problems with Paypal

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grok87
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problems with Paypal

Post by grok87 »

So i'm being forced to use paypal to pay certain fees for groups that i belong to. I would say my experience has been unsettling so far.

After using paypal for the first time last year to pay the fee, later on some mysterious fees showed up on my credit card with paypal as the vendor. they weren't large enough to dispute and may have been legitimate charges for some food vendor who used paypal. see this article for example
https://www.theinternetpatrol.com/are-y ... heres-why/

luckily the credit card i had linked to paypal expired. lesson learned i decided to link a gift visa card (that i had purchased) to my paypal account to cap the downside fraud risk. unfortunately this became a huge hassle as paypal refused to authorize the card.

so i'm curious about other bogleheads experience with paypal and what to do from here.

thanks
grok
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Vulcan
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by Vulcan »

Dispute any unauthorized charges directly with your financial institution.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
exodusNH
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by exodusNH »

grok87 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:14 pm So i'm being forced to use paypal to pay certain fees for groups that i belong to. I would say my experience has been unsettling so far.

After using paypal for the first time last year to pay the fee, later on some mysterious fees showed up on my credit card with paypal as the vendor. they weren't large enough to dispute and may have been legitimate charges for some food vendor who used paypal. see this article for example
https://www.theinternetpatrol.com/are-y ... heres-why/

luckily the credit card i had linked to paypal expired. lesson learned i decided to link a gift visa card (that i had purchased) to my paypal account to cap the downside fraud risk. unfortunately this became a huge hassle as paypal refused to authorize the card.

so i'm curious about other bogleheads experience with paypal and what to do from here.

thanks
grok
They can tell the difference between gift cards and debit/credit. Also, address validation fails with gift cards, which might be the problem.

Do any of your credit cards offer virtual numbers? You can usually set per virtual card limits.
hotscot
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by hotscot »

' they weren't large enough to dispute'

Why? With PayPal I would dispute 10 cents but do it via bank/CC company.
I hate them with a passion and will never deal with anyone who uses them.
I will illustrate a certain fraudulent behavior, and substantiated, that they support. I fought them via Chase and won.
Too late now I will update tomorrow.
Katietsu
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by Katietsu »

If you log in to your PayPal account, you should be able to look at each transaction just like you would with any credit card or checking account. Did you look in your PayPal account to see if there are transactions that match those “mysterious fees” on your credit card statement?

I have used PayPal occasionally for maybe 15+ years. No problems. Since I am using a credit card, I would be protected from fraudulent charges anyway. But I have not had any associated with PayPal.

One caution would be that PayPal sometimes will ask if you want to stay logged in. I had a relative accidentally make this selection. This meant a grandkid could use PayPal on that device without a password.
123
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by 123 »

I've been using Paypal for over 5 years, much more so since the pandemic. I haven't had any problems or unusual charges with it. I think it's an excellent tool to keep from disclosing credit card info for purchases for many websites where it is available. It's just easier than the hassle of a virtual credit card number. The downside is to avoid using it for subscription purposes since it will likely always have a valid credit card or bank information on file.
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bradinsky
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by bradinsky »

123 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:11 pm I've been using Paypal for over 5 years, much more so since the pandemic. I haven't had any problems or unusual charges with it. I think it's an excellent tool to keep from disclosing credit card info for purchases for many websites where it is available. It's just easier than the hassle of a virtual credit card number. The downside is to avoid using it for subscription purposes since it will likely always have a valid credit card or bank information on file.
+1 I’ve use it for many years & feel exactly the same. I also use Venmo, which is a subsidiary of PayPal, to allow my rental house tenant to pay us monthly. Works great.
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markjk
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by markjk »

For all one-time purchases you generally need to log into PayPal at the time of purchase to complete the sale. You can set-up recurring payments via PayPal and maybe that is where you ran into the misunderstood charges. You should have full control of this however so make sure to review the set-up on your account and especially any recurring payments.

I've had PayPal for maybe a decade or more. I've used it more the past couple of years than ever. I've not had issues (that I'm aware of).
Ramjet
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by Ramjet »

Some methods of payment for PayPal have fees, others don't
Last edited by Ramjet on Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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z3r0c00l
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by z3r0c00l »

Ramjet wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:21 am Some methods pf payment for PayPal have fees, others don't
This is true and it sounds like the organization passed the transaction fee on to the OP or something like that. I have had one bad experience but not sure I can blame it on PayPal. I sold a small item on Ebay that had a quick expiration date, just 14 days before it couldn't be used. The person who purchased it sent it back claiming he clicked 'buy' by accident and I refused to refund a now worthless gift card. He knew the conditions or should have from the listing. Ebay sided with him, however, and extracted the money out of my PayPal account without permission. That would not have happened with a normal bank and I basically lost out on $80. Now that PayPal and Ebay are separated, perhaps this can't happen anymore.
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Kenkat
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by Kenkat »

I’ve used Paypal for 20+ years and have not had any problems with it. If you see a charge that you don’t think you made, dispute it. You’ve just got to be diligent about transactions you make and review activity frequently in today’s electronic world.
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dwickenh
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by dwickenh »

Have been using Paypal for over 12 years without any problems. I enjoy the ease of receiving money for mortgages I own.

