Working after Financial Independence

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Topic Author
KlangFool
Posts: 21537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool »

gips wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:22 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 am Folks,

After 1+ year of unemployment, someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse. So, I am back to work.

My question to the forum is this:

A) If you are Financially Independence (FI), what makes you go back to work?

B) After (A), what makes you retire eventually?

In my case,

1) Interesting work.

2) The new job's compensation is 40% higher.

3) Better work life balance

A) Work from home

B) Occasional 10 to 15 minutes commute to office.

4) Less stressful and slower pace environment.

KlangFool
congrats. i went back to work because:
- my mind had lost some sharpness and i found that alarming
- i set the terms on amount of time per week to 2-3 days
- ability to work remotely
- early career i was a deep technologist and loved it, mid and late career moved to mgmt to make more $, wanted to get back to pure play technology
- leading edge tech challenges
- great pay

after a couple of years, i stopped working this month because:
- impatient with clients making bad decisions
- impatient with poor project and engagement mgrs
- there is stress and i generally feel better without it
- basically i asked myself why i was putting up with stupid behavior and stress when i am fi

good luck to you!
Thank you for your post!!

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
GoldenFinch
Posts: 2408
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by GoldenFinch »

I am very happy for you KlangFool! :beer I always enjoy your posts and perspective, so thank you for that! Please keep it coming! :happy

I am not working, but frequently think about getting a part time job. It would mainly be just to be productive and social and it would not be in my former profession because that would be very isolating and hard to get back into at this point. I am 54 and often feel like I might be missing out on some things because I don’t work.
Colorado13
Posts: 1263
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:58 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by Colorado13 »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:45 pm
acanthurus wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:43 pmI was continuing to lose weight after going back to work up until COVID. The isolation of living alone and going to work everyday alone (coworkers almost entirely WFH) and being a lead at the same time brought back some bad old habits. I'm back to losing again now that I'm in a better place stress wise. I made friends with the security guards and I did take in a stray cat during the pandemic but she is kind of a punk. A sweet punk but still a punk.
That's good.

I learned from personal experience that blaming work for weight/health issues is just an excuse. I found that if we want to badly enough, we find a way to do the things that are important to us (exercise, weight control) without regard to our working/not-working status.

That may be true in more normal times but this pandemic has caused severe isolation for many people. I think telling people to suck it up (in these not quite normal times) may be a bit harsh. Not everyone loves work from home... Many of my colleagues are screaming to get back to the office while others are not. So it's not a one size fits all preference.

Hopefully the return to good habits is ongoing. Best wishes to both of you.
Nathan Drake
Posts: 1477
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by Nathan Drake »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:45 pm
acanthurus wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:43 pmI was continuing to lose weight after going back to work up until COVID. The isolation of living alone and going to work everyday alone (coworkers almost entirely WFH) and being a lead at the same time brought back some bad old habits. I'm back to losing again now that I'm in a better place stress wise. I made friends with the security guards and I did take in a stray cat during the pandemic but she is kind of a punk. A sweet punk but still a punk.
That's good.

I learned from personal experience that blaming work for weight/health issues is just an excuse. I found that if we want to badly enough, we find a way to do the things that are important to us (exercise, weight control) without regard to our working/not-working status.
I’m not sure if this is true. Some jobs require sitting or standing in place for long periods of time.

That sort of inactivity cannot be made up with exercise

Yes, a healthy weight can be maintained through diet, but that’s a separate issue from health issues stemming from prolonged inactivity
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 8659
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by JoeRetire »

Colorado13 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:32 am
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:45 pm
acanthurus wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:43 pmI was continuing to lose weight after going back to work up until COVID. The isolation of living alone and going to work everyday alone (coworkers almost entirely WFH) and being a lead at the same time brought back some bad old habits. I'm back to losing again now that I'm in a better place stress wise. I made friends with the security guards and I did take in a stray cat during the pandemic but she is kind of a punk. A sweet punk but still a punk.
That's good.

I learned from personal experience that blaming work for weight/health issues is just an excuse. I found that if we want to badly enough, we find a way to do the things that are important to us (exercise, weight control) without regard to our working/not-working status.

That may be true in more normal times but this pandemic has caused severe isolation for many people. I think telling people to suck it up (in these not quite normal times) may be a bit harsh. Not everyone loves work from home... Many of my colleagues are screaming to get back to the office while others are not. So it's not a one size fits all preference.
You don't have to love working from home to decide that weight/health is a priority.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 8659
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by JoeRetire »

Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:24 am
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:45 pm
acanthurus wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:43 pmI was continuing to lose weight after going back to work up until COVID. The isolation of living alone and going to work everyday alone (coworkers almost entirely WFH) and being a lead at the same time brought back some bad old habits. I'm back to losing again now that I'm in a better place stress wise. I made friends with the security guards and I did take in a stray cat during the pandemic but she is kind of a punk. A sweet punk but still a punk.
That's good.

