. There are just too many of these folks that can't be trusted.

You may find some people here who will name names. I personally have never met an advisor I would recommend to anyone and I would not recommend someone in particular without actually knowing them very well personally. There are some names floated here on the forum from time to time.
HomeStretch
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Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by HomeStretch »

I don’t have a CFP recommendation. But consider posting your specific questions on this forum for feedback before your meeting with a CFP.

For best feedback, post in a new thread in the “Asking Portfolio Questions” format found here:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Asking_ ... _questions

You have already provided most of the financial information needed but would need to add your Federal/state marginal tax rates, state, whether your pension receives cost-of-living adjustments and is well funded, and your projected annual retirement expenses (including income taxes, healthcare and periodic expenses such as a new car or major house project/repair).
iim7V7IM7 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:22 am … I would like some sound advice on our deaccumulation period (e.g., when to take SSI …
Opensocialsecurity.com may be helpful in determining the best social security claiming strategy for you and your partner.
…Marriage is a possibility and I would like to understand the legal/financial impacts and benefits of that has on a plan as well. …
A CFP can provide financial advice but seek an experienced estate and trust attorney for legal advice. You may need several iterations of estate documents if your state of residence or marital status changes.
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Eagle33
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Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by Eagle33 »

When I was thinking about retirement, I found that "How to Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide" by Jane Quinn Bryant helped me understand the scope and main financial components of preparing for retirement. I decided to advise myself and use Bogleheads when looking for clarification.
Rocket science is not “rocket science” to a rocket scientist, just as personal finance is not “rocket science” to a Boglehead.
afan
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Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by afan »

I think the world of Rick Ferri but I do not believe he does general financial planning. As best I can tell, he would give you great advice about your portfolio and investing plans. He would not tell you how to manage your overall financial life.

Allen Roth would be great. He is expensive and it will take quite a while to actually work with him.

The finance buff has a referral service for finding hourly fee advisors.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
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JonL
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: CFP Recommendation?

Post by JonL »

whereskyle wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:45 am
The advice-only registry might be worth considering: https://adviceonlyfinancial.com/
+1.

Limiting your search to an advice-only financial planner helps you steer clear of AUM advisors providing advice as a thinly-disguised sales pitch for expensive asset management services.

Full disclosure: I'm an advice-only financial planner - yet I chose this model because I think it's the best way to help the most people. :happy

I hope that helps.

Good luck!
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