How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Firemenot
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Firemenot »

tj wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:57 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Carousel wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:04 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:58 pm a. For example, we eliminated every state that has bugs. We live in bug-free environment now and are not going to change that.
b. For example, we eliminated places without major hospitals. Not so important at age 55, but will be more at age 70+.
Serious question. Which states have no bugs?
California.
+ 1. Where I live in California there is no need for screens. Have never been bit by a bug in my town. There are biting mosquitoes in the Sierras. I was in for a surprise my first trip to Yosemite.
Where in CA has no bugs?
First there are some bugs (e.g., spiders and ants), but no mosquitoes or biting flies — or at least not enough such that I’ve never been bit after 5 years spending lots of time outside in my neighborhood. Also it’s no problem leaving the walls to my living room wide open with the lights on in the evening or night. Worst case is maybe a single moth flies in. I live a few blocks from the ocean on the Central Coast.
sport
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by sport »

sk.dolcevita wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm For ageing bones, a townhouse may not be a bad idea.
Bad idea, too many stairs. We love being in our one floor house with our "aging bones".
sleepwell
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by sleepwell »

This is not a direct comment to your original post, but since you have children, I thought I would pass this along just because a few folks have suggested that you might wish to re-locate before retirement, while your children are still in school.

There was another thread a while back in which a number of people mentioned that they regretted moving their family to a new location when their kids were in high school. Also, some people stated that their college-age children felt upset when their parents moved while the kids were off at college. Apparently they felt no connection to the new home and didn't feel like they had a 'real home' to which they could return.

Just FWIW. Good luck when you make your move. (Or 'moves'. Who says you can't change your mind and move again if you want?)

Sleepwell
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LilyFleur
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by LilyFleur »

sport wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:15 pm
sk.dolcevita wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm For ageing bones, a townhouse may not be a bad idea.
Bad idea, too many stairs. We love being in our one floor house with our "aging bones".
I live in a one-story condo and you are right, I would not consider a two-story house or townhouse at this stage of life. I like that I don't have to supervise the gardeners, negotiate contracts and supervise the workers for the exterior maintenance, new roof, and fresh paint; hire and supervise the pool/jacuzzi guy; take bids and supervise resurfacing the asphalt; call for repairs on the security gate, etc. I've done all that when I was younger, including doing the gardening myself. Now that I have aging bones, I'm more than happy to let others do some of the heavy lifting. Of course, if I owned a single family home, I could hire all of that out, but I'd have to supervise it all. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove it. :mrgreen:
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LilyFleur
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by LilyFleur »

Firemenot wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:15 pm
tj wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:57 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:53 pm
Carousel wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:04 pm

Serious question. Which states have no bugs?
California.
+ 1. Where I live in California there is no need for screens. Have never been bit by a bug in my town. There are biting mosquitoes in the Sierras. I was in for a surprise my first trip to Yosemite.
Where in CA has no bugs?
First there are some bugs (e.g., spiders and ants), but no mosquitoes or biting flies — or at least not enough such that I’ve never been bit after 5 years spending lots of time outside in my neighborhood. Also it’s no problem leaving the walls to my living room wide open with the lights on in the evening or night. Worst case is maybe a single moth flies in. I live a few blocks from the ocean on the Central Coast.
In my old house only ten minutes from my current home, we would see cockroaches (not many, and only in the summer) spiders, and ants. I could get rid of them with bait.

Where I live now, near a river channel and a mile from the ocean in southern California, there are mosquitoes and house centipedes and spiders. The latter two eat other bugs that I dislike, so I'm OK with it. And we have lizards outside that also eat bugs. I wouldn't leave windows open without screens in the evening here. But there is no need for anything like a lanai.
marcopolo
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by marcopolo »

sleepwell wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:44 pm This is not a direct comment to your original post, but since you have children, I thought I would pass this along just because a few folks have suggested that you might wish to re-locate before retirement, while your children are still in school.

There was another thread a while back in which a number of people mentioned that they regretted moving their family to a new location when their kids were in high school. Also, some people stated that their college-age children felt upset when their parents moved while the kids were off at college. Apparently they felt no connection to the new home and didn't feel like they had a 'real home' to which they could return.

Just FWIW. Good luck when you make your move. (Or 'moves'. Who says you can't change your mind and move again if you want?)

Sleepwell
We certainly avoided moving while the kids were in high school.
But, we moved our younger son into his dorm, settled on the sale of our house and moved to a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific, in that order, withing the same week. Our son has survived. The travel to/from school got a little complicated due to Covid. But, he has loved coming to visit multiple times. The "real home" to which they can return to is where the family is, not a specific structure. And he did, for the better part of a year while doing school remotely. I am sure different families have different experiences.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
LifeIsShort
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by LifeIsShort »

Retirement is a state of mind, not a location, and I've ALWAYS enjoyed the journey more than the destination. Travel, stay active, and enjoy as much time as you can with your friends and family no matter the location...mosquitos, climate, and politics are all secondary. Good luck and enjoy the freedom from work and the lifetime of responsibilities you've worked so hard to unshackle from.
manatee2005
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by manatee2005 »

gowest wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:44 am Hi everyone,

I don't post very often, but I read these forums regularly (both the "investing" forum and this "not investing" forum). I've really come a long way in my understanding of retirement planning and, more importantly, financial independence. I have a question about retirement planning. I'd love to read your insight and experiences and stories.

