Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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AndMan
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:14 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by AndMan »

FWIW our quotes from NYL are twice as much as our previous ones from bankers before they stopped accepting applications for those of us under 40.

Is anyone concerned about whether the asset flex program with New York life would qualify? The monthly limit amount seems lower then the wa program if I am reading it right. (I know there is no wording from the state regarding which specific plans will qualify at this time).
Last edited by AndMan on Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
intendi
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:16 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by intendi »

Edit 7/13: Went with the NY Life plan. Application submitted today.

Any thoughts on this plan from Nationwide? Talking to NY Life this week as well.

Nationwide No-Lapse Guaranteed UL w/Long-Term Care Rider

LTC Benefit Pool / Death Benefit: $100,000 (minimum)

Maximum LTC Benefi:t $4,000 per month

Minimum LTC Benefit Duration: 25 months / 2 years, 1 month

Benefit Type: Indemnity; No inflation protection; 90 day elimination period

Return of Premium Benefit: Available for additional cost

Guarantees: Benefits and Premium Guaranteed

Premium Amount: $154/mo

Premium Paying Duration: Paid to age 120 with flexibility available

Alternate Premium Option: $223/mo to age 65 only

Disability waiver rider: Available for additional cost
Last edited by intendi on Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
AndMan
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:14 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by AndMan »

For those that have looked at New York Life asset flex, what are your thoughts on it compared to a traditional long-term care plan? Struggling to decide which is right for my wife and I.
Phaethon
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:54 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Phaethon »

I've only recently learned about all of this and I'm trying to figure out what to do. Fortunately, our company's benefit broker is hosting some webinars about this, one today at noon. But here's what our company has said about all of this in an emai:
Because you can apply for an exemption if you own a long-term care policy, $COMPANY will be offering a voluntary plan for employees and their spouses. To avoid the new payroll tax being taken out effective January 1st, you need to opt out prior to November 1st. The enrollment period will begin on July 12th and information on how to apply for the coverage is attached to this email.

If you purchase an LTC policy, either through $COMPANY or on your own, you can apply for an exemption from the state tax between October 1, 2021, through December 31, 2022, attesting that you have long-term-care insurance at the time of your application. Once your opt-out application is approved, your exemption will be effective starting the next quarter. Please be aware that the tax will be deducted from your paycheck until you provide proof of your exemption to Payroll. The State's opt-out form and instructions for opting out is not expected to be available until the enrollment window's opening date of October 1st.

This new tax can be confusing so that is why we recommend attending one of the webinars, reading the material provided and if you have one, going over this with your Financial Planner or Personal Insurance Broker
So we'll see what comes from this webinar and follow-ups from my company. Fingers crossed!
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batpot
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by batpot »

intendi wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:10 am Edit 7/13: Went with the NY Life plan. Application submitted today.

Any thoughts on this plan from Nationwide? Talking to NY Life this week as well.

Nationwide No-Lapse Guaranteed UL w/Long-Term Care Rider

LTC Benefit Pool / Death Benefit: $100,000 (minimum)

Maximum LTC Benefi:t $4,000 per month

Minimum LTC Benefit Duration: 25 months / 2 years, 1 month

Benefit Type: Indemnity; No inflation protection; 90 day elimination period

Return of Premium Benefit: Available for additional cost

Guarantees: Benefits and Premium Guaranteed

Premium Amount: $154/mo

Premium Paying Duration: Paid to age 120 with flexibility available

Alternate Premium Option: $223/mo to age 65 only

Disability waiver rider: Available for additional cost
Not worth it unless you're making over $300k/year, plus, you will have to continue paying the premiums into retirement to actually get the benefit.
On the other hand, might be worth it to get the policy and then cancel it.

My company is giving a 1 week window to sign up at the end of this month, and have no preview of the rates.

However, many companies are jacking up the rates in WA.
milktoast
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by milktoast »

batpot wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:25 pm My company is giving a 1 week window to sign up at the end of this month, and have no preview of the rates.

