Volvo opinions?

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bertilak
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Volvo opinions?

Post by bertilak »

Anyone have experience with recent Volvos? I would appreciate any opinions, good and bad.

I rented a XC90 a year ago on a visit to a relative in another city. I liked it. The XC60 is a bit cheaper and seems to be their most popular model.

I may be thinking about Volvos for the wrong reason: nostalgia. I owned a mid-60s Volvo wagon way back in the mid '70s. I bought it used but it treated me right! I only sold it because I was moving cross-country and didn't want to bother with shipping an older, used, model. My wife and I each had a car and my company would only pay to ship one car. Hers was newer.

A story: A cop pulled me over for speeding. He admonished me for going down hill so fast with the poor brakes old cars had. I told him MY old car had disk brakes with brand new pads and the invoice for the recent brake job was right in the glove compartment! He let me go with a warning.
Last edited by bertilak on Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Super Hans
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by Super Hans »

I have a 2021 XC60 through "Care by Volvo". It's very expensive, though the deal doesn't look so bad now that this car market has gotten even more ridiculous. CbV is a two-year lease with the option of terminating after five months with no penalty. If you're on the fence, this could be a nice extended test drive. I really like the car at month ~8.

Much like you, I rented V90CCs on a few vacations over the past couple of years and enjoyed them. We settled on the XC60 because my wife likes the higher profile and our family of three doesn't need all the space of a 90. My only complaint is that the proprietary navigation isn't very good, making the heads-up display much less useful. But the 2022 models are supposed to have Google Maps. At ~10k miles, I haven't had any problems with the car. Autopilot is entertaining (e.g., watching the steering wheel turn itself on curves). I ended up with a T5 engine instead of T6, even though the price difference ultimately was minimal. I was disappointed when realizing this after signing, but the reality is the B5 seems ample for the 60. According to the car's calculations, I've been doing consistently better than 30 mpg on the highway--burning premium gas.
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Post by Picasso »

Following as I am interested in a V90 Cross Country wagon
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by z0r »

I own a 2005 (p2) v70, non-lifted, non-turbo, non-awd. it's been an impressively durable and maintainable car. sorry this isn't very relevant since they had such a big redesign a few years ago but I'm thinking of buying one of the post-redesign ones on the strength of the p2
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by bertilak »

Super Hans wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:33 pm I have a 2021 XC60 through "Care by Volvo". It's very expensive, though the deal doesn't look so bad now that this car market has gotten even more ridiculous. CbV is a two-year lease with the option of terminating after five months with no penalty. If you're on the fence, this could be a nice extended test drive. I really like the car at month ~8.

Much like you, I rented V90CCs on a few vacations over the past couple of years and enjoyed them. We settled on the XC60 because my wife likes the higher profile and our family of three doesn't need all the space of a 90. My only complaint is that the proprietary navigation isn't very good, making the heads-up display much less useful. But the 2022 models are supposed to have Google Maps. At ~10k miles, I haven't had any problems with the car. Autopilot is entertaining (e.g., watching the steering wheel turn itself on curves). I ended up with a T5 engine instead of T6, even though the price difference ultimately was minimal. I was disappointed when realizing this after signing, but the reality is the B5 seems ample for the 60. According to the car's calculations, I've been doing consistently better than 30 mpg on the highway--burning premium gas.
Thanks. Good info.

Google maps is a big deal, I think. When I compare the primitive navigation system in my VW Passat to Google I can see where it can make a difference.

What other differences are there between XC60 and XC90, besides body style?

Do you recommend an upgraded engine package?
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by bellevueperson »

Wife is leasing a 2021 XC40 recharge. Lease is expensive and have heard about Volvos being expensive to maintain in the long run. The car is quick, handles pretty well, and is fairly spacious for our two toddlers and small dog, but the main downside is the Google infotainment system. Doesn't pair well with the iPhone and will occasionally stop working suddenly. Range is in the low-200's. Interior feels nicer than a model Y but overall prefer the Mach-E I just got.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by friar1610 »

I’m on my 4th Volvo.j I’ve had 3 wagons: 1987 240, 2005 XC-70 and my current 2015 XC-70. I also had a mid-90s 740 sedan. My daughter has an XC-90 about 2 years old. I bought both the XC-70s as low mileage used cars. The other 2 were new. XC-70s are the perfect vehicle for us. I actually bought the 2015 as my “last chance” for one as 2016 was the last production year.

