Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

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smitcat
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by smitcat »

jfn111 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:45 am Unless my client "loved" the house I would advise we keep looking. If we hadn't found another house, in a week or two, I'd get back in touch with the listing agent and let them know our offer is still on the table. Sellers don't have to be reasonable and buyers just need to continue looking.
Yes exactly - sellers do not have to be reasonable ...and buyers do not have to be reasonable either.
It is a process that takes work and is best accomplished with as little emotion as possible on either side.
Beehave
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Beehave »

I've read the responses above and I'm squarely in the buyer should walk camp.

Often the selling and buying agents are in close contact through much, if not all of the process. As buyer, I'd want to know from my agent why they allowed so much of my time and effort to go so far down this path with this result. If the answer is at all muddy or suspicious, find not just another seller, but another agent to represent your financial interests and your time.

Remember - - the time you spent dealing with this hot mess could have been much better spent - - possibly you missed out on some other opportunity whose window was only briefly open while you were dealing with these clowns. Maybe your agent was completely and understandably blindsided by these sellers and their agent. But maybe not. I'd be peeved and wary of everyone.
Cycle
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Cycle »

All about the property, location, frankly I think you keep the offer as is. If it doesn't work out, move on. Why would you bid against yourself?
Last edited by Cycle on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dogagility
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by dogagility »

an_asker wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:33 am
dogagility wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:10 am
B4Xt3r wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:37 pm A home was listed and received one offer at list price. Seller is then disappointed at lack of a bidding war and then says they will sell to the buyer only if buyer raises their price. Market is extremely hot.

What would you do in such a situation?
I'm assuming the seller counter-offered and the ball is in the buyer's court now.[...]
What counter offer?
Maybe this is just verbal back and forth between buyer and seller, or maybe the bolded part above was taken from a counteroffer. I assumed the latter.
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AerialWombat
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by AerialWombat »

Plot twist: OP is the seller.
For entertainment purposes only.
stan1
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by stan1 »

Beehave wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 am Often the selling and buying agents are in close contact through much, if not all of the process. As buyer, I'd want to know from my agent why they allowed so much of my time and effort to go so far down this path with this result. If the answer is at all muddy or suspicious, find not just another seller, but another agent to represent your financial interests and your time.
Not sure what you want either agent to do? The seller is playing games. I'm sure both agents aren't real happy with seller's behavior. It's fun to hate on realtors but in the end they are an agent not the principal and do not make decisions.
afan
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by afan »

The prospective buyer got a free market consult informing them that the list price was too high. The buyer should be relieved that their over-market offer was rejected. Buyer can either move on, or make a more reasonable offer, that is lower. The seller may reject that too. If so move on.

Do not further increase an already over market price
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bwalling
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by bwalling »

stan1 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:16 am
Beehave wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 am Often the selling and buying agents are in close contact through much, if not all of the process. As buyer, I'd want to know from my agent why they allowed so much of my time and effort to go so far down this path with this result. If the answer is at all muddy or suspicious, find not just another seller, but another agent to represent your financial interests and your time.
Not sure what you want either agent to do? The seller is playing games. I'm sure both agents aren't real happy with seller's behavior. It's fun to hate on realtors but in the end they are an agent not the principal and do not make decisions.
Agents talk to each other, and frequently they know each other. Sometimes, it's useful to know that the other agent has a history of being a pain or playing games. It lets you know to just walk away.
rich126
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by rich126 »

I've known a couple of very high end (they have 100+ employees) agents/brokers and generally the idea is to price a house at or slightly below the going rate for the house in order to get multiple bids which then causes someone to overpay for the home. They tell me the homes that don't sell right away and don't get multiple offers usually are homes that are priced too high.

My guess is that the homeowner was greedy and priced it too high. Often people look at list/sale prices and assume if their house is of similar size it should go for the same amount but the differences of 2 exactly same sized homes can be vast. One might be in move in condition with everything tip-top and the other is almost a complete remodel costing an easy 6 figures+. Many people can't be objective with themselves or their possessions and greatly overvalue things.
EddyB
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by EddyB »

bwalling wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:19 am
EddyB wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:30 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:23 pm
livesoft wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:07 pm I would laugh and say the real estate agent will probably have to reduce their commission, so that the seller nets more money.
+1. I’d walk away. They’re not serious.