DW and I are 46 and 44, and we have kids who are 14 and 12, and it seems clear that both are headed for eventual college (starting in 2025 and 2027). At that point, I expect our expenses will go way down. We have already saved for college, and we'll no longer be paying for their private school (K-12), and we'll no longer need or want our big house (which will be paid off next year), etc. And then soon enough, they'll be out of college and on their own (rather than returning to the nest, we hope!).

With our future (kid-free) reduced expenses in mind, we probably have enough $$ right now to consider ourselves financially independent, and especially so if the investment accounts rise in value. Regardless, I will keep working for a while--maybe until age 55, but perhaps not that long--which will truly let us solidify our FI position.

So DW and I are looking ahead and trying to think about what we're going to do. That has two core aspects: (1) Where are we going to live? (2) What are we going to do? The answer to the second question is relatively simpler for us, since we have hobbies and interests, and frankly we can do those most anywhere. So the real question is the first:

Where are we going to live?

How does one decide?

Right now we live in a MCOL city that has been great for my work and raising the kids, etc., but it's not going to be our retirement city. Part of us thinks: sell everything except the basics and then buy a gently used motor home in order to tour the nation for a few years, and then decide. Part of us thinks: downsize and move to the beach in a cute, walkable beach town. But maybe that'd be too small for us. Anyway...

Now it's story time! ... Tell me, please, how did you decide where to live for retirement? If I had a better handle on our plans, then I'd have something more specific to work towards, and I could plan (both mentally and financially). Maybe this post is just my musings, since the answer is such a personal decision. But I thought I'd post anyway and see where this goes.
You should live where you enjoy to live. You need to figure out for yourself what you enjoy. Beach, farmland, mountains, desert? Hot or cold?
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

gowest wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:44 am Hi everyone,

I don't post very often, but I read these forums regularly (both the "investing" forum and this "not investing" forum). I've really come a long way in my understanding of retirement planning and, more importantly, financial independence. I have a question about retirement planning. I'd love to read your insight and experiences and stories.

DW and I are 46 and 44, and we have kids who are 14 and 12, and it seems clear that both are headed for eventual college (starting in 2025 and 2027). At that point, I expect our expenses will go way down. We have already saved for college, and we'll no longer be paying for their private school (K-12), and we'll no longer need or want our big house (which will be paid off next year), etc. And then soon enough, they'll be out of college and on their own (rather than returning to the nest, we hope!).

With our future (kid-free) reduced expenses in mind, we probably have enough $$ right now to consider ourselves financially independent, and especially so if the investment accounts rise in value. Regardless, I will keep working for a while--maybe until age 55, but perhaps not that long--which will truly let us solidify our FI position.

So DW and I are looking ahead and trying to think about what we're going to do. That has two core aspects: (1) Where are we going to live? (2) What are we going to do? The answer to the second question is relatively simpler for us, since we have hobbies and interests, and frankly we can do those most anywhere. So the real question is the first:

Where are we going to live?

How does one decide?

Right now we live in a MCOL city that has been great for my work and raising the kids, etc., but it's not going to be our retirement city. Part of us thinks: sell everything except the basics and then buy a gently used motor home in order to tour the nation for a few years, and then decide. Part of us thinks: downsize and move to the beach in a cute, walkable beach town. But maybe that'd be too small for us. Anyway...

Now it's story time! ... Tell me, please, how did you decide where to live for retirement? If I had a better handle on our plans, then I'd have something more specific to work towards, and I could plan (both mentally and financially). Maybe this post is just my musings, since the answer is such a personal decision. But I thought I'd post anyway and see where this goes.
We live in a cute walkable beach town and we bought a gently used motorhome to tour the country for a couple of years, off and on, to see about finding a town we liked better than our own. We were unable to, so we sold our motorhome a couple of months ago.

We did see some really great places, but none were any better than where we are now. Everywhere you go is a compromise, as far as I’m concerned- if it’s not the weather it’s the traffic, or maybe the taxes aren’t as friendly as other places, or perhaps it’s too rural or a bit too urban. You might as well find a place that you’re happy and make it work as well as you’re able to. For us that turned out to be where we were all along. Do I wish we had mountains closer to home for example? Yes, but the more we’ve thought about it that’s just one more good reason to go on vacation, or maybe someday buy a second home.
3 Fund Portfolio. 70/30 AA. No mortgage. Simplicity is key.
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gowest
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by gowest »

LifeIsShort wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:23 pm Retirement is a state of mind, not a location, and I've ALWAYS enjoyed the journey more than the destination. Travel, stay active, and enjoy as much time as you can with your friends and family no matter the location...mosquitos, climate, and politics are all secondary. Good luck and enjoy the freedom from work and the lifetime of responsibilities you've worked so hard to unshackle from.
Thanks! Great approach!
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gowest
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by gowest »

sleepwell wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:44 pm This is not a direct comment to your original post, but since you have children, I thought I would pass this along just because a few folks have suggested that you might wish to re-locate before retirement, while your children are still in school.

There was another thread a while back in which a number of people mentioned that they regretted moving their family to a new location when their kids were in high school. Also, some people stated that their college-age children felt upset when their parents moved while the kids were off at college. Apparently they felt no connection to the new home and didn't feel like they had a 'real home' to which they could return.

Just FWIW. Good luck when you make your move. (Or 'moves'. Who says you can't change your mind and move again if you want?)