Before we bought the 2015 we looked at both XC-60s and V-60 AWDs. The XC-60 was OK. THE V-60 was fine in the front seat but the back seat was too cramped. The cargo area was also way too small. I’ve been very happy with the current XC-70 although Volvo no longer produces that engine. I’ve driven my daughter’s XC-90 but it’s really too big for me although it’s a very nice vehicle. The Turbo 4 cylinder seems to be sufficient even for such a big tank.

I’m at the age where my driving days may be winding down If I were to replace the XC-70 I’d look at the new S-60 (much better looking than what it replaced), the XC-60, the Subaru Outback and maybe the Mazda 5 series SUV. (Volvo may be pricing themselves out of my range.)

You are likely aware that Volvo maintenance can be pricey at dealerships - I go to an independent shop. They’re still not a philanthropic organization but better than the dealer.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by bertilak »

bellevueperson wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:11 pm Wife is leasing a 2021 XC40 recharge. Lease is expensive and have heard about Volvos being expensive to maintain in the long run. The car is quick, handles pretty well, and is fairly spacious for our two toddlers and small dog, but the main downside is the Google infotainment system. Doesn't pair well with the iPhone and will occasionally stop working suddenly. Range is in the low-200's. Interior feels nicer than a model Y but overall prefer the Mach-E I just got.
This is pairing your phone with Google running on it to your car's nav system? I assume the car has a built-in nav system and the above mention was that for 2022 Volvo would have Google's nav built in. I'm not sure I understand.

What is Mach-E?
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by onourway »

We have owned many over the years, although our current newest is a '13 XC70. That one has been flawless - 130k on it now and it has never needed anything other than oil, tires, and brakes - despite having every bell and whistle offered at the time.

We are kind of waiting for Volvo to extend their plug-in electric/full electric offerings to include the wagons and hopefully more range than the piddling 15 miles or so the XC90 PHEV offers.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by BoxOfUpticks »

My big beef with Volvo is the 'ipad dash'. I strongly prefer physical buttons that i can feel without taking my eyes off the road. Personal preference.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by dukeblue219 »

bertilak wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:26 pm
What is Mach-E?
Ford Mach-E electric SUV.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by Super Hans »

To clarify the navigation a bit, I can plug in my iPhone and the Google Maps will come up on the big screen in the middle of the dashboard on my 2021 XC60. But you can't get the Google Maps directions to appear in the "heads up" displayed on the windshield. That only works with the Volvo proprietary navigation. I understand that the Google Maps will come up on the windscreen in 2022 models, though I haven't done a test drive yet. An issue presumably for any heads up display is that you can't use polarized sunglasses, so I keep dedicated driving sunglasses in the glove box.

The T5 engine seems adequate to me in the 60, probably would be sluggish in the bigger 90. The XC60 trunk space is a little tight for trips, but there's ample passenger space for the three of us. The little one still uses a booster seat and isn't able to avail herself of the heated rear seats yet.
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Post by UpperNwGuy »

My nephew will only drive Volvos. He loves them.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by bradinsky »

I loved our Volvo 740, which we had in the 90s. My beef now is they are owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group (Geely), which is a company located in the Peoples Republic of China.
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Post by randomguy »

bradinsky wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:20 pm I loved our Volvo 740, which we had in the 90s. My beef now is they are owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group (Geely), which is a company located in the Peoples Republic of China.
Geely was the best thing to happen to Volvo. Compare the product they are putting out now versus when they were owned by the americans....