I wouldn’t do business with people like that. I guarantee you they will be a PITA during the entire process.
I don't see why. Many agents are very confident in their views on listing below the "real" expected sales price. Most people buy and sell very few homes in their lives and listen to the advice of their agents. When things don't turn out like the agent expects, I don't see why that would suggest a difficult seller.

From what I've heard of similar situations, my understanding is that a seller's agent in this situation in a generally hot market will likely reduce his or her commission (and that sometimes the buyer's agent will go along with it, too).
This is ridiculous. If an agent wants to play games, I'm out. You listed a house at a price - essentially an offer of sale. I accepted by sending over a contract at the terms you described. You didn't even counter - you just said "make a better offer" in response to my offering exactly what you asked.

You can make whatever "charitable" interpretations you want, but either the seller or the seller's agent here are dishonest and are playing games. There will be more games to come after the inspection, etc. I have no interest. None. If others wish to be suckers and participate with people making bad faith listings, let them.

Don't let other people set the terms and boundaries of a negotiation. Know your alternatives and goals, and know their goals and alternatives. Frame your responses accordingly. Don't let them frame them.

Last time I sold a house, there was an agent that sent in offers with expirations of 1 hour, multiple times. Each time, I rejected them, responding that offers would be considered and responded to by the end of the next day. Eventually, she relented, but she wound up being awful and playing games the entire process. I wish I had simply rejected the offer altogether over the agent's behavior. I sold the house and got my money without conceding anything, but I wasted an incredible amount of time countering her games.
I’m not saying the bidder shouldn’t walk away if the house isn’t worth more to him or her, and I agree about how he or she should approach any purchase, but it’s clear that a listing is not an offer to sell. Characterizing it as such is just wrong, and then getting indignant about things stemming from that mischaracterization (and accusing sellers of dishonesty on that basis) makes it something other than a dispassionate negotiation. It’s a piece of data for the prospective buyer to consider, but the claims that it’s a window into the soul of the seller are a bit overstated, in my opinion. Without knowing how much time has passed and what the buyer’s other options are, our insight into the situation seems limited.
bwalling
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by bwalling »

EddyB wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 am
bwalling wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:19 am
EddyB wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:30 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:23 pm
livesoft wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:07 pm I would laugh and say the real estate agent will probably have to reduce their commission, so that the seller nets more money.
+1. I’d walk away. They’re not serious.

I wouldn’t do business with people like that. I guarantee you they will be a PITA during the entire process.
I don't see why. Many agents are very confident in their views on listing below the "real" expected sales price. Most people buy and sell very few homes in their lives and listen to the advice of their agents. When things don't turn out like the agent expects, I don't see why that would suggest a difficult seller.

From what I've heard of similar situations, my understanding is that a seller's agent in this situation in a generally hot market will likely reduce his or her commission (and that sometimes the buyer's agent will go along with it, too).
This is ridiculous. If an agent wants to play games, I'm out. You listed a house at a price - essentially an offer of sale. I accepted by sending over a contract at the terms you described. You didn't even counter - you just said "make a better offer" in response to my offering exactly what you asked.

You can make whatever "charitable" interpretations you want, but either the seller or the seller's agent here are dishonest and are playing games. There will be more games to come after the inspection, etc. I have no interest. None. If others wish to be suckers and participate with people making bad faith listings, let them.

Don't let other people set the terms and boundaries of a negotiation. Know your alternatives and goals, and know their goals and alternatives. Frame your responses accordingly. Don't let them frame them.

Last time I sold a house, there was an agent that sent in offers with expirations of 1 hour, multiple times. Each time, I rejected them, responding that offers would be considered and responded to by the end of the next day. Eventually, she relented, but she wound up being awful and playing games the entire process. I wish I had simply rejected the offer altogether over the agent's behavior. I sold the house and got my money without conceding anything, but I wasted an incredible amount of time countering her games.
I’m not saying the bidder shouldn’t walk away if the house isn’t worth more to him or her, and I agree about how he or she should approach any purchase, but it’s clear that a listing is not an offer to sell. Characterizing it as such is just wrong, and then getting indignant about things stemming from that mischaracterization (and accusing sellers of dishonesty on that basis) makes it something other than a dispassionate negotiation. It’s a piece of data for the prospective buyer to consider, but the claims that it’s a window into the soul of the seller are a bit overstated, in my opinion. Without knowing how much time has passed and what the buyer’s other options are, our insight into the situation seems limited.
You are technically correct, but your correctness is limited to technicality only.
Beehave
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Beehave »

