Elder care robotics

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leftcoaster
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Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

According to estimates by AARP, there are currently about seven people aged 45-64 to care for each person who is 80 or older. By 2030 that figure is expected to fall to only four. By 2050 there will be fewer than three caregivers for every person over the age of 80.

I will turn 80 in 2050….

Those of us who are thinking about LTCi - surely the above gives pause. Great, you have the $$ but is there anyone you can hire for the job? And without a COLA, demand will drive the cost of labor through the roof.

Enter elder care robotics. Is this something folks here would see as a viable solution either on its own or as an extender to a human workforce?

Quite a few companies are leaning in on this. Japan and Korea may lead the way given their acute problem with a graying population.

Mods: actionable …

1) invest in robotics
2) re-evaluate Long Term Care insurance viability
3) buy products in this domain
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leftcoaster
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

Here’s one product that can get a wheelchair bound person in and out of bed.

https://www.engadget.com/2015-02-26-rob ... giver.html
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by gwe67 »

30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by cheese_breath »

I wouldn't want a robot changing my diaper.
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leftcoaster
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
Those never existed. These do.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by gwe67 »

leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:20 pm
gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
Those never existed. These do.
Sure they did. And the support and expectations for the idea was much more widespread than it is today for elder care robotics.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car1.htm
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by Flyer24 »

Thread has run its course (not actionable). Topics need to be about personal consumer issues and not a general discussion of future technologies.

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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by LadyGeek »

After receiving several PMs, this thread is actionable as a consumer issue.

1. Products you can buy now.

Investing in robotics can be discussed in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum. (Bear in mind that's a sector bet...)

You can also discuss LTC (Long-Term Care) insurance in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum, but the discussion should be directly actionable to what you can do now - not conjecture on future possibilities.

This thread is unlocked to continue the discussion.
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leftcoaster
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

Thanks for unlocking…

Here’s a video from Time with a few currently available solutions in an assisted living facility:

https://youtu.be/SZTYyFNSL5o

It makes total sense in that environment to have an automated system monitor who needs what meds when. That might also work at home. And the dementia comforting robot could work in either place.

The bingo robot is hilarious.

The one I linked above can lift people in and out of bed.

So those things can extend a limited human staff. Still need food prep and bathroom assistance. In a facility the humans can do it. Is there anything available for in the home yet?
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by squirm »

gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
The "paperless" office was suppose to happen twenty years ago too.
runninginvestor
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by runninginvestor »

From my experience, consumer/patient facing robotics oversells and under-delivers in the healthcare setting. This isn't including things like iPads for Inpatients to help order meals, ask questions, see results, schedules, etc. or gps monitoring devices for dementia/Alzheimer's patients. I think largely since those products had time to develop and work our issues on a large consumer scale. They are also not providing direct/hands on care services; more fringe services that boost care.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by Slacker »

squirm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:44 pm
gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
The "paperless" office was suppose to happen twenty years ago too.
I don't use any paper.

I look through nearly a thousand patents a day and type up 30-60 pages on a patent application daily. Electronically sign all reviews and pay paperwork. I have a 100% paperless office.

Haven't received a paper quote or invoice for any work on my home in years. They always have tablets and email me the relevant documents.

I'm sure someone could demand paper, but many areas in my life I do not see paper anymore.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

Slacker wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:57 pm
squirm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:44 pm
gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
The "paperless" office was suppose to happen twenty years ago too.
I don't use any paper.

I look through nearly a thousand patents a day and type up 30-60 pages on a patent application daily. Electronically sign all reviews and pay paperwork. I have a 100% paperless office.

Haven't received a paper quote or invoice for any work on my home in years. They always have tablets and email me the relevant documents.

I'm sure someone could demand paper, but many areas in my life I do not see paper anymore.
I don’t use paper either, other than to take notes which are then made actionable in digital form. Most of my colleagues don’t even do that.
TheDDC
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by TheDDC »

Elder care is already overpriced for what it is. I see no value in robots or automation if it wouldn't bring the price down substantially from where it is now.

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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by likegarden »

In one of the references provided above :
"An older Japanese gentleman wants to watch the International Space Station's closing ceremony, but he can't get out of bed. No problem! All he has to do is call Robear to help him get up."
I would not need that and stay in bed, have a TV on a book case and a remote in my hand, so why robots for that?
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

likegarden wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:08 pm In one of the references provided above :
"An older Japanese gentleman wants to watch the International Space Station's closing ceremony, but he can't get out of bed. No problem! All he has to do is call Robear to help him get up."
I would not need that and stay in bed, have a TV on a book case and a remote in my hand, so why robots for that?
Maybe he wants to watch with family? Maybe they have a smaller home and don’t have multiple TVs? That’s not uncommon outside the US.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by livesoft »

leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:43 pm According to estimates by AARP, there are currently about seven people aged 45-64 to care for each person who is 80 or older. By 2030 that figure is expected to fall to only four. By 2050 there will be fewer than three caregivers for every person over the age of 80.
I think there will be more people between ages 65-100 caring for people who are 80 or older.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by celia »

Looks like when I’m 80, I’ll still be caring for family members. So I’ll need a caregiver robot who works with caregivers and can sympathize with me.

