Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

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28fe6
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Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by 28fe6 »

For those unchilded, the federal child tax credit is substantial. Normally like $2000/kid per year. So with 3 kids that's $6000/year off my taxes. Not a small amount. It is a partly refundable credit and phases out for high income.

I got a letter from the IRS that instead of giving you the Child Tax Credit when you file taxes, they are going to send you monthly payments instead.

--there is no way to opt out yet. The letter says there should be a way to opt out by July but right now everyone is going to start getting the monthly payments by default

-- I don't want monthly payments because I carefully plan my taxes and now I have to make adjustments to my withholding or else I'll end up with a surprise tax bill.

--in fact, since it's opt-out, it means absolutely every W2 employee with kids will have to go adjust their withholding or they might have a surprise tax bill next year. So great...I get a monthly check from the IRS for $500/mo, but I need to go adjust my withholding up by $500/mo to send it right back to them. What is the possible benefit of that? It's going to backfire if a bunch of people end up owing taxes next year instead of getting a refund, and not be able to pay it because they spent their tax credit checks already.

Hoe are others handling this?
Silk McCue
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Silk McCue »

This sounds mostly like a rant. It is clear that what you need to do is adjust your withholding if you aren’t able to opt out or until you opt out.

No one ever claimed the actions of the Federal Government or IRS was logical.

Cheers
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by RickBoglehead »

It's a tax CREDIT. It's not INCOME. It won't RAISE your taxes, it will LOWER your taxes. And it's a lot bigger than prior years.

:oops:

And, if you want to opt out after 2 or 3 payments, you're taxes, if they were affected, will be fine. Plenty of time to adjust.

"Please, please don't send me money..." :shock:
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28fe6
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by 28fe6 »

double post
Last edited by 28fe6 on Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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28fe6
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by 28fe6 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:51 am It's a tax CREDIT. It's not INCOME. It won't RAISE your taxes, it will LOWER your taxes. And it's a lot bigger than prior years.

:oops:
Of course, but I normally get the credit in my yearly taxes. If IRS sends me monthly payments, it's going to mean I will owe more taxes at the end of the year. My tax bill at the end of the year could be $6000 or more higher than before; this is a big difference. Of course I can just put the monthly payments into a savings account until the end of the year and use them to pay my taxes, but I was wondering how others are handling this.
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by jebmke »

Silk McCue wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:47 am This sounds mostly like a rant. It is clear that what you need to do is adjust your withholding if you aren’t able to opt out or until you opt out.

No one ever claimed the actions of the Federal Government or IRS was logical.

Cheers
I suspect this is one of those things where they had to make a decision as to how to get the most benefit, even if some people want to opt out and they didn't have the tools yet to do it. They probably assume that a majority of recipients would elect advance payments rather than wait to claim in 2022. As I recall, advanced EITC when it existed was opt-in rather than opt-out.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by RickBoglehead »

28fe6 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:53 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:51 am It's a tax CREDIT. It's not INCOME. It won't RAISE your taxes, it will LOWER your taxes. And it's a lot bigger than prior years.

:oops:
Of course, but I normally get the credit in my yearly taxes. If IRS sends me monthly payments, it's going to mean I will owe more taxes at the end of the year. My tax bill at the end of the year could be $6000 or more higher than before; this is a big difference. Of course I can just put the monthly payments into a savings account until the end of the year and use them to pay my taxes, but I was wondering how others are handling this.
My kids are long out of the house, but if I was eligible for these payments, I can't imagine not taking them. I pay the minimum I have to each year to not have any penalties when I file, and owe money. If they're going to send it to me ahead of time, I merely invest it and adjust my forecasted payment at tax time. But refuse free money (i.e. getting it 9 months early)? NEVER.
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Mako
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Mako »

28fe6 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:53 am Of course, but I normally get the credit in my yearly taxes. If IRS sends me monthly payments, it's going to mean I will owe more taxes at the end of the year. My tax bill at the end of the year could be $6000 or more higher than before; this is a big difference. Of course I can just put the monthly payments into a savings account until the end of the year and use them to pay my taxes, but I was wondering how others are handling this.
The credit is normally $2000 per kid. This year it is $3600 or $3000 depending on age. The monthly payment is $300 or $250, for 6 months, or $1800 or $1500. So you will get the monthly payment, and then you will still have $1800 or $1500 to claim when you file your taxes. Yes, slightly different than last year, but most of the monthly payment is of the new additional amount, so if you planned for $2000 your plans aren't that far off.

