Title company requesting more money after closing?

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scophreak
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by scophreak »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 pm
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm It's around $70, so this is more a fight based on principle and exasperation that there are still issues arising from this company.
Pay it. Fights based on principle are usually not worth having.
IMO, fights based on principle are the ones MOST worth having. Money is fleeting...principles (or lack thereof) are with you forever.
J295
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by J295 »

scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:23 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 pm
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm It's around $70, so this is more a fight based on principle and exasperation that there are still issues arising from this company.
Pay it. Fights based on principle are usually not worth having.
IMO, fights based on principle are the ones MOST worth having. Money is fleeting...principles (or lack thereof) are with you forever.
Big difference between acting on principle (and doing so in a principled manner) vs acting on frustration/exasperation/bruised ego. Hanlon’s Razor seem applicable to the OP situation.
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8foot7
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by 8foot7 »

Principles are just decisions made in advance. I made a decision a long time ago to generally not pay for other peoples' mistakes. If that makes me a keyboard warrior, well, strike first strike hard.

(Title company has literally completely failed here: they needed to (1) account for the parties owed money in a sale, (2) assure sufficient funds are collected to satisfy those accounts, and (3) disburse accordingly. Title company has failed on all three responsibilities, by (1) not accounting for the tax payment being due during one-half of the settlement transaction period, (2) not collecting enough money in reserve to pay any penalty or interest that might be due because of the conflicting date, and (3) not paying the tax bills a dozen days later even though they have the money on deposit. For failing on all fronts I am sure they collected a hefty fee. When scenarios like this transpire, I choose not to be the path of least resistance. Title company can eat it.)
criticalmass
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by criticalmass »

Dagwood wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:12 am
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:57 pm We sold our home and signed settlement paperwork on September 30. The buyer signed on October 1.

Property taxes were part of the settlement, to be paid at closing. However, the property tax payment was due on September 30.

The title company just came back to us (12 days after signing, and after funds were wired to us) saying that there was an interest charge for the property tax (since they're paying in October, after the due date) and that we need to write them a check to cover it. It does not appear that they have paid the property tax bill.

Our view is that the amounts we agreed to are contained in the settlement paperwork. If there was an additional interest fee for late payment of the property tax, that should have been part of the paperwork (which would have caused us to deal with it before closing). Additionally, the title company charged the buyer a "Tax Verification Fee" (an amount larger than the interest payment).

What should we do? Pay it? Push back on title company? Ignore them?

Tangentially related: this title company has been a pain to deal with (mistakes over multiple drafts of paperwork, finalizing paperwork less than 24 hours out with new fees for things like remote signing, etc), so I'm somewhat biased towards making this hard for them, if only by waiting weeks before responding (next interest charge would apply on November 1).
The house was yours on the date of the property tax due payment ("However, the property tax was payment was due on September 30"). You should have paid it then or dealt with the non-payment and the associated charge at the closing. Had it been paid, most municipalities would readily issue a receipt to show the title company so the correct closing entries could be made and you wouldn't have to be out both the payment and the closing charge. Pay the interest and the fees owed as your are liable for them or they may come after you, or may not.
The strange thing is that for every purchase I've been involved with, the title company wanted money well in advance for any taxes due within 60 or 90 days of settlement day, which means they are responsible for timely payment. Even refinances want the same. I would be extra vigilant to ensure you are not paying twice. If title or escrow companies are used, any late fees for charges on the disclosure statements that they are responsible for are generally their responsibility.
A reputable title company would pay the $70 charge that appears after the fact even if not their technical responsibility, as they should have informed you upfront. At a minimum, I would let them chew on it for a long while. If they don't pay the property taxes, the lender is going to get cranky with them (not the OP) in the near future.....
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:23 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 pm
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm It's around $70, so this is more a fight based on principle and exasperation that there are still issues arising from this company.
Pay it. Fights based on principle are usually not worth having.
IMO, fights based on principle are the ones MOST worth having. Money is fleeting...principles (or lack thereof) are with you forever.
How does one actually win a fight based on principle? Does one's own sense of self-satisfaction at starting a fight constitute victory, even if nothing changes? Or does the other party have to publicly admit they were wrong?
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cowdogman
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by cowdogman »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am
scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:23 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 pm
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm It's around $70, so this is more a fight based on principle and exasperation that there are still issues arising from this company.
Pay it. Fights based on principle are usually not worth having.
IMO, fights based on principle are the ones MOST worth having. Money is fleeting...principles (or lack thereof) are with you forever.
How does one actually win a fight based on principle? Does one's own sense of self-satisfaction at starting a fight constitute victory, even if nothing changes? Or does the other party have to publicly admit they were wrong?
I'm sorry, what is the principle here? That the OP can fail to pay his taxes when due and incur a penalty but shouldn't have to pay the penalty because the escrow company failed to notice? What kind of principle is that?
scophreak
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by scophreak »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am
scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:23 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 pm
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm It's around $70, so this is more a fight based on principle and exasperation that there are still issues arising from this company.
Pay it. Fights based on principle are usually not worth having.
IMO, fights based on principle are the ones MOST worth having. Money is fleeting...principles (or lack thereof) are with you forever.
How does one actually win a fight based on principle? Does one's own sense of self-satisfaction at starting a fight constitute victory, even if nothing changes? Or does the other party have to publicly admit they were wrong?
I don't want to take this discussion on a tangent, but since you asked I would answer in this way: one "wins" a fight based on principle by actually standing up for the principle (rather than any associated gain/loss). The victory can be wholly within oneself rather than external. On the other hand, one loses if they simply roll over and don't put up a fight or argument. Often, people simply choose to abandon their principle because it's "easier" to simply pay off the other party and move on. No judgement either way, but it's up to each of us to determine where our priorities lie.
pizzy
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by pizzy »

scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:13 pm one loses if they simply roll over and don't put up a fight or argument
scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:13 pm No judgement either way
Which is it?
simas
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by simas »

J295 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:32 am
scophreak wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:23 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:37 pm
fujiters wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:07 pm It's around $70, so this is more a fight based on principle and exasperation that there are still issues arising from this company.
Pay it. Fights based on principle are usually not worth having.
IMO, fights based on principle are the ones MOST worth having. Money is fleeting...principles (or lack thereof) are with you forever.
Big difference between acting on principle (and doing so in a principled manner) vs acting on frustration/exasperation/bruised ego. Hanlon’s Razor seem applicable to the OP situation.
yes, more of the second - tax was due from the owner , it was not paid (and could not have paid by third party as closing have not happened yet on 9/30).

one of my self guidelines (aka 'principles') is not to let small issues turn into major problems (fix the roof leak , fix the non working backup sump pump , fix the car , anything health related, etc.) - why turn this non-issue $70 into something of a real problem?

the local taxing body may happily accrue the taxes and penalties and eventually will come for you - you were the tax payer on record at that time. what happened next day/week/month/dog ate my homework/etc is hardly relevant to you being the responsible party that failed to make the payment. again, pay and move on would be my advice and forget keyboard warriors. hopefully you got what you want for the house.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by Sandtrap »

(in jest, humor)
What is the price of stress?
Sleepless nights?
Holding a grudge forever?
Having a topic for interesting conversation about getting cheated per se, forever?
Having the excitement, thrill, brief center of attention in an issue, in one's life? (perhaps)
Additional adrenalin rush to the chaos that swirls in the public today?
Having something conflicting to define the day?

$70
??????

Pay and move on. . .or. . don't pay and let it sustain. .and sustain. . .

There will be another day and time to champion the cause of right and wrong and justice.

(seriously)
Actionably: Title/Escrow companies are not all the same. I have dealt with many that are just okay marginally, some that are terrible and irresponsible, and a few that were outstanding. Depending on the deal, the buyer or seller has the right to choose the title/escrow company they want to deal with.
j :D
Last edited by Sandtrap on Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave55
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

Post by Dave55 »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:37 pm What is the price of stress?
Sleepless nights?
Holding a grudge forever?
Having a topic for interesting conversation about getting cheated per se, forever?
Having the excitement, thrill, brief center of attention in an issue, in one's life? (perhaps)
Additional adrenalin rush to the chaos that swirls in the public today?
Having something conflicting to define the day?

$70
??????

Pay and move on. . .or. . don't pay and let it sustain. .and sustain. . .

There will be another day and time to champion the cause of right and wrong and justice.

Actionably: Title/Escrow companies are not all the same. I have dealt with many that are just okay marginally, some that are terrible and irresponsible, and a few that were outstanding. Depending on the deal, the buyer or seller has the right to choose the title/escrow company they want to deal with.
j :D
+1

Dave
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Re: Title company requesting more money after closing?

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