Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

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tomsense76
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Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by tomsense76 »

Frequently it comes up that one should get renters insurance once they have a significant amount saved up. IIUC to protect against large liabilities (a bad car accident involving someone for example). However AIUI umbrella insurance is attached to other kinds of insurance like homeowners insurance or auto insurance.

This raises the question, can one even get umbrella insurance if they do not own a home or car? If so, how? Could it be attached to renter's insurance for example? If it can be gotten, what is it covering for someone who doesn't drive or own a home? What risks would one be protecting against where this would be useful?

Thanks in advance for your feedback :sharebeer
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ResearchMed
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by ResearchMed »

tomsense76 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:46 pm Frequently it comes up that one should get renters insurance once they have a significant amount saved up. IIUC to protect against large liabilities (a bad car accident involving someone for example). However AIUI umbrella insurance is attached to other kinds of insurance like homeowners insurance or auto insurance.

This raises the question, can one even get umbrella insurance if they do not own a home or car? If so, how? Could it be attached to renter's insurance for example? If it can be gotten, what is it covering for someone who doesn't drive or own a home? What risks would one be protecting against where this would be useful?

Thanks in advance for your feedback :sharebeer
Yes, it renter's insurance is fine with an umbrella policy. (There are some very expensive rentals around, and those people have lots to protect, etc.!)

You'd be covered if someone tripped over the corner of your throw rug, for example. Umbrella coverage usually isn't expensive, because it's rarely actually used. But when it IS needed... you'd really want to have it.

RM
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tomsense76
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by tomsense76 »

ResearchMed wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:06 pm Yes, it renter's insurance is fine with an umbrella policy. (There are some very expensive rentals around, and those people have lots to protect, etc.!)

You'd be covered if someone tripped over the corner of your throw rug, for example. Umbrella coverage usually isn't expensive, because it's rarely actually used. But when it IS needed... you'd really want to have it.

RM
Oh great! Thank you :sharebeer

Gotcha ok. So it is mainly focused on issues in the apartment then?

If one were to get a car later, would that auto policy then need its own umbrella insurance attached to it? Or could one get an umbrella policy covering both the rental and the car?
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tomsense76
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by tomsense76 »

Snowbird501 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:45 pm RLI.
https://www.rlicorp.com/pup-apps-rates
This seems to be targeted towards property owners/drivers. Am I missing something here?

https://www.rlicorp.com/pup-qualify
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boglerdude
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by boglerdude »

Just max your renters policy. All the risk comes from driving.
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Lee_WSP »

You typically need an auto policy to get umbrella. It's probably easier to just get a renters with the liability limits you desire.
Kinkajou82
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Kinkajou82 »

Thanks for asking this question. When I inquited with my home insurance provider they told me I couldn't get Umbrella Insurance from them because I didn't have auto insurance. (I don't drive.)

They suggested I just increase the liability limit on my home policy to 1 million. Would that be almost as good as an actual umbrella policy?
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Lee_WSP »

Kinkajou82 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:02 am Thanks for asking this question. When I inquited with my home insurance provider they told me I couldn't get Umbrella Insurance from them because I didn't have auto insurance. (I don't drive.)

They suggested I just increase the liability limit on my home policy to 1 million. Would that be almost as good as an actual umbrella policy?
If all you want is 1 million in coverage, yes. Otherwise, find a different issuer or see if they'll underwrite a special policy for you.
Sugarloafer
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Sugarloafer »

Depending on the policy you buy, the personal liability coverage provided by the Renters policy could extend outside of the home - hitting someone in the head with a golf ball at the driving range or your dog biting someone at the park are good examples.