The big complaint with Volvo is always that they are german level of expense to keep on the road these days. If you are used to Toyota/Lexus it can be a bit shocking. But they also don't catch on fire and blow up at 60k like some posters seem to think. You run into this same discussion with things like Tesla, BMW, MB, Ford, and the rest where some people are worried that they aren't toyota level reliability while others go they are reliable enough.
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Post by yatesd »

bradinsky wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:20 pm I loved our Volvo 740, which we had in the 90s. My beef now is they are owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group (Geely), which is a company located in the Peoples Republic of China.
I believe this is my issue, I usually prioritize American owned, American made, or at least owned by a US ally. On a side note, I am concerned about the major shift that is occurring as we transition to EV’s. The list of manufacturers by market share doesn’t even tell the whole story…Foxconn has investments with Geely, Fisker, Lordstown, Stellantis, and is also making their own skateboards. For those who don’t know Foxconn is the world’s largest manufacturer with about a 1,000,000 employees.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automake ... arket-cap/
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Post by newyorker »

Volvo cars are a bit old in interior design (2017 interior design. Not too bad but definitely not modern) and some cars are made in China. I wouldnt buy them myself.
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Post by Picasso »

onourway wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:29 pm We are kind of waiting for Volvo to extend their plug-in electric/full electric offerings to include the wagons and hopefully more range than the piddling 15 miles or so the XC90 PHEV offers.
This is exactly where we are at as well. Once Volvo offers the V90 as a plug-in or EV, we are pulling the trigger.
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Post by z0r »

randomguy wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:31 pm
bradinsky wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:20 pm I loved our Volvo 740, which we had in the 90s. My beef now is they are owned by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group (Geely), which is a company located in the Peoples Republic of China.
Geely was the best thing to happen to Volvo. Compare the product they are putting out now versus when they were owned by the americans....

The big complaint with Volvo is always that they are german level of expense to keep on the road these days. If you are used to Toyota/Lexus it can be a bit shocking. But they also don't catch on fire and blow up at 60k like some posters seem to think. You run into this same discussion with things like Tesla, BMW, MB, Ford, and the rest where some people are worried that they aren't toyota level reliability while others go they are reliable enough.
my v70 has 189k miles. no more maintenance needed than any car at that age. part for part, oem or oem-quality repair parts have been cheaper than toyota because there are multiple discount retailers for Volvo but there aren't for Toyota. labor can kill you at a dealer or "euro" shop though
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Post by anoop »

Spend some time here and you'll learn a lot about current models.
https://www.swedespeed.com/forums/

Whenever I spend time there, I don't feel like getting one because of the many problem people report. Recently, there appear to be comments about de-contenting in the newer models.

They do have the best seats in the business, though.
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Post by RootSki »

I’ve been only driving Volvo’s since I got my first XC60 in 2010. Great cars, built like tanks. Superior seats to anything else. Great ergonomics with controls. I’m currently in a 2019 XC60 T8 with Pilot Assist (amazing cuts down on driving fatigue on long drives) air suspension and Bowers & Wilkins sound system (maybe the best factory sound in a mass produced car). I’m currently averaging over 100mpg. The Hybrid Drive system is very smart and clever. I’ve had zero issues with my 2019 and I’m just over 30,000 miles.

The from 2016-2021, the infotainment system was powered by Sensus, a very good albeit sometimes clunky system. 2019 model year is the sweet spot on the XC60 as Sensus got a processor upgrade. I believe there was some decontenting in 2020 (power rear seat folding from trunk removed). Maybe some other non everyday features. I didn’t really track what got changed. 2022 models come with Google Automotive as the infotainment system and there are lots of issues (Apple CarPlay doesn’t work yet). People are reporting spontaneous reboots of the system while driving, Volvo OnCall app disconnects from the car. Chip shortages are limiting some features currently like 360° camera might be hard to come by (I use this feature everyday and would miss it greatly).

Sweedespeed is a great resource for getting more in-depth.
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Post by bertilak »

anoop wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:52 am Spend some time here and you'll learn a lot about current models.
https://www.swedespeed.com/forums/

Whenever I spend time there, I don't feel like getting one because of the many problem people report. Recently, there appear to be comments about de-contenting in the newer models.

They do have the best seats in the business, though.
Thanks for the sweedspeed pointer. I took a quick look and, if I ever get a Volvo, I will probably go there often.

