80-100k boat purchase??

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TarHeel2002
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by TarHeel2002 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:33 pm If you're going to buy a towsports boat that is anything but a dedicated ski boat, make sure it surfs well. That's a major factor in resale value.
Considering a
Mastercraft XT20 or equivalent

https://www.mastercraft.com/boats/xt20? ... gJufvD_BwE
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White Coat Investor
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by White Coat Investor »

TarHeel2002 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:37 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:33 pm If you're going to buy a towsports boat that is anything but a dedicated ski boat, make sure it surfs well. That's a major factor in resale value.
Considering a
Mastercraft XT20 or equivalent

https://www.mastercraft.com/boats/xt20? ... gJufvD_BwE
Does your lake only allow 20 foot boats? If it doesn't have that limitation, I'd encourage you to look at a 22-24 footer instead. The price isn't that much higher but the surfing is dramatically better (and the skiing correspondingly worse). 1700 lbs of ballast is nothing for surfing. Twice that is typical and some people "slam" their surfboats with 3 times that. You need to realize there is no good 20 foot surf boat out there. Can you surf a 20 footer? Sure. But it is a very different experience than surfing my 23.5 footer. If I were going to drop $70K+ on a boat (and you'll be getting a used one for that price) I'd want the right one. Most people who buy a wakeboat these days are spending 90% of their time surfing.
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HomerJ
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

ElBarto wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:24 pm
HomerJ wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:20 pm
ElBarto wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:08 pm Looks to me like this is something you will love and use a lot. You have sat on this decision for a long long time and still want the expensive boat. I think you should go for it. Hobbies are very important to enjoying life and this is clearly a huge hobby for you. I only have one criteria when you are paying for luxury or hobbies. You don't take out debt for it. Save up, and pay cash. If you think you can save up enough by next summer, then get it next summer. Pull from your cash reserves and then build it back up shortly after.
I agree with all this.

Excellent that you sat on the decision for a couple of years and still want it.

You have the resources, I say buy it... But I also say save up the cash for it. Luxuries like this should be paid for with cash.

And you shouldn't buy this year (prices are crazy), so you'll have to time to save the money.
Did Homer just agree with Bart?
Why, you little...
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White Coat Investor
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by White Coat Investor »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:41 pm
bloom2708 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 pm I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.

Doesn't seem like that is an option. Suze Orman...denied.... :wink:
This.

If you still have a mortgage... you don't get a $60k boat.
JBTX wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:41 pm [Are there reasonable options between a 20 year old beater and a $60k boat?
Yes... yes there is.
Depends on what you want the boat to do. I'd argue you can't get a decent surfboat for less than $60K. Even used. My 6+ year old boat that cost $80K all in is still apparently worth $70K. And if you try to buy one that is even a few years older you'll find out they didn't exist. Malibu didn't make real surfboats before 2013 and the Axis line didn't start putting surfgates on until 2014. Other brands were even later to the surf game.

A nice, well-cared for 20 year old boat might still be worth $10-20K right now.

So if you just want some old inboard/outboard that'll run around the lake and pull a tube and get a skier up, sure, you can get that for less than $10K. But the OP is talking about buying a Mastercraft surf boat. As near as I can tell, they didn't even make that boat before 2017 and the 2017s are going for $89-95K on boattrader or onlyinboards.
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by White Coat Investor »

HomerJ wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:16 am Tubing and skiing doesn't require a $60k used boat. What "creature comforts" are you talking about?
It's about surfing. You either buy a $20K boat that doesn't surf or you buy a $100K boat that does. That's really the big differentiator in the watersports boats. That's the first decision that has to be made. There's really no good option that does it halfway.
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by sureshoe »

I feel like $50k-$60k is a very expensive purchase for someone who only has $260k of income. I'm assuming you have 1-2 cars and those will need replaced someday. How much car+truck will you buy? $30k-$40k? That's just a lot of money in depreciating assets compared to your income.

However, it does seem like you offset it with an inexpensive home and mortgage.

Also, do you vacation/etc? If not, and the lake "is your vacation", maybe that's an offset.

I think it comes down to how long you want to work. You can afford it - you're not going broke. But, does it make you work an extra 3-4 years, and do you mind?
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HomerJ
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:29 pm
HomerJ wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:16 am Tubing and skiing doesn't require a $60k used boat. What "creature comforts" are you talking about?
It's about surfing. You either buy a $20K boat that doesn't surf or you buy a $100K boat that does. That's really the big differentiator in the watersports boats. That's the first decision that has to be made. There's really no good option that does it halfway.
I believe when I wrote that response above, the OP hadn't mentioned surfing yet. He had talked about tubing (his kids were pretty young when this thread started - 8 and 6 and 0 I believe).