stan1 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:16 am
Beehave wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 am Often the selling and buying agents are in close contact through much, if not all of the process. As buyer, I'd want to know from my agent why they allowed so much of my time and effort to go so far down this path with this result. If the answer is at all muddy or suspicious, find not just another seller, but another agent to represent your financial interests and your time.
Not sure what you want either agent to do? The seller is playing games. I'm sure both agents aren't real happy with seller's behavior. It's fun to hate on realtors but in the end they are an agent not the principal and do not make decisions.
Not sure where you see either the (a) "hate on realtors" in my post or (b) the enjoyment ("fun") I allegedly get from the hate. I don't hate realtors (or politicians or lawyers), and I don't find fun in hate.

I do expect anyone acting as my agent to represent my interests. If a major deal I'm working on goes off the rails, I want to be sure I understand why. It may be that the seller blindsided everyone. And it may not be. If it's not, I sure want to figure out why I was the last one blindsided. That's because I'm still trying to buy a house and my agent will be involved.
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galawdawg
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by galawdawg »

bwalling wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:26 am
EddyB wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 am
bwalling wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:19 am
EddyB wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:30 pm
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:23 pm

+1. I’d walk away. They’re not serious.

I wouldn’t do business with people like that. I guarantee you they will be a PITA during the entire process.
I don't see why. Many agents are very confident in their views on listing below the "real" expected sales price. Most people buy and sell very few homes in their lives and listen to the advice of their agents. When things don't turn out like the agent expects, I don't see why that would suggest a difficult seller.

From what I've heard of similar situations, my understanding is that a seller's agent in this situation in a generally hot market will likely reduce his or her commission (and that sometimes the buyer's agent will go along with it, too).
This is ridiculous. If an agent wants to play games, I'm out. You listed a house at a price - essentially an offer of sale. I accepted by sending over a contract at the terms you described. You didn't even counter - you just said "make a better offer" in response to my offering exactly what you asked.

You can make whatever "charitable" interpretations you want, but either the seller or the seller's agent here are dishonest and are playing games. There will be more games to come after the inspection, etc. I have no interest. None. If others wish to be suckers and participate with people making bad faith listings, let them.

Don't let other people set the terms and boundaries of a negotiation. Know your alternatives and goals, and know their goals and alternatives. Frame your responses accordingly. Don't let them frame them.

Last time I sold a house, there was an agent that sent in offers with expirations of 1 hour, multiple times. Each time, I rejected them, responding that offers would be considered and responded to by the end of the next day. Eventually, she relented, but she wound up being awful and playing games the entire process. I wish I had simply rejected the offer altogether over the agent's behavior. I sold the house and got my money without conceding anything, but I wasted an incredible amount of time countering her games.
I’m not saying the bidder shouldn’t walk away if the house isn’t worth more to him or her, and I agree about how he or she should approach any purchase, but it’s clear that a listing is not an offer to sell. Characterizing it as such is just wrong, and then getting indignant about things stemming from that mischaracterization (and accusing sellers of dishonesty on that basis) makes it something other than a dispassionate negotiation. It’s a piece of data for the prospective buyer to consider, but the claims that it’s a window into the soul of the seller are a bit overstated, in my opinion. Without knowing how much time has passed and what the buyer’s other options are, our insight into the situation seems limited.
You are technically correct, but your correctness is limited to technicality only.
EddyB is correct. A real estate listing is not an offer that can simply be accepted, it is an invitation to offer. Also, there is nothing in what OP has reported that suggests that there is any dishonesty on the part of the seller or their agent.

I do agree with your point that the OP should not let the seller set the terms and boundaries of the negotiation nor should the buyer pursue this any further. Some would consider any buyer that increases their offer under these circumstances a "mark" who is ripe for the picking. If nothing else, it gives the seller the upper-hand in all negotiations on the transaction due to buyer's perceived weakness or desperation.

I also agree that the seller's response to OP's offer suggests that any transaction with this seller and/or their agent is likely to be more much more difficult than it needs to be. The buyer should certainly consider the decreased likelihood of a smooth and trouble-free transaction when making decisions, if and when any interest is expressed by the seller to resuming/beginning negotiations.
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Nate79
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Nate79 »

Hey look, another multi page thread full of hot air and speculation. Yup, it's a normal day.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by cheese_breath »

Is this through FSBO or realtor? IF FSBO he can do whatever he wants. If through realtor he might owe realtor a commission.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by lazynovice »

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=345816&p=5957374#p5957374

You have been looking for awhile in a very hot market. You should know the market in your area pretty well by now. You should have a pretty good idea why this house only got one offer. There is something quirky about it. Your realtor ought to be able to point it out as well. It is something obvious that has nothing to do with an inspection. Ask your realtor what it is.