However, many companies are jacking up the rates in WA.
Similar situation. But I have a preview on the rates. They aren't great. I was working with an independent broker and liked their "nobody would buy this policy" quote better. But that quote evaporated because I didn't get in the application fast enough (and I'm in my early 50s).

I'm probably going to sign up for an employer group policy that costs around $1800/yr for $3k/month benefit with lifetime cap of $225k. No inflation adjustments. So that's a breakeven income of around $335k / year. And the premiums are not fixed. It makes sense for me. But obviously isn't universally applicable.

I'll drop it if I can get a better policy next year on the free market. Due to personality issues, I can't opt-out then drop all coverage - wouldn't feel good about myself. Which is a little irrational since the $36,500 benefit is under 1% of my net worth, so "self insuring" to the level of the state benefit is trivial. But whatever.
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

milktoast wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:54 pm
batpot wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:25 pm My company is giving a 1 week window to sign up at the end of this month, and have no preview of the rates.

However, many companies are jacking up the rates in WA.
Similar situation. But I have a preview on the rates. They aren't great. I was working with an independent broker and liked their "nobody would buy this policy" quote better. But that quote evaporated because I didn't get in the application fast enough (and I'm in my early 50s).

I'm probably going to sign up for an employer group policy that costs around $1800/yr for $3k/month benefit with lifetime cap of $225k. No inflation adjustments. So that's a breakeven income of around $335k / year. And the premiums are not fixed. It makes sense for me. But obviously isn't universally applicable.

I'll drop it if I can get a better policy next year on the free market. Due to personality issues, I can't opt-out then drop all coverage - wouldn't feel good about myself. Which is a little irrational since the $36,500 benefit is under 1% of my net worth, so "self insuring" to the level of the state benefit is trivial. But whatever.
Since you're over 40 check the Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product. It will be more expensive since it's a 15-pay policy but you can get 80% of your premiums back after year 1 if you cancel, up to 100% of your premiums back after year 15.
oakleyram
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:23 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by oakleyram »

I'm in my 30s and am stuck between two Assetflex plans with NY Life. Any thoughts about which to go for?

A) $1000 monthly benefit for 3 years, total $39k benefits. 3% inflation
Premium about $700 a year

B) $3000 monthly benefit for 2 years, total $73k benefits. 3% inflation
Premium about $1400 a year

The agent assures me that both plans would qualify for state exemption due to 7702B designation, and that many clients are signing up for similar plans like A) for opt out. She points out the total benefits exceeds the state plan's, however I am concerned whether the monthly benefit not matching the state's $3000 monthly would be an issue
Unfortunately it seems that minimum duration for Assetflex benefits is 2 years so could not do a quote for a 1 year plan.

Personally I'm leaning towards B) after reading thoughts in this thread about paying for better coverage to avoid any potential barriers for exemption application. However, I hate to pay double the cost for a plan that I don't even want or need, especially when the agent herself is telling me it's unnecessary
:oops:
definitelynotMike
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by definitelynotMike »

oakleyram wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:40 pm I'm in my 30s and am stuck between two Assetflex plans with NY Life. Any thoughts about which to go for?

A) $1000 monthly benefit for 3 years, total $39k benefits. 3% inflation
Premium about $700 a year

B) $3000 monthly benefit for 2 years, total $73k benefits. 3% inflation
Premium about $1400 a year

The agent assures me that both plans would qualify for state exemption due to 7702B designation, and that many clients are signing up for similar plans like A) for opt out. She points out the total benefits exceeds the state plan's, however I am concerned whether the monthly benefit not matching the state's $3000 monthly would be an issue
Unfortunately it seems that minimum duration for Assetflex benefits is 2 years so could not do a quote for a 1 year plan.

