Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Vangua

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jeffyscott
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by jeffyscott »

mkc wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:05 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:41 am
Outafter20 wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:21 pm https://riabiz.com/a/2021/8/31/charles- ... -crossfire

Was thinking about moving our accounts over to Schwab, so I guess we would have to convert from mutual funds to ETFs first.We do have some Primecap that I will probably hold on to.
Fidelity also charges $75.
And Fidelity has for years, not just for Vanguard but for Dodge and Cox and T. Rowe Price (and doesn't offer many TRP funds). Until this change, Schwab didn't charge for D&C or TRP. Not sure if the new commission fee structure at Schwab includes TRP or not
TRP is NTF at Fidelity. D&C has always had a transaction fee at Schwab.

T. Rowe became NTF at Schwab when they agreed to pay up in 2017:
https://www.troweprice.com/corporate/us ... n-fee.html

And about the same time at Fidelity:
https://citywireusa.com/professional-bu ... m/a1036609
The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions. ― John C. Bogle
Retired1809
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by Retired1809 »

I have a related question: As a former Scottrade customer, TD Ameritrade honored my $15 commission on any non-NTF mutual fund trade. Has anyone heard - or have an opinion on whether Schwab will honor this $15 commission rate?
nalor511
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by nalor511 »

Retired1809 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:58 pm I have a related question: As a former Scottrade customer, TD Ameritrade honored my $15 commission on any non-NTF mutual fund trade. Has anyone heard - or have an opinion on whether Schwab will honor this $15 commission rate?
A..s...k... them? Sounds like a very specific, likely rare, situation.
Retired1809
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by Retired1809 »

nalor511 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:13 pm
Retired1809 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:58 pm I have a related question: As a former Scottrade customer, TD Ameritrade honored my $15 commission on any non-NTF mutual fund trade. Has anyone heard - or have an opinion on whether Schwab will honor this $15 commission rate?
A..s...k... them? Sounds like a very specific, likely rare, situation.
Are you suggesting that I wait until my TDA accounts move to Schwab and then Ask Schwab? Or are you suggesting asking TDA now? Or call the new accounts desk at Schwab before my TDA accounts transfer to Schwab?
nalor511
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by nalor511 »

Retired1809 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 pm
nalor511 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:13 pm
Retired1809 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:58 pm I have a related question: As a former Scottrade customer, TD Ameritrade honored my $15 commission on any non-NTF mutual fund trade. Has anyone heard - or have an opinion on whether Schwab will honor this $15 commission rate?
A..s...k... them? Sounds like a very specific, likely rare, situation.
Are you suggesting that I wait until my TDA accounts move to Schwab and then Ask Schwab? Or are you suggesting asking TDA now? Or call the new accounts desk at Schwab before my TDA accounts transfer to Schwab?
If it were me I would pursue whatever avenue I thought would get me the outcome I want. Since you're looking for multiple layers of grandfathering it may or may not work out, and I recommend having a plan B
egrets
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by egrets »

cuda74360 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:39 pm I also wonder why Schwab appears to be handing out fee waivers to anyone that asks, but is increasing the purchase fee for everyone else who doesn't.
I asked and they said they'd do a waiver one time only as a courtesy. I have about $240,000 there.
nalor511
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by nalor511 »

egrets wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:36 pm
cuda74360 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:39 pm I also wonder why Schwab appears to be handing out fee waivers to anyone that asks, but is increasing the purchase fee for everyone else who doesn't.
I asked and they said they'd do a waiver one time only as a courtesy. I have about $240,000 there.
Some say 250k is the cutoff
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galawdawg
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by galawdawg »

nalor511 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:44 pm
egrets wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:36 pm
cuda74360 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:39 pm I also wonder why Schwab appears to be handing out fee waivers to anyone that asks, but is increasing the purchase fee for everyone else who doesn't.
I asked and they said they'd do a waiver one time only as a courtesy. I have about $240,000 there.
Some say 250k is the cutoff
And it is certainly possible that the criteria has changed in light of the change in the amount of the transaction fee. Perhaps others considering a switch to Schwab will report on their success/failure with fund family mutual fund fee waivers as it relates to their portfolio size.
mkc
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by mkc »

jeffyscott wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:41 pm
mkc wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:05 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:41 am
Outafter20 wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:21 pm https://riabiz.com/a/2021/8/31/charles- ... -crossfire

Was thinking about moving our accounts over to Schwab, so I guess we would have to convert from mutual funds to ETFs first.We do have some Primecap that I will probably hold on to.
Fidelity also charges $75.
And Fidelity has for years, not just for Vanguard but for Dodge and Cox and T. Rowe Price (and doesn't offer many TRP funds). Until this change, Schwab didn't charge for D&C or TRP. Not sure if the new commission fee structure at Schwab includes TRP or not
TRP is NTF at Fidelity. D&C has always had a transaction fee at Schwab.