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testing321
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by testing321 »

123 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:11 pmI think it's an excellent tool to keep from disclosing credit card info for purchases for many websites where it is available. It's just easier than the hassle of a virtual credit card number.
This is one reason I use it often. I give the grandkids a budget for their birthdays and they sometimes want something from an unfamiliar website and I feel safer using PayPal then giving them my CC info. Not to mention 2FA and currently 5% CB from Discover card and sometimes from Chase.
epictetus
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by epictetus »

when i have used paypal in the past i have used it for that purchase only (i have never set up an account with paypal or linked a credit card to paypal).

i have to enter my personal and credit card info each time i do this but would rather do that than create an account there, have my credit card info stored/available there, etc.

that might be an option to consider
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anon_investor
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by anon_investor »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:54 am I’ve used Paypal for 20+ years and have not had any problems with it. If you see a charge that you don’t think you made, dispute it. You’ve just got to be diligent about transactions you make and review activity frequently in today’s electronic world.
+1.
Topic Author
grok87
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by grok87 »

epictetus wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:49 pm when i have used paypal in the past i have used it for that purchase only (i have never set up an account with paypal or linked a credit card to paypal).

i have to enter my personal and credit card info each time i do this but would rather do that than create an account there, have my credit card info stored/available there, etc.

that might be an option to consider
thanks, i'll see if that works
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ResearchMed
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by ResearchMed »

grok87 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:41 pm
epictetus wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:49 pm when i have used paypal in the past i have used it for that purchase only (i have never set up an account with paypal or linked a credit card to paypal).

i have to enter my personal and credit card info each time i do this but would rather do that than create an account there, have my credit card info stored/available there, etc.

that might be an option to consider
thanks, i'll see if that works
I had avoided "using PayPal" for quite some time, until I realized that when you are prompted to "pay using PayPal" - or whatever that prompt is - there is usually (always?) an almost immediate choice to pay using a regular charge card, without using any PayPal "account". I assume it is using some PayPal software, however, but don't know quite how that operates.
I don't think there was any hint that that was possible where the PayPal link is shown; I had previously assumed that clicking there meant I was going to need a PayPal account, etc.

But the point is that one does not need to "use" a PayPal account, and the charge shows up as a regular charge using that particular card, as if there had been nothing about PayPal from the start.
That works for me!

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hotscot
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by hotscot »

I discovered to my ire that PayPal are complicit in supporting fraudulent behavior.

Here's the scenario.

One of my hobbies is building model spaceships.
I've been searching for ages for a particular model kit.
Finally I tracked one down via a respectable looking website and I asked if he'd sell and deliver to the US from China. (Thinking if it's a fake I can do chargeback
He asked that I pay via PayPal using my Chase card. Fine by me, no issue. PayPal has all these guarantees.
He sends a confirmation/tracking number...fine....
Then time passes, week after week and no joy. He apologizes for delay and says it will be shipping soon. (He has my full address.)
Eventually three weeks later he emails to say that it has shipped that day from China and I thought, great!
However, two days later the tracking says 'delivered' :confused.
I contacted him to no avail. He had my payment but clearly did not deliver.
So I contact PayPal and they were useless. I start a chargeback via Chase.
PayPal fought this claiming tracking # showed it had been delivered.
But No! No!...the tracking number showed it had been delivered to my town zip code...not to my address. I even contacted USPS who confirmed it did not go to my address. No package on that day.
Here's the clincher, PayPal accepted the zip code as proof it had been delivered. Not my address but the zip code of 40,000 people. And they supported the bogus seller. And denied my refund for the non existent delivery.
Sorry to go on about this, I persevered, gave all my evidence to Chase, and they provided my chargeback. But it was a journey.
But in conclusion, PayPal accepts zip codes from bogus sellers, as proof of delivery. And they support the bogus seller rather than the customer.
Apparently it's a common scam.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Dis ... -p/1841918
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Dis ... -p/1841058
Last edited by hotscot on Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Katietsu
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by Katietsu »

hotscot wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:15 pm I discovered to my ire that PayPal are complicit in supporting fraudulent behavior.

Here's the scenario.

One of my hobbies is building model spaceships.
I've been searching for ages for a particular model kit.
Finally I tracked one down via a respectable looking website and I asked if he'd sell and deliver to the US. (Thinking if it's a fake I can do chargeback
What happened? The general consensus is that Paypal favors the buyer.
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beyou
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by beyou »

z3r0c00l wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:36 am
Ramjet wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:21 am Some methods pf payment for PayPal have fees, others don't
This is true and it sounds like the organization passed the transaction fee on to the OP or something like that. I have had one bad experience but not sure I can blame it on PayPal. I sold a small item on Ebay that had a quick expiration date, just 14 days before it couldn't be used. The person who purchased it sent it back claiming he clicked 'buy' by accident and I refused to refund a now worthless gift card. He knew the conditions or should have from the listing. Ebay sided with him, however, and extracted the money out of my PayPal account without permission. That would not have happened with a normal bank and I basically lost out on $80. Now that PayPal and Ebay are separated, perhaps this can't happen anymore.
Ebay wants to pay you by having direct access to your checking account now. So they probably can reverse your payment.
z3r0c00l
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Re: problems with Paypal

Post by z3r0c00l »

beyou wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:31 pm
z3r0c00l wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:36 am
Ramjet wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:21 am Some methods pf payment for PayPal have fees, others don't
This is true and it sounds like the organization passed the transaction fee on to the OP or something like that. I have had one bad experience but not sure I can blame it on PayPal. I sold a small item on Ebay that had a quick expiration date, just 14 days before it couldn't be used. The person who purchased it sent it back claiming he clicked 'buy' by accident and I refused to refund a now worthless gift card. He knew the conditions or should have from the listing. Ebay sided with him, however, and extracted the money out of my PayPal account without permission. That would not have happened with a normal bank and I basically lost out on $80. Now that PayPal and Ebay are separated, perhaps this can't happen anymore.
Ebay wants to pay you by having direct access to your checking account now. So they probably can reverse your payment.
I made that switch and am fine with it I suppose, just with the knowledge now that they will never side with me as a seller and I should be more careful about what I sell and to whom. Have made many thousands with them over the years so it is generally a good arrangement.
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