Since falls are a major risk for seniors, I wouldn’t trust the above robot to lift me safely. I cringe to think what happens when we both fall down.

Preparing /heating meals, bringing me a beer, dispensing meds, reading to me when my vision fails, taking out RMDs as scheduled, and cleaning the floor might be done better by robots, but I would miss having a real person to talk to. As it is, I already “talk” to the bots on some websites to see what they can/can’t do/know. (I spent lots of time with “TED” on TDAmeritrade trying to find out where he lived. The “headquarters” was mentioned casually in another answer. But when I asked him about one of Warren Buffet’s comments, he couldn’t talk about other investors, especially those he’d never heard of.) I hope the AI creators are listening to the questions the “robot” can’t answer.

If we ever have self-driving cars, I would expect them to be a safer driver than the average human. But will they be able to take me to the self-driving car repair shop or will the car go by itself? If it’s “sick”, I’ll probably have to go with it and wait there until it “feels better”. Same for the other robots taking care of me.
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Last edited by celia on Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by hicabob »

What would you expect these "elder care robots" to do and what form do you see them being in?
Increased automation is a given, how it will happen is the unknown.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

celia wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:24 pm Looks like when I’m 80, I’ll still be caring for family members. So I’ll need a caregiver robot who works with caregivers and can sympathize with me.

Since falls are a major risk for seniors, I wouldn’t trust the above robot to lift me safely. I cringe to think what happens when we both fall down.

Preparing /heating meals, dispensing meds, reading to me when my vision fails, taking out RMDs as scheduled, and cleaning the floor might be done better by robots, but I would miss having a real person to talk to. As it is, I already “talk” to the bots on some websites to see what they can/can’t do/know. (I spent lots of time with “TED” on TDAmeritrade trying to find out where he lived. The “headquarters” was mentioned casually in another answer. But when I asked him about one of Warren Buffet’s comments, he couldn’t talk about other investors, especially those he’d never heard of.) I hope the AI creators are listening to the questions the “robot” can’t answer.

If we ever have self-driving cars, I would expect them to be a safer driver than the average human. But will they be able to take me to the self-driving car repair shop or will the car go by itself? If it’s “sick”, I’ll probably have to go with it and wait there until it “feels better”. Same for the other robots taking care of me.
:!: :!: :!:
Looks like the one that lifts people has the same power as those on assembly lines. So it can probably handle you.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

hicabob wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:30 pm What would you expect these "elder care robots" to do and what form do you see them being in?
Increased automation is a given, how it will happen is the unknown.
Did you look at the existing solutions? Those are known.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by JonnyDVM »

cheese_breath wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:04 pm I wouldn't want a robot changing my diaper.
Don’t worry, no robot wants that job

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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by celia »

leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:33 pm Looks like the one that lifts people has the same power as those on assembly lines. So it can probably handle you.
"Lifting" people is not just for lifting them up like they are a heavy package. If they are sick or elderly, they may be recovering from surgery and part of their body shouldn't be moved (in a cast or restraint). Maybe they just need a changed position so they don't get bed sores. Or maybe they need to be carried somewhere like to a shower or be placed in a wheelchair. Some of those tasks sound complicated when you break down the requirements.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by ResearchMed »

JonnyDVM wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:48 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:04 pm I wouldn't want a robot changing my diaper.
Don’t worry, no robot wants that job

I hold BOTZ. I firmly believe this will be a large part of the future economy.
Are there any mutual funds (not ETFs) that cover areas like this?

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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by Katietsu »

I have seen dementia patients who are very much comforted by the robotic cats.

I do believe that more will be done with at home medical monitoring and prescription administration to keep people functioning on their own for longer.

When I hear all the conversations about job displacement do to AI, be it truck drivers or journalists, I have often thought that some of those displaced would be needed for elder care.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by JonnyDVM »

ResearchMed wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:40 pm
JonnyDVM wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:48 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:04 pm I wouldn't want a robot changing my diaper.
Don’t worry, no robot wants that job

I hold BOTZ. I firmly believe this will be a large part of the future economy.
Are there any mutual funds (not ETFs) that cover areas like this?