What is the realtor advising? It is her job to advise you. She advised you to offer list in a market where houses are going much higher than list. Why?
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Normchad »

cheese_breath wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:37 am Is this through FSBO or realtor? IF FSBO he can do whatever he wants. If through realtor he might owe realtor a commission.
I actually hope the seller gets stuck paying the commission, and never sells the house.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by LadyGeek »

The discussion is getting derailed on discrimination and fairness in housing (legal issue outside the scope of this forum).

Please stay on-topic, which are the financial aspects.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by cheese_breath »

B4Xt3r wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:01 pm
fabdog wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:50 pm Will be interesting to see what seller's agent does... since a full price offer was received, I believe the agent is entitled to their commission even if the seller doesn't accept the offer

I'd (or tell you friend) to sit tight and see what happens... if the seller declines a full price offer, so be it... as noted above, that could well be above market

Mike
Is that a part of the sellers contract? I didn’t know that.
If the agent brought in a qualified buyer at listing price, he's fulfilled his end of the contract and is entitled to his commission.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Big Dog »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:27 pm I'd walk. I don't like to deal with folks who want to play games.
Concur. Plus, I'd file a complaint the the local/state Realtor licensing board as the listing Realtor had to know that the seller was not going to accept that full price offer.

Assuming the OP is not the seller, all the discussion about whether a commission is owed is not all that relevant as the Realtor may have had a verbal arrangement will seller. Regardless, it shouldn't matter to the Buyer.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Golf maniac »

You as the buyer with your offer have set the market price. There are no other bidders on the house so the home is fairly priced. I would stand firm on your original offer, if they don’t want to sell then it is between them and their realtor. The realtor may have put dreams of multiple offers in their head. Also, I would never buy a preowned home without an inspection. But that’s just me.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by andypanda »

"A real estate listing is not an offer that can simply be accepted, it is an invitation to offer. "

Oh, my mistake, I thought listing something in an ad that stated FOR SALE and putting a specific price in the ad meant that's what they wanted to sell it for. How foolish of me. :oops:

A buyer states they will meet the seller's stated price with a cash offer and they don't insist on any contingencies. The seller comes back with a nebulous demand for more money and the agent goes along with it. I guess the real estate industry/market has made it down there with used car lots.

I know, I know, but everyone is doing it. And they don't see what's wrong with their behavior.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by afan »

Golf maniac wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:37 pm You as the buyer with your offer have set the market price. There are no other bidders on the house so the home is fairly priced.
Well, the buyer has not set the market price because no sale has taken place. The buyer would have set the market price if the offer had been accepted. As it is, the offer was at the listing price but clearly above the market price.

I would say "there are no other bidders so the home is overpriced."

The OP should not increase their offer unless they had some overwhelming desire/need to buy this particular place. Otherwise, the lack of bids at the listing price means that the price is above market.
The reaction is to either make another LOWER offer or move on.

There is no point in speculating about what is going through the minds of the seller or seller's agent, if there is one. Too many possibilities to guess and it does not matter.

Either the seller is going to accept a price that someone is prepared to pay, in which case the home will sell, or the seller will reject market price offers and it will not sell.
Last edited by afan on Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by galawdawg »

andypanda wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:07 pm "A real estate listing is not an offer that can simply be accepted, it is an invitation to offer. "

Oh, my mistake, I thought listing something in an ad that stated FOR SALE and putting a specific price in the ad meant that's what they wanted to sell it for. How foolish of me. :oops:
That is a very common misconception. The law treats real estate listings as invitations to offer, rather than as offers, for a number of reasons. Likewise, many advertisements are also invitations to offer, rather than actual offers. In some cases, the advertisement contains all of the terms, has enough specificity as to the terms, and has the ability to be accepted without further negotiation or clarification to the extent that it can be considered an offer, rather than an invitation. Bur that is the exception to the rule rather than the general rule.

