You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

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KlangFool
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by KlangFool »

ncbill wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:21 am Well, here's what happened to a relative of mine whom I buried just a couple of years ago.

Once the kids were out of the home they did the right things like refinance to a 15-year mortgage when in their 50s so they could have the house paid off once they retired...shooting for around age 70.

Of course, what happened instead is that their entire department was outsourced about 5 years into that 15 year mortgage, so they refinanced to a 30 year mortgage then cashed in their pension to make it to SS at age 62.
ncbill,

I had told folks not to pay down or pay off their low interest mortgage until they are financially independent. In this case, they were lucky enough that they still could refinance to a 30 years mortgage. If not, it could be disastrous.

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Spinola
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by Spinola »

etfan wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:21 pm Curious about the posts that recommended moving to Europe. Are there no barriers to an American just becoming a permanent resident in Europe? Do SS benefits follow you to Europe? Don't you get double-taxed on SS benefits and capital gain from investments the same way working professionals get taxed both by their European host country and the IRS?
U.S. International Social Security Agreements

U.S. tax rules for U.S. citizens living abroad

Nothing is ever simple, and some countries are easier than others to become residents, but the options are well worth exploring. A tax advisor familiar with expat living can advise you. In general, if moving to country that has a tax treaty with the US, you will not be double-taxed on social security benefits.
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willthrill81
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by willthrill81 »

Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:39 am
etfan wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:21 pm Curious about the posts that recommended moving to Europe. Are there no barriers to an American just becoming a permanent resident in Europe? Do SS benefits follow you to Europe? Don't you get double-taxed on SS benefits and capital gain from investments the same way working professionals get taxed both by their European host country and the IRS?
U.S. International Social Security Agreements

U.S. tax rules for U.S. citizens living abroad

Nothing is ever simple, and some countries are easier than others to become residents, but the options are well worth exploring. A tax advisor familiar with expat living can advise you. In general, if moving to country that has a tax treaty with the US, you will not be double-taxed on social security benefits.
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Spinola
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by Spinola »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
rockstar
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by rockstar »

Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
And you leave all of your friends and family behind. That's a tough move and probably one that you would want to do before you retire, so that you can establish yourself.
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willthrill81
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by willthrill81 »

rockstar wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:28 am
Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
And you leave all of your friends and family behind. That's a tough move and probably one that you would want to do before you retire, so that you can establish yourself.
That's especially true if there are grandchildren in the picture. From what I've seen, the gravitational pull of grandchildren on grandparents is often stronger than that of a black hole.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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kevinf
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by kevinf »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:50 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:45 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:37 pmBut overall, I think that the increase in entry-level wages is good news for early retirees who don't have high spending needs.
It's also good news for 15-16yr olds, which I have heard from several business owners recently that they now prefer over legal adults because they are actually showing up to interviews. The Little Caesar's around the corner from my home is starting at $16/hr and has a sign on the window offering a cash bonuses for showing up to an interview.
We've heard the same from local businesses. Our nearby Best Buy had scheduled interviews with 18 applicants one day this summer, and zero showed up for the interview.
Forcing in-person interviews probably doesn't help. Every business should have figured out remote interviews by now.
nigel_ht
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by nigel_ht »

Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
I guess. But looking at the numbers for Long Beach, MS the rent is $900 for 2 bedrooms leaving $1200-$1600 for the rest of expenses.

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_livi ... long_beach

Kind of a Hurricane magnet though.

When the time comes I think we’ll try to rent a room from one of the kids to hold our stuff and be our “permanent” address while we live overseas and do occasional visa runs.

What 2020 showed us is many countries treat citizens only so-so during pandemics and inclined to strand permanent resident holders or retirement visa holders overseas or in the case of Malaysia kick their MM2H visa holders out by changing the requirements. Having flexibility as expats seems like the way to go and plan on not being able to stay when bad things happen to be the norm.
namajones
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by namajones »

Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
As someone who has lived and worked for a decade in Europe (Germany), I warn you that moving abroad to live is not as easy as just buying a ticket. You need visas, residence permit; like the U.S., other countries don't just welcome you when you show up.