But anyway I agree with you... If it's all about wake-surfing, then you have to pay $60,000 more for that option. That's a lot of money just for that one extra fun activity. Certainly, it's worth it for some people.

But if you're just looking at tubing and skiing, there's a whole range of options.

Personally, I'd rather have two waverunners and a decent pontoon for half the cost of one wakeboat, but that's me.
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Andymoler58
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by Andymoler58 »

I bought a 65k boat last year and got a 20 yr loan at 4.5% from bank of the west.

I def don’t think you should pay cash if you can get those terms.

It only costs me $371/mo
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

Andymoler58 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:41 pm I bought a 65k boat last year and got a 20 yr loan at 4.5% from bank of the west.

I def don’t think you should pay cash if you can get those terms.

It only costs me $371/mo
Paying off that loan is a guaranteed 4.5% return. There are currently no guaranteed returns that high in CDs or bonds.

Stocks are likely to beat it, but there's no guarantee. Are you 100% stocks?

20-year loan? :shock:
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Andymoler58
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by Andymoler58 »

Yup, 100% stocks, I took the loan out during covid crisis so probably got a 50-60% head start on the opportunity cost.

$371/mo is fixed so inflation is going to water down the payment over 20 years
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by Boats day »

Approved

As you can see from m screen name I love boats.

Boataday
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HomerJ
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

Andymoler58 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:10 pm Yup, 100% stocks, I took the loan out during covid crisis so probably got a 50-60% head start on the opportunity cost.

$371/mo is fixed so inflation is going to water down the payment over 20 years
Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash.

But if you are indeed 100% stocks, at least you have a chance.

Good luck to you.
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ACA
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by ACA »

OP,

We’ve had Mastercraft boats for 18 years. Started with a Prostar, moved to an X2 and now a XT22. I’ve loved them all and enjoyed the time with family. I have never regretted the money or time spent on our boats. Everyone has been dependable and other than regular maintenance and gas, inexpensive to own. Many who discourage boat ownership either had poorly maintained boats that required expensive upkeep or never owned a boat at all. We are boaters!

The XT20 is a nice boat, similar in size to tour old X2. We found that boat too small for our family of 6.it surfed ok but was just too compact. Enter the XT22. Great boat that does it all! Surfs like a champ.

Our 2018 XT22 is for sale. Only to be replaced with a newer boat. If you’re interested, I can send you details. It’s loaded with everything- hydraulic steering, heat, BTS windshield, 5500 GDI engine, Dockstar, dual big screens, docking lights, full skirts on MC cover and much more. Has low hours and is in perfect condition.
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by smitcat »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 pm
Andymoler58 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:10 pm Yup, 100% stocks, I took the loan out during covid crisis so probably got a 50-60% head start on the opportunity cost.

$371/mo is fixed so inflation is going to water down the payment over 20 years
Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash.

But if you are indeed 100% stocks, at least you have a chance.

Good luck to you.
"Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash."
There are numerous times we did/do not pay cash - I do not consider us poor.
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vanbogle59
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by vanbogle59 »

smitcat wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:29 am
HomerJ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 pm
Andymoler58 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:10 pm Yup, 100% stocks, I took the loan out during covid crisis so probably got a 50-60% head start on the opportunity cost.

$371/mo is fixed so inflation is going to water down the payment over 20 years
Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash.

But if you are indeed 100% stocks, at least you have a chance.

Good luck to you.
"Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash."
There are numerous times we did/do not pay cash - I do not consider us poor.
Really rich people get Megacorp to borrow the money to pay for the boat while they get to play with it tax and risk free. :D
SQRT
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by SQRT »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 pm

Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash.

First time I’ve heard this. Tend to agree. Although maybe more true in its comparative form. Ie poorer people and richer people?

Monthly payments tend to pile up. I’ve always paid cash for toys and luxuries. Just can’t be bothered setting up monthly payments. I really don’t care what the interest rate is. It would have to be a very large loan for it to make any difference at all to our financial position.
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by EnjoyIt »

SQRT wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:39 am
HomerJ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 pm

Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash.

First time I’ve heard this. Tend to agree. Although maybe more true in its comparative form. Ie poorer people and richer people?

Monthly payments tend to pile up. I’ve always paid cash for toys and luxuries. Just can’t be bothered setting up monthly payments. I really don’t care what the interest rate is. It would have to be a very large loan for it to make any difference at all to our financial position.
I have heard this comment a little differently.