There seem to be a lot of complaints about the "infotainment" update to Google. Lots of teething problems!
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Post by westie »

they used to be nice cars with few problems, not so much from what I read anymore. Daughter bought a 4 year old Volvo and has spent $4,000 so far in repairs - $1200 for just a sunroof problem. Not for me.
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Post by antiqueman »

I have owned 8 Volvos over past 30 years. I drive a 2011 S 80 with 190000 miles.


My wife drives a 2019 XC 60 .

I have also owned a 300 Turbo Mercedes. And a
Lexus.

Love the Mercedes but after warranty expired repair cost was
We’re horrendous. I didn’t like the Lexus.

Yes there will be expensive repairs on a Volvo. But repairs to my Volvos were less than Mercedes snd Lexus repairs.

I Am honk you should seriously consider the Volvo.
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Post by boatdriver79 »

We've had Volvo's since the 80's. I think we've owned 6 or 7 of them.
We were in two serious accidents where someone hit us head on and then another where my wife got T-Boned. Both times the cars were totalled but we walked away without a scratch. The other drivers, not so lucky.

Obviously we love the cars. Their technology isnt the greatest though. But the car is sweet and will last a long time.
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Post by FireSekr »

I’ve been considering one because I love the design. I only need something the size of the xc60, but after a test drive, I found the ride to be unnecessarily harsh, and too much road noise. The xc90 was much more refined, but I don’t need the space. I tend to prefer a stiff ride, but I don’t like when it’s harsh.

For perspective, my current daily driver is a BMW M5 and it rides much better than the xc60 even though it is much more athletic, and there’s less road and wind noise.

The engines in both Volvos were unrefined as well. I have serious concerns about long term reliability, and Volvos ranking on consumer reports seems to confirm this. Back when Volvo nearly went bankrupt about 10 years ago, they made the decision that their next line of engines would all be based off a 2.0 litre 4 cylinder. Rather than making bigger engines for larger vehicles they just add more bolt ons for more power. Have a base model? You get a naturally aspirated 4 (not available in the US). Have a bigger or higher trim model? Add a turbo. Have a higher end model than that? You get a turbo and super charger. Top model gets turbo, super charger, and electric motors. None of this is a good sign for long term reliability.


After test driving the two Volvos I went over to the Mercedes and BMW dealers to test drive the GLC, GLE, and X3 and x5. They all were much more refined than the Volvos, better ride, better build quality, and much better engines for very similar price. Cost of repair for the 3 brands is essentially the same, and Mercedes’ and BMW are more reliable.

I’ve realized that the only thing the Volvo really has going for it is the interior and exterior styling and the Bowers & Wilkins sound system.
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I have removed a series of discussion about Taiwan. Stay on topic about cars.
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Post by BalancedJCB19 »

I never owned a Volvo but always love them from afar. My friend had one years ago and I was going to get one back then. He said he loved the car but it is very expensive to fix because you need to get their parts. That was over 20 years ago so not sure if that changed. Just something to consider.
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Post by cainxinth »

"Volvo: They're boxy, but they're good."
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Post by randomguy »

FireSekr wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:10 pm I’ve been considering one because I love the design. I only need something the size of the xc60, but after a test drive, I found the ride to be unnecessarily harsh, and too much road noise. The xc90 was much more refined, but I don’t need the space. I tend to prefer a stiff ride, but I don’t like when it’s harsh.

For perspective, my current daily driver is a BMW M5 and it rides much better than the xc60 even though it is much more athletic, and there’s less road and wind noise.
Comparing a sports sedan to a Crossover isn't exactly fair:) Road noise and harshness is pretty personal AND a lot of times it comes down to what tires and packages you get installed. Depending on what you are looking for often times the lower end packages with smaller tires give a nicer ride.. Start throughing in active dampening, sports packages and the rest of the option list you can get a whole different experience. I sort of agree about the smaller engines but that is pretty much the standard these days for these compact SUVs. Unless you are buying the AMG/M series you are getting a turbo 4 in this class. And if you are getting up into those price ranges, I might prefer the plug in hybrid model. It is a CUV. I care a heck of a lot more about MPG than the driving experience:)
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Post by z0r »