Beyond that, there are many, many (MANY) obstacles that most people simply are aren't prepared or willing to overcome. And I've said nothing yet about culture shock, which is HUGE. If you're not the kind of person who sees differences as learning opportunities instead of inconveniences or annoyances, FORGET IT. Stay where you are.

Also forget all of the "best places to live or retire" articles and videos you see. You gotta go there and see for yourself. It ain't easy. Most people will come running back with their tails between their legs or their noses arrogantly and stupidly up in the air.

For Portugal in particular, seek out information like this more than the "it's so great" articles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EUiKnAbq9s
stoptothink
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by stoptothink »

kevinf wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:48 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:50 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:45 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:37 pmBut overall, I think that the increase in entry-level wages is good news for early retirees who don't have high spending needs.
It's also good news for 15-16yr olds, which I have heard from several business owners recently that they now prefer over legal adults because they are actually showing up to interviews. The Little Caesar's around the corner from my home is starting at $16/hr and has a sign on the window offering a cash bonuses for showing up to an interview.
We've heard the same from local businesses. Our nearby Best Buy had scheduled interviews with 18 applicants one day this summer, and zero showed up for the interview.
Forcing in-person interviews probably doesn't help. Every business should have figured out remote interviews by now.
If you are hiring for a job that requires someone to physically show up, I don't think asking the person to physically show up for an interview is asking too much.
wineandplaya
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by wineandplaya »

Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
For Spain, it doesn't need to be a very rural place. I'm not familiar with all Spanish metros, but for Barcelona, you could easily live very affordably if you don't insist on living in the most expensive downtown districts. And you could certainly live in the locations that are popular with Northern European expat retirees, like the Costa del Sol, Balearic Islands and the Canary Islands. Portugal is probably a bit cheaper still, and it's further west to slightly shorter travel times to the US and one 1h less time difference. And the barrier is lower to get residency via a "golden visa".

Anyway, the best location will surely depend on your personal preferences and as said, it's certainly not for everybody. If you just do it for the money, you'll be disappointed. You should also take into account actual travel time to where you have family members. For example, from Chicago, flying time to Hawaii (about 9h) is longer than the 8h it takes to get to Madrid or Lisbon (assuming you take the nonstop flights). Living a 8h flight away from family is a lot different than 24h away in say Thailand. And it matters both for how easily you can visit family and how often they will want to visit you.
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kevinf
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by kevinf »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:53 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:48 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:50 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:45 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:37 pmBut overall, I think that the increase in entry-level wages is good news for early retirees who don't have high spending needs.
It's also good news for 15-16yr olds, which I have heard from several business owners recently that they now prefer over legal adults because they are actually showing up to interviews. The Little Caesar's around the corner from my home is starting at $16/hr and has a sign on the window offering a cash bonuses for showing up to an interview.
We've heard the same from local businesses. Our nearby Best Buy had scheduled interviews with 18 applicants one day this summer, and zero showed up for the interview.
Forcing in-person interviews probably doesn't help. Every business should have figured out remote interviews by now.
If you are hiring for a job that requires someone to physically show up, I don't think asking the person to physically show up for an interview is asking too much.
If the employer doesn't value your time before they hire you, they surely won't after they do. But hey, I'm not the one having trouble getting people into interviews, what do I know.
nigel_ht
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by nigel_ht »

Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:59 pm
Candor wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:48 pm [
Don't you think the percentage of death per population would be a more accurate gauge? You might be surprised how many hundreds of thousands would have died in many countries (eg. Portugal) if they had the same population of "some countries".
[url]https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... nts/[url]p
Meh. Portugal is somewhat better than the US. Neither looks very good in comparison to Singapore, South Korea, New Zealand or Australia with low reported rates I don’t believe are made up.