“Poor people pay interest. Rich people collect interest.”

The comment isn’t dogma as there are plenty of good reasons to pay interest. With that in mind, if this is a luxury item and one should be able to pay cash for it without going into debt. In our family we pay cash for our luxuries.
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HomerJ
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

smitcat wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:29 am
HomerJ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 pm
Andymoler58 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:10 pm Yup, 100% stocks, I took the loan out during covid crisis so probably got a 50-60% head start on the opportunity cost.

$371/mo is fixed so inflation is going to water down the payment over 20 years
Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash.

But if you are indeed 100% stocks, at least you have a chance.

Good luck to you.
"Poor people care about monthly payments. Rich people pay cash."
There are numerous times we did/do not pay cash - I do not consider us poor.
Let me rephrase... It's not the taking on of debt (although I frown at that)... It's the framing of how much something costs in monthly payments.

"This boat/car costs $60,000 - can I afford that" compared to "This boat/car costs $500 a month - can I afford that"
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by sailaway »

The poor man asks "Can I afford this payment?" The rich man asks "What is the best way to pay for this thing I have already decided that I can afford?"
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

sailaway wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:53 am The poor man asks "Can I afford this payment?" The rich man asks "What is the best way to pay for this thing I have already decided that I can afford?"
Yes.

And my apologies to Andymoler. My comment was condescending. He may indeed be able to afford an expensive boat, and decided to take a risk on paying a fairly high interest rate, hoping his stock gains will be even higher.

But I think he is indeed taking a large risk. 4.5% for 20 years is a fairly high interest rate for a very long time.

I think, in most cases, it's best to pay cash for toys. Because if you feel comfortable giving up the cash and the possible gains on that cash in order to enjoy the toy, that probably means it's a not a super large percentage of your portfolio.

But each person makes their own choice. We are just stating our own opinions here. I'm certainly not stating that what I feel is right for everyone.
Last edited by HomerJ on Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SQRT
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by SQRT »

HomerJ wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:14 pm

I think, in most cases, it's best to pay cash for toys. Because if you feel comfortable giving up the cash and the possible gains on that cash in order to enjoy the toy, that means it's a not a super large percentage of your portfolio.

But each person makes their own choice. We are just stating our own opinions here. I'm certainly not stating that I feel is right for everyone.
Agree. When you pay cash for a luxury it tends to support 2 propositions:

1) you can really afford it, and

2) You really want it enough to pay cash for it.
Last edited by SQRT on Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
averagelonghorn
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by averagelonghorn »

So just today, I got my boat back after it has been in the shop all summer waiting for a new engine. Its a 20 year old ski boat; I made a HUGE mistake and didn't winterize it this past winter, then Texas had it's coldest storm in a really long time; it got down to 2 degrees F at my lakehouse, and the makeshift heater that I had in the engine compartment (a 100 watt bulb) that usually does the trick for the typical less than 24 hours freeze we get here in Central Texas did NO good during rolling blackouts, of course.

So just saying, once I knew we had a cracked block, and needed a new engine, my options were:
1) Fix the boat with a new engine for about 11k
2) Buy a new/used boat and sell (or trade) the old one for whatever it would get, perhaps 1-2k if we were lucky
3) Just give up owning a boat all together whether for a while or forever.

I did some online shopping for boats that might meet our needs.... (Our old boat is a great v-drive ski boat Moomba brand, which were back then considered similar overall performance to a Mastercraft but a fair amount cheaper.) Now we're older, water skiing is less of a draw, and honestly if we had gone with option 2, we would be looking for a pontoon/tritoon most likely. But BOY OH BOY the sticker shock on what a new and even used boat cost today! So we went for Option # 1..... we had redone the vinyl a couple of years back, and now with a new engine, hopefully our mostly redone boat will last us many more years.... and if we did decide to sell tomorrow, (Or more like next spring) we'd likely recoup what we put into the engine.

Owning a vacation home on a lake (where we're actually spending a decent amount of time while this work at home thing lasts) we just weren't ready to take a break from boat ownership.

So enough about me, to OP: .... you've still got a boat that meets your needs. You aren't in a huge hurry.... keep saving for the boat, keep your eye out for a deal.... buy a boat when the right one comes up that you want, or when the desire for a new boat just gets too high. I think you can afford it, and I think you and your family will get plenty of use out of the old boat. I think as you pointed out that boats are having similar supply chain issues to cars, which is likely warping the market for both new and farily new uses boats, so just keep your eyes out and keep using your old boat until then.
Good luck!
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by brcarls »

Regattamom wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:56 pm
BruDude wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:28 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm
BruDude wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:10 pm Two best days in a man’s life are the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat...
Sorry you did not like boating - for us it is a great opportunity and pastime with irreplaceable memories.
I’ve never had a boat but I’ve heard it many times from people that have.
Maybe you should stop repeating it? At least until you've lived it?