Law students spend one or two semesters of their first year studying contract law and the intricacies that can sometimes be at odds with what many laypersons understand or perceive the law to be. :happy
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by palaheel »

galawdawg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:34 pm
andypanda wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:07 pm "A real estate listing is not an offer that can simply be accepted, it is an invitation to offer. "

Oh, my mistake, I thought listing something in an ad that stated FOR SALE and putting a specific price in the ad meant that's what they wanted to sell it for. How foolish of me. :oops:
That is a very common misconception. The law treats real estate listings as invitations to offer, rather than as offers, for a number of reasons. Likewise, many advertisements are also invitations to offer, rather than actual offers. In some cases, the advertisement contains all of the terms, has enough specificity as to the terms, and has the ability to be accepted without further negotiation or clarification to the extent that it can be considered an offer, rather than an invitation. Bur that is the exception to the rule rather than the general rule.

Law students spend one or two semesters of their first year studying contract law and the intricacies that can sometimes be at odds with what many laypersons understand or perceive the law to be. :happy
This makes me glad that I did not follow one professor's advice that I go to law school. :D
Nothing to say, really.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Mlm »

Golf maniac wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:37 pm You as the buyer with your offer have set the market price. There are no other bidders on the house so the home is fairly priced. I would stand firm on your original offer, if they don’t want to sell then it is between them and their realtor. The realtor may have put dreams of multiple offers in their head. Also, I would never buy a preowned home without an inspection. But that’s just me.
Me too. I was wondering what the sellers aversion to an inspection was. The seller could have required that it be done within a week or less.
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B4Xt3r
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by B4Xt3r »

OP here.

Seller is advertising an open house next weekend. Apparently list price was not acceptable and they really want a bidding war.
nolesrule
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by nolesrule »

You can't have a bidding war without multiple bidders. Auction-type negotiation goes out the window when you only have one potential buyer. With a single bidder/buyer the listing's asking price is an anchoring price within the negotiation and since it's put forth by the seller, that's the max price (unless the buyer makes a higher offer to start). Once the single buyer has offered the list price there's no more room to negotiate... though as can be seen that doesn't mean the seller won't try.

Don't play games. If you're the buyer just walk away.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

B4Xt3r wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:37 pm Hi all,

Just curious for your thoughts on the following real estate transaction. A home was listed and received one offer at list price. Seller is then disappointed at lack of a bidding war and then says they will sell to the buyer only if buyer raises their price. Market is extremely hot.

What would you do in such a situation?

Best,

B4xt3r
If I was the buyer, I would walk. They don't want to sell the house OR their goal is to get some $$ amount for the house (for bragging rights) and aren't all that interested on the $$ they will actually get when the dust from the sale settles. (I have a relative like that - he dumped an additional 20K into his house AFTER getting it 'sale ready" because no one was putting in offers at his asking price. The potential buyers felt that the price was too high to pay for 5 year old appliances, and an outdated kitchen countertop and hardwood flooring that was 'older'. He put in all new appliances (kitchen + washer and dryer), a new countertop, tore out the old hardwood floor and put in new hardwood, and replaced a bunch of other stuff -so he'd get the price he felt his house was worth. I'm guessing he got the same amount of money after the sale as he would have gotten if he came down 20K on the price and sold it 4 months sooner)

I was under the impression that when buying/selling a house - even if you offered the 'sale' price and no other offers were put in the Seller wasn't obligated to sell the house to you. You don't automatically have a "contract" because you offered to pay the asking price of the house (and there were no other offers made).

Alternatively, if I really really really really wanted the house - I would try to find some other way to keep the sale price the same without actually giving the seller more money. If the house is in a High Property tax area - I might point out that selling it quickly (if you can indeed get to closing quickly) saves the seller from having to pay additional months of Property Taxes. It also saves them the expense of keeping the house in "sale" condition, along with utilities, lawn care, and perhaps the monthly cost of a rental "storage unit" where they stuck all their crap to make their house look nicer.

If I think the seller is "looking for bragging rights" about how much they got for the house (as opposed to getting a specific dollar amount from the sale when the dust clears) I might offer a higher bid price IF they foot the bill for some fix ups to their house before the sale - maybe repaint the interior in the colors you want - or replace all the carpeting or whatever else will cost the amount (or more!) that you bumped up your bid. - basically stuff you will have to do after moving in. Mortgage rates are really low. The seller gets their high price (without actually pocketing any additional $$ and you get to use low interest money for improvements you were going to make to the house after the sale.) :)
Last edited by LittleMaggieMae on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Freetime76
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Freetime76 »

B4Xt3r wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:14 pm OP here.