So opt out, whenever that's available, or change your withholding. Or just make an estimated payment of $200 (or $500) per kid to get you back to the normal IRS-owes-me-$2000 level. Seems like a mountain out of a molehill IMO.
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by jebmke »

28fe6 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am For those unchilded, the federal child tax credit is substantial.
I assume you mean "For those not familiar with the credit ...." I assume taxpayers without eligible children would not get a "substantial" credit.
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Katietsu
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Katietsu »

As Mako stated while I was typing, you will probably not need to change your withholding or have a large tax bill.

Assume that the 2021 amount that you calculated for withholding on January 1 will be your 2021 withholding. Now assume that you have 3 kids ages 4, 8 and 10. The new child tax credit for 2021 for these kids respectively will be $3600,$3000 and $3000. So, the total additional credit over the $2000 per child number is $3600. This would be additional refund to you if you had otherwise calculated your withholding to exactly meet your liability. Now, your advance payments for these three hypothetical kids is $300, $250 and $250 a month, respectively, or $800 a month. So, to keep your refund close to zero, you will want to receive 4 months of payments before opting out. Even if you never opted out the “amount due” for these kids, ie the difference between the extra child tax credit and the advance payment is only $1200. Not peanuts, but not as much as you might have thought. The bigger issue could appear in 2022. But since nothing seems to stay the same for long these days that is off in the distant future right now.
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

Assuming you have three kids all between ages 6 and 17, and you are not in the phase-out, you will now get $9000 for the child tax credit. If you have kids younger than age 6, add $600 more for each kid under that age. So you will end up with somewhere between $9000 and $10,800 in child tax credits instead of $6000. The question is basically this: Would you like a bunch of extra money that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise and delivered to you asap? Most people would like this.

Also, I think you may be over-estimating the pain most people will feel at tax time. First, it only affects the second half of the year. Additionally, most people have fewer than 3 kids. Also, most people's tax liability isn't that much to begin with so it's not like they owe a ton of taxes. Now the credit is being given upfront and it's also refundable - something that will benefit a lot of lower to middle income families. All in all, I think most people will be celebrating getting money in the mail next month as estimates show child poverty rates going down considerably as a result of these new changes.
JayDee37
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by JayDee37 »

Two things that may reduce the anxiety of the OP:

1. In addition to increasing the credit amount for 2021 and instituting monthly payments, this year the credit is FULLY REFUNDABLE (rather than partially refundable). No one should have to repay any of the monies sent out via the monthly payments.

2. The monthly payments are being made only for 50% of the 2021 tax year (July-Dec). The tax credit amount due for Jan-June will be addressed as usual during tax filing season, and can presumably buffer any other unexpected consequences of the switch to monthly payments for the OP.

Generally speaking, the switch to monthly payments will benefit those who really need this credit the most, families with children for whom that extra couple of hundred dollars per month is the difference between putting enough food on the table, being able to take their child to the doctor, or put gas in the car. Economists estimate that the fully-refundable monthly credit will reduce child poverty in this country by 45-50%, which is awesome.
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gobel
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by gobel »

28fe6 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:53 am Of course, but I normally get the credit in my yearly taxes. If IRS sends me monthly payments, it's going to mean I will owe more taxes at the end of the year. My tax bill at the end of the year could be $6000 or more higher than before; this is a big difference. Of course I can just put the monthly payments into a savings account until the end of the year and use them to pay my taxes, but I was wondering how others are handling this.
If you qualify for the extra boost (phaseout starts at 150k mfj), then the difference between what you budgeted as your credit and what you end up have remaining (50% of total) won't be far off: boost is to between $9000 and 10800, so leftover after advance will be $4500 to $5400 - compared to your budged $6000 credit.

If you don't qualify, you would be $3000 off, not $6000 at the end of the year, since only 50% is advanced.

Finally, imo, you will be able to opt out in July, so maybe the worst case is 1 advanced payment deposit to deal with.
Wolfpack2463
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Wolfpack2463 »

The previous tax credit was $2000 per child up to $400k Income for MFJ. This new credit is larger ($3000 for child age 6-17, $3600 for under 6), but the amount is reduced if your income is over $150k for MFJ. Depending on your income you may receive a lower credit than in years past. I believe I found a calculator online and we will only receive $1000 credit vs. $4000 in previous years.

**feel free to correct me if I’m incorrect.**
armeliusc
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by armeliusc »

As others have mentioned, only part of the credit is advanced, and the credit is increased this year. So you should not be too far off even if you maintain the same withholding.

But I do want to opt out as well. My primary motivation is to just minimize / remove extra "movement" (IRS sending me money). I can get the same effect just by adjusting my withholding to take into account the increased child tax credit. It goes automatically to my direct deposit. To me the main issue / question is how will IRS send me the money? First stimulus check it was direct deposited. The rest stimulus payments somehow was by check in the mail. If IRS is sending checks for the advanced child tax credit, it's just another hassle for me (not to mention the risk of it's missing, me accidentally throwing it away with other junk mails, etc ... ).
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

Wolfpack2463 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:32 am The previous tax credit was $2000 per child up to $400k Income for MFJ. This new credit is larger ($3000 for child age 6-17, $3600 for under 6), but the amount is reduced if your income is over $150k for MFJ. Depending on your income you may receive a lower credit than in years past. I believe I found a calculator online and we will only receive $1000 credit vs. $4000 in previous years.