Buy the boat, OP. You can afford it. Have fun!
That saying is more a comment on certain types of people than it is on boat ownership.

Some people are impulsive dreamers. They buy a boat knowing nothing about owning a boat and don't really have any need for a boat. They just want to be that person in the ad living their best life with the wind blowing through their hair.

When they actually own the boat, they discover that boat ownership can be a lot of hassle and work. The boat ends up rotting away on the trailer because their family quickly lost interest in the shiny new toy which requires a lot of planning and work (which is not ideal for impulsive people :) ).

But there are also people who actually use their boats. Being on the water is such a part of them that being without a boat is unimaginable.

For those impulsive, superficial, people who will make a big decision based on a daydream, the saying is absolutely true. The OP is obviously not in that category.
GP813
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by GP813 »

Boat stands for Bust Out Another Thousand as others have stated.

Also the old adage of the only thing better than owning a boat is having a friend who owns a boat applies.
teuton33
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by teuton33 »

I wouldn’t buy this boat. Your liquid assets are 1.2m but 1.1m is 401k and will be taxed in the future. So i would discount that money.

You only have 100k in taxable which is pretty low and you’ve be spending it all on the boat.
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by randomguy »

teuton33 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:34 pm I wouldn’t buy this boat. Your liquid assets are 1.2m but 1.1m is 401k and will be taxed in the future. So i would discount that money.

You only have 100k in taxable which is pretty low and you’ve be spending it all on the boat.
And in 50 years when he is on his death bed, do you think he is going to regret not having another million in his portfolio or missing out on those years on the water with his kids?

The guy can afford the boat. The only question is if that is where he wants to be spending his money or not. The person who spends 100/days year using that boat might say it is an easy yes. The person who goes out 2x/year should be a no (and no a new boat will not radically change how often you want to go out for more than a month or so).

Bogleheads tends to be a horrible place for advice on if you should buy something because the answer is always going to be no (except for first class tickets for some reason...). The safest course of action is always not to spend and odds are most people here don't share your passion and will not understand the joy a 10k home audio setup, 4k violin bow, 8k road bike, 60k boat, and so on will bring to you as they make your hobbies more enjoyable.
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HomerJ
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by HomerJ »

randomguy wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:40 am
teuton33 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:34 pm I wouldn’t buy this boat. Your liquid assets are 1.2m but 1.1m is 401k and will be taxed in the future. So i would discount that money.

You only have 100k in taxable which is pretty low and you’ve be spending it all on the boat.
And in 50 years when he is on his death bed, do you think he is going to regret not having another million in his portfolio or missing out on those years on the water with his kids?
Well, he's already spending time on the water with his kids. He already has a boat. Will the memories be that much better with a different boat?

That's always my question when looking to upgrade something. Always pay attention to diminishing returns.
The guy can afford the boat. The only question is if that is where he wants to be spending his money or not.
But this is true, and I agree that he should buy it, but he can afford to wait and keep looking for a good deal.
Bogleheads tends to be a horrible place for advice on if you should buy something because the answer is always going to be no (except for first class tickets for some reason...).
Heh, you got that right... :)
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by JackoC »

teuton33 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:34 pm 1. I wouldn’t buy this boat. Your liquid assets are 1.2m but 1.1m is 401k and will be taxed in the future. So i would discount that money.

2. You only have 100k in taxable which is pretty low and you’ve be spending it all on the boat.
1. I'd just note that two ways to correct for taxes have been mentioned, you have to do one or the other though not both.
a) earlier exchange derived an estimate of OP's actual spending (fairly close to reality OP later said) but noted that in retirement you've got to add back income taxes (on both RMD's, divs on taxable, and capital gains from liquidating taxable if/when needed) before you apply the equation, spending/gross portfolio=X% SWR. Your suggestion is the other way, which I personally favor: track your portfolio all along at its after tax value, 401k/IRA balances multiplied times (1-ordinary income tax rate), and include deferred capital gains taxes on taxable accounts. The arguments sometimes given against both include 'but you don't know future tax rates' which is bogus: you don't know future anything but still plan based on best estimate. The better argument for uncertainty is that people of fairly modest means may maneuver around taxes in retirement to a very significant degree, but if you're fortunate in your income and investing results you won't be able to do that.