Most renters policies will max out at $1,000,000 (some at $500,000). If that is not enough coverage, then you can buy an “excess liability” policy from an insurance agent. An Excess extends only one policy while an Umbrella sits over multiple polices - Home/Condo/Renter, Auto, Boat, ATV, etc.
chemocean
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by chemocean »

Sugarloafer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:26 am An Excess extends only one policy while an Umbrella sits over multiple polices - Home/Condo/Renter, Auto, Boat, ATV, etc.
Umbrella probably "sits over" only the policy covered by that same insurance company. Many on this forum have bundled home/auto with umbrella with the same insurance company. Our umbrella insurance premiums fluctuate based on changes in the underlying policies (going from two cars to one car reduces the umbrella premiums a little). If you buy a car and get the auto insurance from the same company as your renters insurance, your umbrella insurance will go up.
IowaFarmBoy
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

Do you every rent cars or drive someone else's? If so, you may want the umbrella policy to cover you against those risks, too. You may need to get a "use of non-owned car" policy to cover the first level of liability risk that is normally covered by the policy on a car you own.
talzara
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by talzara »

chemocean wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:13 am
Sugarloafer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:26 am An Excess extends only one policy while an Umbrella sits over multiple polices - Home/Condo/Renter, Auto, Boat, ATV, etc.
Umbrella probably "sits over" only the policy covered by that same insurance company. Many on this forum have bundled home/auto with umbrella with the same insurance company. Our umbrella insurance premiums fluctuate based on changes in the underlying policies (going from two cars to one car reduces the umbrella premiums a little). If you buy a car and get the auto insurance from the same company as your renters insurance, your umbrella insurance will go up.
Umbrella policies attach to all underlying policies, regardless of insurer.

In fact, this is why many refuse to write umbrellas over other companies' policies. They want to control the defense. If they write over another company's primary policy, then they can't control what the primary insurer will do.

However, if the insurer will write you an umbrella, then you're covered for excess auto and homeowners risk. GEICO and Progressive only require auto insurance to be carried with them, and they'll accept another company's homeowners policy. Standalone insurers like RLI and USLI will write over other companies' auto and homeowners policies.
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by talzara »

Lee_WSP wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:21 am If all you want is 1 million in coverage, yes. Otherwise, find a different issuer or see if they'll underwrite a special policy for you.
In theory, State Farm will write you a renter's policy with more than $1 million of liability coverage.

In practice, agents only have binding authority for up to $1 million. Every application above $1 million has to go through underwriting, and they don't seem to approve many policies. I can't find the thread, but there was a Boglehead who tried to buy a couple million dollars of liability coverage and got turned down by underwriting.
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by miket29 »

tomsense76 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:46 pm it can be gotten, what is it covering for someone who doesn't drive or own a home? What risks would one be protecting against where this would be useful?
I have an umbrella policy that also provides $1 million in uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage to me. My worry is I'm riding my bike and someone with just the CA minimum liability coverage of $15K runs me over. If I survive then just saying hello to the ER doc is going to hit $15K in charges and its up from there, not to mention other long-term costs for rehabilitation and the like. I like the protection against claims filed against me the umbrella policy provides and for that alone is worth buying umbrella policy, but my main concern was other drivers out there. This would also protect you if you are a passenger in a car.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by ResearchMed »

talzara wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:57 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:21 am If all you want is 1 million in coverage, yes. Otherwise, find a different issuer or see if they'll underwrite a special policy for you.
In theory, State Farm will write you a renter's policy with more than $1 million of liability coverage.

In practice, agents only have binding authority for up to $1 million. Every application above $1 million has to go through underwriting, and they don't seem to approve many policies. I can't find the thread, but there was a Boglehead who tried to buy a couple million dollars of liability coverage and got turned down by underwriting.
It must depend upon the circumstances... perhaps the person requesting the high coverage or perhaps due to state insurance regulations?

We had an unusually high umbrella policy for our vacation rentals. We had asked for rates for a few levels of coverage. State Farm wanted to know "why" (insurers can be worried about insurance fraud at this level, etc.). When we explained, they issued the policy. A few years later, they inquired again. Our answer was the same. (Duh!). And again, the policy was promptly renewed with no lapse.