Personally I'm leaning towards B) after reading thoughts in this thread about paying for better coverage to avoid any potential barriers for exemption application. However, I hate to pay double the cost for a plan that I don't even want or need, especially when the agent herself is telling me it's unnecessary
:oops:
Short of the legislature reconvening early and changing the law there will be no issue with option A for the current opt-out window. There is currently no requirement to match WA Cares benefits in any way - monthly benefit, total benefit, inflation, etc... - just that you have a LTC policy in place by the deadline that meets the State's definition (https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance).
oakleyram
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:23 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by oakleyram »

Ok that makes me feel better, thanks
Forthewin
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 8:54 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Forthewin »

AndMan wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:38 pm For those that have looked at New York Life asset flex, what are your thoughts on it compared to a traditional long-term care plan? Struggling to decide which is right for my wife and I.
A traditional plan could mean 40+ years of payments. 15 years is better.
Last edited by Forthewin on Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CloveLeaf
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CloveLeaf »

BruDude wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:40 pm
milktoast wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:54 pm
batpot wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:25 pm My company is giving a 1 week window to sign up at the end of this month, and have no preview of the rates.

However, many companies are jacking up the rates in WA.
Similar situation. But I have a preview on the rates. They aren't great. I was working with an independent broker and liked their "nobody would buy this policy" quote better. But that quote evaporated because I didn't get in the application fast enough (and I'm in my early 50s).

I'm probably going to sign up for an employer group policy that costs around $1800/yr for $3k/month benefit with lifetime cap of $225k. No inflation adjustments. So that's a breakeven income of around $335k / year. And the premiums are not fixed. It makes sense for me. But obviously isn't universally applicable.

I'll drop it if I can get a better policy next year on the free market. Due to personality issues, I can't opt-out then drop all coverage - wouldn't feel good about myself. Which is a little irrational since the $36,500 benefit is under 1% of my net worth, so "self insuring" to the level of the state benefit is trivial. But whatever.
Since you're over 40 check the Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product. It will be more expensive since it's a 15-pay policy but you can get 80% of your premiums back after year 1 if you cancel, up to 100% of your premiums back after year 15.
I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

CloveLeaf wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
Here's the find an agent near you link - https://www.securian.com/contact-us/fin ... visor.html


On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
cysewr
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by cysewr »

This is probably a very silly question, but all of this insurance stuff is frying my brain...

My wife and I opted to go with the NY Life (the My Care LTC Silver plan), and have submitted our application. What I am trying to understand is how long we are obligated to keep the plan for. I don't mind keeping it for a couple years if necessary, but want to know what my obligation is up front... I worry that asking a question to that effect of the agent could be a red flag.

Any help would be much appreciated!
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

cysewr wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:46 pm This is probably a very silly question, but all of this insurance stuff is frying my brain...

My wife and I opted to go with the NY Life (the My Care LTC Silver plan), and have submitted our application. What I am trying to understand is how long we are obligated to keep the plan for. I don't mind keeping it for a couple years if necessary, but want to know what my obligation is up front... I worry that asking a question to that effect of the agent could be a red flag.

Any help would be much appreciated!
As written there is no requirement for you to keep it after you get the exemption but if it were me, I'd probably wait a year or two before canceling just to make sure no other legislation is passed requiring proof of coverage every year going forward. Your agent would greatly appreciate if you keep the policy for at least one year too so they don't get charged back for the commission that was paid.
cysewr
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by cysewr »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:53 pm
cysewr wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:46 pm This is probably a very silly question, but all of this insurance stuff is frying my brain...

My wife and I opted to go with the NY Life (the My Care LTC Silver plan), and have submitted our application. What I am trying to understand is how long we are obligated to keep the plan for. I don't mind keeping it for a couple years if necessary, but want to know what my obligation is up front... I worry that asking a question to that effect of the agent could be a red flag.