2. I have as usual no strong opinion on the thing the person proposes to buy as long as they can afford it in the every day sense which most of the questioners can including this one. If insulating yourself absolutely against all unknowns you wouldn't buy any discretionary item, and likewise if you have a burning enough desire to retire very early you'd adopt a very low standard of living (Mr. Money Moustache style). IOW somebody with quite good but not extremely high income like OP who wants to retire absolutely ASAP should not buy an $80k boat I would agree. But if working to late middle age (not even 65 necessarily) is not an agonizing prospect, and you want to enjoy (and have your family enjoy, also important) material things more during that longer working life, this purchase is not out of line IMO.
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TarHeel2002
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by TarHeel2002 »

Breakdown of funds:

401(k) = 757k
Roth IRA = 267k
HSA = 53k
Cash = 90k
Taxable = 104k
TIPS = 20k
(Total 1291k)

529 = 151k
(Total 1442k)

I currently own a MasterCraft Prostar 190. I’ve surfed an X10 before so I assumed the XT20 would be a good one too. You’ve got me curious about the XT21/22s now.. how they surf. Problem is I still love skiing too!? :oops:

Plan is to keep saving and looking… thank you!! :sharebeer
ACA
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Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by ACA »

TarHeel2002 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:31 pm
I currently own a MasterCraft Prostar 190. I’ve surfed an X10 before so I assumed the XT20 would be a good one too. You’ve got me curious about the XT21/22s now.. how they surf. Problem is I still love skiing too!? :oops:

Plan is to keep saving and looking… thank you!! :sharebeer
We have several friends on our lake so have a ton of time behind X2, X10, X30, X23 and of course our XT22. The X20 is an improved specimen of the X2. Just not roomy enough for our family and didn’t like the attitude of bow while surfing. X10 and X30 surf very well, but again, X10 is snug. The XT21 is the X10 replacement. The XT23 is the X30 replacement. We prefer pickle fork bow and love the XT22. It’s a crossover and surfs extremely well. Better than an X20 or XT21. And has tons of room in a not much bigger package. It skis but NOTHING like a Prostar. In my opinion, you likely will not be pleased with any of the X or XT series for slalom if coming from a Prostar. The XT series do claim to ski well, and I guess they do for their size.

Our kids grew up in and behind the boat. If you don’t have a boat, you likely don’t understand and are incompetent to discourage a boating family from investing in an incredible lifestyle. Lastly, you are on track financially and buying a boat will provide tons of happy memories. Ignore the naysayers who just aren’t able to understand.
Boatguy
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:54 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by Boatguy »

averagelonghorn wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:54 pm So just today, I got my boat back after it has been in the shop all summer waiting for a new engine. Its a 20 year old ski boat; I made a HUGE mistake and didn't winterize it this past winter, then Texas had it's coldest storm in a really long time; it got down to 2 degrees F at my lakehouse, and the makeshift heater that I had in the engine compartment (a 100 watt bulb) that usually does the trick for the typical less than 24 hours freeze we get here in Central Texas did NO good during rolling blackouts, of course.

So just saying, once I knew we had a cracked block, and needed a new engine, my options were:
1) Fix the boat with a new engine for about 11k
2) Buy a new/used boat and sell (or trade) the old one for whatever it would get, perhaps 1-2k if we were lucky
3) Just give up owning a boat all together whether for a while or forever.

I did some online shopping for boats that might meet our needs.... (Our old boat is a great v-drive ski boat Moomba brand, which were back then considered similar overall performance to a Mastercraft but a fair amount cheaper.) Now we're older, water skiing is less of a draw, and honestly if we had gone with option 2, we would be looking for a pontoon/tritoon most likely. But BOY OH BOY the sticker shock on what a new and even used boat cost today! So we went for Option # 1..... we had redone the vinyl a couple of years back, and now with a new engine, hopefully our mostly redone boat will last us many more years.... and if we did decide to sell tomorrow, (Or more like next spring) we'd likely recoup what we put into the engine.

Owning a vacation home on a lake (where we're actually spending a decent amount of time while this work at home thing lasts) we just weren't ready to take a break from boat ownership.