**feel free to correct me if I’m incorrect.**
I don’t believe that you will receive a lower credit than in the past couple of years. You just won’t qualify for the increased child tax credit amount (between $1000 and $1600 per child, depending on age) that is available to those with income below $150k for MFJ.

Try this calculator: https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/602334/ ... calculator
runner3081
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by runner3081 »

28fe6 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am Hoe are others handling this?
Taking $50 and putting in UTMA and $200 into 529.

That is how we are handling. Nothing else.

Tax impact, if any, is minimal and not something that we are worrying about. Will just rectify at tax time.
Wolfpack2463
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Wolfpack2463 »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:53 am
Wolfpack2463 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:32 am The previous tax credit was $2000 per child up to $400k Income for MFJ. This new credit is larger ($3000 for child age 6-17, $3600 for under 6), but the amount is reduced if your income is over $150k for MFJ. Depending on your income you may receive a lower credit than in years past. I believe I found a calculator online and we will only receive $1000 credit vs. $4000 in previous years.

**feel free to correct me if I’m incorrect.**
I don’t believe that you will receive a lower credit than in the past couple of years. You just won’t qualify for the increased child tax credit amount (between $1000 and $1600 per child, depending on age) that is available to those with income below $150k for MFJ.

Try this calculator: https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/602334/ ... calculator

Thanks for the clarification and the link, Ron!

After playing with the calculator, once your AGI is over ~$214k for MFJ then you will receive the normal $2000 per child credit.
Triple digit golfer
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Triple digit golfer »

I would handle it by either adjusting my withholding or enjoying the interest-free loan from the government.

Those seem to be the only two options.
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teen persuasion
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by teen persuasion »

28fe6 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:08 am Hoe are others handling this?
We are not changing anything. We already had our withholding as close to zero as we can.

Receiving part of the refundable credit before next year is a bonus. And since the credit is both larger and fully refundable now, we will STILL get a refund next year (tiny bit larger than the former $1400 refundable portion). We do still have to wait for the EITC refunds, too (state and federal).

OP, only people who would normally see the tax credit get applied to taxes owed, AND proactively adjust their withholdings to compensate, will feel your issue.
MM1130
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by MM1130 »

You get half as monthly payments and half at tax time— If you don’t want that, then opt out. I’m sure it will be all over the news when the link goes live.
If you qualify for the full amount, it would be a difference of $500 per child older than 6 and $200 per child younger than 6 ($3000/2 = 1500 at tax time and 1500 spaced over 6 months; $3600/2 = 1800 at tax time and 1800 spaced over 6 months. So that means max of $1500 difference for you.
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teen persuasion
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by teen persuasion »

Local news report on the payments, and an opt out date/link: https://www.wivb.com/news/child-tax-cre ... ssion=true
Buford T Justice
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Buford T Justice »

another alternative for the OP (besides adjusting withholding): Make estimated tax payments to the IRS for the amount of the advanced credit received monthly.
hnd
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by hnd »

i can't imagine not wanting my money back from the gvt sooner. we have 5 children (2 are foster children going through the adoption process) and tax time has been interesting considering i refused to change withholding information prior to final adoption)

past 2 years we've taken the 10k deduction obviously. 10K . new plan is 16.2K for us. we receive half in montly payments leaving 8.1k to be deducted from 2021 taxes. sure that 1900 difference might result in paying in but you got your money back sooner. thats a win to me.

I mean I get it. it always feels like there is a catch somewhere.
AnEngineer
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by AnEngineer »

To me, the critical question is whether or not this affects under-withholding penalties. Is the penalty assessed ignoring this pre-payment?
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by AnEngineer »

JayDee37 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:29 am 1. In addition to increasing the credit amount for 2021 and instituting monthly payments, this year the credit is FULLY REFUNDABLE (rather than partially refundable). No one should have to repay any of the monies sent out via the monthly payments.
I don't see where you get the second sentence, or how it's related to the first. If my 2020 income makes me eligible, but my 2021 income is past the phase-out, I'm going to have to pay back the monthly payments. Whether the payments are refundable has no bearing on this.
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by jharkin »

Ron Ronnerson wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 am
Also, I think you may be over-estimating the pain most people will feel at tax time. First, it only affects the second half of the year. Additionally, most people have fewer than 3 kids. Also, most people's tax liability isn't that much to begin with so it's not like they owe a ton of taxes. Now the credit is being given upfront and it's also refundable - something that will benefit a lot of lower to middle income families. All in all, I think most people will be celebrating getting money in the mail next month as estimates show child poverty rates going down considerably as a result of these new changes.