Sleepwell
Thank you. My parents moved (out of necessity) right when I had started high school, and I won’t repeat that experience for my kids absent some necessity.

Great point about college-age kids not having a connection to the new home if we moved while they’re in college. Thanks again for your comments.
snowman9000
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by snowman9000 »

We used an RV to get away in the winter for a few years, which gave us the chance to look for places to eventually buy a snowbird home. We bought in a 55 plus community. Those places are all about social life and connections. So you can have the best of both places for half a year apiece, if that works for you.
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Harry Livermore
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Harry Livermore »

gowest wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:28 am
sleepwell wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:44 pm
Also, some people stated that their college-age children felt upset when their parents moved while the kids were off at college. Apparently they felt no connection to the new home and didn't feel like they had a 'real home' to which they could return.

Sleepwell
Thank you. My parents moved (out of necessity) right when I had started high school, and I won’t repeat that experience for my kids absent some necessity.

Great point about college-age kids not having a connection to the new home if we moved while they’re in college. Thanks again for your comments.
My wife and I could probably retire now, and I definitely wish to do so within 5-7 years from now. Our desire to move is motivated by ever-increasing taxes in our HCOL area, coupled by worsening traffic and a general decrease in quality of life. Target destination is... well, we don't know. Somewhere quieter, with more civility and less traffic.
Our youngest son is going into his sophomore year in high school. Oldest son just finished college. Daughter in the middle is going in to her sophomore year in college. I ordered them by increasing level of independence. Daughter is a go-getter, oldest son may need help launching, and youngest son has some special needs that may influence our style and speed of retirement/ move.
I think they would all be put out if we did a sudden move, but that's precisely why we are thinking about the "where" aspect now. Someone mentioned upthread that it might be foolish to think about this too far in advance. Some people are planners... we certainly are. We have let the kids know that the house we are in now is not our "forever home". We moved once when they were younger, within the same town, within the same school district, with no drama. While I understand that their perspective is much more limited than mine, I have to ease them into the idea that the idea of "home" will evolve over time, and it's wherever their parents are, until they truly break away by starting their own families. That is one of several reasons why we are thinking about this now.
We also need to unwind our rental property (our former residence) and would rather do so in a financially advantageous way. Plan A goes something like this: at some point over the next couple of years, during a vacancy, do a cosmetic refresh and move in for 2 years why we do a gut renovation on our residence. After the "2 out of 5" requirement is satisfied, move back into the renovated (current) home and sell the rental, with the recent residency there helping take the sting out of taxes. We can then enjoy a few years of repair-free living while we wrap things up and transition to our new location. Plan B would be to sell it right now in this wildly overheated market and just eat the taxes (and maybe still come out ahead)
I think an example of what NOT to do is illustrated by my mother's path. My mom is currently rattling around in the same 2,000 sqft home I grew up in because, well, just because. My brother and I have run the numbers and it's actually affordable, at least on a par with renting or buying a condo in one of the nearby towns we live in. But she's only there, because, well, because she's there. There was no decision process, just the lack of inertia to try something new. I seriously hope to not lose that just yet. I'd like to start a new chapter with my wife, somewhere new, as painful as it might be to make new friends and to develop new habits and hobbies. If I am to stagnate I would rather have it happen when I'm 90, not 60. My mom is very active, with a good social network, not a shut-in, so it's doubly confusing why she never downsized. I guess she's just "comfy".
We have offered to both build in the ability for my mom to have her own space at our residence when we renovate, and also to include her joining us as a criteria for our retirement home search. She seems somewhat open. To be continued...
One last thought. I think if you live somewhere long enough you can see many, many changes in your community, and sometimes not for the better. We live in a very desirable suburb of New York City, and over the 27 years I have been here much has changed. Traffic has gotten worse, town government has grown larger and meant a serious increase in property taxes, and developers are a constant threat (by that I mean they are constantly pushing the envelope, proposing projects out of scale with the location, seeking variances in zoning, basically doing everything to maximize their profit with no regard for the actual citizens of the town) I have grown tired of going to late-night zoning meetings to argue the obvious, over and over again, to "defend" our town. In addition, many of the wonderful older residents have either died or moved on, and new residents seem to be oblivious that over-building will erase many of the qualities that drew them to the town in the first place. The refrain I hear most often is "Well, it's STILL better than __________ (insert name of the seriously overcrowded and over-taxed suburb they just moved from)"
More sadly (perhaps I am connecting dots that are not necessarily connected) there has been a general decrease in civility, with more car horns honking, fewer people smiling and saying hello when out walking, etc. It's still a lovely and charming town, and the school system remains a draw. But I have been here long enough to have witnessed the arc of change and am ready to move on.
Anyway, OP, thanks for starting this thread. I assume it will run its course, or perhaps run in circles and die, but it's been a thoughtful discourse thus far by the terrific BH community.
Cheers
stoptothink
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by stoptothink »

quantAndHold wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:36 pm
mkc wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:13 pm
carolinaman wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:27 am
Impromptu wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:43 pm For me the biggest factor will be proximity to family, children, and grandchildren. These are the reasons I will not retire in a foreign country, or move to a remote part of Alaska, to some beach or mountain cabin, or some ultra low cost of living midwest rural area, despite there being some appeal to all of those options. While travel isn't too hard these days compared to horse and buggy days, travel is still a hassle.
+1. I see a lot of retired people move near their children and grandchildren.
Some take it to the extreme. We know a couple who have moved (at last count) 7 times in 12 years following "the grandbabies" due to their children's relocations.
Has it never occurred to these people that the kids might have relocated 7 times in 12 years to get away from the helicopter grandparents?
My cousin moved to Texas earlier this year, hoping that WFH will be permanent. My uncle had given him the down payment for his first home and they decided to keep it as a rental. They had no downpayment for the second home so my uncle handed them a check again. Then when uncle mentioned they were considering also buying a home in Texas (my cousin has the only grandchild), he was told "it better not be anywhere close to us". A LOT more to the story, but none of it involves helicopter parents; if you ever want a story about the possible side effects of spoiling your kids, my cousin is it.
jebmke
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by jebmke »