So enough about me, to OP: .... you've still got a boat that meets your needs. You aren't in a huge hurry.... keep saving for the boat, keep your eye out for a deal.... buy a boat when the right one comes up that you want, or when the desire for a new boat just gets too high. I think you can afford it, and I think you and your family will get plenty of use out of the old boat. I think as you pointed out that boats are having similar supply chain issues to cars, which is likely warping the market for both new and farily new uses boats, so just keep your eyes out and keep using your old boat until then.
Good luck!
Is winterization customary in central Texas? Curious to know whether or not insurance covered your freeze damage….
DoubleComma
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by DoubleComma »

TarHeel2002 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:31 pm Breakdown of funds:

401(k) = 757k
Roth IRA = 267k
HSA = 53k
Cash = 90k
Taxable = 104k
TIPS = 20k
(Total 1291k)

529 = 151k
(Total 1442k)

I currently own a MasterCraft Prostar 190. I’ve surfed an X10 before so I assumed the XT20 would be a good one too. You’ve got me curious about the XT21/22s now.. how they surf. Problem is I still love skiing too!? :oops:

Plan is to keep saving and looking… thank you!! :sharebeer
OP if you are anywhere near the West Coast I seriously look at Sangers. Great boat, there V215SX and XTZ are very surf-able straight from the factory, but still offer outstanding skiing wake. One of the few boats I believe can do it all. The downside is the Freeboard is a bit low compared to dedicated surf boats, which is really an issue if your lake gets Tahoe rough. For a more traditional surfboard the V231 will throw all the wave you can handle.

Sanger delivers every bit the quality of Malibu, Master Craft, Nautique, etc. They having been building boats for 70+ years and still building one at a time by hand. Awesome boats.

I asked about location because as anyone with boats knows the dealer is far more critical than the manufacturer. The dealer can make or kill your experience; Sanger has a very limited dealer network outside of the West Coast.

It could still be worth looking at as the price/value equation is quite high. You can get a new 2022 V215SX or XTZ variant well optioned to surf out the door in $90-$100k range. The larger Surf focused models will eclipse $100k; but now where near the $200k+ boats you see coming off the Household names.

You probably already know if you want a “new” boat for next season get it ordered this fall…production capacity is being sold quickly still.
Last edited by DoubleComma on Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mrjohnanderson007
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:23 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by mrjohnanderson007 »

You said old boat does it's job, new boat does essentially same thing.
DoubleComma
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by DoubleComma »

mrjohnanderson007 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:33 pm You said old boat does it's job, new boat does essentially same thing.
Spoken like someone who has no knowledge of water sports these days.

A 20 year old 20’ boat won’t surf in most instances.

So many variables in a modern boat come into play. Talking about things like total water ballast, ballast location, GSA Surf Tabs, and unbelievable horse power that are required to create a surf-able wave.

A well maintained 20 year old 20’ ski boat can’t keep up. You can spend piles of money trying to make it surf, and someone will tell me about her the barefoot boat they converted to a surf boat…but it really takes a newer boat with newer hull designs and all the features to make a wave capable of riding without the rope.

Furthermore I’m in my mid-40s currently and wakeboard and skiing flats beats a guy up. I still wakeboard, but we are probably 90% surfing now as family. My kids exclusively surf. Wake surfing is very low impact and something I fully expect to be capable for for another 20+ years. These things also matter when spending on a hobby.
mrjohnanderson007
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:23 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by mrjohnanderson007 »

DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:47 pm
mrjohnanderson007 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:33 pm You said old boat does it's job, new boat does essentially same thing.
Spoken like someone who has no knowledge of water sports these days.

A 20 year old 20’ boat won’t surf in most instances.

So many variables in a modern boat come into play. Talking about things like total water ballast, ballast location, GSA Surf Tabs, and unbelievable horse power that are required to create a surf-able wave.

A well maintained 20 year old 20’ ski boat can’t keep up. You can spend piles of money trying to make it surf, and someone will tell me about her the barefoot boat they converted to a surf boat…but it really takes a newer boat with newer hull designs and all the features to make a wave capable of riding without the rope.

Furthermore I’m in my mid-40s currently and wakeboard and skiing flats beats a guy up. I still wakeboard, but we are probably 90% surfing now as family. My kids exclusively surf. Wake surfing is very low impact and something I fully expect to be capable for for another 20+ years. These things also matter when spending on a hobby.
20 years of skiing and wakeboarding here. 10 years of superjets and waveblasters. Went wakesurfing a few times but I had lost interest in water sports and the price tag it took to enjoy a hobby. If wakesurfing is worth 40k. Okay. Otherwise OP could spend 40k on other things with family to build memories.

Can't you buy a darn nice used SUPRA or MOOMBA for $30,000-$35,000 anymore? Mastercraft was always the Cadillac. Paying for the name.
skime
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by skime »

TarHeel2002 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 pm We live on the lake. We currently have a 20 year old ski boat that still gets the job done (tubing, skiing, etc)..