RM
I haven’t found any and I’ve looked. Some here have argued that all the big tech are working on AI so owning the tech sector as a whole is good enough.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by phantom0308 »

I forget what it’s called (cost disease?), but there is some economic theory that industries with stagnant productivity growth and a higher proportion of cost for workers get more expensive over time because those workers could work at other ever more productive competitive industries (working in a factory making cell phones). Daycare doesn’t have a lot of room for productivity growth whereas other fields where those workers could work do. Daycare workers already don’t make enough to live a comfortable life, so it isn’t really possible to cut costs anymore. Elder care seems like it’ll follow that trend. All that is to say that I think anything that is able to increase productivity in elder care would be highly valuable.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by leftcoaster »

celia wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 pm
leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:33 pm Looks like the one that lifts people has the same power as those on assembly lines. So it can probably handle you.
"Lifting" people is not just for lifting them up like they are a heavy package. If they are sick or elderly, they may be recovering from surgery and part of their body shouldn't be moved (in a cast or restraint). Maybe they just need a changed position so they don't get bed sores. Or maybe they need to be carried somewhere like to a shower or be placed in a wheelchair. Some of those tasks sound complicated when you break down the requirements.
Excellent points. That said, I’m sure the folks working in this space understand the requirements or they won’t be successful.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by nigel_ht »

gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
https://youtu.be/Mr1V-r2YxME

Ehang 184 has been doing flight tests for 3-4 years now. There are a gazillion things to do before the technology is mature enough to deploy even as a taxi service in Dubai.

I suspect some big name will get there first simply from a liability standpoint…but maybe someone like Volocopter or Ehang will be first.

If I had to guess I’d guess Uber/Hyundai over Airbus or Boeing.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by Zillions »

leftcoaster wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:43 pm According to estimates by AARP, there are currently about seven people aged 45-64 to care for each person who is 80 or older. By 2030 that figure is expected to fall to only four. By 2050 there will be fewer than three caregivers for every person over the age of 80.

I will turn 80 in 2050….

Those of us who are thinking about LTCi - surely the above gives pause. Great, you have the $$ but is there anyone you can hire for the job? And without a COLA, demand will drive the cost of labor through the roof.

Enter elder care robotics. Is this something folks here would see as a viable solution either on its own or as an extender to a human workforce?

Quite a few companies are leaning in on this. Japan and Korea may lead the way given their acute problem with a graying population.

Mods: actionable …

1) invest in robotics
2) re-evaluate Long Term Care insurance viability
3) buy products in this domain
Not all of those currently available to provide care to the elderly OR the disabled are trustworthy or reliable. More than how many caregivers are available, I look at how reliable a caregiver would be if / when I ever need care.

As it is, IF I ever live to be 80, I'd still be caring for my son with autism, who has multiple comorbid issues, including GI issues that have made toileting enormous challenging for him and for me. He also tends to elope / bolt at even the slightest opportunity, and needs to be supervised at all times as he is quite accident prone, due to total lack of any safety awareness. A robot caregiver that can monitor him, help him with grooming, showering and toileting (including changing his pull-ups, if needed) would me personally life changing for him and for me, at any age, but esp when I'm 80 and he's 50+.

He never cooperates with medical care (is afraid of doctors, dentists, x-rays, blood tests & shots), so a robot that could do these would be a God-send & keep him at optimal health.

Personally, I pray every day for robotic caregivers that never get tired, never get overwhelmed, always show up, would never quit, and always treat him with respect, no matter how hard it gets to care for him. If / when that happens, I would not be afraid to die and leave him behind.

My current biggest fear is that he will outlive me and end up in a group home where he's neglected or even worse abused by uncaring, overworked, overwhelmed and underpaid caregivers who take their frustrations out on him.

A robot would not have the human touch, but it wouldn't have human weaknesses or challenges, either. Thank God!
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by nigel_ht »

From an investment perspective the first wave will be the smart home companies that enable us to remain independent a little while longer vs robots which are a couple three decades away.

The issue in the US with a positive population growth is far less acute than that in other countries like Japan.

This is one reason that I’m very much pro immigration…

From a LTCi perspective…I guess make sure it’ll pay out for care internationally in case the best option is say in Mexico…
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

squirm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:44 pm
gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
The "paperless" office was suppose to happen twenty years ago too.
This would have essentially happened already if boomers would stop printing out multi-page E-Mails for no good reason. Who's brave enough to cop to it? I know you're out there.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by AerialWombat »

squirm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:44 pm The "paperless" office was suppose to happen twenty years ago too.
I’ve operated a paperless office for 15 years. I don’t know about other industries, but it’s quite common in real estate and accounting.
For entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by hicabob »

nigel_ht wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:45 am
gwe67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm 30 years ago, people thought flying cars would be prevalent, did you invest then?

Investment philosophy these days is like what major league baseball has become....a few home runs but mostly strikeouts.
https://youtu.be/Mr1V-r2YxME

Ehang 184 has been doing flight tests for 3-4 years now. There are a gazillion things to do before the technology is mature enough to deploy even as a taxi service in Dubai.

I suspect some big name will get there first simply from a liability standpoint…but maybe someone like Volocopter or Ehang will be first.

If I had to guess I’d guess Uber/Hyundai over Airbus or Boeing.
And there is of course Dr Moller from Moller Intl. ... " He has been two years from releasing a commercial model for the past thirty-seven years. "
https://localwiki.org/davis/Moller_International
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Re: Elder care robotics

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run its course and is locked (derailed in several directions). See: Personal Consumer Issues
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