LifeIsShort wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:23 pm Retirement is a state of mind, not a location, and I've ALWAYS enjoyed the journey more than the destination. Travel, stay active, and enjoy as much time as you can with your friends and family no matter the location...mosquitos, climate, and politics are all secondary. Good luck and enjoy the freedom from work and the lifetime of responsibilities you've worked so hard to unshackle from.
Indeed. I've moved probably 20 times as an adult, maybe more. I can't recall ever thinking badly of any of those places. Given the choice, I might not choose to go back due to cold weather but I wouldn't rule them out, either.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
sandan
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by sandan »

Harry Livermore wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:30 am Target destination is... well, we don't know. Somewhere quieter, with more civility and less traffic.
Ditto. I've found that recommendations from magazines and people online are useless for finding places as described but plenty exist.
2tall4economy
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by 2tall4economy »

marcopolo wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:07 pm Many places that are great for retirement are terrible places to raise kids. Poor schools being a big factor, among others.
Yes, this is exactly is my biggest problem.

I've been enjoying the thread and the responses as I'm thinking hard about this now too. I realize my situation is different than most which makes it even more challenging in some ways and also easier in some ways.

The biggest problem for me is I have young kids and need good schools, and I need that now while I'm still working, and by the time I retire one of my kids will be mid-high school, and I personally think it's a terrible thing to do to a kid to move them at that age. Sure, they'll survive but man...

and on top of that, I've spent the last 20 years moving ~15 times all over the globe. We have some friends we keep in touch with but we don't really have deep relationships where people come over to our house. And if I move again in ~2 to 4 years for another job I think that just resets the clock yet again.

Where I am right now there is plenty of snow (even though I'm often cold), I'm 3 hours away from my family (farther than I'd like, but closer than I've ever been), I'm in a left leaning state vs a right leaning state (which I'd prefer), and I'm an hour away from water because the communities on the water either have too long of a commute to work, poor schools, or an unstable government situation which makes a million dollar housing bet too much of a gamble for me.

So, I'm almost to the point of saying I'm going to stay here even though it doesn't really check any of my boxes... but I suppose that depends on if we ever manage to make some deep relationships (been here 2 years but COVID happened shortly after arriving so haven't really been able to meet anyone socially).

A bit sad I think overall given early retirement possibility and enough wealth to live comfortably anywhere... all dressed up and nowhere to go I guess... but also not sure what other choices make sense...
Last edited by 2tall4economy on Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
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gowest
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by gowest »

Harry Livermore wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:30 am
My wife and I could probably retire now, and I definitely wish to do so within 5-7 years from now. Our desire to move is motivated by ever-increasing taxes in our HCOL area, coupled by worsening traffic and a general decrease in quality of life. Target destination is... well, we don't know. Somewhere quieter, with more civility and less traffic.

...

Anyway, OP, thanks for starting this thread. I assume it will run its course, or perhaps run in circles and die, but it's been a thoughtful discourse thus far by the terrific BH community.
Cheers
Thanks for sharing your story. Very interesting! Best of luck to you.
EnjoyIt
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by EnjoyIt »

Harry Livermore wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:30 am
gowest wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:28 am
sleepwell wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:44 pm
Also, some people stated that their college-age children felt upset when their parents moved while the kids were off at college. Apparently they felt no connection to the new home and didn't feel like they had a 'real home' to which they could return.

Sleepwell
Thank you. My parents moved (out of necessity) right when I had started high school, and I won’t repeat that experience for my kids absent some necessity.