I learned from personal experience that blaming work for weight/health issues is just an excuse. I found that if we want to badly enough, we find a way to do the things that are important to us (exercise, weight control) without regard to our working/not-working status.
I’m not sure if this is true. Some jobs require sitting or standing in place for long periods of time.

That sort of inactivity cannot be made up with exercise
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
avginvestor
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:57 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by avginvestor »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:07 am DW won't let me retire.

First it was "The cost of college!!!"

Now it's "The cost of health insurance!!!"

We currently have 52 times spending in investment accounts, paid house, 4 paid cars and over $100k in checking/savings.

On the bright side, with all this money, I plan to order a Lotus Emira.
How much would health insurance cost if you were to pay out of pocket?
dboeger1
Posts: 639
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by dboeger1 »

Congrats on the new opportunity, Klang. I'm young and far from FI and traditional retirement age, so a lot can and will change, but a huge motivation for me to reach FI is to allow me to pursue entrepreneurial endeavors related to a passion project of mine without being pressured to meet financial deadlines. As such, I would be unlikely to return to work unless the work was directly related to my passion project in some way. The passion project is only tangentially related to my current career path, and I could certainly pivot my career to be more aligned with the passion project before FI, but that would likely come at the cost of less pay and job stability for more hours, which feels suboptimal. So for the time being, my career is mostly a means to an end, the end goal being pursuing the passion project full time. It would take a real change of heart or shift in priorities for me to turn my back on that. It certainly could happen once kids are in the picture, but we'll see.

The other reason I would go back to work is for specific one-time luxury spending. My wife and I live quite frugally for our incomes, and most of our financial planning is around reaching a base level of FI that takes care of our needs. However, there are certainly luxuries we would enjoy but have yet to plan for. I suspect when we do hit a more concrete level of FI adjusted for children, I'll probably extend my career a bit longer just to knock out some big items. I could see doing the "one more year" thing for a few years to buy new cars, finish larger home improvement projects, and set aside some extra vacation funds or whatever.

I'm not sure if this technically disqualifies one from being FI or not, but a corner case would be needing a quality health insurance plan for medical expenses. It's unfortunate that the US healthcare system is so unequal, complicated, and tied to full-time employment, but it is what it is. I consider health insurance to be somewhat tangential to FI just because of the cliff-like nature of it where huge expenses can be largely eliminated by a small change in circumstances, such as getting a job just for the coverage or getting coverage through a spouse's employer.
EddyB
Posts: 1614
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by EddyB »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:14 pm
Colorado13 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:32 am
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:45 pm
acanthurus wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:43 pmI was continuing to lose weight after going back to work up until COVID. The isolation of living alone and going to work everyday alone (coworkers almost entirely WFH) and being a lead at the same time brought back some bad old habits. I'm back to losing again now that I'm in a better place stress wise. I made friends with the security guards and I did take in a stray cat during the pandemic but she is kind of a punk. A sweet punk but still a punk.
That's good.

I learned from personal experience that blaming work for weight/health issues is just an excuse. I found that if we want to badly enough, we find a way to do the things that are important to us (exercise, weight control) without regard to our working/not-working status.

That may be true in more normal times but this pandemic has caused severe isolation for many people. I think telling people to suck it up (in these not quite normal times) may be a bit harsh. Not everyone loves work from home... Many of my colleagues are screaming to get back to the office while others are not. So it's not a one size fits all preference.
You don't have to love working from home to decide that weight/health is a priority.
I had worked from home for a decade before the pandemic (but have liked it less since everyone else started doing it!), and was committed to a sport that kept me in very good shape, with some more casual pursuit of another sport that made for a nice complement. I found that adding an unexpected and higher priority—namely, homeschooling and then facilitating “distance learning” for my children—had the biggest impact on exercise. I also had many clients who shifted their days forward, or later, cutting into the shoulder times when I traditionally exercised (I also had some clients, especially from April to December, who decided that if they couldn’t go out on the weekend, they’d just treat it like a work day to the extent it suited them). While I did eventually claw back about 40% of my prior exercise schedule, it came at the expense of sleep, and I’m not really sure whether that was a net benefit. I am looking forward to a return to normal on the school front, but in my industry, the scheduling changes aren’t going away any time soon.
Topic Author
KlangFool
Posts: 21537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool »

dboeger1 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:01 pm Congrats on the new opportunity, Klang. I'm young and far from FI and traditional retirement age, so a lot can and will change, but a huge motivation for me to reach FI is to allow me to pursue entrepreneurial endeavors related to a passion project of mine without being pressured to meet financial deadlines. As such, I would be unlikely to return to work unless the work was directly related to my passion project in some way. The passion project is only tangentially related to my current career path, and I could certainly pivot my career to be more aligned with the passion project before FI, but that would likely come at the cost of less pay and job stability for more hours, which feels suboptimal. So for the time being, my career is mostly a means to an end, the end goal being pursuing the passion project full time. It would take a real change of heart or shift in priorities for me to turn my back on that. It certainly could happen once kids are in the picture, but we'll see.

The other reason I would go back to work is for specific one-time luxury spending. My wife and I live quite frugally for our incomes, and most of our financial planning is around reaching a base level of FI that takes care of our needs. However, there are certainly luxuries we would enjoy but have yet to plan for. I suspect when we do hit a more concrete level of FI adjusted for children, I'll probably extend my career a bit longer just to knock out some big items. I could see doing the "one more year" thing for a few years to buy new cars, finish larger home improvement projects, and set aside some extra vacation funds or whatever.

I'm not sure if this technically disqualifies one from being FI or not, but a corner case would be needing a quality health insurance plan for medical expenses. It's unfortunate that the US healthcare system is so unequal, complicated, and tied to full-time employment, but it is what it is. I consider health insurance to be somewhat tangential to FI just because of the cliff-like nature of it where huge expenses can be largely eliminated by a small change in circumstances, such as getting a job just for the coverage or getting coverage through a spouse's employer.
Thank you for your post!

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Exchme
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:00 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by Exchme »

Congratulations!

From reading quite a few of your previous posts, you were FI, but I think you had unfinished business and wanted to go out on your own terms at the time of your choosing. I believe the new challenge will be very healthy for you.

I was pushed out of the position I wanted but allowed to stay with the company which was really awkward suddenly taking direction from someone in the position I used to have. I was FI but my dad was in Alzheimer's care for a decade so I had fears that the same could happen to me and I wanted to leave more to the kids. They are wonderful people and very hard working and thrifty, but have careers with meh income, so my thought was that a couple more years of working could really boost our ability to help them. It was a grim couple years though as it was never going to be on my own terms.

Enjoy the new challenge!
hi_there
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by hi_there »

I don't understand this concept of "financial independence" as it relates to just not needing more money. It's a false mental wall, as financial "need" is driven by perspective and actual financial situation. If the same "financially independent" person had 10x their net worth, and you ask them how much money they would need to spend every year, their answer will probably be different from if they had less money.

OP has an opportunity to increase his financial capital at the expense of time, at a price that makes sense for him. He can increase his living standard, add more safety to his portfolio, donate to charity, or whatever he wants with this extra money. The point is, there is still utility to be gained, and wants/needs are categories that overlap. The previous financial situation is a slope, not an on/off toggle that says whether you are independent.
an_asker
Posts: 3314
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by an_asker »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 am Folks,

After 1+ year of unemployment, someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse. So, I am back to work.

My question to the forum is this:

A) If you are Financially Independence (FI), what makes you go back to work?

B) After (A), what makes you retire eventually?

In my case,

1) Interesting work.

2) The new job's compensation is 40% higher.

3) Better work life balance

A) Work from home

B) Occasional 10 to 15 minutes commute to office.

4) Less stressful and slower pace environment.

KlangFool
I missed this. Congratulations! :-)
Topic Author
KlangFool
Posts: 21537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool »

an_asker wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:35 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 am Folks,

After 1+ year of unemployment, someone made me an offer that I cannot refuse. So, I am back to work.

My question to the forum is this:

A) If you are Financially Independence (FI), what makes you go back to work?

B) After (A), what makes you retire eventually?

In my case,

1) Interesting work.

2) The new job's compensation is 40% higher.

3) Better work life balance

A) Work from home

B) Occasional 10 to 15 minutes commute to office.

4) Less stressful and slower pace environment.

KlangFool
I missed this. Congratulations! :-)
Thanks.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Topic Author
KlangFool
Posts: 21537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool »

Exchme wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:14 pm Congratulations!

From reading quite a few of your previous posts, you were FI, but I think you had unfinished business and wanted to go out on your own terms at the time of your choosing. I believe the new challenge will be very healthy for you.