BalancedJCB19 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:30 am I never owned a Volvo but always love them from afar. My friend had one years ago and I was going to get one back then. He said he loved the car but it is very expensive to fix because you need to get their parts. That was over 20 years ago so not sure if that changed. Just something to consider.
parts costs are complicated. if you take a volvo to a "euro" shop or a dealer, you'll get killed on parts costs because they tend to build a huge part of their profit into parts markups. if you do your own work, oem or oem-quality volvo parts are usually less expensive than toyota parts. For example, I just did motor mounts on both my prius and my v70. The V70 has five mounts, the prius has three. A full set of V70 mounts was cheaper than the full set of Prius mounts because IPD and FCP euro compete pretty well with each other and drive pricing down for good euro aftermarket stuff (usually oem supplier parts with the volvo stamp dremeled off). The prius mounts were more expensive because toyota has some sort of weird policy of keeping oem retail part pricing high (if anyone can explain this, please do, it's starting to really bother me).
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by ShaftoesSpreadsheet »

I had a 2008 S80 - beautiful car inside and out. It was front wheel drive and the weight distribution was very front heavy. I guess that design is good for safety, but it was not a driver's car in terms of handling or power. Speaking of which Volvo used to dominate in the safety department but now almost all manufacturers have caught up in that regard. So they pivoted to a more classy image but not over the top "look at me" like other high end brands.

Owning a used Volvo kept me up at night at times with worries about maintenance cost, in spite of an independent shop just down the road. That was the main reason I sold mine and got an Outback - the ground clearance is better, safety rating was the same, Subaru's AWD is incredible, AWD is arguably safer in single car wrecks, and the total cost of ownership is much lower.
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Post by FoolStreet »

I love how Volvo has embraced electric cars. Once you get one with a plug, then you can really reduce the gas you use. Most cars are used for around town which can be charged up over night from your garage. For longer trips, you either have charging infrastructure or hybrid mode with gives better gas mileage. Big Volvo fan for their electric leadership.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by Valuethinker »

bertilak wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:55 am Anyone have experience with recent Volvos? I would appreciate any opinions, good and bad.

I rented a XC90 a year ago on a visit to a relative in another city. I liked it. The XC60 is a bit cheaper and seems to be their most popular model.

I may be thinking about Volvos for the wrong reason: nostalgia. I owned a mid-60s Volvo wagon way back in the mid '70s. I bought it used but it treated me right! I only sold it because I was moving cross-country and didn't want to bother with shipping an older, used, model. My wife and I each had a car and my company would only pay to ship one car. Hers was newer.

A story: A cop pulled me over for speeding. He admonished me for going down hill so fast with the poor brakes old cars had. I told him MY old car had disk brakes with brand new pads and the invoice for the recent brake job was right in the glove compartment! He let me go with a warning.
Re nostalgia. If you want that kind of Volvo then buy a Volvo of that era. It's not reflective of what Volvos are now.

They were way ahead in safety. Others have caught up. They were reliable, then (1970s & 80s) they were not. Not sure now (but they had a reputation for being very expensive repairs).

Cars re not as differentiated on safety as they were.

It will be an expensive own. I suspect relatively high depreciation. When it does need fixing, it will be expensive (out of warranty).

If you want a car for the next 5 years, the boring old Japanese probably do it. If you want luxury, then a Lexus. For low cost, probably a Korean?

A Volvo is a choice to have a "different" car but how much does that matter to you? Consider also BMW (although the status "signal" a BMW sends can be very different).

The bigger problem is after that 5 years, because EVs are going to be very big - even in the USA they will be big. It's hard to jump that technology change - what cars are and how we "fuel" them will be very different in 10 years time (even though there will be a huge tail legacy of ICE cars). A plug in hybrid (PHEV) has a degree of "future proofing" but will be significantly more expensive?

An EV has intrinsically far simpler drivetrain - one estimate I saw is 1/3rd fewer parts. Thus they will be more reliable. The industry is going to undergo an earthquake.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by frequentT »

We currently own a 2012 C30 and a 2018 XC90. Both of these have performed well.

The SUV is our long distance and camping vehicle. It has taken us coast to coast several times in great comfort. It currently has almost 50K mile and doing fine. I appreciate the many modcons and safety features.