Great point about college-age kids not having a connection to the new home if we moved while they’re in college. Thanks again for your comments.
My wife and I could probably retire now, and I definitely wish to do so within 5-7 years from now. Our desire to move is motivated by ever-increasing taxes in our HCOL area, coupled by worsening traffic and a general decrease in quality of life. Target destination is... well, we don't know. Somewhere quieter, with more civility and less traffic.
Our youngest son is going into his sophomore year in high school. Oldest son just finished college. Daughter in the middle is going in to her sophomore year in college. I ordered them by increasing level of independence. Daughter is a go-getter, oldest son may need help launching, and youngest son has some special needs that may influence our style and speed of retirement/ move.
I think they would all be put out if we did a sudden move, but that's precisely why we are thinking about the "where" aspect now. Someone mentioned upthread that it might be foolish to think about this too far in advance. Some people are planners... we certainly are. We have let the kids know that the house we are in now is not our "forever home". We moved once when they were younger, within the same town, within the same school district, with no drama. While I understand that their perspective is much more limited than mine, I have to ease them into the idea that the idea of "home" will evolve over time, and it's wherever their parents are, until they truly break away by starting their own families. That is one of several reasons why we are thinking about this now.
We also need to unwind our rental property (our former residence) and would rather do so in a financially advantageous way. Plan A goes something like this: at some point over the next couple of years, during a vacancy, do a cosmetic refresh and move in for 2 years why we do a gut renovation on our residence. After the "2 out of 5" requirement is satisfied, move back into the renovated (current) home and sell the rental, with the recent residency there helping take the sting out of taxes. We can then enjoy a few years of repair-free living while we wrap things up and transition to our new location. Plan B would be to sell it right now in this wildly overheated market and just eat the taxes (and maybe still come out ahead)
I think an example of what NOT to do is illustrated by my mother's path. My mom is currently rattling around in the same 2,000 sqft home I grew up in because, well, just because. My brother and I have run the numbers and it's actually affordable, at least on a par with renting or buying a condo in one of the nearby towns we live in. But she's only there, because, well, because she's there. There was no decision process, just the lack of inertia to try something new. I seriously hope to not lose that just yet. I'd like to start a new chapter with my wife, somewhere new, as painful as it might be to make new friends and to develop new habits and hobbies. If I am to stagnate I would rather have it happen when I'm 90, not 60. My mom is very active, with a good social network, not a shut-in, so it's doubly confusing why she never downsized. I guess she's just "comfy".
We have offered to both build in the ability for my mom to have her own space at our residence when we renovate, and also to include her joining us as a criteria for our retirement home search. She seems somewhat open. To be continued...
One last thought. I think if you live somewhere long enough you can see many, many changes in your community, and sometimes not for the better. We live in a very desirable suburb of New York City, and over the 27 years I have been here much has changed. Traffic has gotten worse, town government has grown larger and meant a serious increase in property taxes, and developers are a constant threat (by that I mean they are constantly pushing the envelope, proposing projects out of scale with the location, seeking variances in zoning, basically doing everything to maximize their profit with no regard for the actual citizens of the town) I have grown tired of going to late-night zoning meetings to argue the obvious, over and over again, to "defend" our town. In addition, many of the wonderful older residents have either died or moved on, and new residents seem to be oblivious that over-building will erase many of the qualities that drew them to the town in the first place. The refrain I hear most often is "Well, it's STILL better than __________ (insert name of the seriously overcrowded and over-taxed suburb they just moved from)"
More sadly (perhaps I am connecting dots that are not necessarily connected) there has been a general decrease in civility, with more car horns honking, fewer people smiling and saying hello when out walking, etc. It's still a lovely and charming town, and the school system remains a draw. But I have been here long enough to have witnessed the arc of change and am ready to move on.
Anyway, OP, thanks for starting this thread. I assume it will run its course, or perhaps run in circles and die, but it's been a thoughtful discourse thus far by the terrific BH community.
Cheers
Thank you for sharing.

We moved to the area we are in for one purpose and that was to make money. Once we got here, we found out that this area is actually very nice. The people are wonderful, the politics are inline with our views, and there is plenty to do so we decided to stay much longer than initially intended. But, over time, our views on life and the world have changed. We want more nature and less stress in our lives. Plus as you put it, our area has changed. The traffic has gotten worse, builders are over developing the area, and it is becoming more and more concrete covered. A few years ago we decided that we will be moving and began our research. The goal was to make just a bit more cash while semi-retiring at our new location. We traveled the country doing 5-10 day vacation at all our prospective destinations until we finally found one. We will be moving there within the next 6-8 months and are excited to start the new chapter in our lives. Our kids are still young enough that it won't make too much difference to them...We hope. Our game plan is to stay in this new area until our kids are off to college and then re-evalaute for our next destination.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Firemenot
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Firemenot »

2tall4economy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:28 am
marcopolo wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:07 pm Many places that are great for retirement are terrible places to raise kids. Poor schools being a big factor, among others.
Yes, this is exactly is my biggest problem.

I've been enjoying the thread and the responses as I'm thinking hard about this now too. I realize my situation is different than most which makes it even more challenging in some ways and also easier in some ways.

The biggest problem for me is I have young kids and need good schools, and I need that now while I'm still working, and by the time I retire one of my kids will be mid-high school, and I personally think it's a terrible thing to do to a kid to move them at that age. Sure, they'll survive but man...

and on top of that, I've spent the last 20 years moving ~15 times all over the globe. We have some friends we keep in touch with but we don't really have deep relationships where people come over to our house. And if I move again in ~2 to 4 years for another job I think that just resets the clock yet again.

Where I am right now there is plenty of snow (even though I'm often cold), I'm 3 hours away from my family (farther than I'd like, but closer than I've ever been), I'm in a left leaning state vs a right leaning state (which I'd prefer), and I'm an hour away from water because the communities on the water either have too long of a commute to work, poor schools, or an unstable government situation which makes a million dollar housing bet too much of a gamble for me.

So, I'm almost to the point of saying I'm going to stay here even though it doesn't really check any of my boxes... but I suppose that depends on if we ever manage to make some deep relationships (been here 2 years but COVID happened shortly after arriving so haven't really been able to meet anyone socially).

A bit sad I think overall given early retirement possibility and enough wealth to live comfortably anywhere... all dressed up and nowhere to go I guess... but also not sure what other choices make sense...
Based on what you just said I’d move now and try a new place. Why stay somewhere that’s so BLAH in your eyes? Labor market is super strong. Take a risk! And I personally wouldn’t put too much in the politics thing. It’s not like you have much say anyhow, and increasingly national politics dictate most everything anyhow.