Yes, we are all WAY overthinking this.

#1 - The extra credit is mostly targeted to low income families, and the monthly payment idea is to address the fact that for the lowest income segment that already pays net zero tax, the only way to actually get cash from the credit was via the refundable portion in April when they submit their 1040.

Since the OP is not in that lowest bracket and has withholding adjusted for the credit, there should not be any net change to their monthly cashflow.


#2 - Lets look at withholding in more detail. The new format of the W-4 that was introduced with the TCJA no longer requires you to estimate your allowance to account for credits, the form just directly asks you "how many kids do you have" and then the formula your employer uses multiplies that time 2k and reduces your withholding accordingly.

I don't work for the IRS but I have to imagine they have updated the withholding formulas issued to employers to account for these monthly payments and I strongly suspect your paycheck will automatically adjust to zero it out.
Beachey
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by Beachey »

I shared the OP original worry, one other thing to consider for many with kids is the childcare deduction for 2021 was substantially increased. Up to $16,000 with two kids from a max of $6000. While I generally try to adjust my withholding aiming for a refund/owing $0, I think I may end up with a large refund because of the childcare deduction. When I went to the online W-4, it does not seem to account for the changes. I debated opting out but I think I will just let them send me the payment and if I owe it back so be it. I do think there will be a subset of people who owe due to the payments and I wonder how much of a stink we will hear about this next April.
AnEngineer
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by AnEngineer »

I got a letter pointing me here: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/ ... ts-in-2021, though there isn't much info there right now.
The IRS will provide more information about advance payments soon.
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by gclancer »

AnEngineer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:52 am To me, the critical question is whether or not this affects under-withholding penalties. Is the penalty assessed ignoring this pre-payment?
Depending on your income level you just need to have 100% or 110% (look it up) of your prior year tax owed withheld (or remitted as estimated tax payments) to avoid penalties or interest. I don’t care if I owe money at tax time just that I don’t owe penalties or interest.
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anon_investor
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by anon_investor »

gclancer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:01 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:52 am To me, the critical question is whether or not this affects under-withholding penalties. Is the penalty assessed ignoring this pre-payment?
Depending on your income level you just need to have 100% or 110% (look it up) of your prior year tax owed withheld (or remitted as estimated tax payments) to avoid penalties or interest. I don’t care if I owe money at tax time just that I don’t owe penalties or interest.
+1. I adjusted my withholding this year to be right above the 110% mark. I will probably owe money at tax time, but no penalty.
AnEngineer
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by AnEngineer »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:06 pm
gclancer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:01 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:52 am To me, the critical question is whether or not this affects under-withholding penalties. Is the penalty assessed ignoring this pre-payment?
Depending on your income level you just need to have 100% or 110% (look it up) of your prior year tax owed withheld (or remitted as estimated tax payments) to avoid penalties or interest. I don’t care if I owe money at tax time just that I don’t owe penalties or interest.
+1. I adjusted my withholding this year to be right above the 110% mark. I will probably owe money at tax time, but no penalty.
Right, this is the safe thing to do to avoid penalties.

What I was wondering about are people who will owe less tax than last year and wouldn't have to pay anything in, except for the fact that the child tax credit was advanced to them, will they have to pay a penalty? This is a narrower category, but I expect some people to get surprised by it.
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Re: Child tax credit changes -- monthly refund

Post by anon_investor »

AnEngineer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:23 pm
anon_investor wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:06 pm
gclancer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:01 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:52 am To me, the critical question is whether or not this affects under-withholding penalties. Is the penalty assessed ignoring this pre-payment?
Depending on your income level you just need to have 100% or 110% (look it up) of your prior year tax owed withheld (or remitted as estimated tax payments) to avoid penalties or interest. I don’t care if I owe money at tax time just that I don’t owe penalties or interest.
+1. I adjusted my withholding this year to be right above the 110% mark. I will probably owe money at tax time, but no penalty.
Right, this is the safe thing to do to avoid penalties.

What I was wondering about are people who will owe less tax than last year and wouldn't have to pay anything in, except for the fact that the child tax credit was advanced to them, will they have to pay a penalty? This is a narrower category, but I expect some people to get surprised by it.
The withholding safe harbor also includes withholding 90% of your actual tax liability. So maybe some people are covered. Or maybe the IRS will decide to not enforce penalties or change the rules a little like they did for tax year 2018, when a lot of people underwitheld after the tax law changes at the end of 2017. But for people who are posting here, they obviously are aware of the potential issues, and hopefully will act accordingly.
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