Any help would be much appreciated!
As written there is no requirement for you to keep it after you get the exemption but if it were me, I'd probably wait a year or two before canceling just to make sure no other legislation is passed requiring proof of coverage every year going forward. Your agent would greatly appreciate if you keep the policy for at least one year too so they don't get charged back for the commission that was paid.
Thanks for the reply. That makes sense - I wouldn't want the agent to have a charge back. Keeping it for a year or two seems like a small price to pay.
CloveLeaf
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CloveLeaf »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm
CloveLeaf wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
Here's the find an agent near you link - https://www.securian.com/contact-us/fin ... visor.html


On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
Great finding! Thank you so much for sharing! Where did you find the software to get quotes?
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

CloveLeaf wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:38 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm
CloveLeaf wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
Here's the find an agent near you link - https://www.securian.com/contact-us/fin ... visor.html


On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
Great finding! Thank you so much for sharing! Where did you find the software to get quotes?
I'm an agent so I have access to the software, it's not available to consumers but you can always call Nationwide and ask. The product name is No-Lapse Guarantee UL II and the LTC coverage is an optional rider.
CloveLeaf
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CloveLeaf »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:57 pm
CloveLeaf wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:38 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm
CloveLeaf wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
Here's the find an agent near you link - https://www.securian.com/contact-us/fin ... visor.html


On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
Great finding! Thank you so much for sharing! Where did you find the software to get quotes?
I'm an agent so I have access to the software, it's not available to consumers but you can always call Nationwide and ask. The product name is No-Lapse Guarantee UL II and the LTC coverage is an optional rider.
Thank you!!
phmbz
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:52 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by phmbz »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm
CloveLeaf wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
Here's the find an agent near you link - https://www.securian.com/contact-us/fin ... visor.html


On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
Thx for sharing. How long do you need to pay those monthly premiums? 5 yrs, 10 yrs, etc.?
RoyHobbs9
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Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

For those thinking about the Nationwide policy, get your applications in now. They are planning to hit the eject button on their LTC rider in WA at any moment. If you decide to go with someone else, you can always just not put the Nationwide policy in-force (by not paying).

Transamerica left the traditional LTC market all together, but still has a competitive IUL (Financial Foundation) with a LTC rider. Only issue with them is they are in the dark ages with paper apps and no expedited underwriting.

United of Omaha's LTC rider can be added to their Income Advantage and Life Protection Advantage products and has expedited underwriting. No idea how long they are going to continue offering it as Mutual of Omaha has pulled out of traditional LTC in WA.

Minn Life/Securian LTC benefit can be added to their SecureCare Universal Life policies. Limited to premium pay periods of 5, 7, 10, 15. We've been having a smooth application and underwriting experience with them.

John Hancock's LTC rider can be added to their Indexed UL and Protection UL, but the min death benefit is $250K in WA. The other negative is that it is a reimbursement pay out, not an indemnity (no direct cash pay out).

Mass Mutual has a Whole Life with LTCi rider. Negative is that it is a reimbursement pay out.

95% of my cases have been through Nationwide, so I will be sad when they bail.
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

phmbz wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:57 am
BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm
CloveLeaf wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm I am interested in this Minnesota Life/Securian Life UL/LTC hybrid product, but couldn't even find out how to get a quote or contact them via their website. Do you happen to know how to get in touch with them to get a quote? Thank you!!
Here's the find an agent near you link - https://www.securian.com/contact-us/fin ... visor.html


On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
Thx for sharing. How long do you need to pay those monthly premiums? 5 yrs, 10 yrs, etc.?
Those are for lifetime pay policies but it would expire at age 70 if set up the way I mentioned.
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:26 pm For those thinking about the Nationwide policy, get your applications in now. They are planning to hit the eject button on their LTC rider in WA at any moment. If you decide to go with someone else, you can always just not put the Nationwide policy in-force (by not paying).

Transamerica left the traditional LTC market all together, but still has a competitive IUL (Financial Foundation) with a LTC rider. Only issue with them is they are in the dark ages with paper apps and no expedited underwriting.

United of Omaha's LTC rider can be added to their Income Advantage and Life Protection Advantage products and has expedited underwriting. No idea how long they are going to continue offering it as Mutual of Omaha has pulled out of traditional LTC in WA.