I took a risk and moved half a continent away in similar circumstances. Has worked out great.
kleiner
Posts: 81
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by kleiner »

I am retired and my wife is still working so no moves possible in the near term in any case. Our financial situation is such that we can afford to live anywhere we want. However, we have decided that we are just staying put right here in NJ even when she retires. We like our neighborhood, we like our neighbors, we like being close to New York City, big airports and excellent medical care.
jerrysmith
Posts: 53
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by jerrysmith »

I'm loving this thread, so much good information. We're of similar ages and zero chance I'm remaining in this state or the south in general. So we're looking all over and planning visits to see what we like and so forth. We're even considering overseas. Good luck!
2tall4economy
Posts: 671
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by 2tall4economy »

Firemenot wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:21 am
2tall4economy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:28 am
marcopolo wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:07 pm Many places that are great for retirement are terrible places to raise kids. Poor schools being a big factor, among others.
Yes, this is exactly is my biggest problem.

I've been enjoying the thread and the responses as I'm thinking hard about this now too. I realize my situation is different than most which makes it even more challenging in some ways and also easier in some ways.

The biggest problem for me is I have young kids and need good schools, and I need that now while I'm still working, and by the time I retire one of my kids will be mid-high school, and I personally think it's a terrible thing to do to a kid to move them at that age. Sure, they'll survive but man...

and on top of that, I've spent the last 20 years moving ~15 times all over the globe. We have some friends we keep in touch with but we don't really have deep relationships where people come over to our house. And if I move again in ~2 to 4 years for another job I think that just resets the clock yet again.

Where I am right now there is plenty of snow (even though I'm often cold), I'm 3 hours away from my family (farther than I'd like, but closer than I've ever been), I'm in a left leaning state vs a right leaning state (which I'd prefer), and I'm an hour away from water because the communities on the water either have too long of a commute to work, poor schools, or an unstable government situation which makes a million dollar housing bet too much of a gamble for me.

So, I'm almost to the point of saying I'm going to stay here even though it doesn't really check any of my boxes... but I suppose that depends on if we ever manage to make some deep relationships (been here 2 years but COVID happened shortly after arriving so haven't really been able to meet anyone socially).

A bit sad I think overall given early retirement possibility and enough wealth to live comfortably anywhere... all dressed up and nowhere to go I guess... but also not sure what other choices make sense...
Based on what you just said I’d move now and try a new place. Why stay somewhere that’s so BLAH in your eyes? Labor market is super strong. Take a risk! And I personally wouldn’t put too much in the politics thing. It’s not like you have much say anyhow, and increasingly national politics dictate most everything anyhow.

I took a risk and moved half a continent away in similar circumstances. Has worked out great.
I'd love to; the challenge I have is that I'm fairly senior in a mega corp. There are only ~1,500 jobs in the US that would match my skillset and compensation requirements, and most people in those jobs stay in them for 5+ years and typically retire from them so they aren't often open. Golden handcuffs of a sort... moving without a job lined up means delaying retirement.

Even with the exponential job demand that started back in Feb/Mar, I've danced with a lot of people but I haven't kissed any. There was a potential role in Arizona which would have been awesome, but that dried up too. Hope is not a strategy, but it's all I've got at the moment. 1st world problem for sure.

While I totally get that political climate shouldn't matter, in my particular case one of my favorite hobbies is a political target (won't say more than that), which is of course a detriment to enjoying retirement activities.
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
Firemenot
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Firemenot »

2tall4economy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:16 pm
Firemenot wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:21 am
2tall4economy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:28 am
marcopolo wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:07 pm Many places that are great for retirement are terrible places to raise kids. Poor schools being a big factor, among others.
Yes, this is exactly is my biggest problem.

I've been enjoying the thread and the responses as I'm thinking hard about this now too. I realize my situation is different than most which makes it even more challenging in some ways and also easier in some ways.

The biggest problem for me is I have young kids and need good schools, and I need that now while I'm still working, and by the time I retire one of my kids will be mid-high school, and I personally think it's a terrible thing to do to a kid to move them at that age. Sure, they'll survive but man...

and on top of that, I've spent the last 20 years moving ~15 times all over the globe. We have some friends we keep in touch with but we don't really have deep relationships where people come over to our house. And if I move again in ~2 to 4 years for another job I think that just resets the clock yet again.

Where I am right now there is plenty of snow (even though I'm often cold), I'm 3 hours away from my family (farther than I'd like, but closer than I've ever been), I'm in a left leaning state vs a right leaning state (which I'd prefer), and I'm an hour away from water because the communities on the water either have too long of a commute to work, poor schools, or an unstable government situation which makes a million dollar housing bet too much of a gamble for me.

So, I'm almost to the point of saying I'm going to stay here even though it doesn't really check any of my boxes... but I suppose that depends on if we ever manage to make some deep relationships (been here 2 years but COVID happened shortly after arriving so haven't really been able to meet anyone socially).

A bit sad I think overall given early retirement possibility and enough wealth to live comfortably anywhere... all dressed up and nowhere to go I guess... but also not sure what other choices make sense...
Based on what you just said I’d move now and try a new place. Why stay somewhere that’s so BLAH in your eyes? Labor market is super strong. Take a risk! And I personally wouldn’t put too much in the politics thing. It’s not like you have much say anyhow, and increasingly national politics dictate most everything anyhow.