While the US averages 2162 and Portugal 1756 US states range from 590 in Hawaii to Portuguese like 1770 in California.
stoptothink
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by stoptothink »

kevinf wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:43 pm
stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:53 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:48 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:50 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:45 pm

It's also good news for 15-16yr olds, which I have heard from several business owners recently that they now prefer over legal adults because they are actually showing up to interviews. The Little Caesar's around the corner from my home is starting at $16/hr and has a sign on the window offering a cash bonuses for showing up to an interview.
We've heard the same from local businesses. Our nearby Best Buy had scheduled interviews with 18 applicants one day this summer, and zero showed up for the interview.
Forcing in-person interviews probably doesn't help. Every business should have figured out remote interviews by now.
If you are hiring for a job that requires someone to physically show up, I don't think asking the person to physically show up for an interview is asking too much.
If the employer doesn't value your time before they hire you, they surely won't after they do. But hey, I'm not the one having trouble getting people into interviews, what do I know.
"Valuing your time" means not having the expectation that you'll show up when you say you will :confused I'm not having any trouble getting people to come to interviews, then again I am hiring for professional positions, not no-skill entry level positions. Showing up is 90% of getting ahead in these type of jobs and IMO is the first thing that should be emphasized to those just getting into the workforce, but the world is a different place right now. We clearly aren't going to agree on this, so :sharebeer
Last edited by stoptothink on Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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kelway
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by kelway »

CurlyDave wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:50 am
kelway wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:42 am
CurlyDave wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:36 am
The situation is worse than you think. Most people plan for a 30 year retirement, not just 10. This is long enough that, if you are lucky enough to stay in your own home, you are virtually guaranteed to need a new roof, new furnace, etc. Plus, I know that as I age I really appreciate a car with all the driver assist features I can get. This implies new vehicles every few years.
New vehicle every few years? In what way would this be normal for someone who is asking how to get by with 5-10x?
My crystal ball may be hazy, but it shows self-driving cars during the lifetime of many who retire today. I do not have to have to be particularly clever to predict that many retirees will be faced with the stark choice of giving up driving or buying a self-driving car.

Now maybe there will be an Uber-like choice but I have difficulty envisioning this in more rural environments.
Perhaps yes, but I sure do hope they don't need to buy a new one every 3 years.
KlangFool
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by KlangFool »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:52 pm
"Valuing your time" means not having the expectation that you'll show up when you say you will :confused I'm not having any trouble getting people to come to interviews, then again I am hiring for professional positions, not no-skill entry level positions. Showing up is 90% of getting ahead in these type of jobs and IMO is the first thing that should be emphasized to those just getting into the workforce, but the world is a different place right now. We clearly aren't going to agree on this, so :sharebeer
stoptothink,

Please correct me if I am wrong, aren't you the same person that claim you are not working in a professional place? Aka, folks don't show up in meeting. They do not do their work and you cannot fire them. That was your main reason of changing your position to not managing anyone.

If your work place is not professional, how could you be hiring for a professional position?

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stoptothink
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by stoptothink »

KlangFool wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:25 pm
stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:52 pm
"Valuing your time" means not having the expectation that you'll show up when you say you will :confused I'm not having any trouble getting people to come to interviews, then again I am hiring for professional positions, not no-skill entry level positions. Showing up is 90% of getting ahead in these type of jobs and IMO is the first thing that should be emphasized to those just getting into the workforce, but the world is a different place right now. We clearly aren't going to agree on this, so :sharebeer
stoptothink,

Please correct me if I am wrong, aren't you the same person that claim you are not working in a professional place? Aka, folks don't show up in meeting. They do not do their work and you cannot fire them. That was your main reason of changing your position to not managing anyone.

If your work place is not professional, how could you be hiring for a professional position?