Thinking of upgrading to a newer (not brand new) boat with less hours, better interior, few more creature comforts...to do essentially the same thing as the 20 year old boat. Looking at 50-60k range...this boat would probably last us 10+ years and be a lot of fun for the family/memories on the water etc.

Married 39 yo with 3 kids (8,6,0)

Annual income 260k
Total retirement savings = 663k
Emergency fund = 35k
529 savings = 86k

Annual 529 savings = 18k
Annual retirement savings = 50k (I've been saving an additional 3k/month in taxable)

Home mortgage 149k @ 3.125% ($750 month payment)
Rental mortgage for business/building I own 180k @ 4.75% (1616/month payment)

I could probably get 8-10k for the 20 year old boat on trade in or trying to sell in myself. I'm thinking I could save another 40k by next summer without affecting retirement or 529 contributions. That would result in me being able to pay cash or close to it for next summer. We're fine with the old boat this summer. Certainly not a need and it would temporarily stop the 3k/month taxable contributions for about a year but definitely something I've been contemplating for awhile. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks. :beer
If you live on a lake, you need a boat you can enjoy. Save the money and buy the boat. Boating with your family is something that they'll never forget.
SQRT
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:44 am

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by SQRT »

skime wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:46 am
If you live on a lake, you need a boat you can enjoy. Save the money and buy the boat. Boating with your family is something that they'll never forget.
Agree, key is that the OP lives on a lake. That being the case he’s gotta have a decent boat, otherwise what’s the point of living on a lake? Unfortunately now isn’t a great time to be buying a “new” boat. The OP should keep looking and proceed when it makes sense.
Hoosier CPA
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by Hoosier CPA »

Family bought an 07 X15 four summers ago. Been a great experience. Have a family lakehouse that we get a lot of use out of, and this boat has been great for that.
DoubleComma
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by DoubleComma »

mrjohnanderson007 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:16 am
DoubleComma wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:47 pm
mrjohnanderson007 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:33 pm You said old boat does it's job, new boat does essentially same thing.
Spoken like someone who has no knowledge of water sports these days.

A 20 year old 20’ boat won’t surf in most instances.

So many variables in a modern boat come into play. Talking about things like total water ballast, ballast location, GSA Surf Tabs, and unbelievable horse power that are required to create a surf-able wave.

A well maintained 20 year old 20’ ski boat can’t keep up. You can spend piles of money trying to make it surf, and someone will tell me about her the barefoot boat they converted to a surf boat…but it really takes a newer boat with newer hull designs and all the features to make a wave capable of riding without the rope.

Furthermore I’m in my mid-40s currently and wakeboard and skiing flats beats a guy up. I still wakeboard, but we are probably 90% surfing now as family. My kids exclusively surf. Wake surfing is very low impact and something I fully expect to be capable for for another 20+ years. These things also matter when spending on a hobby.
20 years of skiing and wakeboarding here. 10 years of superjets and waveblasters. Went wakesurfing a few times but I had lost interest in water sports and the price tag it took to enjoy a hobby. If wakesurfing is worth 40k. Okay. Otherwise OP could spend 40k on other things with family to build memories.

Can't you buy a darn nice used SUPRA or MOOMBA for $30,000-$35,000 anymore? Mastercraft was always the Cadillac. Paying for the name.
I’ve not seen a “darn nice used” anything for $30-$35 in the past 5-6 years. The top in price escalation has pulled the used boat market to unbelievable highs. This is pre-Covid and pre-chip shortage; surfing has caused a renaissance in water sports.
toomanysidehustles
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:09 am

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by toomanysidehustles »

Can't you buy a darn nice used SUPRA or MOOMBA for $30,000-$35,000 anymore? Mastercraft was always the Cadillac. Paying for the name.

We have a 2004 Moomba Mobius and it surfs great. Probably $35-40K in this market, maybe more now. We paid $30K cash 3 years ago. Some of our friends have $125-$200K surf boats they financed and our paid for boat looks pretty darn nice. ;)
michaeljc70
Posts: 7897
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by michaeljc70 »

As a former boat owner I have nothing against them but the 4.75% mortgage would bother me. I know it is business related, but in the end that is coming out of your pocket. I would try and get that paid off or at a lower rate before upgrading my boat. Of course you can afford a newer boat though.
averagelonghorn
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by averagelonghorn »

Boatguy wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:13 pm Is winterization customary in central Texas? Curious to know whether or not insurance covered your freeze damage….
It is for sure customary, or at least recommended. Not doing it is a gamble; one I lost this past winter. (I think mostly if it is garage kept, winterizing is a little more optional than if it's outdoors or under a carport like mine.) Sometimes I'm on the ball, sometimes I have rolled the dice. From here on out I have promised myself I'll either do it myself if I have the time or make the call for an appointment by Thanksgiving.