I took a risk and moved half a continent away in similar circumstances. Has worked out great.
I'd love to; the challenge I have is that I'm fairly senior in a mega corp. There are only ~1,500 jobs in the US that would match my skillset and compensation requirements, and most people in those jobs stay in them for 5+ years and typically retire from them so they aren't often open. Golden handcuffs of a sort... moving without a job lined up means delaying retirement.

Even with the exponential job demand that started back in Feb/Mar, I've danced with a lot of people but I haven't kissed any. There was a potential role in Arizona which would have been awesome, but that dried up too. Hope is not a strategy, but it's all I've got at the moment. 1st world problem for sure.

While I totally get that political climate shouldn't matter, in my particular case one of my favorite hobbies is a political target (won't say more than that), which is of course a detriment to enjoying retirement activities.
I’m in a similar position. And with golden handcuffs. The power of being willing to walk can get you things you wouldn’t have thought possible if a high performer. I’ve been remote 5 for years in a type of position, and within a company, generally hostile to remote work.
FandangoDave5010
Posts: 122
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by FandangoDave5010 »

Just before retirement at 65, my wife and I decided to build a house in the Reno/Lake Tahoe area. It met our criteria of: 1) airport with good connections (i.e. non-stop to NYC, Atlanta for trips to Europe, Caribbean), 2) culture/continuing education (restaurants, entertainment...casinos, university), 3) extensive medical facilities, 4) Good city management and law enforcement. There are also low property taxes, moderate cost of living and no state income tax. (Housing prices now, however, are higher than they were 20 years ago due to the influx from the San Francisco Bay Area.)

We lived in buggy New Jersey without AC near the Great Swamps for 35 years and hated the humid summers...and mosquitoes. Our retirement house is at 7000 feet elevation, beyond the reach of bugs and most insects. The dry desert air is very pleasant with the mountain breeze in the afternoon and evening. And yes, we also put in central AC to make old age even more enjoyable.

We can get to downtown Reno in 30 minutes or 50 minutes to Lake Tahoe. The streets are easy to navigate downtown with its grid system. The airport is downtown, next to two interstate highways that keep traffic flowing. As DW would say, "We could've picked a worst place to retire."
toomanysidehustles
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:09 am

Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by toomanysidehustles »

FandangoDave5010 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:47 am

We lived in buggy New Jersey without AC near the Great Swamps for 35 years and hated the humid summers...and mosquitoes. Our retirement house is at 7000 feet elevation, beyond the reach of bugs and most insects. The dry desert air is very pleasant with the mountain breeze in the afternoon and evening. And yes, we also put in central AC to make old age even more enjoyable.
Sounds like you were close to Basking Ridge, NJ where I grew up as a kid. I made the move out west to Fort Collins, CO at the age of 24 and have never looked back. We own a few businesses here, my kids are here so this place is likely retirement home base for us. I say home base because I DO see myself either being in the desert (Tucson area) or Costa Rica to break up the winters. While mild, they are now starting to annoy me come late February/early March and I'm 46. Likely worse when I am 65!

My parents retired to Charleston, SC and we are about to visit for a week. Love the food and local culture, LOATHE the oppressive heat and humidity.
fposte
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by fposte »

Harry Livermore wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:30 am I think an example of what NOT to do is illustrated by my mother's path. My mom is currently rattling around in the same 2,000 sqft home I grew up in because, well, just because. My brother and I have run the numbers and it's actually affordable, at least on a par with renting or buying a condo in one of the nearby towns we live in. But she's only there, because, well, because she's there. There was no decision process, just the lack of inertia to try something new.
This doesn't seem unreasonable to me, though, just a different path from yours. She's lived there for a long time, she doubtless has plenty of ties to the community, her house is affordable, and it's not that big in American terms. A lot of people would be delighted with that retirement.
quantAndHold
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by quantAndHold »

Harry Livermore wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:30 am I think an example of what NOT to do is illustrated by my mother's path. My mom is currently rattling around in the same 2,000 sqft home I grew up in because, well, just because. My brother and I have run the numbers and it's actually affordable, at least on a par with renting or buying a condo in one of the nearby towns we live in. But she's only there, because, well, because she's there. There was no decision process, just the lack of inertia to try something new.
That sounds like us. We live in the house we raised our kids in. Yes, it’s bigger than we currently need. We can easily afford it. We have the same basic social circle we’ve had for decades. There are activities, medical care, and both the house and the location it’s in are fine for aging in place.

There’s no rule that says that just because the kids move out, we have to too. We like where we are.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
jharkin
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Location: Boston suburbs

Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by jharkin »

gowest wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:44 am
Now it's story time! ... Tell me, please, how did you decide where to live for retirement? If I had a better handle on our plans, then I'd have something more specific to work towards, and I could plan (both mentally and financially). Maybe this post is just my musings, since the answer is such a personal decision. But I thought I'd post anyway and see where this goes.
We are not there yet (~10yr to go give or take), but for us the #1 consideration is being near our network of family and long term friendships. That will likely keep us in the Northeast for life. We sometimes toy with moving to a coastal town in Maine or buying a farm in Vermont... but honestly staying near Boston has some big benefits in terms of cultural life, being near high quality healthcare as we age and tax benefits (DW will have a tax free state pension if we stay).