Minn Life/Securian LTC benefit can be added to their SecureCare Universal Life policies. Limited to premium pay periods of 5, 7, 10, 15. We've been having a smooth application and underwriting experience with them.

John Hancock's LTC rider can be added to their Indexed UL and Protection UL, but the min death benefit is $250K in WA. The other negative is that it is a reimbursement pay out, not an indemnity (no direct cash pay out).

Mass Mutual has a Whole Life with LTCi rider. Negative is that it is a reimbursement pay out.

95% of my cases have been through Nationwide, so I will be sad when they bail.
Figured that was coming. Did you see a date mentioned anywhere? I've been telling my clients to get their apps in ASAP. Transamerica is the absolute worst at everything so I sure hope they don't become one of the only options.
RoyHobbs9
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Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

No date. No official announcement yet. But, I'm guessing it's coming.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:26 pm
95% of my cases have been through Nationwide, so I will be sad when they bail.

99% of my cases have been traditional long-term care insurance.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
LeftCoastIV
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 7:19 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LeftCoastIV »

Coming in late on this. Called insurance broker today. Mid-40s.

Three options (pick one):
[1] LTC policy = $175/month ($2,100/yr)
[2] Universal life with LTC rider = $117/month ($1,400/yr)
[3] $19K annuity with LTC rider, w/ annuity paying 1% annual and surrender fees until 10 years.

I wouldn't buy this normally, so I'm just looking for the cheapest option, which is currently [2] above.

I would need to agree contractually not to cancel for two years.

Apparently, there is a minimum premium for WA state from the insurance company. He says this was a recent change. Not sure what insurance provider he is referring to, or if a trend.

I assume I am being ripped off.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:37 pm Coming in late on this. Called insurance broker today. Mid-40s.

Three options (pick one):
[1] LTC policy = $175/month ($2,100/yr)
[2] Universal life with LTC rider = $117/month ($1,400/yr)
[3] $19K annuity with LTC rider, w/ annuity paying 1% annual and surrender fees until 10 years.

I wouldn't buy this normally, so I'm just looking for the cheapest option, which is currently [2] above.

I would need to agree contractually not to cancel for two years.

Apparently, there is a minimum premium for WA state from the insurance company. He says this was a recent change. Not sure what insurance provider he is referring to, or if a trend.

I assume I am being ripped off.
Nationwide Life/LTC guaranteed to age 70 should cost you around $350-500
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:37 pm Coming in late on this. Called insurance broker today. Mid-40s.

Three options (pick one):
[1] LTC policy = $175/month ($2,100/yr)
[2] Universal life with LTC rider = $117/month ($1,400/yr)
[3] $19K annuity with LTC rider, w/ annuity paying 1% annual and surrender fees until 10 years.

I wouldn't buy this normally, so I'm just looking for the cheapest option, which is currently [2] above.

I would need to agree contractually not to cancel for two years.

Apparently, there is a minimum premium for WA state from the insurance company. He says this was a recent change. Not sure what insurance provider he is referring to, or if a trend.

I assume I am being ripped off.

That is a very odd assortment of options.
You should look for a long-term care insurance specialist.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
LeftCoastIV
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LeftCoastIV »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:45 pm
LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:37 pm Coming in late on this. Called insurance broker today. Mid-40s.

Three options (pick one):
[1] LTC policy = $175/month ($2,100/yr)
[2] Universal life with LTC rider = $117/month ($1,400/yr)
[3] $19K annuity with LTC rider, w/ annuity paying 1% annual and surrender fees until 10 years.

I wouldn't buy this normally, so I'm just looking for the cheapest option, which is currently [2] above.

I would need to agree contractually not to cancel for two years.

Apparently, there is a minimum premium for WA state from the insurance company. He says this was a recent change. Not sure what insurance provider he is referring to, or if a trend.