Seller is advertising an open house next weekend. Apparently list price was not acceptable and they really want a bidding war.
Thank you for updating. Now that I think of it, I have seen listings pulled and relisted at higher prices, but not with accepted offers at the higher price. Oh, that is ornery. So, same listing & same price?? Very odd.Their realtor must be feeling generous or maybe is somehow related to the seller (friend, family etc). :D

I might consider clearing my schedule to go to that open house, incognito of course. Not to bid - just to eavesdrop. :mrgreen:
Except that I can think of a lot to do with that time - like finding another house or googling when are house prices going to drop. Or trimming my nails.
dogagility
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by dogagility »

B4Xt3r wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:14 pm OP here.

Seller is advertising an open house next weekend. Apparently list price was not acceptable and they really want a bidding war.
The seller is unlikely to have that desired bidding war at this point.
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andypanda
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by andypanda »

"That is a very common misconception."

Oh no, I never thought a real estate ad was binding. That's why the law says all deals must be in writing. It protects the sellers and the buyers. Everybody knows that you can't trust anyone, especially used cars lots and people selling and buying real estate.

I was simply making fun of some of the people in the business and some of the sellers who play stupid games like naming their price and then deciding it isn't high enough when someone agrees to it. Then they wonder why they get called names and prospective buyers walk away or run away without saying goodbye.

And then there's the OP's situation when the seller decides not to take the price they put in the ad and follows up by boldly asking for more without saying how much more. Sure buddy, you sit by the phone and wait for my call...
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by andypanda »

"I might consider clearing my schedule to go to that open house, incognito of course."

I'd go if I was in the neighborhood, but only to tell them I was back to see if I'd miscounted the number of rooms or overlooked the swimming pool or something else of special value I hadn't seen. But I'm retired and easily amused some days. :)
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by afan »

It is possible that OP missed something that would have made a higher price reasonable.
BUT. No one else thought the place merited a higher price either. The sellers reserve price, which they have not disclosed, is simply higher than market.

If OP has an overwhelming desire for this one place, consider putting in a new bid at a lower price. After the open house.
Otherwise, just move on.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by an_asker »

B4Xt3r wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:14 pm OP here.

Seller is advertising an open house next weekend. Apparently list price was not acceptable and they really want a bidding war.
I was curious whether you were really the buyer or the seller based on a response up thread. So, I dug up this post of yours. Based on it, the issue appears to be what you speculated - your insistence on contingencies. If I were wanting to sell my house for top dollar in current market, I would want a no contingencies offer, so I don't have to face claw back of offer dollars.

That said, from back when we were buying a house a decade ago, our real estate agent had informed us that whether we insist on contingencies or not, there is always leeway from a buyer's standpoint to renege on the contract without losing anything so there is always that option for you.

Disclaimer: that said, I don't know the specifics of how that would have worked and, thankfully, we didn't come to that bridge, let alone having to cross it. :-)
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by afan »

There was a house in my neighborhood that twice went under contract and twice went back on the market. Ended up selling for considerably less than the listing price. We assumed there was something that turned up at inspection each time and seller finally had to accept a price appropriate to a house in that condition.

I would not make an offer without an inspection contingency. You never know what you will find.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by BogleFan510 »

It may be timing. We are closing in a sale tomorrow. In our first two weeks of showings we only received one offer, 25k under asking. We were puzsed because our price was 30k under what it ultimately appraised at, and is a great home. Our agent asked if we wanted to counter the weak offer, and we said no. We mentioned that the rental market is really strong still and not selling was financially a better thing for us (we are selling to avoid rental hassles). Our agent (who is great) then reached out to other agents and passed the word. She heard that our house had showed so well, that some people didnt want to make losing offers because they had assumed it would be a crazy bidding war and for for something crazy like 100k+ over. After another week we got 3 good offers on the same day, all over asking by 5-10 %.

I am assuming the seller is not impatient and waiting for those looking to get into the action (they hope). More info about days on market and average days to close in this area would help. In our case quite a few buyers existed, chasing several homes. There were about a dozen new inventory in a month, all around the same time, but homes were selling in 7-14 days so like musical chairs, some buyers needed to wait to see if their most recent offer(s) were accepted or not on a similar home, and maybe ours was their second or third choice, but the buyers all had a solid financing and understood the market values. The area in which we were selling has very limited inventory, long term, but the homes are very location driven and somewhat commoditities. People know what is a good price. Also some of the new homes entering the market looked ok, because of the price spike, but had serious flaws or sky high asking prices for odd locatiojs or features. The price spike attracted some normally hard to sell properties.