I guess if one is a life long nomad they can live anywhere but I think for a lot of people family ties are a top consideration.
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Harry Livermore
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Harry Livermore »

fposte wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:02 am
This doesn't seem unreasonable to me, though, just a different path from yours. She's lived there for a long time, she doubtless has plenty of ties to the community, her house is affordable, and it's not that big in American terms. A lot of people would be delighted with that retirement.
quantAndHold wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:32 am
That sounds like us. We live in the house we raised our kids in. Yes, it’s bigger than we currently need. We can easily afford it. We have the same basic social circle we’ve had for decades. There are activities, medical care, and both the house and the location it’s in are fine for aging in place.

There’s no rule that says that just because the kids move out, we have to too. We like where we are.
Well spoken on both your parts. And she is seemingly happy where she is.
I just meant that her path is not the one I wish to walk.
In her defense, my dad died suddenly before they came to any conclusions about what to do in retirement, and I think she's just been coasting. We are all happy to support her by helping around her house and offering advice.
Cheers
Barefootgirl
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by Barefootgirl »


We can get to downtown Reno in 30 minutes or 50 minutes to Lake Tahoe.


Sounds like a great location. I've only been to that part of the country a few times, so I'm wondering - are there 55+ communities in that part of US (please excuse me if this sounds like an ignorant question) and secondly, one always hears about water shortages in the western US (at least in the LV area)....would Reno be impacted as well?
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.
FandangoDave5010
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by FandangoDave5010 »

To Barefoot Girl,
There are numerous 55+ communities on the eastern slope of Lake Tahoe in Nevada starting in the north with Sparks, Reno and then Carson City, Minden and Gardnerville. The area gets its water from Lake Tahoe and Sierra snow via rivers such as Truckee, Carson and Walker and ground water seeping underground from the mountains at a 3000 feet higher elevation. If there is ever a water shortage, there can be reduction in water allocated for hay grown in the Great Basin Desert for cattle.

You will only run into a water problem if you buy property for a house in an adjacent desert county and have to drill for a well. The drillers hit water on my 12 acre property 100 feet from the house. For comparison, our well in Northern NJ went down 700 feet and became a lightning rod and was destroyed twice. Here, with the help of a water witcher, the well is only 70 feet deep with a generous flow.

Reno has become a nice place to live with a midtown that will knock your socks off. It has become the eastern corner of the tech triangle starting at San Francisco and San Jose stretching through Sacramento to Reno. And NO, it is not Las Vegas or Los Angeles. And can you believe an airport located in midtown opposite Costco....

Fandango Dave
hoops777
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by hoops777 »

Bogle7 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:10 pm
Carousel wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:04 pmSerious question. Which states have no bugs?
The dryer parts of:
Colorado
New Mexico
Idaho
Utah
Arizona
Nevada
Those black widows and scorpions I saw in Az were real. :happy
Every state has bugs but some are much more manageable. For example, eliminate states that you need a screened in porch or pool.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
quantAndHold
Posts: 6027
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by quantAndHold »

FandangoDave5010 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:23 pm To Barefoot Girl,
There are numerous 55+ communities on the eastern slope of Lake Tahoe in Nevada starting in the north with Sparks, Reno and then Carson City, Minden and Gardnerville. The area gets its water from Lake Tahoe and Sierra snow via rivers such as Truckee, Carson and Walker and ground water seeping underground from the mountains at a 3000 feet higher elevation. If there is ever a water shortage, there can be reduction in water allocated for hay grown in the Great Basin Desert for cattle.

You will only run into a water problem if you buy property for a house in an adjacent desert county and have to drill for a well. The drillers hit water on my 12 acre property 100 feet from the house. For comparison, our well in Northern NJ went down 700 feet and became a lightning rod and was destroyed twice. Here, with the help of a water witcher, the well is only 70 feet deep with a generous flow.

Reno has become a nice place to live with a midtown that will knock your socks off. It has become the eastern corner of the tech triangle starting at San Francisco and San Jose stretching through Sacramento to Reno. And NO, it is not Las Vegas or Los Angeles. And can you believe an airport located in midtown opposite Costco....

Fandango Dave
We came through Reno on our last trip. I hadn't been there since I was maybe 10 years old. I was pleasantly surprised. There was indeed a nice midtown, with some very good restaurants. I came away thinking it would be very livable there.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
hoops777
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by hoops777 »

The big problem is how quickly the world and areas are changing.
We live in the Bay Area and never worried or thought about wildfires until recently. Even if you are in a location free from a wildfire you still get the pollution now.
Portland 117 last week !
Droughts everywhere.
So pick your ideal place and it might not be so in 5 years.
There is no perfect place or place that you can safely predict the future.
Maybe the greatest benefit of having money is the flexibility it provides, so be flexible.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
hoops777
Posts: 3558
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by hoops777 »

hoops777 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:16 pm The big problem is how quickly the world and areas are changing.
We live in the Bay Area and never worried or thought about wildfires until recently. Even if you are in a location free from a wildfire you still get the pollution now. We live next to a park and could not even go out and walk for about a month last year because of the air quality.

Portland Oregon 117 last week !

Droughts everywhere.

So pick your ideal place and it might not be so in 5 years.
There is no perfect place or place that you can safely predict the future.
Maybe the greatest benefit of having money is the flexibility it provides, so be flexible.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
User avatar
22twain
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Re: How do we decide where to live for our retirement?

Post by 22twain »

hoops777 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:16 pm TEven if you are in a location free from a wildfire you still get the pollution now.
Here in SC we're getting haze from the wildfires out west. :annoyed
It's "Roth", not "ROTH". Senator William Roth was a person, not an acronym.
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