RM
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by neurosphere »

IowaFarmBoy wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:01 pm Do you every rent cars or drive someone else's? If so, you may want the umbrella policy to cover you against those risks, too. You may need to get a "use of non-owned car" policy to cover the first level of liability risk that is normally covered by the policy on a car you own.
I have a Geico non-owners policy. I don't have a car but occasionally rent and can decline their liability insurance. Then I have Geico umbrella which covers auto liability but also everything else.
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Kinkajou82 »

Lee_WSP wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:21 am
Kinkajou82 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:02 am Thanks for asking this question. When I inquited with my home insurance provider they told me I couldn't get Umbrella Insurance from them because I didn't have auto insurance. (I don't drive.)

They suggested I just increase the liability limit on my home policy to 1 million. Would that be almost as good as an actual umbrella policy?
If all you want is 1 million in coverage, yes. Otherwise, find a different issuer or see if they'll underwrite a special policy for you.
Okay, so newbie question but... What else is there aside?

If all Umbrella Insurance is is extra liability space shared between auto and house policies... And I DON'T own or drive a car, but DO own a home... Is just increasing my homeowner policy achieving the same thing? Or are there other non-obvious benefits to an actual Umbrella Policy?
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Kinkajou82 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:15 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:21 am
Kinkajou82 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:02 am Thanks for asking this question. When I inquited with my home insurance provider they told me I couldn't get Umbrella Insurance from them because I didn't have auto insurance. (I don't drive.)

They suggested I just increase the liability limit on my home policy to 1 million. Would that be almost as good as an actual umbrella policy?
If all you want is 1 million in coverage, yes. Otherwise, find a different issuer or see if they'll underwrite a special policy for you.
Okay, so newbie question but... What else is there aside?

If all Umbrella Insurance is is extra liability space shared between auto and house policies... And I DON'T own or drive a car, but DO own a home... Is just increasing my homeowner policy achieving the same thing? Or are there other non-obvious benefits to an actual Umbrella Policy?
One Example: Most homeowner policies wont cover libel/slander without an endorsement. (and potentially you might have to add an endorsement to be able to buy the umbrella). Or some homeowners policies might not even offer it... but an umbrella typically does.
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by Lee_WSP »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:46 pm
Kinkajou82 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:15 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:21 am
Kinkajou82 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:02 am Thanks for asking this question. When I inquited with my home insurance provider they told me I couldn't get Umbrella Insurance from them because I didn't have auto insurance. (I don't drive.)

They suggested I just increase the liability limit on my home policy to 1 million. Would that be almost as good as an actual umbrella policy?
If all you want is 1 million in coverage, yes. Otherwise, find a different issuer or see if they'll underwrite a special policy for you.
Okay, so newbie question but... What else is there aside?

If all Umbrella Insurance is is extra liability space shared between auto and house policies... And I DON'T own or drive a car, but DO own a home... Is just increasing my homeowner policy achieving the same thing? Or are there other non-obvious benefits to an actual Umbrella Policy?
One Example: Most homeowner policies wont cover libel/slander without an endorsement. (and potentially you might have to add an endorsement to be able to buy the umbrella). Or some homeowners policies might not even offer it... but an umbrella typically does.
Yes, but there's a very good chance the umbrella from the same company also excludes it.

I haven't read enough policies to know how common or uncommon it is.

All I can say is that raising your liability limits either way raises your liability limits.
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Re: Umbrella insurance for renter/non-car owner?

Post by zie »

tomsense76 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 pm
Snowbird501 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:45 pm RLI.
https://www.rlicorp.com/pup-apps-rates
This seems to be targeted towards property owners/drivers. Am I missing something here?

https://www.rlicorp.com/pup-qualify
I don't own a house or rent and RLI happily insured me. Check with your insurance agent. They were the only ones that would give me an umbrella policy, after trying through 5 diff. insurance agents.
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