KlangFool
I previously oversaw a large team, composed of a variety of employees from PhD scientists to recent grads with their first corporate job. I easily did 150+ interviews in 5yrs and don't recall ever being no-showed for a physical interview. Yes, a handful (out of 30) people stopped showing up to (virtual) team meetings and dropped productivity when everybody went WFH early in the pandemic (no employees had previously worked from home). I had no recourse to get rid of unproductive WFH employees who were clearly taking advantage of the pandemic situation, which was a big factor in deciding that I would not oversee WFH employees again. FWIW, none of those employees are still with the company. I made an internal transfer in November of last year and now am involved in hiring medical professionals, none of whom are WFH. I've done virtual interviews, for candidates who were living far away at the time, but I'm still yet to have a single person no-show a scheduled in-person interview.

If it's a WFH job, I see no issue with a virtual interview; in fact, I assume that would be the norm. But, I don't think it is too much to ask that someone who is expected to physically show up to work, who has agreed to physically show up to an interview, to actually stick to their word and show up. If you don't intend to show up to a physical interview, I would hope that would be communicated to the interviewers ahead of time. If you don't agree with that, cool.
Escapevelocity
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by Escapevelocity »

nigel_ht wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:56 pm
Bungo wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:53 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:20 am An extreme instance of this was Sam Dogen's claim that a $350k income was needed to live a 'middle class' lifestyle in the Bay Area along with his claim that the safe withdrawal rate for early retirees is 0.5%, meaning that early retirees desiring a 'middle class' lifestyle in the Bay Area can't retire with under $70 million. That's where tunnel vision can lead you.
I'd love to hear his argument. Do you happen to have a link?
It's financial samurai. Sam does a lot of clickbait posts...they are either amusing or infuriating depending on your mood/temperament.

I mostly find him funny while mostly the MMM stuff, which IMHO is also clickbaity, annoying. At least if you follow Sam's advice you'll end up either really rich before you FIRE or never FIRE (and maybe only moderately wealthy). Follow MMM and leanFIRE and you may end up in bad shape in your 60s without the means to recover.

I sometimes wonder if he's soooo overboard on FatFIRE just to annoy parts of the MMM crowd.
Yeah the Financial Samurai dude is certainly a clickbait troll.
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willthrill81
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by willthrill81 »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:38 pmI've done virtual interviews, for candidates who were living far away at the time, but I'm still yet to have a single person no-show a scheduled in-person interview.
I organized a number of virtual interviews this spring (for a WFH professional job), and everyone showed up exactly at their scheduled time.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
chipperd
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by chipperd »

namajones wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:16 pm
Spinola wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:17 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:44 am
Given the context of the thread (e.g., someone who may not have saved enough), it seems doubtful that most of Western Europe at least would have a cost of living meaningfully lower than most of America, with the possible exceptions of Portugal and rural Spain. Eastern Europe can be significantly less costly though.
Portugal, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic, Poland, and rural Spain,France and Italy all come to mind.

Cost of living by country

Portugal is probably the best destination, for a variety of reasons. So the answer is: yes, a couple living on $2000-2400 of social security a month can live very well in Western Europe, enjoying a quality of life far superior than they would in the US for that same amount. Of course it's not for everyone.
As someone who has lived and worked for a decade in Europe (Germany), I warn you that moving abroad to live is not as easy as just buying a ticket. You need visas, residence permit; like the U.S., other countries don't just welcome you when you show up.

Beyond that, there are many, many (MANY) obstacles that most people simply are aren't prepared or willing to overcome. And I've said nothing yet about culture shock, which is HUGE. If you're not the kind of person who sees differences as learning opportunities instead of inconveniences or annoyances, FORGET IT. Stay where you are.

Also forget all of the "best places to live or retire" articles and videos you see. You gotta go there and see for yourself. It ain't easy. Most people will come running back with their tails between their legs or their noses arrogantly and stupidly up in the air.