I was pushed out of the position I wanted but allowed to stay with the company which was really awkward suddenly taking direction from someone in the position I used to have. I was FI but my dad was in Alzheimer's care for a decade so I had fears that the same could happen to me and I wanted to leave more to the kids. They are wonderful people and very hard working and thrifty, but have careers with meh income, so my thought was that a couple more years of working could really boost our ability to help them. It was a grim couple years though as it was never going to be on my own terms.

Enjoy the new challenge!
Thanks.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
MikeG62
Posts: 3756
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by MikeG62 »

Retired several years after reaching FI. Now that I am retired (at age 53) there is no amount of (reasonable) compensation that could compel me to return to any form of paid (or unpaid) work. I'm done with that and enjoy doing what I want every day. Just thinking about going back to work where the companies problems become mine makes me nauseous. But different strokes for different folks.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 6886
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by FIREchief »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 am A) If you are Financially Independence (FI), what makes you go back to work?
In my case, as long at the FI (and maybe the ACA if needed) "sticks," there ain't nothing on God's green earth that could make me go back. :mrgreen:
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
GG1273
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:21 pm
Location: NJ

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by GG1273 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:07 am
On the bright side, with all this money, I plan to order a Lotus Emira.
Very sharp looking Lotus.

I was in town last weekend and outside one of the small cafes was a McLaren 620R and a Karma Revero...
Don't know who won the race after lunch...or who picked up the check

https://www.karmaautomotive.com/#today
susan123
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:53 am

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by susan123 »

I'm happy for you Klang. Sounds like a good opportunity. I'd jump on it and at least give it a try. The worst that could happen is that after you start working, you find it's not what you thought it would be, then you can just quit :wink: . Nothing to lose by trying since it sounds like a good opportunity.

Congratulations!
dboeger1
Posts: 639
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by dboeger1 »

hi_there wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:25 pm I don't understand this concept of "financial independence" as it relates to just not needing more money. It's a false mental wall, as financial "need" is driven by perspective and actual financial situation. If the same "financially independent" person had 10x their net worth, and you ask them how much money they would need to spend every year, their answer will probably be different from if they had less money.

OP has an opportunity to increase his financial capital at the expense of time, at a price that makes sense for him. He can increase his living standard, add more safety to his portfolio, donate to charity, or whatever he wants with this extra money. The point is, there is still utility to be gained, and wants/needs are categories that overlap. The previous financial situation is a slope, not an on/off toggle that says whether you are independent.
At the cost of time, as you pointed out. I think that's the key consideration. Everyone could use extra money... until they can't. I think that's why FI is more tangible than you give it credit for. Before FI, there isn't much of a choice, unless inserting gap years into earnings is a viable choice, which isn't the case in all career fields, companies, geographies, etc.
Topic Author
KlangFool
Posts: 21537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool »

susan123 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:01 pm I'm happy for you Klang. Sounds like a good opportunity. I'd jump on it and at least give it a try. The worst that could happen is that after you start working, you find it's not what you thought it would be, then you can just quit :wink: . Nothing to lose by trying since it sounds like a good opportunity.

Congratulations!
Thanks.

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
EnjoyIt
Posts: 5862
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by EnjoyIt »

Klangfool,
After a few months of heading to work, please post your thoughts and experiences. Especially if you have had any new epiphanies regarding working when you don’t really need the money.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Topic Author
KlangFool
Posts: 21537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool »

EnjoyIt wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:15 am Klangfool,
After a few months of heading to work, please post your thoughts and experiences. Especially if you have had any new epiphanies regarding working when you don’t really need the money.
Okay. Now, I am just too busy... My down time is when my business laptop is down. Like now. Thanks to the Window....

KlangFool
40% VWENX | 12.5% VFWAX/VTIAX | 11.5% VTSAX | 16% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 40% Wellington 40% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
mr_brightside
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:23 pm

Re: Working after Financial Independence

Post by mr_brightside »

MikeG62 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:34 pm Retired several years after reaching FI. Now that I am retired (at age 53) there is no amount of (reasonable) compensation that could compel me to return to any form of paid (or unpaid) work. I'm done with that and enjoy doing what I want every day. Just thinking about going back to work where the companies problems become mine makes me nauseous. But different strokes for different folks.
same for me having just gone through this recently. the thought of sitting across the table from my yes-man manager spewing corporate platitudes makes me want to throw up. another Zoom corporate session while the HQ people 'work from home' while the field-based employees maintain a 100 mph pace?? no freakin' thanks :annoyed

-----------------------------------------------------
Post Reply