Real estate is local. We are happy and our buyers appear happy we reached a market price.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by retiredflyboy »

I would tell the seller they have a serious offer on the table for list price. If not accepted you are open to a counter offer. See what happens. I would not bid against myself. If the seller does not counter I would walk. If a counter is offered I would consider it.
Facts are stubborn things. Everything works until it doesn’t.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by jeremyl »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:23 pm
livesoft wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:07 pm I would laugh and say the real estate agent will probably have to reduce their commission, so that the seller nets more money.
+1. I’d walk away. They’re not serious.

I wouldn’t do business with people like that. I guarantee you they will be a PITA during the entire process.
☝️ Guaranteed. We had a buyer that was extremely petty about stuff a couple of months ago. After they closed on the home, tried to request we pay for a cleaning service to clean carpets, walls etc. They had no issue on the final walk through.

Walk away.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by Doom&Gloom »

I would walk.

Then I would go home and have a discussion with myself (or with my agent if I had one) about why I was the only one to make an offer--and at the price listed, which the market is suggesting was too high.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by srt7 »

B4Xt3r wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:37 pm Hi all,

Just curious for your thoughts on the following real estate transaction. A home was listed and received one offer at list price. Seller is then disappointed at lack of a bidding war and then says they will sell to the buyer only if buyer raises their price. Market is extremely hot.

What would you do in such a situation?

Best,

B4xt3r
That depends. Am I a seller or a buyer? Let's start there.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by LilyFleur »

Exchme wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:30 am Presumably the pool of hungry buyers knows the market, so if I was the only offer in a seller's market, I would wonder what defect I missed that everyone else knew about. Is there something about the house - plumbing, foundation, electrical or something about the location - new developments nearby, floodplains, noise, smells, bad schools, deteriorating neighborhood, impossible traffic, etc. that this buyer missed?

The search for another option needs to start right away. Agents talk, so there is value in showing a willingness to move on. Either on this house or the next, the buyer's agent will understand them better and will convey their seriousness but unwillingness to play games.
I agree. Is the house going to appraise much lower than the sales price, and the buyer will have to kick in a bunch of cash? Is the inspection a contingency, or is the buyer stuck with expensive repairs on an expensive house? And so on.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by LadyGeek »

A contentious interchange regarding fair housing discrimination has been removed.

Please stay focused on the financial aspects.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by valleyrock »

My agent told me they have a saying, that the first offer is usually the best offer.

Other point is to ask your agent for more information. Have you reviewed thoroughly the disclosure statement and any supporting documents? Has an appraisal been done by the seller? Go on the county property tax records and understand the history of the house...how long it's been owned. If they are flippers, then that's one thing Check redfin and other places to see if there are previous listings... sometimes even with photos.
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JoMoney
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by JoMoney »

It's not good to "fall in love" with a house until it's yours. Time to move on and keep looking.
Hard for me to believe this is a "hot market" and yet only one offer, I've been hearing stories from people getting 5+ offers, some site unseen, above asking price, some with 'escalation clauses' saying they will beat other offers, some with letters from children saying how much they love the house and trying to tug on the heart-strings.
Even if this was the 'only offer' it's typical for other things to be written in like 'contingencies', things like another home selling first, or the buyer being able to get a mortgage and close the deal in so many days... was this an all cash offer? maybe there was a contingency the seller didn't like.
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hand
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by hand »

Ask for access to do an inspection with intention of strengthening the offer by waiving the appraisal contingency.
You may be able to do the same with the financing appraisal.
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by afan »

JoMoney wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:52 am Hard for me to believe this is a "hot market" and yet only one offer,
Even in hot markets a house can be overpriced. I no one else bid at the listing price, that is an excellent indication that the price was too high. A listing at market price in a hot market will sell. If a house is worth 500k in a hot market and is listed at 600k, then no one will buy it.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
njdealguy
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Re: Home seller (at-least initially) declined only offer at list price

Post by njdealguy »

What about the case where a full price offer is made but with crazy contingencies like on the basis of the buyer's current home being sold, and if declined still need to pay the listing agent commission?
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