For Portugal in particular, seek out information like this more than the "it's so great" articles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EUiKnAbq9s
I just watched the video and nothing in it is different from many other ex-pat retirement spots. In fact the narrator contradicts himself several times "It's cloudy although there are over 300 days of sun"
As one commenter wrote "I just wasted 15 minutes watching a stupid video from a guy that claims to be an expert on retirement in a country he never lived in and it seems that he also is an expert on many other countries as well, the ocean in winter is cold, but beautiful in the summer, the sun rises every day, the food is cheap and good, people are friendly, retired but looking for work...wait i am retired i shouldn't work, grey skies in the winter for few months... clouds are grey and it rains sometimes."
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
secondopinion
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by secondopinion »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:52 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:43 pm
stoptothink wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:53 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:48 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:50 pm

We've heard the same from local businesses. Our nearby Best Buy had scheduled interviews with 18 applicants one day this summer, and zero showed up for the interview.
Forcing in-person interviews probably doesn't help. Every business should have figured out remote interviews by now.
If you are hiring for a job that requires someone to physically show up, I don't think asking the person to physically show up for an interview is asking too much.
If the employer doesn't value your time before they hire you, they surely won't after they do. But hey, I'm not the one having trouble getting people into interviews, what do I know.
"Valuing your time" means not having the expectation that you'll show up when you say you will :confused I'm not having any trouble getting people to come to interviews, then again I am hiring for professional positions, not no-skill entry level positions. Showing up is 90% of getting ahead in these type of jobs and IMO is the first thing that should be emphasized to those just getting into the workforce, but the world is a different place right now. We clearly aren't going to agree on this, so :sharebeer
An item to the "keys of success": "Showing up to commitments that one promises."
secondopinion
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Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by secondopinion »

KlangFool wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:37 am
ncbill wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:21 am Well, here's what happened to a relative of mine whom I buried just a couple of years ago.

Once the kids were out of the home they did the right things like refinance to a 15-year mortgage when in their 50s so they could have the house paid off once they retired...shooting for around age 70.

Of course, what happened instead is that their entire department was outsourced about 5 years into that 15 year mortgage, so they refinanced to a 30 year mortgage then cashed in their pension to make it to SS at age 62.
ncbill,

I had told folks not to pay down or pay off their low interest mortgage until they are financially independent. In this case, they were lucky enough that they still could refinance to a 30 years mortgage. If not, it could be disastrous.

KlangFool
Liquidity: a golden word with a premium; and some here say that "cash [or even bonds] is trash". Liquidity would not be a premium if it was not helpful for risk management.

You are right on the money that one should not be in a rush to pay off a mortgage until they can do so very soundly. I would probably go as far as saying not to pay it off early ever. It is too good of a loan; you can refinance it down and you can refinance it out. What other loan has better terms than this? Paying it off is akin to investing in the loan, which I would never do.
ncbill
Posts: 1176
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by ncbill »

calmaniac wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:35 am
ncbill wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:21 am ----SNIP-----
Back pain a few years ago led to an eventual diagnosis of terminal cancer...lived only a few months (thank G_d for Hospice!) until dying in their early 70s.
----SNIP-----
I don't see how the above post as well as many of the off-topic posts getting into the economics of low wage jobs are providing the OP actionable advice on his/her situation. Not meaning to be a killjoy, but it concerns me that instead of offering useful advice, people are taking the conversation in all kinds of unhelpful directions.
Well, the original post is pretty general in nature.

But IMHO low-wage earners are those most likely to be retiring with 5-10x expenses saved.

And as in my example, are more likely to enter retirement involuntarily.

As I related, if you have a house, even with an existing mortgage, it can be an important source of funds for your retirement.

E.g. refi mortgage, add a HELOC, or take out a reverse mortgage.

Far more would choose the above than abandon friends/family to relocate to a cheaper foreign country, per some other posts.
dbr
Posts: 37299
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: You retired with only 5x - 10x. Now what?

Post by dbr »

Wasn't all of this resolved by pointing out to the OP that 25x applies to the fraction of one's income that is not supplied by SS, pensions, annuities or whatever else. The fifth response corrected that misunderstand but the OP never acknowledged that he has misunderstood the 25x figure for portfolio savings.

So, more than half my spending comes from SS and pensions. Does that mean I have to eat cat food or work longer because I only saved 14 times my expected total expenses? But it is more like 30 times my wanted withdrawals or maybe more than that.
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