I assume I am being ripped off.
Nationwide Life/LTC guaranteed to age 70 should cost you around $350-500
Thanks. Just contacted New York Life and was informally told $400-500/year pending details at upcoming meeting.
tj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:12 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:45 pm
LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:37 pm Coming in late on this. Called insurance broker today. Mid-40s.

Three options (pick one):
[1] LTC policy = $175/month ($2,100/yr)
[2] Universal life with LTC rider = $117/month ($1,400/yr)
[3] $19K annuity with LTC rider, w/ annuity paying 1% annual and surrender fees until 10 years.

I wouldn't buy this normally, so I'm just looking for the cheapest option, which is currently [2] above.

I would need to agree contractually not to cancel for two years.

Apparently, there is a minimum premium for WA state from the insurance company. He says this was a recent change. Not sure what insurance provider he is referring to, or if a trend.

I assume I am being ripped off.
Nationwide Life/LTC guaranteed to age 70 should cost you around $350-500
Thanks. Just contacted New York Life and was informally told $400-500/year pending details at upcoming meeting.
You were given info about Nationwide and called NYL? :mrgreen:
SweetFire
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by SweetFire »

Question, should we keep the policy post exemption? Right now it says exemptions are permanent but once the lawmakers find out how many are getting exemptions, it might just create an insolvent program and they might revoke the exemptions.
LeftCoastIV
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LeftCoastIV »

SweetFire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:19 pm Question, should we keep the policy post exemption? Right now it says exemptions are permanent but once the lawmakers find out how many are getting exemptions, it might just create an insolvent program and they might revoke the exemptions.
Or they raise the tax rate, making the exemption even more valuable
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:08 pm
SweetFire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:19 pm Question, should we keep the policy post exemption? Right now it says exemptions are permanent but once the lawmakers find out how many are getting exemptions, it might just create an insolvent program and they might revoke the exemptions.
Or they raise the tax rate, making the exemption even more valuable
The tax rate was never advertised as being fixed anyway.
CMD1
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CMD1 »

Society certainly needs much of this and it's interesting that anyone is trying to address it - the long term care industry has been broken for some time since insurers lost their shirts for underestimating the risk. That said this does seem like a raw deal and not the best way to solve the issue. For those of us not high income earners (I'd pay $600 a year) the products available don't seem to be much of a savings and more about "I don't want to pay a tax." But if your income increases over the years its a different story. I listened to our benefits guy at work (large fortune 500) talk to this and how for most people buying insurance won't lead you to come out ahead and was not going to do anything. Reading comments from BH folks on NY life I'm tempted to call and see if something might make sense.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Update for anyone with an H1B visa (or other visas):

Nationwide will not sell the LTC rider to someone on a visa. John Hancock requires a minimum of $1M policy size for visa holders. That does not leave many (any?) options. Currently checking on Omaha's guidelines for visa holders...
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

In a strange twist of events, apparently my work extended the open enrollment period and went ahead and enrolled me for LTC + Life w/Chubb at the same time as I've been applying for a LTC + Life w/NY Life. The work plan is significantly cheaper (at least for now not sure if that changes in the future). The NY Life plan provides redemption of premiums in the future that Chubb's plan does not AFAIK. Think I have a little bit of time to get out of either (though not lots). Curious if anyone has thoughts on how best to proceed.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
drichard989
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by drichard989 »

For those of you who are catholic males, I was able to get an application in for LTC for $31 a month. Age 24. Will update when completed.