T. Rowe became NTF at Schwab when they agreed to pay up in 2017:
https://www.troweprice.com/corporate/us ... n-fee.html

And about the same time at Fidelity:
https://citywireusa.com/professional-bu ... m/a1036609
Not all TRP funds are available. MidCap Value (TRMCX) is one Fidelity cannot accept as an in-kind transfer. Obviously not an issue for most BH, but it is for those who bought it pre-BH. It is available at Schwab.
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jeffyscott
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by jeffyscott »

mkc wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:49 am
jeffyscott wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:41 pm
mkc wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:05 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:41 am
Outafter20 wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:21 pm https://riabiz.com/a/2021/8/31/charles- ... -crossfire

Was thinking about moving our accounts over to Schwab, so I guess we would have to convert from mutual funds to ETFs first.We do have some Primecap that I will probably hold on to.
Fidelity also charges $75.
And Fidelity has for years, not just for Vanguard but for Dodge and Cox and T. Rowe Price (and doesn't offer many TRP funds). Until this change, Schwab didn't charge for D&C or TRP. Not sure if the new commission fee structure at Schwab includes TRP or not
TRP is NTF at Fidelity. D&C has always had a transaction fee at Schwab.

T. Rowe became NTF at Schwab when they agreed to pay up in 2017:
https://www.troweprice.com/corporate/us ... n-fee.html

And about the same time at Fidelity:
https://citywireusa.com/professional-bu ... m/a1036609
Not all TRP funds are available. MidCap Value (TRMCX) is one Fidelity cannot accept as an in-kind transfer. Obviously not an issue for most BH, but it is for those who bought it pre-BH. It is available at Schwab.
That's odd, I wonder why? Apparently they allow the advisor class (TAMVX), but with transaction fees on top of the even higher ER.

I first thought maybe because it's closed, but the closed Capital Appreciation (PRWCX) is NTF.
The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions. ― John C. Bogle
cuda74360
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by cuda74360 »

galawdawg wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:03 am And it is certainly possible that the criteria has changed in light of the change in the amount of the transaction fee. Perhaps others considering a switch to Schwab will report on their success/failure with fund family mutual fund fee waivers as it relates to their portfolio size.
It might have. I talked to a Schwab consultant today and when I inquired about a fee waiver he shrugged it off and said I can just buy their index funds and that theirs are cheaper. My wife and I would be transferring in a little under $600K combined.

I'll have to use their index funds anyways if I want to auto-invest like I'm doing now at Vanguard. But, if they'll match the Ally offer, then I should still come out ahead vs staying with Vanguard even if their index funds continue to (slightly) underperform the Vanguard funds. And only our new Roth contributions would be going into them. But I'm not sure that I'm going to make the switch even if they do match it. The conversation felt very much like talking to a salesman and he balked when he found out that we weren't bringing in $600K each, vs combined, even though I clearly stated that in my initial inquiry.

I also talked to an E-trade rep at the closest local office who was very laid back and answered my questions without trying to sell me anything.
Rikaku
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by Rikaku »

cuda74360 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:37 pm
galawdawg wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:03 am And it is certainly possible that the criteria has changed in light of the change in the amount of the transaction fee. Perhaps others considering a switch to Schwab will report on their success/failure with fund family mutual fund fee waivers as it relates to their portfolio size.
But I'm not sure that I'm going to make the switch even if they do match it. The conversation felt very much like talking to a salesman and he balked when he found out that we weren't bringing in $600K each, vs combined, even though I clearly stated that in my initial inquiry.

I also talked to an E-trade rep at the closest local office who was very laid back and answered my questions without trying to sell me anything.
I came away feeling the same after speaking with Schwab. The guy was very nice, but a little too...polished. It made me think back to what JL Collins said about why he stays with Vanguard and feeling better about sticking with a firm, warts and all, that you at least know have your interests at heart. I hesitate to switch based on friendliness and smooth talking when I have no guarantee in the future they will not change a policy or start charging a new fee or something once I am there and have a substantial amount of money with them; with Vanguard I don't have to worry about that.
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peterinjapan
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by peterinjapan »

This odd drama about buying and selling unsupported mutual funds through companies like Schwab or Fidelity is a big reason why I am 100% invested in ETFs, except for one fund I've been riding for a decade or so and don't want to take profits on.
manlymatt83
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by manlymatt83 »

I wish I knew what the fee waiver was. I have more than $250k at Schwab but haven’t been able to get one.