I had let insurance lapse, but my step brother also had a block crack in the freeze, and his insurance did not cover the freeze damage, but somehow at the same time he had other damage that was covered.... not sure how that all worked exactly.
skime
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by skime »

TarHeel2002 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 pm We live on the lake. We currently have a 20 year old ski boat that still gets the job done (tubing, skiing, etc)..

Thinking of upgrading to a newer (not brand new) boat with less hours, better interior, few more creature comforts...to do essentially the same thing as the 20 year old boat. Looking at 50-60k range...this boat would probably last us 10+ years and be a lot of fun for the family/memories on the water etc.

Married 39 yo with 3 kids (8,6,0)

Annual income 260k
Total retirement savings = 663k
Emergency fund = 35k
529 savings = 86k

Annual 529 savings = 18k
Annual retirement savings = 50k (I've been saving an additional 3k/month in taxable)

Home mortgage 149k @ 3.125% ($750 month payment)
Rental mortgage for business/building I own 180k @ 4.75% (1616/month payment)

I could probably get 8-10k for the 20 year old boat on trade in or trying to sell in myself. I'm thinking I could save another 40k by next summer without affecting retirement or 529 contributions. That would result in me being able to pay cash or close to it for next summer. We're fine with the old boat this summer. Certainly not a need and it would temporarily stop the 3k/month taxable contributions for about a year but definitely something I've been contemplating for awhile. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks. :beer
One other comment to make...

If at all possible, save up the cash to buy the boat. I was never a fan of paying interest on a depreciating asset.
bluebolt
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:01 am

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by bluebolt »

HomerJ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:51 pm
Andymoler58 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:41 pm I bought a 65k boat last year and got a 20 yr loan at 4.5% from bank of the west.

I def don’t think you should pay cash if you can get those terms.

It only costs me $371/mo
Paying off that loan is a guaranteed 4.5% return. There are currently no guaranteed returns that high in CDs or bonds.

Stocks are likely to beat it, but there's no guarantee. Are you 100% stocks?

20-year loan? :shock:
SJNK
1 year return is 14.93%
3 year return is 5.94%
5 year return is 6.11%

Yes it's not "guaranteed," but that's a pretty decent 5 year return for a bond ETF.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SJNK/performance/

Even BND has a 3.36% 10 year return. So, it's not a crazy risk to take out a loan at 4.5% if you can afford it.

Since 1919, the worst 20 year annualized return for the S&P 500 was 3.1% and the best was 17.1%.
https://www.crestmontresearch.com/docs/ ... eturns.pdf
flyfishers83
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:08 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by flyfishers83 »

The big problem with long boat loans is getting on the boat treadmill. I fish with guys that don’t seem like they should be able to afford the boat they are running. They take a 20 year note, run the boat for 3-5 years, trade in for better boat. They’re underwater, but I don’t know if they pay off or roll the debt. Boats have gotten really impressive in terms of technology, but that stuff is expensive.

With surf boats specifically, I wonder how some of the ballast control and wake making tech will hold up. I gotta imagine fixing some of those systems will be horribly expensive.
User avatar
dziuniek
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Location: C0rrupticut

Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by dziuniek »

mrspock wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:11 pm Worst. Idea. Ever. Instead, join HedgeFundie's Adventure (search for thread), invest it, and buy a Yacht like the rest of us in about 20 years.
+1, first to lambo wins.
Get rich or die tryin'
hotscot
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:05 am

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by hotscot »

What's the saying?

Boat = Bring Out Another Thousand.
tibbitts
Posts: 14960
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by tibbitts »

hotscot wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:17 pm What's the saying?

Boat = Bring Out Another Thousand.
I believe the OP and everyone else is aware of that saying and the fact that pleasure boating can be an expensive activity, so I'm not sure what the OP should take from that response.
hotscot
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:05 am

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by hotscot »

Whatever they want...

I just heard it today. Thought it was funny.
If you have a problem I do apologize and didn't mean to offend you. :(
sailaway
Posts: 3627
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: 80-100k boat purchase??

Post by sailaway »

hotscot wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:07 pm Whatever they want...

I just heard it today. Thought it was funny.
If you have a problem I do apologize and didn't mean to offend you.
If you just heard it today, why did you post it as a saying?
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