Knights of Columbus insurance
orsetto
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by orsetto »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm On a side note, I was playing around with the Nationwide life insurance/LTC software this morning and there is an option to guarantee the policy only to age 70 instead of through age 120. This drastically reduces the cost of coverage and should still meet the WA state definition of an LTC policy. It's the exact same product structure/benefits, just not guaranteed for life. For a 41 year old female in Preferred Plus health it reduced the cost from $85/month to $26/month and for a 42 year old male in P+ health it reduced it from $102/month to $31/month. So anyone looking at the Nationwide product may want to check into that option. You don't see a UL policy with a guarantee-to-age-70 option very often...they certainly don't promote it!
Thanks for sharing this! I asked my Nationwide agent about this but he said they couldn't generate a quote with P+ health so it came out higher than your examples. If it's not too much trouble, could you help price out 36/female/married with P+ health? The maximum monthly benefit is $4,000 -- $100,000 LTC rider, 4% elected percentage for benefit determination.
AndMan
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by AndMan »

Is everyone with NYL assettflex just doing the bare minimum to avoid the tax or is there any merit to these plans as part of a diversified portfolio? I would have never considered on these as part of our portfolio but of course our agent is pushing hard for higher value plans. His quotes entail premiums of $7000/year which is about 10x what I am seeing mention here. He has scoffed at going any lower.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

AndMan wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 am Is everyone with NYL assettflex just doing the bare minimum to avoid the tax or is there any merit to these plans as part of a diversified portfolio? I would have never considered on these as part of our portfolio but of course our agent is pushing hard for higher value plans. His quotes entail premiums of $7000/year which is about 10x what I am seeing mention here. He has scoffed at going any lower.
whenever an insurance agent starts to frame life insurance as an investment, it's time to walk away.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
phmbz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by phmbz »

AndMan wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 am Is everyone with NYL assettflex just doing the bare minimum to avoid the tax or is there any merit to these plans as part of a diversified portfolio? I would have never considered on these as part of our portfolio but of course our agent is pushing hard for higher value plans. His quotes entail premiums of $7000/year which is about 10x what I am seeing mention here. He has scoffed at going any lower.
Thx for sharing. How many years of payments does this quote require? 5-pay? 10-pay? And what's the monthly benefit and max lifetime benefit?
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Just talked to United of Omaha and they are raising the minimum benefit to $250k tomorrow. They also will not sell the LTC rider to anyone in the US on a visa.
seakrakan
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by seakrakan »

Hi everyone.
Late to the game but any more companies that are still offering to <40yr?
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Another update - Mass Mutual won’t allow visa holders either. So if you’re not a US resident or have a green card, you are probably out of luck
tatakim
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tatakim »

Hello!
Does anyone know if term life insurance policy can have a LTC rider? I'm trying to figure the most affordable way to get private LTC coverage, so that I can avoid the WA payroll tax. Thanks!
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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

tatakim wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:42 pm Hello!
Does anyone know if term life insurance policy can have a LTC rider? I'm trying to figure the most affordable way to get private LTC coverage, so that I can avoid the WA payroll tax. Thanks!
no.
Chartered Financial Consultant (ChFC®) -- However I am not your advisor.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

tatakim wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:42 pm Hello!
Does anyone know if term life insurance policy can have a LTC rider? I'm trying to figure the most affordable way to get private LTC coverage, so that I can avoid the WA payroll tax. Thanks!
It can be done. But, I don't know of any insurance company that offers it.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
WGP3
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WGP3 »

FWIW: I live just outside of Seattle and just signed up for an optional LTCI policy offered through my employer so I can opt out of the WA State program. The policy is with LifeSecure and costs me $340/yr to get a benefit of up to $1k/mo with a $50k max payout. I am a 45 y/o male in good health. I’ll probably cancel it after about a year.
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

WGP3 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:03 pm FWIW: I live just outside of Seattle and just signed up for an optional LTCI policy offered through my employer so I can opt out of the WA State program. The policy is with LifeSecure and costs me $340/yr to get a benefit of up to $1k/mo with a $50k max payout. I am a 45 y/o male in good health. I’ll probably cancel it after about a year.
Are you sure that will be eligible to get exempted from the tax? Supposedly you have to have a same or better plan as the state plan ($100/day benefit, $3000/month).
MrsBDG
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by MrsBDG »

Are you sure that will be eligible to get exempted from the tax? Supposedly you have to have a same or better plan as the state plan ($100/day benefit, $3000/month).
Have you seen this fact posted some place definitive?
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