I wish Schwab had an emerging markets mutual fund. If they did, I would use SWTSX, SWISX, and the EM fund to replace VTWAX and be happy. Given the lack of an EM fund, I generally find myself sticking with VTWAX.

For those that don’t know, you can make $99 purchases of vanguard funds commission free at Schwab. Sometimes I make 10 in one night. Haven’t had an issue but it may come back to bite me some day.
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by anon_investor »

manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:35 pm I wish I knew what the fee waiver was. I have more than $250k at Schwab but haven’t been able to get one.

I wish Schwab had an emerging markets mutual fund. If they did, I would use SWTSX, SWISX, and the EM fund to replace VTWAX and be happy. Given the lack of an EM fund, I generally find myself sticking with VTWAX.

For those that don’t know, you can make $99 purchases of vanguard funds commission free at Schwab. Sometimes I make 10 in one night. Haven’t had an issue but it may come back to bite me some day.
Any reason you don't want to buy VT?
nalor511
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by nalor511 »

manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:35 pm I wish I knew what the fee waiver was. I have more than $250k at Schwab but haven’t been able to get one.

I wish Schwab had an emerging markets mutual fund. If they did, I would use SWTSX, SWISX, and the EM fund to replace VTWAX and be happy. Given the lack of an EM fund, I generally find myself sticking with VTWAX.

For those that don’t know, you can make $99 purchases of vanguard funds commission free at Schwab. Sometimes I make 10 in one night. Haven’t had an issue but it may come back to bite me some day.
Buy VWO, VT, VEA, VXUS... ETFs are the answer
manlymatt83
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by manlymatt83 »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:37 pm
manlymatt83 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:35 pm I wish I knew what the fee waiver was. I have more than $250k at Schwab but haven’t been able to get one.

I wish Schwab had an emerging markets mutual fund. If they did, I would use SWTSX, SWISX, and the EM fund to replace VTWAX and be happy. Given the lack of an EM fund, I generally find myself sticking with VTWAX.

For those that don’t know, you can make $99 purchases of vanguard funds commission free at Schwab. Sometimes I make 10 in one night. Haven’t had an issue but it may come back to bite me some day.
Any reason you don't want to buy VT?
Before when I bought VT, I got too tempted to “play”:

- Let me sell some today and re-buy it next week…
- Let me sell a covered call against these 100 shares since I’m pretty sure the market is going to have a drawdown next week…

When I switched to VTWAX, I stopped logging in. My account no longer showed minute by minute changes, I couldn’t sell a covered call even if I wanted to, and I wasn’t tempted to change my IPS on a whim because selling or buying is either costly or painful.

Maybe I’m more disciplined now and could try VT again. I worry I’m not.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Charles Schwab & Co. jacks up mutual fund commissions 50% to $74.95 on retail investors to counter freeloading by Va

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Rikaku wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:00 pm
cuda74360 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:37 pm
galawdawg wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:03 am And it is certainly possible that the criteria has changed in light of the change in the amount of the transaction fee. Perhaps others considering a switch to Schwab will report on their success/failure with fund family mutual fund fee waivers as it relates to their portfolio size.
But I'm not sure that I'm going to make the switch even if they do match it. The conversation felt very much like talking to a salesman and he balked when he found out that we weren't bringing in $600K each, vs combined, even though I clearly stated that in my initial inquiry.

I also talked to an E-trade rep at the closest local office who was very laid back and answered my questions without trying to sell me anything.
I came away feeling the same after speaking with Schwab. The guy was very nice, but a little too...polished. It made me think back to what JL Collins said about why he stays with Vanguard and feeling better about sticking with a firm, warts and all, that you at least know have your interests at heart. I hesitate to switch based on friendliness and smooth talking when I have no guarantee in the future they will not change a policy or start charging a new fee or something once I am there and have a substantial amount of money with them; with Vanguard I don't have to worry about that.
Seems to me that Vanguard has been changing policy after policy in the last several years. I'm even willing to go out on a limb and say that Vanguard has changed more of its policies than Schwab has changed of theirs in the last five years. (Full disclosure: I have taxable accounts at both.)
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