The C30 is more of an around town car and also runs well. Volvo did not understand how to market the C30 in the USA and it was discontinued.

I also owned and 1985 242 for 18 years. What a workhorse. Still going strong when I sold it with 225K.

So, I understand the nostalgia.
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by illumination »

One of my favorite cars of all time was the Volvo 240 I owned. Such an iconic and well made vehicle. I would love it if the "old" Volvo still made something similar.

That being said, the Volvo name now is essentially just licensed to a Chinese company, Geely. I wouldnt own a Volvo, they are made to be leased imo. Terrible resale. Maybe unfair, but I felt their dealerships were nowhere near the level of service of something like a Lexus or Mercedes dealership.

Here is a reliability report from Consumer Reports via Forbes, its around the bottom third.


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Post by friar1610 »

illumination wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:47 am One of my favorite cars of all time was the Volvo 240 I owned. Such an iconic and well made vehicle. I would love it if the "old" Volvo still made something similar.
I had an ‘87 240 wagon and liked it a lot. I moved to Maine for 3 years during that period and was quite surprised to find it was not very good in the snow. I had just assumed that a stick shift from Sweden would perform better in that kind of weather. Of course, these days so many cars - Volvos included - are AWD so that’s less of a problem. My 2005 XC-70 did well in Vermont (half the state drove XC-70s or Subaru Outbacks.)
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by Tamarind »

One of my parents was a mechanical engineer who worked for Volvo their whole career (though in the Truck, Heavy, and IT divisions). In the 80s and 90s the family drove Volvos exclusively.
I learned to drive on a great old Volvo 940.

After the car division was sold off, parent stopped buying them, based on opinion from engineer friends of the changes made to the design. The last decade I don't think they've paid attention - they drive Hyundais now.

A modern Volvo car may be a fine vehicle, but it does not share design DNA with the Volvos of the 60s or 70s. Should be judged on their own merits.
Firemenot
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by Firemenot »

They are very expensive to fix. And they don’t part out the cars sensibly like Honda or Toyota. So often you need to buy large part assemblies just to fix one little part that broke. Maintenance costs will be much higher than a Toyota or Honda if you hang onto past 100,000 miles.

And the mechanics that work on Volvos usually charge a premium on their hourly rates. I will never own one again. That being said, I did like my modern-era Volvo aside from the additional maintenance headaches and costs. My experience with Volvo turned me into a Honda/Toyota person.
illumination
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by illumination »

friar1610 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:38 pm
illumination wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:47 am One of my favorite cars of all time was the Volvo 240 I owned. Such an iconic and well made vehicle. I would love it if the "old" Volvo still made something similar.
I had an ‘87 240 wagon and liked it a lot. I moved to Maine for 3 years during that period and was quite surprised to find it was not very good in the snow. I had just assumed that a stick shift from Sweden would perform better in that kind of weather. Of course, these days so many cars - Volvos included - are AWD so that’s less of a problem. My 2005 XC-70 did well in Vermont (half the state drove XC-70s or Subaru Outbacks.)
Yea, I feel like almost any car with rear wheel drive and no traction control in that era was terrible in rain and snow.
Ricola
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Re: Volvo opinions?

Post by Ricola »

Can't talk about the new ones. I still have 1992 940 in the garage, not driven much but now. Hard time thinking about selling such a nice car for just a few thousand dollars... nostalgic too. My independent Volvo mechanic quit years ago when the newer front-wheel-drive models were coming out. Too complex and expensive to repair. I would not consider buying a new one now for many of the reasons stated on this thread.
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bertilak
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Post by bertilak »

Thanks for all the opinions -- and facts -- and experiences. I think I may have hit the nail on the head in my OP. Nostalgia is not the best of reasons and, from what I read here, nostalgia is not even applicable. I need to rethink things before taking any action.

Consumer reports has some significant info but, going back years, I have been a bit suspicious of their opinions! Maybe I should think about BMW. Maybe I'll stick with VW as VWs have been good to me for many years, despite CR not liking them!

The VW Passat I have is OK, but I do have a few dislikes: primitive electronics, engine and clutch are a big downgrade from the diesel I had.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
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